AMA on Training Materials, Hiring, and Portfolio Management

Okay, 11:01. Let's get going. If there's

a problem, uh, somebody put in a message if you can't hear me or anything like that. So, before I start, I kind of I've

that. So, before I start, I kind of I've been learning a lot about, uh, training, learning, and teaching recently. And,

um, one of the problems you have to solve for when you're teaching is most teachers, they teach the way they learn something right?

And that's a big problem um because guess what? Not everybody has the same

guess what? Not everybody has the same learning style. Um so instead of

learning style. Um so instead of reaching, you know, everybody in the audience, you're actually only reaching

25%. Now there are four learning

25%. Now there are four learning styles. Okay, you have the why

styles. Okay, you have the why people. They always need to know why am

people. They always need to know why am I learning this? You know, so you have to spend time actually almost motivating, convincing

them this is why you need to do this.

You have the what people. The what

people are like, who gives a [ __ ] about the why? I know about the why already. I

the why? I know about the why already. I

know why I'm doing this. I just need to know what. Okay. Then you have the how

what. Okay. Then you have the how people. And these are the people,

people. And these are the people, usually the majority of people in the investment business. Actually, they're

investment business. Actually, they're the procedures. Give me a process. I

the procedures. Give me a process. I

need to know a procedure, a process, uh, uh, a checklist of doing things. And

then you have the what if people. These

people are like, look, I know the why. I

know the what, I know the how, but if this shows up, what do I do? Uh then so if ever I say something and you don't understand what

the hell I'm talking about, you might just be a different learning style. So

just ask the question, okay?

Um and by the way, I I I'm thankful for my mentors for having taught me how to teach. Um you know, teaching and

teach. Um you know, teaching and training is one of the most powerful things that you can do. and guys like Wyatt Woods, Evan Pagan, Michael

Moesson, uh are are are people that are some of the best investment teachers. Uh

Peter Kaufman, of course, my god uh perhaps the best business mentor alive uh and people that know him are lucky to

know him. Okay,

know him. Okay, so this morning uh well actually let me give some context. So, a few weeks ago, I sent out

context. So, a few weeks ago, I sent out one of my investment memos and uh uh a friend of mine sent it to a whole bunch of people without telling me

it's okay. It happens. And a guy reached

it's okay. It happens. And a guy reached out and said, "Hey, um we're actually dealing with one of the problems you write about the memo. You know, can you do some consulting work with us to

actually uh help us with this?" And I'm like, "I don't do consulting." He's

like, "Well, this is how much we pay."

And I was like, "Oh, uh I do do consulting." And

consulting." And um amazing guy by the way, very very smart.

Um and one of the things that came up was training materials, right? Um, so what training

materials, right? Um, so what training materials do you actually give to your

team so that they can actually get better at investing and make your partners, themselves, and you a lot of

money. that there's not enough time

money. that there's not enough time spent on curating and having a internal

process where you actually invest the time with your team on training them. Um Andy Grove wrote an amazing

them. Um Andy Grove wrote an amazing book called actually he wrote two amazing books, excuse me. One of them is uh only the paranoid survives which

everybody thinks about paranoia. It's

actually not. It's about strategic inflection points, must readad. Um, and the second is high

readad. Um, and the second is high output management, which is basically on how to be a leader manager. And one of the things he says is that as a business

owner, one hour spent training your people can have if you improve them 1% across the organization can have a

massive return on on time, right? And

there's a few things about training materials today that you have to solve for. Um, one of them is young guys don't

for. Um, one of them is young guys don't [ __ ] read anymore. Okay? I don't know what the hell has happened to you guys,

but you guys don't read. Um, and it's a shame. It's a real shame because there

shame. It's a real shame because there are milliondoll mistakes in a $10 book or sometimes a

book that you get for free on the internet that can either make you a fortune or prevent you from losing a

fortune. So you have to actually spend

fortune. So you have to actually spend the time reading. It's very important.

The second thing is um a lot of the training materials were actually designed for pre8 markets. So

what does that mean? He says as well the market actually changed after 2008. Before 2008 the market was a

2008. Before 2008 the market was a certain way. Post 2008, the market has

certain way. Post 2008, the market has changed in ways that that a lot of people have not adapted to because the training materials that they use were

all pre8 training materials that it was suitable for the environment before 2008.

Okay. Okay. The third problem uh uh well actually hold on let me spend a little bit of time. So before 2008

um quad funds were smaller, index funds were smaller, the pods were smaller. Post 2008, these are all materially

bigger and more levered. Before

levered. Before 2008, the research at the investment banks were actually pretty good. And

part of the reason is commission dollars were really big so they could afford to pay these guys. Post 2008 there's some really good stuff but it's actually gone

down in terms of quality. Uh there, you know, the the if you're lucky enough to read Bernstein stuff, yes, phenomenal.

Uh some of the guys and some of the other shops are also very very good, but most of it

is it's not that good. Okay. Before

2008, the internet and social media uh uh were non-existent, you know, or very very small. Uh post 2008, it's

ubiquitous. So, you have these

ubiquitous. So, you have these narratives that can start online and spread like wildf uh uh fire. Uh you

actually have to adapt to that, right?

So, so there are other differences but understanding pre8 markets and post08 markets is very very valuable and your

training material has to solve for that.

Okay. Um and then the third thing is um a lot of people they may use external things in their training

materials. Okay. But it's actually very

materials. Okay. But it's actually very useful as a as a investor to actually diagnose what your team needs and then

pick external material that helps solve for that or build it yourself. Okay. But

here's also why you need to have training materials.

Um, so you actually see when you're training your people like who actually is improving

with it, who actually is is getting better over time because you teach somebody something and then you watch how they evolve for the weeks or months

after that is have they actually taken what they've learned and the training materials and improved, you know? So, so

Jeff Bezos does this Bezos memo uh reading process and one of the sneaky advantages of that process is that so the process is simple. Okay, at the

beginning of a meeting uh everybody in the room reads a five to six page memo.

They have half an hour to read it and then they have couple hours discussions about it and you actually get to learn a lot, right? because somebody spent the

lot, right? because somebody spent the time to put into narrative, not a PowerPoint, because these guys don't like PowerPoints. And I agree with that.

like PowerPoints. And I agree with that.

Actually, we're big. We're we're memo culture. Um, and you read the memo, you

culture. Um, and you read the memo, you have discussion with it. But the sneaky part about it as a leader is weeks after

your team has read the memo, you actually get to see who learned from it and better yet, who changed their minds weeks later. So, somebody will come to

weeks later. So, somebody will come to to to Jeff after and be like, "Hey, remember that thing we were discussing?

I changed my mind on that and here's what I think now." And often it's a way better point of view after than what they had during the meeting. Well, guess

what? That's the guy that you pick to lead your uh your business unit because he's able to change his mind, right? So,

having a training process helps you with that.

It helps you find the power zone of the analyst. Often it's in training, right?

analyst. Often it's in training, right?

It's in practice that you see, wow, this kid is really good at shorts. He's

really good at turnarounds. He's really

good at growth stories. He's really good at bare battles. He's really, you know, and you're like, he's actually really good. Or one kid, uh, and I actually

good. Or one kid, uh, and I actually like guys like that a lot. is like he's not good at anything, but he's really good at helping others get better. I

actually know an analyst like that who's terrible analysts, but he's really really good at getting other people to be better. That's very valuable. Okay.

be better. That's very valuable. Okay.

Uh um Okay. Uh, and by the way, the while you're doing the training, that's actually um, uh, where you also see who the

teachers and the leaders of your team are. Because if there's one guy, he he's

are. Because if there's one guy, he he's not getting it. Who's the guy that's actually going to go to him afterwards and help him get it?

Okay. Training process that you have to do with the young guys today. Okay. The

same as the bezos mean memo writing process. If you give, let's say, a

process. If you give, let's say, a fivepage memo, everybody sits in the room for 30 minutes, they read it and then have discussion. Why do you

actually have them read it in the room?

Because the young guys today are all these ADD freaks, including this guy, by the way, because I'm talking a big game right now, but I have [ __ ] ADD, just like you young guys do, and you wouldn't

believe the [ __ ] I have to do to to get myself to focus. Okay. So, you have them do it and then you have a discussion about

it. Okay. Actually, uh we actually have

it. Okay. Actually, uh we actually have changed our minds about having interns do any work. If we have interns uh today, all we have them do is read

because they're never going to get another chance to actually do the kind of reading uh uh that you do because today there's too much stuff stealing uh

your attention. Okay. But let's say you

your attention. Okay. But let's say you know so that that's the process uh uh and then you observe

uh over time okay if you're doing it by yourself I really suggest you use these guys

earplugs okay take your phone preferably in the morning put it away put earplugs on a timer for for an hour 90 minutes

even If you do 25 minutes, read the memo. Okay. Now, when you after you've

memo. Okay. Now, when you after you've read the memo, it's very important that you adapt it to today's markets. Okay? Says, "What what about

markets. Okay? Says, "What what about this that I'm reading is applicable to today's market?" Usually, if you're reading

market?" Usually, if you're reading something that is evergreen, it's always going to be applicable to today's market. Um uh the second thing is what

market. Um uh the second thing is what can I use in this that makes me a better investor? And the way that you do that

investor? And the way that you do that is if you learn something, let's say from a memo, how can you take that and turn it into a checklist and a procedure? Always always use checklists.

procedure? Always always use checklists.

Um uh we're huge fans of it. you know, we we have them uh uh here. Um most

investors personalitywise are called structural creatives. They're not

structural creatives. They're not artists that can create from a blank canvas. They're actually people that

canvas. They're actually people that create within a structure of achievement like a checklist. It's like while you're reading a question that you get creative and then you go and and and it draws out

your creativity. So, always use

your creativity. So, always use checklists. And then next

checklists. And then next is how can you have a differentiated insight about what you just read. Okay.

All right. So, uh, by the way, you could write a whole memo on this, but now let me give you the what. Okay. What should

you read? Here are a few pieces. Anything by Michael

pieces. Anything by Michael Moes. Read it all. Literally, if I were

Moes. Read it all. Literally, if I were you, I would spend the next 90 days.

Every day, you wake up, you read one of his five to six page memos. They're

online. They're free. I still can't believe that kind of stuff is free out there, which is unbelievable. Uh, read

it, take notes, internalize it. Often at

the end, he has these uh notations. If

you're really interested in a topic, dig in. Um,

in. Um, uh two um, anything by Warren and Charlie, of course. Um, three, there's a piece by

course. Um, three, there's a piece by Zeke Hower called Investing in the Unknown and Unknowable. Must read. Uh, Charlie Ellis

Unknowable. Must read. Uh, Charlie Ellis wrote a piece called The Losers Game. Must read. Okay. In fact, there's

Game. Must read. Okay. In fact, there's if you read the losers game, there's very, you know, I don't want to like g

give uh give the the punchline, but there's an insight in there that the it's such a simple insight that if you actually think about how to incorporate

that insight, it can actually improve uh your competitive advantage. Okay. Um

Okay. So, so that's about uh training materials. If you have any more

materials. If you have any more questions on that, uh uh please please ask and then I'll pick that up in a little bit.

Okay. I want to talk about hiring.

Um now, it's unbelievable to me. I spend

a lot of time at certain business schools uh not only for learning but for recruiting and it's just like it's a great hub of talent and knowledge. So,

and I've spoken at a bunch um you can find that stuff online and uh there's no classes on

hiring at business schools. Isn't that incredible? It's

schools. Isn't that incredible? It's

literally one of the best investment skills ever, but yet no one really teaches. And I was uh

at a family office I used to work for an investor in um Tiger Tech it was called at the time. And I asked Chase Coleman, a young Chase Coleman. I said, "Hey, how

do you allocate your time?" And he said, "I spend 50% of my time on hiring."

Okay? And at the time it was such an insightful uh uh statement especially coming from a

very young investor it was qualitatively excellent. Um and if you think about

excellent. Um and if you think about it the secret sauce of an investment team is the talent. Stepping back a second.

dynamic range between an average analyst and really really good analysts isn't 2x. You know, I've stolen this

isn't 2x. You know, I've stolen this analogy from uh is it an analogy in Allegory? You know what I mean? From

Allegory? You know what I mean? From

Steve Jobs. He says, "Look, the average cab driver and the best cab driver in the world, maybe you're 2x better. Um uh

you get there 30% faster. He makes

double the money. He's a great conversationalist, so he makes more tips. Blah blah blah. The average

tips. Blah blah blah. The average

software engineer and the best software engineers isn't 2x, it's 50x. The average investment analyst and

50x. The average investment analyst and the great investment analysts, it's it's actually close to 50x in some cases, if not 100x. And guess what? The drivers of

not 100x. And guess what? The drivers of dynamic range have nothing to do with IQ. Yeah, it helps to be smart, but you

IQ. Yeah, it helps to be smart, but you can lose a lot of money with a very smart analyst, okay? Like seriously,

especially if they're very convincing.

Holy [ __ ] you can incinerate capital.

Okay, so what are the drivers of dynamic range? Very important to figure that

range? Very important to figure that out. Okay, the second thing is hiring

out. Okay, the second thing is hiring has four problems. It's expensive, it's time consuming, it's

competitive, and it's reflexive. And

actually, it's changed across pre8 markets and post08 markets. Um, uh,

today a lot of the pods go and literally interview from undergrad. Now, we have a problem with

undergrad. Now, we have a problem with hiring from undergrad. I think it's very rare that you have somebody I'm uh I'm in the process of interviewing somebody

who's undergrad right now who's very rare because despite not having a lot of reps, he's actually really good at handicapping uh businesses, but it's

rare. We tend to want to hire from

rare. We tend to want to hire from people that have seen reps. And part of the reason

reps. And part of the reason is our hiring tools are actually useful to picking up on the reps are not. Okay.

So, so part of of hiring is actually sourcing

talent that though is really good isn't actually being sourced by other hedge fund guys out there. Because again, you

remember the four problems. One of them is it's expensive to hire today. It's

kind of nuts what somebody will pay an investment analyst. Um uh and by the way

investment analyst. Um uh and by the way when you add the resources I mean it's incredible but it in in my opinion those

are actually perceived barriers to entry because the best analysts all they need is a 10K and a [ __ ] pencil. Seriously

some of the best analysts I know you give them a 10K and a pencil that's it.

They don't need anything else. Yahoo

Finance to maybe check quotes, okay? But

sit them in a room, couple hours, 10K in a pencil. And again, that's who I want

a pencil. And again, that's who I want you to be, okay? And I'll get to AI and to resources and all that stuff uh uh

after. Um, okay. But I'll teach you guys

after. Um, okay. But I'll teach you guys one of the best hiring tools if you're a manager. And again, none of the stuff

manager. And again, none of the stuff that I like to talk about is a pill, okay? It's not like you take a pill and

okay? It's not like you take a pill and then it's a hack. No, it's a process. It

takes work. The returns on that process are really big. But, you know, it's much better to give a procedure that is that diff that you have to execute and takes

time because most people even if they they were like, "Wow, that's the best thing I've ever heard." Almost no one's going to execute on it. And uh that's why you can share it uh because again it

boils down to the execution. And what it is is if you're a good hireer uh if you're good at hiring is the virtual

bench. Okay. The virtual bench

bench. Okay. The virtual bench is a list of people like you're an athletic team instead of having a bench that you can call immediately and put

them on the field if you're in the NFL.

It's a list of people that don't work for you that have been prevetted that you've tracked over time and when you are ready and you think they are

ready, you hire them. It's a tool that helps you solve

them. It's a tool that helps you solve for the four problems. Hiring is expensive. It's time

consuming. It's

competitive. And it's

uh [ __ ] excuse me, it's expensive, it's time consuming, it's competitive, and it's reflexive, right? By

right? By solving these four, the virtual bench helps you solve these four problems because when you really need it, you're scrambling to

hire somebody. You know, you're the the

hire somebody. You know, you're the the the mistakes that you can make are actually very expensive. By the way, what I mean by reflexive

uh is that a good hire can multiply your business and a bad hire can destroy your business way beyond the cost of what you

paid him. Um I the guys that came up

paid him. Um I the guys that came up with this virtual bench process are the Smart family uh Bradford and Jeffrey Smart. And they I think they say in one

Smart. And they I think they say in one of their books that a higher a hire can destroy value to the tune of two million

of 20x the salary in some cases. I've

seen that actually. I I I watched an analyst once uh lose $120 million for a PM in a year period. Um, and the PM was

like, "Well, you know," he told me this, and I think he realized, he's like, "Well, thank God I only paid him 80 grand." I'm like, "No, you paid him $120

grand." I'm like, "No, you paid him $120 million." Uh, uh, very, very different.

million." Uh, uh, very, very different.

Okay. So, uh, the virtual bench, here's how you do it. There's some people, they're just not ready to be to be, uh, hired. Okay? And what you do is you

hired. Okay? And what you do is you interview them. They go through your

interview them. They go through your process.

And then you put them on a list and then you and your team, whoever is really good at hiring in your team, you track them over time. I recommend weekly, some

people do monthly, but it's like, how's he doing? Okay, what's he working

doing? Okay, what's he working on? Can we collaborate with him on an

on? Can we collaborate with him on an idea? What can we send him that will add

idea? What can we send him that will add value to him? Okay, and then you track him. say say come bonus time is how do

him. say say come bonus time is how do you do last year you know and then over time once you've tracked that talent you're actually able to be like wow he's gotten really good and then you need him

it's like okay it's time to actually uh let's work together very important to have a virtual bench uh process okay

another thing I would recommend about hiring by the way is if you take uh the way that we cracked hiring because I was

busting ing my head against a wall all the time is we literally on a wall set up the hiring process and we put in

every step of the process. So, for

example, the request for a proposal, uh, the request, excuse me, the request for candidates, you know, that's the first step. You get a resume, that's the

step. You get a resume, that's the second step. You reply back to the

second step. You reply back to the resume, that's the third step. On and on and on. And then we

and on. And then we literally put in, how do we do it? How

do we know other teams do it? And then

we started interviewing people and be like, hey, how do you hire? And we and we started placing it. And then we we have a principle called the Astrotella principle where we said okay if you're

trying to make anything 10x better. You

have to use differentiated tools, differentiated assumptions and differentiated questions. And we started

differentiated questions. And we started asking different questions like hey everybody does this step almost towards the end. What if we did it at the

the end. What if we did it at the beginning and then boom we saw leverage.

Okay. But one of the things that came up is that the hiring process doesn't end when you make the an offer to the kid.

It actually ends 3 months after you've made the offer. It's very important to actually understand that. Um and and and a lot of mistakes are made because of

the assumption that the hiring ended when you made the kid the offer. So, so

I would leave with that. Okay. Third

thing I would discuss uh portfolio management.

Okay. It amazes me still that there are no good books on portfolio management out there. Uh not that I want to write

out there. Uh not that I want to write it. I have written extensively about it.

it. I have written extensively about it.

uh mostly for internal um and my friends that have read it all think maybe you should publish this. Uh no uh I see the torture that my writer friends go

through even though I enjoy having written. I think writing is torture for

written. I think writing is torture for me. Uh uh uh and you wouldn't believe

me. Uh uh uh and you wouldn't believe the stuff I have to get myself to do to write. Okay, but I'll make a few

write. Okay, but I'll make a few comments.

Do you know that most PMs destroy value position sizing? Most PMs destroy value with

sizing? Most PMs destroy value with exposure management and most PMs destroy value with trading. Okay, they actually

add more value stock selection wise.

Okay, except when it comes to shorts. I

I would say that short selling a lot of PMs destroy value on the short side. I

think shorting is for boomers like me.

Uh we actually enjoy it, but also it takes time to become good at the short side. Uh and you have to study

side. Uh and you have to study it. But I would make a few

it. But I would make a few comments. If most PMs are short value

comments. If most PMs are short value position sizing and you're a rookie PM, equal weight all your positions. If you have, let's say, 20

positions. If you have, let's say, 20 positions, 5% each, do that to get your sea

legs, okay? Don't don't try to to say,

legs, okay? Don't don't try to to say, "Okay, here are my top 10." Because most PMs don't don't actually know what drives stock

prices, okay? They usually use valuation

prices, okay? They usually use valuation and IR based irrased measure. That's

fine, but there are other things that drive stock prices. So, how do you what are the inputs that you use to know when you should size up or average down or

get out totally? And IRRa isn't necessarily the best. It's it's it's good, don't get me wrong, but there are other things that you can use as inputs.

The second thing is uh portfolio management is personality driven.

The kind of portfolio management style that you use is actually should be suited to your personality. When you

actually see the guys that do factor neutral or beta neutral that are really good at it, it's like, wow, he actually has that personality that would be good

at that. Some of it is also IQ, by the

at that. Some of it is also IQ, by the way, because I actually do believe you have to be a brainiac on the nerd patrol to be good at

uh factor neutral and beta neutral. Um

uh but you know, the the model I would recommend that you read about is the Jones model. Um and that's the model

Jones model. Um and that's the model that AW Jones came up with. It was then perfected by by Julian Robertson and and

a bunch of the tiger cubs and the tiger seeds and everybody has their own style to it, but Lee Aninsley has written extensively about about it. That should

be part of your training materials. By

the way, I recommend in your training materials to read the Maverick case.

It's a very important case. You can get it for 11 bucks at Harvard Business School. uh uh at uh in their case uh

School. uh uh at uh in their case uh department. Um okay. So so the Jones

department. Um okay. So so the Jones model, you know, basically says, you

know, and the this is pre8. You run 150 long, 100 short, 50 net, 250 gross with a long short ratio of

1.5. And a measure of hedging is your

1.5. And a measure of hedging is your long short ratio. A lot of people think that if you run let's say 150 that

you're hedged because you have 50 net but you're actually not because you you have a long short ratio of two right so

so it's helpful the other thing that I recommend in portfolio manage oh sorry let me go uh and talk about the Jones model

um even though you use leverage The shortselling takes down your market exposure. So if the market tanks, you're

exposure. So if the market tanks, you're usually hedged, right? And and what what AW

hedged, right? And and what what AW Jones used to say is that even though leverage is speculative in this case,

you're using it for conservative ends.

Right? The second thing about the Jones model is that really amplifies stock picking because you're using leverage.

If you're a bad stock picker, you're going to find out really quickly. Okay?

So, so if you're a good stock picker, you should find out. The other thing about it is it generally behaves in bare markets much better because what happens

is if you're really good at stock picking, as the market's going down, the fundamentals of your longs is better. So

it your longs are not going down as much as the market. Whereas if your stock picking on the short side is really good, your shorts are going down more than the market. So your long short

spread is actually uh uh tight and the Jones model also emphasizes certain uh aspects. So for

example, it captures really really well business improvement.

I think one of the geniuses of Julian Robertson if you studied him was the simplicity of his approach. He was long good companies and short bad

companies. That's it. So what would

companies. That's it. So what would happen if a company was really really a good company but he wanted to short it?

Okay that's the barrier to do that should be really really high. Right? So,

he didn't say, "I want to be long, cheap companies, short, expensive companies."

If you're a rookie and you try that approach, good luck because you're going to be faced with with what's called the beta mismatch because guess what? The

the beta is usually driven by your holders. The holders of a cheap company

holders. The holders of a cheap company are very different than the holders of an expensive company and they behave totally differently around events or

during the day-to-day and you can be beta mismatch and your your net exposure can can and your gross exposure can really murder you. So you have to be

very very careful about that. The one

thing I would recommend if you're going to be using the Jones model is not only to be long good companies and short bad companies, but you want to be long good

companies that are getting better, actually improving, and you want to be short bad companies that are actually getting worse. Of course, it's better if the

worse. Of course, it's better if the good companies are cheap and get deer over time. Of course,

it's better if the bad companies are expensive and getting cheaper over time.

You know, of course, uh uh this is to prevent all the value guys from having uh aneurysms um over what I'm saying.

Okay. So, we've touched upon three things. Um hiring, portfolio management,

things. Um hiring, portfolio management, and training materials. I think

um you know you can go very deeply in these things. Remember that our approach

these things. Remember that our approach to our content strategy is to actually share things that improve the setup of investing of an individual. You know

everybody's like this is how you pick stocks. H that's not useful. What is

stocks. H that's not useful. What is

this way that you set up structures, conditions, a network around you that will actually make you a

better investor? Okay, hope that was

better investor? Okay, hope that was helpful. Let's answer some questions.

helpful. Let's answer some questions.

Okay. All right. Best books on selling conservative options, fund management.

Um, okay. I don't recommend uh anyone using options. Um,

options can be very much the path to the poor house for the uninitiated. Uh, and even for people

uninitiated. Uh, and even for people that are highly initiated. Okay, this it takes experience. You have to study it.

takes experience. You have to study it.

And when you're doing options, you're competing against Jeff Yas at Saskuana. It's very bad for your

Saskuana. It's very bad for your self-esteem to compete against Jeff. Uh because not only is he smarter

Jeff. Uh because not only is he smarter than you, he's richer than you and better looking. Okay? You don't want to

better looking. Okay? You don't want to compete against guys like that. Okay? I

recommend as part of your training materials to read the Jeff Yas chapter in market wizards and see what he says there and

you're like that's the guy that if I buy or sell an option is literally out there picking me off you know by the way

having said that there are times when options get cheap okay and the way to think about an option is not by using the Greeks is think of them like a bookie

would what are the pot odds and what are the implied odds okay you have to understand options the history of them

to be able to use them well so I don't recommend using options okay the the the the is not uh something that you ever want to be like yeah you got to get long

no no no no learn how to pick stocks better you know then later on you can improve on the options Okay, best books on fund

management. The market wizards book.

management. The market wizards book.

Must read. Uh, start with the originals.

The Draken Miller chapter, the Cover chapter, the Steinhard chapter, the Jeff Yas chapter. Um,

Yas chapter. Um, uh, read reread them. Um, second, uh, More money than God by Sebastian

Malib. It's on the historical context of

Malib. It's on the historical context of the of the hedge fund business.

Sebastian spends years researching something. In fact,

his research was so good that other fund managers were finding out that he was researching them. So, they were reaching

researching them. So, they were reaching out to him to make sure that what he was going to write had their perspective. the end of the

perspective. the end of the book you have I recommend you read it on physical and I recommend you read it on Kindle. Uh I'm a nerd, okay? So I I

Kindle. Uh I'm a nerd, okay? So I I often have a physical copy of a book and a Kindle copy of a book. And the reason why you want to read it on Kindle is he has these

notations. You press it and it goes

notations. You press it and it goes towards the end of the book and he gives you context on the conversation that he was having. Very valuable. And in fact, a

having. Very valuable. And in fact, a lot of the secret to competitive advantage in the investment business are in that book. Okay. Now, let me step

back. Competitive advantage in the

back. Competitive advantage in the investment business is three things.

Analytical informational behavioral. Okay? So, whenever you're

behavioral. Okay? So, whenever you're reading anything and somebody says something, you're like, wait, if I did this, this would probably give me an edge. Is it analytical? Is it

edge. Is it analytical? Is it

informational? Is it behavioral? And by

behavioral I don't mean by my behavior or your behavior. I mean

by like how do you exploit the behavioral emotional psychological incentive uh or like structural things that happen

in marketplace that create bargains.

Okay. A lot of competitive advantage is in more money than God. I also recommend you read uh Reminiscence of a Stock

Operator and you reread it.

Um every book has a secret, every book has a flaw.

If I were you, I would read the annotated version of reminisence of a stock operator where

uh there's a interview by Paul to the Jones in the book where Paul actually talks about what he gets from that book.

Every time I read it, I learn but also in the annotation, it actually tells you, hey, here is what we think he was talking about. So, you get a lot of

talking about. So, you get a lot of historical context. So books on fund

historical context. So books on fund management are powerful if they give you historical context. Uh part of being a

historical context. Uh part of being a great analyst is always knowing the historical context of the field you're in, the historical context of a

management team that you're analyzing and the historical context of a business and the competitive landscape and ecosystem that it's in. You have to know that stuff. Uh that's what I would start

that stuff. Uh that's what I would start with.

Okay. All right. Am I routinely using AI and can you describe how? Good question.

Let me show you guys something and let me know if you can see it.

Okay, you might be able to hear it too and I'll be able to see if you can. All

can. All right, watch this.

20 or going a little fast in school.

Okay. 25 milesPH 135 All right. So, what did we just

All right. So, what did we just see? So, police officers have a camera.

see? So, police officers have a camera.

It takes a video, takes recording, and at the end of the

day, this AI program takes the video and the recording and actually writes a report on it.

Now, this is already here for investment management.

Um, and it's very very important to not only learn how to use these tools, but to learn the strengths and the

weaknesses of them. And stepping back a second, the dirty secret of AI is that it's been in the investment

business already since the '9s. In fact uh uh probably Renaissance

'9s. In fact uh uh probably Renaissance Technologies was the first to use artificial intelligence and the investment business you know probably

along with DE Shaw and then their ilk spread throughout the investment banks and so on. So but also in the

intelligence business so CIA MOSAD all that stuff AI has been in there also probably since the late 1980s. Okay.

Now, what's interesting about about it though is that the original AI tool was actually designed to play

back, which is a game that I happen to love. Um and one of my mentors wrote a

love. Um and one of my mentors wrote a book uh that is somewhere called uh learning from the machine where he was a

professional back player and went and played against uh Gerard Tosoro's TD Gam at IBM. It was actually IBM that built

at IBM. It was actually IBM that built it. Did I get that right? I think it's

it. Did I get that right? I think it's IBM.

Anyways, and my mentor was amazed because the machine actually had huge advantages. But guess

advantages. But guess what? TD Gam

what? TD Gam uh somebody came out with something better called Jellyfish, then something even better called Snowing, then

something even better called XG. And as

of now, I believe XG hasn't been dethroned. You can literally get it for

dethroned. You can literally get it for your phone. But to watch what AI did to

phone. But to watch what AI did to backmon and in many ways it wrecked the game because a lot of the romantic guys in back that thought it was some

mystical game that it was like luck and feeling and intuition and we throw the dice very softly. We throw the dice very hard. A lot of those guys realize, wow,

hard. A lot of those guys realize, wow, I'm actually a [ __ ] idiot. This is

actually a game of skill.

Okay. And then it did something to chess AI. Then it did something to to poker.

AI. Then it did something to to poker.

Then it did something to go. And now

it's doing something to investing. And

guess what? The same mistakes that people made using AI for all these different fields, they're making them with the investment business and AI,

too. Okay. So, it's important to

too. Okay. So, it's important to actually understand that. If you guys are trying to understand what's going to happen with

AI and investing, you have to read Tyler Cowan's Averages over. I mean, I recommend you read the whole thing, but

read, I believe, chapter five. It's

called our freestyle future where he discusses uh the insights that you can get from freestyle chess where it's a chess

tournament where there are human-only teams, machineonly teams and machine and human teams and who has the advantages.

Okay. Very important uh that you do that in terms of speaking about how we use it. A lot of that stuff is

it. A lot of that stuff is proprietary. Um

proprietary. Um um uh that's we could only share that with partners.

But something that I think could add value, uh, if you're younger, train yourself how to do analog

first before you use the AI tools, you know, because using the AI tools take away a lot of the powers of a

really good analyst. Excuse me. A really

good analyst usually can read something and then he makes leaps of judgment and logic and he also can read between the

lines. He also can visualize a business

lines. He also can visualize a business just by thinking about it and he usually has very very sick recall where he's like you know that reminds me of when I read

this. I believe that these AI tools take

this. I believe that these AI tools take away a lot of that. Okay. And I'll share with you an anecdote. Um, the other day

a friend of mine sends me a 40-page report. And that's usually what his firm

report. And that's usually what his firm does, by the way. These these amazing reports, like reading them as like sex.

This time I didn't have time to read it.

And I've been testing ODR uh uh OpenAI deep research and I put in the report in ODR and it gave me 12

points. my buddy calls me, we end up

points. my buddy calls me, we end up having an amazing 30, 40 minute uh pow-wow on the idea. We dialed it up, okay? Meaning, we

idea. We dialed it up, okay? Meaning, we

found the field research plan. We

figured out the qualitative aspects. We

we we we found the bull bear points and then we kind of already had a plan uh and a workflow of what to do to to really jack up the idea and figure it

out.

I don't tell him that I put in ODR though. But hold on. He's like, "Hey, by

though. But hold on. He's like, "Hey, by the way, that report you read, I use OD.R to write

OD.R to write it." I'm like, "Mikey, what do you

it." I'm like, "Mikey, what do you mean?" Like say, "Well, I used I gave

mean?" Like say, "Well, I used I gave ODR all our reports and I told it, here's a ticker. Write me a report according to this." And it went and did

it. Like, Michael, hold on. You use OD.R

it. Like, Michael, hold on. You use OD.R

to write this. I use OD.R are to read this. Who's doing the

this. Who's doing the work? You know,

work? You know, and now take that interaction and multiply it. There's going to be a lot of

it. There's going to be a lot of mistakes made because dudes are not doing the work properly. Okay? There's a

lot of value and slowness and sitting there with a 10K thinking about things. Uh, very important. Anyways, I

things. Uh, very important. Anyways, I

hope that's helpful. All right. Have you seen

helpful. All right. Have you seen transitions from tech into PE? What have

you found seen or common patterns there?

Especially for mid-career professionals.

I've seen a lot of it. Uh you can have a lot of advantages, especially uh if you know the tech. Most PE guys don't know the tech. It's actually

hilarious to actually uh see the PE guys. They're really good at, you know,

guys. They're really good at, you know, modeling, but they don't really understand the technology. You not only need to understand the technology, but understand the

customer. Is the tech actually solving

customer. Is the tech actually solving the pain points of the the customer? The

beauty of technology is that it lowers your cost and extends your reach right?

So understanding the tech and that that's something that you can bring in and you look at a at a business and you're like okay this is a product that can actually work. Um and then once you understand the tech you can also

understand the cost structure around it and where to yank out costs um uh to make the business more valuable uh and so on. I mean there there are other

so on. I mean there there are other advantages.

Um the the the problems you're going to have as a PE guy is how do you solve the sourcing problem? Sourcing has gotten

sourcing problem? Sourcing has gotten very very competitive. And a lot of PE is a project management problem rather than investment problem. You know, one of my problems with PE is that you can

do a lot of work and never close a deal.

Uh that always bothers me actually. Um

uh there are aspects of PE that I love.

Uh you learn a lot. You know, you have access to internal uh documents. You know, you you get to

documents. You know, you you get to control the incentives of management.

You can put governance structures and rituals and and that that drive culture, you know, things that we can't do on the

public side. Uh uh but yeah, uh there

public side. Uh uh but yeah, uh there are ways it's just worth studying.

Uh, Simon, we don't critique uh individual names only because uh we don't discuss individual names,

but I see some fairly high quality businesses on your list. I really really recommend people study New Bank. I I'm

not investment recommendation. We're not

in the investment recommendation business.

Uh uh it's a terrible business to be in.

We're in the fund management business and all of the businesses that you've listed are worth a study and some of

them are uh actually it's a very high quality that you put up. Um you know the there's a book on Amazon called Working Backwards must read chapter two and

working backwards on hiring. It's like sex for hiring.

hiring. It's like sex for hiring.

Um, sorry I can't be more helpful there. Any views on Fanny and Freddy

there. Any views on Fanny and Freddy released from conservatorship? Thoughts

on recent opinion of Aman Py Bessant?

Love Aman. Love PY. Love

Bessant. There is no way in hell I will ever give you an opinion on conservatorship of Fanny and Freddy.

It's not what we do. We don't give opinions.

Are you a member of the VIC? Uh, do you have any tips on what the committee prioritizer looks for specifically? I've

tried three times before, but I haven't cracked the code yet. You just need good ideas, Alex. You know, just work on your

ideas, Alex. You know, just work on your ideas. Um, you have to read the best Vic

ideas. Um, you have to read the best Vic ideas. I'm a Vic uh nut. I love reading

ideas. I'm a Vic uh nut. I love reading Vic. Um, but I'm also a memo uh reader.

Vic. Um, but I'm also a memo uh reader.

Every day I try to read one to two investment memos. Um, and I think I I've

investment memos. Um, and I think I I've written about this and it's important.

You need a a daily ritual where for 90 minutes you're feeding your competitive advantage. So, I have specific

advantage. So, I have specific competitive edges at what I do where not only am I good at it, but I try to get

better at it over time. And I have, thank God. Uh because you should have

thank God. Uh because you should have seen me when I started out. It was a it wasn't a catastrophe, but my Jesus, sometimes I look back at the [ __ ] I was doing, I'm like, "Oh my god, I fire me."

And thank you to all my mentors and people that believed in me for giving me capital. Okay, thank you. Um uh but what

capital. Okay, thank you. Um uh but what is your process? Here's mine. I read

three hedge fund letters. I read

110K. I go through the 13F of a fund manager that I admire. And I read one to two investment memos every day for 90

minutes. Uh it feeds my competitive

minutes. Uh it feeds my competitive advantages. What's your edge? What do

advantages. What's your edge? What do

you gravitate to in investing? How can

you feed that on a daily basis?

Uh, I definitely recommend you read Vic.

Um, I mean, by the way, so to crack Vic, you kind of need to know who founded Vic.

And to be like, uh, uh, I mean, for example, the founders of Vic wrote a book called You Can Be a Stock Market

Genius. Are you pitching ideas on Vic

Genius. Are you pitching ideas on Vic that fit that style? It doesn't have to be spin-offs, by the way, but are

you very valuable to actually go and just read that book? Okay. The other

thing is um are you pitching the heat? You know,

are you pitching really really high quality ideas? Are your ideas getting

quality ideas? Are your ideas getting better? You know the we have a a a thing

better? You know the we have a a a thing called idea discipline. If we read a memo and the memo is really

good. We spend time on that idea. We got

good. We spend time on that idea. We got

that from Barry Diller who used to pick uh movies on the script. He called it script discipline. If the script is

script discipline. If the script is really good, you do it. But

anyways, all right. I only have 50 more minutes. Okay.

minutes. Okay.

Do you incorporate till risk hedging into your portfolio? Um, not really.

There are times when maybe options might be really really cheap and we buy some, but again, no, that's what our net

exposure uh is actually for. Most uh uh tail risk uh I mean it's rare. We have

done it but it's rare. It's rare. you

you know that's why we have shorts. If

you're worried about tail risk, you should run with cash because you don't know but the cash is actually going to be uh like your margin of safety in your

portfolio. One thing uh by the way uh we

portfolio. One thing uh by the way uh we just we're writing a memo right now on families and

individuals that are able to keep wealth across generations.

Um it's really weird because the people that have written on it miss all sorts of stuff because mostly they are not that family. They're observing the

that family. They're observing the family. But one of the things which is

family. But one of the things which is really clear is that it's having cash when the market freaks out that really

matters, right? Not really. Investment

matters, right? Not really. Investment

acumen is literally having not only the financial fortitude, meaning you have cash when everybody is being fearful and you're looking at everything and you're like, "Look, I don't know what it's

worth, but it's four times earnings and this thing's going to be around in 10 years. So, you know, maybe it'll go down

years. So, you know, maybe it'll go down another 20%." But it doesn't matter

another 20%." But it doesn't matter because I have cash and I can buy it, right? So always having cash, always

right? So always having cash, always doing things to generate more cash and having cash is actually the the strength. You know, I I put out a tweet

strength. You know, I I put out a tweet on Buffett. His operating companies give

on Buffett. His operating companies give him the cash to buy more when the market freaks out. Most fund managers don't

freaks out. Most fund managers don't have that. When the market freaks out,

have that. When the market freaks out, very very few people are investing more money in their funds, right?

Hypothetical an undergrads a free summer ahead. What should his daily schedule

ahead. What should his daily schedule look like for those nine days to become read uh and John Rui in your case spend time with me pal? You made a comment before the

pal? You made a comment before the generalists tend to perform better in specialists. Could you expand on that?

specialists. Could you expand on that?

Yes. So the

specialists tend to know a lot of details about their space which are important but they tend to be really bad at the really good business

stuff right uh competitive strategy bargaining power you know having crosset insights uh understanding the customer when you

speak to a specialist He sometimes likes to show you how smart he is because he knows words you don't and you're like uh what does that mean? And he tells you and you're like okay yeah there are certain sectors I definitely don't

recommend generalists you know a buddy of mine he calls a certain sector where generalists go to die and it's hilarious uh because a few people are experiencing

that right now. Um so uh the other thing is a specialist when his sector becomes overvalued there's nothing for him to do. So he's constantly pitching you

do. So he's constantly pitching you ideas. He's like oh it's not that

ideas. He's like oh it's not that valuable it it's not that cheap but you as a PM you actually have to know that his sector is overvalued and and

actually underallocate to that. We

prefer generalist. Generalists also have crossasset networks rather than specialists that have you know a network only within

their space. Okay. So we know a few

their space. Okay. So we know a few people for example that have only focused on financials and they have a hard time going to do anything else because they don't have the historical

context of having done uh other things.

And then the other part about uh being a sector specialist, it hasn't escaped the pods that it's easier to manage the sector specialist guys and replace them

than to replace the generalist guys, right? And also to motivate and

guys, right? And also to motivate and manage generalist guys, you know. So,

you know, you I if you if you look at the guys that run the center books and side pods, they tend to be more generalist. you know, you've seen more

generalist. you know, you've seen more patterns and you can recognize threats and opportunities better. I should

probably write something about that. Um,

because I don't think I I just explained that correctly. Only 10 more

correctly. Only 10 more minutes. All right. Good question. What

minutes. All right. Good question. What

are the most creative approaches to driving dynamic range that you've seen analysts take up on their own initiative? Your network. Expand your

initiative? Your network. Expand your

network. Find mentors. Uh we're we're human chimpanzees, okay? Which means

monkey see monkey do. Much better to have a lot of smart

do. Much better to have a lot of smart monkeys about you and then you imitate them. Very important to expand your

them. Very important to expand your network. Remember the currency of our

network. Remember the currency of our business is ideas. You have a great idea, call the smartest PM you know, pitch it to him, get his reaction. Okay? Over time, you'll get

reaction. Okay? Over time, you'll get better. And over time, if you're

better. And over time, if you're pitching him the heat, he'll call you and pitch you the heat.

Right. Case study on Vanguard is some interesting narrative on that issue.

Great point, uh, Thaker. Uh, I like it.

Thank you. You always need good shorts. Okay.

you. You always need good shorts. Okay.

Uh, one thing about um, uh, great short selling is short bad businesses. You know, such if it's a

businesses. You know, such if it's a good business, don't short it. Okay? The

the the I've saved a lot of money in my career where I look at something, I'm like, "Yeah, it's a really good business, you know, but it's overvalued.

I'm going to go short it." Just don't do that.

it." Just don't do that.

Find already a shitty business that got pumped up for some reason and you're like, "Wow, that's not a really good business." Apply traditional competitive

business." Apply traditional competitive strategy analysis to it. Okay? Uh

bargaining power. Um we like breached moes. So if a business has a moat and

moes. So if a business has a moat and you can literally see the competitors like hitting the moat and breaching through short that. So should one look at trades such

that. So should one look at trades such as aggression or passivity when picking portfolio management styles? Uh

absolutely. It's helpful here to study the poker terminology on this. Uh the

tight aggressive investor tends to outperform. I think uh the loose

outperform. I think uh the loose aggressive guys, it's rare. I I do know some loose aggressive guys that are really really good, but what they do is

they use crawl, walk, run. So they

they're tight aggressive when they're crawling, meaning crawling to being up

7%. Then they loosen up a little bit

7%. Then they loosen up a little bit when they go from being up 7% to up 15%. And then when they're up 25%, it's

15%. And then when they're up 25%, it's like, holy [ __ ] they loosen up.

Um, I don't recommend that. I'm a tight aggressive guy. uh even when I played

aggressive guy. uh even when I played poker. Um there were times when I was

poker. Um there were times when I was younger where where I was a lag uh but I was under specific poker

playing situations and investing. You're

managing other people's money. Be tight.

Be tight.

Um analyst's job is to give us portfolio manager conviction. Nero always great

manager conviction. Nero always great questions. Does this relationship also

questions. Does this relationship also apply portfolio manager and the conviction with his portfolio management style?

Absolutely. Um

uh conviction is paramount. You have to to to be able to develop it develop it very fast and also to lose it very fast

when when things change. Very important

to study Stan Ducken Miller on that. uh

the the the level at which he he changes his mind. It's okay to change your mind.

his mind. It's okay to change your mind.

Okay.

One of the reasons why we don't recommend people pitching their ideas publicly is the

psychological aspects of having your word out there and being wrong makes it much harder for you to change your mind because you're afraid of of people being

like, "You were wrong." You know, so guys end up, "Who cares? You pitched it publicly. You were wrong. I was wrong

publicly. You were wrong. I was wrong yesterday." Okay. the there's one idea

yesterday." Okay. the there's one idea that's a very popular uh short right now. We looked at it, we actually think

now. We looked at it, we actually think it's a long and it's being literally attacked like you wouldn't believe. And

and even by friends of ours and we look at it and we don't we actually don't know. We've done the work. We don't know

know. We've done the work. We don't know if it's a long, we don't know if it's a short. We have no idea. Okay. Am I

short. We have no idea. Okay. Am I

right? Am I wrong on it? I I don't know.

I don't know. But we love it because we love bull bear battles. Uh, and we haven't developed conviction on it yet, but we we'll see. Okay. You spend time reading

see. Okay. You spend time reading investment memos and company specific notes? If so, which are your top shot

notes? If so, which are your top shot shops you trust the most? Uh, we can't disclose that and I don't think my friends would like us to disclose that

either.

Um, there are there are some historical stuff out there. You must read anything Aman puts out in the company. The level

of work that he does, you know, it's it's it's very very good. Um, if there are guys out there that have put out things

publicly, you know, they're worth reading.

Um, you know, I can't think of people, um, you know, Baron Capital puts out public stuff. We like to read their

public stuff. We like to read their stuff. We think it's very very good. You

stuff. We think it's very very good. You

know, any mutual fund or or outfit out there that puts out stuff publicly, you know, read it and over time decide, you know, if you've learned from it. By the

way, one of the signs that you're reading a good memo is, are you learning from the memo? You know, is the hair on the back

memo? You know, is the hair on the back of your your neck like it gives you the chills? You know, the for us it's uh

chills? You know, the for us it's uh it's one of the signs that we know we're going to make money is if we're learning. Okay. All right. I only have

learning. Okay. All right. I only have five minutes. Uh Ocean, I can't answer if we

minutes. Uh Ocean, I can't answer if we are long anything. Thanks for doing this. Have

anything. Thanks for doing this. Have

you considered writing a booking? Do you

often write to clarify your own thinking? Any advice to finding a

thinking? Any advice to finding a mentor? Uh find smart people.

mentor? Uh find smart people.

uh ask them questions uh learn from them anybody that will spend time with you you'll you'll your failure will be high but you'll do well then the diligent collecting your various content recommendation across your video do you

have a comprehensive list anywhere not really I haven't done structured analytical techniques for CIA training also must read yes must readad uh same

writers you know generally to learn analysis it's helpful to learn it from different fields it ends up that Every single intelligence outfit out there,

including the CIA, including DGSC and all the others, except for the Chinese, really, they've all written stuff about analysis. Go read

analysis. Go read it. It's if it's being used by

it. It's if it's being used by governments and deciding life or death, read it. Uh uh Rand Corp has a bunch of

read it. Uh uh Rand Corp has a bunch of amazing pieces, especially on strategy.

If you're trying to learn strategy in business, it's not just useful to read Michael Porter's competitive strategy or the economics of competitive strategy or

the seven powers or these books. How but

how does the military do do strategy?

How do basketball teams do strategy? How

does the NFL do strategy? You need those analogies. Very powerful. Met with a PM

analogies. Very powerful. Met with a PM on two separate occasions. What would

like to work for? How would you go about keeping in touch with his intent in mind? Okay. Uh, so this is gonna be the

mind? Okay. Uh, so this is gonna be the last question I answer. There's some

really good questions here, boys. Uh,

geez, I could, but I have to go to a meeting with the co where the co-CEO of Netflix is speaking. So, I only have four minutes. Uh, hold on. Let me see if

four minutes. Uh, hold on. Let me see if this is the best question to answer. S would like to work for who

answer. S would like to work for who would you go back keeping in touch with is Zack? Ping me after, pal. You and I

is Zack? Ping me after, pal. You and I know each other. Ping me and we'll talk about that.

Okay, Lucas, do you pay for any research content and what's your weekly reading content routine look like? I read like I said for 90 minutes

like? I read like I said for 90 minutes every day. There are sometime weeks if

every day. There are sometime weeks if I'm doing a learning project. So, I'm

doing a learning project uh right now on movie directors. Uh Christopher Nolan is a

directors. Uh Christopher Nolan is a god. Uh and you can learn a lot from

god. Uh and you can learn a lot from that guy. So, I'm reading a lot about

that guy. So, I'm reading a lot about that, but reading 90 minutes. We have a

uh a rule. We don't pay for research. We don't

research. We don't um it it's it's not I don't want my guys to be paying for something that they can

get for free. Okay. It's And part of it comes

free. Okay. It's And part of it comes from how I started. I had no resources, but that makes me creative and it makes me reach out to my

network. Okay? And in reaching out to

network. Okay? And in reaching out to your network, strategic benefits and strategic back products come from that where somebody's like, "Hey, you know, you're looking at that. You should look

at this, this, and that." And this, and this, and that ends up being the reason why you make money afterwards.

So one of the constraints that we put on our guys is we don't use research. So we

don't pay for anything. I can't you know I use my tech stack that I pay for is BMSAC ticker. It was started by a friend

BMSAC ticker. It was started by a friend of mine and and I love it and the cost benefit is just insane. And Finn Viz I

have a Bloomberg. I pay for it. I very

rarely use it.

Uh go figure.

Okay, Jen Rui, I'll I'll cover that question when you and I have our weekly session. Okay. What level of

session. Okay. What level of shamelessness is needed to build a great network? Do you have any examples how

network? Do you have any examples how you found your network and mentors? Last

question. You need a lot of shamelessness. You're going to get

shamelessness. You're going to get rejected a lot. Okay. Hounding somebody is often a

lot. Okay. Hounding somebody is often a really good approach. Don't forget that um people that have

gotten to be very very successful usually have done it with persistence and determination. You know,

in the old days, you guys are sending out resumes right now, 30 emails at a time, but back in the day, you had to print out a hundred resumes, mail them,

show up there, interview, you know, and that level of persistence is kind of lacking today, you know, and it's it's a game of numbers, you know, so you have

to keep persisting. The second thing is you have to follow the professor approach. There's a guy, Professor Raalo

approach. There's a guy, Professor Raalo at Colombia. He has an approach. She

at Colombia. He has an approach. She

says, "Look, if you're approaching a mentor, you write him a message. It has

three things in it. First thing, this is what I admire about you." Flattery goes a long way. Okay? Second paragraph, this

is what I can do for you. Third paragraph, this is what you

you. Third paragraph, this is what you can do for me. And then you always make the third paragraph smaller, meaning you your ask is smaller than what you can do

for him. Always approach a mentorship

for him. Always approach a mentorship with how do I add value to this guy?

Okay, you wouldn't believe sometimes by talking to a mentor and you're like look what are your fears and frustrations?

What are your wants and aspirations? And

you go and do research on how to solve that problem and you call him back and you say hey I met a guy that can actually help you solve that problem.

Okay, that's you have to add value.

People think too much in terms of extracting value. That's not valuable.

extracting value. That's not valuable.

Add value. Add value. Add value. Much

much more valuable. Okay. All

valuable. Okay. All

right. I hope that was useful. Um,

uh, differenti management team. These

are all great questions, guys. Uh, I

could spend hours on that, but I got to run. Um, uh, thanks for showing up. I'll

run. Um, uh, thanks for showing up. I'll

try to put this up on on on YouTube uh later. I hope it was

later. I hope it was valuable. Um I'll try to do these more

valuable. Um I'll try to do these more often. I I'm a I'm an extrovert, so I

often. I I'm a I'm an extrovert, so I often need to do this stuff. Uh and

again, great questions. Uh uh today I there's a bunch of guys here I know, but Lucas, all you guys, great question.

Okay. Uh, uh, JS, most important lesson I've learned this year, dude. So many.

Uh, I could do a whole pod about this, a whole AMA about this. So, we'll do it again another time. Thanks for showing up. I got to run.

up. I got to run.