AEC's Craziest Acquisition Ever? Landing Page 101, UK Construction Doomed, Robotics to win 2026

When Facebook bought Instagram, there was eight people in zero in revenue for a billion dollars. There's people who were outraged. They're like, "How can

were outraged. They're like, "How can you pay that much per head or how can you pay that much for zero in revenue?"

And now it's probably the greatest acquisition ever. You know, there's

acquisition ever. You know, there's that's one thing that's really hard about being a founder is you often get to read about outliers that get to raise huge amounts of capital with low

revenues or get acquired low low revenues and you're always like, well, why do they get to have that happen? A

counterargument I heard to this is is that because of like the politics within um and middle management and the protest that would have happened if they were trying to build something internally,

they felt like they had to buy it to bring the resource externally because they would never get buy in to to actually to to build this internally. At

the beginning of the day, we spoke to these people and we're like, "What's your confidence in AI agents?" So most few people like uh two out of 10, one out of 10, three out of 10 and they're like deflated in how they're speaking

cuz they're a little bit anxious like the day hadn't started. And by the end of it, these people were like like different, totally different. And their

confidence levels mostly gone from like a one for a two to like a seven or seven or an eight.

[music] Bricks Bucks [music] and Bites.

>> What's up, guys? Welcome back to Bricks, Bucks, and Bites. [music] By the way, when you're doing that live in person, I was having this chat today. When you're

doing that live in person, two camera, like recently, we have just done two live streams, one in Boston and one in London. And when you're doing that two

London. And when you're doing that two camera and you have like one take to get that what's up everyone welcome to bricks and bucks we're bricks and bites we're live here in thingy it's so so

intimidating you're like uh the pressure is really on and my my um ritual is to like go for a walk or think about it on the train and just recite what I'm going to say in my head over and over and over

and over again. And then when you're in the moment, you enter this like focus zone where you just you just do it and like then all your fears are gone. So

there you go.

>> Well, you did it only twice and I think the second time was way way better than the first one. So there's a there's a progress.

>> Yeah, >> that setup you you all had in Boston that was looked like a movie studio in a conference room.

>> That was epic, man.

>> That was really nice. Patrick said we should call it Bricks and Bites TV.

>> Like, yeah, this that stuff is really really great and fun to do. Um, we're

trying to work out how to make it more of a consistent thing, but there is a lot of logistics that go into something like that. And yeah, I think you'll

like that. And yeah, I think you'll definitely see more of it next year, 2026. We would we'll try and be at every

2026. We would we'll try and be at every event doing it. Um, but yeah, it was it was super fun. And Dustin, I think you had a good time, too. Dude, you still have the hat.

>> I still have I still have my uh shirt.

It's actually upstairs on my um ironing board for some reason. [laughter]

>> You're doing danking or not? Today

>> I am drinking uh my Pete's coffee. Thank

you very much.

>> Hey, >> so the poss one >> that's what uh David said, right? Was

the West Coast edify the West Coast um um specialtity in the US. Pizza coffee.

Pete's is where I take a lot of phone calls. I do a lot of work at Pete's.

calls. I do a lot of work at Pete's.

>> Is that where you raise that check of money for building connected?

>> No, no, that was at uh Phil's Coffee in Palo Alto. [laughter]

Palo Alto. [laughter] >> What's with all the names?

>> That's another That's another gem.

>> Hey, in the in the UK and Europe, you have like Costa, Cafe, Nero, all these like fancy names. in America.

>> America's like, "Pete, I'm Phil."

>> So, we used to have one and it closed during CO and it was called Crossroads Cafe in Soma. And this place was awesome. It's was my favorite coffee

awesome. It's was my favorite coffee shop ever. Uh I in fact, I moved just to

shop ever. Uh I in fact, I moved just to be kind of closer to it at one point.

I'm not joking. I love that coffee shop.

I love their food, the ambiance, the vibe. But it was also a charity. So it

vibe. But it was also a charity. So it

was called Crossroads because all the people that worked there were like exconconvicts and it was like to give them employment as they get back into society. So it was it was pretty cool.

society. So it was it was pretty cool.

>> That's interesting mixture.

>> Yeah.

>> Why do you like this ambiencece?

>> I I don't know. I I mean [laughter] so actually building series B was actually first really struck there because I would meet with um what ended up be our

our eventual investor knuckle who is now the founder of Audacious Ventures and we would meet there quite regularly and then as soon as we started hitting inflection points he's like let's do a

deal.

>> Huh nice. Yeah. talking about moving moving um to a certain to live in a certain place due to proximity of things that you like. I think that this is like

a really high up on the things to think about when you are buying a house like a lot of people maybe optimized for other

things but it's very important um because just from personal experience when I was buying my house I'm not currently living there cuz I'm having some construction work done which has been going on for a while but hopefully

we'll be back at the end of January but when I bought that house there were a few contenders and there is this pub that I love like near nearish to where

that place was. And this house that I bought was like a 17minute walk from that pub and I checked it out. Google

Maps of course and how far it was. And

I'm so glad I moved that close. Like I

really app I really in hindsight love the fact that I moved there because it's like a 20inut nice walk through a park and you're in a place where like I don't go that regularly but like it's just a nice place to be. There's a good

ambiance there. They do great beer. It's

ambiance there. They do great beer. It's

like a bit of a mecca for me just to switch off and have some downtime. So I

think yeah, advice to people when you're buying a house, consider what's close by, >> not just trains and transport and stuff.

>> And mine, why did you pick a house near Buckingham Palace? [laughter]

Buckingham Palace? [laughter] >> They're very convenient. Troop 6 minutes walks 10 minutes walk. Um, hide park 12

minutes walk. Yeah. Center close to good

minutes walk. Yeah. Center close to good projects.

>> Which of your five houses are we talking about?

>> Oh, I I don't I I don't own the house in this country. No,

this country. No, >> dude. I thought you were going to say

>> dude. I thought you were going to say because you one day you'll be in the palace.

>> Uh, no, no, no. That's not me. Not

royalty here.

>> Okay. Look, uh, last time we started a podcast talking about something off topic, someone left a um, I don't know the right word. this hateful but uh

frustrated kind of co toned comment on the on the um on the YouTube channel. So

maybe we should jump straight into the juice. What do you think?

juice. What do you think?

>> Sure.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay. Well, I need to be a little bit careful here because I put out so Okay.

Last week, maybe middle of last week, there was this big announcement that AOM have um purchased Conigi. So, Acom being

a engineering consultancy business and Consley being a software startup. And as a result of that, my

startup. And as a result of that, my LinkedIn feed got absolutely saturated with everyone giving their opinion on the deal. And so I put out a bit of a

the deal. And so I put out a bit of a satirical post saying um my thoughts on the ACOM unconsign deal and I purposely done it so there was a hook and a little

bit of space so people couldn't see without clicking read more. So it built a bit of tension and then underneath I put that has developed a bunch of thought leaders and this post got ton of

attention um on on my LinkedIn profile.

So with that I don't feel like I should say too much because now I am being a complete hypocrite. Mhm.

complete hypocrite. Mhm.

>> Um, >> therefore, >> so what do you think? [laughter]

>> I did I did tease some thoughts on that, but I'll be interested in your guys' thoughts before before I go there. Um, I

think we have been asked and dying for Dustin your your your thoughts on such a deal having been through a similar I don't know if similar but uh an acquisition before in your your career.

So do you think one that the value of the deal i.e. the 3 and I think it's 390 million that was announced publicly. Do

you think >> I don't know if you know but this is a question we were asked. Do you think that this is a correct figure? Like this

is actually the right figure.

>> H >> depends who you ask I guess.

>> I think it thinks there's a variety of ways you can measure it. I remember when usually when a deal gets announced there's always someone who says that it's an awful deal and only time will

ever tell. When when Facebook bought

ever tell. When when Facebook bought Instagram, there was eight people in zero in revenue for a billion dollars.

There's people who were outraged.

They're like, "How can you pay that much per head?" Or, "How can you pay that

per head?" Or, "How can you pay that much for zero in revenue?" And now it's probably the greatest acquisition ever because Instagram alone would be a trillion dollar company. That thing is more valuable than all the other assets

of Facebook combined. Now, is it going to be the next Instagram? No, it's not.

[laughter] I can definitively say it's not the next Instagram. Um but you know only time will tell maybe AECOM has some unique insights on the team the

technology and felt like in their ecosystem they could make them thrive thrive and that's really the only way you can justify it.

>> Um now some of their revenues are public and in 2023 I believe it was what 1.8

>> but then in 2024 I the rumor was it didn't grow. I have heard similar

didn't grow. I have heard similar things. Yes.

things. Yes.

>> Okay. Let's just say if that's true, then it would make me inclined to believe that they dramatically overpaid because it would be hard for them to

raise capital at a valuation. If you

have declining revenues, it's really hard to justify any sort of valuation. Like if you if you went from

valuation. Like if you if you went from 1.8, let's just say they went from 1.8, it kept revenues the same to 1.8 the next year, that company is worth like sub 20 million. like you might not be

able to get 15 million from a private equity firm because your revenue is not growing. Maybe there's some

growing. Maybe there's some reaceleration and they've added some AI tools that seem super differentiations

but usually um big players wait till you have more proof points. Um, so you know, AECOM is a customer of Edify, but I

don't really understand how their whole organization works because there's many assets to AECOM.

Um, >> I do think it's very hard for non technological companies to properly assess the value of technology and

integrate it into a consulting business, which at the end of the day, AACOM's a consulting business. the majority of

consulting business. the majority of their revenues are are actually like sort of correlated to their employee headcount. Like, hey, how much am I

headcount. Like, hey, how much am I invoicing you for?

>> Well, you don't sometimes efficiencies gains are not necessarily the best for their bottom line.

>> Yeah. No, agreed.

>> Yeah. And I think that's reading reading some of the articles that was part of the reason why they felt like they had to acquire >> Yes. that

>> Yes. that >> Yeah. Even so, if you're saying 2

>> Yeah. Even so, if you're saying 2 million uh revenue roughly 1.8 390 million acquisition, >> they're 2 million and 0% growth year-over-year and they were publicly traded company, they trade at 3x

revenue.

>> Ah, so this is 180x. Yeah,

>> 195 sucks. 195.

sucks. 195.

>> It doesn't matter. Doesn't matter at this point.

>> It does for my ego.

>> I would say if I was the founder of that company, I would be very ecstatic that the deal closed.

>> Yes, >> I would love to speak to her actually.

sold for more than building connected and our numbers were substantially better.

>> Yeah, I guess like just >> what were your numbers?

>> Put putting like empathy into some of the people that are building startups that have better return like better numbers than that and are not experiencing that that kind of level of

um outcome. It must be a little bit

um outcome. It must be a little bit disheartening could be would be my view.

You know, there's that's one thing that's really hard about being a founder is you often get to read about outliers that get to raise huge amounts of

capital with low revenues or get acquired low low revenues and you're always like, well, why do they get to have that happen? And there are usually more extenduating circumstances

associated with those deals for why they materialized. And uh yeah,

materialized. And uh yeah, >> must been the one. Yeah, you should not benchmark yourself on those. There is a normal distribution and you know unfortunately most people fall within,

you know, a standard deviation or two.

You can't compare yourself to the, you know, the five sigma outliers.

>> Martin, what do you think?

>> Well, I also think that this is a great deal for the founders on the icon side.

We we've we have no clue what was the driver for the decision. Um, and until we know, um, it's a mystery. But, uh,

the way I would think about it, if something costed 400 million, almost 390 million, the question is, can if I had

390 million in cash, could I recreate this uh, thing with this resource? And

seems like you could. [laughter]

>> Yeah. But

>> do you know a counter argument? feels

like it's very expensive.

>> A counterargument I heard to this is is that because of like the politics within um and middle management and the protest that would have happened if they were trying to build something internally,

they felt like they had to buy it to to bring the resource externally because they would never get buy in to to actually to to build this internally.

>> So you're saying that uh the company is mismanaged? Well, I I don't Well, I'm

mismanaged? Well, I I don't Well, I'm not saying this. This is something that someone said to me. I don't know, but it it does it wouldn't surprise me honestly

if that was the case with >> I mean people have to make it happen.

>> People one people have to make it happen, right? And that that would be

happen, right? And that that would be the middle management. And if they feel like their job is at threat because there's an AI that's suddenly reducing the value of their output and how much they can charge their um charge their um

clients then why would they do it? Why

would they develop this thing?

>> I don't know. I think it's a as a publicly traded company there is a there's a CEO there are shareholders and you need to do everything to maximize

shareholders benefits right or value. So

this deal according to that should have present the case for shareholder value.

Yeah.

>> Yeah. Uh Martin on that sometimes, and this is going to sound very contrarian, but sometimes this protects the shareholder value more because when

you're a publicly traded company, if they were to start investing in R&D, they're from a cash flow IBIDA perspective, they're going to look like

they're less profitable >> versus they do a one-time capex purchase of an asset.

>> That's a great point.

>> And just so how the public investors treat it.

And I can talk a little bit about time at Autodesk. That was true even when I

at Autodesk. That was true even when I was at Autodesk. They have more capacity. Like when they go buy a

capacity. Like when they go buy a billion dollar company, they could have never overlaid an extra billion dollars in R&D

>> because then their gross margins on on their business look significantly worse.

But they can go borrow a billion dollars or do it out of cash flow. And Wall

Street treats it like it's totally different.

>> In reality, it's not totally different.

You're still spending the money, but that's the the way the world works.

>> That's how it is. Yeah, that's

interesting. I didn't know that. I

didn't think about that this way. Yes.

>> Yeah. So,

>> sometimes it can be like actually in the shareholders interest. At least you're

shareholders interest. At least you're getting something and the share price isn't whacked.

H do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do uh either of you are either of you aware of a

similar deal in the past in the industry in construction a technology where a consultant i.e. Not a software company

consultant i.e. Not a software company has made such a large acquisition of a software company.

>> CBRE has bought a few I think >> I have not >> there could be one for for the community to answer. I don't don't have the data.

to answer. I don't don't have the data.

>> They bought Yeah, they bought a few companies. They bought Industrious. They

companies. They bought Industrious. They

bought a few companies.

>> Mhm.

Yeah. So, it does exist. I wonder if the I was going to my question was going to be to that would this be a trend that um will this this will this open you know people like to follow what others are

doing so will this open a >> I mean healthy healthy bot fieldwire you don't think of them as a tech company you think of them as heavy machinery >> tools [laughter] tools not even heavy

machine tools >> but I I wouldn't say that this will bring this will suddenly bring like a ton of similar uh acquisition itions

think feels like it's might be one of um a blend of perhaps very good product which fit very well within the business model uh of icon and that's what

happened.

>> Yeah. I I mean more of a fact mind that people tend to follow that like their competitors are doing it and suddenly someone's like oh we must do it too doing it.

>> Yeah.

>> FOMO one of >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. What does what does >> but Patrick will find more uh more crazy valuations uh uh asking prices from founders million

>> by the way also around about the time of this acquisition there was an article that came out in investing.com that said B had downgraded ACOM and Jacobs to neutral saying AI will reshape the engineering and consulting industry but

the timing and scale of his revenue impact remain unclear leaving valuations hard to justify after years of rerating.

Yes. So this is actually something I was thinking about that uh being ACOM and betting on a on a company that uh consequly in this case will is this kind

of holy grail for the future of engineering within the space and no one can replicate that uh at cheaper price. Let's say I think

it's kind of would be delusional to think about it this way. H

>> I think it's going to be very difficult for a within a to let's let's say that consigly is the best at what they do

today. I think it's going to be very

today. I think it's going to be very very challenging for AECOM to remain the best at whatever Conigi is the best at >> long because within that organization

it's going to be AECOM is not equipped to outlay the amount of capital to retain and hire the next generation of people to work on that product and

continue down a product journey. And so

I that's that's where I'm like Martin. I

don't I don't think within that organization a product like that is likely to continue whatever trajectory they're on that is that got a ecom so excited.

>> Yeah. Actually, it's also interesting. I

don't know how it works but from employees point of view I guess everyone has some shares in the business right >> at this stage at this early stage. So

now after this this exit, people kind of come come out with a nice pool of cash and >> um what would you do? Would you stay in a large behemoth company or would you

try to go out and do something uh venture out and do a nice uh startup or perhaps Yeah. having like so much

perhaps Yeah. having like so much insights in the space so far and having a safety cushion.

>> I'm I'm assuming >> speculation only. Yeah, I'm assuming AOM also had a a decent M&A team or uh some lawyers and bankers that know what they're doing. So, you don't typically

they're doing. So, you don't typically pay even if it's all cash transaction, you don't typically pay out all the cash at day one. There's a retention held in

to uh to retain talent. And then there's also like uh certain employee agreements for key hires to retain them.

>> Like what for a year? You can't you can't keep people for five years. No.

Mine was three.

>> Oh, yours was three.

>> You spent three years there.

>> I stayed for two.

>> It left on the table.

>> Yeah. The the the so-called metaphorical golden handcuffs. Yeah.

golden handcuffs. Yeah.

>> Um talking about these these high higher valuations. Um I wanted to I I had this

valuations. Um I wanted to I I had this one save for later, but we should go into it now because um you brought this up Dustin earlier. Um and this is about are you even of you familiar with this

term king making strategy okay this is the article right so VCs deploy kingmaking strategy to crown AI winners in their infancy I'll read the article out so you get the gist because this it

gives you the context behind it right so in early octo this is by from techrunch by the way so in early October dual entry an AI enterprise resource ERP planning startup announced a $90 million

series A round led by light speeded and cost ventures valuing the one-year old business at $415 million. Uh, one VC who declined to invest told TechCrunch that

Dual Entry's annual recurring revenue ARR was around $400,000 when he reviewed the deal in August. So, actually they

have like four four times less than what uh Conigley did and were bought at a slightly higher value or or valued at a slightly higher valuation. Anyway, dual

entries co-ounder.

>> What space is it? This is AI enterprise resource planning AIE ERP. Um, Dual

Entry's co-founder Santiago Insteras denies the number. When asked about revenue when the deal closed, he said it's considerably higher than that.

Okay, whatever. Uh, even so, in an extreme an extremely handsome valuation relative to revenue is becoming an increasingly common investment strategy among top tier VC firms. The tactic is

known as kingmaking. This approach

involves deploying massive funding into one startup in a competitive category, aiming to overwhelm rivals by granting the chosen company a bank account advantage so significant as it creates

the appearance of market dominance.

>> Apparently, it's not new, but timing has shifted dramatically.

>> I've heard about something like that.

>> No, no. I'm just trying to figure out what which uh which industry that was in.

Oh. Um,

uh, Uber, Bolts, and those, I think. And

also last delivery.

>> Oh, uh, K. Wow. Yeah, the purple one.

>> Last my delivery.

>> Orange one.

>> I can't remember what it was.

>> Yeah. So, I think there was a case that there was this um um fund from Asia.

What's this called? What is this? The

largest like a fund called Soft Bank.

>> Soft Bank. I think that they um they were funding one of this um bold not Uber I think but Bolt I think they were they were funding and they were

completely not profitable but the amount of funding they were putting out there was to undercut everyone around every other startup who was competing in this

in the space in the particular geography. So yeah, very similar

geography. So yeah, very similar behavior actually. M

behavior actually. M >> it's certainly not it's a strategy and in some ways it makes sense if you're looking at a company that's in the same

space and you know that someone else had just invested 90 million then there is going to be fear on in the mind of the

investor well if I put in 50 are they even resource allocated to combat 90 million um I mean there's a whole bunch of it's

a strategy is all I'll say. Whether or

not it's a great strategy is >> it's like it's like playing lottery at that at that point though. I think like >> it's called venture investing for a reason.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> Sometimes VCs forget that there's the word venture in front of their uh capital.

>> It's most like the deal most likely to happen in a sauna, right?

Hey, I'd rather see venture investors do like this than some of their lame tactics that some of them do. So,

>> I'm all about >> What What are amongst the lame tactics you >> Oh, what are >> the worst thing is when a founder is like, I'm really looking for 30 million

valuation and the VC comes in at 29.

You're like, man, I pulled you in. Like,

what are we doing? And then you're like nickel and dimming over this thing and you're like, "God dang it, I really wanted 20 or I really wanted this 30.

Like this was important to me." And then the VC is like, "Ah, my metrics say 20 28 and a half." Like

>> so dumb. It's just so dumb. [laughter]

>> Happens all the time.

>> I was very surprised this year. I

remember at least two or three times that I saw on LinkedIn, there was there were people who were um searching for startups to invest because they had to

invest particular pool of money by this time whatever whatever the timing was.

>> I found it like super dumb. You have to spend some money regardless of what company of quality companies, right? So

that's completely doesn't make sense. If

you have to spend money, invest into something.

>> Were they saying they had to pull it in for tax purposes? Cuz you could have got >> I I don't know if there was tax purpose, but we have to invest um $10 million to

whatever Q whatever.

>> Yeah, I heard similar. I don't know what the exact like explanation behind it was, but I know what Martin is saying.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Just just because of your your time bound or something. So like you haven't found a good company and suddenly you realize you got to deploy like 10 million and then the next day

what it's just too like ah punk is with some of the the spaxs is they'd open these spacks and I think they had two years to uh take a company public and so some of them were just like well we make

money no matter what so take public.

>> One of Martin's idols got earned their wealth through >> that's right the the king of spaxs.

[laughter] practice back me.

>> Yeah, we >> M gets very defensive when you mention this topic.

>> I don't get defensive. I don't care. I

don't know the man. [laughter] I don't know the man. I just I I appreciate other um good features of a character and I wasn't aware of the bad ones.

[laughter] And actually, I'm very selective in the way I look at people. So, if I just if I like something in someone, then I I will admire them for what they are. and the

bad stuff I just kind of disregard and um I don't care. So

>> I think that's very fair. There is

>> qualities in individuals that you can admire while not saying that the whole person is perfect. And I think a lot of people, >> of course. Yeah.

>> Well, that could be that could be >> I mean like you could look at some of the most crazy figures in history and be like, "Yeah, he killed like 50 million people, but you know, he was like kind of

good-looking."

good-looking." >> I don't think that's what they say about him.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, say I mean, yeah. All right. Whatever. And

there's always a reason for a famous successful person that they are famous and successful. Yeah. So they must have

and successful. Yeah. So they must have been quite good in something that the majority of people around them let them be where they are >> in most cases. Yes.

>> In most cases. Yeah.

>> Of course not. Of course not.

>> God.

>> Right. What else have we got?

>> That I won't.

>> Yeah. Let's let's quickly curb that one.

Let's go to something a bit more posit not positive but a little bit more hot.

So I saw this um and this is what it says. The S&P global UK construction

says. The S&P global UK construction PMI. What does PMI mean?

PMI. What does PMI mean?

>> Manufacturing index something >> something market index >> production max production manufacturing index something.

>> I don't know but anyway whatever it means it says uh it it's gone it fell to 39.4 for in November 2025 from 44.1

in October. And regardless of what that

in October. And regardless of what that term means, the point is it's the steepest downturn in UK construction output for 5 and a half years amid challenging market conditions. New

orders also decreased to the greatest extent since May 2020. Many construction

companies commented on weak client confidence alongside delayed spending decisions linked to uncertainty ahead of the budget. Housing activity, commercial

the budget. Housing activity, commercial construction, and civil engineering all experienced the fastest downturns in activities for 5 and a half years.

Fragile market confidence, delays with the release of new projects, and a general lack of incoming new work. And

employment also declined at the steepest rate since August 2020. Business

optimism is the weakest since December 2022.

Happy days for the UK market.

>> Welcome in UK recession.

>> H I mean >> so it is purch purchasing managers index.

>> Yeah.

>> PMI.

>> Yeah. Anyway like the the term is what it is but the the point is the um the it doesn't look great. And also I know that based on discussions I have with people who have businesses in the construction

industry, they all seem not all but a lot are going through a bit of a um different or challenging time.

>> That's fair.

>> How's it in the US Dustin? Do you are you see are you feeling or seeing or experiencing or hearing of similar vibe?

So I'm hearing a lot of it it there's different so different segments are in different booms and bust

cycles. Um in general like if you're a

cycles. Um in general like if you're a product manager or a a product manager or a product designer it's kind of hard

to find employment. There's a lot of uh there's a lot of people on the sidelines. But if you're in construction

sidelines. But if you're in construction generally like there's a lot of work going on and it's because we just still have so much data center business that sucks up so much talent that you know

even though maybe the typical projects aren't as abundant there's just less resources to work on them. Um, I don't

feel like this is in for Main Street.

This is going to be like an incredible downturn cuz we're going to start getting into some quantitative easing cycles

>> where um both interest rates and um uh quantitative tightening's ending or just ended. So, all of those are like

just ended. So, all of those are like we're getting into a a Fed more They're not hawkish anymore. So, I think

that I think that we're pretty good here.

>> I think I read >> I think I want to hear it. Think things

will things will will have to turn. Uh

it might not be, you know, next quarter or two in two next quarters, but the infrastructure is very very old all around in the UK. So, there must be some

sort of infrastructure spending. And as

we were speaking earlier today as well, there's a lot of like a data centers uh construction happening in the north uh of England. So your people that you

of England. So your people that you spoke with, if they are local, that's that's part of the reason why they might be uh complaining on that. Um

>> yeah I mean yeah who we spoke to earlier also said like they had experienced like u not struggle but um perhaps like a a poor constrained by the fact that uh

people seem to be moving out of London and doing these projects in the north of England which is >> which is uh the first time I'd heard that actually and never really thought about it before. So

>> um >> I mean London is like what what's the percentage of the UK uh economy?

>> A lot. So it's wise to spread it out slightly outside of the one just one city >> and there's been a lot of confidence like low confidence because of the current government and previous

governments and just the political state of the UK is not in the best place.

>> Brace yourself next four years are coming.

>> Yeah [snorts] is what it is.

>> Can we talk about a super positive news?

There is a big fun.

>> Oh, um, let me guess. Permit flow.

>> Mhm.

Yeah, we're actually going to have Francis on next week to discuss this with us.

So, we can dive into the detail with him, which but that's fantastic news.

It's a really interesting space because there was a very similar uh funding round earlier this year also with green light. I think the company also in a

light. I think the company also in a similar space and Francis is going to give us like an overview of the competitive landscape in that um in that area as well. So stay tuned.

>> Yeah, there's like there's other a few other players in the space as well.

>> Well, that's definitely a a heating up area of the industry. Mhm.

>> But did they pivot pivot slightly in pyramid flow? I think remember when we

pyramid flow? I think remember when we talking about permit flow for probably like year and a half with Patrick they were innovating within the planning

space to kind of provide this cookie cutter planning permits or to help to get the planning permits. Looking at

their website right now it seems like constructions AI workforce. They've

expanded to uh not just um permitting but other permit no sense not just planning permits but broader set of permits required in a

construction project. I don't know.

construction project. I don't know.

>> I don't know why don't we save it for Francis.

>> Yeah, same for Francis. But that's

terrific.

>> There's also other good news other good news for the industry. the company

Gravis Robotics raised 23 million I think was announced this week as well which is um good for the robotics space that's also another interesting area where the competition a lot of money is going in and the competition is

definitely hoting up in terms of autonomous heavy machinery um so we had earlier this year also Bedrock Robotics that was another one in between that as well and then obviously you have Gravis

as well so speaking to try and get them on here as well to see what the what the deal is Yeah. Um, lots of lots of stuff happening.

>> Yeah, great great end of the year.

>> Great end of the year. And on the robotics piece as well, I was very interested to hear uh about the boost cohort. So when we were speaking to

cohort. So when we were speaking to Parker who >> who heads up the platform, the boost platform at Suffuk Technologies >> and he was telling us that this year they had received 200ish applications

and >> this was like the first year they had noticed a strong uptick in robotics companies. So, um, the robotics space, I

companies. So, um, the robotics space, I know we're at the end of the year and it's kind of cliche to say 2026 will be like an interesting year for robotics, but I think it will. Um, uh, zooming in

on that a bit. And but also, uh, like I said to you earlier, Martin, when we were chatting about this, um, it it will still be interesting to see how we

actually have use cases of construction robotics on construction sites. I just I we have some way to go.

>> It makes sense though. Um I think people are realizing that dramatic efficiency gains in construction projects from a field perspective like software for

project management software is not going to get you there. And logistics

software, it's not going to it might in incrementally get you an efficiency gain of 1%. But if you can augment the

of 1%. But if you can augment the workforce which is in the US the workforce is like 50% of the construction project if not more. If you

can augment that you can have dramatic efficiency gains and so robotics is one way to so I understand why a substantial amount of money would go into this space but I'm kind of like you. I haven't seen

robotics that can actually do this on large projects and not run into issues like the dog getting stuck.

>> Yeah.

Yeah. I mean construction is such a fluid um space, right? So

space, right? So you would have to have everything kind of programmed up front what happens afterward and just have this autonomous

workflows happening uh so they cannot be like broken in anyway but I think it's still a long time for any

like a super major >> I think if zooming out sides >> what people are focusing on now is like the human uh robot um integration. What

do you call it?

>> Humanoid. Humanoid or

>> the human human and robot. Uh uh

collaboration. That's the word I'm looking for versus like full autonomy.

>> Human is moving the robot.

>> Uh like they're working together on a side like yeah maybe moving maybe like um doing a part of the robot's job for them and vice versa versus like just saying like robot you go and do your thing. They're working in tandem with

thing. They're working in tandem with each other, not just one one, not just one or the other.

>> I somehow can't see that actually. I

would say that more isolated um tasks would be done by robot rather than um combined human and robot just simply

due to safety. I think there's very little limited number of things you can do.

>> Mhm.

>> Together.

>> I don't know. How much thought do you guys put towards the your landing pages on your website?

>> Last time 5 years ago, >> Dustin, >> actually more and more every day.

>> Okay.

Yeah.

>> Why?

>> Let's see. Uh, a lot of our sales are to um larger customers and so generally it's about content marketing

and hopefully directing them to something on our website that helps that acutely addresses some sort of pain that

they've experienced.

Um, for example, we just added a new web page to our or a a new page to our website that is about um joint ventures.

>> So, joint ventures are are really really common in construction. And

unfortunately, >> if you're doing a joint venture, almost every single one of them >> has to use Excel to estimate because

even if even if a GC both purchase like the same tool, whether it's Beck or Winest or Sage to estimate and both GCs use it, it's actually a

different desktop tool. And so it's almost impossible to get another person or another company onboarded on your instance of those solutions. And so um

the acute problem we're trying to address is okay, you guys can both use Edify for your joint venture. And so

having something on our website, something that then marketing material that we're then feeding out to LinkedIn and um pushing out through email. Um so

that sort of flow is important. We're on

we have a very small marketing team in that we have one contract product marketer, one content marketer. So we

are very limited in one contract product or one content market designer or marketing designer. But um yeah, it's

marketing designer. But um yeah, it's it's really important if you're trying to build like a content marketing strategy that gets people to engage and says, "Hey, I I want to know more."

Um, so yeah, actually just was it yesterday or two days ago, we just pushed that out on the website talking about, listen, if you're going to do a joint venture, you guys should still have a precon platform. You shouldn't be doing Excel. So we're thinking about

doing Excel. So we're thinking about like, okay, what's our messaging? And

then, okay, when you engage with us, what's what's the checkout or check-in process but >> it's actually really important to grow a tech company.

>> Are you are you like trying to put the C that like how why did you decide Dustin?

I don't know like what your involvement was on that particular decision, but when you decide to put that in the header, like it's prominent when you landed on Edify's website. Yeah. Like it

has JVS in the in the menu on the header. Was is is the idea behind that

header. Was is is the idea behind that that you're putting the most prominent offer right there because the market was telling you like we want the solution for this or was it because like it's a new thing that you've you've put out

there um and you want the market to know?

It can be a combination of both, but it's also part of like our overarching value proposition is that first of all, you need a platform to manage cost and

pre-construction and that um you should when you have these JVS that are multi-billion dollar projects, you should still have the same you should still be able to utilize that

tool just because there's a new entity.

And um that's the value of having a cloud solution versus other companies that are a desktop tool which are not going to work for that. Um so it's also

just reinforcing our messaging of why you should be using a cloud application and even if maybe you feel like we don't address all your needs today directionally we are the right tech

stack for all future work.

>> And this is just another example to support that thesis and argument.

>> Fair enough. And then so once you have this landing page then you you go out uh to people you know and tell them about it or >> I literally LinkedIn and I'm not joking

I had three companies reached out that day.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Cool. It worked.

>> One person wrote me is like this is so e it makes so much sense. It's kind of stupid that no one else does this.

>> Did he play the trumpet for you as well?

>> No. I I I appreciated the direct quote.

[laughter] >> Well, >> well, then we had a chat and he's like, "Dustin, feels like you just do the obvious things and for some reason you find the things that no one else thought were obvious." It's like,

were obvious." It's like, >> "Wow, w well that's >> that's a completely under like spoken skill. There's something deeply skillful

skill. There's something deeply skillful about that and people really don't put enough value on how skillful that is."

And I think that yeah I think Patrick uses a framework called like hidden in spite of obvious and that reminds me reminds me of that. Yeah it becomes obvious once people are aware but it's

totally unobvious to start with and even like comparing that kind of thing to Uber um like how simple that app is and how successful it was like anyone could say yeah I could have thought of that.

It's like yeah you could have thought about it now like when once it a few billion dollars >> later. Yeah, we have all kinds of things

>> later. Yeah, we have all kinds of things in Edify that once people see, they're like, "Yeah, I actually do that in Excel." And then I numbers back into my

Excel." And then I numbers back into my my estimating tool. It's like, "Yeah, you probably should just have it in your estimating tool."

estimating tool." [laughter] >> Hey, well, look, the reason I asked, and I don't feel like I'm the right person to judge here because if you go on the bricks and buys website, I'm fully aware that we are in need of some kind of

revamp. So look, if anyone listening to

revamp. So look, if anyone listening to this wants to like hook us up with a great web designer, we are all ears at the moment and it's something we're deeply thinking about. But the reason I asked, >> yeah, we need we need a we need a

content strategist. [laughter]

content strategist. [laughter] >> Watch this space. You may have some some news fairly soon. Um, but the reason I asked is because I came across this

article. Um, and it is the headline of

article. Um, and it is the headline of the article is uh okay, I don't have the headline of the article. Oh, heyo. Win

the first five seconds of uh the landing page and it's what Y Combinator advis their startups to put on their landing page. So, regardless of like what you

page. So, regardless of like what you think of Y Cominator and whatnot, I think it's got some um cool principles that people could learn a few things from. And what I did, it's a very very

from. And what I did, it's a very very very long article. We'll put a link in the in the notes here. Um but what I did is I just quickly put it into Jebnia and asked for the uh summary and what the

key takeaways are for people who would be listening to this. Um and what it has given us is we can go through each of these. Um you have approximately 5

these. Um you have approximately 5 seconds to convince a visitor to stay on your site. If a user cannot understand

your site. If a user cannot understand what you do and why they should care within that window, they will bounce.

Here's a summary of the five key takeaways.

>> So your landing page is not a biography of your company. It's a sales pitch that needs to work instantly. When a loser land when a user a loser lands on your page, they subconsciously ask two

questions. What does this startup do? Is

questions. What does this startup do? Is

this for me? If they do answer that immediately, you have failed the test and without scrolling. So, they can't scroll to answer that question. Here's

key takeaways. Number one, the hero section above the fold is everything.

This is the screen people see before they scroll. It must contain 100% of

they scroll. It must contain 100% of your core value proposition. The

headline, be descriptive, not clever.

Avoid marketing jargon like empowering the future of workflow. Instead, use

concrete X for Y phrasing. Bad

revolutionizing how we connect. Good is

the Airbnb for dog walking or oneclick payroll for remote teams. Then you have a sub headline which you where you explain how you deliver the headline.

>> Really use the example of Airbnb for dog walkers.

>> I think I said it like that. That's not

very clear. And I'm pretty sure Airbnb probably offer dog walking as part of their services thing. Now though, the sub headline should explain how you deliver on the headlines promise. Use

this space to highlight the primary benefit or specific features and the call to action. Make it distinct and actionorientated.

Don't use stuff like learn more. It's

too passive. Do stuff like get started, book a demo, or sign up free. Agree or

disagree?

>> I think it's valid points. My struggle

is most of the time I look at the websites of startups. I just don't understand what is what is what that is about being in construction obviously within a limited capacity of what I've

been doing for my whole life but still I feel like I should understand at least what the folks are doing right so >> I think it's also like they're they're

great insights for early stage companies and companies specifically focused on productled growth in that people can self onboard I think that it falls short if you are focused more on mid-market or

enterprise where people can't self onboard and it's more of a of a longer buying cycle where they're looking for more information to justify a reason why and so you're not

going to be able to hit that reason why with >> I the hero is important and you know to Martin's point >> there no one should ever leave your website and say I don't know what they

do >> and there is a lot of companies but I I think it's also kind of funny that YC is like says that and And half of YC's batch is just like we are AI for this.

What do you do?

>> They obviously haven't read the article on it.

>> Obviously.

>> Yeah. By the way, >> what you guys think about video on the website like first five, seven?

>> Well, actually this comes this comes to the next point. M is a good question. It

says you should show the product immediately. Uh founders apparently

immediately. Uh founders apparently often hide their actual product behind abstract illustrations or stock photos of people shaking hands. Maybe they

don't have a product. And YC advises the opposite. If it's software, show the

opposite. If it's software, show the interface. Use gifts and videos. A

interface. Use gifts and videos. A

5-second looping GIF showing the core workflow is often better than a two-minute explainer video that no one clicks. And have concrete visuals if

clicks. And have concrete visuals if it's a hardware product. Show high

quality photos of the device, not the lifestyle around it. Yeah, I think that what is a great idea and I think I've seen it one in a traditional business,

not a startup. It was like a caricature of uh situation um that these people were solving for.

So they showed the how they solved the problem in a funny way uh using uh animated um um animated like Disney kind of

caricatur. So, and you you listen you

caricatur. So, and you you listen you you watch it, you listen to it, it takes 10 or 12 seconds and you know exactly what's that about. Such a great idea.

>> I actually have a rule >> and I'd say in general if you can't find videos of them showing their product, it

probably sucks.

Literally, it probably sucks. or it's

very old and they're scared of the interface and so they don't want to show you the interface because you immediately underwrite them as being >> and so that's usually what happens is all the old companies they don't show their interface because they want you to

sit down with them and say oh yeah but it's really really like there's a lot of power behind all this >> yeah if they can't show their product it probably sucks

>> blind dates >> uh I also actually thinking when I was reading through this I want to shout out to Kevin Ferguson. Destin, I know you work with him.

>> Um, and I done a brilliant podcast episode with him a few months back where he gave us some frameworks which you can actually incorporate on landing pages.

So, I would highly recommend people reach out to Kevin or AL and also check out the episode that we've done with him where he goes into that a little bit deeper. Next point that they make,

deeper. Next point that they make, social proof builds trust fast. I think

most people will be aware of this key principle of influence here. But logos

are recognizable companies used by a thousand teams makes you 60 67% more productive and saves you $400 million on one one

mistake.

It doesn't say that. I mean I'm taking that. I'm just saying some of the stuff

that. I'm just saying some of the stuff I've seen recently which makes me >> as definition of western marketing or just reading You need to own that term, man.

>> Yeah, western marketing.com. I'm going

to buy it now.

>> Westernmarketing.com.

You might buy it. That would be great.

>> Um, the don't do not do this. Okay, this

might be more interesting for people.

>> No carousels or sliders. Users ignore

them and they hide your key message. Put

your best value proposition front and center and keep it static. No wall of text. People scan, they don't read. Use

text. People scan, they don't read. Use

bullet points and bold text to make your page skimable. No jargon. If you have to

page skimable. No jargon. If you have to explain your industry terms, you've already lost a user, right? As if you're explaining to your product to a friend outside the industry. I think that can

really heavily depend actually.

>> Yeah. I I in some ways you want to show that you understand the customer.

Like this is where the nuance comes in of like hey are you is your website really for investors because the point in time you're at or is it really for customer acquisition? If it's for customer

acquisition? If it's for customer acquisition you're speaking directly to the buyer >> and I think if you are using terms that >> well I'll I'll put it this way. I end up

talking to a lot of founders that want to get into construction and just from a tech career. I I don't know why

tech career. I I don't know why construction is so attractive to people who aren't from the industry, but then you talk to them and you're like, you don't they start using terms and like

you don't understand what that means or how to use it properly in a sentence.

And that's a huge problem because you lose a lot of confidence in their ability to execute long term if they don't understand like how to use the right terminology in the right context.

>> It's a huge offput in construction actually. Um yeah,

actually. Um yeah, >> like not getting the the terminology correct and people sniff it instantly and know that you're an outsider and this tribal this tribal thing kicks in where they're like who the hell is this guy? I don't want to speak to them

guy? I don't want to speak to them anymore.

>> That's right. Um,

and I think that is the end of the article.

So there you go. That's how you build a landing page. Um, okay. We have a few

landing page. Um, okay. We have a few places we can go. Shall we tell you about the data grid agent we went to, which I thought was genius and also really fun day that we did recently in New York.

>> You guys go.

>> Yes. Um,

>> Tom was texting me about it yesterday.

>> I was brilliant. I really really um >> yeah it's so much fun with Tom.

>> Ah Tom Tom is sick. We love Tom.

[laughter] Every time I see that guy he just the my cheeks hurt cuz he makes me smile so much cuz he's just >> I'll tell can I tell Tom story.

>> So Tom Yeah, you tell if you feel comfortable tell it.

>> Uh we were at Procore Groundbreak and we were hanging at the afterparty and you know Tom for those of you who don't know Tom Fleas he's great. I've known him a very long time. We actually started our career in construction in Sacramento

together. And he pretty much knows

together. And he pretty much knows everyone in the industry. So, he and I are good friends. And we're at Procore Groundbreak and he's talking to well, I won't say the company's name,

but a company, a very large company. And

[snorts] uh you know, Tom's meeting Tom, he walks away and the two executives at this company, and I'm talking like the CIO, and they're like, "What is that guy on right now?

>> [laughter] >> I'm like, "That's that's just Tom." He's

like, >> "I need I need to inhale his oxygen cuz [laughter] that guy brings it."

>> Yeah.

>> We had like five minutes of such a great laugh.

>> I just couldn't stop.

>> When I I like first met Tom in person.

This is like a This is kind of like a Tom appreciation segment. So, he's a great guy. Uh well, we first done a

great guy. Uh well, we first done a podcast with Tom, didn't we? uh maybe 6 months on bricks and bicgo and it was like pure entertainment like aside like there was real nuggets of wisdom about

go to market and he's one of the greatest sales people in this industry and um and on top of that there was just this layer of entertainment that was

just like we had so much fun with him and then I met him in um he actually came to London and he was doing they were doing some stuff at data grill and we had a quick chat and then I met him

again at university in Nashville And uh one like the entire three days he was just really really cracking me up and making me smile. But two when we were there one morning he come up to me and

was like we're going to do this hackathon in New York and Owen what date can you make? And I was like well we're going to be in Boston on the 19th of uh November. And he was like all right

November. And he was like all right we're going to do it on the 20th of November. And two weeks later, they've

November. And two weeks later, they've like booked the venue and everything has been put into plan and the wheels are rolling in place for this this hackathon to happen. And it was like literally a

to happen. And it was like literally a one minute conversation that we had sitting on some sofa in in Autoes University and I was like that's great execution right there.

>> Yeah.

>> Anyway, to the event. So, uh yeah, this was held in New York. This was the one of the fir I think it was the first one they're doing of this series of um um hackathons or they're calling it a

gentle um for people for uh for specifically building AI agents within the construction in a industry and the first location was New York. They're

going to be doing them around uh the uh the US and I think some places in Europe. I know they want to come to

Europe. I know they want to come to London at some point and do one too. And

um uh we were there for a full day and there was a few presentations in the morning and then in the afternoon it was all about everyone getting together and building uh AI agents. And what I really

loved about it from a product marketing perspective was that uh they showed a little bit about the benefits of agents and then they let people actually get their hands dirty and build agents. And

we done like some some content there and we done like we done this sort of um um story script where we followed people at the start of the day, asked them what their confidence level was and how they

were feeling and then we followed them throughout the day and we'll be releasing that video soon. It's very

interesting for people who want to watch and um and see how what people's experiences were at the event. But you

literally at the beginning of the day we spoke to these people and we're like what's your confidence in AI agents and most few people like uh two out of 10 one out of 10 three out of 10 >> and they're like deflated in how they're

speaking cuz they're a little bit anxious like the day hadn't started and by the end of it these people were like like different totally different and their confidence levels most of these gone from like a one to a two to like a

seven or seven or an eight and it was really really cool to see and I think why it worked is because um they weren't just showing showing people how to use agents. They were actually giving people

agents. They were actually giving people the tools to go and build their own agents and then people felt like they were really achieving something and as a result of that um like it's obviously

done their product a huge huge uh uh service there and and like people were now like really pushing for the for the data grid product to be adopted internally within their company. So I

think master stroke of genius from their team well done data grid. It's also the product is so simple to um to be implemented by a company which is which says a lot.

>> Yeah.

>> Mhm.

>> No, I think I think Owen, you hit the nail on the head. It demystifies what an agent is where right now people don't know what it is and they don't know how

to interact with it. And so AI right now is a tool that's given to them. And if

if you teach them how to create agents to help them accomplish their specific acute problems, I think that that's a powerful powerful message.

>> I think yeah, people can draw inspiration from that. And also back to Tom's point, when I was in the airport going back to the UK, he sent me a an AI

generated song of Sununo of the day [laughter] of the entire day and it was like a reggae version of the the description of

the hackathon. I think we should try and

the hackathon. I think we should try and play it on here. It gave me the idea we should do like a bricks and bice top of the pops where people submit their AI construction tech songs and we have a

chart Um, yeah, he was texting me. So, they

want to throw one in SF, so I I think we're going to help uh help put it together.

>> Nice. Looking forward to it.

>> Yeah, >> good stuff. Um,

shall we go to something? Okay, we got 10 minutes left. I've maybe got two more things to cover here. Two two cool things. Number one is this

things. Number one is this happening on Oh, the date. Oh, we're re Let me share my screen. People can see.

I recommend people look at the screen right now.

>> Yeah.

>> Let's get ready to rumble.

>> So, so >> this is such a great image.

>> Well, look, I can't take credit for this image because uh I think Luigi, shout out to Luigi, he put this initial version together. I then took it put it

version together. I then took it put it into Nano Banana and asked it to make it more like UFC style.

>> Um And so it did. And so here we have the great LLM debate. And I really hope that we can um do more of these because it

encourages >> Yeah. I feel like people are

>> Yeah. I feel like people are >> There's one more actually on the line.

>> Well, I don't think someone's accepting.

>> Yeah. Well, we should we can help. Um

>> we can push.

>> Yeah.

>> I I pushed him the other day or today.

>> No luck. I I think that someone likes to talk a lot, not actually uh defend their arguments.

[laughter] >> So, what you see here is Yeah, this is this is Mike Powers versus Luigi. Um

we're going to host it live on uh I think live. I don't know if we've agreed

think live. I don't know if we've agreed that yet. I'm pretty certain we have on

that yet. I'm pretty certain we have on Bricks and Bites. Um and Patrick is actually going to moderate it all being well. Um so that is going to be a

well. Um so that is going to be a whopper event and we are looking forward

into uh to discussing what the um to finding out what the um outcome of that will be. I'm just thinking if I can

quickly tease people what the agenda we figure out who who is who wins this.

>> Well hey >> prediction market to my next point. I'm

going to come to that in a second.

>> Yes.

>> But prediction market can be done before, right? If it h so we need you

before, right? If it h so we need you need a definitive kind of ending of this uh debate like who wins it? Who who

judges >> who won it?

>> I know powers is uh training a lot by vibe coding. That's what [laughter]

vibe coding. That's what [laughter] >> Mike Yeah, his uh fingers have been busy on the on the buttons.

I can't find the agenda, but I will post the event tomorrow um on Bricks and B's LinkedIn page and we will post a link so people can join and get involved. Um I

think like it will be fun fun debate. Uh

no one no one is knocking each other out physically or not. It's going to be more of a um discussion and we will let the crowd decide really on what what whether

um people agree or or not. And

>> I do agree. Good.

>> I I I think I just just to give a little bit of a tease, it's it's going to be around this premise that um out of the

box LLMs, i.e. Google, OpenAI,

Anthropic, um, are able to produce 100% accurate takeoffs

versus someone building or coding a foundational type LLM specifically for that use case. So I think we won't just focus on takeoffs, but we will focus on

that as a topic discussion. Is it better to build a solution using out of the box LLMs or is it better to actually build a foundational LLM which solves the problem?

>> So, >> what do you think, Dustin?

>> Well, if you were to ask me to bet and I am going to have to bet on this next year, I would uh and this is before I've

done what I'll what I will do and make a very very um deep dive into this. I

would reckon and I I doubt my opinion will change is that everything you need is going to come from one of the large

AI models and that you will then augment it with user um user experiences and flows that help them accomplish their task for when the point in time things

are not accurate. But the level of precision that these models are going to reach is going to far exceed even what you would do on your own at some point

and is very very close anyway. So I I'm more in the powers camp on some of the things they're doing with >> with I would actually say same similar

thing that I I use u GPT Gemini day-to-day to read from the drawings.

>> Yeah. And it does like it does way more than I would do it within two hours in five seconds. So,

five seconds. So, >> and certainly for things like cross referencing discrepancies for callouts on the plans and specifications and those things are actually even hard for

a human to go through and do.

>> Hey, Ah, but that's the point, right? I

like would do you think an L out of the box LLM will it be able to do that? And

I think to Luigi's point um uh he's he's he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's his he's and when we had the discussion with him a few weeks back on Briggs Bucks and bites he was saying like often the the skill is actually on like what's not like the implied

knowledge not not what's explicitly stated on a drawing. So like it's what's not there is where the skill of an estimator and it turns over a takeoff comes in.

>> Yeah. I but well I think these two will debate it better than we can.

>> Yeah. Going to be a good one. So add

that to the diary. Um okay and finally we we are so people who are listening to this either live or we'll listen to it

when it gets released tomorrow I Friday the 5th of December we're going to be launching a closed beta beta of the AEC prediction market. So if you want to

prediction market. So if you want to join it's going to run from the 8th of December to the 21st of December. So

we're doing like a two week uh sprint and we'll have a daily market we'll have a two weekly market. So a market that covers the entire twoe duration. We'll

have a market each week and then we'll have a daily market. So we're just going to try and stress test this while hopefully having a little bit of fun and we're going to see who is the best the cleverest person in the AEC technology

or AC industry over a twoe period and then we'll launch it to the public hopefully in January will be in well. So

if you want to join then just shoot me a message and I'll add you. We're going to have a WhatsApp group um and we're going to have some fun hopefully >> and it's going to be private. cash or

points.

>> I like we can't do it for cash sadly because you have to have regulation. Um

maybe there is a way but by crypto. But

>> how about the the winner? The winner

gets to come on Bricks, Bites, and Bucks.

>> Well, we have some prizes. Actually,

last place prize is a onetoone session with Martin for an hour.

>> Oh god.

[laughter] >> Two hours.

And you have to take it. There's no

option.

>> You have to take it. Yeah. [laughter]

>> You better be good.

>> No, there's some prizes. Some companies

have actually donated prizes already.

Um, some tech companies within the industry have donated prizes for the main thing.

>> Um, I don't want to say too much yet because I don't I'm not 100% like >> convinced on the pricing strategy just yet. So, this is the part of the reason

yet. So, this is the part of the reason that we're going to do this test as well and get feedback. Love it.

>> So, watch this space. Okay. Anything

more from you, you two? No.

>> Missing Patrick.

>> Yeah, >> it was nice having last week off for Thanksgiving. Hope everyone enjoyed

Thanksgiving. Hope everyone enjoyed their holiday.

>> Yeah, Dustin, man, you you are speeding through those 5ks at the moment, huh?

>> Oh, yeah. So, I I did run a 5K turkey trot and I took third over 40 in my local turkey trot. I averaged six

minutes and 32 seconds per mile. I was

proud of that considering I'm just a tech guy that just sits on a lot of zooms. [laughter] >> Tech guy.

>> Fit tech guy. Take your Twitter handle.

>> I mean, it's not bad for 42 and I'm 200 lb. I'll take it.

lb. I'll take it.

>> That's good. That's really good, man.

Like, seriously, that's that's fast.

Very fast for your age.

>> Very fast.

>> Yeah. Well, for for you overseas people, it's like 403 per kilometer.

>> Yeah, that's very fast.

>> When I do like 445 a kilometer, my legs my body is screaming at me. So,

congrats.

>> Thanks.

>> Yeah.

>> She's slower than Dustin.

>> Yes, I am. I don't mind. Like, G is fast.

>> I didn't mean to be rude. I just don't care. Okay.

care. Okay.

You can't offend me these days, Martin.

Uh, okay. Uh, Martin, anything from you?

>> Uh, no. Really?

>> You know who's really fast at running, by the way, is Kevin Halter >> or Yeah, Kevin Halter. Yeah,

>> fast.

>> Jeans or training?

>> Huh?

>> Jeans. Jeans or training?

>> No. No. He's

>> He's legit. Like, he's like I think I I think he's like an 18 35k guy. I think

he's two or three years older than me, so it's pretty good.

Sweet. I'm not going to be here next week, so mine mine mine's on the buttons. Good luck, my friend.

buttons. Good luck, my friend.

See you all next week.

>> Bye, everyone. Yeah.

>> Bricks, Bucks, and Bites.

[music] >> [music]