Brendan Fraser & Dwayne Johnson | Actors on Actors

- The secret is we would be doing this whether they paid us or not.

- If you think he's not gonna be hungry anymore.

(laughs) Not him.

- When I was at the premier, I met the guys who were doing the CGI and they were like, "We needed more time."

- Yes. (laughs)

(bright upbeat music) - And like all actors, we smile, we breathe.

And, hi Dwayne.

- Uh-huh. Hi, good to see you. (laughs)

- Good to see you. - Good to see you, brother.

I'd love to start off our conversation by giving you flowers, okay?

I'm gonna deliver a lot of flowers to your doorstep right now.

So, I feel like, you know, every time I see you, and every time we talk it, we hug, we catch up and, but ultimately, I always feel like it's a full circle moment because you and I first connected on "The Mummy Returns".

- [Brendan] Right.

- And that was one of the biggest franchises in the world at that time in our industry.

Beloved around the world.

You were the face of that franchise.

And the flowers I wanna give is, I was ready to make my transition into Hollywood and I was excited and I had this opportunity to be casted in your movie as the Scorpion King.

And I remember meeting with Stephen Summers, our director, and met with all the folks at Universal.

And I was so excited.

But I knew because they told me, "You know, uh, we're just gonna talk to Brendan."

'Cause I said, "Hey, how does, is this okay?"

And they said, "Well, we're gonna talk to him."

So there was a moment, I feel like, where, you could have said, "Hey, listen, I love this idea of a character called the Scorpion King.

But this guy, Dwayne Johnson, he's never acted before.

I know he's in pro wrestling, I'm not quite too sure."

This is a beloved franchise.

Felt like "Raiders of the Lost Ark."

And the word that I got back was, "Brendan loves the idea. He welcomes you with open arms." And it really meant something to me because not only was it your franchise and you took a shot and a risk with me who had never acted back then, but also that kicked off my career.

And it went from "The Mummy Returns" to then "The Scorpion King" to years later, you and I are sitting here.

And I just as always, but now here, I wanna say thank you, man.

And thank you for in a way, in a big way, really changing my life 'cause the trajectory that you allowed to happen led me to be here.

- You're too kind, Dwayne.

You were always the right guy for the job.

When I was told that you were a possibility for it.

Forgive me, but I didn't know you from the wrestling world.

- Yeah?

- And when I was shown, I said, "That is perfect. That is inspired casting.

That's fantastic. - Wow.

- We'd be lucky to get the guy.

- Wow. (laughs) - No, seriously.

I mean, come on.

Because it felt like you need a stadium persona performance to give to play a villain you love to hate.

- Right.

- And to introduce yourself into that franchise, it's gonna take a lot of confidence and belief that yeah, you could take on all the big scary bad guys and fight them back and do all of the action and everything.

And also you presented a formidable foe to the characters in the movie.

I mean, Imhotep was the heavy.

- Right. - Right.

But we needed someone bigger and badder than Imhotep.

And who are you gonna get?

They got you, dude. - Oh man.

- It worked out the best for everyone. You are a gentleman.

Because I promise you what you did in the wrestling world, you were painting with like a 10-inch brush.

- Right. - You know? Large.

- Yes. - You need to. Big energy

And then, to step into roles in front of a camera, you need a, you know, a different format camera.

- Sure. - You need to pair it down.

Get out the sabilines and you know?

- That's right. Yeah. - And do that kind of work.

- Yes.

- But you still have to have both abilities.

And you did and you do. And it gets better.

Your paintings are getting better all the time.

- Aw, thank you, man. - I mean it.

- Thank you so much.

- I've seen "Smashing Machine."

- I know. (laughs)

(Brendan chuckles) I know.

By the way, thank you for all the support on "Smashing Machine".

And, you know, "Smashing Machine", as you know, we've talked about.

- Yeah. - This was my first foray into this level of drama.

- Right. - And that I had wanted and I was running towards and waiting for this opportunity.

- [Brendan] Yeah.

- And I get to the Toronto Film Festival and the film ends and the audience is clapping.

- They were on the feet.

- (laughs) I was...

And we're getting whisked on the stage.

And who was right there?

Not only who was right there, but who actually stepped in the line of traffic to stop me.

And it was you with the biggest smile and the biggest hug.

- You nailed it, dude. - Dude. (laughs)

- You nailed it.

I was like, "Geez, you got me in the feels."

- Yeah. - And I felt the pain of that man.

- I'll be here.

I'm feeling really good. I appreciate it.

Well, you know, like a day without pain is like a day without sunshine. (chuckles)

- Not only just the physical pain, which was formidable.

And I know Dwayne's a big strong guy, but hard knocks hurt.

And that's not the real pain that you had on board to play that role. - That's right.

- That guy was accustomed to getting hurt.

It's kind of what he did for a living, right?

- Yes. - But the real pain was the, you know, emotional stuff.

- The inside. - Yeah.

- Yeah. - Do you ever feel like, it's okay man, you can throw me off the back of a moving vehicle or light me on fire, or knock the crap outta me all afternoon, just don't say anything mean to me.

- Yes. - 'Cause that'll really hurt.

- Yes. - You know?

- By the way, and that's the vulnerability part.

- Yes. - Yeah.

- That's who he was. - Yes.

I got sick. I got sick.

And it was pretty unbelievable.

- Yeah. It was pretty bad.

- That's the right word. It was bad.

- Mm-mm. - Yeah.

- And I understand too, a little bit to a degree, what it's like to be relied on, to be the guy who's not allowed to show that pain.

- Mm. You do know that, yeah.

- To a lesser degree than I'm sure than your good self.

But hey, look, we're human.

And at the end of the day, you're gonna need an ice bag.

Maybe a cup of chamomile tea, - Yes, man. - Someone to kiss you on the forehead and say, "It's gonna be okay."

- Yes. Well, let me ask you.

When did you start to understand, oh, wait a second.

Two parts of my question then is I'm not allowed to- - Show it? - Show it.

- Yeah. Reveal.

- To reveal that stuff.

And it's not what people expect of me.

I always tell people, don't get it twisted.

Brendan, you're a big guy. You're a very big man.

And there's a big presence to you where for years, you're right.

Audiences, you weren't allowed in a way to show it, to reveal it.

So, not only when did you, when did you understand that?

When did you get it?

But then also when was the turning point where you went, "Well, you know what?

I wanna perform now for an audience of one.

And that's for me. And I wanna be able to reveal it."

- That's a good question.

And you know, the death of a thousand cuts and all, it adds up, right?

And then there comes a point where you fall apart.

And I guess around 2007 or '08 or '09, around there, I was doing a movie in Sault Ste. Marie

in Canada, in Ontario.

And it was a low budget thing.

And we were rolling around in streams and off of mountains and kind of making stuff up as we go along.

And I was playing hurt, you know?

But pretending that I wasn't.

- Yes. - And the movie ended.

And I just, I thought, you know, I'm...

I gotta try, I'm really, I'm getting too old for this shit.

Like, it's starting to catch up with me.

I felt like if I'm gonna continue, then I have to have a real reckoning with myself about why I'm you know, getting banged around and bruised.

And yeah, of course, we have stunt men who are there and coordinators, and they're really there for your safety.

I never met a stunt man that's glad to get injured.

You know, they're- - Right.

- Like, you know? - Sure.

- So, I had to actually ask myself a real serious question that I'd been avoiding which is, why am I doing this?

Like, why am I?

I shouldn't necessarily be, I'm not that accident prone.

I mean, I am a large klutz, but I had to take ownership of the reason, and that was, I was trying too hard.

- Ah. - I was trying too hard.

- Yes.

I was feeling like unless it hurts, then I'm not doing my job.

I'm not earning my keep.

- Yes.

- And that kind of idea is what I saw in your work in "Smashing Machine."

Because we feel for the invulnerable, supposedly invulnerable Titan.

But how do you bring him down?

With, you know, an Achilles heel.

Just some, a minor injury takes them apart.

- [Dwayne] Yes.

- And what is the fallout afterwards?

- Yeah. - What who's relying on you?

And when you went through that one stadium shot.

Was it like a, when Benny Safdie directed, it was, did he always want it to be like a oner?

Did he always want, you came from the?

- He did. Yeah.

- So, it was kinda like a Scorsese-esque sort of?

- Like Scorsese, "Raging Bull" were some of his- - Right.

- Benny Safdie, some of his inspirations.

That shot in particular, yes, it was, he wanted it to be a oner, one long shot.

- Yeah. - Because Mark Kerr, the man who I played- - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Just experienced his first loss.

And in that, he wanted to not cut away.

And where is this gonna lead to?

It led right to the locker room.

- Right to the locker room and then you fell apart.

(Mark sobbing) That release of nodding, not allowing your oneself to be vulnerable publicly on display to do that, for instance, in any way, leaving the ring, coming all the way through the audience, through the stadium.

Everyone back there, everyone knows what just happened.

And everyone's looking towards Mark to see how he's gonna take it.

And no one wants to talk about birdcage, you know?

- Yes.

- And the stoicism behind that seems like, the way you played that scene, that was harder than actually the loss.

- Yes. - The pain that you felt for what you've been up to for the previous hour.

When you have to keep it together and not let anyone know until the whole house of cards falls apart.

That was when I went, "Oh man, Dwayne, you've done it. You're here."

- Aw, man. - You know, I did. I knew.

I just like, look at me.

I was like- - Thank you so much.

- Yeah. - Thank you.

But, you know, it means so much coming from you and the acknowledgement of it, but also that for me, that particular scene, it's what I feel like my life- - Yeah. - Had come to in a way.

- Yeah. - Had come to in a way.

Meaning like, "Oh, wait, no, no, no."

There's, you realize that in life there's, no one wants to lose. - No.

- So, you know, we wanna win.

Everyone wants to pick up the W but you realize, and we all realize that it's not wins and losses, man.

It's just pressure.

And it's the pressure to uphold the pressure, to deliver the pressure, to take care of ourselves, family kids, this relationship.

I mean, everything is just the pressure.

There's this great quote from Floyd Patterson who was this heavyweight.

And he just, I'm paraphrasing here, but he says, "Man, when you win and you win in the ring, what a walk going back to the locker room."

What a walk.

You take your time, you take it all in.

- Take it in. - You're bleeding.

Doesn't matter. Bruised up. - Don't hurt.

- He said, but if you lose, he goes, "Man, I wish there was a trap door in the ring."

- (exhales sharply) Wow.

- Where I could just- - Just fall into the earth and disappear.

- And disappear and I never have to do that again.

Just never.

And so, what I felt in that particular scene was there was a connection to my life in terms of just, things could be so loud and noisy in our world.

But yet at the same time, we can feel lonely.

And we can feel- - Yeah.

- Alone. - Yeah.

- And in that moment, especially if you deal with the loss or pressure?

Things are so pressurized, you can feel alone.

- Loneliness isn't something that actually is a public health concern.

- Yes. - I believe.

And I will say in "Rental Family," - I was just gonna bring that up to you, yes.

Because you deal with that, right? With the loneliness.

- The character, Phillip- - Yes. - Does deal with that

- Yes. - Does deal with that because he's got such solitude that he doesn't necessarily want in such a busy, populous place.

I mean, you've been to Tokyo, of course. - Yes.

of course. - Yes.

- And you know it's a beehive- - Yes. - Of activity.

- Yes. - Of activity.

But the instances of suicides and people bereft of connection are too high.

And that's why a rental family agency actually exists.

And did since the 19, since the 1980s.

Seriously. - They're in Japan?

- Oh yeah. There's like 300 agencies that's still out there. - Wow.

- You sell people? (laughs)

- No. - No?

- We sell emotion.

- Oh. How?

But people do feel a need for a connection.

- Yes. - In a meaningful way.

Even if it's make believe, even if it's pretend, even if it's only for a little while and you're paying for it. - Yes.

- It's a service.

It serves a purpose that allows for people to have the connection that so often, I think, we've lost from the way we live our modern lives in front of screens doing this.

And to also show that loneliness can be really, it seems a simple enough thing to, to ameliorate, but, until you really feel it, you're not gonna know exactly what it is or what it can do to you.

- You just have to feel it and experience it, right?

There's that loneliness, and then there's solitude that you could seek.

And I loved the movie.

And I told you that. I loved your performance in it.

And there's parts of that movie that really rocked me.

(exhales heavily) (wood thumping) - Phillip? Come on.

- Phillip? Come on.

(door latch clicking) Go. Go.

Go. Go.

- And what I also feel, what Phillip your character, what he was able to do, and what now I realize 'cause now I'm educated on these rental agencies, is it also, and you also provided peace.

And that peace, man, is something that we all look for.

And what one of the moments that rocked me was Kikuo, the character in the film, the older gentleman.

- [Brendan] Akira Emoto-san is his name.

- Ah, okay. - He is by- - He's like a legend?

- Oh, totally. He's a living legend.

- Wow.

- He's like the Japanese Ian McKellen, like.

- How is he to work with?

- Incredible. You know, he has his own theater?

A black box theater.

- Yeah. - In Tokyo.

And he lives on the floor above it.

And every morning 8:00 am, he has a free performance that he gives of anything.

He'll read something from a play.

- Wow. Really? - Or some piece of obscure text.

One morning I went, he was reading like this 15th century shogun's basically shopping list, you know?

- Wow. (laughs) - Certain amount bushels of wheat and the peasants are acting up again.

And like that. - Wow, man.

- He's performing it in- - Yeah. - Like this classical

- Yeah. - Like this classical form of Japanese that even Japanese people are going, "What did he say?" (Dwayne laughs) But it's so- - Was there like a different tone and the intonation of voice? - Oh, it's so heightened.

I don't know enough about the language.

- Yeah. - But it's the difference between and I speaking right now and Henry V, you know? Like- - Wow, man.

Well, you feel his power.

And you guys together on screen, I love the relationship between you two.

I loved it.

And also, you know, I'm dealing with dementia in our family.

- Oh. - So it, this idea that you just wanna create this moment for him, even if he's gonna forget it.

But just give him this piece, take him home.

- Did you think that he was in on the ruse that Phillip wasn't really going to write his book?

'Cause I, when I watched the movie, I think, "Man, the old man was onto him all the time."

- I feel like he was.

- Yeah. - Yeah.

- That's what I wanna believe.

- I feel like he was, man.

And that's a great question. I feel like he was.

And- - He's just too clever.

- He's too clever and he knows.

And I also, and again, you just giving him that peace.

And then, of course, you know, I won't ruin it.

- Look. As it goes, he completes his journey.

- He completes his journey. - He does.

- And then, but what you say to him, again, rocked me because it's what I said to my dad, which was your version of, "I'll see you again, my friend," you know?

It just moved me, man. - Oh.

- Yeah, I watched the movie in the morning too.

I'm like, I was getting emotional. I'm crying.

It was beautiful. - That's okay.

- And I love the movie.

And the relationship you had with the little girl.

Talk about her a little bit.

She was amazing. - Shannon Gorman is her name.

Her mother is Japanese. Her father is Irish.

- Okay. - And that's the dynamic of who that actor is written to be.

- Wow. - Because

she is the daughter of a single mother.

And whoever her father is is just not in the picture.

It's not important.

But he was a white guy. He was Caucasian.

- Yeah. - And so she, thereby is, and I'm talking about Shannon.

She feels trapped between worlds and she showed up- - Cultures?

- Yeah, but she showed up to the rehearsal with this explanation of what it felt like to be made to feel other, and to be, she said she was, she said, "I have been bullied by kids."

- Sure. - And that can be biting because you're not Japanese enough.

- That's right. - Or you're not white enough.

- Yes. - And even adults would speak around her who didn't know her, but assumed that she didn't speak Japanese.

Incorrectly assumed.

And would speak Japanese in front of her about her.

And she had to make a decision about whether or not- - Do I say something? - To answer.

- Yes. - So,

and sometimes she did, maybe she didn't.

But she was still really, really conflicted.

So, to talk about this kid.

She showed up at this movie with so much- - With all of this. - Yeah.

This emotional bandwidth.

- Wow. - It was so available that we had to, in fact, we had to stop rehearsing 'cause we didn't wanna play our game in the locker room.

- Yes. - You know?

- Yes, yeah. Go out on the field.

- Just point the camera at the kid and we're good. - Yes.

- Somebody give Brendan a Red Bull.

- (laughs) That's a beautiful relationship that you guys had.

- Oh my god. - It's,

she's got great parents.

- Yeah. - She's got great parents.

- Yeah. She did amazing.

Both you guys together. Again, that dynamic.

And also the, just the concede I was telling everybody when they were like, "Hey, how's the movie?"

I said, "The movie's amazing. 'Rental Family.'"

I said, but also the concede of it is just so unique and different.

When you, how did the script come to you?

How did that happen?

- I was looking for a job, man.

I was like- - Yeah.

- It could have been one of those ones on the blacklist.

- Yes. - And you know, just been never known.

And it wasn't on that list. - Sure.

- But you know, it was in sort of territory and it's all in the title, "Rental Family"?

- Yeah. (chuckles)

- Because, you know, in certain pejorative cheeky joke here or whatever, you know, and then- - [Dwayne] Yeah.

- But then again, it piques your interest.

And that's what this director Hikari embraces.

She goes towards the prickly side of what that could mean with the softer side.

- The tenderness of it.

- And the movie lives in between.

- Yeah. - With sentimentality or- - That's right. - You know, being- - It's just enough. - It's not cynical.

Why do you do this?

- What? - This job.

You're so passionate about it. Why?

And can I just ask you?

Do you think there was a villain in "Rental Family"?

You had to think about it.

- You gotta think about it. Yeah.

- I don't think there is, apart from apathy.

- Apathy, and I was gonna say, just, you hold up the mirror.

- Yes. - You know?

You hold up the mirror.

- Look within. - Look within.

- Go on that journey and you'll complete it.

- Yes. - If you stop seeking it out from other people, ways of behaving, just take stock of yourself.

- That's right.

- And I needed to find something like that at that time to answer that really showed that this is a guy who- - Why did you need something like that? I'm curious.

- It was before all the Oscars.

It was before and there was- - Oh, this was before?

- Yeah. I found it. - Oh.

- I saw the script first before the Oscars. - Okay.

- And I mean, not that that changed, believe me, it doesn't change much of anything.

- You still would've done it, right?

- I was absolutely. - Of course.

- But it doesn't really...

I'm still the same guy.

You know, I don't- - Yes.

- I was looking, basically, I was still looking for a job.

- Yeah. - And I wanted something that was out of the ordinary.

I wanted to not ascribe to the trope of jumping into something splashy and huge.

And I felt like I wanted to be challenged by- - Challenged. Yeah.

- Challenged. Yeah.

- You know, working with what I've got.

- Yes. - And-

- Challenge yourself?

- Exactly. - Yeah. Yes.

Can I ask you something about after your Oscar win, did you feel anything shift?

Winning the Oscars allow me now to look at things maybe like this, maybe a little wider, maybe a little deeper, or look at material differently?

Did it give you any, a different kind of desire to challenge yourself in a different way?

Or was it, we work to put the best work out there.

- Right.

- We leave it there and then we move on.

- I think of it two ways.

On the one hand, I feel like you better earn this.

I mean, you did 'cause you got the brass ring, but be worthy of it going forward.

Uphold the standard, you know? If you can.

And like you said, nobody sets out to lose, you know?

To make a turkey or whatever.

I mean- - Yeah.

- We're always putting our best effort into it.

But also I felt like...

(sighs deeply) I felt like I don't have anything to prove.

- Wow. Yeah. - In a way now.

- Yes. - But that doesn't mean I'm gonna just coast.

- Not like, you're not hungry anymore.

- No. Yeah, no.

If anything, I feel like I have to work.

- Hungrier. - Yeah.

That's how I feel. - That's the- - That's how I feel. - That's the thing.

I wonder if that's the thing that maybe people forget or it's easy to look past because I felt, when I saw you win, and I've known you for a long time, I went in my head, "Oh, if you think he's not gonna be hungry anymore."

(laughs) "It's not him."

So, you made you hungrier.

And then also this idea of, hey, you gotta be worthy of this.

- Like you, I'm in it for the long haul.

- Yeah. Long game.

- Like most actors, many of them, the secret is we would be doing this whether they paid us or not.

- Yeah. You love it.

- That sort of stands to reason.

You have to take ownership of who you are, what you're capable of, and have the courage to continue. - Yeah.

to continue. - Yeah.

And let me ask you this 'cause you brought this up and you said it, is this idea of, I felt like I didn't need to prove anything anymore.

Had you felt for some time? - I had everything to prove.

- Yeah. - I did.

- Yeah. - I had everything to prove.

I mean, like, I knew I was a capable actor.

- Right. - And I had plenty of bumps in the road along the way, but that's just the way it goes.

Maybe it was a perfect storm of when "The Whale" was shot, it was during COVID.

It was one room.

It was a man encumbered by a health condition that caused his body to be so overweight that he was confined to a single place.

And you know, that's the world of that story that Samuel D. Hunter wrote.

It was a stage play before.

But what Darren Aronofsky directed was a movie that made us all feel, not only at that time, because it was when we were all, you know, locked down in COVID.

You know, we were all under existential threat.

This might be the last time we ever get to do this anyway.

Like, you know? - Yeah. Yeah.

- In a way. - So it had that energy when you- - Yeah.

Like, you know, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna go down swinging or I'm gonna give it everything I've got.

And when I finished, I felt like, well, I am all outta moves, yeah.

- Just said yes. - If it doesn't land, then, I don't know, I guess I'll crack open the yellow pages and go look for a marketing job or something 'cause I- - Yes. - Then I really don't know

- Yes. - Then I really don't know what the hell I'm doing.

- Wow. Yeah.

- And that was the first time in my life that, or my career rather, that I felt like...

I left it all out there.

- Right on the field.

- Yeah. - Yes.

- I also owe you a debt of gratitude because when I took "The Whale" with Darren and the crew to Venice, and they applauded for a very long time and stayed on their feet, and I'd never been there before.

- Yeah. - I didn't know the whole, you know, ritual of it.

- [Dwayne] The ceremony of it.

- Ceremony, yes. - Yes.

And uh- - I was in tears when I watched you.

(chuckles) - I know.

(attendees cheering and applauding) You put your shoulder into that by showing your support through Twitter.

And Dwayne, you are a godfather of sorts of the success of that project.

I hope you know that you are.

And thank you for that, for doing that for me.

- Of course. - But for everyone else too.

- I was so, look, I'm happy to do it and support you, but also that moment rocked me and it moved me.

I had not experienced Venice until "Smashing Machine", which you and I have talked about.

And I have watched it from afar.

I had not had the honor of having a film- - Right. - Go there.

- Right. - Go there.

And then you, my friend, I see this long applause for you.

You're emotional. I'm emotional watching you get emotional.

But also just in that moment, man, like, I felt such joy for you because I felt even though you and I hadn't talked about it, like, there it is, after all these years.

That's what you worked for.

(crowd cheering and applauding) The other stuff that comes our way that we're so lucky and blessed.

If it's box office, it's great.

It does well, great.

If it flops, okay, we move on.

But that moment, that ceremonial longstanding applause for something that you ripped yourself open and you went elsewhere.

And at that time when that happened for you, I was in that place of, "I'm so happy for my friend.

And I'm even more inspired because I wanna do that."

I wanna go elsewhere.

- You felt that way? - I wanna find that- - Wow. - Yes.

- Wow. - Yes.

I wanna find that role.

What's my, it's not apples here, but like your Whale, like what's my?

- Right. - What's my thing?

And so- - Your "Moby Dick."

- Yes. Yes.

What is that? What's my "Moby Dick"?

What's my, what is it?

And I was so happy and I was so full of joy for you.

- Thank you. - In that moment.

(crowd cheering and applauding) - [Attendee] Bravo!

(crowd cheering and applauding) That might not be what we do it for 'cause you do it for the work of it.

But to get that kind of acknowledgement, I just felt it.

Man, so I was just so- - What happened when- - Happy.

- When the shoe was on the other foot?

- Oh. - And your reception for "Smashing Machine" did, I felt like I was in, you know what they say, out of body experience.

- Yes. - But I also felt like this is not for me.

This is, I felt, and that's not just my, you know, insecurity and confidence issues talking.

But it was like, I thought, "This is all a facade. This is pretend."

Like this, I really couldn't.

I was having a hard time processing it.

- Yeah. - At the same time I was so intensely moved.

It felt like it was a completion of a journey.

The fulfillment of a dream.

And maybe would never have uttered to admit to having all of that.

Where did it take you?

(crowd cheering and applauding) - Surreal. Out of body.

- Surreal. Out of body.

A complete out of body experience for me.

And you mentioned the word dream.

Lemme say it now and then I'll go back to the experiences.

I felt like what "Smashing Machine" represented for me was- - Yeah.

- I'm living my dream.

This is my dream. - Yeah.

- And not others' dreams. You know, to take these other projects, which I love doing, but there's a lot of other entities and things connected to them.

But "Smashing Machine", it was just me, mine and Benny Safdie and Emily Blunt.

And so, I felt the ovation, you wanna give it up?

This is here, this is the director.

And it's them. It's theirs.

- Deflect it. - You're just trying to deflect it. - It takes a village.

You know, like?

But that house won't let you.

- That's right. - They won't let you.

- And I was gonna ask you. - And they won't let you be humble.

They won't. No. - That's right.

- [Brendan] They put you on the spot.

- They put you on the spot and I didn't know.

I went, "Holy shit. This ceremony is real."

And it means something and they won't let you.

- No. - No.

Just be humble about it.

And not in a life changing way, and it was, and I know you experienced this.

It's so important as everyone is looking up to get eye contact with you just for a moment so they can look at you and say- - Yeah. - Here this is.

- Yeah. - Here this is.

- Yeah. - And for me, just like you, that was my exhale.

I felt like I never exhaled like that in my career, like.

- Wow.

- (exhales) Okay. We did it.

(crowd cheering and applauding) - Did you compare all of that to everything you've done prior up to that part?

I found myself thinking, all right for, you know, all these movies I made that might've been crap.

Some of them were good, some of them, all that brought you to this point.

- That's right. - Yeah.

- That's right.

I felt every single thing I had done led to this moment.

- Yeah. - Whether twists and turns in the road, fails, you know, wins, whatever, led to this moment.

And so, by the way, the makeup, how long were you in the chair?

- We started off the first test that Adrien Morot did.

- Uh-huh. - It took 10 hours.

But that was the first test.

- Wow. - So then, you know, they had to change.

You- - Yes.

- What works what doesn't. - That's right.

- There was costuming, elaborate costuming, and there was a harness that I wore underneath it that wasn't built yet.

So in the end, yeah.

So, your time in the chair, we got done in like 2 1/2 hours, which meant, you know, you get there at four in the morning and- - Yeah. Sure.

- Yeah. Sure.

- Fall asleep at the chair a little bit and let them do their thing.

But I'll never cry tears over, you know, who's self-sacrificing the most.

I give it up to the makeup artists. - Yeah. Yes.

- They're the first boots on the ground and the last to leave.

- That's right.

- And then they gotta go and prep and get ready for the next day. - That's right.

Have it all laid out. - Oh, like, if the appliances, maybe one of them came off the mold a little wrong.

If it goes on wrong in the morning, that's a big deal.

'Cause then it's another half an hour in the chair to fix it or tweak it.

And that means another hour you're not getting the first shot of the day on set.

Does this sound familiar to you?

(laughs) - Of course. Yeah.

I mean, we were lucky we had, I had Kazu Hiro who's, of course, is one of the best to, as well. - Yeah.

as well. - Yeah.

- I was, we were in the chair for 3 1/2 hours every day.

And it was 23 prosthetics.

Eyes, eyes, nose, cauliflower ears, scars everywhere.

And you know what that's like.

You- - The difference though.

I mean, I hope you weren't taking too many hard knocks or blows to the makeup, but were there constant repairs and sweat?

- Well, think about it, right?

So that's, it's something that you have to go through.

And this is why we give it up for our makeup artists, is that we were constantly, he had constantly had to keep the appliances on.

I mean, I'm getting whacked around and sweating.

And so, I didn't know this- - It's gonna fall off.

- You know, it's like, you, with what comes out of our pores sometimes, you know, depending on what the appliance is made out of.

Sometimes it sticks, sometimes it just falls off.

- Right. - It was unbelievable.

But he did an, Kazu did an unbelievable job 'cause he created these prosthetics that had not been created before, but specifically for "Smashing Machine."

So, they stayed on.

- Did he do hand moulding or was it a 3D process?

- He did. - You know?

- He did both. Both? Yeah.

- Combination of both. - Adrian did both too.

He did a lot of like a scan of the body and then he created Charlie virtually.

- Yes. - And then some 3D printing.

Like, he was really at the tip of the spear of using that technology at that time.

- Yeah sure. - Now, it's kinda getting standardized, which is interesting, but...

- When you first read that script, how did that come to you?

- He said he wanted to meet me.

I thought, Darren Aronofsky?

- Yeah - Like, "Pi" Darren Aronofsky wants to meet me?

Yes, he does.

He's got a project about a man who has an eating disorder and he can't leave his apartment, and he's bereft because he's gonna die in a week foregone.

And he wants to reconnect with his daughter in a meaningful way before it gets worse.

And that's all I knew.

So, I met Darren, who was a gentleman.

And you know, he's got like a Peregrine falcon's gaze behind very kind glasses.

- (laughs) Yeah.

- And he told me, later told me that he would've been a baseball umpire if he wasn't a director 'cause you know, and that's true 'cause he sees everything.

- Wow. Yeah. - He knows that I call balls and strikes.

He does get the last work.

But the thing about Darren is he's a real true collaborator in the sense that he gives credit to everybody automatically wherever the idea comes from.

- Mm. - And I think that's the mark of good leadership on a set.

I learned that. - Wow!

You know, I've been meaning to, and you and I can connect about, I'm gonna work with Darren.

- When? - Probably next year.

Yeah. We got a great project, man. (laughs)

I'm super, yeah. - Okay.

We'll talk about it later. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm super excited about it.

But and also about a man who is broken.

- Yeah. - And sees the world in a different way and has a, I can't wait to tell you about it.

But Darren's, he's been just awesome to work with and get to know and become close with.

And it seems amazing.

I do wanna know with you guys, you and Darren.

You know, I feel like sometimes people are, and I've known him for some time.

As a matter of fact, here's a crazy little wild fact is on the wrestler, my uncle was a pro wrestler.

He passed away. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course.

- Helped train Mickey Rourke.

- Okay. - For that.

So, that's kind of how I got to know Darren.

- I get it. - Just as buddies.

- I get it.

- But since then, and since this project, we started working on this project together called "Breakthrough" with A24.

There's all these kismety things that are happening with me and Darren and I say, "Hey, I'll send him- - It's time then.

- I'll send him like a song and he'll go, "Yeah, well, you know, I saw Reverend Al Green down in Memphis when I lived down there."

I said, "You lived in, I lived in Memphis."

- I'm really excited for you, Dwayne. That's great news.

- Yeah. I can't wait.

- The funny thing when people say, "You worked with Dwayne Johnson? You worked Dwayne Johnson?"

And I went, "Well."

(Dwayne laughs) "On paper." - Yeah. On paper.

"On paper." - Yeah. On paper.

- Yes. - On the poster.

- Exactly.

It was the first time that we met was on the Red Carpet at the premier, I think.

- Crazy as that. - Yes, it was.

It's because you were a piece of tape on a stick for the big boss battle at the end.

- That's right.

- Yes. - And so we're always, you know, "Where's Dwayne? Where's Dwayne?"

(Dwayne laughs) And, you know, reacting, "Ah! The Scorpion King's very angry with this."

"Ah! The Scorpion King's very angry with this."

So, we didn't.

Our timelines in the world of the movie didn't really coincide.

No, they didn't.

And then you came back as this supernatural effect.

- That's right. - CGI effect, which in hindsight.

(Dwayne laughs) It's charming in its own way now 'cause doesn't it remind you of early video games, like?

- Dude, were you like, "That?"

- No, when I was at the premier, I met the guys that were doing the CGI after they were like, "Hey, congratulations. Great movie."

"Hey, congratulations. Great movie."

And they were like, "We needed more time."

- Yes. They knew that by the way.

- They tell you. - They needed more time.

But what an experience that was.

At least, you know, for I think what it, the franchise, just beloved.

People love that movie.

And also you were just phenomenal in it, and Rachel and everyone.

And of course, you allowed me to be in it.

I'll tell you this quick story is that- - I'm not gonna hear it, man.

It was all you. - Dude, I'm telling you.

No. You did. - Okay.

- That was your franchise. You could have said no.

- I wouldn't have had a second best option.

I wouldn't have known who to ask for.

When your name came across the radar.

And I who, and I was shown.

- Exactly. - I know.

But I was like, "But he's perfect for it. Look at that guy.

He commands the attention of stadiums full of people."

- Oh man. - You have eaten outta that with your eyebrow.

(Dwayne laughs) I know the whole thing.

You had that. That magnetic telegenic energy.

And you also, I could see, I could see in your performance that you also had the desire to act.

- Yeah. - You weren't just there to be a monster creature or whichever effect.

- That's right. - And you did carry on in a series of those movies.

But after that, everything was a succession that brought you up to "Smashing Machine", which is a crowning achievement for you.

- Thank you very much, brother.

- I'm so proud of that.

- Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you.

And I'm so proud of you too, man.

And "Rental Family." I loved it.

Congratulations on that. - Thank you.

- And there's just so many moments in that, man, that are just beautiful.

And the relationship that you had.

And I loved it.

I will always support you.

I got your back. - Same.

Same, man. - I love you, man.

- If Darren's giving you a hard time, don't call me.

- Don't call you?

(both laughing) I gotta call somebody. He's the umpire.

- He's the umpire.

I'll be your bad boy.

(both laughing) (bright upbeat music)