Full Tutorial: Build with Multiple AI Agents using Claude Code in 40 Minutes | Kieran Klaassen

While we've all been doing Vibe coding,

Kieran has gone to the next level to

manage multiple AI agents to code for

him at the same time. It's like I'm a

manager and I have like a team of people

that are very capable. The work when

doing software or building stuff is not

code. It's way more. It's research. It's

product marketing. It's even

understanding what you should build.

Coding with agents is super helpful for

people that actually build software.

If your directions are good, if you're

clear in your communication about what

problem needs to be solved and how to go

about it, they can deliver results to

you. Running parallel is a good trick

where you can run three things at the

same time. Let's get right into then.

Let's go.

Okay, welcome everyone. My guest today

is Kieran, the lead engineer and general

manager of Kora, a beautiful AI email

assistant. And uh you know, while we've

all been doing Vibe coding, Kieran has

gone to the next level to manage

multiple AI agents to code for him at

the same time. So I'm really excited to

get him to show us exactly how this

works uh by using cloud code and AI

agents. So welcome, Karen.

Thank you. Yeah, I'm really excited. I

love everything related to agents. I

love everything related to AI and I love

building things and I've been building

this product Kora for almost a year now.

We just launched two weeks ago uh to

general public which is really cool and

we have had many people say I love this

product and a few that say I hate this

which I think is the best product.

Yeah, you want to have an opinion. And

what I've learned is like I I really

pushed myself to build alone. Like I've

done VC backed uh like VP of engineering

companies before where I was the VP of

engineering just did the team and all

the things. And there's a time now where

you can build stuff in a smaller team

and that's really cool and I'm very

excited about what you can do and like

I've been pushing myself how far can you

go like when does it break? Where does

it work? And especially in the last

weeks, it's really special. There's

another step up again, which is like

working in parallel and using agents to

do long running tasks. And yeah, like

let's talk about it. Let's see what that

means. And uh yeah, hopefully we can

show some code as well uh like how to do

that and share some workflows. So, you

know, I've been doing a lot of

quoteunquote vibe coding of cursor and

just like watching it generate code and

you know, debugging stuff, but I think I

I think what you're doing is a little

bit different, right? So, maybe you can

just talk a little about that at a high

level first.

Yeah. So,

yeah,

like vibe coding, this is something that

started maybe a year ago like or like I

was vibe coding a year ago and then it

got maybe the name vibe coding started

this year. But it's like you you have an

idea and you say, "Oh, I have this idea

like can you start it?" And you see

something and you get feedback and

there's this feedback loop where you

kind of collaborate with the AI in like

a tight feedback loop and create stuff

that you you would take like that would

take weeks or months before you would

not even be able to do because you don't

have the coding skills. So that was like

the first step where and and that's yeah

that's the vibe coding. what agentic

coding is like it's kind of more like

having a colleague like it's like I I'm

a manager and I have like a team of

people that are very capable and like I

give a spec or I give a like a larger

piece that needs to be completed and

hand it off to an agent and the agent

will actually complete that. So the

feedback loop is less tight but if you

do it well it can be very very powerful

because imagine there are like five

agents or people every two seconds say

hey I did something what do you think

like that doesn't work in parallel and

the mind sh like the the the change with

the new models with like clot 4 and opus

is they're good at following directions

so if your directions are good if you're

clear in your communication about what

problem needs to be solved and how to go

about it. They can deliver results to

you. You're still giving feedback, but

you're giving feedback on a pull request

or on like a larger change. And you can

also give feedback on the research. So

like there's like these steps you need

to go through. It's not like let's just

go. It's like you you actually need to

think about what you want to build and

that that is just like traditional

software engineering like what problem

are you solving and like if you don't

know what you're solving like the AI

doesn't know what to build. So it's like

that's that's kind of the change. So

uh coding with agents is super helpful

for people that actually build software

that want to get work done. And I would

say this applies for everyone even like

non-engineers. I have a friend and he's

not a techie at all and not really an

engineer but he's he's very interested

in learning new things and I said just

try cloth code. He was like terminal

what is that like

like very scared. And I said no it's not

too bad. It's just text and you speak to

it or you type and it does stuff and

like just see what you think what it

does like do you like it or you don't

and he was like holy this is like

this is really cool like it does what I

want it to do and that magic that's what

agentic coding is it's like before you

had to give feedback like oh no don't do

that or like don't write like that

agentic coding is more of like yeah it

does what I want and yeah these magic

moments.

Yeah. It's kind of like a natural

evolution if you think about it cuz like

you know if if you're like a engineering

manager, you're not going to look at

your uh engineers computer the whole

time right?

Some do. Yeah. Terrible manager. Yeah.

Yeah. It's it's really like if you are a

tech lead or an engineering manager,

this is for you. Like this is your jam.

This is exactly it. And the fun part is

like if you are a very micromanager,

nitpicky tech lead, it's also great

because the AI doesn't care.

They will happily do whatever you want.

Uh so yeah, like for sure. And uh let's

talk a little about cuz uh you know,

cursor has been growing like crazy

crazy, but it seems like the people like

like yourself who are like the most

savvy of this stuff are moving to cloud

code, right? So maybe talk about

so like the thing is there's no right

tool. Uh currently there are lots of

teams uh like AMP or Klein or like even

co-pilot

like there they're all interesting teams

doing interesting things and they all

have their own take and you as a builder

or you as someone that are experimenting

with these things. You should try them

out because one works great for someone

and the other doesn't work great for

someone and you should experiment and

push yourself and in two weeks it might

be different. So like we're going show

to show cl code now but it's not about

the tool cl. It's about like how do you

reset and rethink how you work with

these tools?

Makes sense. So so let's get right into

that. Can you give us a tour of cloud

code first?

Let's go.

Yeah.

Okay. What you see is warp which is my

terminal but it could be any terminal.

Uh you can get the terminal by just

typing this and say terminal if

if you're not used to this. Um and you

install cloth code go to their website.

You just paste one thing and and it's

there. And you started by just running

cloth and this is it. Like it it kind of

looks weird. The first time I started

this, I was like, well, is this really

going to like change my IDE? I'm a very

visual thinker, so I love to see visual

things.

But I I like it now because this gives

me peace because there's just one thing

I can do here really, which is type what

I want it to do. And if you compare that

with cursor for example like uh yeah

which do you select like auto mode uh

many buttons many things there there is

a way to also still have it in uh in c

uh cursor or other places but like it's

it invites you to do something and like

the blank slate is nice but basically

what you can do you can just say type in

something and it will start doing stuff

for use. So um for example so so what I

use I use uh monologue which is a text

to uh or a speech to text app we built

internally as well.

Uh I can share the the link if anyone

wants to try it out. It's very early on

but it's it's really good for for using

cloth code. I don't like to type. I

stopped typing like more than a year or

maybe two years ago whenever whisper

launched. Uh I stopped typing. So,

okay,

can you show me what the app we're in

does? Like very high level.

This is a great use case you can use

close code for, which is just teach me

stuff. So, that's really helpful if

you're like in a new code base or if

you're uh yeah, not very familiar with

it. It will like ask you uh

uh yeah, it will ask ask some things.

Okay, it's going to

Okay, it's going to do a cloth code. So,

it's going to say uh what cloth code

does. So, um actually can you look at

the code and say what this project does

like what language what what what's up

here?

So, my speech tool it reads also

context. So, it sees cloth code and uh

and like rewrites part of it. So, it's

now doing stuff and you can see it keeps

to-dos and to-dos are kind of a way to

keep the keep it on the leash. So, it

will not do random stuff and you can

tell it like hey I want to do five

things create todos out of that which is

a very helpful thing and it will just go

one by one h until it uh did everything

and it's very good at finding files and

gathering information. So this is like

number one that I always do is research.

It's really good at research. It can

search the web. It can you can connect

MCPS like context 7 which I like. It's

it's very good for putting in

information.

Uh it can look on your file system. It

can do anything in your in your CLI

which is basically everything.

So okay now so this is this is like a

demo app. It's a Ruby rules 8. Uh, this

is the text tag. There's this already

set up and I already added some Gmail

fake Gmail clients that we might use and

already an LM library. Uh, like it's

very good at already existing code

bases. It's it's also good for creating

new ones, but like that's how it's

different than VIP coding. I think most

people use this stuff at work or for

actual products to ship actual code more

than like vibe coding. It breaks down at

some point and you're like this doesn't

work. You delete everything and start

over. Like this is like for sustainable

uh apps and things like that.

Got it. Okay.

It is pretty bare bones in that you see

text but the fun part is you can also

work with GitHub. So like you can uh do

research and then say create GitHub

issues. So let me show you like um for

example

you want to like do some research and

like see if we can create some issues

here and uh start building some or do

you do you want to do something else?

Yeah, let let's build something like a

demo or something.

Yeah. So, I thought it was fun to like

kind of show like a very stripped down

version of Kora uh which which looks at

your email and then like kind of

summarizes it and makes like the most

important things uh uh like prioritizes

those. And so, I have a fake Gmail

client that kind of fetches uh fake

information. So, uh we're going into the

mode, the plan mode. You can shift tab

into that and what that's enabled is

like it will start getting information

and thinking without coding and this is

something like cursor loves to like

start coding

and uh and and this is a best practice

like it's better to have very good

research up front because it is like

easier down the line and I'll I'll show

you a few things. Okay, so I'll also

just start talking. I want to research a

feature um and use the Gmail client and

RubyM gem. I want to add models um

database models for emails that will

store the emails from the Gmail client.

Then I want a service that will take an

email and summarize the email for me.

Yeah, you can use the Ruby LM gem. And

then third, I want a UI that I can read

through these emails. Um,

can you do research on what you would

recommend and maybe you can make these

three separate issues and you can do

them in parallel using sub agents so I

don't have to wait too long. So let's

see. So what I what I'm doing here is

like um

I already have in my head kind of what I

want. I I want to give direction but I

don't want to be too specific because I

still want it to be creative at this

stage because if you say all the details

like it should have all these things in

the data maybe I miss something like LM

are really good at like filling in

things I missed. So you want at this

stage to be not too precise like we're

exploring and you can see here I set in

parallel uh because sometimes these

things go on for like 25 minutes. My

record is I think 25 minutes. We have

like a competition internally with

people like how long can you have cloth

run and I I might I win at 25 minutes

still. Um but it's like still like we're

on a podcast and we're like actually

doing stuff here. So running parallel is

a good trick where you can run three

things at the same time in a sub agent

and the the added benefit is like it

won't cost you tokens in the context

window of the main conversation.

Basically it means at some point it did

too much and it gets worse and doing it

like this it like does a task summarizes

or takes something and then only has a

summary in there. So you can like reduce

tokens on the main context window.

So it's basically like three separate

cloud chats with like some

yeah this this is basically like I'm

opening three separate chats here and

then copy paste this instruction and

then say for this one do that for that

one and this automatically does that

like it orchestrates the sub agents and

like brings it back and synthesizes it.

So it's a good tool to know. Just note

that sometimes uh so sometimes you have

to say yes, which is good otherwise uh

yeah it's not as safe. So yes.

Yeah. Um yeah. So so that's that's

basically what it is. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I think there's also a way

to just get it to yolo like instead of

you have to say yes all the time.

Yes. Yeah. That's how I actually use it.

like uh like like I would start using it

like this but at some point you trust it

and you can like it will save all these

yes in in a config file as well but I

just run it yolo which is like

dangerously skip everything which is a

mode that just like it just goes I I

wouldn't run that without being here

like that is a little bit dangerous

because you need some containers but if

you have containers set up and stuff

like that just think about it.

Okay.

Uh yeah, but but yeah, like experiment

like if it's if it's a project and you

feel safe, do that. Like there's the

magic for sure because saying yes yes

yes if you do sub agents like this we'll

show the the just running without saying

yes yes yes with these three tasks. So

it has a plan um

let's see so it has a plan the core

models uh

the structure where it's a service and

this is going to do that um and there

will be some components uh which is like

an emails controller

so yeah like I I I I think let's go um

yeah let's do it yeah

I say okay can you create three

different markdown files uh for issues

and yeah for all these three issues with

uh with the plan so I want to store this

plan somewhere and normally I do it on

GitHub and the GitHub CLI is also there

but like for now let's make it simple

you can say create three different

issues on GitHub for this what I like

about that is that other engineers can

pick it up even or an agent can pick it

up or like there there is some

visibility in why it went that way

because sometimes with vibe coding it's

like yeah there is like some command

that you say yes sounds good or

something and that is like the only

place and you have to go back to through

history and this way you can also say

hey let me try codeex let me try amp let

me try client let me like and like just

see which one is the best and go with

the best which is also very Uh,

interesting. So, I would always like

document things like this and use them

then to kick off another agent. So, here

it made the first one.

Let's pick this one. So, what I'm going

to do now is I want to like implement

these three features at the same time

because why would we do one at a time if

you can do all three? So

um there's this feature in git called

work trees which is uh so git is a way

to check in your code and there's

version control for the for the

nontechnical people is basically if you

make a change you say this is a change

where I do this and this and this and

your name is connected to it and you can

reference like the versions you can see

what happened use

if you don't like and if you don't know

what git is or how it works, just tell

cloud code to commit it or use git for

uh for everything. Um or teach teach me

git like it it will teach you. But git

has work trees which are basically you

create a new branch but it's in a

different folder. Uh so that means you

can have different

um agents or different cloth codes

running at the same time because the

issue is if there's one changing a file

and the other one is changing the same

file they that will be messy. It will

mess up. It's basically having three

developers using the same system or

something at the same time. And this is

like separating that out even though it

is on one system which is a very cool

feature. So I have this uh command here

uh WT which is just make your own but

basically what it does it just creates a

work tree for me uh based off main here

you can look what I what I have but like

make it however you want it uh you can

do that in cloth as well so work three

um and we'll do we'll just call this

because it's feature one

Okay. And and then I do CC and then you

can see now s c s c s c s c s c s c s c

s c s c s c suddenly it says bypassing

permissions

and cc is the one I use and it just runs

cloth and says dangerously skip

permissions.

Okay. So CC is just your own function to

it's my own function that I use and uh I

I don't like typing a lot so I I just

use aliases and functions uh

to just make it go faster. Um, okay. So,

we have this one. So, you can reference

files with a add sign. So, it knows it's

a file. Like, it doesn't really need to,

but um,

okay. Can you start implementing this

feature? And before you do that, think

ultra hard about all the to-dos you need

to take to get this done. So, I use some

trigger words. So, one is to-dos. create

to-dos, which is like that list that um

we talked about.

Yeah.

And the other one is think ultra hard.

Um

Oh, yeah. So, okay. So, this file

doesn't exist um because we didn't check

it in. So, let's let's do that.

Okay. You got to commit. Yeah.

Can you commit these files?

And you can see already like if you have

this on GitHub, like that's not an

issue. Uh but yeah, like so you can see

it's committing now. It's uh adding

these markdown files and it's pushing

them. So we'll do the same here.

I like how you've uh optimize your

workflow to be maximally lazy, you know,

like with the shortcuts and the voice.

Yeah, you should because it's all about

friction. Like the less friction you

have, the easier it is to do. So uh yeah

if you can lower friction

uh yeah do it uh but but you start yeah

you you don't start here obviously you

like you create your own way of working

like start using cloth start then

changing one thing and then like where

where's the friction how can I automate

that so now it goes here um I'm going to

do the same with the others so let's see

this on.

Uh you can do cool stuff in in here as

well where you like split screen in warp

and you can use t-mucks and whatever you

want. But I'm uh I'm a classically

trained composer. That's my background.

Okay. So I I'll just I'll just make this

work for however I do. And you can see

here the to-dos are already generating

which is cool. Okay. So we'll do this

one here.

Uh yeah, there there are systems for

doing this really smoothly, but for some

reason I just like the simplicity of

just like me doing it because I'm closer

to what's happening instead of like

using a framework and like doing all

kinds of hard stuff. Yeah. So you can

see two features running at the same

time and they are on different branches

here and also in different work trees.

Um

and we can do the third one as well like

we'll Yeah.

So but the two features are not like

they don't they don't need code from the

other feature right like like

so

yeah like yeah like dependencies

obviously you need to think about uh yes

they need code like this one needs code

from the other feature but the beauty is

we had research done as a holistic

thing. So you can say, "Hey, like assume

this exists." Um,

got it.

So yeah, like yeah, it's it's

like like this is a pretty big feature

to build in like 20 minutes, but like

it's showing how it how it works and

what it does. And normally what I do uh

going through this is uh so so these two

will will work uh without each other.

The third actually needs the the models

being done. But you can see it's going

step by step and it's uh thinking

ultra hard which means it will take some

more tokens and more time. But when you

do that it gets better output. And just

think about like when would you think

hard about something?

Will you think hard about something if

if you say oh yeah can you change this

line to that line? No, you don't need to

think ultra hard. That's easy. But I if

it's about uh what can go wrong

deploying this to production uh if I

have 20 million rows here like might

maybe like I I will need to think

harder. So then you can trigger you say

think hard think ultra hard or think

deeply like those words will increase

the the thinking levels in in cold as

well.

Yeah. And you're not you're not paying

by the token, right? You have the $100

plan or something.

Yeah, I got the $200 plan. Okay.

But you can get the $20 plan, which this

includes also the $100 plan. I barely

hit any limits, but like I did hit

limits once in a while. And I'm just

like this is so much value that it

doesn't make. Like I like I think I'm

now at like I checked yesterday $1,800

in token usage in the last month. So

like that's $200. So, it's worth it for

sure. And and there I know there are

people that have like way more uh like

thousands like four, five, $6,000. So,

yeah, like but but subscribe and since

yesterday the this plan is also included

in the CI version. So, you can actually

run these not on your own computer, but

you can run them on GitHub and you can

do atclient

running on GitHub. So,

Oh, wow. you don't need to use work

trees which is really cool. Yeah,

that's awesome.

Yeah. So, uh it's doing things here. The

nice part is like it's not just code

like it's going to do migrations. It's

going to um add tests. It's going to run

the tests

and it it's pretty good in like not

going crazy. Like it's good at course

correcting when it does something wrong

which is really nice.

And do you usually like uh watch this

happen or do you like go get a coffee or

something or

normally? Normally I go Yeah, I go on X

obviously. No, I get a coffee. Yeah,

like I I normally do something else but

a lot of the time the time when this is

running I'm already starting to think

what is next like if these things are

done what is the next step I should be

working on and that could be already

researching the next step or uh so so

let's let's do that let's say uh we have

this clothes code here

um or we can do one more here let's do

that as we can see everything.

So let's do the UI and we can say

actually the the models are not there

yet but like we can see uh something

because it would be nice to have

something

um okay so we'll have this one.

Okay, I want you to implement the UI. Um

currently the models are being worked on

by a different developer. So just uh

mock something up real quick. Uh, but I

want to see the UI already.

There we go. Oh, and and sorry, what

what is in those MD files? It's like the

previous research that you did, right?

Yeah. So, let's open these. Um,

yeah.

Yeah. Normally, I I review these, but

it's um

Okay. It's like a spec basically.

Yeah. It's like a PRD. It's like what

what what is the problem you're solving

and uh and you can use uh yeah you so

like it's it's fun because it's pulling

in what kind of techniques it should use

and like it it looked at the code base

and like how how things work there. So

um yeah it's it like for these we did

some experiments like what is the like

how do you get the best research done

and the best research done is not using

sub agents necessarily because they use

a cheaper model they use sonet use opus

and think ultra hard normally the more

information in a plan the better as long

as like it's correct and opus is really

good in writing correct information and

really grounding it in things and things

you can use is uh like reference blog

posts where you think I really like this

style or this pattern or like what are

best practices and context 7 is a MCP

that has like that all curated for you

which is really helpful but you can just

do a web search and like say these or do

deep research with chat GBT and say like

what are the best practices for this

kind of framework in 2025 and And if you

agree, you you just say, "Yeah, it

sounds good." And you can add that as uh

context as well.

So you were able to trigger Opus like

you didn't actually pick the model,

right? So you just as think extra hard

and then it's using Opus.

Yes. Yeah. Like Yeah, you can actually

pick the model. I never do, but yeah, it

will pick the one like I think you can

just do model.

Uh and then you can select something as

well but

got it.

It's going now. Yeah, you can select a

model as well, but use Opus. Yeah, it's

the best. And if you already have

Unlimited and you're not throttled by

anything, like there's no reason not to

use Opus. It's it's it's for sure the

best. Yeah.

Okay.

Um Okay. So, these are still these are

still going.

Mhm.

What like normally what the next thing

is like you have this code and Okay.

Like I think

I think this one is done because like

it's doing test now and I think that's

fine. So you can hit escape. So and any

time and this one is also done. It's

also doing test like I think for the

purpose now it's fine not to have tests.

Yeah. Yeah.

Um okay create PR. So I always use

GitHub. I love GitHub because that's

just something I'm familiar with and

like like it's something

I'm used to and pull requests are great

to review code. So I like to be old

school and review code before merging.

So I use that. So I just say create a

pull request and look at the code. And I

have other tools as well like automated

testing and things like that. So maybe

we can do that uh with the pull request

here if one is generated to have cloud

code also reviewed. Um

one other thing is like yeah like I'm

talking lots of uh things here like oh

do this and think ultra hard like I

don't say all those things I just have

slash commands uh created but it's good

to understand what I'm saying and what

the elements are but for example this

one is the research example and how that

works is I can just say slash

I can just say slash issues

and it will trigger that command and I

can say issues um and then I can give

information about what I want it to

research. Um

okay

and that that is then passed in here as

an argument. So the elements here in

this command are first researching the

repository. So like what are we in

that's important to have in a context

researching best practices and I liked

web context 7 uh to do that it's like

that grounding part where you wanted to

like gather information ground it and

then I go to present a plan and if I

like the plan I say create a GitHub

issue. So

this is uh your prompt or like class

prompt. Yeah, this is my prompt and it's

just like when when I do these prompts

so like I just think like oh yeah this

is a useful one I will use tomorrow

again. Um

okay

and what I normally do is um I go to the

anthropic console

generate prompt

and just like write stuff down. So, for

example,

I get a lot of podcast um requests in my

email and I want uh like uh a way to

uh look through my emails and see if

there are any very very good proposals

uh in there like top proposals and I

want to use the Gmail MCP for that. Um,

so it could be that basic. So I imagine

you have a Gmail MCP connected to CL

code, which you can, and you have this

business thing of like I I want to like

have cloth code like find precious

podcast things.

Yeah. Yeah.

And

normally I copy this and just go here

and create a new slash command. And and

this is always pretty good. Uh just make

sure that um like emails you instruct um

make sure to fetch the emails with the

Gmail MCP. So if that's clear

um cloth code will know that the MCP is

available and you can use this and you

can add your criteria here obviously

and then you have a command and then it

works a certain way or not and you can

refine it and then sometimes you you

look at another command like mine or

like you're like oh that's an

interesting way to think about it like

let me add that as well and I'm very

yeah I'm very much pushing to use this

for other things than just coding like

featurebased triage. I have one where I

look at all featurebased posts and

triage them and see if it makes sense

and then I can create a GitHub issue or

fix a bug really easily. So there are

like other things that I'm trying to do

now as well. Yeah.

Yeah. That's that's I I I wish they had

this like slash command stuff in the

just the regular chat interface for for

cloud and they don't like

they Yeah, they don't problems here.

Like it's it's funny but now I just use

cloth code for everything that I use

cloth normally for and I use the file

system kind of like projects as well and

like that is fine like it's it is super

flexible uh to do it. Yeah.

Yeah. That's brilliant. Yeah.

Okay. So let's see we have a a pull

request here. Let's um

Okay. GitHub is not linked but there

there is a pull request now and

what you can do is like there's a review

command so you can use cloth to review

itself and that's another thing like

starting new agents to review itself

is great because it will reflect and

think and like have a different mode or

different hat and different context

window. So you can even do that five

times and see if it's like coming up

with new things or two times and you can

even do it in sub agents where you say

review this with three different hats on

like uh like a business person or like a

security researcher and and they will

all bring out different things.

Okay.

Um but in the end it's like where and

how how do you integrate this in your

workflow? And I do that in GitHub uh

where I just say okay add these all to

GitHub. This is currently one of the

biggest bottlenecks uh I have is doing

the research and it's doing the reviews

which and and the coding is actually the

easy part if you do good research

because it's pretty good at writing

code. Uh it's like the sheer amount of

code you need to review. So like how to

do that uh like what we've what we're

trying out is like creating custom

commands as well. So here we have one

that is uh one is proofread. It's like

hey if there's copy in in everywhere

like we like good copy. So there's like

a very extensive list of uh how how we

should write and this is style. So this

this is one. So we run that one.

um like fix critical is like this is a

very important part like if it's like uh

encryption like more security like run

this to think ultra ultra think ultra

hard while executing. So it's like

really leaning into the uh security hat

and like really activating that part.

Okay,

there is the

uh best practices. So if you think like

hey this stinks a little bit like maybe

there are like better ways to do it like

catching issues and this is also good

for people that are new to a framework.

For example, if you come from Python and

suddenly you're working Ruby or if

you're TypeScript and you do Django

things are different and it's good to

ground it in best practices for a

framework like that. So there are

different SL commands that you can run

and uh use then as well. Yeah.

You you run this on the PRs like to

review the

PR. Yeah. Yeah. So it yeah like let me

show you here. So basically this this is

in Kora but basically it has access to

my PR. So um okay load the last uh

newest PR please. So it can look at

GitHub and just

uh pull in the PR and you can say I want

to work on this PR and it will check it

out and pull in the comments. Uh the PR

comments is the slash command to get

comments from the GitHub pull request.

Um this one is built into cloud and yeah

the beauty is it is

like it's all connected with MCPS and

you can add everything you want. So like

if there are to-dos here I can add it to

my to-do list as well. So here here it

pulled it and this is the newest one.

revamped memories index UI to match

something and

you can just hit review

and and and this is a good start like it

will like the the weird things that are

just easy to catch that normally with

linting clearly you have linting and

stuff scan scans set up but like

sometimes there's taste or there's like

like it feels wrong and now the those

things can be reviewed as well which is

really cool and it's about distilling

that style and that uh

got it

into a prompt or a review or a slash

command. And yeah, so

that command is a clock native command.

Yeah, this is a native command. There's

nothing special. There's the the review

and the the the PR comments are built

in. So yeah.

Okay. So it says it looks pretty good.

Yeah. Uh yeah. So it goes here and it

says, "Oh, this is not good. We should

fix these." Uh okay. memory leak things

great and normally I look at it and like

it's not always correct but it's it's

good for me to say oh yeah actually it's

incorrect like I rather say no this is

not correct and I'm fine with these

things than not even knowing about it so

it's like I ship more confidently having

the these reviews also if you have tests

obviously uh but yeah like that that's

that's kind of the workflow

but but but but dude like when when do

actually look at the code in the review

like um

Oh yeah. So that's all after this. Yeah.

So like

like I try to automate as much as

possible. So uh so there

Got it.

Yeah. So yeah. So we're so I I I look at

this. I can say um

you can say add these as comments. Uh

which is kind of fun because then

Oh, it's in the code then. Yeah.

Yeah. And and maybe at this point I'm

like okay let me let me actually

uh like let me look at the code and and

normally I do that in batch and I just

do it old school where I just go here

and like

uh add comments. Um

yeah. So I like like I I would say

uh yeah so let's say like can we move

these in

uh inside the view instead of a helper?

Is there a better way to do it? So I can

say something like that and you see it

rewrites it to like certain thing and I

can even say cla

what do you think?

What do you think?

Sorry. Yeah.

Okay.

You gota type.

Yeah. I got to type bug early version.

So if you do this um and you submit the

review, cloth will actually pick it up

and work in GitHub. So it's like it it's

really cool to have it both like in a

like execution mode locally but also

having it here to finish things up.

Yeah, it it Yeah, that's really cool.

and and if the code looks good and you

can see here also we have Charlie which

is another AI bot like we just add

everything and they have different

opinions and different angles that they

come from like this more of a TypeScript

heavy uh bot which is really cool

because you have like a TypeScript bot

reviewing Ruby code which

there are different like it's nice there

are different perspectives so like

adding different perspectives uh yeah is

is always good and you can

I said like can you add these comments

as well? So it added the comments as

well here from uh cloth and the beauty

is like I could take the reviewer role

using cloth code and someone else could

use cloth code to implement this like in

this case it's nesh and the beauty is

like this is more of a traditional

workflow but it's heavily enhanced and

accelerated because we use AI and if

there are comments it's just easy to

resolve them. Yeah, because you have

like AI reviewing and AI implementing.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah,

that's well, man. That's well done.

Did the UI generate yet or?

H Yeah, let's look look at the UI. Okay,

so uh okay, merge this to main

or let's run it here. Let's let's look

at what the UI was like. Yeah, there's

lots of code here. You can already see

like from doing this like there's too

much stuff to review to even like

there's so much generated in the time we

talked uh that it's hard to even show

everything. So let me just show the UI.

See if we see something nice.

Yeah, man. I'm not I'm not an engineer,

but like I think the classic junior

engineer thing is just like you just

like submit a PR with like a thousand

lines of code, right?

Yeah. Is that why I'm doing this?

See email

like it did so much that I so let's see

account ID emails

see. Okay. So so here we have something.

So normally I kind of know what it's

going to do but uh so let's do account

ID.

Okay. that well like there is always

like so there is always

um a use for

like more old school stuff as well like

AI agents are not perfect

and they make mistakes

and it's perfectly fine to run into

mistakes and just go in and edit things

or copy paste stuff like that is also

something like it's very early we're

still figuring this out Um and also like

there were lots like this is also it

crashes because it doesn't have the like

this is a versioning thing. It was

always part of the library and this is

like an LM is not up to date enough with

this bleeding as version and you'll see

that like if you use like later versions

or like frameworks that change a lot

you'll feel the pain more.

Oh yeah that even by coding that's like

very common pinpoint.

Yeah exactly. Yeah it's like it like

things Yeah. That was like two years

ago. Uh but we use something new and uh

so now it requires it. Let's see what we

see.

Okay. So it assumes here.

Okay. We'll we'll get some nice to see

uh simplify it.

Simplify. And then the classic is

simplify or go to Jill.

Oh yeah, you you say that.

I mean you say or uh something terrible

will happen or like that's like the old

school GPT3 where you like it doesn't

really work. No, it's this is a joke. It

doesn't really work anymore. But in the

in the in the previous past uh it did

work where uh okay accounts emails path.

Uh so yeah like yeah like this this is

just like it's a big feature but let's

let's give it a few more minutes I feel

confident.

Yeah. Yeah. So I guess the vibe coding

best practices still apply like you know

it's part of it like I think vibe coding

is just a piece of a bigger thing and I

think vibe coding is something we used

to understand that it's very powerful

but also it sucks because like sometimes

you have no idea why something is not

working and everything breaks and

sometimes structure is nice to have. Um,

let's see.

Oh, we're not logged in. That's probably

it. Yeah, let's let's log in. I think

that's the thing. Let's first log in and

then we go. So, maybe it works.

Sign up. See, it's too it's too good.

So, also I use starter projects because

I think that makes it way easier to

write good code.

um undo last thing

because it has already like a like a

vision. It has a set of tools. It has

like someone that actually knows what

works because they have experience

uh baked in. So I I would recommend

using like some kind of starter kit.

Okay. Well, we have a beautiful vibe

coded.

Wow. This is like email management.

Yeah,

I guess it made Gmail as well. Okay,

summarize all emails. Batch

summarization started for all emails.

Well, hang on. What what let's go back

to your previous point. What is starter

project like just

Yeah. So, a starter project like there

are these people that like for example,

this one is called Jumpstart Pro from

Chris Oliver. And there are others uh

like there there there are projects

where there is already like a stack

selected like stripe for payments or

superbase for hosting or Nex.js JS for

this with uh shed CN or whatever the

technology stack is because they know

that works well and they have experience

and um they made those decisions for you

and then you can focus on

your business logic like you you like

what is built in here is sign up stripe

payments account management like they're

all the things everyone needs

but they're not unique to anyone like

everyone needs that So if you start with

something like that, it also gives the

AI already like a starting point and and

like a opinion of like these are the

tools you should use instead of it going

with clerk and like something else the

next time and like sometimes the

grounding in in those decisions and

libraries

can work very well. Yeah.

And and and where do you find get

started projects? just search on or just

ask chatd or

oh yeah I would I would do that. Yeah I

I would totally so it is um it depends

in what language you want to build as

well but just like chat GBT deep

research starter projects and just

explain what kind of problems you're

solving and what kind of things you

should probably have included and some

are like very bare bones and some are uh

very build out. Um,

yeah.

But yeah, like yeah, it's funny. We

rebuilt Gmail.

I'm I'm sure I hear I'm sure there is

like now something running somewhere.

Let Let me look at the routes. Let me do

old school. Let's see what we have

because uh

uh so let's see. We have

so Yeah. Yeah. And and this is one thing

I don't like about work trees. Um you're

like now in here and like oh but I don't

see anything because that's because

we're not in the work tree.

Um so here let's go here.

So so you have this get work trees here

as well. So you can see uh see the work

trees here as well. And let's see we're

in

02 email summation empty. Yeah. So here

let me open this. So now if you want to

jump into a work tree using cursor or

any other like this is how you can open

it. So now I am in this work tree and

now I should see the rounds

that were added

technically.

Um

but but I don't but that doesn't matter

because we can also go here and say

routes. What I want to see is if there's

any other

if there's anything else cool we can

look at. Um

Oh, you mean like all the things this

is? Yeah, like like now it's it Yeah,

like I like I it did something but I I

don't account. So we have

build a lot of stuff, man.

Yeah. So yeah, it didn't build all of

this but because some was included

already but

okay

let's see like we have the accounts. Um

let's grab for accounts

and

messages. Yeah. So we have messages.

Oh yeah, that's that's not it.

See the here is like where I'm like

visual would be great.

Yeah, you're and you're Yeah, you're

this also the screen is a little bit

small but yeah I uh I think this is it

for now. I I I cannot find uh or wait

let me do

Yeah, no worries.

Yeah, my goal was to um

show like ways how this could work

um and hopefully inspire some people.

Okay, so summarize. Okay, so we have

summarize batch

email search new.

I think there's no view for the

summarization yet. And okay and and like

okay another way like is there a view

for the summarization at all like you

could ask cloth also. So there's always

different ways uh to get answers here

and lean into their old school ways to

do this but also like experiment with

new ways.

Yeah. Got it. Okay. Yeah. I mean it can

basically play like multiple roles right

like PM it can be design.

Yeah. It's that's really the the mind

shift is

think of it like a colleague more than a

coding assistant because

that is just one thing it can do. It can

be a PM, it can write product marketing

like it can uh post a change log, it can

write in your voice and all of that. So

yeah absolutely.

So why don't we uh I want to make sure

we have time to show the the real

product like the the Kora if if you're

Cool. Yeah. So we were trying to kind of

do Kora but yeah like let me show like a

view that I hoped it would have created

was something like this

which um like Kora you connect to your

Gmail it will look at all the emails

that come in and everything that is not

important or not urgent enough to

immediately see we archive and that is a

very scary thing but also an incredible

feeling if you open your inbox and

suddenly you only see stuff you need to

look at which is very very nice

and everything else is um archived and

summarized for you and you receive it

twice a day and we also make things

important. So the the more important

things are on the top. So you can see

here more important messages for me uh

newsletters uh summarize like what are

the main points and sometimes like you

have more than one

which is really fun and like I have so

many newsletters that I don't even read

all of them and this way at least I can

see if I want to read it because

sometimes I read it and I'm like oh

actually this one sounds nice and I want

to read it and you can go here or open

in Gmail and promotions like no one

looks at promotions in

in their email. But now

like I see $75 or 50 or like it's easier

to scan these and

sometimes like I find a coupon where

like oh actually I want coffee from that

roster and they have 20% off so why not?

Like this is the time and I would have

never done that before. If you don't

want these you can always just not have

them.

Mhm. Um

and also if there is something like uh

like this and say hey this is actually

this is under under other but it should

be in journaling. So you can just say oh

can you make it journaling and you can

talk with Kora and uh the assistant here

can take action for you and learn how

you want to do things. We also draft

emails for you. Um, yeah, it's really

fun like people saying like, "Oh man,

like I feel so much calmer. Uh, like

this works for me." And like just having

those that feedback is great because

that's what I feel and I just built this

for myself really. Uh, because I think

email is terrible.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, there's so much more uh

craft to it than just like a very

sterile Gmail inbox, right? So,

yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And

um behind the scenes is basically like

the LM categorizing and summarizing

stuff.

Yeah, it's it's actually pretty complex.

There are rules, there are many LM

workflows, there are many different LMS,

but the goal is for you to feel

confident it does the right thing. And

that means

a different thing for everyone because

everyone has a different personality. So

it's a lot about like understanding who

you are and what you where your risk

factor like like how risky are you

because some some investors might want

to read everything but like some

engineers might not want to read

anything. So it's like how do you find

that for everyone and uh yeah lots of

emails and uh prompting and fun things.

Yeah.

Yeah. I think uh that that's actually

one of the lessons I've learned from AI

products like you got to give the human

ability to provide input so that it

becomes more valuable over time like

like if I provide a bunch of input it

becomes better right

so

yeah and and it's not only here it's

also with if you do engineering like if

you do something

don't do it again tomorrow just make

sure that whatever you did is a slash

command so the AI can do it the next day

yeah so yeah it applies like make sure

everything you do is like compounding

because it's better.

Yeah, this is like you know I wanted to

demo clock code but uh the MD file thing

was like the slash command thing was

kind of like a eye opener like for for

me. Yeah, even if I want to

in my blog post maybe I'll start using

clock code to do that. Yeah, you can do

everything. And also you can write

custom scripts like if you have a very

specific tool you have or use, you can

just say, "Hey, is there an API for

this?" And can you just write a little

script and say, "Hey, there's this

script that you can run in your cloth MD

as well." Um, and yeah, that that works

that works great as well.

And and you just put these MD files,

these prompts into the command there's

like a commands folder.

Yeah, it's undercloud commands in in

here. But you can also have them

systemwide. Uh just read the anthropic

documentation on it like there's or feed

it to the to the AI like I'm still

I'm still confused why they didn't have

that baked into cloud code but someone

like someone is already working on it I

think

uh to do that. Yeah

dude. Uh so last question man like I I

feel like this is super awesome. I feel

like for the for the non-engineers

watching this they might feel a little

bit intimidated by all the stuff they

just showed. So like do you have any

words of advice?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like just do it. Don't

feel intimidated. But also like I I'm

doing this for a while and now I'm very

comfortable with it. But like when I

started I was like a baby as well. I was

like like that's fine. And the the most

important part is not to listen to the

gurus and the people say this is how it

works because

that's not how it works for you. like

you should figure out how it works for

you but you should listen to other

people that push the boundaries to see

like hey maybe I should push more

towards that and that could be like

non-technical people just install cloth

and like try it have it do one very

simple thing and just see see that one

simple thing uh like exceed or not and

and experiment with it like I think the

play aspect is just go play with it no

like Don't say I want to redo how I

write blog posts or an entire like

workflow because it's hard. Just do one

simple thing and see if it can do that

and then build on top of that.

I love it. And and and where can people

find uh Kora?

Kora. You can try Kora.computer. We have

7-day free trial and either you love it

and some people hate it. And uh

yeah,

more people love it uh lately. So I'm

very very glad with that. Um, I post

lots of stuff on X, like very deep,

nerdy coding stuff, but also just more

philosophical

takes. So, if you want to see any of

those, uh, you can follow me there as

well.

All right, Karen. Well, thanks so much,

man. It was so great uh meeting you

online and having you walk through all

this. Uh, one one day if I stumble

around enough, I'll become as good as

you doing all this stuff. So,

I I'm a beginner. Thank you. Yeah, thank

you for having me on. C.