Alibaba Chairman Joe Tsai Spoke at Edward K Y Chen Distinguished Lecture 2025

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Edward KY distinguished lecture 2025.

I'm Xiaawing Chu Kevin, a year three student in international business and global management program.

>> And I am Emmy Hagawa, a year 4 student in the international business and global management program. We are happy to be

management program. We are happy to be the MC's for today's event and we are delighted to have Mr. Joe Thai, co-founder and chairman of Alibaba

Group, to share with us his valuable insights. As a business school student,

insights. As a business school student, it is such an honor to be able to learn from an industry-shaping business leader firsthand.

Before the lecture before the lecture commences, may we first invite Professor Hing Thai, D of HU Business Studio to deliver a welcome remark. Professor Tai, please.

remark. Professor Tai, please.

Professor Edward Chen, Mr. Joai, Executive Committee member, distinguished guest, colleagues, alumni,

friends, ladies and gentlemen. Good

afternoon.

Welcome to Hong Kong U. Welcome to this historical loyal hall and welcome to this annual signature event, the Edward

Chen distinguished lecture series.

Now, this lecture series was established to honor a legendary role Professor Edward Chen

has played in uh educating, mentoring, nurturing leaders.

For some reason, Edward has lots of uh secret tricks.

So uh he has been so successful that many of his students went on to become influential leaders in all sectors of

Hong Kong and Edward's legacy has inspired generation of teachers at Hong Kongu Business School and has

become a cornerstone of our tradition.

Recently Hong Kong U has enjoyed lots of good news. our rising you know rankings QS number 11 surpassing many of

the leading schools in the world and there's a very little room to go further up uh but we certainly will continue to work hard and Hong Kong Business School

also you know seen our ranking in research in other things and be risen up over the years but with all this we must never lose

sight of our core mission. Our core mission is always in education.

Our mission is to educate and nurture next generation of leaders for Hong Kong, for China, and then for the world.

So, let's continue to follow Edward's example, committing ourselves to making positive impacts on our students and

they can go on to make positive impacts in the world. So, please join me in giving a warm round of applause to the

forever young Professor Edward Chen.

And today, we're truly truly honored to welcome Mr. Jai, co-founder and chairman of Alibaba Group as our distinguished uh

speaker.

I think what's I'm most impressed about Joe is his extraordinary ability to re

reinvent himself and reinvent Alibaba time and again. So from his early days as a lawyer, as a banker, I was asking

Joe why did he make that jump to join a small startup in Hanzo which was led by someone who couldn't find a job himself

and to join and then to really transforming e-commerce in China and then later on investing in global

sports franchises and then when Alibaba needed him went back to Alibaba to steer Alibaba to this AI and cloud era.

So I think his journey is really a masterclass of courage of vision of adaptability of

greater leaderships for change. I think

in today's fast evolving world and this is very essential for any personal and business success.

So at the Hong Kong Business School, we too embrace this spirit of reinvention.

So as AI and the global dynamics shifts at unprecedented pace, we've been launching new programs, reforming our curriculum, refocus our research to

remain on the forefront of business education.

From our roots in Hong Kong, we've deepened our presence in mainland China with centers in Beijing, in Shanghai, in Senzhen, while also expanding globally

with a center in Vietnam and our Hong Kong Europe center or campus in Barcelona.

So to our students, alumni today, whether you are navigating an uh competitive job market or a fast changing industry, I think the ability

to embrace change and reinvent yourself and your business is absolutely crucial.

So I'm sure Joe's insights will inspire all of us. So thank you so much, Joe, for joining us. We are so delighted that you are here. Let's get started. Thank

you. Thank you, Joe.

>> Thank you, Professor Tai. Please be

seated.

>> Wow, Emmy, our hall is busting today.

Let's make this moment unforgettable with a group photo from the stage.

Everyone, please be ready for our official photographer.

Hey, hey, hey.

May we now invite Mr. Hing Wang Fung, convenor of the Edward Chen Distinguished Lecture Series Organizing Committee to introduce our speaker

today. Mr. Fun, please.

today. Mr. Fun, please.

Good afternoon everyone.

It is a genuine privilege to welcome all our distinguished guests, esteemed faculty,

fellow alumni and students to this Edward Kaen distinguished lecture.

While there are many distinguished guests in this hall, in the interest of time, allow me not to

address any of them individually, but just say all protocols observed.

I trust none of you would want me to stand between you and our speaker for too long.

Let me now start with my pleasant duty of introducing the speaker.

Ladies and gentlemen, we're living in a moment of profound global transformation.

The question of what drives economic growth in the world's second largest economy is not just an academic exercise.

It is a critical puzzle for business leaders, investors, and policy makers worldwide.

To explore this vital topic today, we are incredibly fortunate to have with us a visionary who has not only witnessed China's

economic metamorphosis, but has been one of its principal architects.

It is my pleasure and honor to introduce our guest speaker, Mr. Joe Chai, the co-founder and chairman of the Alibaba

Group.

Many of you know the story. In 1999,

when the internet was dawning, a former teacher named Jackmar had a bold vision.

He found his perfect partner in Joe Chai, a young educated lawyer with a deep background in private equity.

While Jack was the charismatic heart of Alibaba, Joe was the strategic and financial backbone.

He structured the company, secured its early funding and for over two decades has been the steady hand guiding its

growth from a humble apartment startup to a global technology titan.

Some of you may recall that Jackmar was on this stage addressing a similar audience

17 years ago in the year 2008 as the speaker of our second distinguished lecture. We must thank

distinguished lecture. We must thank Alibaba for the great support given to this distinguished lecture series as we have both of his co-founders as our

speakers.

As chairman of the Alibaba group, Joe's purview extends far beyond a e-commerce.

He oversees Alibaba's strategic acquisition, its global expansion, and its long-term

vision. But to define Joe Chai solely by

vision. But to define Joe Chai solely by Alibaba would be to tell only half the story.

Beyond Alibaba, Joe is a renounced investor and philanthropist.

through his family office, the Bluepool Capital, he has a panoramic view of global technology and innovation trends.

Furthermore, as the owner of the Brooklyn Nets, the New York Liberty, and a number of other sports organizations, he understands the power of building

global brands and fostering community, a skill set highly relevant in today's interconnected world.

He is also a proud member of the university community holding both a JD from the Y Law School and a BA in

economics and East Asian studies. He has

conferred an honorary degree in social science by the education university of Hong Kong. His journey from the

Hong Kong. His journey from the classroom to the pinnacle of global business is a powerful testament to the

impact of a world-class education and a tremendous inspiration for our students here today.

His diverse roles, founder, chairman, investor and philanthropist give him a unique and invaluable perspective.

He sees the big picture from the boardroom, the granular details on the balance sheet and the human impact from his

philanthropic work. This is why there is

philanthropic work. This is why there is no one better to guide us through today's topic than the logical drivers for China's economic growth in the next

10 years. He won't just be speaking

10 years. He won't just be speaking about theories. He'll be sharing

about theories. He'll be sharing insights forged in the marketplace.

In a moment, he will join Professor Haywang, an associate dean of the business school. Professor Tang is also an

school. Professor Tang is also an associate vice president of the University of Hong Kong. The two of them will have a fireside chat, a

conversation that promises to be not just informative but illuminating.

Ladies and gentlemen, please join me in giving a very warm welcome to the man who helped shaped the digital landscape

of China and beyond, Joe Chai.

>> Thank you, Mr. Fong. Please be seated.

>> Without further ado, let's welcome Mr. Joe Thai, co-founder and chairman of Alibaba Group, to proceed to the stage for the fireside chat. Please, may we

also invite the moderator, Professor Hi Wii Tang, Associate Vice President Global of the University of Hong Kong and Associate Dean of HKU Business

School to proceed to the stage.

>> We will now pass the floor to Professor Hay 10. Professor Ten, please.

Hay 10. Professor Ten, please.

>> All right. Uh, so first of all, I have never seen so many people in Lugo Hall.

You know, Joe, uh this is our oldest lecture hall at Hong Kong University. Uh

we could have picked a bigger lecture hall uh because we have never seen such a quick and massive response after we sent out only one email about this event. Within two hours, we had more

event. Within two hours, we had more than 1,200 people sign up for this event. If we let it last for two more

event. If we let it last for two more days, I bet we'll have more than 100,000 people will sign up for this event. And

then we have to rank the new Kiteak Sports Stadium uh for you. Uh but

anyhow, you know, welcome to Hong Kong University. Uh so glad to have this

University. Uh so glad to have this opportunity to speak with you. Uh so

today's topic is very timely and it's a grand topic. I know you just rushed in

grand topic. I know you just rushed in from another event. So I'm going to give you a soft start to talk about something that is truly deep into your heart and that is sports. Uh everyone know

everyone knows that you are not only the chairman of Alibaba but also the owner of Brooklyn Nets. Uh and most recently you brought your own team to Macau uh to

compete with Fenus Sun and I was told that it you it won right?

>> We won one game and lost one game.

>> Okay. Uh so I knew the one that uh your team won. Uh but my first question to

team won. Uh but my first question to you uh which is also very interesting for our audience is that you know when did you get interested in investing in professional sports?

>> Yeah. and what kind of opportunities you think NBA can bring to China.

>> Uh, Professor Deng, before I uh get into the question, I I first just want to express my uh deepest appreciation. I I

feel extremely honored uh to be able to be on this stage. Um I'm no Jack Ma. Uh

so uh uh but uh uh to have this uh opportunity to uh share ideas when when you guys approached me uh this is a

lecture series and I said I didn't want to stand up on the podium to lecture people uh I would prefer to do a fireside chat format to so that we could

sort of exchange ideas and uh uh in honor of uh professor Chen and Uh so I look forward to you know this exchange and also a little I understand

there's a little bit of Q&A later on with the students >> uh in the audience so I really look forward to that.

>> So um thank you very much. Thank you. Uh

yeah so uh the NBA has been in China for a long time. They've actually uh played games in China for many many years. Uh

and and then there was a hiatus after 2019.

Um the uh this year was the first time uh in six years that the uh NBA brought two teams, two NBA teams, one of them is

mine, Brooklyn Nets, to play in the Chinese territory. and uh uh they they

Chinese territory. and uh uh they they chose uh to play in Macau. Uh they have a a deal with the Macau Sands organization uh to play in Macau for the

next five years. Uh but part of the deal is that there's a chance for the NBA to also opt to play uh in mainland China.

So at some point I expect that uh in the not too distant future the NBA will be back in mainland China. And uh from the NBA's perspective, the logic is very

clear. China has the probably the

clear. China has the probably the largest uh basketball fan base in the world and everybody follows NBA. Why is

that? Because NBA is the league where the best players in the world play. Uh

about 30% of the NBA's players are non-American.

Uh they come from all over the world.

They come from uh Europe, Eastern Europe Australia.

Uh not many Asian players, but of course we hope that in the future, China would develop its basketball program and we

can see another Yaoing in the NBA. So

the fan base is huge in uh in in in in China. So it makes a lot of sense for

China. So it makes a lot of sense for the NBA to come back uh to China and play games to so that the players can interact in person with the fan base. Uh

and of course during all these years the NBA's uh games are always broadcast in in China um through uh uh central

television and also on streaming media.

uh from China's perspective uh it's equally as important uh for China to be engaged to the rest of the

world and to bring the best part of uh sports and other aspects of culture from around the world to China to interact

with the fan base in China >> and uh uh so uh so this this time uh we get a huge very warm welcome from uh

from the China side of things and uh uh because the NBA is so popular and the the the games are a huge success and we actually uh gave the fans a very uh very

good showing uh in terms of the competitive level.

One game went into overtime. The other

game was uh I think we we actually won we lost the overtime game but we won the game uh by like three points the second night. So

night. So uh it was a great experience and I I'm just very positive uh about uh uh this kind of cultural exchange and sporting

exchange. Uh I just wanted to mention

exchange. Uh I just wanted to mention this idea of using sports to uh bring uh cultures together is very very important. Uh a big part of my

important. Uh a big part of my philanthropy in China is all about sports, investing in sports as part of

education. And I have a program to bring

education. And I have a program to bring uh middle school kids uh eighth graders that are about to go into the ninth

grade uh for them to send them to the United States for high school, four years of high school to play basketball, but more importantly to get an education

in the US. Uh there's a little bit of uh uh replicating my own experience because I when I was young I left Taiwan when I was 13 years old and then I went to the

US for boarding school and university and so on >> and uh this program has uh is actually both developing the next generation of

basketball talent in China >> but also uh giving the kids an opportunity to see what's outside >> uh in the And also I think the biggest

beneficiaries are the high school kids in the US. The Americans they see these kids coming from China. Uh they've all read about China but they don't know

they haven't interacted with people individuals and and uh we we select the best of the best both from academic standpoint and also basketball skills

standpoint and they are come into the US environment >> and they become part of the community and they're well loved in the community.

So this this is great. This kind of people-to-people exchange is so important. Uh and I believe uh uh you

important. Uh and I believe uh uh you know if you know if I have the resource and ability to do that I will always support that program.

>> Great. So how many kids can get your scholarship to go to the US?

>> It's very selective competitive. So

every year we uh select between six to eight kids.

>> Oh okay. Those are really the best.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I was hoping that my nine-year-old son would have a chance, but I guess it's too challenging.

>> We can always try. You uh you're holding them back.

>> Okay, great. Yeah, very encouraging. Um,

so great. Well, I didn't know about the philanthropy philanthropy part of your uh sports business, but you know, I hope that you can keep bringing uh your team uh to China.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh to show us the best uh of the uh professional basketball in the world, >> right? Uh so my second question before

>> right? Uh so my second question before we really get to the grand topic is about Alibaba. uh you know uh you know

about Alibaba. uh you know uh you know your friend Jackmar uh came here two in 2008 uh and obviously you may still remember

in 2008 what Alibaba was but my understanding is you know in the last 26 years Alibaba was transformed into a

pretty simple B2B e-commerce company to today one of the largest AI plus cloud computing company uh could you could you share with us with us a little bit about

uh you know how Alibaba has been so transformative and you know what are sort of the secret source of Alibaba that managed to turn itself into different kinds of companies

every 5 to 10 years.

>> Yeah, just a little bit of historical context. When I joined Alibaba in 1999,

context. When I joined Alibaba in 1999, uh China's GDP per capita was $800 and today is $13,000.

uh the the growth has been tremendous and I always tell my friends that I'm in a very fortunate position because I

lived through the confluence of uh the rise of China as a manufacturing power and the economy of China rising uh and

the uh advent of the internet you know the growth driven by the internet and sort of sitting at the intersection of that I was able to you know from the

Alibaba vantage point witness this uh uh sort of dual engine growth uh it was quite tremendous and uh uh Alibaba's

original idea like you said is a B2B website uh because we Jack thought that he wanted to use the internet to level the playing field for all the small businesses in China trading companies

small manufacturers which if you recall Paul, before the WTO, China entered the WTO in 2001. But

before that, international trade had be had to be done through state-owned trading companies. But once China

trading companies. But once China entered the WTO, it opened up trade and that was the beginning of China's development as a manufacturing base. Uh

because people started to set up factories. They they could see

factories. They they could see opportunities to trade using the internet to trade with the rest of the world. So Alibaba's inception was a

world. So Alibaba's inception was a businessto business website. We sold

things or we help small businesses sell things wholesale. Uh and and by the way,

things wholesale. Uh and and by the way, Alibaba's first website was in English language for you know because we it was facing to

buyers around the world, right? It was

an outsidefacing website. Um and then we evolved from B2B commerce to consumer commerce uh which became the largest uh consumer

uh shopping platform Tao today.

>> Uh we also developed payment because uh there was a pain point. Buyers and sellers didn't trust

point. Buyers and sellers didn't trust each other. Buyers didn't want to pay

each other. Buyers didn't want to pay first and sellers didn't want to ship the product. So we invented a thing

the product. So we invented a thing called Alipay which in its original form was a escrow system to allow uh the trade to to happen. Uh and then we got

involved in logistics and and so on and so forth. And you ask about the secret

so forth. And you ask about the secret sauce. I think the secret sauce is that

sauce. I think the secret sauce is that uh a company a good company always develops uh when they follow customer

needs and customer demands.

the we we we we basically follow what our customers wanted and we developed everything organically.

>> Um I would always uh you know if you uh uh people in the audience here the students later on you will go out and found companies uh you would always want to favor organic development over

acquisitions. Now, of course, we've also

acquisitions. Now, of course, we've also made some acquisitions. Some of them are successful and some of them failed spectacularly, but always favor the or

organic development because it's it it uh because you're developing it through your team and your team has the best DNA

uh in terms of uh the Alibaba culture and innovation.

>> So, uh that's how we sort of evolved. uh

and then the reason we got into the cloud computing business was also uh to service our own need. It's not because someone decided oh cloud is a good

business we should uh you know it's a good industry to be in and and and we went into it. That's not the case. We

developed the cloud business 16 years ago. 16 years ago, nobody was talking

ago. 16 years ago, nobody was talking about cloud computing and we said we were we were looking at all the data we

were managing and uh the the consumer platform was handling massive amounts of transactions and uh our CTO came to us and said if we

continue to uh use thirdparty software and hardware you know we were using uh servers from Dell and IBM uh storage

device from EMC, database software from Oracle. If we continue to use that, um

Oracle. If we continue to use that, um we will later on hand over all of our profits to these technology vendors. Uh

so we developed cloud computing really out of necessity, out of the need to become self-reliant in technology, which is later on we'll talk about that as a

sort of national thing. And uh uh so we uh develop we had a team that uh focused on that uh development of an op sort of

an operating software. Not you know when you think about operating software you think about a single computer but this is an operating software that worked across data centers work across multiple

computers and uh uh why because we need to do parallel compute in order to manage the large amount of data that we

have. That's the uh genesis of our cloud

have. That's the uh genesis of our cloud business. We really ate our own dog food

business. We really ate our own dog food right and used it the technology ourselves and then later on we decided why don't we this technology is so good

why don't we open it up to third party customers and that's how we went into the cloud business >> so I'm going to come back to the open-source strategy uh and we had a

conversation last week about this but today's theme uh is broad and deep uh and is obviously very very important uh let me give a short introduction about,

you know, why we we picked this topic.

Um, last week when where when we had a conversation, the first thing that Joe told me is, you know, I'm a I'm not a good trade or macroeconomist. Uh, but

you got a degree from Yale, uh, major in economics. Uh, so I don't know how that

economics. Uh, so I don't know how that can be. And, you know, very quickly you

can be. And, you know, very quickly you convinced me that you're actually a very smart and, you know, uh, Saudi, uh, you know, economist, you know, may not be a macroeconomist. And then I explained to

macroeconomist. And then I explained to him that you know Edward Chan uh is you know one of the most uh influential economists and train in Hong Kong and train so many generations of great

students who have become very successful uh in the private sector and also in in the government. Uh so I said you know we

the government. Uh so I said you know we don't have a lot of leeway to adjust the theme. It has to be about China's

theme. It has to be about China's economic growth. Uh so we add the

economic growth. Uh so we add the technological uh drivers uh you know knowing that you know you uh invest a lot in uh technologies and obviously you know Alibaba has been doing great uh on

that front.

Why 10 years right uh you know in 10 years 2035 uh the communist party the Chinese government has targeted that to be the year uh to turn China to be a

mid-level developed economy. What does

it mean? I actually don't know. uh but

you know just imagine that you know we need China to have a GDP per capita around $30,000 US uh which is possible and interestingly uh you know between the meeting we had

last week and today uh the premier of China Liang uh gave a speech in Shanghai saying that in five years 2030 China should have around 24 trillion US

dollars in GDP. Uh so what does it mean?

It means that uh from now which is around 20 trillion uh US dollars GDP uh to grow to 24 trillion and you are calculating the math in your head right

now I can tell uh so that needs around five plus% normal GDP growth uh which is not impossible right so suppose you have four% real GDP growth plus one or 2%

inflation then you will get it uh in five years uh so it's not a dream it's totally feasible but to have 4% uh real GDP growth, we need a lot of innovation

and the innovation needs to be turned into productivity growth.

So here comes the general question for you. Okay. Uh what are the key or

you. Okay. Uh what are the key or influential features in China's national tech plans that you think will guarantee

that kind of success uh in the next five years or in the next 10 years?

>> Yeah. Well, well, I think uh this is a very topical question uh because China just published

the uh 15th five-year plan uh from the central committee and uh uh I I think uh some of you might have read

the whole plan. Um I read a summary of it. Uh but there's really two major

it. Uh but there's really two major takeaways from the five-year plan.

Number one, China wants to be continue to be a manufacturing powerhouse. Uh I

think the emphasis on the manufacturing economy which is part of the real economy uh is right there. That's what

the leadership in China has clearly stated. This is where where we want to

stated. This is where where we want to be. Um you know you compare China to the

be. Um you know you compare China to the rest of the world, consumption is actually a very small percentage of GDP.

uh less than 40%. Whereas in the United States consumption is a 70% of GDP right so China is actually making things China

is looking at GDP growth from production and to an extent exporting that production to the rest of the world. Uh

because China is uh I believe today and 10 20 years from now China will continue to be the manufacturing base for to

supply the rest of the world. Um

uh so that's that's number one. Number

two uh the plan says we want to become technology self-reliant.

Um I think this is very much both a a a the foresight of the leadership uh as well as a reaction uh to what's going on

with geopolitics where uh the United States and some of the European countries are restricting uh critical technology from uh China. So China

believes that we we have to develop our own technology which is China is already today very much well on the path of of doing that. Um now going back to the

doing that. Um now going back to the first goal of maintaining a manufacturing base uh if you look at the history of China how China has become a

wealthy country I said 800 uh dollars GDP per capita to 13,000 today and we'll get to 30,000 you know in in in the next

10 years uh uh the the the the path of wealth creation has been in production and making things and supplying that to the rest of the world. And I actually

think that this is um but but there's a lot of criticism around that. They say,

"Oh, China has excess capacity. They're

exporting uh excess capacity to the rest of the world as though that's a terrible thing." Well, if you think about it, did

thing." Well, if you think about it, did everybody criticize the German car industry for having excess capacity when Germans exported all their cars? I mean

definitionally excess capacity simply means you have production capacity that your domestic economy cannot absor absorb. Therefore you resort to exports

absorb. Therefore you resort to exports but the use of the word excess seems to be like a a dirty word but it's not. It

shouldn't be because how a country goes gets becomes wealthy uh is to make things and collect money from the rest of the world to make their own citizens

wealthy. And I and I truly believe that

wealthy. And I and I truly believe that uh continuing on this path of being a manufacturing center for the world and now high-tech manufacturing, not making

shoes or t-shirts, uh if we continue on that path, China will continue to grow its economy and the uh the citizens uh will continue to gain wealth and gain

disposable income and at some point consumption will come. uh you know today we we uh through the Alibaba platform we see a lot of consumption you know there

I give you a data point there are uh something like 56 million there's 56 million people on our platform uh uh

that are spending more than $6,000 US per year >> on Taba okay that's way more than the average

disposable income of Chinese citizens but but we already have the scale that many people that are spending that that that amount of money. So uh at some

point consumption will come. Uh but I think the leadership in China understands the the foundation to a uh

healthy economy uh growth and wealth creation uh stands with uh having a strong

manufacturing base and today it's high-tech manufacturing. So, China is

high-tech manufacturing. So, China is the best in the world when it comes to making electric vehicles, batteries, solar panels and you know all those

things uh that the rest of the world needs. H so um everyone talks about AI

needs. H so um everyone talks about AI and obviously China has been investing a lot in AI and the deepseek moment has

really shocked the world and I guess uh a more general question about uh the national tech agenda in China is again you know I ask you the secret source question for Alibaba now I'm

going to ask you the secret source question for China's technological policy how did they do it Right. I mean,

you know, there were export controls by foreign companies, foreign countries, uh, and, uh, China just 10 years ago was, you know, really doing simple manufacturing. And now, as you said,

manufacturing. And now, as you said, advanced manufacturing with different aspects of AI that appear to be uh, competitive and even challenging uh, to

the US in terms of their technological leadership. Uh so could you I mean may I

leadership. Uh so could you I mean may I push the question a little bit forward to ask you uh to focus a little bit on AI uh and you know what are sort of the secret source of the national policies

that propose promote that kind of growth.

Well uh obviously when you talk about national policy China is uh uh the the government has identified areas for investment for example in uh

semiconductors in semiconductor manufacturing process in equipment that makes se semiconductors all that I think that's all good but uh the part that I

focus on that I really thought was very interesting is uh a couple of months ago the state council came up with a uh a

sort of AI plan and Chinese people are very practical. It's very goal oriented.

very practical. It's very goal oriented.

The AI plan uh simply said by uh uh 2030 which is five years from now uh we should see 90% penetration of AI agents

and devices. That's what the state

and devices. That's what the state council said. So they basically said

council said. So they basically said here's the goal. will let the market figure it out. Whether the market is stateowned enterprises or private

entrepreneurs, they will figure out how to proliferate and make high penetration of AI in in China. And I think that's

that's really a great policy because all of us as we are we are all part of sort of the so-called AI race, right? The

race between China and US AI. Um uh at the end of the day uh you don't keep score by uh looking at you know how good

these large language models are. The

score is being kept by the adoption rate.

>> The more people that adopt AI the more society will benefit.

>> Uh so China's whole approach is the proliferation of AI and uh and I think that's a great policy. Mhm. So I

remember I talked to you last week about um the uniqueness of China's AI ecosystem. Uh and then uh you talked a

ecosystem. Uh and then uh you talked a lot about you know the talent pool, the infrastructure uh the fact that China has advanced manufacturing while a lot of advanced

economies don't have today. Uh as well as you know the ability to generate energy efficiently. So could you share

energy efficiently. So could you share with us you know with the audience about uh the comparative advantage of China in terms of you know becoming an AI superpower?

>> Yeah. Uh yeah. So right now I think the the way Americans want to define who's winning the AI race is purely by looking at how good the large language model is.

So one day is open AI, the next day it's anthropic. Uh and then you know the

anthropic. Uh and then you know the Alibaba Quinn model becomes uh by the way the Alibaba Quinn model just won uh a uh like a two-week contest of trading

cryptocurrencies and stocks.

>> Wow.

>> Uh they they asked uh something like 10 different models you know American models and Chinese models uh the Alibaba model actually be uh became the winner

of the whole thing and Deep Seek is second. Um,

second. Um, uh, by the way, huge amount of respect for Deep Seek, our our neighbor in Hanzo, they're they're doing incredible

work. So, um,

work. So, um, if you compare, so you know, we we don't look at the AI race according to the American definition. We look at the

American definition. We look at the entire stack of whether where China has the advantage. You start with energy. uh

the advantage. You start with energy. uh

China has an advantage in electricity generation and that's because 15 years ago uh the government had the foresight to invest massively in energy

transmission. uh when you generate

transmission. uh when you generate electricity in the north it has to be somehow it has to trans be transported to the south right and uh when you

generate electricity especially in clean energy where there's sun there's wind there's water not necessarily is where they they need the electricity so it has to be transmitted to somewhere else so

the state grid in China there's two grids right there's a north north and south uh they make 90% uh Sorry, $90

billion of capex annually. The United

States 30 billion only. So the United States is massively underinvesting in electricity transmission. And uh but China has been

transmission. And uh but China has been doing this for the last 15 years.

>> Uh so uh and and the result of that is China's uh uh installed base of electricity generation capacity is 2.6

times that of the United States.

And even better, the net additions to capacity that China is putting in uh is nine times that of the United States. So

so so China's growth in electricity capacity is much much faster than what's going on in in in in the US. And most of

the net ad increase is uh in uh uh clean energy, solar power.

>> Okay. Uh the whole the end result of all of this is that China's electricity on a uh per kilowatt hour basis is about 40%

cheaper than that of the United States.

So China has an energy advantage in AI because you know when you burn all these GPUs uh train large language models and run inference uh you're burning energy

lots of energy. The big difference between machines is machines eat a lot of energy but the brain operates on very low energy. Um so so that's the one

low energy. Um so so that's the one thing and then we look at uh how much it costs to build a data center. So

>> it's 60% cheaper to build data centers in China. Um this is before you buy the

in China. Um this is before you buy the uh the chips, the cheap GPUs and uh uh

and then you look at the the model development uh I you know actually think that the Chinese models are not very far

behind uh the United States.

>> Uh and there's a reason for that.

China has a lot of engineers and it it's the country that produced

the most STEM students every year and uh uh training you know you would think that

developing AI and training models is a very sort of highlevel research type exercise.

uh but a lot of the work is actually in the engineering.

>> You have to work on the system to make the system very efficient in training the model with hundreds of billions of parameters even a trillion parameters.

If if if the system is not efficient, it will cost you a lot of GPU resources.

So, China being uh lacking in GPUs actually creates an advantage of starvation. When you don't have a lot of

starvation. When you don't have a lot of resources, you are forced to innovate at the systems level and and this is where

China is strong and you know a lots of engineers uh talent globally. So very

interesting thing globally almost half of the uh AI scientists and researchers have had a degree from a Chinese university >> globally

>> globally whether they work in the US companies or they work in Chinese companies or >> anywhere globally. So what that means is you go to a a company in the US

uh uh many of many of them are ethnic Chinese >> and uh you know and and that's very and I just recently saw a a post a social

media post someone working at Meta which is Facebook is complaining that his this is not a non-Chinese person he's complaining that the AI team that he's

working in everybody is speaking Chinese and they're sharing ing ideas in Chinese he doesn't understand.

>> But they're so smart in creating all these uh you know AI tools. They should

be able to real time translate Chinese into any languages.

>> Yeah. But still you know in a sort of water cooler conversation where you sit down in the cafeteria it's like it's hard to you know capture everything right. So I mean so what what that means

right. So I mean so what what that means is a lot of the idea sharing and exchange is happening in Chinese

globally in AI. This is the first time Chinese language is an advantage. It has

it it had been a disadvantage for Chinese companies to expand overseas because when Alibaba goes to open up an office

in Italy or in Japan or in the US, the people that we hire locally uh they can't speak Chinese, so they so they they speak English. So our people

sitting in Hanzo have to communicate to them in our second language which is not ideal >> and and I think that's a huge hindrance

hindrance uh for Chinese companies who expand overseas but now knowing Chinese has become an advantage in the AI world and and that's very very interesting

right so anyway I've just listed a number of these sort of advantages that China has but uh the biggest advantage

is that I believe the approach that Chinese companies are take taking toward the large language models which is open-source

will uh accelerate uh the adoption of AI and will make uh will really make the prolifer uh really realize the

proliferation of AI that would benefit broader society.

>> Okay. And uh uh the reason open-source is so important is that uh it is cheap.

It actually doesn't cost anything to use open source models. Alibaba has our uh version of we publish many many versions in open source and we're available in

all the uh open source marketplaces in the United States around the world.

People can just take our model, download it and put it on their infrastructure or put there on put it on their notebook computer and start running AI >> at no cost.

>> Mhm.

>> Um so so the open-source approach is helping the proliferation of AI whereas in thei United States if you want to use AI you

got to pay open AI a lot of money uh to use AI. So the uh I think that's

use AI. So the uh I think that's ultimately the advantage of China uh because the winner is not about who has the best model. The winner is about who

could use it the best uh in their own industries in their own lives. Uh and

that's going to be in China.

So what is the fundamental reason behind the differences between you know the Chinese AI model

that emphasis emphasize on open source and the US model that is more private closed source with data and you know all

these models that are sold uh on market price. I mean is there a significant

price. I mean is there a significant difference between you know the way that companies compete in different countries or are there incentives again from the government that encourage them to be you

know more generous about you know their resources >> okay well let's say I'll give you an example uh you take uh uh uh some a middle eastern country let's say people

in Saudi Arabia uh they say well we want to develop AI and we want a our AI to be sovereign to meaning that it's it's solidly developed

AI. But of course, uh most countries in

AI. But of course, uh most countries in the world don't have the actual talent to develop their own sovereign AI.

>> So if they're choosing between using open AI through an API or just taking the Alibaba open source model, just

taking that and uh devel develop on top of it. uh I think the cost benefit is

of it. uh I think the cost benefit is clearly in favor of open open source and there's also another reason data privacy

if you are using open AI and uh doing further training on the model you're feeding your data into an API you have no idea it's a black hole you have no

idea where that data is going whereas if you work with open- source AI uh you can better control data privacy and you could set up your own private cloud to

store your data >> and uh so so that so globally as you know both public like governments and

also private enterprises look at which AI I should adopt uh I think they will lean toward uh developing open-source AI or developing on top of open source AI

>> certainly >> for cost reasons and for data privacy reasons >> certainly but uh let's take Alibaba as an example example, how do you guys make money by being so generous, right?

Allowing people to use your open source AI. You must be making money somewhere

AI. You must be making money somewhere else right?

>> Yeah. So, that is a great question. And

uh so we don't make money from AI. Uh

that's the answer. But no, no, we we we remember we run a cloud computing business.

So when you run models, uh you need to have cloud infrastructure.

And it's a very sophisticated infrastructure. It's not it it's not

infrastructure. It's not it it's not something that any company can just hire a few engineers to build.

>> Uh you need both the expertise in that infrastructure of running AI and also the scale >> uh because this is a scale game with uh

uh just like individually we don't build our own hotels. You go stay rent a hotel, you go stay in a hotel. So

because the hotel operators have scaled same thing as the data center business the the cloud business it's all about uh aggregating infrastructures uh and and

you you you as you have many many customers you have that operating leverage to to lower the uh unit econ unit cost of serving your customers. So

through our cloud service, if people are running AI and they happen to want to use Alibaba cloud, we have a whole suite

of products from storage to data management to security to networking uh to containers, which is a term that I

really don't understand anyway. I'll

just say it. Um and uh uh so so all these suite of products will help you run your AI more efficiently on our infrastructure and that's how we monetize.

>> Great. So so my last question before I turn to the Q&A uh from the iPad by the way sorry uh is uh there are a lot of students here uh in fact 80% of the

audience are students uh ranging from undergrads all the way to PhDs. Um and

Joe told me he's very excited about seeing so many students because he's used to seeing you know government officials and businessmen, investors and you know students uh you know not uh you

know some some people who he commonly see. So he's very happy to provide

see. So he's very happy to provide advices. Uh so what kind of skills you

advices. Uh so what kind of skills you think young people should get in preparation for the AI era or you know what majors they should uh

specialize in? Yeah, I think those are

specialize in? Yeah, I think those are two different questions like skill set and expertise in a subject matter.

There's those are two slightly different questions. Uh from a skill set

questions. Uh from a skill set standpoint, I still think uh you should learn uh number one, how to how to acquire

knowledge >> and number two develop analytical uh framework for analyzing information

uh coming to your own conclusions, right? And a number of uh things that

right? And a number of uh things that you could do to help you do that. uh

there's no one uh lesson or one thing that uh help you with uh uh improving your analytical capabilities.

Um uh for example, I I always still tell people that they should learn some kind of computer code. Uh it's like learning a foreign language. A foreign language is you you know you learn to communicate, you know, let's say in

Spanish with someone in Spain, French with someone in France. A computer

language is you're communicating with machine. You're telling the machine what

machine. You're telling the machine what you're instructing the machine what to do and there's a lot of logic behind you know that language how do you construct the right instruction to tell the

machine to do the right thing and that process itself is a thinking process uh so I still advise kids to learn coding

uh even though today with all these vibe coding tools you actually don't need to learn a computer code. You just use natural language to tell uh the tool how

to how to write. The purpose is not to act actually, you know, operate a machine. The purpose is going through

machine. The purpose is going through that thinking process. Uh I come from a legal and finance background. In

finance, what do people use?

Spreadsheets. I actually learn I tell my kids you should learn how to work a spreadsheet because constructing a formula in a spreadsheet and make it work. Uh you just type in one number and

work. Uh you just type in one number and it just you know the number just sort of calculates itself the formula calculates and then you have the results. It's a

beautiful thing and if you if you know how to work a really good spreadsheet u that's a that's that's a thing you know you're going through that thinking

process. So skill set wise I think uh

process. So skill set wise I think uh learn how to acquire knowledge, learn how learn how to analyze and think um and also an important skill is to ask

the right questions.

Um so um uh that's one thing. The other the other is sort of subject matter. Um

uh I I I I have been telling kids, young people, uh two subject matters that they should study. Uh one is data science. Uh

should study. Uh one is data science. Uh

it's a fancy term for statistics. Used

to be called statistics. Now people call data science. Uh because in the future

data science. Uh because in the future we're going to see data explosion. The

more digitized the world uh the more data uh uh you will acquire or the company will acquire and understanding

how to manage that uh and analyze data is very important. Now having done the data side you wanted to touch upon the human side

of things. So study of psychology is

of things. So study of psychology is important. uh psychology and biology

important. uh psychology and biology helps you understand how the human brain works. I still think as I said it is

works. I still think as I said it is still the most efficient energy efficient machine there is and understanding how the brain works is quite important.

>> Uh a third thing is uh just it just came up uh uh I think a lot of kids today are uh not learning computer science but

instead they're learning uh material science. uh in the future you know it's

science. uh in the future you know it's the world is you know you is being dominated by bits but in the future what

makes the bits move faster is going to be atoms uh know understanding how the atoms work is is going to be uh quite important you know people make semiconductors there's going to be a lot

of innovation in the semiconductor uh space so uh uh I think material science will be an interesting uh thing to learn >> great uh basically material science,

cognitive science, data science and we still need to learn how to code not because we are needed but we need to have logic uh in order to understand what AI is doing >> right

>> to us. Uh so I think that's a very good set of uh recommendation.

>> Uh so Joe actually has a very tight schedule and I know there are over a thousand people here. Uh so today we have a very special arrangement. Uh

there was a QR code uh for some of you uh to scan to ask questions, but it may be already too late because I already received 10 questions here. Uh so uh you don't need to come out to the microphone because there's none. Uh so I'm just I'm

just going to pick the best questions.

Uh some of them are, you know, a bit uh interesting, but don't blame me for asking them. Uh if you don't feel

asking them. Uh if you don't feel comfortable, don't answer them. But I'm

pretty sure you have a way to deal with it. Uh so uh first uh a little bit of

it. Uh so uh first uh a little bit of promotion. Joe, do you know uh we

promotion. Joe, do you know uh we actually have a John's degree uh with Alibaba cloud computing um so it's not a degree sorry it's a course but you can

get credit uh in order to get a degree uh thank you very much for Alibaba's support uh there's a student from that course who asked a question uh Alibaba

group has been a driver of changes across industries what would be the next big change driven by cloud computing that would influence influence people's

behavior and businesses.

So I you know we see cloud computing as a utility and it is like electricity it's powering uh different activities different

technologies uh and the hottest area in cloud computing is obviously AI uh because cloud is powering uh the

usage uh both the training of AI models but also the usage which is the applications the inferencing of AI.

Um so I'll I'll mention probably the next sort of big transformation of in the in

AI is when people start to use AI not as just a

tool but as a friend.

uh you're uh right now AI seems to be more of a tool. Uh we we all want to use it to make ourselves more efficient, our company more efficient. AI is already

helping us to code, you know, so we don't have to have as many software engineers. Um but when does AI become

engineers. Um but when does AI become sort of your companion?

Uh that's when most you know what what if most people start to see AI just like it's another human being that's going to

really transform the world. It's going

to transform behavior.

Uh sometimes it's scary to think about that. Um but we uh I see that happening.

that. Um but we uh I see that happening.

Um >> so it's called ASI like artificial super intelligence. And this is something that

intelligence. And this is something that >> or or AGI artificial general intelligence when AI you know the the traditional Turing test the AI is

behaving or acting in a certain way that you can't tell if it's a human being or not.

>> Yeah. uh right? You can't tell you you you so it it uh when you're interacting with it, when you're doing a back and forth interaction,

uh AI is coming up with answers just like it's your friend.

>> Uh that is both exciting but also kind of scary.

>> Okay. So the second question is very interesting and I wanted to ask this question but the theme was set by you know the committee led by professor Chen.

But this question which is a career advice question uh many students and some mid-career people like me uh have been thinking about starting a business

or joining a startup. uh in the late 90s uh you had a very good job I was told in Hong Kong uh and then you went to HJO you met you know then your co-founder

Jackm uh why did you decide to give up a pretty lucrative salary to join a startup that may or may not have such a bright future you know what determined

uh your decision and you know for people who want to join a startup you know what should be the right moment and what are the critical uh considerations ations

that they should have.

>> Um, when when young people or or even old people like me make decisions, we're assessing risk and upside.

Uh, if you make a decision and things don't go your way, you're taking a risk.

But if things go well, uh, then what is the upside? So you can pretty much I

the upside? So you can pretty much I mean it's not exactly a mathematical thing but you can pretty much assess the the downside and the upside. When I

joined Alibaba I thought that the downside risk was very limited. Why?

Because I have a a good university degree. I went to law school. I have a

degree. I went to law school. I have a law degree and worst comes to worse I can always work as a lawyer. uh so the downside is limited but the upside is

you know you can't imagine it's unlimited and and so I was facing a asymmetrical risk situation just uh the

finance students here it's just like a call option right you know so um so the decision is very easy for me uh

asymmetrical riskreward and you always wanted to uh find those asymmetrical riskreward situations.

But I think uh you if you really try hard to find it, you may not be able to find the the opportunities come to you. So the most

important thing for the young people here is preparedness. You have to be prepared to seize that opportunity when it comes along. You don't know when it's

going to come along.

>> Yeah. So this question is about whether AI is the next internet bubble. Uh you know we have gone through

bubble. Uh you know we have gone through you know the early 2000 bubble booming and then burst. Uh and you know if you

pay attention on the stock prices of the Mic 7 uh they have been rising like crazy and I regreted so much uh for selling my NV Nvidia stocks uh too

early. Uh so you know we are not asking

early. Uh so you know we are not asking for stock market tips. Uh but do you think there's a bubble and if it is not why you think this time is different?

>> Yeah. Well there's a there there's a is it a there there's really two I two concepts of a bubble. There's a real bubble and then there's a financial market bubble. Uh I have no idea whether

market bubble. Uh I have no idea whether there is a financial market bubble. Whe

what? Because valuation of stocks is kind of an art you know. uh you you have to even though it's very you know there are established theories on how you

value a stock that it's uh you can assign a stock a 50 times P multiple because you think the growth rate is very very high does that make sense I

don't know uh there may be a financial market bubble relating to AI uh but the AI phenomenon is real uh so all the infrastructure people are building uh

all the development ment uh resources that go into models uh it's not going to go to waste because it's a real phenomenon. Mhm.

phenomenon. Mhm.

>> Uh just like internet uh in two in the year 2000 around March there was an internet bubble burst bursting uh it was a stock market uh bubble

bursting but the internet today the internet is here in fact the internet is even stronger today right so uh so the so the technology itself is not a bubble

>> so this question is very interesting you know our students are read this part you know they ask more interesting questions than uh so about management style in um you know managing different types of

companies right so you have your professional sports investment I don't know how involved you are in managing your basketball teams and uh also a

lacrosse team uh and also managing a tech company uh what are the similarities between managing the two different types of companies and what are these uh

dissimilarities uh and how important it is to build a team and a corporate culture. So I guess it's a very broad question about leadership management in at least two very different sectors that you have

businesses in.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Um

when when I bought the uh Brooklyn Nets, the NBA, people try to give me unsolicited advice. They say, "Oh, you

unsolicited advice. They say, "Oh, you know, professional sports is totally different. It it's you know you you're

different. It it's you know you you're used to business managing a company but in pro sports there are stars it takes a

different kind of approach to manage uh a professional sports team and Joe you really don't understand how it works so you have to entrust it to the people and then I found out that the people that

are involved in the sports world uh they don't know anything all they know is all they have relationships they have thick rolodex so they know who to call. They

have relationship with the players agents and you know all that. Uh now

what I'm seeing is managing a sports team the this the philosophies are converging

uh between uh business world and the professional sports world when it comes to good management. Number one you have to pick good people. Uh so in my uh

Brooklyn Nets organization, I have a a very good general manager that manage the basketball aspects. So which players to sign, trades, draft picks, and things

like that. That's the basketball part.

like that. That's the basketball part.

And then I have a CEO that manages the business part. That's selling tickets,

business part. That's selling tickets, selling sponsorships, marketing, fanbased development, things like that.

Uh same thing. I mean, you know, just like in in in in a business, uh you really have to rely on people and you really need to uh find people that are

better, more skilled, more talented and smarter than you are. Uh otherwise, you become the bottleneck to the growth of the organization.

Uh so in basketball, I am not an expert in basketball, right? Uh much less an expert in playing basketball. But so so there are a lot you know you want to

find the most expert people and then develop that trust with your management team.

>> So basically a visionary leader that motivates the team to move in the same direction at least uh for a long time.

Uh how about compensation? Do you have to pay your employees at Alibaba as much as you pay your NBA players?

>> Yes.

So >> yeah, I mean look, it it is uh uh uh you know the the uh this is what I

worry about is how do how do we uh retain talent? Uh good people, they're

retain talent? Uh good people, they're always in demand. There's always going to be competitors that will be calling them. So uh the developing a

them. So uh the developing a compensation uh philosophy and also you have to customize a lot of the compensation when

when it comes to you know very senior talent in the company. Um

it's uh I see my job as uh because every time you know we have a comp compensation committee off the board that's independent directors but the independent directors are not very

familiar with the operations of the company and with individuals in the company. So my job is to communicate how

company. So my job is to communicate how important our team is to our independent board and the comp committee so that I can convince them

to pay them a lot of money because they're worth it.

>> Great. Uh so we have a few minutes left.

Uh I guess let me ask you an easy question for you and you know in two minutes can you tell us a little bit about what's Alibaba's AI strategy? What

are you guys focusing on right now and what's the next step without revealing too much trade secret obviously?

>> No our our AI strategy is very simple.

Uh number one we do both large language model and cloud so that uh we can make money uh on the cloud piece on inf

providing the infrastructure uh for for AI and for the digital age. Uh and then on the model we open source it so that it more people adopt it. It's pretty

simple. That's the strategy.

>> Well, how do you know it's so simple? I

wish uh you know I know how to run Alibaba. um and you guys are really the

Alibaba. um and you guys are really the dominant player uh in that field although you didn't say that. Uh I would like to conclude but usually uh for the tradition of this uh lecture series I

will invite professor Edward Chan to give a concluding remark. Um and uh thank you Mr. Joe Thai and Professor

Tang. and please remain seated on stage.

Tang. and please remain seated on stage.

>> Thank you.

Um, thank you very much, Mr. Chai for coming to honor this occasion.

Uh, your presentation was so clear.

Actually, it needs no summary. But my

students may not be happy with it. They

told me if you don't make a summary they may not want to continue the lecture series. So I had better uh try my very

series. So I had better uh try my very best to sum up uh what you have said.

Now even you have a lot of insights even from the preamble questions I learn a lot that is I learned when you do things

don't just consider private benefits social and public benefits are important like you invest in basketball game is a

cultural exchange you know underpinning the whole business when you start Alibaba is not only just making money

but the e-commerce B2 B2B platform will also facilitate the smallcale you know merchants business. So it it it's really

merchants business. So it it it's really you know the story of success is not only yourself but also the private not

only but also the public benefits. But

the subject of today is technological drivers for China's economic growth in the coming 10 years. There was no

explicit question uh anyway but implicit in the dialogue it is very simple the major single most important driver

technological or financial or economic must be AI that is a driver for China's economic growth in the coming 10 years

or even longer from the dialogue I understand that there are four major factors factors to account for the

success of China's AI development. The

first factor is very determined national strategy top down right there's a very clear-cut

objective for example in five years time 90% proliferation of AI in China and

besides investing in infrastructure also inspiring private companies to do R&D so that's first one is national strategy

the second factor is electricity.

Electricity the foresight of China in providing ample supply of electricity is very important. Now no wonder in the

very important. Now no wonder in the past two day I was involved attending the uh financial the global financial leaders summit. The fund managers told

leaders summit. The fund managers told us don't just eye your investment in AI companies you should buy more energy

company shares. So that is the tips and

company shares. So that is the tips and that echoes exactly what Mr. Chai said today. So second factor is the foresight

today. So second factor is the foresight of China in the provision of electricity. The third factor accounting

electricity. The third factor accounting for China success is the supply of engineers and at the system level engineers are

very important in AI development. When I

was young in the old days, people told me in America if you have a problem, the first thing you think of is to find a lawyer. You were a lawyer before.

lawyer. You were a lawyer before.

But in Japan, when you have a problem, the first thing that you think of would be engineers, >> right?

>> Now it's not Japan, but China. So when

we have a problem, we think of engineers. So the third factor is the

engineers. So the third factor is the supply of engineers. The last factor, the four factor for China success is the

opensource language model adopted by most of China's AI firms including of course Alibaba. This opensource language

course Alibaba. This opensource language model is very important in my view uh to promote the further development of AI

because the open-source system enable other people to modify to improve on your model and therefore speeding up AI

development but also if you adopt the o AI open uh source model you also speed up the proliferation of AI into the

whole population. So these are the four

whole population. So these are the four major factors if I understand accounting for China success. So China has a very

bright future in AI and I'm sure in a in a not too long long future China will overtake the United States in AI development. I hope that is your

development. I hope that is your conclusion.

>> Thank you. Thank you.

>> Thank you Professor Chen. Please remain

on stage for souvenir presentation and some group photos.

>> Now, may we invite Mr. Tai to receive the souvenir and take a photo with Professor Chen, please. Mr. Tai, please.

Thank you, Mr. Tai and Professor Chen.

May we now also invite Dean Thai, Professor Tang, and the executive committee members of the Edward KY Chen Distinguished Lecture, including Mr.

Hing Wang Bong, Professor Patrick Nip, Professor Bernardet Troy, Mr. Adrien Lee, and Mr. Anthony Lung to take a

photo together, please. Heat. Heat.

Heat. Heat.

This is the end of tonight's lecture.

Thank you once again for joining us.

>> Have a great evening and see you all next year.