Best of the Pod: She Built an AI Product Manager Bringing in Six Figures—As A Side Hustle

Chat PRD is a on demand chief product officer that helps you with your product work. It helped me write a PRD teams

work. It helped me write a PRD teams plan features for chat purity. So then I just click go and so it's going to go great. Here it is. Gives me a problem

great. Here it is. Gives me a problem statement, business goals, user personas, user experience, success metrics. I

think this looks great. I want to build this all in 3 weeks. So documents been saved. So if I click document save now I

saved. So if I click document save now I have it in a document format. We have

some of these AI features.

>> You did this all yourself. Like this is complicated. Document editors are hard

complicated. Document editors are hard to make.

>> Here's what is so fascinating. No,

they're not. Like I did this truly on a Sunday. Notion style editing in a day by

Sunday. Notion style editing in a day by myself while my kids were watching Aladdin.

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>> Claire, welcome to the show.

>> Hi, I'm so excited to be here.

>> I'm really excited to have you. So for

people who don't know, you are the chief product officer of Launch Darkly, a feature management and experimentation platform, and you are also the founder

of Chat PRD, which is an ondemand chief product officer that writes and improves your PRDs. Um, and we met at a sort of

your PRDs. Um, and we met at a sort of like angel investing retreat and I was like doing bits about AI and we just got into this like really great conversation. And I feel like you're

conversation. And I feel like you're you're kind of in this really interesting intersection of like you're you're leading um a business as uh as a chief product officer and then you're

also like building this chat PRD side hustle that is built with AI and uses AI and so you I think you just have so many like ideas going on in your brain about like what the future of this looks like.

Um and so I'm just super excited to have you on.

>> Yeah, I'm excited to be here. It's

something that I think about a lot and as I was preparing for this conversation, it's something that I took a moment and reflected I use a lot. So,

I'm excited to just share a little bit about what I think and what I'm building.

>> That's awesome. Um, so why don't you like give us a little bit of like a background on chat purity because that's the thing I'm like most interested in.

It seems so cool.

>> Yeah. So, um, you know, like all good workers, I'm trying to work, you know, maybe not like all good workers. I'm

trying to work myself out of work.

That's that's the ideal way to do things. And so um when chat GPT and some

things. And so um when chat GPT and some of these tools came out, I was all over it. Um it did not scare me. It felt like

it. Um it did not scare me. It felt like magic. And I spent a lot of time as an

magic. And I spent a lot of time as an executive leader. I lead product and

executive leader. I lead product and engineering organizations, many hundreds of people, pretty large responsibility.

>> Um but I still have, believe it or not, more than meetings and like hiring great people to do. I actually have to output work. And so um with the a calendar like

work. And so um with the a calendar like mine and the demands of a job like mine, anything that could be a help is is very welcome. So I started using chat GPT to

welcome. So I started using chat GPT to help me um basically write product strategies and product specs. We were a

fairly scallrappy team um at my previous company and occasionally I would uh ICPM or more technical products and so something would come up it would be pretty complex. it would span product

pretty complex. it would span product and engineering and I would raise my hand and say hey I'll write the spec for that I think I have a sense of what we need to do and there's this very specific example of us building a pretty

complex and custom um audit data audit tool and I said I raised my hand in the meeting I remember at 10 a.m. And then

by two I had this like full five-page spec and my team was like what just happened? How did you do that? Because

happened? How did you do that? Because

you've been in meetings all day. Like

what was that? And it was because I had over the course of of months, you know, sort of like prompted chat GPT into a a place where I could really work with it in a pretty rapid fashion to get high

quality outputs that wasn't just going to happen with just using um kind of plain chat GPT like GPT4 at the time, I think. So, when the GPT uh store came

think. So, when the GPT uh store came out, I thought, okay, I'm just going to like dropped my, you know, my joke is it is but it is just a prompt, but she's my prompt. And so, dropped my prompt into

prompt. And so, dropped my prompt into the GPT store. Um, got the like great name chat PRD, which I think is just it's good stuff. People love it. And

shared it with my team and I was like, you all can use this if you want to know how I do it. And they all loved it. And

so, I was just kind of joking around to my husband. And I said, "We should just

my husband. And I said, "We should just buy like we should just buy the domain on it. Of course, it's got to be.ai."

on it. Of course, it's got to be.ai."

So, you know, I spent my 60 bucks or whatever because there there's a premium on these AI domains and bought chat uh chat chatp.ai

and just put up a like a newsletter sign up form and a link to the GPT and so many people started using it. And um you know, still with the GPT store, I think it's an early early days. So, even

though I was getting a lot of use, there was no moni monetizing things. And I'm

sorry, I'm the kind of product person that needs to make money off the things that they build. So, over Thanksgiving last year, um, between, you know, like

hosting the kids and and doing stuff when they were napping, I like, you know, dusted off VS Code and I was like, I think we can I think we can build this. And so, I built it over the course

this. And so, I built it over the course of Thanksgiving week with my kids home while they're napped. we can talk about all the ways I used AI to make that really really easy. Um, and launched it

I think on November 28th, so she's she's six months old. Um, and just put like I don't know, it was like $2 a month. I

was like, I don't know, like who knows what somebody's going to pay here and people started buying. And then I started to add a little bit more features and raising the price and people started buying and now I have I

think 10,000 users on the app app um that I host. over 50,000 chats have been done on the GPT. Somewhere between 50 and 100 thousand because I think that's where they like bump you to the next the

next tier. Um, and I've started to build

next tier. Um, and I've started to build out a lot more than just chat features on the product. So, it's been really fun to build and I do I think I have 285

chat PRD chats in the last six months.

Um, so I use it a lot.

>> That's wild. There's so many things I want to dig into there, but I want to just like sort of summarize the like process that led you here because I think it's a sort of generalizable thing. I actually have I actually have

thing. I actually have I actually have something similar in my own life that I've done with this where it's like it seems like you you used it yourself and you built up a very complicated prompt

um that reflected like your worldview and your skills and and all the ways that and your process for like making PRDs. Actually, before I keep going, can

PRDs. Actually, before I keep going, can you define a PRD for people who don't know what it is?

>> Yeah, it's it's I I now say uh chat PRD is a on demand chief product officer that helps you with your product work because we've really expanded past PRDs, but a PRD is a product requirements

document. It's definitely

document. It's definitely a doc or a spec that defines the problem space that you're uh going after when you're building a new product. Kind of

what users want. If you have one user or multiple users of the product, what are their incentives? What do they want?

their incentives? What do they want?

What are their goals? what are their non- goals? Um, and then kind of details

non- goals? Um, and then kind of details out some of the features and capabilities you would need to make this meet the needs of those goals. And then

a lot of um, teams and companies use it also to outline things like tracking plans, security risks, technical considerations, marketing campaigns. So, it's sort of

marketing campaigns. So, it's sort of the source of truth for when you're building something new as a product, whether it's a very small feature or a brand new company, sort of um, the written record of what that's going to

be. Okay, that's great. So, so basically

be. Okay, that's great. So, so basically like in the process of of doing these yourself, you realize chatbt is really useful, you you create these prompts that help you build good PRDs. Um, and

then you realize like, oh, this is sort of like complicated for me to like prompt manually all the time. And then

you like start just like making a GBT and then you share it with your team.

Your team loves it and then you're you're sort of off to the races like, okay, I'll have it on the store. Maybe

I'll build my own version of it. Um, but

I think that that's that's the sort of like repeatable process that I think a lot of people are finding is off on your own explorations, make something awesome, make some awesome prompts, and then you can sort of like productize that.

>> Yeah. And I think the the key that we're not talking about is like how do you distribute it because unless you are maybe featured in the GPT store, which

can get you a distribution, you really like you own your own distribution for even the GPT store or an app. And so I was lucky enough to have um a good number of people who follow me for product content. So it was like right in

product content. So it was like right in in the wheelhouse of who might find it useful to use the product and then it creates that virtuous cycle of word of mouth distribution. But I do think

mouth distribution. But I do think distribution still is a challenge for anybody kind of going down this path.

>> Yeah, that makes total sense. Um, and so just like just to back up to sort of that the beginning of the story, like tell us about like what you were using it for initially, like what were the

sort of initial prompts that you were you were working on? Like what were the tasks that you like or the many tasks within making these documents that was actually helpful for you?

>> Yeah, so basically we have um a PRD template. So we have like every time

template. So we have like every time you're going to build something, here's what we just generally expect you to outline and write. And then as people write those then we have um at my old

company we call it PRDR product requirements document review meeting where we actually like debate uh both asynchronously in comments and then live sort of the the the thinking in this

document and then it becomes a source of truth for what to build. So we had this template and PMS including myself would you know once a week sit down and be like I got to pick up that next project

and sit down and start with a blank almost blank slate a template and go okay I got to write this whole thing out and they end up being somewhere between um a mini PRD would be just like a one page up to like seven 10 pages just

depending on the complexity of the product and a lot of times you're doing things like it it needs to have rules based access and like these very non-specific but functional requirements

need to be outlined and if you forget them then engineering goes off the rails and you get a product where you forget to build a whole bunch of table stakes features and so what I would do is I would paste it and I was like this is

our template this is like the type of company I'm working at and then just word vomit here's the product that I think we need to build and why and it

would scaffold out then all those sections combining the context of the template what I've said about the business kind of like high level what I've said about the product I want to build and the thing that really was the

aha moment for me was not that it could do that obviously could do that um it was that it thought of functional requirements I had I would have truly forgotten it and I think I'm pretty good I've been doing product for 20 years

like I am pretty good and when I was building this audit feature I was focused so much on the data we needed to ingest and how people needed to audit and then um when I was generating this

PRD via AI it said like you need filters and I was like of course I need filters like obviously I need filters and somebody probably in a meeting would have said Claire you need filters but I could have just but it put it in the

dock and it was just one of these moments where I was like oh it's a little buddy that I can have that can just like round out the the edges of my thinking make me a lot more efficient

and remind me of things even that I need to include where my fallible human brain fails me.

>> I love that. I think that's I think that's really common too. It's like um some of the stuff that you learn from it. It's not stuff that you wouldn't

it. It's not stuff that you wouldn't already know. It just like you might not

already know. It just like you might not have thought of it. It like finds the simple things that you're missing. And

that is sometimes so valuable especially if you're working alone like you're you have a team and stuff like that. But

like you know building chat chat PRD where you're it's like I think it's it's you and maybe one other person part time like it's sometimes hard to >> uh it's hard without a buddy to remember

that that stuff and and chat chat chat GBT is that. Um, I'm really curious like to get into like how you're using it.

Like do you want to show us some of your historical chat PRD chats?

>> Share my screen. Okay. So, this is this is chat PRD. And some of the the things that I think are really um unique compared to the GPT store is how one,

not only I've customized it, but you can actually customize it to yourself. So,

you can tell.

>> Wait, can I pause you? right here for one second. Like this is really

one second. Like this is really beautiful and like well built. Like how

is this how is this built?

>> Uh I did it. I mean this isn't magic. Uh

if anybody's building stuff right now I'm going to be like it's an nextJS app like mostly Tailwind. I have good taste.

I don't know. It's pretty I I think one of my other learnings here is it is so cheap and easy to build high quality web apps right now. And as somebody who's built web apps many times in their lives

and run very large engineering teams that build web apps, um it's actually not that hard to build something pretty phenomenal, you know, that's a database on a website. So, thank you. I

appreciate that. I I try to I try to put love in it. We can talk about how actually I think um building solo does increase quality and velocity in many ways because you're shortcircuiting the

loop between product, engineering, and design.

um in a way where like I think in a traditional team where you have multiple people playing that role you lose fidelity of kind of vision and so one of my one of my interesting ideas is with

something like chat PRD like plus a co-pilot or like a Devon do you actually collapse and focus the ability of one person to build something and does the quality actually go up because you're

not negotiating these you're you're not uh deciding by committee you're deciding kind of like one person Thank you.

>> Yeah, having everything integrated, it's the same thing with like the multimodal models. It's like a lot of the stuff

models. It's like a lot of the stuff gets better when you integrate the like the the image recognition and the video into the intelligence portion. And it's

like yeah, like integrating development, design, and product thinking into like one person is going to like it's you're you faster cycle. So you're it's going to be it's going to be higher quality. I

think that's really cool. And did you use chip to code this or did you code it by hand? Of

by hand? Of >> course I used chip.

I mean, look, I could write some code, but it's much easier to say, I mean, I take a PRD from chat PRD and I'm like, hey, this is this is the component I need to build. Can you just scaffold it

out for me? And then I can play with the edges on design or functionality and >> um that kind of stuff. So, of course.

>> Okay, that's great. Okay, so let's go back to before I interrupted you. So,

like you're you're in your in settings.

>> Yeah. So, you can customize your profile. So, one, you can tell it a lot

profile. So, one, you can tell it a lot about yourself, who you are, and what you do. It remembers that. So, it has

you do. It remembers that. So, it has memory. So unlike you know well I know

memory. So unlike you know well I know chat has memory now but a lot of times previously when I was building this I'd be like tell me about your role in product you know tell me a little bit more about your company and so we're

just stabilizing that information >> and then as I said most companies have a a template um I have a pretty good one that I think I use as a default obviously because it's mine but you can

also add your own template of PRD so say you're like um you have a TLDDR which I always do short summary of the product

doc and then you have functional requirements are super important and you know put functional requirements in XYZ format whatever it is

>> um you can actually use a custom template here this is something that's just really useful for people as they're using this in the business context to get consistency and again not have to manage that

>> that prompting um but what I use it a lot for are two things I use it to well maybe I use it for three things. I I

personally use it for writing PRDs for ideas I already have or brainstorming features on the road map and then as a product leader I use this help me

improve an existing PRD to coach my team on how they can improve their PRDs. Um

so those are sort of three things but let's just talk about help me write a PRD. So one of the things that I've been

PRD. So one of the things that I've been working on is a teams feature for chat PRD. So, right now, chat pierd is sort

PRD. So, right now, chat pierd is sort of like in single player mode where individual PMs can use it, but we've gotten a lot of feedback that people want a um teams version of chat purity.

So, I'm going to say help me write a pd.

I'm going to be really lazy and say teams um plan features for chat purity.

Oh.

>> Okay. So then I just click go.

And um >> do you usually do you normally do that level of detail or are you normally like writing more stuff when you're actually >> usually I'm pretty lazy. I usually do

>> because again I've prompted chat PRD to like ask for stuff um if it doesn't have enough information to do a good job. So

you can see it's like okay well that's great but what do you want? And so say >> I've gotten a lot of feedback that teams

want to use chat pd together. They have a few priorities,

together. They have a few priorities, shared billing, shared templates and stored um company

context knowledge, >> sharing chats and doc uh documents with each other.

Uh if you have other ideas, please share them. I think we can grow to a hundred

them. I think we can grow to a hundred teams accounts by the end of the quarter.

It's like very very high level.

>> Um and so it's going to go great. Here

it is. And so gives me a problem statement, business goals, user personas, team lead, um user experience, like how

you might onboard team members, how shared billing, all this stuff works.

>> Um a narrative, which uh this is a little thing that I've injected here, which is I feel like PMs are very bad at pitching their story.

>> Um so I've added that in success metrics, technical considerations, milestones, and sequencing, etc. Okay, this is an okay start, but I actually feel like the user stories are really

lame. So, I'm going to say expand out

lame. So, I'm going to say expand out the user stories. Focus on a few personas.

Billing lead, team lead, admin, indivi individual team users.

>> Before you before you hit enter, I'm just sort of curious like um >> what do you like as a product leader like and you're reading these like what is standing out to you as like the user

stories are sort of like lame?

>> Um it's just very very high level. Um so

they're just yeah obviously but then how >> um and so I just think yes I want to share chats and documents my team so we can collaborate efficiently. Let's get

much more specific.

>> Okay.

>> Actually instead a little more detailed.

Let me see be a lot more detailed.

um outline features and sub features that might be useful to all these personas. Um that's

great.

>> I think I'm asking cuz like for me sometimes it's hard like seeing something like that from from uh from Chat GBT or honestly from people that work for me >> like I can kind of tell that it's kind

of high level but it's hard for me to like have that like I my eyes can just sort of glaze over it.

and be like, "Yeah, like that kind of like >> that kind of makes sense." Like I'm just sort of I want to know what's in your brain to be like, "Okay, no, no, we got to we got to push in there."

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creative process. And now, back to the episode. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's um I

episode. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's um I think it's spec specificity and I I think this really shows it itself up in the in the user experience. Now we've

gotten something a lot more detailed on onboarding team members where it's like, okay, we're going to invite them via email.

>> There's going to be a welcome guide.

There's a secure link. Um there's roles and permissions. Here are actually the

and permissions. Here are actually the roles and permissions that you need to build. So this to me feels much more

build. So this to me feels much more specific. I'm like, "Oh, okay. I could

specific. I'm like, "Oh, okay. I could

hand this to an engineer now." Yeah.

>> And instead of saying we need roles and permissions, it says we need these three roles and permissions.

>> Yep.

>> Yeah.

>> And so here's where I think chat PRD the app gets really interesting. Um

I think this looks great. I want to build this all in three weeks. Today is

June 5th. Update the timeline.

So then the the only other thing is I think is the the milestones and so then they're gonna it's going to regenerate this document include all the updated um

user stories which we have. So now we have these more detailed user stories which I'm very happy >> about and then it should generate um more milestones uh in a in a more

detailed way. And I'm I tend to be very

detailed way. And I'm I tend to be very aggressive so I give it like I want to do this in two weeks or three weeks or whatever. Most teams tend to know how

whatever. Most teams tend to know how quickly um they want to do things, but have a hard time like breaking down those milestones. And so I find I use

those milestones. And so I find I use milestoning and sequencing pretty frequently here um as a as a um structure or scaffold for how we might do uh mileston. So here look it's like

initial development >> building features 10 to the 13th 14th through 17th beta testing and launch. So

it's got this nice like okay can I hold myself accountable to that? Can I build that into Jira? And then this is where we go beyond sort of what you could do in a GPT store, which is we have this

idea of save as a document. Look at this nice little solo. It's slow. Sometimes

docs are incomplete. I've apparently

pushed I've talked to OpenAI about this, like their actual team, and I've pushed the edges of some of their function calling. So, we're just gonna see. Um,

calling. So, we're just gonna see. Um,

we're gonna wait for this to load. Um,

and while it loads, I'm wondering if you have any any questions.

>> I always have questions.

>> Forever. That's very cool. I was one of the things I was going to ask you is like um the decision to to have this be a chat feature instead of like an like a

document that you are progressively filling out like a document editor type interface.

>> Um how did you think about that choice?

>> Well, it's actually both. So, if we can get this loader to to you know if we can get the robots to spit back I actually think multimodal is the way. Okay. Oh,

that wasn't too bad. Look at that.

>> That was fine. Yeah.

>> So, documents been saved. So, if I click document save, now I have it in a document format. I can actually toggle

document format. I can actually toggle back and forth between chat mode and mode. This is like the magic. And then,

mode. This is like the magic. And then,

>> will it edit the document that it creates? So, like if you go back into

creates? So, like if you go back into the chat mode and you're like, I want to I want to add something more to the user stories, will it go and re like edit the document or does it regenerate the whole thing?

>> It has to regenerate it right now um because the way things work, but we're getting there. And we do we the here's

getting there. And we do we the here's the the proof that we're getting there.

We have um some of these like built-in AI kind of features here.

>> Cool.

>> So if I'm like, "Oh no, we're hardcore.

We need this like very business."

>> You did this all yourself. This like

this is complicated. This is

complicated.

>> Document editors are hard to make.

>> No. You know, here's what like is so fascinating. No, they're not. Like this

fascinating. No, they're not. Like this

is a solved problem. This is a sol I'll give I'll give a start a startup a shout out. I'm using tip tap editor. A lot of

out. I'm using tip tap editor. A lot of a couple AI companies are using like I did this truly on a Sunday. I built

live. It's real-time collaboration if you want it. It's like ready to go notion style editing in a day by myself while my kids were watching Aladdin.

Like >> I I love it. There's just no I just tell people like there is no excuse not be able to build something. Um, so yeah, so we have this this doc.

>> You're such a badass. Like it's just it's like it's undeniable, >> you know. I just I have interesting hobbies. But yeah, we have this so we

hobbies. But yeah, we have this so we have this document not node now where then what I do. Okay, so that took me like five minutes to get all of this which we we love. And then I come in

here and I'm going to be like uh I'm going to go down actually to um oh we don't have it in here. Let's add it in.

So uh I don't have technical considerations. So I would go back and

considerations. So I would go back and be like I don't have technical considerations and so it said hey making changes to doc you can ask for more feedback. So the chat definitely has

feedback. So the chat definitely has context of >> any changes I made to doc and we say >> I forgot to add we use stripe billing and subscriptions.

Can you add a section that accounts for the technical and implementation considerations for um billing? Also I use clerk.dev dev.

um billing? Also I use clerk.dev dev.

All the stars are getting shout outs.

>> Clerk is so good. We use Clerk for some internal incubation stuff and like it's it just you get so much stuff for free in the user management stuff that like would normally take you like even with AI it'll take you like a day or two to

like integrate Google sign in or whatever and uh and clerk is just Yeah, it's really good. Shout out.

>> Yeah. So now I can tell it okay now we're getting into like how we might actually build this. And so it's going to take into account, okay, what it knows about the Stripe billing capabilities, what it knows about clerk,

>> um, and actually give me some technical considerations that I think are really helpful when handing it off to an engineer. Spoiler alert, like I'm the

engineer. Spoiler alert, like I'm the engineer.

>> Oh yeah, that's how that's how I might that's how I might structure the data or that's how I might do it. So here you go. Integration with Stripe, manage

go. Integration with Stripe, manage subscription plans for team implement like all this stuff. Yeah, this is what I need to do. Um,

>> here's a question for you that like I'm actually thinking through real time cuz like we we at every we're like we build little products. We have a couple

little products. We have a couple incubations going right now. Like are

you using this um yourself for your for your for chat here at PRD? Like at what scale do you think like this level of planning is helpful? Um and uh and if

you're using it for for your sort of like to help yourself track stuff like what you know what does it do for you that um that you think it it it adds? So

what I think is helpful so I think it's very helpful at very small scale single me to very large scale multi- big team because I've seen it work at both sides at the very small scale this is what's

helpful is there are a lot of benefits to um working solo a lot but like if I were to approach this I would like start in one corner and be like okay let's

like integrate organizations and then I'd be like what next and then I'd have to like sit there and think about the um architecture and the sequencing and how I might do it, I would forget. I would

be like, I never want to build a billing page. Like that's terrible. I don't want

page. Like that's terrible. I don't want to do that right now. And if I don't want to do it right now, I'll never do it. So, what this gives me is like then

it. So, what this gives me is like then I'll just go pop this and we're going to build an integration with like Jira linear, etc. I'm going to pop this. It's

just going to go create like a project plan for me. And at least I have my to-do list of things to do anchored on a document. Um so, as you can see, see

document. Um so, as you can see, see here, it updated it. It resaved the document and go back to it. Um, and it should have technical considerations.

Dropped it. It's like fun when you do a live demo. It actually

live demo. It actually >> And it works. Yeah.

>> Actually works. So now I have all this and then what I would do is I would actually like share it. Um, and I would copy the share link and then what I typically do is uh send it in Slack to

Alisa who works on our team and I'm like, "What do you think about this?"

And she opens it up and gives me some opinions. When we launch actually the

opinions. When we launch actually the team feature, we'll add commenting.

We'll add like actual inner team sharing and stuff like that.

>> That's really cool.

>> Yeah, that's what I use it for.

>> I love it. Um I I I'm thinking that we should be using this internally like because we don't we we use notion which I also like notion but like um but uh I think we could put these docs honestly

just in notion and we don't really have a we don't really have a set product management like flow cuz it's mostly just been me like building stuff myself until recently and now it's like we have

a couple of engineers and and a couple other people involved and so it's it's getting to that scale and um one of my failures as like a product person is like I get too excited about whatever is

new and then I and then I forget like the plan and I think having a plan having a plan would would be really helpful for us.

>> So the really surpris so I built this like by product people for product people that's how I built it and actually the number one use case is engineers and founders that don't have a product person.

>> There you go.

>> And so like I have a bunch of engineers that are like I work with this cuckoo founder who just ideas.

>> Not me.

build it, right? And so they like they take the idea and they dump it in here and they're like, "Okay, well, like now I have a plan. Now I can build >> I can build this." And I've used this

for everything from let me see if I can find a good one. Um, oh, brainstorming features for road map.

>> So, uh, I've, this was, uh, actually how we built our summer road map. As I said, here are my three big themes. People, a

lot of job seekers are using it. a lot

of integration with productivity tools.

So, we're talking about Google Docs, Notion, Linear, and storing more context for user research. So, these are things that people are wanting for us. And then

it built out a bunch of ideas and I said, "No, let's build at least five ideas with three pillars, business goal, etc." >> It built it out and then I saved that as a document. And so now I have

a document. And so now I have >> like a road map.

>> That's really cool.

>> Basically, of stuff to build.

>> That's amazing. I I don't know whether you've prepped to to show this. So like

if if for whatever reason you don't have it, it's totally fine. But like where is your like like dashboard hub for like chat PRD like internally? Like what are you using and can you show it to us?

Like how are you organizing all the information?

>> Yeah, so what we use um is metabase. So

I'm using I'm like just a write your own SQL kind of girl. I guess that's you know what that's how I use Chad GPT is I write horrendous SQL and I say make this

sensical or stop getting me an error. So

I use um I'll just talk about my stack.

How about that? Um I'll talk about my stack. So

stack. So >> Oh, I meant I meant like just you know internally like all of your docs like you're where are you saving these docs and like and like planning things and and keeping things?

>> Oh yeah. So we use chat we use chatd.

It's basically the source of all our product documents. We use uh linear for

product documents. We use uh linear for um sort of like road map and feature tracking. Um and then we use Slack.

tracking. Um and then we use Slack.

>> Okay, that's really cool.

>> Yeah. Um I like Can I see the linear or like is that is that >> it's not it's not thrilling. You're

you're welcome to see it. Uh sure. Can

you see my linear? Um what is it linear?

Not a linear app. I'm like applinear linear app. Okay. Yeah, you can see our

linear app. Okay. Yeah, you can see our linear. Um please. This is like fun

linear. Um please. This is like fun stuff. Okay, so teams accounts, account

stuff. Okay, so teams accounts, account settings, core chat stuff, fix doc mode. This is like can I work

around open AI? Um, we have bugs in general, improving onboarding and activation integrations marketing site. Uh, this is their onboarding

site. Uh, this is their onboarding stuff. And then we have our summer road

stuff. And then we have our summer road map which I just shared in our Slack channel. So, it's no surprise. I'm

channel. So, it's no surprise. I'm

working right now on like doc mode being really great. We're doing some marketing

really great. We're doing some marketing site stuff. I'm doing some like backend

site stuff. I'm doing some like backend billing stuff. Here's one of the things

billing stuff. Here's one of the things about being a solo founder on a thing you didn't think was going to be a real project. You get real lazy about like

project. You get real lazy about like tracking billing, you know.

And then I like turned around and I was like, we have thousands of users. I need

to get on like making sure subscription data and stuff is tracked in our database. Um, we did oh actually did a

database. Um, we did oh actually did a really interesting onboarding if I can show it to you. Um, and then we're doing a bunch of integrations in our backlog.

So this is our summer road map. We'll

probably do a couple more things, but we track it here. And then Alisa and I I I truly I do a release. We've done a release every weekend since I launched chat purity. Every single weekend, it's

chat purity. Every single weekend, it's like my commitment to myself and to my community and to my users. Like every

weekend I release something. Um, and

part of that is one, I just think product philosophy really matters. And

two, I'm trying to prove like you can do this. I have a very ser like look at

this. I have a very ser like look at this suit. like I have a serious job and

this suit. like I have a serious job and I still think you can build like something pretty incredible and the cost of building is really pretty low. Um and

so it's part of it is this like exploration and what it means to run an AI native business and part of that is like I think building is cheap and you should prove you could do it.

>> Yeah. Oh, it's

>> How different is it do you think like in in your view like could you have done this pre-AII? Um and and and what's the

this pre-AII? Um and and and what's the difference between you with AI versus you without AI in terms of your ability to like to build stuff uh like on the side?

>> Um so I could I have done it preAI? Yes.

Like I built I did a startup pre AAI. I

was the you know only engineer on the team for nine months of the company.

Like, yeah, I could build a web app pre-AI. Here's what it is. I am a

pre-AI. Here's what it is. I am a serviceable but not excellent software engineer. And but I'm I'm a quick study,

engineer. And but I'm I'm a quick study, like very quick study. It's one of the things I'm good at. And the way I got to where I'm at from a technical perspective is I sat across from somebody and I was like, how do I do

this? How do I do this? How do I do this

this? How do I do this? How do I do this better? How do I do this better? How did

better? How do I do this better? How did

you do that? And now I just have that on demand. like

demand. like you know these people if they listen to this will know like Yasheen or not Yasheen Yeland and Jeremy and Dave Yelen and Jerry and Dave all at

different parts of their career sat across from me and now I'm a monster and so now I have like a combination of them you know digitally sitting across from

me at any moment and so if I want to learn something new um I can learn it very quickly and then I can put it into implementation without having to bring that like other person into a loop.

>> Yeah. No, that makes total sense. And

and yeah, I I think I'm I'm more asking like on the like on the side like you have a demanding job, you have a family, like uh when you're talking about

building things on the side, like what um uh w would you have had the time to do this or and and if so, like how much faster does this let you go?

>> No way. It's like thousands of times faster. I mean, I I I I said this

faster. I mean, I I I I said this yesterday at an event. I did a startup before. It was a SAS app. It's a website

before. It was a SAS app. It's a website on top of a database. It's like a good website on top of a good database, but it was a website on top of a database.

And it took us probably five to nine months to kind of like build the serviceable first version of

that. And I think if you gave me a

that. And I think if you gave me a coffee the size of my face and said on Saturday like go I think I would have it done by Sunday afternoon.

Like I cuz cuz you can stand up o you can stand up a database you can stand up billing you can do all these things and then if I hit a wall I go ask my like on demand engineering

buddy to write code for me and it gets written. So I just I think like that is

written. So I just I think like that is the multiples of efficiency you get. And

if we believe you can get multiples of efficiency on engineering output, then I absolutely believe you can get multiples of efficiency on product output. And

this is where like some of our great testimonials are where people are saying like you're saving me 10 hours of work in 15 minutes. Like that's like great.

Then use those 10 hours of work to do something really awesome for the company. Um so I think it is a

company. Um so I think it is a tremendous amount of leverage. That is

that is really crazy. What what does that what does that say to you about like the future of product as a job and like where where does that go? What

happens?

>> Um so I I think there's a couple things that are going to happen. Um maybe one is that I think the ratio of PMs to sort of like builder roles is going to shift

pretty dramatically. One of the chat

pretty dramatically. One of the chat parody users said to me, I can now basically run quote unquote or um lead a team of 20 engineers where typically

like the ratios you're seeing in a lot of companies are like 1:7, 1 to like 10 maybe. So now you're going like 1 to 20.

maybe. So now you're going like 1 to 20.

That's very different. And in fact, I said I'm going I can do 1 to 20. I was

going to hire an APM to help me sort of more junior PM. You use chat period and hire a designer instead because I think that's the thing that's going to accelerate our our our our building. Um,

so I think that's one thing and then people are gonna say, "Claire, but then you're ruining jobs for junior folks."

That is actually not true because then what we're seeing on the other side is junior PMs are able to ramp up and be much higher impact

especially in a remote context because again you have this ondemand coach that can help you uplevel what you're doing which is very hard. if you ever look at

my calendar, like sure, I would love to coach every PM1 on the team and I just do not have capacity to do so. And so, I do think you're going to see like more junior folks have higher impact more

quickly. And I'm really excited about

quickly. And I'm really excited about that. And then the third thing I it's so

that. And then the third thing I it's so funny, um, you know, there's a bunch of kind of leaders at my level, CPO, VPs of product, etc. that are like, how is AI

going to change things for them? Well,

like it's never like change things for me. And I'm of the very strong opinion

me. And I'm of the very strong opinion that one of the things very likely to be disrupted is strategic thinking as a differentiated

value for a human like a human. I think

that these LLMs are really good at synthesis applying like pre-existing frameworks like business schools exist.

They've published their information like pre-existing frameworks to business problems to drive specific outcomes. And

so I use chat GPT and chat purity a lot for strategic work. And I think that's partially because that's the part of my job that's most likely to be disrupted.

So I better get really good at it. Um

using these tools as opposed to sort of being on my on my back foot.

>> I love that. I mean I I I love the sort of attitude is like don't panic, just use it. If it's going to be good at it,

use it. If it's going to be good at it, like just use it. like I I can give up the the strategic thinking and and and and direct this thing to do it. What

What do you feel like is most likely to be left for you? Like what are you what do you see the like PMs of the future being good at? Um yeah,

>> I do think like inspiration and alignment and motivation of humans towards a goal is still just like it's it's very hard for for something like AI

to do. um getting teams excited about a

to do. um getting teams excited about a mission, getting them close to the human impact of their work, which is like how it impacts customers. Um that's one piece that I think this sort of like

influential and inspirational leadership, you're still just going to have to have at the PM level. I do think that the ability to build things is

going to become much more important. And

my friend Whan has this idea of like the proto manager, which is instead of being a product manager, you're a prototype manager and you're going to be expected to build prototypes instead of building

documents. And I think that's like a

documents. And I think that's like a really interesting thing to play with.

So I, you know, I think there's going to be like building is still going to happen on teams for a little bit um until these kind of tools get a lot more um consistent in their output. I think

inspiration and leadership and honestly just convincing hordes of humans to do big things and be excited about it.

Hopefully I can still be good at that.

And then I do think like these things are trained on past data. And so what is I think there's going to be some product leaders and I think they might actually come from the design side or maybe in

the engineering side to be able to see very far into the future and sort of set a place to go. Now, somebody else can map how you get to that place, but really having that point of view of like

what's the place you want to go. I do

think there's some opportunity there for people to contribute.

>> Definitely. I I definitely agree. I

think you're totally right. Like um

there are these things are quite good at sort of the the welltrodden paths of of the current and past reality. And

sometimes you can take the like currently welltroddened paths and like project them out into the future and they're probably going to be decent at that. But like when things are totally

that. But like when things are totally new and the world is changing, it's very actually things are some things are totally unpredictable by LLM. But our um I think humans are still still pretty good at um sometimes figuring that out

or making it happen. It's not just like um figuring it out. It's like just having the force of will or the vision to be like this can work and I want to do it.

>> Yeah. Uh and I I think one of the other you know reasons I'm doing chat purity other than it's like a utility to me it's very useful is I do think product

leaders and product managers and engineers if you're not thinking about how to build actual like enduser products in this new model with these new technologies you're going to just be

very far behind in terms of what that future is going to look and feel like to users. So I'll just like I'll give an

users. So I'll just like I'll give an example of this which is we had I had this onboarding for chat purity and it was fine. It was like three steps and it

was fine. It was like three steps and it was like fill out your profile um do something else and like billing and it was fine and I just but I looked at it and I was like this just doesn't

feel like an onboarding to an AI product. It feels like an onboarding to

product. It feels like an onboarding to like any other SAS SAS product. It just

feels the same. And so one of the things I started to play with which is this um new onboarding that we're doing is I was

like it's a chatbot so like shouldn't the chatbot onboard you and tell you like what's going on here? And so it's okay like caviar is telling me what's going to happen. Okay, then I get this

form. Okay, we we haven't done the form

form. Okay, we we haven't done the form yet but we'll we'll get there. And then

um it's like great I'm nice to meet you.

here's all the places you can find us.

Here's all the things like if you need to get help and then it goes into into our plan. Um, so I just think that's

our plan. Um, so I just think that's been something that I've worked on and just try to play with, you know, how is

how are these how are these products going to like look and feel and should you do these like chat style onboard?

It's like fake. It's like just like little transitions in, but it anchors you into what's the modality of this product going to be and how how are you going to like go into it and experience it moving forward and it's been

opportunities to play with ideas like that that I think are really useful for me as a product person um regardless of what happens with chat.

>> Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense. So, I know you have um uh I know

sense. So, I know you have um uh I know you have some personal stuff that you wanted to share about how you use use AI, but before we get to that, is there anything else on the work side that that you wanted to demo? Um, no. I mean, I

think I I think I'll give one more story and you can decide to use it or not, but just going back to the the strategy side. Um, this is really practical and

side. Um, this is really practical and very efficient for me. So,

um, one I our office is in Oakland, so I have to cross the Bay Bridge to get to the office. Um, when people ask how do

the office. Um, when people ask how do you do it all, this is how I do it. So,

I have 20 23 minute commute. I've been

at my company now for about 5 and a half months. So, hitting, you know, it's time

months. So, hitting, you know, it's time for me to like deliver the like here's this the capital P, capital S strategy.

Like, I've thought about it. Here you

go. Um, and I have all the context and information in my head for what we should do. I think I have a clear vision

should do. I think I have a clear vision and like I'm going to have to write this thing down. And so, what I did is I

thing down. And so, what I did is I opened up voice chat GPT. Um, I haven't done chat uh voice for PRD yet, but it's

on the road map. And I just like said this is what I think the strategy should be. And it was meandering. It was

should be. And it was meandering. It was

not well organized. And I said, "Oh, I'm thinking about this competitor and that competitor and this thing and that thing and blah blah blah." And at the end of my 22-minute commute, I had a very I

think a very good articulation of like what I think our strategy was that I did with like my hands on the wheel crossing the Bay Bridge looking at the beautiful

skyline. And so I just I'm really

skyline. And so I just I'm really leaning in because it it helps me do my work at every level just so much better.

>> I have the same experience. I love it for that. Like I was recently

for that. Like I was recently negotiating a deal and we were sort of like pretty close to the end of it and I I had this like vague feeling that something about the deal needed to change but I couldn't figure out why and

I couldn't express it.

>> And I just like took a walk and just like talked into chatbt for like >> um like 30 minutes. But yeah, it's like all these disconnected things where it's like I just I can't put my finger on what it is, but there's something here that I can't say.

>> And then at the end of it, I was just like, can you summarize it? And it's

just like laid out in three bullet points like the exact things that I was trying to say, but couldn't say. And I

was like, yeah, of course. Of course,

that's what it is, you know? And it's

it's so helpful, you know?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

>> Um, so let's let's I want to see some of the things you you're using this in your personal life. You're using it to uh to

personal life. You're using it to uh to to do things with your family. like tell

me about like tell me about what you're using it for.

>> Um so when you have a calendar like mine and jobs like mine um and a life like mine, you were just drowning in

information and you're drowning in requests. And so one of the things I

requests. And so one of the things I actually did really early on is automate my email um in in two specific

categories using OpenAI APIs where I felt like I was falling really far behind but I had a very high volume of of demands. And so those two categories

of demands. And so those two categories were one being recruited for jobs and two stuff from my kids school. And so I

every day I'm this isn't like a flux, but like every day you get this message of like, hey, we have the highest growth CPO job on the face of the earth. We're

making X million, blah blah. And all of them are a no. And in seven years, if I want a job, I should like reply to these recruiters and be very polite and like tell them exactly what I'm looking for so that, you know, whenever I'm looking

for a job in some like long-term future, they know what I want. And so I built an automation that looks for emails that are from recruiters. It checks the email

against I'm not taking a job, but it checks the email against types of jobs I would take and then drafts an email back saying I'm not interested, but these are the kinds of jobs I would take and like

recommends to me, recommends to me, sends me a Slack message that recommends to me next steps, whether it's like follow up, ignore this person or whatever. Um, so that's been really

whatever. Um, so that's been really useful and I found that very constructive and it helped me like just get on top of stuff especially when I was job seeking.

>> How did you make that? Like what's

what's the thing that's reading your emails?

>> Uh, it's a Zap. So it's a Zap year thing. So what I do is, you know,

thing. So what I do is, you know, there's a dozen recruiting firms. So I look for everything with their email addresses plus anything that says like

recruiter or talent in it. I tag it automatically with a filter in Gmail and then the Zap reads all new emails on

that tag and then sends the email to a completion endpoint in OpenAI and says like answer this question about it like what should I do? What should the email be and then sends that answer back to me

and then sends it to Slack and drafts in an email.

>> That's the best. And can can you send the email from Slack and you be like, "Yes, send it." Or do you have to go into Gmail and >> No, it it goes into a draft and then it just like tells me like you should go send this email.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I love

it. And did you Is that how you got your current job?

>> Oh, no. I'm going to give uh I'm gonna I'm just gonna shout out everybody. Uh

no, that's not how I got my current job.

The way I got my current job is CJ at Artisal Talent, who always has the best jobs, texted me because he knows. I'm

like that's the kind of stuff that AI is not going to do yet is like texted me and said I know what job you're going to take very accurate. Uh but no he did not he

very accurate. Uh but no he did not he did not do that.

Um so that that's an example one. But

the second place that I'm truly drowning and any parent can empathize with this is I get 7,000 emails a day from school.

like everything from fourth grade to this art project to like your kid's bleeding in the street and you need to come pick him up. Like it all goes into this like they all have these apps. His

apps have these messaging things. They

send email notifications. They send push notifications. Um they're very long.

notifications. Um they're very long.

Like these messages are very long and it's just it's so much content and I was losing like what do I need to pay attention to and what do I not? So I'll

try to show my screen without doxing my kids. I think I found um a specific

kids. I think I found um a specific Yeah, I found a good one. Okay, so what this does is it reads the email

>> from schools and then at 3 or 4 p.m.

every day, cuz that's like when I need to pay attention. It's like before I pick up the kids.

>> Yeah.

>> It says, "Summarize these in the like most succinct way possible. Only bubble

up stuff that's relevant to Henry and Theo, my kids. And then like tell me if I need to do anything." And so this is one day of emails, mind you. This is how

much stuff is. One, my kid fell and like had glass in his hand and it was a whole whole thing and I had to email them and say like be gentle.

>> Another thing is like I didn't do his costume so I had to tell his teacher he was in the ER all night. I didn't do the costume. Um the other thing was the

costume. Um the other thing was the teacher saying no big deal. He's reading

the book. Then there was like an all school sleepover that was postponed. And

then like this is the one that I would have missed truly as a working mom which is like picture day is tomorrow. like

make sure your kids bag of muffins. Um,

and so it's this kind of like every day I look at this and I'm like great, I know exactly what to do. This is

probably like 3,000 words worth of email.

>> And I'm just getting like the very succinct um summary of it. And so this has been like just truly a lifesaver for me. And I operate I mean everybody

me. And I operate I mean everybody operates in Slack. I operate in Slack.

You cannot email me things. you cannot

push it into an app.

>> I need it like where I do my work. Um,

so that has been >> that's been the lifesaver. And I, you know, I think I'm pretty popular in the parents WhatsApp group because whenever anybody's like, "Hey, what day is the or

when am I supposed to?" I'm like, "Yeah, >> screenshot my little AI bot and say I I got you."

got you." >> That's incredibly cool. I mean, that seems like a second product. Like I feel like a lot of parents would pay for that.

>> Yeah, maybe. I'm like as a public good, I'm willing to just teach anybody how to build it. I try to do things like I try

build it. I try to do things like I try to filter out things. Um, you know, I'm trying to be like pretty protective of of information, but like this stuff where it's like my kids. Um, I got I got

to get these summaries, Ann.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Uh, that's

that's truly incredible. Um, I guess I'm I'm curious like sort of toward towards the end of this discussion, we've seen this incredible product you're building.

Um like what is the future of that for you? I

like are you do you want to run this as a business where this is the only thing you do? Is it like continually a side

you do? Is it like continually a side project? Um, yeah. Like how are you

project? Um, yeah. Like how are you thinking about it?

>> I want to see if we can get it to a million dollars. H

million dollars. H >> that's like can you share >> what uh can you share what we're in six six figures of uh of ARR six months.

>> Yeah.

>> Side project.

>> That's great.

>> Nice. My goal I mean I told everybody I was like my goal is I want to buy myself like a nice glass of wine once a week.

Remember I was selling this for like two bucks a pop. I was like I get a nice glass of wine like once a month or once a week I'll be happy. And then I was like wine. And then my new ambition was

like wine. And then my new ambition was I can pay for my kids school. Um so I think we've we've definitely crossed that threshold and now I'm like can I pay for my kids college? Like it's

really kids kid-entric milestones. We're

funding that 529. Um but I I think like intellectually no. I here's here's what

intellectually no. I here's here's what is very interesting about doing this is look I've got friends like would they write me a check? Could they fund this?

>> Sure. like you know where we met like yeah people would probably write me a check um I could like knock on your door and be like pretty please >> but >> I'll write you a check if you want >> thank you um but my question that's not

my question my question is like does this kind of product need that kind of check >> and if it doesn't how do you build it like what's what is this business this is like more the

intellectual side of me which is I'm actually trying to as somebody who really cares and loves technology and somebody who loves startups I I don't know if the current model of venture

funding is the right model for something like this. Maybe it is, maybe it's not.

like this. Maybe it is, maybe it's not.

I just don't think it's not it's not obvious to me that it is. And so what I'm trying to do is push the edges of how far you can take this with me and

Alisa who works part-time.

And look, if I hit a wall where capital's the challenge, like I can get access to capital, but right now it's not times the challenge. It's there's

there's something else here which I'm trying to figure out how to solve the right problem, how to access the right people. So I just I I'm very happy at my

people. So I just I I'm very happy at my job. I love Launch Darkly. It is a

job. I love Launch Darkly. It is a product that I'm just like so happy to work on. I'm an engineer. It just it

work on. I'm an engineer. It just it like gives me a lot of joy. I'm pretty

good at the job that I do. They know

about chat period. They're extremely

supportive of it. Um and we've carved out the IP because we're all good corporate citizens. Um, but I this is

corporate citizens. Um, but I this is this is a this is it's an exercise and a experiment for me and I want to see how it plays plays out. Like never say

never, right? If 10,000 users turns to

never, right? If 10,000 users turns to 100,000 users in the next six months like we might have a different conversation. Um, but let's let's see

conversation. Um, but let's let's see how it goes.

Yeah, I think I think that that makes a lot of sense and and I I love this sort of point about um uh new funding models for these kinds of companies like the

venture model was built for like when software was a lot riskier to build. Um,

and and the outcomes were also like much much much bigger potentially. Um, and

there's a lot of room for these sort of AI businesses where it's like uh it can actually be a really meaningful like cash generating business, but it's probably not going to be like $10

billion or something like that. Um, and

it's something that like we've thought about a lot at every because we have a media business. Um, but we've also we've

media business. Um, but we've also we've already spun out an AI writing app called Lex. Um, and we have a couple

called Lex. Um, and we have a couple more incubations and like the the amount of leverage that we get with like we have six people full-time nowish and like the amount of leverage we get with using AI tools like we're shipping so

much stuff all the time and it's like it's like a million dollar a year business or something like that. But

like if we had a little bit more capital like I think we could do like amazing stuff but I just don't want to raise another actual venture round. And so

it's like what is the shape of that money and and and all that kind of stuff is really I think an important question.

Well, and you and I know this, but you know, there's I was at an event and somebody asked the question of like, when do you know it's the right time to raise venture capital, and there's like a lot of interesting answers about

product market fit? And my answer was like one, when you know you can do something with it, and two, when you want a venture outcome, and a hund00 million is not a venture outcome. Like,

people don't understand that. Um, $100

million would change my life. I don't

know about you, but it would change my life.

I be able to fund the 529.

So I think you really do have to think about like you can be extremely ambitious. I don't think $100 million is

ambitious. I don't think $100 million is something to sneeze at. It's not a venture outcome and you you start playing that venture game. That is the the path you commit yourself to to your investors. I know that. I've taken

investors. I know that. I've taken

venture capital before. Um so I just think that you know also this is like not my first round. Uh and so I I have a lot more flexibility. I can self fund stuff if I need to, even though we're um

obviously like profitable relative to kind of like time and and investment.

So, I think it's interesting. I have a last thing to show you if you want to see it.

>> I would love to see it. Bring it on.

>> Okay, these are fun things, which is I'm raising the next generation of like a AI enabled children. So, I built three

enabled children. So, I built three things. I built three things with my

things. I built three things with my kids um using AI. So again, this is like less about the like logistical how do I keep my life on top of um school stuff and more about like cool ways you can

introduce kids to AI. So I'll show you like just a couple things that I've built that I I'm proud of. I think

they're very fun and I did them with my um my six-year-old. So, the first one, okay, so the first one is this, which is

my um then four and six-year-old at the time, now five and seven-year-old at the time, and I they're really into Greek

mythology. And so, we built these

mythology. And so, we built these Pokemon style cards, um including images for them to like fake play Greek

mythology Pokemon and like stuff with it. It's just so fun. and they're

it. It's just so fun. and they're

obsessed with these. They keep them in their like little file folder with um all their uh all their Pokemon cards.

So, this was just like a really fun art project. I guess two of these are Greek

project. I guess two of these are Greek mythology related. Um and then I uh

mythology related. Um and then I uh they're also into this podcast called Greeking Out, which I highly recommend.

Um my kids really into it, so I made him a little podcast hub of podcasts that he likes. And it's um the podcast episode.

likes. And it's um the podcast episode.

Let's see if it's work. I haven't even spun this up in a long time, so we'll see. So, basically what I built is a um

see. So, basically what I built is a um podcast hub that takes all these podcasts he likes, transcribes them, and gives little quizzes at the end. So, he

can like listen about Poseidon, and then like do a question and answer with this app. It's apparently not running right

app. It's apparently not running right now. Um but but that's a really fun one.

now. Um but but that's a really fun one.

And then the last one, this was our Christmas break project, is we built runaway pancakes.com.

runaway pancakes.com.

And so one of the problems I have as a parent is recipes are not built for kids to follow because it has the big list of like instructions at the top and then all these in you have to go back and

it's like add the flour to the water and it's like how much flour? How much

water? So um my seven-year-old and I built out his favorite recipes um as and we generated all the midjourney these are all midjourney

images. Most of them are not creepy. Um,

images. Most of them are not creepy. Um,

but we built all his favorite recipes, but we did them in a way where he could follow them step by step and it had illustrations with um kind of like

pictures for what it might look like that we did out of midjourney. And so

this was a really fun project. So you

have the ingredients here and what we did is we took the recipes and then each step, this is like the big innovation.

It was like mix this much flour, this much baking powder, this much sugar because this is not what um recipe sites tend to be to be doing. And so you can

see you can go through step by step. You

can kind of like see what it looks like.

Um and then you get your fluffy pancakes. And then we made a whole bunch

pancakes. And then we made a whole bunch of coloring pages.

>> That's so cool.

This is the best. Like being a kid right now seems so cool >> because like Yeah, it's Yeah, like recipes are not built for for kids. Like

I had I ran into that so much growing up. It's like I'm interested in this. I

up. It's like I'm interested in this. I

want to make food. I want to learn how to write. I want to do all this stuff.

to write. I want to do all this stuff.

And it's like there weren't classes for like seven-year-olds because there aren't that many seven-year-olds that like want to do that. But like AI stuff means like uh you and your parent can just like make something like this. And

it's it just it's delightful. I'm it

makes me so happy. My uh maybe chaotic good thing that I did is I trained a 11 Labs voice on like Santa and then when

my four-year-old was not being great in the December time period, Santa left him a voicemail. It was like Theo, I've

a voicemail. It was like Theo, I've heard you've been a little disrespectful to your mom during dinner.

>> Be like I'd be like, do you want to talk to Santa? And he'd be like, no. And I

to Santa? And he'd be like, no. And I

bet Santa has something to say and then I play play it.

>> So there's lots of lots of little hacks you can do as a as a >> lot of good parenting tips in this episode. I like it.

episode. I like it.

>> Good, bad, take them for what they're they're worth. But now my kids demand

they're worth. But now my kids demand custom stories from me. They're like, I want a story about a like wild chicken who becomes a prince on a island kingdom and then fights Darth Vader. And you're

like, okay, dude. Like I got I'm like on it, you know? Um, so yes, in one ways it's very magical, in other ways like spoiled for choice.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I wonder I I just wonder what it's like to to grow up in a world where all your questions are answerable and all your stories are custom. Like

it's kind of a different It's a different thing, you know?

>> Oh, yeah. I think I closed it. One of

the chats was like, "My son was convinced there was a bucket war in ancient Italy."

ancient Italy." >> He was like, "Mom, when was the bucket war?" And I'm like, "What the hell are

war?" And I'm like, "What the hell are you talking about?" My husband and I are like pretty into history and we're like, "Bucket war? We're googling, what is the

"Bucket war? We're googling, what is the bucket war?" And we asked um Chad GPT,

bucket war?" And we asked um Chad GPT, we said something like, "What was the bucket war in Florence or something?"

And it was like, "Oh, you're mixing up two historical events, this event and that event." And there was actually a

that event." And there was actually a war over a bucket um in in ancient Italy. Um I'll try to find the link. We

Italy. Um I'll try to find the link. We

can put it in the show notes, >> please. We'll put it in the show notes.

>> please. We'll put it in the show notes.

>> Being able to interpret my children's very vague recollection of almost accurate facts is a it's a very useful use case.

>> Incredible. I love it. Um this has been so fun. Thank you so much for doing this

so fun. Thank you so much for doing this uh with me uh and for sharing everything. Um I love what you're up to.

everything. Um I love what you're up to.

Um just for just as we end like if people want to know more if they want to um uh message you follow you on social uh use chat chat PRD like where can they find you?

>> Yep. So I'm on X uh Clarvo all one word.

I'm on Tik Tok chief product officer. If

you really want some very niche uh product content that's the place to go.

Uh it's a little stale. I've been a little busy the last six months but we'll we'll revive it. Um chatard.ai

um is where we're at. and chat purities on Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube. Very

brand new to I'm trying I'm trying to learn YouTube, so that's my that's my next project.

>> Amazing. Um well, thank you.

>> Oh my gosh. Thank you. This was fun.

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