Apple CEO Tim Cook on what it takes to run the world's largest company | Dua Lipa: At Your Service

[Music] Tim thank you it's so great to be here it's so great to have you here honestly it's it's so amazing to have you here at

home on my sofa and I love it it's beautiful thank you I um I have to say like before this interview I went on the

internet to see what apple is worth and it's astonishing um it's the biggest company in the world with a valuation of around

three trillion dollar and I guess that's just such like a it's an incredible figure just just in itself and I guess it's more than entire countries to to

kind of put it into perspective it's um it's about the same as the GDP of the UK or France and I understand that you're only

doing one interview while you're here in the UK and I just feel so so lucky and honored that you chose me in service 95 um to talk to and I'm just so delighted to have you here I'm so glad

you would spend time with me what I'm serious of course serious no this is this is really exciting because I'm really looking forward to just digging into like some of the issues that you're

looking into now and in the future and as well as like what you've learned about tech and life and Leadership in your 25 years at Apple like it's it's

incredible should we just get started absolutely absolutely raring to jum down um so it's not every day that I have like the CEO of the world's biggest

company in my living room um so I should probably take a little bit of advantage of that and get some tips um to help with my own work life balance and I was

wondering like what is the day-to-day running of a company like Apple and and take me a little bit through your day like day in the life of Tim Cook

from the moment you wake up to the very end of the day I get up really early I'm

an early bird like at 4 4 to 5 wow and I spend my first hour doing email and I'm

pretty religious about doing this I read emails from from a lot of customers and employees and the customers are telling me things

that they love about us or things that they want changed about us uh employees are giving me ideas uh but it's a way to stay grounded

in terms of what the community is feeling and I love it that's just amazing and then after so you do emails and then you go into the office and it's just more kind of well before I go into

the office I go work out okay and so emails working out working out I spend an hour in the gym uh usually doing strength training okay and I've got

somebody to really push me to do things I don't want to do and I I I do no work during that period of time at all I

never check my phone okay uh I'm just totally focused on working out and after doing that after showering Etc I go into

the office and I start working with people I love and it's a it's an incredible feeling to work with people that bring out the best in

you and that that fundamentally we all believe that 1 plus 1 equals three you know that that your idea plus my idea is

better than the individual ideas of their own I love that and and so things like that go on all day long and I'll I'll divide the day in terms of spending

time with product teams or spending time with marketing teams or spending time with the executive team and we're either handling uh issues of the day or or

hopefully our balance is more on working on future stuff and thinking about what's next it's just amazing um I mean I want to go back to the start a little

bit um because you grew up in a blue color family I did in smalltown Alabama and now you're heading the world's most valuable company I mean it's it's a pretty Incredible Journey that you've

been on um can you tell me a little bit about your upbringing and like how it set you up on this road it was really uh

a um Jagger Journey uh my my childhood I come from a very modest

background uh my mother worked in a pharmacy as a clerk and my father worked in a shipyard

and very bluecollar family uh lots of love little money uh was was sort of the the

childhood and they they really taught me the value of hard work and instilled in me at a extremely young

age uh that working could bring you uh great purpose and and be a be a key part of your life and I started actually with

a paper route when I was 13 throwing tossing papers and I would get up in the middle of the night uh to throw everybody's paper so that they could when they got up in the morning they

would have their newspaper and I then took various jobs from there whether it was uh flipping

hamburgers at the local Tasty Freeze uh and uh doing anything I could to make some amount of money because I really wanted to go to

college and you know my my father being in the ship building business was subject to layoffs uh in in that business was very

cyclical kind of business right and and so we would go through tougher times during the layoff periods and I I always wanted something better for myself more

of a job that was regular and that that you could depend on a on on an income stream with and so I wanted to go to college and and better myself and I wound up at

Auburn uh which is a public university in Alabama and I loved it yeah I loved it the uni experience was the University

experience was unbelievable I I went a little wild yeah of course and uh you have to you have to college you you have

to and the world just opened for me uh I was always curious but you get even more Curious in college because you can take so many different courses and and

challenge yourself in intellectual different ways and uh it was wonderful and then after that I started

my career at uh first at IBM and uh then went to uh graduate school at Duke and and and then

eventually made my way to Apple it's an incredible journey it's like I uh hearing you speak like I remember also when I was really young I think I always

wanted to have a job it was again like when I was 13 I was in school and I think my first job I had gone to a pharmacy nearby and a woman was selling

like I guess it was like the Swedish equivalent to like Avon or something at the time and I was like let me take this catalog and like sell products of the in my school so that was kind of like my

first job um and then it it it progressed from there but very early on I had like a dream that I always wanted to do music and that I wanted to be on stage and I wanted to

perform and I think I was probably like like 10 where I was like I really want to do this but I never really knew that it was even possible what was what was

your dream like was was you know being the the head of CEO like the head of Apple like something that you would have ever envisioned it's not

something I envisioned for myself to be totally honest with you I was in high school I wanted to be a musician and uh I learned how or kind of

learned how to play the trombone I was never any good at really but I wanted to be in a jazz band and I was in a marching band for a while and it it kind

of hit me that I was never going to be great at it okay that this was just not my calling and but I loved the I loved math

and sciences and so I decided to study Engineering in college and that's where I got my start was engineering and I was first focused on

Robotics and in the manufacturing lines and and and learning how to manufacture products okay and this was really cool to me because I love creating things

it's so um nice to just get to know you a bit more because I think it's fair to say that you know we know less about you than the

more let's say extroverted leaders of other big tech companies um what what kind of leader do you do you try to be I

try to be a really good one uh I try to be one that really deeply believes in collaboration uh because I I do deeply

believe that our ideas bouncing ideas off of one another that this creates a bigger idea than either one of us could

generate on our own and that when you can do this with larger groups of people not not totally large but but you know

several people that these ideas can be exponential in size and and magnitude and that it's unbelievable what you can

create with them whether it's creating products or creating marketing uh or whatever whatever you're working on to

together I really deeply believe this and so I try my leadership style is to try to get everyone to work together in that kind of way yeah like the yeah the

art of collaboration I think is is pretty is special like when Minds come together and create something really unique um there's a mythology around

your predecessor and the founder of Apple Steve Jobs is a great Visionary leader yes and I watched the the film called jobs like a a few years ago now

and he is a fascinating subject but at the same time when you joined Apple in 1998 the company was almost bankrupt

that's right and today as I said earlier it's worth about $3 trillion and around 90% of that came under your tenure um do you ever think that you

don't get enough credit no I I don't look at it like that at all to be honest uh

Steve was a original uh and I think only Steve could

have created Apple and we owe him a debt of gratitude and uh there's no doubt in my mind that uh if he were still alive

today the company would be doing outstanding and he would still be CEO uh and and so I don't I don't think

of it as a as a credit deal and plus I get to work with people that I love and that are unbelievable at doing what they

do and and so we we share the the the credit from the company I love that I think I think you're you're an incredible leader and I think in more

ways than one um when you publicly came out in 2014 you were the only openly gay CEO in the Fortune 500 and today nearly

10 years later that number has increased to four right so that's only four openly gay CEOs across 500

companies um first of all what the hell um like I feel like we've moved moved on further than this like why do

you think we're still not seeing equal representation at like the top levels of business I think there's still a glass

ceiling and not in every company I we've we've killed the glass ceiling we've shattered it in in apple and it and people that came before me I stood on

their shoulders and and we took it further and and further but I think in a large number of companies there's still a glass

ceiling uh it it's bizarre that it's like that uh my my own deep belief is that everybody should be

treated with dignity and respect yeah and if you start from that angle uh a lot of other problems kind of

go away and and never create themselves uh but I but I do think there's still a ceiling uh for not only

lgbtq but for women uh for people of color and uh we have more work to do definitely uh the

society definitely has more work to do in in many countries in the world and most countries in the world yeah I am I am quite interested in like the racial

diversity in business as well yes I checked earlier and it's also it's like currently eight black CEOs in the Fortune 500 and I I imagine that it must be quite important to you because you

grew up during the Civil Rights era in the US in the Deep South like do you have any Recollections from that time that continue to influence your approach to

equality today the oh yes I I remember when uh Dr King was

assassinated and this this was a extremely sad time because it was he

was a such a statue that you felt like he was taking the world in the direction it should

go and and it wasn't so clear who else was would follow him um that the same year

that he was assassin ated uh Bobby Kennedy was assassinated and this was in ' 68 and I was 8 years old at the time

and this was just the combination of these two assassinations were uh really weighed heavily on me as

a very very young person knowing that these two were pushing the human race where where it needed to go and it was a

very very sad time I guess we can't really talk about Apple without talking about the iPhone um and my first iPhone I think

was like a hand me- down from my dad oh really yeah and then and then I got my my first one like on contract I think it

was like the iPhone 6 or something that I um I got and I was so excited when I got it and and today it's like it's it's

it's an extension of my body you know I even have like the little dip in my finger from how much I use it um but I'm quite mindful you know when I use my

phone like I I you know I I use my phone because I work on it all the time but I try and be mindful and pick up a book um rather than use my phone especially like when I'm traveling or flying or whatever

but regardless of that I'm on my phone a lot I I guess I just kind of want your honest take on like do you think there's an excessive phone usage especially in

young people and if so like what can be what can be done about it I think there is an excessive use of the smartphone and including the iPhone and that's the

reason we came up with screen time honestly was we wanted we felt like the one of the most important things we could do was surface the amount that

you're spending sort of similar to what we do on the w which promotes your ability to move more

uh burn more calories stand more and but on the on the phone we we're looking at that from the opposite point of view and saying do you really want to spend five

hours a day on your phone or whatever the number might be yeah and also telling you what you're doing on it where you're spending your time uh we

also did things like uh surfacing how many notifications you get because sometimes it's not the amount of time but it's the

interruptions right and that what you mean like throughout the day that keep kind of checking it it's like a that's right yeah and I noticed when I remember

uh when I started using the tool before it was released the aha moment for me was how many notifications I was getting

in a day I was embarrassed by the number I was getting in a day and I quickly went and looked to see who's sending me all of these and I started cutting out

different notifications from different groups that I felt like you know at the end of the day I can catch up on this at the end of the day exactly I don't need to know at the moment when something is

happening yeah and so I I think screen time is important and of course for kids if you're a parent then setting some par parameters around where they're spending

time what apps they're using all of this becomes really important yeah and we make tools for all of these things yeah it's um it's interesting I made like a

little um change on on my phone where like if I get a notification my text like the text that I get doesn't come through it just says notification right and I think that helps because

immediately when you see the message it's hard to ignore right so when you just see that it says notification you're like all right I'll leave it for a second second and I'll I'll check it when um when I can essentially that's right so I think I think those

parameters are good especially for you know young children or teenagers who just like but I think it's good we I've always said if you're looking at your phone

more than you're looking in someone's eyes you're doing the wrong thing right you're doing the wrong thing and so you need to course correct yeah I think I

think that's really important I think that's really important important for sure um this year I feel like more than ever we've uh I don't know every time we

turn on the news there's kind of another like climate disaster yes um and I think we're all collectively really worried about the climate crisis in our respective Industries and I think

everyone's trying to figure out what the right thing to do is and how we can combat everything that's happening um and I was just wondering like what is

Apple's climate strategy and what do you think are the hardest problems to solve it's a great question uh we started running the company on 100% renewable

energy several years ago and but we realized this is not sufficient that we had to go focus on

our supply chain which is largely outside of our company right and the energy that it takes to recharge our products at the customer homes and and

offices and so we set an objective to take all of that cycle the whole product cycle to carbon neutral by 2030 where

all of our products are carbon neutral this is 20 years before the Paras aord and sorry carbon neutral is kind of like uh offsetting right the car well carbon

neutral is a combination of driving the carbon away totally and then whatever the residual amount is left to offset

that by uh planting forest or grasslands that pulls carbon from the atmosphere okay so if this a really good question so if you look at the uh Apple watch

certain models of the Apple watch that we just shipped week ago yeah uh they're carbon neutral now and it this happened seven years earlier than we had

initially thought we could do it okay and the way that we got there was it has a high degree of recycled material in it

and so we were in a position where we could stop pulling certain products from the earth which creates uh carbon

emissions uh we have numerous solar farms and wind farms on the renewable side yeah and then on the transportation We Shrunk our packaging

significantly so that we could ship more products and we took them out of the air and put them on the sea which is a much

lower carbon emission way of transp Transport yeah and uh this this got us to reduce the carbon footprint by almost

80% these combination of task and then the last 20% we offset with high carbon high quality uh offsets like planting forest and

grasslands and um I you know sometimes all the terminology can be a little bit confusing it can for me to try and like understand but okay so we have carbon

neutral and Net Zero and that's kind of like carbon neutral that's right but it includes also like greenhouse gases am I right I'm thinking that most people that

say carbon neutral mean that the carbon has been driven to the lowest amount currently possible and then the balance has been offset

okay some people use it in a different termin alra that's how we use it okay and that's different

to zero emissions entirely like is like is zero emissions where we're like where we're trying to get to yes like is that

Zer I presume that's the the goal for the planet like how do how do we do that when I think of zero emissions I think of no offsets okay when I think of Net

Zero I think of offsets included okay but is there a way to get to or are we just too late in it like is

there a way to get to zero emissions I I think over the the long Arc of time yes I think we have to believe that that's possible I think in the short term you

need some level of offsets to to get to carbon neutral okay um I also want to talk about because you had just mentioning the recyclable product that's

right um and I I I was while I was researching for this interview like I I came across some like I guess distressing articles about like young

kids mining Cobalt in the Democratic um Republic of Congo and I guess it's it's a complicated issue for like all tech companies but I guess what I was

wondering is my new iPhone 15 like can you guarantee that that the Cobalt that's in that phone has not been mined like using child labor in the DLC yes we

can because we we do two things well first of all I should back up and say our objective over time is to take nothing from the Earth to make our

products okay this is a big idea of not having to mine anything is to use all recycled material and to and today we're

using 100% recycled Cobalt in the watch and 100% recycled gold tin tungsten and other wear materials in the water

so we're really we're really proud of those yeah but for those products that we still do mine for some of our other

products we have an intense level of tracing in our supply chain all the way back to the mine and the smelter to make

sure that the that the labor used is not child labor okay and and I think we do a really good job of that okay amazing so

this is good this is like looking forward into the future with all the new products which is great and um while I was transferring my old phone into my new phone it also said that there's a

service for me to be able to recycle my old pH that's right yeah this is a great point to make because what we try to do

is uh we know people want to upgrade and get new phones and and so if you have a phone that's working we'll clean it up and resell that to someone else who

wants to buy used phone okay if you have a phone that's not working we will disassemble that uh product robotically and uh recycle the materials

and it will become part of the Recycled content of the new phone okay and so there's a closed loop process uh there that is that we've

worked on significantly to to make sure that we're reusing all of the uh old phones okay and this is like a service that I can go to the Apple Store let's

say send in my phone and can I and we'll give you money for it too okay so I could get a discount on my you can get a discount on the new phone that's right it acts as a kind of subsidy something

that I've been quite like obsessed with I guess in the tech sphere right um is AI yes and some days I feel like I've got a really good grasp on like the

potential of AI and other days I just haven't got a clue at all um I just feel like it's so complex but I think most experts can agree that like AI is

something that's going to completely change our world um and it's kind of almost like the in like the invention of the internet

and I guess you would seem in better position than most speculate like how that world is going to look like and I was just wondering what your thoughts

are on that I think the the first thing to know is that if you're an Apple customer today AI is in all of the

products that we produce in a in a very significant way we don't label it as such if you're uh composing a message or

an email on the phone you'll see predictive typing tries to predict your next word so you can quickly choose the word that's Ai and so AI is sort of

everywhere today what what has uh gathered people's imagination I think more recently is generative AI okay and

the use of large language models and uh and I I think this is an

area that is also uh can be lifechanging and it can be lifechanging in a good way because it can do things

like in in the future I don't mean necessarily today it can help diagnose a a problem that you're having from a from a health point of

view uh there's many many things that there's a limitless kind of number of things that AI can do uh unfortunately

it can also do not good things right and I know that those are things that I'm like more worried about because it seems like there's so many great things AI can do but then I think it also like poses

profound risks and like a threat to humanity and I'm like tell me AI is going to destroy the world you know yeah what is needed in with AI with this new

form of AI generative AI is some rules of the road some regulation around this and I think most are many governments around the world are now focused on this

and focused on how to do it and we're trying to help with that and we're we're one of the first ones that that say this

is needed that some regulation is needed uh for us we're we're very thoughtful and deliberate about how we approach

these things and so we think deeply about how people will use our products and if they can be used for nefarious reasons we don't go down those

paths so I guess I'm wondering like uh are our government's actually able to regulate AI or have we kind of gone

past that past that point it's a really good question I I think most governments are little behind

the curve today I think that's a sort of a fair assessment to to make but I think

they're quickly catching up I think the um the US the UK the

EU uh and several countries in Asia are quickly coming up to speed and I I do

think there will be some AI regulation in the next 12 to 18 months okay and so I'm I'm pretty confident that will happen yeah because I think it could be

a bit catastrophic if it goes Rogue and there's no um yeah we we need it controlling yeah we absolutely need it yeah it's it's a real like sign of the

times I guess the way that things are just completely rapidly changing and um with all the new products as well I mean when you think about it like the

smartphone has entirely changed the world and I guess the you know obviously the internet and now ai is going to completely change the world like what

product or like technology do you think is going to have a similar transformative impact like on in the future and and do you think it's going to be an apple invention we you know we

just launched in June uh The Vision Pro you can be sitting here in your living room and you

can have your virtual world overlying your physical world and all of a sudden you and I might be having this conversation and we

may want to reference something you could kind of pull it up in space and we could chat about it that's fascinating but you use your hands it's

not like you use your hands in your eyes oh you use your eyes as well in your eyes and so if you just look at something on Vision Pro uh you can

select it with your eyes and so that's fascinating and it it's so wild because it's people pick it

up like this you know just uh they can't believe how easy to use it is but we spent years

in in researching and developing this product to make it so simple to use that it works like your mind works if you

look at something you kind of expect it to do something and it does yeah that's it's fascina I mean how far do you think we are from like Tech

actually becoming part of um part of our bodies like do you think well in some ways we're there because the watch becomes a part of your body in a way

right and it's measuring all of these things that you're doing your movement your stand your exercise your heart uh it's looking for things like diseases

and so forth like aib that that you may have in alerting you before the symptoms would ever alert you and and so I think

wearable tech is has become an extension of your body now and as you mentioned earlier iPhone in in a lot of ways has become an extension of it's It's a complete extension of my body so that's

why I'm like I guess we're probably not so far away of um just it yeah it being it being a a part of us but I always wonder like do you think this is going

to improve The Human Condition I I think it must technology doesn't want to be good or bad it's in the hands of the

creator of whether it is is and you can bet that we're being very thoughtful and very deliberate on things that that we develop so our technology is for good

and that it's really enriching people's lives uh not distracting yeah amazing really really cool I mean I imagine there's so many people who are listening

to this interview who would love to work in the tech industry and I was wondering like what tips have you got and do you have to be able to code or if I had an

English degree like would I be able to like to work at Apple like what are some tips we hire people from all walks of life and people that uh have college

degrees people that don't uh people that code people that don't I do recommend coding for for everyone to learn because I think it's a

form of expressing yourself and and it's a global language and it's the only Global language that we all share is

coding and and so I I recommend it but we hire people that that don't know how to code and and we hire a lot of people that don't code on a daily basis that

that that do other things I think one of the the characteristics that I look for in people are collaboration that we talked about earlier can they really collaborate do they deeply believe that

1 plus 1 equals three important yeah uh I think curiosity is a is a trait that I love about people about people that ask

questions that are so curious about how things work how people think um all of the all of the wise and

how's questions uh I love people that are creative uh because we're looking for people that can see around the corner is

ultimately we want to create products that people can't live without but they didn't know they needed right and you kind of want to get ahead of the C and

kind of that's right that's right so all of these traits go into to I think making a a great team player um

I I can only imagine that you've done that you've done like pretty well financially at Apple yes um and and that

you've said that you intend to give away like a majority of your wealth that's right I guess Bill Gates has made a similar pledge and his big Vision was

like uh to end poverty and disease and what's the big Global challenge that you feel like you want to solve and how do

you plan to do it you know because of my background and uh equality is a big one and I I do deeply believe that everyone

should be treated with dignity and respect around the world and so I'll steer uh a lot of my resources

accordingly uh I also want to make sure that that people that were in a similar or are in a similar position to where I was where

you're from a a family with without uh significant means that you can go to school and because I I believe that

education is the great equalizer of people and and so I'll steer some of my money to scholarship funds as well to

make sure that kids in in in those areas can can do well and have have the opportunity that I had Franklin I'm imagining like a young Tim Cook growing

up in robertdale Alabama like are you satisfied with where you are right now I'm incredibly

humbled uh for where I am I feel privileged and I want to give back I I I want to help other people achieve the

same dream that that I've achieved uh I I didn't have a dream to be CEO of Apple it was beyond what I would have ever dreamed for

myself and uh but but it happened and I I want to make sure it can happen for other people as well I love that I mean you've been at

Apple for 25 years years yes like you planning to to be there for the next I don't know three four five years you planning on staying till 2050 and seeing

the environmental 2050 might be a stret you know like I don't know how long I'll be there

uh I I love it there and I can't Envision my life without being there yeah and so I'll be there for a while

okay okay cool so there's no like succession plan that you've got well we now we're a uh company that believes in

working on succession plans and so we have very detailed succession plans okay and because something that's unpredictable can always happen I can

step off the wrong curb tomorrow and uh hopefully that doesn't happen does it happen I pray that it doesn't but no are you able to say who's in line for

succession oh I can't say that but I but I would say I my job is to prepare several

people for the ability to succeed and I really want the person to come from within Apple the next CEO and

so that's my role is to make sure that there's several for the board to pick from okay amazing um well that's really that

that was amazing that was great I I love love talking to you about just all things life Leadership Tech um and I actually I love to end my conversations

with a A list okay and I read about your love of um national parks and I understand that you're a very Keen hiker

yes I'd love to hike so I was wondering what uh five national parks to visit in the US oh it's a tough list because there's

so many great ones but I would say yed which is sort of my local National Park in in a way it's so beautiful uh

the Grand Canyon beautiful uh Grand Teton uh Glacier okay and Zion okay so there's a

few I haven't been to and uh there're all so special and when you're out in them it reminds you of how small all of

us are relative to the Grandeur of Nature and it's it's sort of a a pallet

cleanser for the mind being out there and hiking and sweating and oh it's for me it's just

it's Inc incredibly meditative and I I love it yeah that sounds it sounds special I got to do more hiking and exploring and being a

bit more outdoorsy I think oh I I would highly recommend it and in uh in Europe this summer I went to the dolomites oh yeah and the dolomites were I it was

just jaw-dropping I just I was so excited about being there and the the hiking and the Via

fados are incredible to do uh I would highly recommend it I'm going to go back so cool yeah um and then my my next and

last list is we recently started a service 95 book club right and I love to ask my guests about their reading pile

right um can you share five books that have shaped you yes uh as a young uh student to Kill a Mocking

Bird uh and I think it's not just for young students but for all of us still um shoe dog oh yeah which was Phil

Knight's book and uh it's kind of meant to be a business book but it's a book on life I really like

that book it's really great yeah uh when breath becomes there uh was phenomenal uh malala's book I am

Malala uh I I love and I love malala's story and her passion around young girls

education and we work with her and the the work that she does is incredible and then I love reading biographies of Martin Luther King and Bobby Kennedy and

some of the great people that were pushing forward on civil rights amazing Yeah Tim thank you so much for your time and your generosity

this has just been such a fascinating and and Illuminating conversation and yeah it's I I think it's going to be amazing for all the listeners I think they're going to have a lot to to take

away from this so yeah thank you for having thank you so much for coming and being here in London and spending some time with me today thank thank you for having me it means the world to me and thanks for having me in your beautiful

home oh anytime maybe we can we can do this again sometime Absolutely I'll look forward to it perfect thank you so much thank you