Brainwashing Expert: They Design Your Thoughts— Notice THIS Pattern to Stay in Control!

Today's guest is an expert in psyops, mind control, and government brainwashing. One of the most powerful techniques that people don't really understand. If you want someone to think an idea is their own, you have to make them feel clever for coming up with that idea. In our last episode, we explored his process for reading and manipulating human

that idea. In our last episode, we explored his process for reading and manipulating human behavior, techniques he's taught to the CIA, the FBI, and the U.S. military. I've studied

psyops for a very long time. very long time. I train psyops. The fastest way to engineer behavior in a country is to destabilize the nation. And the fastest way to destabilize a nation is make people stop trusting their neighbors. Now we'll dive deeper into the persuasive tactics that can influence someone's thoughts, uncover the psychological operations hidden within

social media, and break down the step-by-step process used to brainwash an entire population. They're

in the business of engineering reality. The events are real. The story behind them are almost never real. You see something happen on the news, you see something happen in your life, and you just have one word. Just memorize this one word when you hear that stuff or see that stuff. Chase Hughes. Welcome back to the Jack Nail Podcast. Thanks, dude. Glad to have you. Chase, on our last podcast,

Podcast. Thanks, dude. Glad to have you. Chase, on our last podcast, the viewers said that the moment you started speaking, they couldn't stop listening. How do

you make someone focus completely on your words? There's a few different ways to do that. Let's talk about the mechanics of how that works first. So first, when you

that. Let's talk about the mechanics of how that works first. So first, when you want someone to focus, if I want you to feel anything, then all I get you to do is pull files out of your mental file cabinet. And this is one of the most powerful techniques that people don't really understand. If I talk about

something, You have to pull out your references and all of your files about that thing in your own file cabinet. You can't resist it. Like if I say pink elephant, I've just created an image in your head, irresponsibly, which is how we usually use language. But if I talk about something vividly, then I'm getting you to pull

use language. But if I talk about something vividly, then I'm getting you to pull out these files. And this is just one of the most critical lessons that I teach any of my one-on-one clients. So if I know that I can get files pulled out of your file cabinet, I also know that your file clerk or whatever we call like this memory retrieval system, I just call it a file clerk. He's

going down there and he's gonna pull out this file, this file, this file. Everything

that he pulls out, he's gonna leave it out on the desk. And because he's leaving it out on the desk, that makes the memory way more accessible later on.

And this is called priming. So if I want to get you to think that being really focused on something is your own idea. I'll talk about when I watched a show and how it captivated all of my attention. And I might shift the words from me saying I to using the word you. And it'll sound something like

this. So name like a really good movie, anything. Die Hard. Okay.

this. So name like a really good movie, anything. Die Hard. Okay.

So Die Hard is one of those movies that people don't think is a Christmas movie, but kind of is a Christmas movie. I remember the first time watching... die

hard. It's one of those times where you're sitting there and now I've just shifted to you and people don't notice. Like you didn't notice that I shifted from I to you, right? So it's one of those moments where you're just sitting there, you're watching a movie and all of a sudden this one thing gets super interesting and all your focus gets sucked up into this one thing. It's like the volume on

everything else around you gets completely turned down and you just completely zone in on something. So in order for you to understand what I just said you had to

something. So in order for you to understand what I just said you had to pull out references from your own memory. So I'm getting you to pull those files out one by one as I'm describing each little piece of this process. The second

thing I did that you may not have noticed is when I said you get completely focused on just one thing, I'm pointing at myself right now, very covertly. I'm not like doing this, right? But I'm saying you just get completely focused

covertly. I'm not like doing this, right? But I'm saying you just get completely focused on just one thing. And it's like the volume on everything else gets completely turned down as I'm pointing away from your line of sight to me. So I'm doing a lot of things at once. So what we did here is pulled out all those files, made it more readily available, and then made you think that it's your

own idea to feel how you feel because that all came from your own head.

Does that make sense so far? Yeah. And then I'd use what's called gestural referencing when I'm saying something and then pointing in a certain direction. So like if I want to demonize another group of people, I might point, am I not gonna point at you, right? I wanna point at me, I wanna point like away from us.

So let's say the goal is to make you super focused. And I know that you are a podcaster, right? So I might say, you know, I've been on a lot of podcasts and it's amazing how so many times I'll be on a podcast and there's this one podcaster who's like, he's talking to you, but he can't pay attention. It's like they're not really connected. They're not tuned in to the conversation. And

attention. It's like they're not really connected. They're not tuned in to the conversation. And

you're nodding your head the whole time. But what I'm getting you to do is covertly make an identity agreement about yourself. I'm covertly getting you to agree that you are not that type of person. So if we started out our conversation that way, and I talked about watching Die Hard, how it is to get focused on something, and then I demonize this other group of people that's not

us, saying that they can't focus, they can't tune in, they can't really connect with another person. During that time, your brain is making these agreements. And the moment I

another person. During that time, your brain is making these agreements. And the moment I get you to make an identity agreement, that's different than an idea. So I can say, yeah, it's really important to focus on a podcast. You'd be like, oh yeah, yeah. It just sounds like bullshit. Cause I'm getting, that's an idea. An identity is

yeah. It just sounds like bullshit. Cause I'm getting, that's an idea. An identity is me getting you to say, I'm not that person. or I am this person, depending on how I'm wording myself. Does that make sense so far? Then we add in a third layer. And this one will be like using what's called an embedded command, which are not really effective for achieving big things, but making small shifts in a

person's thoughts, you can use these for sure. And this is where you hide a sentence inside of a sentence. And the sentence should be able to stand on its own, and it should sound like its own sentence. So essentially the four rules of delivering some kind of embedded language in your language is number one, whatever you say

to that person has to be standalone as a sentence. Number two, you drop your tone. And dropping the tone means I'm going to talk to you in a way

tone. And dropping the tone means I'm going to talk to you in a way that I'm telling you to do something, but it's hidden within a sentence. And number

three, I want to return to our topic of discussion as fast as possible so your brain is not picking up on what's happening and I'm returning you back to familiar territory very quickly. Does that make sense? You want an example? Sure. All right.

So let's say I just talked about these other podcasters and I would say, you know, I think it's really rare when someone could just stop and completely focus with me the way I see it. when I'm on a podcast, so I might just go right back to podcasting, right? So that would be coming back to the

conversation. But what I said is stop and completely focus with me. All is one

conversation. But what I said is stop and completely focus with me. All is one sentence. So if you took the audio clip of what I just said out, that's

sentence. So if you took the audio clip of what I just said out, that's its own sentence. And I paused before and I paused after to help your unconscious part of your brain pick up on that more. Like it pays more attention to it, even though it sounds like a run on sentence. So when I'm saying the words with me, the conscious part of your brain thinks that it's hearing one,

me starting a new sentence. Does that make sense? So I might say, let's say the word like, get completely fascinated, right?

And I want to say that to another person. I might say, you know, it's one of those moments, just like when we're watching Die Hard, one of those moments where you can just stop and feel completely fascinated with me the way I see it. And then I would go right back into our conversation. But I said, get

it. And then I would go right back into our conversation. But I said, get completely fascinated with me. I didn't say with me, right? So if you cut the audio out of what I said, you would think that I was telling someone to do something. So now that the audience is fully tuned in, relaxed,

do something. So now that the audience is fully tuned in, relaxed, open, how do you feed in a thought to believe it was always their idea?

And how do you change the way someone thinks permanently?

So there's a recipe and I can't teach you the whole recipe because it's something that we teach to a lot of attorneys, but I'm going to give you exactly what you need to kind of reverse engineer this on your own.

The number one thing when I teach people influencer persuasion is If you want someone to think an idea is their own, you have to make them feel clever for coming up with that idea. Clever. Not smart, not that they agreed with you. They feel clever on their own. And if you... I don't think

with you. They feel clever on their own. And if you... I don't think we've ever covered this before, but if you watch the news, you'll see the news come up and they'll say, a local woman is reported missing.

She's been missing now for 24 hours. Witnesses say that before she was missing, they saw her arguing with her boyfriend. Details at 11. But what did your brain do?

Your brain was like, oh, I know who did it. I know exactly who did it. So your brain makes this conclusion because they put two pieces of evidence in

it. So your brain makes this conclusion because they put two pieces of evidence in front of you. So when you think, I bet the boyfriend did it, you're not saying I agree with the news. You're not saying I agree with the facts that were presented to me. you're saying I'm coming up with my own idea. So the

goal is if I get two pieces of data and just put them in front of you and get them close enough together, I'm gonna let you reach out and click these pieces of data together. And I'm not giving you the answer, I'm making you think that it was your own idea. So I'm just getting two ideas that come together and letting you put them together. So on a sales call, I'm not

going to put the puzzle together for you, but I'm going to arrange all the pieces where all you have to do is go, oh yeah. And they're right beside each other and you feel clever because you're like, oh, I know this goes right to this thing. So if you get someone to feel clever, just about every time in every scenario, you're going to succeed in making that person think that it's their

own idea. Get those ideas close enough together with some proximity that the person can

own idea. Get those ideas close enough together with some proximity that the person can clearly see they go together. And then I guess the long-term reprogramming of beliefs, what does that look like? And how on our last podcast, you mentioned how you could brainwash me to murder someone in about 40 minutes. Does it work the

same with beliefs? Like, could you change any belief that I had? I don't think that rewiring beliefs is required to rewire behavior.

So... It's much easier to rewire identity than beliefs.

Because if you have beliefs about something, I would have to argue against them. I

have to present facts and have to present counter arguments and all these things. I

can get you to make identity agreements very easily. Like, are you a good person?

Are you mostly right about things? Do you have a good intuition? Everyone's going to say yes. Or everyone's going to at least feel yes to those questions. And I

say yes. Or everyone's going to at least feel yes to those questions. And I

lead that identity into something that I want you to do. It's three steps, it's perception and then context and then permission. So if I change the way that you see a situation, I'm just changing your perception, not your beliefs. So if I get you to see a situation a little bit differently and all this, all we're

talking about here is I'm shifting your camera angle. So like I'm taking one of the cameras that we have in the room here and I'm just moving it maybe like 10 inches. where there's a slight shift and like, oh yeah, I can see the situation a little bit differently. And then context. If I change the context, I don't need to shift any of your beliefs. I automatically change your behavior.

And that's what's happening with all of society right now is they're learning this method and the context is shifting so fast that it's making people celebrate violence, like people celebrating the death of Charlie Kirk, which is pure.

sociopath behavior, but it becomes okay given a certain context in these people's heads. And I'm not saying it's okay. I'm saying their context has shifted so much

heads. And I'm not saying it's okay. I'm saying their context has shifted so much that if I demonize someone and make them like, this is baby Hitler, and you really genuinely believe that, you're going to be like, wow, that changed the future for everybody. Another example of this, in the 1950s, there's a comedy

everybody. Another example of this, in the 1950s, there's a comedy hypnosis show. You've seen them before. You go to a comedy club, there's a hypnotist

hypnosis show. You've seen them before. You go to a comedy club, there's a hypnotist there. He gets some volunteers up on stage, makes them do like stupid shit. Like

there. He gets some volunteers up on stage, makes them do like stupid shit. Like

one of the bits that this guy did, he had everybody up on stage and he said, all of you are working for the sheriff's department or police. And everybody

out in the crowd right now is rowdy. They're at a house party. You're trying

to bust this house party up. They're waking up the whole neighborhood and nobody's listening to you. But the thing is you can't get off the stage. So everybody up

to you. But the thing is you can't get off the stage. So everybody up on the stage is kind of going up to the edge of the stage, yelling at everybody, pointing at them like, you better listen to my authority. I'm going to arrest you. So they're under hypnosis, like thinking that they're police, kind of playing along

arrest you. So they're under hypnosis, like thinking that they're police, kind of playing along a little. And then he says, now the people in the audience, now they're pulling

a little. And then he says, now the people in the audience, now they're pulling out these giant like alien ray guns or some kind of a gun. And then

one guy that's up on the stage hypnotized is an off-duty police officer with a concealed weapon. and draws his weapon and starts shooting into this crowd of people.

concealed weapon. and draws his weapon and starts shooting into this crowd of people.

Really happened. Which he, obviously, he was a good guy on the force for many, many years. And the context was something where he would use his weapon. So he was in a comedy club, then he was in this weird situation where he's on duty. And in his mind, being on duty means that

if I'm threatened, I'm going to immediately react with deadly force if you know, these conditions are met for deadly force. So the context shifted. So his behavior automatically shifted, which is the final thing in PCP. We have perception, context, and permission. So

this gave him like the social permission to say, I am allowed to do this and I'm justified to do this because the context changed. So if you can change a person's context, you can get any behavior that you want out of a human being. That's really fascinating. I haven't heard that story before about the

being. That's really fascinating. I haven't heard that story before about the undercover officer being hypnotized. I'm sure that's probably happened a few times.

No doubt. Chase, how do you know if you're in the middle of a psychological operation? I would just assume 24-7 that we are. But let's go into

operation? I would just assume 24-7 that we are. But let's go into the details. What are the signs that something is a psychological operation specifically?

the details. What are the signs that something is a psychological operation specifically?

So narrative sticking points. So matching narrative is number one. Matching narrative

means that I'm hearing pretty much the same messaging from media outlets, celebrity influencers, which is number two, and authority, authority. So people

that are in a position of social authority, not like cops and lawyers and judges, but people in social authority, like pop singers, and I won't say any names, pop singers, the most popular pop singers, all saying the same shit on social media, that should

terrify you to the deepest part of your core that none of this is real or none of this is what it seems like. And those are the first two.

Number three is if you're seeing people silenced, or ostracized for disagreeing with an idea. We saw this during the pandemic like crazy. There were Harvard educated medical doctors that were kicked

crazy. There were Harvard educated medical doctors that were kicked off of social media, which is our greatest fear of human beings is being ostracized socially. It's greater than death. This is why public speaking is rated higher by almost

socially. It's greater than death. This is why public speaking is rated higher by almost everybody than death. And it's not public speaking that we're afraid of. It's being out there and having a big idea and then getting rejected by a large crowd. That's

what terrifies human beings. And you can leverage the shit out of that, especially when you can manufacture an artificial tribe on social media. So

Harvard educated doctors that disagreed with this mainstream narrative were getting banned. And I can't remember his name. I wish I could.

getting banned. And I can't remember his name. I wish I could.

But the dude who invented mRNA vaccines was on there and went against the narrative and got ostracized. The dude who invented this kind of vaccine. It's unbelievable. And that step

vaccine. It's unbelievable. And that step three, just remember in your mind that if an idea requires suppression, to exist. It's a horrible idea and it's most likely a psyop.

Good ideas don't need to suppress other people. Good ideas travel on their own.

Good ideas spread on their own. It doesn't need suppression by itself.

So those three are some of the big ones. Is it fair to assume then that the people who are the most silenced have an idea that holds value at least? Yes. If I'm seeing a large group of

at least? Yes. If I'm seeing a large group of people or companies, because it's not like you're not seeing like, it's not the news host that's silencing that person. It's the billionaire owner of that network. And that's a big deal. That needs to terrify you to your core.

that network. And that's a big deal. That needs to terrify you to your core.

Because if I could go on a little rant here and just let's talk about psyops for real right now. When Charlie Kirk got killed, I put a video out there. I don't know if you saw it. I just

kind of put my iPad up on a table and went on a rant and I don't know how to record videos very well. I don't know how I have a million subscribers on YouTube because the way that I record videos on YouTube, I just start a Zoom meeting and record it. That's how much I don't know how to record stuff. But at the end of the day, if

you're on social media, I want everybody to know that there's a 90% chance that this stuff that we're seeing around the world is not some giant agenda that's scheduled out in some dark room with dudes smoking cigars and writing all this stuff out and planning it out.

If you look at how algorithms work, it's not like let's serve... George Soros or anything like that. The algorithms are what's going to make Jack click on this ad to buy some new boots or to buy a new coat, right? And that's what the algorithms do. And we can go deep into how algorithms manipulate the shit out of you if you want to do that.

But the second thing that they do is make you feel like you're part of a tribe. No matter what, if you have some dipshit weird beliefs, they're

a tribe. No matter what, if you have some dipshit weird beliefs, they're going to put you in with all of your buddies that think like you do.

But at the end of the day, if you're on the left, you're being shown the stupidest dumbasses on the right that could possibly exist.

But the way that you're shown it so often on repeat, you have no other choice in your mind unless you're deliberately seeking out competing media narratives. You have no other choice in your mind but to think all of these people are insane. All

of them are absolute idiots. I don't know how this is possible.

And if you're on the right and you scroll through your feed, if you're on X or Instagram, it doesn't matter. You scroll through your feed and you're going to see the absolute dipshit morons on the left. And they're going to show you the most crazy psycho people possible over and over and over and over again until you

say, this is the left. Not these are people on the left or this is the right. Not just these are a couple of people. Because if you think to

the right. Not just these are a couple of people. Because if you think to the time that, where did we go yesterday? We went, oh, we didn't go into Walmart. But if you walk into a Walmart, you're going to see people that voted

Walmart. But if you walk into a Walmart, you're going to see people that voted in a way that you didn't vote. And they're not breaking shit. They're not

screaming. They're not psycho. And they probably want the same things that you do.

You have more in common with these people than you think. You're gonna go see somebody on the right if you're on the left or somebody on the left if you're on the right. They wanna feed their kids. They wanna pay lower taxes. They

want to feel safe in their own home. They want to chill. They wanna come home at the end of the day and put their feet up and have some time off. They wanna have time with their family. I want everybody to know, I've

time off. They wanna have time with their family. I want everybody to know, I've studied psyops for a very, very long time. I train psyops.

And you have more in common with all those people that didn't vote the way you voted than some billionaire elite that's influencing media narratives. Even if that billionaire votes the same way you do, you still have more in common with that person that voted the other way that you see

every day in your life. That's not crazy. That is absolute engineered reality. And I have a checklist of how to tell if you're living in an

reality. And I have a checklist of how to tell if you're living in an engineered reality that you can, if you do show notes, then somebody can click it in the, what's it called? The description. They can, you can download it right now.

And the guy from the Y files, um, AJ Gentile just did a whole show on this, the engineered reality system. And I'm not sitting here trying to say, oh, you need to love your neighbor. You need to love people. And that'd be great.

Yeah. I'm just saying that the hatred that people are feeling for the other side is engineered. It is not real. And it's very difficult for people to admit that I have been manipulated. Yeah. And I can tell you as the psyops dude, the mind control guy, whatever you want to call it,

I am as vulnerable as everyone else. I don't have some like, you don't get a vaccine. If you learn a certain amount, you don't like get immune to manipulation.

a vaccine. If you learn a certain amount, you don't like get immune to manipulation.

I buy this watch I'm wearing came from an Instagram ad. So I'm not immune to any of this stuff. And I The moment that you think, oh, not me, I'm not immune to that, you become the most vulnerable person in the room. It's

like you're going into Best Buy and you get a laptop and you're like, oh, no, I don't want any of that antivirus software. I don't get viruses on my computers. You become vulnerable because you think you are invulnerable.

computers. You become vulnerable because you think you are invulnerable.

So realizing that all of us can be manipulated and then coming to terms, it's very difficult to do to say, like, I've been lied to, I've been manipulated. the biggest thing that people need to say is this isn't me.

manipulated. the biggest thing that people need to say is this isn't me.

This isn't me. This is an engineered reality version of me. And

what are those people responding to? Why am I getting mad at the left or mad at the right? Context. My perception got shifted, then my context, and then my permission to treat people like shit or, you know, however I choose to react to that situation. Are you saying that

that situation. Are you saying that the way these algorithms try to divide us and incite violence is engineered in itself?

Or do you think it is a fault of the algorithms and what they reward?

Because people say algorithms reward watch time. I mean, you know this stuff because you do YouTube, you have your own YouTube channel as well. Algorithms reward watch time, engagement, comments, shares, et cetera. Is this just a result of the way it's designed? Or

do you think it was intentionally designed this way to incite this kind of violence, political violence? I think it's both. And here's the bottom line that it's going to hopefully seal this for everybody. Number one,

their job is to get your attention and keep your attention and then sell you shit and make you click on ads so they can make money. That's number one.

The best way to do that is to put you in a tribe where you feel safe most of the time, show you what you agree with. However, these two two Chinese intelligence officials wrote a paper that later got turned into a book called Unrestricted Warfare. And in this book, they talk about a hypothetical country

Unrestricted Warfare. And in this book, they talk about a hypothetical country that's very similar to the United States. And it's a country that has what they call asymmetric capabilities, where our military is vastly superior and would win in a military war. However, in order to

win against a country like this hypothetical country the Chinese talk about.

Psyops was a huge part of this. And there's two trains of thought, and I'm not subscribed to either one. And I don't just say that to be a podcast idiot who doesn't want to piss people off. I genuinely don't know. Maybe it's both.

So number one, the fastest way to engineer behavior in a country is to destabilize the nation. And the fastest way to destabilize a nation is make people stop trusting their neighbors. Stop trusting people that are within an arm's reach that could help you during an emergency. Number one. And the second train of thought

is, if I want to obfuscate and hide my actions as one of these weirdo elites who's kind of controlling everything, I want you fighting sideways, never upward. And look at our country right now. everyone's

fighting sideways instead of up. So I get you to fight sideways. You'll never look up. You'll never see me standing there kind of pulling all these strings because I'm

up. You'll never see me standing there kind of pulling all these strings because I'm getting you to fight wars that are horizontal instead of vertical. Would you say that's the biggest PSYOP happening right now? Because I have a few others we could go through. There are some bigger, there are some much bigger ones. But one thing that

through. There are some bigger, there are some much bigger ones. But one thing that I've told my kids as they were growing up and We're at my house right now. I don't know if we said that yet, but this is my office that

now. I don't know if we said that yet, but this is my office that we're sitting in. You got to meet my son last night and again today. And

when they were growing up, they would always ask about, did they get hypnotized? Did

somebody get controlled? They were six, seven years old asking these questions. And one thing I would always remind them are the events are real. The story behind them are almost never real. So when you see something happen, the event, is happening, the story behind it and the entire thing is usually some kind of theater

production. There's something happening there where we are in engineered

production. There's something happening there where we are in engineered reality. And if you look at that engineered reality matrix, you can just clearly see

reality. And if you look at that engineered reality matrix, you can just clearly see that so many of these things are engineered. And I'm not saying there's actors being hired and things like that, but I'm saying the situations are engineered. You see a big catastrophe happen the moment some big embarrassing thing is about to get released.

And it's every time. And it's every time. So there's

always something going on. And I'm not sitting here as some harbinger of truth who's saying like, oh, I've got everything figured out. And I know all these guys pulling the strings. I've never focused too much on that because knowing about it,

the strings. I've never focused too much on that because knowing about it, is not going to really free you. You're not going to be like, it make you feel cool. You'll get a placebo of some kind of control of your life, but you have none. I want to focus on what are the methods that are being used? How can I make people aware of the methods and how do I

being used? How can I make people aware of the methods and how do I get, how do I train people in these methods so we can start using them in a war against that in our own mind of just fighting against being in that level of control? Well, get into a some of the methods a bit later in the interview that can help people protect themselves from a PSYOP and use some

of Chase's methods in their own life. But I do want to ask, why do you think the Israel-Gaza PSYOP failed in the U.S.? Because

it seems like America used to have a very positive opinion of Israel and Israel affairs, and that has largely shifted to the point where it's become mainstream to say a thing like free Palestine. So

from a psychological operative perspective, why do you think they might not have won their case? There's a few reasons.

case? There's a few reasons.

There was a CIA program. I think it started in 1957. It was called Project Mockingbird. Are you familiar with this? Part of this, yeah. They installed the most...

Mockingbird. Are you familiar with this? Part of this, yeah. They installed the most...

So if you talk to your parents, every news anchor that they remember from their childhood, there's like a 90% chance that was an actual CIA operative. And this is documented, released documents. Guys like Walter Cronkite, like one of the most famous news anchors of all time working for the CIA to engineer reality. And they're in the

business of engineering reality. And you just have to understand that so much of our reality is engineered. It doesn't mean you walk around like a schizophrenic thinking that everything's out to get you, everybody's targeting you. That just means like, you see something happen on the news, you see something happen in your life, and you just have one word, just memorize this one word when you, anybody listening, when you hear that stuff

or see that stuff, maybe, maybe. They say, oh, this happened today because of this one thing. Maybe. Just maybe. You don't have to say there's some global cabal and like I need to drill down to the end and go break into the bohemian grove and like figure out all the shit that's going on. You don't need to do all that. Just maybe. That word can protect you from so much of

the bullshit that's going on with engineered reality. I don't even know what your question was. I will say, just as an aside, that spending time with Chase and his

was. I will say, just as an aside, that spending time with Chase and his son, the one thing I noticed was he wouldn't let his son make any direct, full identity statements or just absolute statements. He'd be

like, maybe that's the case. Don't say that, say it could have been this. And

I found that to be very interesting. I think it's very helpful in people's life to usually say maybe as well. original question was why do you think the israel gaza psyop failed yeah so back to mockingbird then uh so there was as time went on through the 50s 60s 70s there was a

very strong foothold in what the american public was exposed to the opinions and everything else so it wasn't like there's so many people that think oh when twitter and facebook came out we could engineer people's opinions no this shit's been going on in the newspapers for a very long time, since like the 1920s. And it started with another guy who was Sigmund Freud's nephew, which is another story if you want

to get into it. But it's been going on for a long time. What was

that guy's name, just so people have called? Edward Bernays. The father of propaganda. Yeah.

The father of American propaganda, anyway. There were some Soviet programs that were really good, too. So... They had a strong foothold. And essentially, just to turn

too. So... They had a strong foothold. And essentially, just to turn this into a couple sentences, that foothold loosened as people were able to get on social media. And then Twitter X was acquired by

social media. And then Twitter X was acquired by Elon. And then he just had this policy of open truth. And you're not going

Elon. And then he just had this policy of open truth. And you're not going to get kicked off of here for offending people, which offending people isn't against the law. We should be able to offend each other to have... powerful discussions and change

law. We should be able to offend each other to have... powerful discussions and change politics and even forwarding scientific advancement should risk offending somebody who wrote a paper or something. So that came out and then it became less... So there's always been some outliers. There's some guy who runs a podcast. There's

less... So there's always been some outliers. There's some guy who runs a podcast. There's

like the Alex Joneses of the world who just don't give a shit and they will just unload and they don't care about the social consequences. But a lot of people who have these opinions... we're scared of like, oh, I'm not going to do that because I'm going to have social consequences. I'm not going to talk about anything.

But the apparent consequences of speaking up are getting less and less and less than they used to be. So the reduction in social consequences is making the conversation seem to be like people are willing to speak their mind a little bit more. But when people are saying like free Palestine and all

of this kind of stuff, lot of that is about identity. It's about, it's not about like you learned about Palestine and then you made an agreement. And if you look at this, this is going to upset a few people, but I just want you to look at this objectively, that what I do today and the things that I post online are not me making a decision today. It's everything I've made a

decision about for the last two years publicly. So what have you done publicly for the last few years? Maybe I committed to being a member of a left or right leaning party. And that means that I also committed to this and then this and then this. So that shapes all of our behavior. And I think some people may not be willing to admit it. And that's okay. Some people may not be

ready. You got to be willing to admit that like we get shaped by our

ready. You got to be willing to admit that like we get shaped by our past and we get shaped by the things that we're publicly made to agree with.

And if I can get you to make an agreement, that's one thing. If I

can get you to make that agreement in front of 10 people, I alter your behavior almost permanently because of how you view yourself and not wanting to go away and be seen as a person who's not who they say they are in front of the tribe. So I think a lot of that comes down to the fear

of tribal outcast. So when I said two sentences, I meant... 29.

So it's fair as well that just from the way you're describing this, that free Palestine appeared to be a lingo that was fairly restricted or at least unfamiliar to people. And then in of itself, people made a movement to be like the underdog. These are the victims. And I'm not saying that isn't the case, but I'm saying that was at least what most people will tell

you, which makes it the more likely side to join. And if I view them as the underdog, then everything I see on social media is going to agree with me and they're going to show me what I need. So if I'm looking at something online and I agree with the free Palestine thing, I'm only going to see

anti-Israel content because if I don't, if I start seeing stuff I disagree with, I'm going to close the app. I'm going to exit out of the app.

So if Dr. Phil has a great way to think about this. And Dr. Phil says, no matter how flat you make a pancake, it still has two sides. And

I think it's important for us to look at both sides of every story. So

if I'm on the support Israel forever side, I want to look at some of the opposing narratives. I want to look at some of the other things. If I'm

on the free Palestine side, I'm going to look at some of the other things from the other side and what they think. And I want everybody to know, if you're listening, our brains have not physically changed in 200,000 years. No new wrinkles or anything. There's nothing really different about our brain.

200,000 years. No new wrinkles or anything. There's nothing really different about our brain.

And we tend to think, we want to tell ourselves that our brain is a truth-seeking mechanism, that it's wired to seek the truth. It is the opposite of that.

Our brain's job is to keep us alive, and search for things that we already think are true. So your brain is basically a defense attorney and their job is to prove you right all the time. And once we understand that, I'm going to start looking at other things. So I'm either A, well-informed, or B, I'm not going

to consume one-sided narrative-based media. Do you think porn is part of a psyop? No. Do you think AI is a

psyop? No. Do you think AI is a government psyop? Do you think Jeffrey Epstein is a government

government psyop? Do you think Jeffrey Epstein is a government side? I think government op without the side. So you don't think it's possible that

side? I think government op without the side. So you don't think it's possible that Jeff Epstein was just a financier? No. And this is, I know a lot of people who are way more educated than I am on the whole situation. I don't

read about it. I don't, I don't follow a lot of those stories. Everyone that

I know that works in Intel positions thinks that it was a operation of some kind. Why do you think everyone has become more anxious?

That's a very good question. And this is just my opinion. I

think we have anxiety because we have unlimited amount of distraction and thought anesthetic. So like

you go to the bathroom, you take your phone. You go in the shower, you put on a YouTube video so you can listen to it. You sit in the car. We don't have boredom anymore. And boredom used to be one of the ways

car. We don't have boredom anymore. And boredom used to be one of the ways that we would mentally process a lot of stuff. And the second piece of this is, if you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, which is a model, and all models are wrong, some models are useful. I think this model is useful. The third

level, we have survival and then safety and then belonging and this kind of social...

part of the triangle. And on the belonging part of the triangle, our brains were wired, like we said, our brains haven't changed in a long time. Our brains are wired to handle a tribe of like 150, 175 people. And you have a life in social media that has tens of millions of people in there. We

cannot handle it. Our brains cannot possibly handle it. but it gives us a placebo that we're actually connecting to other people. And this is why we have a global pandemic right now of loneliness, even though we're more connected, but we're more lonely than ever before. Because what we are usually on social media is

performative. I'm performing something. So no matter how much someone likes me, I know for

performative. I'm performing something. So no matter how much someone likes me, I know for a fact they're not liking me for me. So we get anxiety. Social anxiety is through the roof. general anxieties through the roof. Dr. Daniel Amann has some great commentary on this stuff when he was on, I think he was on

Rogan like a week ago talking about this. And when we don't experience real connection with people and we're performative all the time, we are desperate for people to tell us things, to connect with us. But even if they do connect with us, we know it's not the real me. So we don't have any real

social fulfillment. There's a French philosopher named Sartre. And he

social fulfillment. There's a French philosopher named Sartre. And he

wrote about this thing, and it's now commonly referred to as Sartre's hell. You get

these three people, and they're essentially in hell, but hell is other people. And it's not in a way that you might think. In Sartre's hell, you

people. And it's not in a way that you might think. In Sartre's hell, you get locked in a room, sort of locked in a room with these three people.

And everyone needs so badly for other people to acknowledge something about them. I need

everybody to see that I'm a good person. I need everybody to see that I'm beautiful. I need everybody to see that I have a good heart or whatever it

beautiful. I need everybody to see that I have a good heart or whatever it is. And in Sartre's hell, they're desperate.

is. And in Sartre's hell, they're desperate.

There's three people. And he goes up to one of the other people and And one of the guys says, I need you to tell me that I'm a good person. I need you to tell me this about myself. And the other person says,

person. I need you to tell me this about myself. And the other person says, yes, that is you. And he doesn't believe him. So he refuses to believe him, but he's still desperate for them to keep saying it and keep saying it.

And the funny thing is the door opens like once a day. So they can walk right out of the room and no one leaves because they're desperate to confirm these things. They're desperate to confirm who they are through the eyes of other people.

these things. They're desperate to confirm who they are through the eyes of other people.

And that's where we are right now. All of us getting into this desperation for, if I get enough likes on this video, if I don't have a pimple on my chin, then people are going to think I'm more credible. If I don't do these, if I don't say these words right, then people are going to think I'm less credible. So I want to confirm what I believe about myself and through

the behavior of other people. And that is Sartre's hell. And I think that we are living in a digital version of Sartre's hell right now. I do want to touch back a bit because I realize I glotted past something you said. You said that a lot of the main anchors

at the big media companies were CIA operatives. Do you think that's happening today? Yes. Did you think I was a CIA operative? No.

happening today? Yes. Did you think I was a CIA operative? No.

What are the signs? You mean like what should we look for online?

I think when somebody is asked a difficult question about their government, their agency that they might be working for, they might answer it in a negative way, but then they'll say, yes, but they do all this good thing and that good thing and that good thing. So I think that allegiance mandates some kind of PR maintenance. So

asking those really difficult questions are the way that I see people respond to those. And it doesn't make me say, oh yeah, 100% that guy's an agent or

those. And it doesn't make me say, oh yeah, 100% that guy's an agent or whatever. But it does make me say, interesting. That's interesting. That's

whatever. But it does make me say, interesting. That's interesting. That's

interesting. Like that person got asked about something that happened in the 1950s with the CIA. And they said, yes, they did that back then. However, nowadays, their new focus

CIA. And they said, yes, they did that back then. However, nowadays, their new focus is this and this and this. And they'll throw a little commercial on top of the admission of the negative thing that happened. Yeah, I think Gen Z, maybe this is biased because this is at least my

belief. I think people would be surprised that the CIA is sophisticated enough to

belief. I think people would be surprised that the CIA is sophisticated enough to infiltrate the influencers that Gen Z and Gen Alpha watch. Because they're like, oh, there's no way these older guys are able to get in here and do this kind of thing with us. You know, like we're watching TikTok. We're watching, I don't know, Sora AI videos, Instagram Reels. But

if you were theoretically going to design... a psychological operation, what would be the main areas you think you would have covered on social media? You mean like if I wanted to recruit someone like you? No, I suppose. Like, do you think they're everywhere? Do you think it's just media? Do you think it's podcasts maybe? Do

they're everywhere? Do you think it's just media? Do you think it's podcasts maybe? Do

you think it's TikTokers? Like how many, is it everywhere? I think it's in every area where media is consumed. Yeah. And I'm not saying, let's be clear. So when I'm saying like somebody's an operative or whatever word you want to use, they're not like walking around on their off time, pulling out their

secret CIA ID card and badging into the main building. That's not what happens.

even if you go back to Project Mockingbird, they're just getting some talking points in a letter every once in a while. They're just saying, oh, you know what? Don't

have this guy on your show or don't allow this to be spoken about on your show. Or if they talk about this, you're going to cut it out. It's

your show. Or if they talk about this, you're going to cut it out. It's

simple things like that. Some very basic instructions. And the way that somebody like a Gen Z person might get recruited is, let's just use a hypothetical person instead of a real person. So you're talking about how someone like me could get recruited into this. Yeah. So it's not like design from birth. Oh, no, no,

no, not at all. They'll typically capitalize on the people who already have talent and skill. It's not like they're going to like, they don't have to worry about that

skill. It's not like they're going to like, they don't have to worry about that because people are going to rise to the top and they don't have to worry about training them in charisma, media, on-camera presence. They just find the people that are already doing well. So it saves them a lot of time and a lot of money. So let's say one day, let's just use you as an example. Somebody comes

money. So let's say one day, let's just use you as an example. Somebody comes

up and says, hey, man, I love your podcast, yada, yada. They're in a restaurant, a bar, whatever. And they say, I have a serious question for you, though.

Are you a patriot? Would you consider yourself a patriot? Now I've got you locked into identity, right? Exactly what we talked about at the beginning of our show here.

So you consider yourself a patriot. Then we'll go on a little bit. I'll get

you to make a few more comments and stuff like that. And I'll get you to make a few more agreements that say that, yeah, I support the country and all that kind of stuff. And then I say, well, I have an offer for you, but before I show you anything, I just want you to say yes or no, would you be willing to entertain the offer and look at what I have?

And it might be uncomfortable. Would you be willing to look at it? Sure. Yep.

Stage one is I show you all of your browsing history Captures from your webcams on all of your phones and computers of you doing the most compromising shit you could ever possibly imagine. Every bad thing you've ever done, record it in some way.

And I'd say, I like your podcast. I think you're doing a great job and I want to protect you. And I want to keep all this from the public eye. But we also want to give you $20,000 a month. So A,

eye. But we also want to give you $20,000 a month. So A,

I'm going to protect you and B, I'm going to give you $20,000 a month.

from all this. So you have the carrot and you have the stick at the exact same briefing, and you agreed to receive the briefing from me, even after I told you it was going to be stressful. So now you feel like you chose all of this. So you walk away not feeling like I shoved this in your face. I told you it was going to be stressful and you agreed to it.

face. I told you it was going to be stressful and you agreed to it.

And you agreed that you're a patriot and all the other agreements. And now you're, if you say yes, The reason that you're doing this on your podcast is for your country, because you're not going to call yourself compromised. We have this thing called cognitive dissonance that keeps our brain from thinking, I'm a bad person. We have a

hardwired thing in our brain that says, I did this bad thing for this good reason. It's in everybody's brain. So now when you start to go back on the

reason. It's in everybody's brain. So now when you start to go back on the podcast, you're going to go back to that sense of patriotism, because that's how that person anchored that conversation at the very beginning and probably at the very end. So

now, even though you're being asked to silence people, not have certain people on the show, leave something out of your podcast, you're telling yourself and whoever's your handler is telling you this is for the greater good. This is for the good of the country because... We have these brand new initiatives that are coming out. The

Saudis are doing X and Y and Z. Chinese are preparing operations to do X and Y and Z. And if this thing got out, it could have caused a massive panic and a massive crisis. So you did the right thing, and you kept Americans safe by doing that. And you'll tell yourself that, and you'll feel good about it. So when a person is in this situation, they will feel good about what

it. So when a person is in this situation, they will feel good about what they're doing. Even if it feels a little off in the back of their mind,

they're doing. Even if it feels a little off in the back of their mind, they'll still feel like I'm At the end of the day, I'm doing the right thing. What happens if I say no?

thing. What happens if I say no?

At the end of the day, if you said no, then, and this is all hypothetical. I'm making all of this up completely. At the end of the day, if

hypothetical. I'm making all of this up completely. At the end of the day, if you said no, the conversation would turn to, well, I think you're doing a great job. I appreciate you having this discussion with me. And I have to say that

job. I appreciate you having this discussion with me. And I have to say that there is no way that I can prevent this stuff from reaching the public eye.

unless you decide to work with us. And all I'm asking you to do is just work with us once a week for five minutes, but it's up to you.

And that'll be a mind virus in your brain for weeks and weeks and weeks, and it'll never go away. And all I've got to do is leave you a business card with a phone number on it. And you'll call. Eventually you'll call.

That's fascinating. Ah, Chase, you and these crazy hypotheticals, man. Ah,

I just make them up. As a government mind control expert, we'll say, what PSYOP do you think is being run on you? Or what PSYOP have you been susceptible to? I think, uh, about three years ago. Um, and these are all political. This is

like, I started, uh, I followed one conservative person and then I got all these other things. And damn, this is, I was never going to admit this on

other things. And damn, this is, I was never going to admit this on anywhere. But I got down to a point where I was on X

anywhere. But I got down to a point where I was on X under an hour a day because I have these app time limits. Now they're like eight minutes. And I don't even have social media on my entire phone anymore. But

eight minutes. And I don't even have social media on my entire phone anymore. But

now I got to this point where, where I was just seeing so much of this doom and gloom, the world's going to end, country's going to end, you need to start preparing for World War III, all this crazy shit that I invested in a survival property. I

bought things that I, way too much money that I shouldn't have spent. And I

just completely bought into this. And at the end of the day, when they said, oh, all this shit's going to happen, all this stuff's going to go down. I

was sitting there with all of this stuff, like sitting there looking around at all this stuff. And I was like, I am such a fool. And I felt bad

this stuff. And I was like, I am such a fool. And I felt bad for a minute, but it's just like, I have a human brain. I'm not superhuman.

I don't have a super immunity to any of this stuff. So it's definitely something that anybody can fall for. And Taking a break, like what I call a media diet, is maybe with what's going on today with depression and loneliness and anxiety and all this stuff, it might be one of the healthiest

things that you can possibly do. It definitely changed my life. So just to recap and put it succinctly, how do you protect yourself from being brainwashed? And how

do you kind of not be affected by any type of psyop ever?

That's impossible. But there is the fastest way to do this is, and I built this method for myself. And number one is what is grabbing your focus? So I need to train my brain to look for manufactured novelty, some unexpected thing, something that we never thought we never saw

coming. It's a big black swan event that no one saw. Train your brain to

coming. It's a big black swan event that no one saw. Train your brain to look for that. So that's first, the first way to hijack the mammalian brain is focus. Second is authority. So you train your brain the moment that an

focus. Second is authority. So you train your brain the moment that an authority figure comes up, even if it's like some Hollywood celebrity commenting on politics. It's maybe a politician coming out and saying, these people are bad.

politics. It's maybe a politician coming out and saying, these people are bad.

Train your brain to look for authority figures and especially when their messages line up.

So part three of this is tribe. We start understanding and being able to spot the ways that artificial tribe is being manufactured. So

if I own Facebook, let's say, or it doesn't matter, I'm not singling out Facebook.

If I own a social media company, I can fake it to you that there are tens of thousands of people who agree with XYZ ideas. And the

moment that I get you to believe that lots of people are adopting this new behavior, this new idea, then I get you to go along with that. And this

is proven in research, study upon study. Some of these studies that are just fascinating to look at. These are done in the 60s. A lot of these done in the 60s. So we have focus, authority, tribe, and then emotion.

So when am I And when am I getting emotionally played? Not just when is something making me feel emotional. A good commercial makes you feel emotional. Like there was some of these Super Bowl commercials that people would cry during these commercials because they were so well done. That's okay. When am I being emotionally hijacked? And here's the way to tell when you're being hijacked. And in hypnosis, this is a hypnosis technique

that I think was invented by this guy named Dr. Milton Erickson, who's like the grandfather of hypnotherapy. He's the reason that hypnosis and genuine hypnotherapy got approved by the American Medical Association, the American Psychiatric Association.

And this technique is called fractionation. And in a fractionation, I have your emotions here and I show you things to bring it up here, up here, piss you off, and then bring you down again to something that's joyous and happy and reverent and kind and awesome. Then I bring you back up again. And then when I pull you back down, you'll be twice as vulnerable. Then I bring you back

up again, pull you down. You're twice as vulnerable. So just to give you the corollary and like how this came from hypnosis, if I'm hypnotizing you and I only allow you to wake up a little bit, just to the point where your eyes open a little bit, and then I put you back down, you'll go deeper. Then

I wake you up a little bit, just where your eyes open, push you back down, you'll go deeper every time. So This makes us hyper, hyper suggestible. So being very keen and very aware of when I'm going up and then

suggestible. So being very keen and very aware of when I'm going up and then back down and then up and then back down. And if you're really good at this, you'll be able to spot where the ads, you'll know before you see an ad. Quick one. Something Chase taught me on our last interview was that being well-researched

ad. Quick one. Something Chase taught me on our last interview was that being well-researched gives you a significant advantage when entering a conversation with someone. So now when I have a guest on my podcast, I try to learn the little details, hidden gems, things that they would never think I would know about them so our content is as good as possible. This is a big reason we had to start using Poppy

for all of our content because with their platform, you can take documents, voice memos, tweets, podcasts, tech talks, and connect them all to a chat bot that instantly transcribes and lets you interact with several pieces of content at once. As someone with over 15 billion views on social media, good research is your competitive edge when it comes to going viral. So if you want the most powerful AI tool to improve your

content, just go to jackneil.com backslash poppy. They have a 30-day money-back guarantee, so if it doesn't give you value, it's completely free. You can also scan the QR code on screen or hit the first link in the description. But anyway, guys, back to the podcast. So you'll see riots. Then you'll see fighting. Then you'll see a body cam footage of somebody getting in a fight with a cop or arguing with

a police officer to kind of like, ugh, kind of get your heart racing a little bit. And then you'll see maybe one more thing that pisses you off. Then

little bit. And then you'll see maybe one more thing that pisses you off. Then

you'll see some... other party person, left or right, doesn't matter. You'll see some political thing that pisses you off and makes you hate tribalism. So it's injecting the tribe.

So that's focus, then authority, and then tribe. And then we have emotion. And that

emotion starts right as that big thing is pissing you off. Then you'll scroll one more time and it'll be one of those videos of like, oh yeah, we just found this baby coyote on our back porch and he was injured. So we splinted his leg and we bottle fed him. And then it shows this little coyote, like a time-lapse of him growing up, sleeping in the bed, playing with their baby, playing

with the dogs, all this stuff. And it's like, wow, like you get this big emotional rush. That's fractionation. And then right after that little baby coyote video,

emotional rush. That's fractionation. And then right after that little baby coyote video, ad, you'll get an ad. And no human came up with this.

I definitely didn't teach them this. The algorithm started understanding what makes people click.

So paying attention to that is step one. Step two is where am I seeing these narratives repeated throughout multiple media sources? I'm seeing lots of the same exact thing from multiple places. And number three, and this might be the most important of all, is where am I seeing people who disagree get ostracized? Am I seeing

people get exiled from some community because they disagreed with something?

And those are the signs that you're in a cult as well. It's the same shit that cults do to recruit members and keep members. Like, what does a cult go through? I'm gonna get you to adopt a whole lot of new beliefs and

go through? I'm gonna get you to adopt a whole lot of new beliefs and new identities. I'm gonna introduce you to a cult following, like you have to stay

new identities. I'm gonna introduce you to a cult following, like you have to stay in this members. I'm gonna get you to start tribalizing yourself with these people versus everybody on the outside. There's an in-group and an out-group. Then there's a cult ideology and dogma that you have to follow. It's just this rigorous thing to start changing your behaviors. What you're seeing on social media, and not just social media, the media

your behaviors. What you're seeing on social media, and not just social media, the media overall, is basically what cults do to people. I'm going to isolate you and show you that you're powerless without these things. You have to follow this leader.

You have to follow this doctrine. You have to excommunicate yourself from this tribe because they don't agree with you. They're creating a cult. It's exactly what we're seeing.

I'm not trying to be dramatic here, but maybe that'll make for a good 60 seconds short or something. But at the end of the day, if I feel like if I adopt a belief that And I can feel morally righteous because I believe something that is completely fabricated, that was

engineered into your brain. But the hardest part about doing this, and people will say like, what's the checklist? What do I need to do to protect myself? The hardest

part is admitting that you're vulnerable to it. Because a lot of people are like, no, no, no, I got all these ideas myself. I did research and I did all this and I looked at this. I looked at this document because our brain's job is to prove us right. So like you see the same stuff in a Tony Robbins seminar. It's like if you continue saying you're not successful, you're not successful,

your brain's job is to prove you right. But if you continue saying the people on the far right are not absolute dipshits or the people on the far left are dipshits, your brain's going to just look for evidence to prove you right. That's

its main job. So you have to be able to admit that I have been manipulated before. That's got to be step one. That's fascinating. Would you

manipulated before. That's got to be step one. That's fascinating. Would you

say it's, I know Tony Robbins was trained in hypnotherapy, right? Yeah. Is that fairly common for large, I don't want to say cult leaders, but people with a large audience that's very loyal to them? No. They're trained in hypnosis? No. No. Manson did,

Charles Manson. Yeah. Studied hypnosis and a few other things, but mainly, I think his main book in prison was like How to Win Friends and Influence People back then. It's like a Dale Carnegie book, which is one of the best books

back then. It's like a Dale Carnegie book, which is one of the best books ever written on like just having good social skills. But I think that the people who rise to the top and become cult leaders, you have number one, you have like a grandiose narcissism. And you can't have a malignant narcissist as a cult

leader. It's a lot harder to do that. Grandiose narcissism, like my confidence in me

leader. It's a lot harder to do that. Grandiose narcissism, like my confidence in me and how perfect I am and how flawless I am is so strong that you'll just buy into it. So you have that. And I think the people that rise to the top and become famous cult leaders, the ones that we hear about, because for everyone we hear about, there's a thousand, 10,000 that we don't even know about.

So the ones we hear about, I think, naturally become good at those skills that resemble hypnosis because they're calculating human behavior their whole life from the time they're three or four years old. They learn if I say this one phrase, it makes mom emotional. If I do this one thing, I can get away with this. Or if

emotional. If I do this one thing, I can get away with this. Or if

I pay really close attention, I can hear Uncle Johnny's insecurities. And I'm going to file that away and I'm going to use it later on in our conversation because I know those insecurities and I'm going to use them a little bit later. I

think it would be useful for people to use these tactics for good, of course, but... You certainly can. How do you quickly spot someone's number one insecurity?

but... You certainly can. How do you quickly spot someone's number one insecurity?

It's... I don't know about quickly. Well, you can do it very quickly. To teach

you, it would take a few minutes. Let's go into it if you want to do it. So there's... The first thing is you need to spot what they need

do it. So there's... The first thing is you need to spot what they need from other people. So typically, if I know what you need to be seen as from other people, I know what was probably missing in your childhood right away.

And there's six social needs that we teach at NCI University. And these are significance approval acceptance intelligence pity, and power or strength. And

it's not that I need to be powerful. I know it's not that I need to be significant or accept it. It's I need people to see that I am those things. So the guy that's driving the giant jacked up pickup truck with like

those things. So the guy that's driving the giant jacked up pickup truck with like the plastic nuts hanging off the trailer hitch and the MMA, I fight all the time sticker and the Glock sticker on the back of his truck, all like just Mr. Tough guy. He doesn't have a need to be significant. powerful all the time.

He has a need for you to see him as powerful. And those are two very different things, very different. So if you're just in a casual conversation and you hear somebody say, oh yeah, I've been working there for 20 years and still everybody calls me up. Even after I retire, they still call me and ask for my advice. That's significance. You're hearing significance right away. If you hear, let's just

advice. That's significance. You're hearing significance right away. If you hear, let's just make it a company they used to work for. Somebody says, yeah, I actually worked there for 20 years. It was the greatest group of people. Everybody takes care of each other. Boom, acceptance. You're hearing it right away. Or if you hear somebody say,

each other. Boom, acceptance. You're hearing it right away. Or if you hear somebody say, yeah, I mean, I worked at that company for 20 years, but that doesn't mean I'm gonna be good at the speech tomorrow. I always mess these things up. Just

so you'll say, oh no, Jack, you're gonna do great. You're gonna be really good.

You did great last time. You know your stuff. That's approval. Or you hear somebody say, I've worked at that company 20 years. It was right after I got my master's degree in blank and I wrote my paper on this, which led me to a managerial position over there, intelligence. Or you say, somebody says, I've been working at that company 20 years and they never really pay attention to anybody. It was horrible.

We had horrible hours coming in. We have, our boss was a total asshole and I had to endure that for 20 years. Pity. So the person that's The pity needs person is one of the most confusing. It's not that they want pity.

It's that they want you to understand how bad they had it or how much they went through. And our instinct with a pity person is to say, no, man, it's not that bad. You know, it was pretty good. You got a good paycheck.

You had a good time. Not all the bosses were assholes. That's not what they want. So the moment you do that, it's like them... knocking on your door and

want. So the moment you do that, it's like them... knocking on your door and asking whether or not you're a drug dealer for the drug that they need. And

you're going, no, not me. So that's, I mean, we get dopamine and we get neuropeptides that flood our system when we get what we want socially. And what was the one we left out? Oh, the strength and power. Like I worked at that company 20 years and I was always the boss. Everybody looked up to me. Everybody

asked me for advice. And there was a lot of these little weak guys down in the sales department that couldn't make sales. But I went down there and I told them, You know, just the tough acting people. So that's one way of just seeing what people need socially. We'll ask on pity, what's the best thing to say?

Just simply, that sucks or that sucks because of X, Y, Z. Somebody says like, well, I was in that relationship for way too long and now I'm starting to go to college and now I'm starting to get my own job, but it was still abusive and I still think about it all the time. My response to that person might be like, you know, I think, I don't know how you keep it

together. I think most of these people that see you every day, they have no

together. I think most of these people that see you every day, they have no idea what you've been through and what you've endured to get where you are here today. So add on something and make them feel understood, maybe? Not understood.

today. So add on something and make them feel understood, maybe? Not understood.

You're adding what I covertly said was that other people don't get you. But am

I saying that I get you? Did I say the words, Jack, I totally get you? No. I'm implying it and you putting it together in your own head.

you? No. I'm implying it and you putting it together in your own head.

I'm not saying it out loud. So now it's your own idea, your own thought.

But let's go through these six needs again. So if I'm significance, I'm asking the question, do other people see me as significant? So do other people realize how bad I've had it? Do other people see me as powerful? But each one of those carries with it a childhood wound of something that was missing or something that didn't

get acknowledged. And we carry stuff from childhood way too far into adulthood without

get acknowledged. And we carry stuff from childhood way too far into adulthood without us ever knowing it. And this is all of us. But if I have a significance, identify a significance person within probably 60 seconds in any conversation, you can identify these needs in listening to people. We have a completely free

course at NCI University you can take like instantly that walks you through some really good training on this. But if I know your significance, I know that your fear and your secret insecurity that not even your friends know is feeling insignificant and being left out and not making a difference. It's so clear. And if your

need is acceptance, I automatically know that your insecurity is being left out, being exiled, or being made fun of in front of other people or people laughing at you.

If it's approval, it's that you're always right. All of your insecurities are right. and you're going to mess this up. So people confirming that. And if it's

right. and you're going to mess this up. So people confirming that. And if it's the intelligence thing, it's being seen as stupid or being publicly judged for not being smart. If it's the pity thing, then your secret insecurity is people, no one's gonna

smart. If it's the pity thing, then your secret insecurity is people, no one's gonna know what you've been through to get where you are. No one's gonna acknowledge you ever. No one's gonna understand you. So each one of those, we can see the

ever. No one's gonna understand you. So each one of those, we can see the insecurities very clearly. And there's deeper layer. This is like the preschool level. of this

stuff. And within probably two minutes, just using the system, you can see deeper into a person's life than their family and their best friends. And it's extremely reliable. In our last interview, I asked you to make a few predictions about me

reliable. In our last interview, I asked you to make a few predictions about me without speaking to me. But now that we spent some time together, what would you say my biggest insecurity is? So I would say that your two are probably significance and intelligence. Yep. And it's very clear that

and intelligence. Yep. And it's very clear that your acceptance is not that high. Like people who are more in the acceptance will be more raising their eyebrows sharing conversation. They'll ask for a confirmation. They'll talk about teams. They'll talk about we came out here. We traveled this. We did that. They'll

use a lot more of those pronouns that talk about groups of people. And the

approval people are pretty easy to spot. They're just saying statements to make you go, no, no, no, you're good. So I know that you're automatically within maybe two minutes of meeting you, I would know that your insecurities are feeling like you make no difference at all, that you're insignificant and that people think you're stupid. So that's

pretty fair. Would you say, I don't want to guess yours, but would you say yours is significance related? Yep. Significance intelligence for mine too. I didn't catch intelligence. That's

interesting. But the guy who wrote seven books is That's fair.

Chase, what does where someone sits say about what they want from you?

What do you mean? Like at a table? Just, I guess the way they sit, where they sit, their proximity. I know you talk about proximics. What can

you kind of tell from that? I would say it's hard with sitting because it's If it's a new environment, there's going to be new behaviors, the brain's not adapting yet. I would look over time. So the number one thing you can do when

yet. I would look over time. So the number one thing you can do when you're looking at body language, nonverbal communication is look for changes. So looking

at initial conditions is not always going to give you a good read. So look

how the conversation starts and watch the changes in that person's body as it evolves.

The number one thing you can look at it. Did we talk about blink rate on the last show? Yeah, that's... We spend so much of our time looking in people's eyes and it's an unconscious behavior that you can look that someone blinking more often is stressed, less often is more focused. And your job is to take people's blink rate and lower it through a conversation. So we're not just looking at

a snapshot of fast or slow. We're watching for when does it start speeding up?

When does it start slowing down? If I'm speaking on stage, I'll look out in the crowd. And if I'm looking in people's eyes, like around the room, And as

the crowd. And if I'm looking in people's eyes, like around the room, And as I'm talking, if I see people blinking more often, I'll just change the subject. I'll

raise my voice. I'll jump off the stage and walk around a little bit and I'll regain that focus and then look around the room again and I'll see the blink rate has dropped again. But when you look at a person's body, you want to, I mean, there's a whole lot of things we could look at, like breathing and angles and all this kind of stuff, but you want to look for, are

they leaning back or leaning forward? And one of the biggest things that we teach people in influence of sales and with NCI is that we don't make big decisions with our backs against a chair. It just doesn't happen. So

they teach all these cool closing techniques, exactly what to say to close the sale, but the person's kicked back and like leaned back in a chair. Your goal is to get their body to agree first before their brain does, because that's our first language. I mean, we've been moving our bodies and communicating with each other with bodies

language. I mean, we've been moving our bodies and communicating with each other with bodies for a million years. Who the hell knows how long? But this language thing is very new to us. There's a hierarchical structure in our head for our auditory cortex. We have a visual cortex. We have all this hearing system and sound

auditory cortex. We have a visual cortex. We have all this hearing system and sound processing cortexes, cortices in our brain. There is no structure for language.

None. Not one structure in the human brain for language. There's an area where we kind of default, throw some language skills into. There's two. But we have to understand that we've been communicating with our bodies a long time. So if I want you to do something, I'm going to make sure that your body starts agreeing before I ever ask your brain to start agreeing. So if you're leaned back in a conversation,

I might think that you're a little, you're not, it doesn't mean you're disengaged. Like

don't believe that body language stuff you see on the internet where this always means this. If anything tells you that, It might be crappy, a crappy

this. If anything tells you that, It might be crappy, a crappy source of information. But if I'm seeing someone leaned back and then we have a contract here on the table and I slide this over and say, what do you think about it? Or I hand you a pen or give you a glass of water. I'm going to get you to start leaning forward. That's the only time that

water. I'm going to get you to start leaning forward. That's the only time that I'm going to start talking once your body is doing what I need it to start doing. What can you tell about a person by the way they speak?

start doing. What can you tell about a person by the way they speak?

I would watch for changes again. But if I'm seeing a rapid speech, I know that that's probably how their brain works. And I know that when they really want to stop and make a big decision or I need to convince them to do something, I'm going to have to slow their speech down. over time. And

I'm going to have to set that example of talking slower throughout a conversation so that they start mirroring that behavior a little bit and they start seeing that there's physical permission in front of them to start speaking a little bit slower. There's not

much about a voice by itself that I would say, but let's say you were talking a certain way in the moment that I mentioned one subject, call it whatever you want. Let's say I mentioned a or something and your

you want. Let's say I mentioned a or something and your voice starts speeding up, I'm seeing a change. So like

the first, I don't think people get training in this stuff enough that you read this article on 17 ways to tell when somebody's lying or 12 indicators that he's cheating on you. Like just absolute bullshit articles, which I've written a couple, I know. Like I wrote a couple as I was starting out

just because it gets clicks, but it gives people a little bit of a placebo of understanding. So at the end of the day, if you get good at

of understanding. So at the end of the day, if you get good at detecting changes, then you are better than most people on YouTube that are talking about body language. If you're good at looking for changes and then being able to say,

body language. If you're good at looking for changes and then being able to say, oh, I did this one thing or this topic came up or this thing happened, then I saw the blinking change and the breathing change and the body shifted, the voice change. You just get good at looking for changes and then understand the meaning

voice change. You just get good at looking for changes and then understand the meaning later. Like start looking it up later. Just become a change detective when it comes

later. Like start looking it up later. Just become a change detective when it comes to people and you will be so much better than if you had spent years studying all this body language stuff. I will say that it seems like you do have a couple things that you've noted in the past that are reliable over and over again. Like our last podcast you talked about the things that you could

tell just simply by looking at someone's face like uh the soft uh what are they called the soft under eyes yeah lower eyelid lower eyelids uh if someone conceals their forehead they're less trustworthy that kind of thing um is there anything else like that you've noticed i remember marcel telling a story i don't know if it was about you or about someone else who had a similar skill set to you about

a girl he was dating that uh could tell that she was bulimic or something.

Is there any other things that you look for that are reliable across the board?

I think there's very, very few. And even those little things about wrinkles on the face and all that, I would say those are anecdotes too. They're not hard, fast rules. You have to be doing this stuff for a while. The only way that

rules. You have to be doing this stuff for a while. The only way that I knew somebody was bulimic. It's not because she talked a certain way or anything.

She had one finger on her whole hand where the cuticles were worn down from like acid exposure and you could see little teeth marks on her knuckle on that same finger. That's the only reason I knew that. But being able- How did you

same finger. That's the only reason I knew that. But being able- How did you know to look for that? I didn't. I just saw her hand and I always look at people's hands and I just look around at people. And then there's like a deductive reasoning that happens after that. And I wish there was a way to, maybe there is, but I wish there was a way to write a book about

that where you could just like, oh, you see some shit on somebody's fingernails. Let

me flip to the fingernail section and like find this thing. Maybe there will be someday, but I find it the most difficult thing to teach people because it's just, I think it's just rooted in experience. Like I've never written an article on how to look at bulimia in my lifetime, but I knew that that was bulimia

just by looking at it and using this Maybe it's inductive. I don't know if it's inductive or deductive reasoning that just came naturally because I'm just so obsessed with human behavior as a whole and never judgmental. That's the biggest thing is like, if you're judging people, you're losing the game. It makes you less influential. It makes you

less confident. It makes you less powerful in every situation. But you get to the

less confident. It makes you less powerful in every situation. But you get to the point of like, I wanted to see behind the curtain. I'm when

I was like 19, I wanted to be a psychological voyeur. Like I wanted to see all the stuff I'm not supposed to see with other people. And that just, that's what started me down this path to begin with. I wanted to see all the things that were hidden in plain sight. And one of the reasons like I became a body language guy was just trying to understand girls as a kid. And

like, how do I avoid rejection? How do I know if I'm gonna get rejected by somebody? I think over time, though, it goes in phases. When you first

by somebody? I think over time, though, it goes in phases. When you first learn this stuff, you're hypercritical of yourself. You're like, oh, how am I looking? How

am I sitting? I'm like, adjust myself all the time. And that is so exhausting.

It was two years probably for me of just hypermanaging myself. And

just because you think like everything's such a big deal. And then you think everybody can see what you see, even though they can't. They don't pay attention to it.

So then it becomes like, wow, these people are screwed up. And then the revelation comes like, oh, they're screwed up just like I am. They're a lot like me.

They hide insecurities. They don't forgive themselves. They carry around shame 30, 40 years longer than they should be carrying around that shame. And

you start realizing that we are so, so much alike that it's scary. that we

all hide the same things. We all don't forgive ourselves. We all conceal and pretend like we don't have shame. And even just as a perfect example, if you talk to someone today, if you're listening to the show right now and you talk about there's an epidemic of loneliness, everyone's going to agree with you. Not one of those people are going to come out and say, I'm lonely because we hide it.

We're ashamed of it. But we'll acknowledge that all those other people have that loneliness problem. but nobody wants to talk about it. So you start seeing that like we

problem. but nobody wants to talk about it. So you start seeing that like we are so, so similar. It was a super drawn out answer, but. Can you tell someone's age quickly? Do you have that ability? I think

you just look at somebody's hands and you can see the age. Yeah. What can

you tell about a person by looking at their hands? Like, what are you looking for? I look for handedness. Are they right-handed or left-handed?

for? I look for handedness. Are they right-handed or left-handed?

And look where their watch is. I'm looking at Do they keep their fingernails well?

Do they trim their cuticles? All those kinds of things. Do they have calluses on their fingers? And I just do this as a hobby. Like, it's not like I'm

their fingers? And I just do this as a hobby. Like, it's not like I'm really digging in there. Even when I'm like doing jury selection stuff, I'm not profiling fingernails and stuff like that. It's not that cool. I wish it was that cool, but it's not. And just looking for basic things. Is one hand more tan than the other, which means this person's probably spent a lot of time on the golf

course. Just all those little small things and knowing little facts. Like I know if

course. Just all those little small things and knowing little facts. Like I know if you're not wearing a watch, I know the fingernails on your dominant hand are going to grow about one millimeter per every four months time faster than your other hand. So like the dominant hand is going to grow faster. And just those

other hand. So like the dominant hand is going to grow faster. And just those million little stupid facts like that, that pile up to give you this little arsenal of being able to see almost irrelevant stuff about a person. Am I left-handed or right-handed? I think you're right-handed. Am I wearing any jewelry? Uh, you have a silver

right-handed? I think you're right-handed. Am I wearing any jewelry? Uh, you have a silver bracelet on your left hand last night, but I didn't see anything today. Do I

have rings? You had a aura ring on your left hand. Which finger?

Index. Ah, close. Okay, ring finger. Ring finger. Because you told someone I was married, so I was thinking that you observed that, but that's good stuff. Um... I think I look at hands a lot too, but. We're trained, I

stuff. Um... I think I look at hands a lot too, but. We're trained, I mean, as a species, we're trained to look at hands because that's what's going to attack us. If we meet up with another person, that's going to be the biggest

attack us. If we meet up with another person, that's going to be the biggest threat. So we, our eyes are naturally drawn towards where the weapons could be and

threat. So we, our eyes are naturally drawn towards where the weapons could be and what could be hurting us in the future. How do you know if someone is about to be violent? Is it changes? Yeah, there is a graphic that I'll send you that you can throw up on the screen or make it as a download if you want. But there's four ways that we teach police officers to predict

violence, and it uses the word COPE, C-O-P-E. So it's concealment, oxygenation, preparation, and expenditure, like someone's burning off adrenaline. So there's a few big ones. The first one is that the person's blading their body, and this is typically where their dominant shoulder will move away from you. like this is what I'm going to do if I'm going to get ready to punch you or if

I'm about to draw a weapon, right? I'm going to unconsciously do that. And you'll

see a dominant foot start withdrawing. And some of the others are they're looking at you, but off in the distance, just so they can kind of get you in their peripheral vision and see your entire body. That is a big one that we see in like 80 to 90% of the police body cams that we looked at for to develop this program. These guys would look not directly at the

police officer before they attacked, but like generally like over here so they could see the whole body in periphery. And that was a fantastic one that was happening. Third is, and this is what we taught cops, this may not

was happening. Third is, and this is what we taught cops, this may not be relevant for everybody that's watching, but 90 degree angles, our body doesn't naturally just sit at 90 degree angles unless we're like sitting in a chair, obviously we're making a 90 degree, but our arms and legs, not really. You cannot draw a weapon

from concealment without making a 90 degree angle with your arms. So like we train the police officers to be hyper aware of that. Go ahead and try it.

I know you're thinking of scenarios right now. There's 90. We draw from the front, 90. Draw from ankle holster, 90. So

90. Draw from ankle holster, 90. So

those 90 degrees are important, but really it's just blading body and watching the person to see if they're trying to look calm. So if I know I'm about to do an attack or if I'm really scared and I'm about to attack you, the adrenaline spikes inside of me, the epinephrine, and that produces a demand for oxygen. So

that makes my nostrils flare. And in the body language nerd world, they call this wing dilation, if you ever want to look that up. But it causes a lot of things to happen. It causes my eyes to blink more often. So I'm seeing the higher stress and I'm seeing somebody like either bounce on their feet or fidget down by their legs. in a way that they weren't before. So if we started

a conversation, you've been fidgeting the whole time, I'm going to ignore it because we're in the business of change, right? I want to see this starting to build up.

So some of these things building up. So I want to watch for the little signs that a person is doing repetitive behaviors to burn off adrenaline. And that is one of the most common. So those are probably the four most common things that we've seen. There's about 17 on the graphic that I'll send you, but those are

we've seen. There's about 17 on the graphic that I'll send you, but those are the four big ones. So you cover... concept of COPE and a lot of other things in the behavior ops manual. We have a copy here. What else is in this big ass book? Everything is in that big ass

book. Is this everything you know about behavior pretty much? Yeah, that's pretty much everything.

book. Is this everything you know about behavior pretty much? Yeah, that's pretty much everything.

And about six years ago, maybe a little less, I started having seizures. And it was like three or four seizures a day.

And then it started getting worse. And these were like absence temporal lobe seizures. So

it's not like you're falling on the ground and jiggling all over the place. And

these temporal lobe seizures almost always come with amnesia. So the seizure like erases itself from your memory. So I didn't know that I was having seizures and everybody knew that I'd studied neuroscience and all this other stuff, medical neuroscience.

So they assumed, yeah, if something's wrong with Chase's brain, Chase is going to know.

Chase is going to go see a neurologist. And then one time, I don't remember when it was, I was just sitting in my parents' house. I

was visiting my parents in Texas, sitting in their house, in their kitchen. And I

was talking to them and they were saying something. And I just kind of zoned out like this. And then I had to go lay down and they described what happened to me. And I knew like, wow, I had a seizure. And like, that was the first realization. It was like a year and a half I'd been having these. And finally, someone described it. So I got

these. And finally, someone described it. So I got diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy. And then

I went and got a scan. So I'm fast forwarding and kind of Tarantino-ing this, kind of going back and forth. But I got diagnosed temporal lobe epilepsy and then found out that it's associated with this other thing called mesial temporal sclerosis, which is where your temporal lobe, which is where we have our hippocampus, where we have memories and all this kind of stuff. And where spiritual things happen in your brain at

this place in your brain called the temporal parietal junction. And I found out that I have this sclerosis where your cells are essentially committing suicide, like a neuron killing itself. because it thinks it's damaged, so it kills itself and then sets off a cascade of lots of neurons doing that. So I thought that

just looking at prognosis and best worst case scenario situations, I was like, I might have maybe a year and a half to two years left of being a functional human being. So I dumped everything that I was desperate for. I'm not going to

human being. So I dumped everything that I was desperate for. I'm not going to be able to feed my kids. I'm not going to be able to take care of my family. I wanted my wife and kids to be able to have something.

So I just dumped every single piece of knowledge that I've ever been trained in, that I've ever learned into one giant book, just in case. So at least like if, if I was gone, like mentally just gone, like scooting around in the house in a wheelchair, you know, who knows, but I, they at least had this, that they could go advertise it. They could, you know, run ads, they could do stuff

to kind of at least sell this one physical product. that people could buy. And

it literally is almost everything that I've ever taught is all in here. Everything I've

ever learned about behavior is all in there. The models, the techniques, the tactics. I

feel crazy for putting that much into a book. And it sounds like some shit somebody would say, like, oh, let me market the book. That is all of it.

That book even goes into how to use ultrasonic frequencies and all of the stuff that people are like think of really weird stuff, it's all inside that book. Ultrasonic

frequencies. It all goes in. So to know if someone might need that book, what's a sign someone is easy to manipulate? I think if a person's got a brain, they're easy to manipulate. We don't have a firewall and we don't have like an antivirus program that we can put into our head. But if you're looking for

somebody with high suggestibility, You want to spot the people that raise their eyebrows in conversations more often. You'll see that like social gesture. And our forehead is a billboard of emotion. We show anger. We show happiness. We show skepticism, all that stuff with our forehead. And this big eyebrow flash is how we communicate, I'm

not threatening and I'm not here to hurt you or I agree with you. And

that's probably the biggest. So we can see that from a long way away. smooth

lower eyelids. I know we've talked about it before, but when a person doesn't have a lot of creases in this little lower part of the eye down here, you're going to see a person who is a lot more suggestible. And I've confirmed this with more than 5,000 people who went under hypnosis. And

it wasn't me. It's like I talked to two guys who hypnotized people for a living and had them run through every single person they took under hypnosis and verified it. So, Let me just explain that if I can, because it sounds like

verified it. So, Let me just explain that if I can, because it sounds like some weird fortune cookie kind of stuff. If a person is happy their whole life and they're always smiling, you'll see these little crow's feet that start to develop here. Even by the age of 18, 19, you'll see them. It's not like

develop here. Even by the age of 18, 19, you'll see them. It's not like that's aging. It's your etching and expression onto the face. If somebody's mad all the

that's aging. It's your etching and expression onto the face. If somebody's mad all the time, their eyebrows are down like this, you'll see these little lines coming here start to become permanent and this is called the glabella so you'll see these two lines and there's a lot of emotions that if we experience all the time you're going to see it on the face but if i told you to make a skeptical

facial expression like somebody's really feeding you something and trying to manipulate you and you're really skeptical about what they're saying it's going to squeeze these eyelids down here it's the first thing that'll happen on the face and it's so we can kind of narrow our focus in on something to squeeze it down So when a person's hyper skeptical, I don't even know if that's a word, but you're going to see those

wrinkles start to form down here. And when a person experiences a life that's lacking lots of skepticism, you'll see the lower eyelid super, super smooth. This is my opinion.

So it's not like I've done some peer reviewed research on any of this. I

don't care about that stuff, but I've done my own research throughout my life and it is very provable if you go look up on go google charles manson cult members smooth lower eyelids you go watch one of those ads for uh any any group like any cult you're gonna see

the smooth lower eyelids in there my lower eyelids are really smooth i'm a very suggestible person are mine really smooth yeah so and i think there's a degree which having high suggestibility makes you open to a lot of things in your life. Because a lot of people, if you're highly skeptical, you're going to close yourself

life. Because a lot of people, if you're highly skeptical, you're going to close yourself off to things. You're going to be a little more closed off to all kinds of situations in your life. You'll say no more often, but you'll probably not have as fun a life as other people. So I think I like being a highly suggestible person. Do you think it makes you learn faster? Yes. I do think it

suggestible person. Do you think it makes you learn faster? Yes. I do think it makes you learn faster because you believe it faster. You don't need extra learning to go just to prove yourself to believe something. And that held a lot of people back that I knew going through school. They're like, well, I don't know how this neuron can do this if it's not doing this. And I was just like, I

just believe it. And then I'll learn that other stuff later. So I'll believe it first. And that helped me go through school a lot. And I think just being

first. And that helped me go through school a lot. And I think just being suggestible, I think, makes for a better life. Yes, every once in a while, you're going to buy some stupid shit on Instagram. But overall, I think it makes for a better life. Not mentioning elicitation here, how do you get someone to reveal what they want from you? Oh, like what

they're trying to get out of me?

I don't know. I would say if I was in a conversation with somebody, I would typically refocus all topics about the outcome and what outcome, what would be the best outcome. you or what are you aiming towards? I would be very direct about

best outcome. you or what are you aiming towards? I would be very direct about it. If someone's trying to get sensitive information out of me, I would call out

it. If someone's trying to get sensitive information out of me, I would call out the script right away. So the moment that it started, if I knew like you and I were talking and you were trying to get sensitive information out of me, the first thing I might say is like, wow, you've got a very, and I'll compliment your technique. You've got a very good technique for getting information out of people.

That's your, I can tell that you're very well trained. When you call attention to a tactic being done, it takes the power away from that tactic completely.

So like if somebody shakes your hand really hard and they're trying to be like super, like pretend alpha male, just calling attention to that takes all the power out of it. So like they shake your hand and you're like, wow, that's a really powerful handshake. I read online that that's like an alpha male move, that only alpha males do that. but you're kind of

complimenting them in a way where they're like, oh shit, like everything that I was doing unconsciously is now conscious. So

the number one intelligence tactic was come up by Carl Jung. And Carl Jung had a quote that said, until you make the unconscious conscious,

Jung. And Carl Jung had a quote that said, until you make the unconscious conscious, it will dictate your life and you will call it fate. So

what I do when I train any intelligence people, and there's some training online that you can get that's like declassified, but there's still some stuff that's behind a wall that talks about getting these scripts out on the table. So anything that's unconscious, you make it conscious. So even in a conversation like this, If I just

didn't know how to call out your script right away, but I just knew how to make something in me unconscious and I'd like take it out. Let's say we're talking to each other. You're talking to me and I said, wow, it feels like I'm just revealing a whole lot of sensitive information here. It feels like I'm giving away a whole lot of info. And if I see you get nervous, that's automatically

going to make me hyper aware of what's going on. And it's going to make me very resistant to doing anything in the future. Make the unconscious conscious. How do

you get a woman? tell you what she wants? I think

even God would not be able to answer that question.

I'm tempted to just leave it at that, but I guess you're a married man if you want to know where she wants to go to dinner, something like that.

There is a difference between what she wants and what she will respond to.

And those are two different things. what she says she wants. What's the most effective interrogation technique besides elicitation?

wants. What's the most effective interrogation technique besides elicitation?

How to use silence as a placeholder for you to think and process what someone says. And there's all these YouTube videos out there of like these

someone says. And there's all these YouTube videos out there of like these conversation experts that are telling you to pause for two seconds to regain control of a conversation. Pause for two seconds and the other person's going to start speaking. If

a conversation. Pause for two seconds and the other person's going to start speaking. If

you use silence as a tactic, it's going to look manipulative. But

if you genuinely are comfortable enough where you can pause for a few seconds to consider what someone's saying while you're nodding your head, you're going to get a wildly different response. There's way too many people out there teaching silence as a tactic. instead

different response. There's way too many people out there teaching silence as a tactic. instead

of silence as a part of conversation, a part of conversation that I'm comfortable with.

So just letting the silence linger for a few seconds while you're processing what they're saying and nodding your head will do way more than using it as a little trick. Can you show me an example of how that might be effective? Yeah. So

trick. Can you show me an example of how that might be effective? Yeah. So

tell me about the trip you just took to Detroit. Was it Detroit? We went

from Chicago to Detroit. Okay.

Where do we stay at? I can't even remember. It was alright. I think we had decent flights. I don't think we sat next to each other. It was a pretty quick trip. Got a good amount of work done for the podcast I was doing in Detroit. Yeah, we got settled at a hotel. We were staying at a casino. It was a fairly good time. It sounds like a good trip.

I'd say it was alright. Yeah, I don't know. I wasn't a huge fan of the hotel. It kind of smelled like cigarettes.

the hotel. It kind of smelled like cigarettes.

The podcast was a little shorter than I might have wanted it to be.

But overall, it was pretty good. The guest was sorry about him not being able to extend it longer, and I think he was conscious of that. So that made me feel a bit better about it. It's always good. So that's it. that was

a combination of elicitation, which I said, it sounds like, so I used a statement to get you to keep talking. And the last statement I said at the very end was elicitation. That's never good. Or I don't know what I said, but that pause of just being like, I'm interested in what you're saying. And I'm not sitting here with a straight face and like staring you in the face, like an asshole.

And the people who use it as a tactic, they have a tendency to just sit there straight faced. If you're interested in the other person genuinely and you take the time to stop and really just process what they're saying, then you're going to nod your head because you're starting to process those things in real life. Not because

you're pretending to process those things. Like the nodding and the silence should be a byproduct of your level of interest in that other person. And it looks and feels very different when you do it because you're interested in somebody. That is really fascinating.

Yeah, I guess... maybe talking about myself too much, but I feared that the way I come off as a podcast host seems like I'm not interested sometimes. So

I feel like I used to over calibrate in the other direction and just constantly saying like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, like things like that. But now I just kind of really try to have people on that I find super interesting. So at least it comes off as genuine, but I still don't know if it comes off well. I

can give you a few tips right now. Sure. You can put them in the show or take them out. Yeah, yeah. So I would move anything that we have in between us and another person, we refer to as a barrier. Fair. So in

all nonverbal communication, people talk about that. Second is whatever, I've never seen your notes before. We have it like sit down beforehand and like, okay, here's what I'm going

before. We have it like sit down beforehand and like, okay, here's what I'm going to ask you. I had no idea what you're going to ask. But when you have your notes, try to use a minimum amount of words. Like, If you have a seven word sentence, see if you can strike five of them and only have two words. That's going to make you more conversational. It's just going to remind your

two words. That's going to make you more conversational. It's just going to remind your brain so that you're not overly consumed with worried about like, okay, when he's done talking, I have to ask about this one thing. And you're better than like 90% of these podcast hosts. But I see some people that are just like waiting for me to finish talking so they can get to the next question. That is way

too often. But go through your notes and strip every single

too often. But go through your notes and strip every single word that doesn't directly contribute to your memory recall of what the question is truly about, the heart of that question. So that there's no more question marks, there's no more full sentences, just a few words to jog your memory. It's going to make you way more present in the conversation and it's going to help you like, I

only see two words here that forces your brain to come up with a sentence.

Does that make sense? Yeah. That's really interesting. I think I have gotten better about it as a consequence of caring less about short form content with the podcast. Because with short form content, you have to be very particular about getting the

podcast. Because with short form content, you have to be very particular about getting the words exactly right. But with long form content, it's a little more. Let's stick to one topic and make sure we really hone in on it. Chase, you said that it's hard to change a belief in someone. Do you think it would be easier for you to change a belief in me? or determine if I'm lying to you?

It'd be easier to tell if you're lying. Okay.

I'll give you three things. Do you know what makes nonverbal behavior come out of a person during a lie? I don't. Stakes.

So let me give you two scenarios. Let's say we have a person over here and we have another person over here. You and I are just the observers. And

we slide this person over here a picture of a duck. And underneath it, it says, your job is to convince this person that you're looking at a horse. Okay?

And they're like, okay, I see a horse and it's got a tail. And this

person over here is going, yeah, what does that tail look like? What color is that tail? Like, oh, it's brown like the rest of the horse. And he's got

that tail? Like, oh, it's brown like the rest of the horse. And he's got a mane. No stakes. It's like if they fail this thing, it's not a big

a mane. No stakes. It's like if they fail this thing, it's not a big deal. The reason that we talk about these indicators of deception is is

deal. The reason that we talk about these indicators of deception is is because A, there is not one indicator of deception. It doesn't exist. There are no deceptive body language cues. What we're really seeing is stress. And we experience stress when there's stakes, there's something on the line. So if you're ever at a party or

something and you want to like play that game with someone, if you put something on the line, you're much more likely to increase the stakes, which increases those stress output behaviors. So As a quick tip for the audience, if you're questioning someone and you're building up to that one big question, you

raise the stakes right before you ask the question. So I might say something like, Jack, we've done two podcasts together now. I've gotten to know you a lot. I

like you as a person, which is why I want to say, before I ask this question and before you answer it, I want you to think very, very carefully about your answer. And that raises the stakes. That's making the question vitally important. And I didn't need to do much. Would that make a person do better

important. And I didn't need to do much. Would that make a person do better or worse? Or does it depend? If they're lying, they're going to do worse.

or worse? Or does it depend? If they're lying, they're going to do worse.

Right. So it's a good way to catch someone in a lie. So what stakes could we add to this before I give you three sentences? Okay. So let's also put $100 on it. $100? Yeah. Make it $1,000? There we go. All

right. A thousand dollars. Oh, shit. Okay. I'm not going to say how many lies are in here or if they're all true, et cetera. Just

determine if I'm lying to you. Okay. And I can read them to you and answer questions about them. I have less than $200,000 in my bank account. Okay. I wear lifts in my shoes to make myself taller. I slept by my mom

until middle school. Okay. The second one is false.

And they, you closed your mouth faster than everything else. You only nodded your head three times. Everything else, you nodded your head about four times. And I would say

three times. Everything else, you nodded your head about four times. And I would say you might have that much money in your checking account, but it doesn't mean that's how much you have to your name. So that one, I would want to question you a little bit more. And so I would ask Jack, when you say that money is in your checking account, is that the amount that's in there right now?

Or is that the amount that you have to your name? I have less than 200K in my bank account specifically. So let me ask you a hypothetical. If you were calling your bank right now and you asked them for your

hypothetical. If you were calling your bank right now and you asked them for your balance, I just want you to go through that in your head. How many digits would that be if you asked the bank for your balance right now? Six?

That's false. So that's absolutely false, what you're saying now.

What? What was it? What might have thrown off is it's two, like it's like a checking and a savings and it's their five digits, but they add up to six. So that might have. That's what I was talking about with checking versus savings. Okay. Yeah. So if you go back through your entire podcast, every time that you're recalling memory about numbers or words, you're down

here. And when I just asked you this one question, I think the confusion was

here. And when I just asked you this one question, I think the confusion was you were imagining checking versus savings instead of the actual balance. So your eyes went up here. I think I was adding numbers up, maybe. Yeah. You might've been doing

up here. I think I was adding numbers up, maybe. Yeah. You might've been doing some mental math in your head. So anything where you're looking down and left, we typically access, and there's a bunch of shit online where they talk about, like, this is creative and this is the logical side. And you'll hear that's all don't believe that anymore. But the two that I do still believe, and Greg Hartley on the

that anymore. But the two that I do still believe, and Greg Hartley on the behavior panel, who's our other YouTube channel that we have with four behavior experts, made me, evangelized me into this idea of purely believing it. When we look down and right, for almost everybody, we're accessing an emotional memory.

And we look down and left, we're accessing some kind of internal dialogue. So

like if I asked you, From your own mind, what is the first thing William, my son, said to you last night when he came downstairs? Ah, yo, bro, there's no way you're here.

downstairs? Ah, yo, bro, there's no way you're here.

Yeah. So that's external dialogue, and you can't predict where a person's eyes are going.

So, like, do you remember just a few seconds ago how you proposed the question to me about the three truths and a lie or whatever it was with it?

asking me to identify a deceptive statement. There, down and left. That's internal dialogue. Because

you went into your own words just now. Does that make sense? Yeah.

And let's say, what is one of the times that one of your friends made you feel special when you were a little kid? There's down

and right. That's emotion. So those are very, very reliable. So now if I ask you, Is there a Burger King within six miles of where you live in California? No. So up and right.

in California? No. So up and right.

Is there a fast food place within six miles of where you live in California?

Yes. You can think of it right now? Yeah. What's across the street from it?

Maybe like a surf shop, I think. Right. So like this is visual spatial memory.

This is Rope memory. So your eyes are kind of moving in different directions and there's no way to predict it. There is only, I think there are only two reliable directions we move our eyes. And that's down left when we have some internal dialogue going on in our head. We're thinking about our own words and down right when something emotional is happening. And that

doesn't give you the keys to the kingdom. I remember asking someone about something once, uh, there had something happened at a house where a person was hurt real bad.

And I asked this person, like, I want to talk to you about the backyard of that house specifically. And they went downright. And I was like, Oh shit, I got them. Like they have an emotional memory there. And obviously they were, they hadn't

got them. Like they have an emotional memory there. And obviously they were, they hadn't been there in years. They hadn't been there a long time. That perfect alibi at, They were totally innocent. So later on, we had a follow-up and I asked them like, when I asked you about the yard, the backyard of that house, what came up for you? They're like, oh, when I was a kid, my dad and I

used to play catch out in that backyard. So there's an emotional memory that came up. It doesn't mean that, it doesn't give you the keys to understand what's going

up. It doesn't mean that, it doesn't give you the keys to understand what's going on, but you know there's something there. But that's all you kind of get. So

it's like a little emotional metal detector. Like, you know there's something there, but you need to dig to figure out what it actually is. Chase, if you could only know three things about a person to determine how successful they'll be, what three things would you want to know? Number one, their level of

ability to delay gratitude. Absolutely number one. Gratitude or

gratification? Gratification. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. That's great. Yeah. Can I delay gratification and fulfillment? So can I sacrifice present tense? me's priorities and place

and fulfillment? So can I sacrifice present tense? me's priorities and place future me priorities above that. So that's number one. Number two,

to determine whether or not they're successful is their own level of enjoyment in things that other people would not be willing to do. So are they able to do things that they don't want to do? So in the moment, can they put away their clothes at the end of the day? Can they wash the dishes and not leave huge messes for themselves? Can they handle their business? on that level. And number

three, and maybe this is the most important, I don't know, I'm not putting these in the hierarchical order. Do they want to look successful more than be successful? You see these people that start out with these companies and the first thing

successful? You see these people that start out with these companies and the first thing that they do is I'm gonna go buy a Ferrari. I'm gonna go, I can afford it, so I'm gonna go buy it. I can afford a Porsche, that Porsche GTRX, whatever number it is, and I'm gonna go buy that thing. And that, I

don't know, 200K that they spent could have easily been reinvested in their business and they decide not to do that. So those are the top three things, I think. Can you prioritize your future self? Do you handle yourself when nobody's looking? And

think. Can you prioritize your future self? Do you handle yourself when nobody's looking? And

would you rather be successful or look successful at the beginning? I love those.

I've never heard the second one you mentioned. That's particularly fascinating.

But... Chase, what's the best piece of dating advice you've ever received?

I found an old book of yours, by the way. Yeah. I think the best advice I ever received was that using tricks and tactics are all ways to fake like you have your shit together.

And I showed a pickup artist book to my mentor one time when I was really excited about this stuff. I was really into it for a little while. And

he challenged me, he said, flip to a random page in this pickup book and show me how it's not a way to fake like you're a real man. And

I was like, oh yeah, easy. And I couldn't do it. And that was a crippling blow to my level of certainty that you could just kind of tactic your way through life. So the best piece of dating advice I ever got was handle your shit like separately. You have your own life all the time

and always, always be more okay with not having sex than she is.

That's a good one. Yeah. I'm not sure how much you want to talk about that book, but I was reading through it and I was like, this shit's really golden. Yeah. It was tactics. Do you think like any tactics are useful? I

golden. Yeah. It was tactics. Do you think like any tactics are useful? I

think tactics are useful once you have the cause of those tactics down.

So, Typically, when you see those tactics, that's a byproduct of just being a man.

It's a byproduct of having your shit together. It's a byproduct of living a life of discipline. But you're just saying, like, I don't need to go do all of

of discipline. But you're just saying, like, I don't need to go do all of this weightlifting stuff. I can just get toilet paper and stick it under my sleeve and look, and it's going to look like a bicep for a few minutes. But

the muscles are a byproduct of having discipline. So,

think a lot of the a lot of the pickup stuff that I studied back in the day and this was maybe a year or so I thought it was really cool until I realized it's just faking because I'm trying to fake someone into thinking that I am that I have my shit together that I that I am disciplined so it's just kind of like gluing feathers onto you it's

kind of like becoming a decorator crab have you ever seen those crabs they put stuff all over their shell uh look like something else, to look super special instead of having the root cause of all those things. Yeah. That's fascinating. Just to give an example that I recall from the text I'd read was you, a guy sets himself up in a scenario and he goes over to a girl

and says, hey, me and my friend were just debating about this. Do you guys believe in ghosts? And it was the fact that you called them guys instead of, hey, ladies, you know, the fact that you said me and my friend were debating about something that is something that an actual man would do naturally. You know, he would just genuinely as a by-product. Exactly. Yeah. Um, I think one of the lines

we used to use back in the day was, um, my friend and I have in a debate, does the Batman costume have nipples on it or not? And that

would always be a debate, but I'll tell you the best pickup line I've ever heard in my lifetime. And now it's going to get out, but, uh, It's asking a woman to look around the room and tell you who is real and who's completely fake. So like you might just ask a stranger, be like,

hey, you know, like there's pretty women all over this planet. Like they're a dime a dozen. But just looking around, how do I tell when someone's like a total

a dozen. But just looking around, how do I tell when someone's like a total POS or like a total narcissist and somebody who's actually genuine?

And it is... you'll get so much education. They're going to teach you things that you've never heard of, but it's also

education. They're going to teach you things that you've never heard of, but it's also almost irresistible. They're going to be like, okay, come here. You see this bitch over

almost irresistible. They're going to be like, okay, come here. You see this bitch over there? And they're going to start going around the room, like picking these women apart.

there? And they're going to start going around the room, like picking these women apart.

And they will give you these little insights like, wow, I've never even thought to consider thinking down that direction that they're talking about. So it's really cool. Like you get a lot of insight and it's almost like an irresistible topic

cool. Like you get a lot of insight and it's almost like an irresistible topic of conversation at the same time. I thought you were hinting at first asking them, who do you think is an NPC, like not part of this reality and like who's a real person? And I was like, I could see that working. But what

you said, that makes a lot of sense too. Who's the shopkeeper?

Chase, I find it fascinating that the book you have here, you wrote knowing that you might not be here with us anymore because of your brain disorder.

And it was something you wanted to leave to your family, both as accumulation of knowledge that you've acquired over the years, as well as a financial gift to make sure that they're taken care of. But if all your books, videos, tweets were erased from the internet forever, and all you had were the

next 60 seconds, what's the one truth about humans that you would lead to the world? You're supposed to enjoy it.

It's supposed to be a game. Nothing is a big deal.

Beautiful. Well, everyone, this has been your guest, Chase Hughes.

This is the Jack Nail Podcast. Appreciate you coming on. Yeah. Thank you.