He Turns Everyday Brands Into OBSESSIONS - Here’s the Playbook!

My ideal scenario is that how you interact with our company, whether you buy our products or you sell to us or you just walk into the lobby one time and you never come back. Somehow we make your life a little better.

My hometown is Louisville, Kentucky, as you know, and I know you lived in Louisville, Kentucky, and and I understand you grew up in Owensboro, Kentucky.

>> I got to ask you, are you a Kentucky Wildcat fan? Well, I'm going to get a

Wildcat fan? Well, I'm going to get a lot of uh shade from this, but no, I am not a Kentucky Wildcat fan. I grew up an Indiana Hooser fan, believe it or not, and a Louisville Cardinal fan.

[laughter] >> That's funny because when I moved to Louisville, I was an Indiana fan, a Louisville fan, and a Kentucky fan, and

a Kansas fan. Now, nobody and I guarantee you nobody in this part of the world has those four teams. But but when you grow up here, you you you really throw the mantle down behind Indiana, Kentucky, or Louisville. [laughter] No

question about it.

>> You know, I am I still play a lot of basketball today. I'm a basketball

basketball today. I'm a basketball fanatic. I admire great basketball. So,

fanatic. I admire great basketball. So,

I've always admired Kentucky, but I if you ask me if I was a fan, I was a fan back when Bobby Knight was uh the Hooers coach, and he was crazy at times. So, so

I lost a lot of love for that. But I did love the fundamentals and that's what Indiana always stood for.

>> So you had to have a hoop in your driveway like everybody else in Kentucky.

>> I had a hoop in my backyard that my dad laid with some some other guys he worked with and they they made the mistake at the end of getting a broom and brushing

it over the top and it made it the roughest court you've ever seen. And I

had I still have scars on both knees and both elbows from that. You look in great shape, so it's it's obvious you're out there on that basketball court. That

that's pretty hard. When I got to be about 40 40, I'd go one way, but my body wouldn't go with me. So, I gave it up.

[laughter] >> I ignore that. I ignore that myself. And

luckily, the people I play with seem to.

I know. I love it. I still play three or four times a week. I'm a fanatic.

>> Well, Bracken, you you didn't make the NBA, but but you're known for making design a competitive advantage wherever you go. What's the most fun thing that

you go. What's the most fun thing that you've ever helped design?

>> Boy, that's tough. You know, I I I my definition of design is probably much broader on a product level. I helped um my head of uh my head of design design an iPad keyboard cover that had a little

loop in it for a for a pencil for the Apple Pencil, Apple uh pen. And and I that that was probably the product that I loved the most because we did it so fast and it was based on real consumer

insight. From a real design standpoint

insight. From a real design standpoint though, I'd say re redesigning Logitech for to become what it was was probably the most fun thing I've ever done.

Although this one that I'm working on now is going to be the most fun when we're done.

>> Well, you're you're off to darn good start and you're making great progress and and you you've led some great brands, you know, from Old Spice to Logitech and now Northface and all the

brands that you have there. Uh so I'm really curious, you know, when when you look outside, you know, what what brands do you admire for their design and

creativity and and overall positioning?

>> Uh you know, I I like I look across a lot of things. I think there are so many great great brands and great designers out there. Uh and some some that people

out there. Uh and some some that people probably wouldn't think of as designers, but I'd say, you know, everybody looks at Apple, it's hard not to. Apple's just

got such an incredible story. and Johnny

IVive had had such a monstrous impact on all of us. Johnny IV, Steve Jobs, you know, there's a whole crew over there that did that all those all those amazing products and still are. So, I

think Apple's hard not to look at them, but but there are so many great companies. You know, when I look at

companies. You know, when I look at people like Hermes or Louis Vuitton or Sephora, you know, I think it depends on what kind of design you're talking about, whether it's store design or product design or or website design.

There's a there's just a lot of amazing things happening out there and it's a great time to be in design. You know,

you have more and more tools that you can do. You can basically have a team of

can do. You can basically have a team of designers working for you now that that that AI can enable. So, it's a it's an exciting time to to believe in design.

>> You know, what was going on in your life, Bracken, when when uh uh VF came calling and and what made you say yes?

>> Well, I'd been uh I'd been doing this job for about 11 years. Uh actually, you know what? I'll go back. I'll go back,

know what? I'll go back. I'll go back, David. And I'll I'll tell you a story

David. And I'll I'll tell you a story before that. But after my first five

before that. But after my first five years at Logitech, I was uh the company had completely transformed. You know, it was very different company than when I joined in so many ways. And so I really

wondered if I was the right guy for the job for the next five years. I was doing my annual kind of assessment of myself.

And I thought, you know, I wonder if I really am the right person. So I decided to write up what the what the next CEO should be like if it's if it weren't whether it's me or not. And I and I did that. And then I then I wrote down my

that. And then I then I wrote down my credentials on the other side of the page. And I thought, you know, I'd be in

page. And I thought, you know, I'd be in the running. But I just read thinking

the running. But I just read thinking fast and slow, which you probably read.

And I and I was thinking, you know, can I really be objective, though? Because

I've touched every product, every leader, every strategy. You know, I feel ownership for all of them. Can I really take those apart when it's when I need to? And so I thought, nah, there's no

to? And so I thought, nah, there's no way. So I decided, I'm I'm going to I'm

way. So I decided, I'm I'm going to I'm going to quit. I'm going to I'll I'll tell my chair tomorrow and then I'm going to go do something different because I'll I can do something different. and we'll find somebody who's

different. and we'll find somebody who's a better fit, who's got more objectivity. So, I went to bed that

objectivity. So, I went to bed that night and I slept on it like I started to do decisions about. Then woke up the next morning like I often would and said, "You know what? I was wrong. I

just need to be completely objective and park everything I ever did and not be afraid to undo anything I touched." And

so, I really signed a new contract for myself. Didn't tell anybody and I

myself. Didn't tell anybody and I started over again. And I went into the job feeling like a newcomer. I tell you that story because I did that serially then for the next you know every year or

two I would do the same thing and it helped me stay fresh and objective in my job but then after 11 years I thought you know I'm running a public company I just turned 60 I thought you know they

might not let me no maybe nobody will want me to run another public company at some point and at some point I will leave Logitech and it's inevitable so maybe I should start listening so I

started listening to recruiter calls and and VF called and it it sounded Super exciting.

>> Yeah, that's fantastic. But I love this notion of how you reinvented yourself every year. Basically, almost like

every year. Basically, almost like firing yourself.

>> Yeah, I I b that's what I do. That's how

I describe it. Normally, I did fire myself and and then I rehired a new me under a new contract with uh there were no nothing was sacred. And I and I never regret that. And I and it it's

regret that. And I and it it's consistent with something I really believe in, David, and I wonder what you think of it is. I listened to Steve Jobs commencement address when he said, you know, if you look in the mirror in too many days in a row and you don't like

what you see because you don't like the I'm I'm paraphrasing, but you don't like uh what you're doing, then you should change it, you know. And I and so I was thinking I I kind of think, you know, if

you get up if you get up every day and you think, wow, actually I I flip that around a little bit. There's nothing

that I have to be today that I was yesterday. I can completely transform

yesterday. I can completely transform myself today. I can decide. I can take

myself today. I can decide. I can take completely different set of decisions. I

can do a different job. I can do have different passions. I can make different

different passions. I can make different decisions. And I think that's at the

decisions. And I think that's at the heart of what I really believe in is that starting every day fresh or at least every year fresh and saying, "Okay, I really am going to

strategically live my life rather than just go through in on autopilot, which we all do all too much." So, I really believe in that. You know, Brad, can

you, you know, since you asked me about my process for doing that, I I do what I call my 3x5 exercise every year where I put down what am I today and how can I be more effective tomorrow? And then the

same thing with the business, you know, but it's a basic, you know, it's basic you have to have high self-awareness of yourself and and and your business, you know, for example, right now, what would you be working on to to make yourself

better as a leader?

>> You know, I'm trying to be better at giving feedback to my team. You know, I think uh I'm a very intuitive person. So

I you know, like like a unfortunately I think by the time you get to to the age of 60, you become very intuitive because you've you've got your pattern recognition is so you've you've you've practiced and practiced it so many

times. But I think it's uh the the

times. But I think it's uh the the downside of that is you can sometimes not do a good enough job expressing how you're thinking and what you're thinking and why you're thinking it to your team.

And I often I catch myself not doing that enough. And I'm trying to do a

that enough. And I'm trying to do a better job of that. So, that's one thing I'm really working on. The other one is, you know, I'll give you a board example.

Um, I think with my I was lucky in my Logitech board experiences because I had a fantastic uh partner in crime my first few years who had been the CEO and he was the chair and he led a lot of the

interference for me with the board. But

I learned uh through along the years, man, I'm not very good at managing this board. You I mean, I like them. they

board. You I mean, I like them. they

like me, but in terms of really working with them to make sure that I'm getting the most out of them, that they're feeling they they feel ownership for what we're doing and the decisions, I wasn't very good at it. So, I'm really

worked on that here to do better. And

I've got a fantastic board. I had a fantastic board of Logitech, too. I've

got a fantastic board. So, I'm really working at trying to make sure that I'm really getting the most out of them. I

spend more time with my board here than I did before. Not too much, but enough.

And I and it's I think it's one of the exciting things that I'm making progress on. And is the key to that just getting

on. And is the key to that just getting more involvement from them and and asking them what they think or you know what's what's your secret in that area?

>> It really is because I think you know boards can be just something you go to once a quarter and you get the document the stuff sent out ahead of time. You

read it, you go and then you you react.

Or they can be something where you really feel uh ownership for the company. not not as a not as a manager

company. not not as a not as a manager because you're not running the company, but really really where you feel like, wow, I really understand more what's going on in a deep way. And I think the be one of the best ways to achieve that

is to go one-on-one with board members and talk through the issues you're facing and just make sure that they feel uh aware and they are aware of what's happening and they're not surprised during the meetings with the latest set

of information they get. And so that's really what I've tried to do. That's

probably like uh you know obvious to a lot of CEOs out there. It was probably not obvious to me [laughter] and I and I'm getting better and better at it and I love my board and I love what I'm

getting out of them.

>> So you you you left you left uh Logitech and you you went to VF and what was it that really got you excited about this opportunity?

>> You know I think I loved as you said in the the beginning of this podcast I love design and I love products you know that and I love and I love marketing too. you

know where where could you possibly go to work on uh products have as many products to do think about how many products we must do every year you don't have to know anything about our business

to know we must be putting out thousands of new products every year and we are and then secondly think of think of the brands we have I mean they we all grew up touching and some cases you know

inhaling and exhaling these brands like Timberland and the Northace and it's such a an incredibly exciting thing to be able to to figure out what are the next products we're going to have for them. How do we engage with consumers

them. How do we engage with consumers even better in this time when engagement's everything? So, it's a

engagement's everything? So, it's a super super exciting business to work in. Hey friends, [music]

in. Hey friends, [music] I hope you're loving this conversation with David and Bracken. And if you are loving it, which I'm sure you are, I want you to stay tuned to the very end of the conversation where David and I

debrief this interview. But we're going to give you some really practical takeaways from this conversation that you can apply to your leadership, to your life, and to your work. And

honestly, it's just a lot of fun to talk about all the iconic brands that Bracken has the privilege of being able to lead uh with his company at VF. So, I hope you stay tuned to the very end of the

episode and enjoy the rest of this conversation with David and Bracken. And

you know, I want to dig more into VF in a minute, but but first I'd like to take take you back and tell us a story from your childhood that one that really shaped the kind of leader you are today.

>> You know, there's so many things that shape you when you're a child. I guess

maybe the one maybe what I would say is I was about this height. You can't tell.

I look I look pretty tall actually. I'm

looking at myself here. I'm about 5'11 now. I was about 5'11 when I was 11 and

now. I was about 5'11 when I was 11 and 12 and 13 and so on. So, I've been 5'11 for a long time now. 5'11 when you're 12 or 11 is a lot different from 5'11 when

you're when you're 21 or or 62.

>> You were Will Chamberlain for a while.

>> I was absolutely [laughter] I was and I was about I was, you know, I had two like rough and tumble older brothers and a and a great younger sister. And so, I was a pretty good athlete, you know. I

was big, I was fast, I was strong, I was bigger than ever, almost everybody else, I think everybody else. And so, I was a natural leader. And everybody looked up

natural leader. And everybody looked up to me physically and uh and looked up to me because I was just big and I was successful in sports and stuff. And then

I had a mom who's a first grade teacher.

So I I learned to read really early and I was good in school. So I had these these advantages that had nothing to do really with me except that they were in the the DNA advantage, temporary advantage of getting things early. So I

was the team captain. I was this and that. By the time I got to the eighth

that. By the time I got to the eighth grade, people were starting to catch up.

I went from being the center to the forward. Then in ninth grade, 10th

forward. Then in ninth grade, 10th grade, 11th, 12th grade, I went from the the the the big forward to the small forward to the two guard to the point guard who couldn't handle the ball well enough

and uh and I and along the way I realized, you know, I'm probably not going to get into the NBA, as you said in the beginning of this podcast. So, my

best shot is really to do to to plan for something else. And what I what I

something else. And what I what I figured out that I really love was leadership. Once I realized that, I I

leadership. Once I realized that, I I realized I didn't have what it takes. I

was very shy. I was terrified to speak in public. Um, even though I was very,

in public. Um, even though I was very, you know, in quotation marks popular, I wasn't popular because I was out there getting in front of everybody. I was

popular because I was big and I was an athlete and I and I was pretty good in school. So, I had to work at being

school. So, I had to work at being friendly and warm and and showing that I cared about people because I always did.

So, I started when in about the ninth grade or 10th grade, I started being I just willed myself to be friendly and to be extroverted. You know, you talk about

be extroverted. You know, you talk about introverts and extrovert. Well, I

decided I was going to be an extrovert.

And I would just smile at everybody and be as warm as I could with everybody and talk to everybody. And it was the best thing I ever did in my life because I realized how much how how much you can

um improve your life and the people's lives around you if you actually do care enough to talk to people. And so that was probably the biggest change in my entire life. And it all happened between

entire life. And it all happened between about the age of, you know, 14, 15, 16.

Yeah, I it's so it's so interesting to listen to you because when when I was a kid, I moved into around my dad was a government surveyor, went to all these small towns and uh I was always the best

athlete and then I moved to the big city Kansas City and I quickly learned that I was not. [laughter] And so I went

was not. [laughter] And so I went through the exact same process as you and realized I had to survive in some other manner than be being the major league baseball player I thought I could

become, you know. So, you go you're good to school. You you go to Harvard,

to school. You you go to Harvard, fantastic education. You joined Proctor

fantastic education. You joined Proctor and Gamble, which is a company known for shaping great leaders. Uh, was there anybody at PNG who showed you what great

leadership was was all about? And and

what did that person do that's that stuck to you if you had that kind of person?

>> Yeah. By the way, I went to Hendricks College, too, a small college in Arkansas that I loved. Um I yeah the a lot of people um made me better at PNG.

But I I'll point out one who I still feel very close to today is Susan Arnold. Susan uh became vice chair of

Arnold. Susan uh became vice chair of PNG and then became the chair of Disney and she just had a phenomenal career.

She's retired now, but she's she's a wonderful human being. She believed in me, you know, when when I'm not even sure I believed in me as much as she did. and she came into the I was I had

did. and she came into the I was I had been running uh Old Spice deodorant as an assistant brand manager, which for those of you who don't know what that is, that's like well that's exactly what it sounds like. You're the assistant to somebody. But I didn't have a brand

somebody. But I didn't have a brand manager because my brand manager moved out. I felt responsible for figuring out

out. I felt responsible for figuring out how to turn this thing around that had been in a steep decline, you know, for years and years and the company was about to give up on it. And and so I I

had this plan and and I shared it with Mike WGI who also had a big impact on me and Susan Arnold. And you know, Susan just really believed in me and and said, you know, look, if you really believe this is the right thing to do, it sounds

makes sense to me. We're going to have to sell it to the the the mythical 11th floor at PNG, which was this place where all the top executives live, you know, and it's got art on the walls and all

this stuff. It's very quiet up there.

this stuff. It's very quiet up there.

And so we made I don't know how many trips up there. I went with Susan and then later with Mike and Susan after he arrived and and we sold piece by piece this multi-step change that that I had

planned and uh and I I saw from her such common sense, such cander. She had fun at work. She walked around barefooted

at work. She walked around barefooted all the time, laughed like crazy. She

was also very serious. She was a super hard worker, very smart, didn't hold back. She could be really tough. I just

back. She could be really tough. I just

learned so much from her and uh and I still admire her today. I sent her a note not too long ago. I just said, you know, I just want to thank you because you had such a big impact on my career.

>> I'm sure she loved that recognition. How

much is recognition a part of what you do on an everyday basis with your own people?

>> You know, I no matter how much you recognize other people, you never do it enough. So, I I I I hope I'm doing it um

enough. So, I I I I hope I'm doing it um I hope I'm doing it 50% enough. I I try to recognize people. I always think, you know, there's just when things are going

right, man, there's just no limit to how many people are involved and should get recognized. And so, I try to do that and

recognized. And so, I try to do that and I try to make them feel good about what the contribution they made. Um, when

things go wrong, you know, I I really I I really believe, you know, especially when you're the CEO, really, it really is all about you. It's something you could have changed almost always. So, I

try to pass along the good good vibes and and suck up the bad ones. and then

and then do what Susan did with me and make sure that I'm being candid with people and giving them coaching where I can. As I said in the early in the

can. As I said in the early in the podcast, I'm really working on that to do it better.

>> Now, Old Spice was like a pretty old stodgy brand and you turned it into more youthful image certainly gave it a much

cooler feel. You know, what what did you

cooler feel. You know, what what did you see and what was your process that you you went through to really say, "Hey, this is this is how we could turn the corner on this brand." Look, first of

all, I didn't I was not the one who who defined the campaign as the ad campaign of the the guy on the horseback, which was brilliant.

>> What I did, >> one of the best ever. Yeah,

>> one of the best ever. What I did do with a guy named Larry Plowsky is we wrote a the the Larry drafted and and he and I worked together on kind of the seminal document that set the tone for that that

really said, "Here's where we're going to take it." What I did do was the the the deep turnaround that went on for a couple of years. And what I learned in that was before I'd gotten there, they

had changed every piece of the marketing, but not in synchron not in a synchronized way. So I changed the

synchronized way. So I changed the pricing. I actually lowered prices,

pricing. I actually lowered prices, which doesn't happen at PNG very often.

I lowered prices. I changed the the name of the product. I made some really tough cost decisions. We upgraded a product.

cost decisions. We upgraded a product.

Then we changed the advertising, which was probably the hardest. And we changed the advertising. I was new enough not to

the advertising. I was new enough not to realize that you you try not to cross your agency very much if you know and David you'll appreciate this you know the ad agency loved the campaign we had

and I didn't think it was working so I didn't have a boss at the time as I said so Susan was two layer two above me with nobody between me and her and so I really didn't have a chance to ask opinions so because I couldn't see her

that much so I I decided to just make my own commercial with a local agency and it was uh and I and I did and it was it was a commercial where a guy got on screen and he said, "Hey, you know, th

this thing, this product is better than whatever you're using, and if you don't think so, we'll buy you a stick of your own product." I had a it was incredibly

own product." I had a it was incredibly difficult to get that through legal because they were afraid we were going to bankrupt the company because we're going to it was a guarantee where you'd buy people competitive product if they decided they wanted to. I wasn't worried

about that at all because we had a great product. So, the bottom line is we did

product. So, the bottom line is we did it. We had this young guy on screen

it. We had this young guy on screen doing it. It was very likable and and so

doing it. It was very likable and and so we tested it and it tested exactly like you would expect based on the fact that I'm telling the story. It was one of the most boring ads ever created and

[laughter] but it was convincing. And so I I went I went to my agency. I went to Susan. She

said, "Look, this is boring, but it's very convincing." She said, "Uh, what do

very convincing." She said, "Uh, what do you want to do?" I said, "I think we should go with it." She said, "Then go with it." So, we went with it. And that

with it." So, we went with it. And that

plus all those other changes we made, you know, we doubled the the market share in one year and then we doubled it again. We went up 50% again the next

again. We went up 50% again the next year and then and then 50% from there.

So, we just were off to the races.

>> That's fantastic. And and then you you did a huge turnaround at the Logitech.

What did you what did you walk into in that situation? And and do you have a

that situation? And and do you have a playbook that you use or think about when you look at brands and and and they may be struggling? The situation in VF

was very similar to the situation in Logitech. So, um the the business was in

Logitech. So, um the the business was in decline. The products the products uh

decline. The products the products uh weren't in in Logitech the products weren't good enough. Um and we had we had kind of underinvested in product

development and innovation. Um and we didn't have any designers. So, we had literally all of our design was was outside. So, we didn't have any

outside. So, we didn't have any designers in the room. And I had come from Brun. I don't know if you know

from Brun. I don't know if you know Braun, but Bronn shavers and emulators and there's this very famous designer named Derita Rams who I'd gotten to uh meet with a lot and and Braun was really

the closest thing I'd ever experienced to a design company. Uh you know, Dita Rams was the inspir one of the big inspirations for Johnny I that Johnny Johnny told me later. So, so I I fell in

love with design there and I and I decided I wanted to create a design company and when I so the the central change that we made was to to really get the company focused around design. What

is design? Design is is about creating uh an experience for users around what users really need whether they can express that need or not or or what they want. And so so I hired my first

want. And so so I hired my first designer who was uh Alistair Curtis who who actually I have hired here. So he

works with me at VF again. He worked

with me for 10 years there and we really went we we resized the company because we had gotten too fat. We really the company had grown just like BF for a long long long time and then when it stopped we realized wow for the last few

years we were still really good at growing the company but only in overhead not in revenue and that's a problem. So

we we had to resize the company and then we really focused on getting great products and building the brand and and the rest is kind of history. I mean it was a very great it was a really exciting story. I think we 10x the value

exciting story. I think we 10x the value of the company over 10 years and you know we'll see if we can do that at B app [laughter] >> and but how do you bring this design

creativity innovation how do you bring that to a 125year-old apparel company >> you know the cool thing is uh people are hungry for great design consumers are

hungry for it employees are hungry for it design is extends way beyond the the product you deliver to users it's also you can design your benefit benefits program so they're built around the users in your company. You can design

your accounting and the way you close your books every quarter so that it's designed around the people who need to get that done so they can move on to the next quarter. You can design everything

next quarter. You can design everything and you really should be designing everything. And so I I think getting

everything. And so I I think getting people excited about the concept of design isn't hard that that because at the end what you're really saying is let's all care about the user. Now, some

people are closer to the user of our products and what we do to create those products than others in the company, but we all support that somehow. And so, and and we're all users inside the company

of our own services. So, it's it's early days just like it was about two years in at Logitech. You know, I certainly don't

at Logitech. You know, I certainly don't think I had uh I don't think we' we' we'd transformed Logitech into a design company after two years, but give us five and I think we can and we'll do it

here to a BF. You know, it seems to me, you know, when you're talking about design innovation creativity you know, obviously the marketing team's going to probably gravitate gravitate to

it quicker, but you you you're talking about design across all aspects of the business. You're in and inculcating that

business. You're in and inculcating that into your culture. How do you how do you do that, Bracken? I mean, how do you how do you get somebody in accounting to think about design? I mean, they're

further away from the customer like you say. I think design h design the term

say. I think design h design the term design can be intimidating because it can sound like the domain of Virgil Abau you know or or Fel you know who who are

great design leaders or designers um but if you can simplify it into you know how do you make how do you make this better for users which is really what it's all

about um how do you make this I I my ideal scenario okay this is a I'll dream for a little bit here my ideal scenario is that no matter what how you interact with our company whether you buy our

products or you sell to us or you just walk in the lobby one time and you never come back. Somehow we make your life a

come back. Somehow we make your life a little better. That's the goal

little better. That's the goal everywhere. And then if you take the

everywhere. And then if you take the people inside the company, my goal is that everybody in the company is growing the entire time they're here and they're they're positively growing all the time.

So So to do that, you've got to care about it. So we you know our values we

about it. So we you know our values we we define growth you know really being a having a growth mindset as one of our core values and we're we're building training programs internally that are

very much about personal growth and growing yourself and your capability that connects directly to growing our brands and growing our business and growing our our share price and growing everything. And you know all that can

everything. And you know all that can only happen if we do two things well.

One, we create products that people want to put on and feel and they feel a little better about themselves when they do. And the second one is we create

do. And the second one is we create these clubs that people want to be part of. They feel an affiliation with they

of. They feel an affiliation with they feel part they feel ownership of in a way called brands, you know, and I think when we do those two things well, the whole the whole system could work

>> and that's what we're working on. And

and I won't pretend that it's easy and I and I don't think I ever got all the way there in in Logitech. Maybe you do never get all the way there, but it's such an exciting thing to try and along the way,

I think you can make huge uh huge impact in value creation. You know, you're [snorts] you're leading a portfolio of some of the world's most iconic lifestyle brands. Uh and I'd like to go

lifestyle brands. Uh and I'd like to go through a few of the brands and pull out a key story from from each one of them.

You know, let's start with Northace. you

know, when a product like the the puffer jacket suddenly becomes a fashion statement, you know, how do you make sure the brand's purpose, exploration,

and performance doesn't get lost?

>> Yeah, you know, it's it's a great question. So, Caroline Brown, who runs

question. So, Caroline Brown, who runs that brand, and she's got a fantastic team around her, uh, we talk about that a lot because we talk about there are two kinds of people we're really catering to and then the the bulk of our

market is in the middle. On the one end of the spectrum, it's the obsessive explorer. It's the person who's just

explorer. It's the person who's just obsessed. Alex Hunold, you know, who is

obsessed. Alex Hunold, you know, who is obsessed with exploring the edge of everything. You know, the guy who did

everything. You know, the guy who did Free Solo, you know, he's going to climb 101 story tower in Taipei soon with no ropes. You know, these are the people

ropes. You know, these are the people and we literally develop products for those people uh to optimize to perfect their experience because they're they're it really is a life and death experience when we develop products for them. And

the same thing for a person who's climbing Everest or skiing down Everest.

We've got um people have skied down Everests, believe it or not. So, we've

got all these athletes who really are on the very edge of it. On the other end of the spectrum, you've got you got people who really love to express who they are and they're also part of our family. So,

we do collaborations with Gucci and collaborations with a lot of, you know, skims and, you know, so being able to express yourself, but they still believe in that. They still like the performance

in that. They still like the performance attributes or aspect of the brand, but they have a different need that we've got to deliver. And there's everybody in between. So, we try to make sure that

between. So, we try to make sure that every one of our products has this performance dimension that that echoes through through from from the from that Alex Hunnel experience all the way

through to the consumer, even if they're wearing it just to get on the New York subway and stay warm.

>> That's great. And and Vans has always been rooted in creativity and a youth culture. Uh what's the leadership

culture. Uh what's the leadership takeaway you've drawn from from that team about keeping a brand fresh and and relevant? You know, we're we're in the

relevant? You know, we're we're in the middle of that now. And Sunsh runs that brand and and she's uh she's a perfect example of the brand's off-the-wall idea. I mean, I think you've got to get

idea. I mean, I think you've got to get down to the real essence of what the brand's all about. And if you really get down to the essence of what what Vans is all about, it's about being offthe-wall.

It's about being a little different and feeling good about yourself, being different. You know, I think you and I

different. You know, I think you and I probably can relate going back to when we were 13 and 14. You felt different. I

felt different. Everybody feels

different. You know, Vans gives you permission to feel different, but be part of something. You're off the wall and and the more different you are, the more exciting it is. And so, I think we brought back the Warp Tour, which you

may or may not know what it is, but it was this big uh uh music festival that ran multi- cities around the world for many years, and we stopped it in 2018,

well before I got there. And uh and we we with Kevin Lyman, a guy who run who owns and runs the tour now in partnership with us, we restarted it this year. And it's so exciting, you

this year. And it's so exciting, you know, because it you really get to see how deeply embedded in the culture this off-the-wall mindset is in in in in all these cities we've been to so far. We've

done it in two cities so far. We're

doing a third in Orlando in November.

85,000 people in two days. It's one of the biggest music festivals there is now. It's so fun.

now. It's so fun.

>> Yeah. I just went to Bourbon and Beyond here in Louisville. So, I'll have to hit one of those up. That sounds like a lot of fun. You know, you said something

of fun. You know, you said something that was really interesting to me, which is you, you know, consumers want to feel different and be a part of something.

Talk about the and be a part of something part of that statement.

>> You know, h human beings are are social.

We're we're super social, right? We even

the least social of us are social. We

love people and we love to be a part of some of a group. And I think that the brands brands have each brand has its own uh soul, you know, and some brands

you feel more part of than others. And I

think that's at the that's at the heart of brand building and consumer market in in consumer marketing. And I it's one of the things I love the most about it, you know, about consumer brands is that you

really do feel an association with them.

And you and when you look someone in the eyes who's who's wearing the same thing you are in in our case, you know, another person wearing Vans, you feel a little close to them. There's something

there. You know, Timberland boots is another one. You know, I love Tims

another one. You know, I love Tims because no matter where, you know, if you go to a basketball game and you and you get lucky enough to get near the floor, you're going to see people wearing Timberlands on that floor.

Especially if you're in Madison Square Garden where Tims represent New York.

They also represent Baltimore and Chicago and Atlanta, others Detroit. But

there's something about Tims that everybody wears them when you see other people in them, you feel like, hey, I'm we're we're part of that group. You

know, you're I'm one of you.

>> You know, you say hiphop owns Tims. You know, we just shepherd it. Say more. You

know, I I think the the Schwarz family who created um Timberland would be the first to say and they have that uh when they created the brand, you know, the

the hip-hop movement really picked it up and ran with it and and really created and embedded it in the culture and it was the yellow boot that's was born in

the same year hip-hop was born. And so

they've grown up together and and I would say no brand is more owned by its culture than Timberland is owned by the hip-hop culture. And so we're very aware

hip-hop culture. And so we're very aware of that. I'm very aware of that and I

of that. I'm very aware of that and I love that aspect of it. We try to we try to really pay homage to it all the time because it's so important to the brand.

You know, you can't really I don't know.

I don't know if you feel this way, David. You've been doing consumer brands

David. You've been doing consumer brands your whole life, but in a way a really strong brand, you don't really own it.

the the the users who who own it, especially those who feel most passionate about it. You what you can do is contribute to that, but you and support it. And that's what we do.

support it. And that's what we do.

>> Yeah. And you you you've got this notion, which I really love, of of having your brands being a part part of a club, creating a club that people want to be a part of. I love that. Now,

you've really leaned into uh influencer partnerships at BF. What's a story about one that's been a runaway success and and what it's taught you?

>> Well, it's it's so early to call anything a runaway success yet because I've only been here a couple years. I'm

very excited about Siza. You know, Siza has agreed to be our an artistic director for us on bands. And you know, that might sound like just a name, but she's literally directly involved in

brainstorming where we're going next, what off-the-wall really is going to mean. I think for the for these

mean. I think for the for these influencer relationships to work, they have to be real. I mean, they have to you can't just pay money and have somebody put them on and think they're

going to work. You know, Siza Sa I I think she actually came to us because she's she loved Vance. She loved the off-the-wall idea. She feels

off-the-wall idea. She feels off-the-wall and if you follow her, she is offthe-wall. And I think she also is

is offthe-wall. And I think she also is a great representative of of uh of so many people in in this world who you know are trying new things on a regular basis and trying out stuff and not

afraid to take chances and fail. And so

I love that and I think although we're I can't talk about it, we've got several things in the pipeline on influencers that I'm very excited about and always trying to be really true to the brands but also stretch them. you definitely

are doing that and you know c can you give me an example of where you have all these brands they're they're iconic in their own right do you keep them independent or do you ask them to share

or what's your thinking about embracing other people's ideas and collaboration is this a competitive advantage for you or how do you think about that that whole independence of the brands and collaboration

>> I guess I'll I'll address that two ways one is the independence of the brands within our company we we we we operate very independently. So each brand has

very independently. So each brand has its own teams that build it and work on it and we do overlap in in some areas and where we do we we we try to make sure that the brands don't lose any of

their their uh their soul, you know, the definition of what they're all about. Um

when you talk about collaborations with other companies, I think they can really um you know, I've learned this because we didn't do many collaborations in in Logitech. I've learned that I think

Logitech. I've learned that I think collaborations can be very powerful as long as as long as you respect what each brand's all about and there's an overlap that is really that that connective

tissue that can can make each brand stronger. I we just did a a

stronger. I we just did a a collaboration with Telar in Timberland and it's an interesting one where they've got a they've got bags that that honestly feel very Timberland and were

co-designed by us with them and their boots which they varied the normal yellow boot to be it's not tied. It's a

it's kind of like a a wrinkled boot.

It's really cool. Feels very Timberland.

I think it's a very stretching collaboration and I really like it and we've got several of those. We've done

um we did a another one on Timberland with Louis Vuitton where Fel took the boot and and turned it into a Louis Vuitton boot boot, but it feels very elevated for Timberland and and right

and yet feels very culture for for Louis Vuitton. I think those are good examples

Vuitton. I think those are good examples of ones that really work.

>> Yeah, I've got to run out and check those out. I love it. You know, what do

those out. I love it. You know, what do you look look at in the leaders who who run your individual brands? I What are you really looking for? You know, I think the most important thing in a in a

leader is drive. You know, you can, you know, everybody's smart. You know, by the time you get to about age 33 or 35 or something, I think IQ's really that distribution curve really gets tight.

So, everybody's smart and uh and you can develop the social skills you need, you know, over time, but but there's something inside some people who have a lot of drive and really want to make a

difference and want to have a big impact. So, that's one. I love people

impact. So, that's one. I love people who are extremely driven and want and just want to have a big impact in a positive impact on people and on the business. Um, so that's probably the

business. Um, so that's probably the most important one. I'd say there there certainly are. There's I I I am I admit

certainly are. There's I I I am I admit biased to people who are who love speed.

I'm not a fast car driver. I'm not even into cars, but I do believe that um you there's a lot of discussion around Moes and competitive advantage and all that stuff. But I think in the end, you know,

stuff. But I think in the end, you know, having an orientation to be faster than everybody else is probably as good as any. And I and so people who just get

any. And I and so people who just get stuff done very quickly always impress me. And so I I noticed it in interviews

me. And so I I noticed it in interviews and I really noticed it at work.

[laughter] >> That's great. You know, as CEO, you got to make a lot of tough calls. And and

before you joined VF, the company acquired Supreme for $2.1 billion only to sell it later for $600 million loss.

uh you know I think this was under in under four years. Yeah. Take us inside your head on on how you make a decision like that.

>> Yeah. So so Supreme is a fantastic brand and it's a fantastic business. I love

the the the whole storyline of Supreme.

It's a very unique business model. It

runs differently from all the rest of our brands. Runs independently of all

our brands. Runs independently of all the rest of our brands. Completely

independently or ran independently. It

was um now what does that mean? That

means from a marketing, distribution, selling, product creation, supply chain, everything is independent inside Supreme. When I arrived, it also is

Supreme. When I arrived, it also is worth it's a very valuable brand. It's

worth $1.5 billion. So the the the start the starting point for me was does strategically does this brand fit inside our portfolio? It's much more of a

our portfolio? It's much more of a fashion street brand than a performance brand. Many of our brands, as you know,

brand. Many of our brands, as you know, like North Face, are very performanceoriented. While they sell a

performanceoriented. While they sell a lot of lifestyle products, those that's a crescendo off of a performance story.

That's not the case of Supreme.

Supreme's a street story. And uh and it's a business. It's a model story. So,

it I would say Supreme stood out for not for being different and independent in a in a company of independent brands. It

was by far the most independent. So, it

was for me it was a fairly easy decision. We got very fortunate that uh

decision. We got very fortunate that uh another company was really interested in Lexodica who we reached out to behind the scenes. One of our one of my leaders

the scenes. One of our one of my leaders did and we got a really an excellent price for it. Even though it was a loss of $600 million versus the original purchase price, it was well above what anybody thought we would get for it. So

it was a great price. It was a great exit and I think it's in a great home now.

>> You know, you mentioned earlier that AI is impacting your business today. I mean

h how is it bracken? We we probably have uh I don't think I'm exaggerating 20 different AI activities going on in the business ranging from financial

reporting to uh how we create products to how we design products. So so there's a and and how we market them. So it's

it's really going to touch everything.

Most of those are in relatively small scale right now. We've got a few things that we've scaled like customer service.

Um, but I think AI is is it I don't want to I don't want to minimize it because we all know how important it is, but it's another tool that we all have to use and we have to figure out how to bring it into our business appropriately

and that's what we're doing.

>> Yeah. And and for you personally, how are you using AI to make you a more effective leader? And and what advice

effective leader? And and what advice can you give to leaders on on how to really be able to to lead in that area because it's going to be so important?

>> You know, I I I I have two comments on that. First one is I personally use AI

that. First one is I personally use AI tools a lot. So I use Chat GPT. I I use lots of different tools and I use them in my personal life, my work life. For

example, I get all my medical information. I put it into Chat GBT. I

information. I put it into Chat GBT. I

take my name off it and I ask it how, you know, give me advice on what I should do. It's a it's a good a good

should do. It's a it's a good a good second uh test against my doctor. And

I've got several doctors. So it's it's a it's great. And you know, I think you

it's great. And you know, I think you can just do that in every part of your life. And I'm sure many many of your

life. And I'm sure many many of your listeners are you know the the second thing I'd say is I think there are two big decisions to make when it comes to any uh application of AI. One is am I

going to give it to the the lowest level person who might be able to use it today so they can be more productive or am I going to give it to the highest level person who can imagine how it could be

used today so they can make the whole company more productive. That might

sound like an easy answer or even a little duplicative but it's not. You

know sometimes the best application of AI is is is actually to to remove a whole function and replace it. Not it it will probably generate more jobs

somewhere else but for that function it won't be the and then the many other times most other times the best application of AI is to give it to the person who's designing something today so they can come up with 50 designs they

can filter that or 500 designs and filter it down to the two they really love. So, I just think those are those

love. So, I just think those are those are two things that I'm really uh observing about AI and how to how to begin to develop it and they're not easy answers.

>> You know, a lot of people see AI as a big uh productivity driver, but very few people talk about it on the revenue side. How do you think about that in

side. How do you think about that in terms of satisfying customers, driving revenue?

>> You know, I I I don't know yet. You

know, I think I think it will be a revenue driver. Um it's certainly going

revenue driver. Um it's certainly going to be a productivity driver. Um, and

it's hard for me to say yet. You know, I I because I I spent so much time at Logitech, I'm connected to a lot of this a lot of Silicon Valley types, you know, a lot of a lot of startups in the AI

space. And I'm seeing more and more that

space. And I'm seeing more and more that are more that are that are super interesting because they are they're they're personalizing AI or they're making it part of something that can actually I can imagine can enable

growth. And I don't want to be too

growth. And I don't want to be too detailed because then I'll I'll point to specific uh startups. But I think that's the that's the next big wave is how do

you create new businesses that can improve your life using AI and and I think in healthcare and and just in general as a system, you know, I think there are a lot of spaces this is

beginning to happen.

>> You know, you you mentioned earlier earlier on that early on you you really developed a passion for leadership.

What's something that you know about leadership now that you wish you'd have known earlier in your career?

>> You know, when I took the when I when I accepted the job at Logitech, I went to see a friend of mine who was a uh he had been an entrepreneur for about 50 years and he had sold his company. It was

about sales company. And so I went to him to ask him what he thought about taking the job at at Logitech. And he

said he said, "I don't know." I met him for breakfast and he said, "I don't know if I'd do that. You know, looks like a very difficult thing to turn around to me." He goes, "But I don't know anything

me." He goes, "But I don't know anything about tech." And I said, ' Okay, well,

about tech." And I said, ' Okay, well, thanks. You I've already accepted the

thanks. You I've already accepted the job, so it's probably wrong time to ask him. And um and then as I got up to

him. And um and then as I got up to leave, um he he pointed at me and he said, "Oh, and one more thing, Brack." I

said, "Yeah." I was like 10 ft from the table. He said, "You wash the windows,

table. He said, "You wash the windows, you clean the floors." And so I said, "Ah, thank you." You know, I kind of smiled and I walked back and I was like, "Wonder why he said that." And it took me to probably till I got to the bottom

of the stairs to start to really uh think about that. And the longer I lived with it, the more I thought, you know, it's about ownership. You know, it's an entrepreneur giving me that advice that,

you know, really own it. I literally

when I walked into Logitech that first day, I would I would I I decided I'm going to feel ownership for everything.

I'm going to pick stuff off off the floor. I'll clean a window if it's not

floor. I'll clean a window if it's not clean, literally. and I'll feel

clean, literally. and I'll feel ownership for everything because I want to feel like this is my company just like I want everybody in this company to feel like this is V VF is their company.

So I wish I'd u internalize that earlier in my career because I think it's such a healthy way to think it makes you feel better about it and it also has a bigger impact on everybody else. Yeah, that's a

great story and and you know looking back you know what's one thing you you have come to believe about leadership maybe that some CEOs might disagree with or is there anything like that?

>> Look I I I won't try to suggest that this is counter to what other CEOs might believe but there there is a there is a chain of command in large companies and and it's important because it's the way

information gets passed but I don't really like to even think about it. I

just like to think everybody in the company is my partner. Everybody's got a job to do, whether it's the person who works at the front desk when you walk in the store or me. And we we all have work

to do. And you can you can have a

to do. And you can you can have a dramatic impact on the company from whatever chair you're in if you're if you want to if you're smart and you really care about what the company's

doing. And I I so believe that. So I

doing. And I I so believe that. So I

like having conversations with everybody at all levels of the company. I feel

much more in touch that way. I had an old boss who who was a smoker and he used to say, "I know whether we're having a good quarter or not because I go into the smoking area and out there if the if the people in a in a in

accounts receivable are nervous because the accounts receivable are getting too high. I know it's because they're

high. I know it's because they're selling so much and and I never forgot that. I thought, you know, this it's so

that. I thought, you know, this it's so true. You know, it's amazing how much

true. You know, it's amazing how much you pick up if you talk to people at all levels of the company, not just your direct reports or their direct reports."

So, I really try to do that. [laughter]

>> That's great. Now, this is an odd question and so accept it for that. Okay. I've watched a few of your interviews. Okay. I watched

one interview. You're dressed in all white. Okay. I mean, I'm looking at you

white. Okay. I mean, I'm looking at you here. You've got this, you know, this

here. You've got this, you know, this great sweater on, you know, and obviously you are into design. How much

do you think about what you wear and how you present yourself physically as it relates to driving what you want to drive inside the company?

>> You know, this is uh I'm I'm probably more utilitarian.

Yeah. I always think, okay, here's here's how I think about let's talk about art for a minute because it's related to design, right? I I have this uh view that everybody is an artist and

you really are an artist whether you think about it or not. You're you're

which means you're a designer whether you think about it or not. And your and your primary art is your life. It's all

of your life. It's every day of your life, every moment of your life. Now,

most of the time in your life, you make a utilitarian decisions. So, you

wouldn't think of your life as art. So,

for example, if you're at if you're at a if you're at a restaurant tonight and you're going to the bathroom, you could just walk across the room to the bathroom like most people do. Now you

could if you wanted to say no I'm actually gonna express something you could dance across the room. You could

waltz across the room or you could do dance hiphop across that room. There are

a lot of you could take all your clothes off and do there are people who do that performance art. So there's a lot of

performance art. So there's a lot of things you could do to make that that striding across that room an expression of who you are. And so and yet most people simply walk across the room and

it's utilitarian. When it comes to what

it's utilitarian. When it comes to what I wear to work every day I am surprisingly utilitarian. Um, probably

surprisingly utilitarian. Um, probably because I've just made a choice that's not where my art will be or where my design uh I'll put my design thinking to

work. Uh, once in a while I do something

work. Uh, once in a while I do something special, but usually not. [laughter]

>> I love it. You know, this has been so much fun and I want to have some more with this lightning round of questions that I always do. Are you ready for them?

>> I'm ready.

>> The three words that best describe you.

>> Basketball, family, design.

>> If you could be one person for a day besides yourself, who would it be? My

kids.

>> Your biggest pet peeve?

>> Injustice.

>> What city has had the greatest impact on you?

>> Owensboro, Kentucky. [laughter]

>> You've led You've led both tech and fashion brands. Which industry has

fashion brands. Which industry has tougher critics?

>> I would say fashion.

>> What's something you've been curious about lately that has nothing to do with work?

>> Gravity.

>> What's the one thing you do just for you?

>> Basketball.

>> Besides your family, what's your most prized possession? You know, I'm really

prized possession? You know, I'm really not into possessions. So, I would say you use family though, so I would say my friends.

>> If I turned on the radio in your car, what would I hear?

>> NPR.

>> What's something about you few people would know?

>> That I was exceptionally shy when I was younger.

>> What's one of your daily rituals, something that you'd never miss?

>> Working out.

>> We're out of the lightning round now.

Just a couple more questions. We'll wrap

this up. Okay. You mentioned your family as your prized possession. you know, how what have you learned about leading at home?

>> Look, I I think um what one of the things I love about about families is that, you know, anybody who's listening has young families might not realize this, but your family just becomes uh

deeper and richer as you get older and they never stop needing you and you never stop needing them. And so, the cool thing is my kids are adults now and I've got a granddaughter and my ex-wife

and I are very close. My all three of my kids and I are very close. My son-in-law

and I are very close. You know, we're all It's just a super good thing. And,

you know, it becomes more and more important to me with time, not less and less. You know, I think everything goes

less. You know, I think everything goes in cycles, but this one just seems to never stop getting more important to me.

>> What do you see as your unfinished business, Brack? And both for VF and you

business, Brack? And both for VF and you personally, >> well, for VF, I want to turn this into a strong uh sustainable long-term high growth engine. And I wanted, you know, I

growth engine. And I wanted, you know, I wanted to humbly be the best company in this industry. And I think it can be.

this industry. And I think it can be.

Um, for me as a person, I'll never be finished. You know, I'll never stop

finished. You know, I'll never stop working. I won't get to work at VF

working. I won't get to work at VF forever, but I but I'll never stop working. I'll never stop uh trying to

working. I'll never stop uh trying to learn new things. I'm always I pick a new topic every five years to go deep in and and I really read everything I possibly can on it. So, I'll never stop

trying to learn and grow. You know, it's just it's just so inherent to what I'm all about. And I'll never stop trying to

all about. And I'll never stop trying to be that good point guard who did have the handles. [laughter]

the handles. [laughter] >> What's that what's that topic you're topic you're going deep on now?

>> Uh it's it's been for the last few years I've been going deep on uh quantum mechanics and gravity and the relationship between the two and how difficult that is to figure out >> and why.

>> Uh it's a puzzle, you know. I like

puzzles and there's a lot of math in it and I just think it's fascinating. The

one before that was art. I really got into art history and then into what makes art and then I started going down that path. So I did art for a while. I

that path. So I did art for a while. I

did World War II for a while. So I just picked these topics kind of just I'm interested in everything. So I it'd be easy for me to pick another topic, but I try to stay with it long enough to where I get some mastery.

>> That's great. Last question. What's one

piece of advice you'd give to anyone who wants to be a better leader?

>> Just focus on growing everything around you. not including yourself, but if

you. not including yourself, but if you're focused on growing everything, making everything better, everything, every person, every process, every experience, if you're just focused all

the time on trying to make everything better and growing everything, uh you'll you'll deacto be a good leader, you'll you'll have to listen more. You'll have

to have more empathy. You'll have to u work harder. You'll because you'll want

work harder. You'll because you'll want to because you it's so fulfilling when you make things better, when you feel like things are growing. You know,

growth is growth is the big the most important thing, you know, in life. I

mean, if you think about there's there's growth and there's death. And you're

either growing or you're on your way to death. And so, you might as well choose

death. And so, you might as well choose growth. And I think that as a leader,

growth. And I think that as a leader, it's amazing how how inspiring and uh engaging growth is.

>> You know, Bracken, uh, I had heard a lot about you before we had this conversation, and I knew you were a great leader. I knew you came at the

great leader. I knew you came at the world in in a fresh way and I can't tell you how impressed I am with our conversation and having the opportunity to meet you. It's been a real treat.

Thank you so much for being on this show.

>> Thank you, David. And and we got to get the other David. David Cody.

>> All right.

>> At least on a call together.

>> Yeah. And you guys were both a GE.

>> Oh, yeah. I worked for Dave. I learned a ton from Dave.

>> I always wondered I'll ask you this one question. I'll let you go. You know the

question. I'll let you go. You know the GE washing machine. I I recommend to him that you come up with a new washing machine and you call it the sock saver because it seems like every washing

machine you lose your socks. And I think if you could solve that problem, wouldn't wouldn't that be a home run?

>> Well, I think it could have been, David, and I tried that because I ran the washing machine business at GE, but I finally abandoned it and I went to a company that makes socks because I figure if they're losing all those

socks, we'll sell a lot more. [laughter]

>> See, you're a smart guy.

David, what an interview.

>> Yeah. Oh, fantastic. Uh, you know, what's your definition of of design after hearing that interview? Cool.

>> Well, it's certainly changed after hearing it. Now, I think of design as

hearing it. Now, I think of design as anything that revolves around how a consumer engages with your product. Not

just the way it looks, but how they engage with your people, what it feels like to walk into your retail store, what it feels like to be on the phone with someone in customer support. I

mean, everything. Design touches

everything.

>> Yeah. But, you know, how does somebody in accounting think about their job as design?

>> Okay. Now, you're interviewing me, D.

>> Yeah. Well, I want to see if you I I want to see if you got the any any info out of that podcast. One takeaway that I am pulling from this episode is that you

know design like I just said it it really is the entire experience that anybody has engaging with you or your brand. So, like for the accountant,

brand. So, like for the accountant, David, if they can make something more seamless for the person on the other end of what they're delivering, someone asking for a report or auditing their

books, if they can make that experience more seamless, then that is how they can apply great design to their process.

>> Absolutely. I love that answer. You're

right. You know, and I always said at at uh at Yum Brads, if you do your piece of Yum right, it all adds up to a great customer experience. So, like if you can

customer experience. So, like if you can be more productive in supply chain, you save money. We were able to give the

save money. We were able to give the customer more and you do that by having the right design, right process and discipline to get it done. You know,

that's how you can be successful. And I

I just love, you know, how we talked about how everybody can participate in that process of that total customer experience.

>> Totally. You know, one other thing I really loved that Bracken talked about, obviously he's very focused on design.

Um, but I love the way he thinks about brands. Obviously, VF is the parent

brands. Obviously, VF is the parent company of several iconic brands. And

one thing that really stood out with me was when he said, you know, in consumer brands, you don't really own the brand.

The customer owns the brand and you really just contribute to it. David,

unpack that for me a little bit and for the listeners, what does that really look like?

>> Well, you know, it's it's the customer owns the brand. The customers can really define what the brand is based what you do. So, you know, the the the customer

do. So, you know, the the the customer is going to position you the way how you really are. If you really have a lot of

really are. If you really have a lot of substance and you really have have something that makes people feel cool when they wear it or, you know, makes

people feel feel great when they they drive it, you know, then, you know, man, you know, that that only comes from the customer telling you how they feel about

you. So the customer really owns owns

you. So the customer really owns owns the whole process. I love in the episode when he talks about Timberland's the shoes, he says, you know, hiphop really made Timberland Timberland. They didn't

do that. So, I just love the fact that they are continuing to let the hip-hop culture define what Tims really are.

>> I think one of the great things in in marketing and I guess we can call it design now is that when when that customer takes over, you know, you don't really have to do much but just watch

the momentum that takes goes forward.

Now, it's it's hard to get that to begin with, and it only comes from everybody doing the job they need to do it. But

once it starts to roll, I'm telling you, it just grows and it grows and it's grows. You know, we struggled at Taco

grows. You know, we struggled at Taco Bell for for years, but man, you know, once we figured out that this was an irreverent brand and that, you know, we needed to have a lot more fun and we

need to have products that uh you know, really solved the the customers uh issues that the momentum has just piled on and piled on and piled on and that

brand is just a rocket ship and just continues to have leading same store sales growth. So, you know, it's it only

sales growth. So, you know, it's it only comes though from from a real understanding of of the customer and then the customer loving you and talking about you. That's what happened in

about you. That's what happened in Timberland. It's like, hey, the customer

Timberland. It's like, hey, the customer the word of mouth is what's driving it.

When you got people talking to people about how much they love your brand and you give them so much value with not that much money and you know, boy, their products are really cool and man, I

can't believe how good the food is even though it doesn't cost that much. I'm

telling you, that's when you really really have a great great thing happening.

>> I'd love to give the people listening, David, just a real practical way that they can let their consumers define their brand.

So, what's one thing you would say to folks if if they really don't have a grasp on on what their brand is or what consumers say it is, what would you tell them to do?

>> Understand how the customer is defining your brand, you know, understand it, you know, understand reality. see the world the way how it really is, not the way

you want it to be. And then start working with the customers. By that, I mean listening to the customer, hearing what they have to say, and then start responding to what they have to say. And

then sooner or later, they're going to feel the empathy you have for them, and that's going to drive performance.

>> Another thing that is very clear after listening to this interview with Bracken is that he's really is a master at turning brands around. on him. He did it with Old Spice, which I think is so iconic. Uh he did it at Logitech. And

iconic. Uh he did it at Logitech. And

you know, with turnaround comes change management. So for people listening who

management. So for people listening who might be in a place where their company's changing a lot or they might be in the midst of a turnaround, how do you as a leader navigate the the fatigue

that might come with a bunch of changes?

>> Oh, I I think you know it's that old burning platform story. You know, you you're you're on the ship. Okay. it's

burning down and the only way you're going to survive is you're going to have to jump into the water and you got to create a burning platform. And so I I

think the way you do that is you you you paint the reality of what your customers are telling you. You paint the reality of the of what your financial situation's telling you. You paint the

reality of how your employees are thinking about you. But it all comes down to defining reality. And you got to create in a turnaround situation, you

got to create a burning platform.

>> It reminds me, I feel like I always think about your interview with Alan Mulali, but he, you know, when he first got to Ford, they're about to post a $17

billion loss and he went into one of their meetings with his leaders and no one really talked about anything that was going wrong. So he made it a point

to celebrate when leaders came to meetings reporting on things that were going wrong or things that needed fixing because they had gotten to that point because no one had defined reality.

Therefore, no one was operating within it.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. And and he knew the only way the only way he's going to turn that business around was to get people to understand the reality. Hey, we just lost 17 billion dollars. How can

everybody be in here? you know,

presenting their project and telling me it's a green. How can we have 100% greens when we just lost 17 billion dollars? What kind of fool do you think

dollars? What kind of fool do you think I am? I wasn't born yesterday. I'm from

I am? I wasn't born yesterday. I'm from

Kansas. I'm a J-Hawk fan. I mean, that's Alan Mali. I mean, he's a common sense

Alan Mali. I mean, he's a common sense guy and he just told it like it is, but he he constantly got people to to understand what the reality was and then more importantly do something about it.

David, one more question here to wrap up our debrief and this will really speak to like the CEO type of leader who might be listening and the episode with Bracken. He talks about the importance

Bracken. He talks about the importance of recognition of course and how no one ever recognizes people enough so he tries to incorporate it into his everyday. He says that you know when

everyday. He says that you know when really great things happen you recognize the folks that do it but when really bad things happen it's the job of the CEO to to take responsibility for it even if

it's not your fault. So, I'm curious from your perspective as a CEO, how do you get comfortable with being the person who always takes credit for the failure?

>> Because it's your show. You're the

leader. And if it's happening on your dime, there's something you could have done differently to make sure it wouldn't have happened. That's that's

the mindset you have to have. And it's

climbing all the way up that accountability ladder. You you don't

accountability ladder. You you don't blame others. When you're at the bottom

blame others. When you're at the bottom of the accountability ladder, you blame others and and and come up with excuses.

When you're at the top, you get on with it. You accept the accept the the the

it. You accept the accept the the the the challenge and you take take accountability for it and say, "Now we got to move on." But, you know, I think

that's so important. And once people know that you own the joint, you act like you own the joint. I don't care whether you're a frontline employee or you're the CEO. If you act like you own

the joint, that means you take accountability for anything that happens on your dime.

>> I love it. I love it. Well, Bracken

certainly has done that and it's a big reason why he's been so successful throughout his career and, you know, he's only been at VF for a couple years, two years, I think. But, um, with him at

the helm, I have no doubt that they're just going to continue to rise. And it's

getting colder outside, which means it's time to put on my North Face puffer jacket, which I just feel like has been such a staple in the closets of people everywhere for years.

>> Well, that that puffer jacket, you know, we talked to about that. People need to, you know, I hope they they picked up the insight there, too, is that, you know, that's what people want to wear. They

found out how to do it in the North Face brand, and, you know, it's it fits within their character because of the way how they designed it. And by the way, speaking of design, I've interviewed a lot of leaders. This guy,

he's one of the coolest dressers I've seen on on on video and he says he doesn't think about it, but that's just cuz he's naturally cool. I like the guy a lot. He's super cool.

a lot. He's super cool.

>> I do too. I do too. I do too. Well,

David, that does it for our episode of How Leaders Lead for today. Thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you next week.

>> [music]