How Ripple Overdrive Evaluates Early Game Unit Strength

Hey guys, I'm learning TFT and I'm sharing my learnings with you so that you can learn and I can learn better as well. I'm excited to share with you this

well. I'm excited to share with you this video that was presented on the TFT coaching plus program by ASA. He invited

Ripple Overdrive who is a set 16 tier one player um sixtime regionals player regularly 1500 to600 LP and in this

presentation that Ripple put together he's going to talk about evaluating early game unit strength which I was actually very presently pleasantly surprised by what I was able to get out

of this video specifically early on in a set when there's a lot of missing stats. Sample

size is low. We're not exactly sure what's strong. Ripple puts together a

what's strong. Ripple puts together a very clear framework on how you can approach figuring out situations where you're trying to decide between should I

play this one three cost or this two star one cost and how you go about making trade-offs in putting together your strongest board in the early game.

So with that said, I am going to uh play this video for you. I also take notes on the side and I'll provide a link in the description below to my notes for uh

Ripple's presentation. So with that

Ripple's presentation. So with that said, I hope you enjoy this video with Ripple. The topic today is evaluating

Ripple. The topic today is evaluating early game unit strength or just evaluating unit strength in general. um

give some context. Most games you don't roll until at least level six.

This in particular um I think design-wise they are encouraging you to play for tempo level eight or level 9.

Um, so you know, on the way there, you really only have your natural shops to work with and um, you're pretty much challenged most

rounds to try to make your strongest board while also making econ with whatever you get. Um, most games you'll get some two or three costs early and you have to decide to hold, buy, or sell

them. Um, for, you know, you might have

them. Um, for, you know, you might have to sell them for one cost pairs to make two stars.

um or just to make econ um early game in TFT. I think like analyzing this part of

TFT. I think like analyzing this part of the game um is a lot easier than later parts of the game because early in TFT, you know, there's not that many things you can do. There's only so many shops

that you get and some units you can't even buy because, you know, they don't even like match or traits or you don't even have pairs for them. So, um, you know, it's easy to see like how many

options there are to analyze and but because there's only there's like not that many, I think every action you take becomes kind of more impactful. Like

sometimes you might sell a unit that you realize you kind of needed like a turn or two later. um you know holding a unit or not pretty much decides if you can go down like certain lines because um of

the trades that you can play with that unit and you know making the correct like strongest board will pretty much determine if you get to win streak or

not. Um,

not. Um, and yeah, I think being able to evaluate how strong every unit is on your board is a valuable skill that you can't

really learn from stats. Most stat sites are going to show you what endgame boards are strong. Um, you know, what comps to aim towards getting to, but it doesn't really tell you how to get there. Part of the way you get a large

there. Part of the way you get a large part of the way you get there, you know, is like by having enough HP and gold by the time you actually need to do your roll down, which you have to do by

pretty much managing your natural shops and whatever you get out of orbs from neutrals.

Um, I think the goal from being able to like evaluate all these unit strengths is that you can always find your strongest board, especially when the game gives you lots of options

to choose from. There's some games where, you know, you get us most games usually like every two costs or two, three costs, but some games like especially on like scuttle or something, you might just get like a ton of units

and you might get really lost or maybe you're playing cluttered mine or something. Um, and like the more options

something. Um, and like the more options you have, the harder it gets, but you really want to be able to try and make your strongest board. If you can do that, you can better control your streaks and HP. Um, because, you know,

this pretty much goes into uh board strength valuation, right?

Every round, you should in general be scouting your pool to see how strong you are compared to them so you know if you win or not. If you have options like leveling or slamming items, um the

better you're aware of how strong your units are versus like other boards will help inform if you really need to level or not or if you can like hold a slam.

Um also, if you, you know, learn more about the inner workings of a unit and how to like maximize their strength through things like positioning, then you get to win these fights that are pretty much designed by positioning and

not just by like who's stronger. Um, and

then, uh, you know, once you get a solid understanding of how like these units work, what makes them strong, how strong they are, um, it'll make it easier for you to navigate like different patches because, you know, every patch they're

going to change some units and then sometimes, you know, like people automatically think like, oh, just cuz they nerfed it, like maybe the unit's like gutted and you just shouldn't play them anymore. But, or maybe if they

them anymore. But, or maybe if they buffed it a little, you know, the difference between them being OP or just like playable. Um, I think knowing how

like playable. Um, I think knowing how strong the unit is will help will like make patches less jarring because um you you have a better intuitive understanding of like how much stronger

the unit really got. Maybe by its design it'll always be strong, you know. Um

yeah, and then yeah, I think in general, um you know, this is a lot of stuff to think about, but just like getting better at any of these things and incrementally will help you play your game out better. And it's the difference

between getting to level six, seven, and eight with like 10 more HP or 10 more gold. Um which is like, you know, is

gold. Um which is like, you know, is really impactful. It could be like a

really impactful. It could be like a whole placement or even more. So yeah, I think there are lots of games where you get to 42 or something and you feel

like you don't have enough gold to roll, but you don't have enough HP to like wait until four or five. And a large part of that um could have been because you weren't playing a strong enough

board early with what you had to uh be in a better spot, I guess.

And uh so here are some questions that you kind of want to be able to answer.

um by learning more about units. Uh one

of the biggest ones probably is like what are the best three cost to hold early um you know every almost every game you'll probably get three costs or two costs and you probably have to choose to sell them to hold one cost or

to hold them and some of them you know are really strong in stage two but some of them actually like holding them will probably make your stage two really weak uh and it was probably better off for

you to hold one cost. Um or a lot of times you're in situations where you have like multiple different carries of similar cost like say a one star three cost and a two star one cost. They're

both worth the same gold. Which one

should you itemize? Um

itemizing the right one can make the difference between you know winning or losing. So it's important to know um

losing. So it's important to know um based on an opener. You know

part of the reason you decide where to hold a unit or not is that it plays into certain lines. So, um certain units have

certain lines. So, um certain units have better direction than other units and that will have to do with their traits as well as how they scale later. Um

knowing your board is strong enough to win streak that that can also determine your line. I think some lines are better

your line. I think some lines are better from high tempo spots because you need more golden HP. Maybe they they aren't like win out lines, but like you know you you can save HP throughout most of

the game, but that starts with how strong you are on 21. Also like some augments are better on two one depending on how strong your board is. Um, I think in general, like, you know, when your

board is weak, you prefer econ augments so you can spike later. When your board is strong, you prefer things like items or combat. Um, because then you can take

or combat. Um, because then you can take advantage of, you know, winning in stage two. But that depends if you know how

two. But that depends if you know how strong your units are, right? It's not

it's not always just like, oh, do I have enough upgrades? Sometimes it could be

enough upgrades? Sometimes it could be like a one star, three cost is actually a pretty strong unit that can actually reccon. Um, and then what's my strong

reccon. Um, and then what's my strong next strongest unit? I think a lot of times uh level four is usually like kind of simple where it's like oh I'll play like

two tank trait two damage trait. Um

level five might be a little more confusing sometimes to find out like what's the best next unit to add. Um

this can also happen at level three or level four. But just an example like

level four. But just an example like when when once you have your like two backline two front lines like what do I put in on the five and what do I put in on six? Um, usually it might be like a

on six? Um, usually it might be like a three cost or something, but maybe maybe it's actually a trait unit, you know.

Um, overall we're just trying to make the strongest board possible with the shops and units that we've received at like any point, you know. So like 25,

we've gotten like five shops and units out of the orbs. 3-1, we've gotten like eight shops and units out of the orbs and kugs. Um, and we need to be making

and kugs. Um, and we need to be making econ this whole time, right? So, we need to be balancing like trying to make a strong board versus, you know, holding

holding units or selling ones that aren't going to be useful for us.

Okay. Um,

yeah, that was a lot of text I'm talking. So, here's here's how I go

talking. So, here's here's how I go about it. Uh, points here that I talk

about it. Uh, points here that I talk about, you can use to evaluate honestly units at any cost anywhere in the game.

Um, I'll probably focus more on lower cost units just because earlier in the game there's like less things going on.

Um, later in the game you get more traits, more interactions. Um, things

like AoE will like of course be better.

Um, you also have way more items to scale off of. So, um,

it's a lot harder to just evaluate uh, a single unit, right?

So, first thing I always start off um every set is just reading all your units. Um how strong are they on paper?

units. Um how strong are they on paper?

You read their ability, their traits. Um

even even like base stats can be important, but uh I think most like carries now or most units nowadays have pretty standardized base stats amongst like tanks, melee carries, range carries

and stuff. So for tanks, I mostly worry

and stuff. So for tanks, I mostly worry about like, you know, what their ability does. Usually it gives them more

does. Usually it gives them more effective HP through healing versus shielding. I um I think this is an

shielding. I um I think this is an important point because like you know healing is countered usually by like some anti-heal. Also healing is healing and

anti-heal. Also healing is healing and healing are both stats that can be used like efficiently or inefficiently. Like

you don't want a tank that heals to heal when they're at full HP, right? Um or if they heal like sometimes they heal too much and and just like you get like over

overhealing, right? um versus like a

overhealing, right? um versus like a unit that shields. Um depending on how much they shield, you want to make sure that you know they're getting hit and like using all that shield before the

the shield expires. Um carries, I think you most just look at their their DPS, um how their damage is dealt, and we'll talk about later. Um what kind of items they can use. Some units are more

flexible items than others. Some units

like need certain items to function properly. And um also like their

properly. And um also like their survivability. This mostly comes for

survivability. This mostly comes for like melee carries. Some melee carries need to be positioned in certain ways to like maximize their value, but depending on positioning, like they might get

targeted sooner because you can't like protect them with your tanks. Um,

so that's mostly like just the unit itself and their ability. They also have their traits of course. Um, I think tank traits historically have been like pretty the same, but they worked. So

bruiser has usually been like a pretty strong early game trait because it gives your whole team flat HP. Um well let's compare to warden which um first of all

is just a selfish trait. It only helps the wardens and it gives percent HP um shield and usually things that have like percent scaling um will scale

better with like items and star levels and stuff. So, um, generally I think

and stuff. So, um, generally I think early game like you know flat stats um are slightly stronger than things with percent scaling unless you do have like

you know the items to support it, right?

But like I think usually if you have no tank items then maybe probably like a two bruiser front line will probably give you more more um takiness than like a two warden in front line if like say

the star levels and costs were like this similar. Um, defender gives you flat

similar. Um, defender gives you flat resist, but also the defenders like themselves get more resist. Resists do

like multiply themselves or scale better effectively with more HP and stuff. So,

it's kind of somewhere in between. Um,

for carry traits, there are there are traits like Archinist and Invoker that give, you know, teamwide stuff. Um,

so, you know, depending on if you have like other units that scale well of AP, then Archinist might be better. um

versus like Invoker, it kind of depends on like how much your units care about casting more than once in the fight, I would say. Um and say like quick striker

would say. Um and say like quick striker gives team white attack speed while gunslinger is also just like a selfish trait similar to warden. So I think these are all things that you can consider because of how your team

composition is made up early, especially like five or level five or six. Um and

even like later in the game, right? Like

team wide traits are usually um pretty nice later in the game also. And then uh utility. So like you not everyone just

utility. So like you not everyone just does damage or tanks damage. Some people

do things like CC or healing or yeah CC is like stunning or chilling.

Also like some units have traits that offer utility that are pretty strong. So

yeah, I think all this is stuff you think about when bringing about the unit on paper. Um I won't be talking about

on paper. Um I won't be talking about units this set, but this I'll just show like historically like two of my favorite units that I played as like kind of threats. like I play on any

board. Um I think Gragas from like this

board. Um I think Gragas from like this is Gragas from set 10 who's a two cost.

Uh and his ability was like I mean he he only needs 40 mana and then he heals 500. So, I would just put Gragas off on

500. So, I would just put Gragas off on the side, let him get hit first because he's always going to cast because it only costs 40 mana and then he pretty much, you know, heal 500 and be worth

like 1,300 HP, which I thought was really good for like a unit, even if I played him with like no traits. Um, on

the carry side, like Yasuo, I mean, was a mentor, edge lord. You rarely ever play Edgelord early cuz cuz those units were like were two cost. And then um I mentor was a good team trait, but I

think he also a read his ability. It

just says hit three units for um 150 and he cast a lot because he's like a fighter with low mana and um I think it's just just his DPS was like

potential was really high and also he had high like uh base armor MR and HP.

So like like I think he'd be better sometimes than playing say like your two trait for your carry just because him by himself does like 2,000 damage fight and in the early game like 2,000 damage

makes up like like a third of the enemy enemies like board HP. Um

so uh an example for this set would be let's let's talk about Blitzcrank and Loris. Um, we'll probably have a

Loris. Um, we'll probably have a situation where we have two star one costs like Blitzcrank or a one star three cost like Loris.

So, what what I would do is u just hover their abilities, see how much they shield. Also look at their HP. I think a

shield. Also look at their HP. I think a two star one cost generally has like 300 maybe 200 more HP than like a one star three cost. Um,

three cost. Um, so you can take that into account and then how their tank traits work. Both of

them have selfish tank traits and you can assume you only have like the two the two trait for them or maybe even the zero trait for them. Um but just looking at the numbers like Blisscrank at two

star will shield for 400 and Loris at one star will shield for 700. I guess

you can say the difference is made up by like probably the HP difference. Um so

then like how do we break the tie? Well,

I think Loris um will offer also Pilttover which is a really strong utility trait at two. So if you can hold him, like if it doesn't really matter if

you're trying to play ZH that much, then like I probably prefer Loris because he has pretty similar tankiness of Lis Crank. You can two start him later and

Crank. You can two start him later and he has a pretty good utility trait. Um,

but of course it's like depending on what other units you have. But also I think another thing to think point out is that like just like reading Loris's ability, he's kind of like the Gragas

that I showed earlier where you know whether or not you have Warden active like it doesn't really affect that he's going to cast and shield for 700 um on

your board which I think just makes him like a really strong unit on his own.

Um here's another example. So say let's compare two three cost um Leona versus Loris. Uh Leona is a target unit so she

Loris. Uh Leona is a target unit so she already has like slightly higher base stats than Loris. Um, and I'll say like, oh, it's pretty obvious that Leona is

probably designed to be the strongest three cost early, but I think probably when you approach stage three or you're in stage three, maybe early stage four,

um, you might prefer Loris just because of how like Leon's ability works. So,

she reduces instances of damage by 15, 40 or 40 depending on your level. Um,

this is strong in the early game because most damage is dealt in small amounts because like units just aren't that strong yet. They a lot of damage is auto

strong yet. They a lot of damage is auto attack damage. Um, depending on what

attack damage. Um, depending on what kind of spells there are. I mean, some belt she would do poorly versus burst spells, but better versus spells that deal in small ticks. though it does depend on what your opponents are

playing, but usually later in the game once carries get more itemized um they will be hitting in like larger amounts which would make Leona's passive you

know weaker as the game goes on. Um, so

I think like towards the, you know, later into the mid game, um, Loris might actually become better just because like he has pretty much a

reliable like he shields a large amount of HP. Um, and versus Leona like really

of HP. Um, and versus Leona like really will get worse depending on how strong people's carries are. Um,

and then like utility wise, I guess Loris, you know, depends if you're playing Ber or not. you he'll give you utility. He also that's also stun you

utility. He also that's also stun you play if you want some burn. Um but I think just looking at their tankiness uh that's how I would evaluate it. Okay. Um

I'm going to pause. Is there any questions you have?

>> Okay, sounds good.

>> So if you have like Loris and Leona stage one, you can only hold one of them. Which one would you hold?

them. Which one would you hold?

>> Which one would I hold? Um, it's a great question. Honestly, I might consider

question. Honestly, I might consider even playing both. I mean, I talk about how how Loris can be played by herself.

And I mean, Leon obviously wants to be played by like can be played by herself, but I think if you had both of them, I guess it depends what other I think it depends on what other units you have.

You say you probably play two carry units. Um, then you play Leona plus

units. Um, then you play Leona plus something or Loris plus a warden. Um, if

you had built over, you probably want to play Loris. I mean, I think I I'd

play Loris. I mean, I think I I'd [laughter] be I want to try find a way to play both. Also, like finding another warden, I guess there's no one cause

wardens, but um if I had to sell one, then I I would think that Leona is best in stage two.

But if I looked around and I thought like even with Leona that I'd lose, I would think that Loris probably has better scaling later into the game and he's still like pretty good. So, I I

would keep Loris if I felt weaker than uh a good amount of people in the lobby.

That makes sense.

>> With Loris's large shield, would you consider solo frontlining him to make sure it's not wasted?

>> Yes. Yes. I think um yeah, units with shields, I think you definitely want to like try to get them targeted um as much as possible without them dying before they cast their

shield. So, Loris has like needs 70

shield. So, Loris has like needs 70 mana, so I guess there's a chance he might die before he gets his shield. Um,

but if he doesn't, then yeah, I would I'll try to have him take as much aggro as possible. Also to like use the full

as possible. Also to like use the full shield duration. Um, he has to deplete

shield duration. Um, he has to deplete it all in 4 seconds. So, um, if you can get that, I think that'd be the best.

Uh, I think like something I've liked to do uh, positioning wise, let me just like

open up a full port. If you were to put like um I just put two carries on each side.

Like something like this. Uh

sorry, Leona and Loris. Um I just give them to Leonas. Um

Leonas. Um like I think you know, like I said, you with or without items, Loris will always shield 700. Um, Leona probably scales

shield 700. Um, Leona probably scales better with items because it's like um she has lot damage reduction and then like the more the resistances she has she'll scale better. So you might want

to like be putting your items on Leona but like to get still full value off the Loris like you don't want him to to cast and then he'sing for 700 but Leona is

like taking all the aar, right? So like

you could do something like this which feels a little awkward or like sometimes I might do something like this where like you know they might be they split aggro but yeah I'm I'm sure that like Loris will like get a good amount off

his shield or something or if like if I know Loris will live like to cast and his full duration then like make him you know you make him like take first um because really you just want the thanks

to like get the full value out of their abilities. Leona like doesn't have a

abilities. Leona like doesn't have a shield or heal. So, she will always reduce whatever damage she's getting hit by at any point in the fight, but Loris, you know, will only shield for 4 seconds

of the fight. So, yeah, I I do think like like you there's um some value in getting like Loris whether or not you

use your main tank or not um hit first or focused.

Loris has an interesting last line where it says it forces nearby units to target him, but it's not really that clear like what nearby units means.

>> Yeah, I I think it's a taunt, but you don't know the range of the taunt.

>> Yeah, I guess we'll know eventually.

>> He like if he is here, he gets taunted.

>> I think a pass sets is generally meant to hex's when they've referred to that, but of course like they could do it differently. It's just like a past sets.

differently. It's just like a past sets.

>> Um yeah, that makes sense. I think also like um even if he does like taunt, I mean I guess maybe it's not as much of a problem with him. So like maybe you can

have him off tank, but I still think you want to cast during like a you know like I think casting later in the fight is probably worse than casting earlier in

the fight. Um, just cuz you want to like

the fight. Um, just cuz you want to like you you want like Lean to die for like almost die and then and then he casts and then like maybe she you want her to survive longer as long as possible like

your Loris, right? So I think like getting the mana generation from him taking damage is probably better than waiting until he autos enough to cast and then taunt.

But yeah, I guess for Laura specifically he um is easier to play around because of the and I didn't talk about like the there's like the stun portion. So against melee

carries you probably focus a lot harder on like uh you know making sure he starts near their their melee carry.

Uh any any other questions okay? Um

okay? Um so we read like what they do sorry what the units do just like by their numbers. Um

I I just talked a bit about positioning and like how how the units play out and I think you can do that for like every unit, right? Um, so yeah, I think

unit, right? Um, so yeah, I think another part of determining how strong a unit is and how good they are is what their design and fight pattern is. So,

do certain units need to be positioned a certain way to maximize like the value of their ability? It was mostly for AoE units. Um, and then how good are they in

units. Um, and then how good are they in like ideal versus non ideal positioning.

So, like a unit that has AoE that can hit up to two or three units. Um, you

know, I think if they are hitting always two or three units versus one, then they're probably performing above average from their counterparts. And if

they're hitting one, they're probably performing below average. But you can, but sometimes this is like not always the case. Maybe like just because of

the case. Maybe like just because of balancing, they're just really strong even if they're only setting one unit.

Um, and then another thing you ask about is like how efficient um is the unit's damage dealt to tank.

Some units deal damage in large bursts which can be wasted in overkill while other units deal damage really consistently. Um I think like I've

consistently. Um I think like I've always liked consistent damage dealers cuz yeah they don't really waste any damage is a pretty good idea. Pretty

easy to tell how strong they are and you don't really have to set them up well while units that like deal damage in large burst um you know sometimes you just see them like last hit a unit at one HP a bunch of times and that's

probably the reason you lost the fight.

This can also be applied to how they tank. Um,

tank. Um, you don't really want units to be shielding or healing uh when they're at full HP, which can happen if you don't like your aggro well or they don't have

a taunt mechanic. Um, so, you know, if you're going to play a unit on your board like over another unit because they like shield or heal a lot, you want to make sure that they're actually maximizing that. Um,

maximizing that. Um, and doing this is the difference between like when you're losing some fights. Um,

just what I talked before. So, does a unit deal damage and burst? AoE or

consistent DPS is an important point.

Um, I think, you know, units that deal consistent DPS are always easy to tell like if they're strong or not. It's

mostly like a board strength check. If

they deal in bursts or AoE, um, AoE is usually weaker early game in stage two because there's just less units. Um, in

stage three is probably better. Um, if

they deal damage and burst, that means like you're pretty much playing off spell rotations and how long the fight lasts. Um, so that might be something

lasts. Um, so that might be something that's dependent on your front line and also you have like mana items and stuff.

Um, and yeah, how how reliant is the unit on front line? Some units like do damage over time and they're only going to be good if your front line is really strong. Um,

strong. Um, yeah, I think so. A good comparison we can make is between Jyn and Jinx. Um,

you're they're both gunslingers. You'll

probably both play them on your board, but say you have a Jin two and a Jinx one and you don't know which one to itemize. Um, Jyn has a pretty basic like

itemize. Um, Jyn has a pretty basic like ability that just says do more damage on your autos for four four attacks. Um, it

is like a little bit of burst, but uh you'll probably cast like two times in a fight. Um while Jinx you need to auto 18

fight. Um while Jinx you need to auto 18 times and after that she'll do a lot more damage. Um

more damage. Um so I think clearly like Jinx is a unit that you know I wish yeah I like had like I played some games where I like all these

examples but my outplay wasn't working.

So I don't have my VOD for Jinx unfortunately, but I was playing like Jinx, Warick, Dual Carry, and Zan pretty much. And like for the first 10 seconds

much. And like for the first 10 seconds of the fight, you know, it's mostly like Warick doing all the damage and then um after like 10 seconds, Jinx finally like gets her passive on and then she pretty

much catches up to damage and Warick. Um

and you know, in the early game when you play Jinx, a lot of times your front line isn't good enough. she doesn't even get to attacking 18 times or if you don't have like attack speed items that

helps her get there. So, um but I think like in like stage three once you get like more units in your front line you can say you have attack speed items like a ragelade or a kraken or something then

Jinx actually does really well. So I

think Jyn is a unit that you know does a good amount regardless of like how many resources you invest into him while Jinx needs like a lot more investment to um pay off well. But like when you do have

like the resources like the tank the tank traits and the the items and jinx is better. But like in stage two

is better. But like in stage two probably if you're choosing the itemized vision too I probably choose Jin.

Um what's this for? Oh yeah

is so here's an example for outplayed. I

just like had looked through a few of um just time examples to this. So like here I have Kanu and GP. They're both

slayers. Kiana's two star one cost. Um

GP is three three cost. So I wasn't I wasn't actually sure like this is like one of my first games and I wasn't sure like who am I supposed to itemize. Um so

you just watch some of the fights. Uh, I

mean I like friendly chose Kiana with a sword, but I realized this guy's weak, so I didn't have a slam. But GP pretty much like will cast his barrel on three people and so he deals his damage in burst. Um, while Kiana is like more

burst. Um, while Kiana is like more consistent because she has a low lower man much lower mana cost, but um, her ability is maximized on her like being

able to wrap around and hit like two units. Um, here their damage is pretty

units. Um, here their damage is pretty equal. I guess like we just stopped the

equal. I guess like we just stopped the fight here because uh Kiana gets stuck.

But yeah, I think like here Kiana is like not really meeting her conditions to outshine GP because she's not getting like her positioning. So that's

something you had to keep in mind like um if you can position the unit well or people are like positioning against Kiana um then GP is kind of like pouring

just about as equally.

And then see in this fight, well that's not a hysterics, but we can kind of kind of compare based on like you imagine a GP item or not. But um

here I think Kiana gets like two AOE autos um and she has the item. But like

even here you can see like like this guy just splits front line a little and it's kind of hard for me to get like value [clears throat] on the ability. Well GP

kind of like always consistently hits but it just kind of depends if you like get enough mana rotations. Um

here like you end the fight with GP at like half mana but like Kiana is a pretty consistent damage dealer. So I

think you know with enough front line then K will probably outperform GP with with no mana items and um even if like you don't always get like the the AoE

hitting I it probably needs testing but I think that's that's just how I would analyze it is by looking at the replays and seeing how the units like fight with their mana and their autos each fight and then just comparing the damage

charts. Um

charts. Um and then here, let me find this other one. Um

say you know I just hit Yaso 2 of the carousel but have a giant slayer on a Jin. I'm not I want to make a Sterox.

Jin. I'm not I want to make a Sterox.

I'm not sure if I want to use both my removers to put Sterax and GS on the Yasuo. Um, you probably want to do that.

Yasuo. Um, you probably want to do that.

Like, you probably think of doing that because like, oh yeah, like stacking items is good. Um, but I just wasn't sure. Uh, and so I was just watching

sure. Uh, and so I was just watching this fight just compare like, you know, how to deal damage. He also is similar to Kiana where he has a lower mana cost.

Um, well, like J deals damage and burst.

Jin doesn't even get to cast this fight.

So, it's not the greatest example. But

then I just swap here. And then I feel like in this fight, um, a problem is my front line is like quite weak. So my

Yaso actually gets hit like very quickly and then thing is my Jin and my Ari get to get their their full spell rotations off um before the fight ends and then their damage actually becomes like quite

comparable to Yaso after and also like of course because they're backers they'll get to like live longer than Yasu. So I feel like this is an example

Yasu. So I feel like this is an example of um you know I guess you compare them with their like most of their full spell rotations and also like I you also of course like because he's in the front he

he will like fight longer you have better front line and my front line right now is like pretty bad um because it's just a onear shen and so at this

point like at this point in the game where Yaso is also like kind of my tank um I consider just having not moved like this giant slayer off my gen until like the rest of my front line gets stronger.

Like I can lower over Loris or I upgrade one of these units.

Um, does anyone have any questions on these?

I don't think they're like the greatest examples, but they're the ones I could find in my games. So,

okay, I'll continue. Um,

another thing you want to consider is just how the units scale into each stage. So, I talked earlier about how

stage. So, I talked earlier about how Loris like obviously, you know, two star one cost doesn't get stronger unless you three star them. Well, a three cost one star will get definitely get stronger

once you two start it. Um, a question you want to ask a lot is like, can you carry the unit through stage three or replace it? A lot of melee carries I

replace it? A lot of melee carries I would say like Kiana or like Brier. Um,

you know, they will excel in stage two when people have less units and you can pretty much like trade front liners and then the melee unit defeats the backline unit. But in stage three, people get

unit. But in stage three, people get more front line, they get more items, and your melee unit usually gets rigged on, too. So like Aano or Brier um

on, too. So like Aano or Brier um probably doesn't survive throughout the whole fight in stage three a lot, and then putting items on them might be worse than putting it on a backliner.

Um, also thinking about what units that you can play around the carry to like get stronger in stage three and four is

important. Um, say some units like Jinx,

important. Um, say some units like Jinx, you can only scale with playing Zan units. So, it kind of bottlenecks you

units. So, it kind of bottlenecks you into the Zan trait because you're probably just playing two gunslinger and then some front line and Zan. Um,

while like, you know, like say the most successful trait is like Targon. You

have a Felios um as an AD carry. You can

play with like anything and you can play around any other traits. Um, just being aware that, you know, committing to a unit like committing to Jinx and selling your other options means you have to

play around these other types of units is something to consider when like you you like think about what other people in the lobby are playing or if your items are even good to like carry that

unit like like Jinx for the rest of the game. Um, or play like the others on

game. Um, or play like the others on carries. Um, and then yeah, think about

carries. Um, and then yeah, think about it. You need to keep playing around it.

it. You need to keep playing around it.

Like, you know, sometimes you find yourself early, like you don't have the ideal line it up for a unit, but say I'm just playing like infinity edge Jinx for the time being because she's like she is my strongest AD carry, but Jinx probably

wants more like like Kraken or something. Um, if you don't find the

something. Um, if you don't find the bows off Kugs or you don't get the bow off the carousel and you have like a more flexible AD carry option, um, then you

can consider dropping it because um, you want to keep like more out to open later or you don't want a strong or like you're afraid of having a weak stage three because your items are worse for the unit. [snorts]

the unit. [snorts] Um, so yeah, just going back to it going back to the first example. um like Loris versus Blisscrank. Um if unless you're

versus Blisscrank. Um if unless you're like really committed to playing Zan for some reason, uh I think Loris scales better until later because one you can upgrade him two he has built over which

is like a pretty flex trait that you can play like any time in the game. Um

yeah and then I think that is a lot most of the stuff I think about when valuing units. So,

pretty much reading the units, looking about how they fight and what they need to succeed in fights, whether it be like front line positioning certain items, um the fight lasting a

certain amount of time, and then think about how it affects your future game uh in the next stages. Um so,

this is from like this is an example that I had from a game that I played.

Unfortunately, I I lost like the OBS or the the outplayer recording because outplay just like didn't want to run.

But uh yeah, so say you're level four and these are the units available to you and these are the items that you have.

Like how would you figure out what you should buy on level four? [music] Uh the same one I want to try.

Okay. Uh,

>> I would usually assume it's Kog'Ma just cuz two star one costs compared to one star three cost. I usually like use gold as a tiebreaker and then star level as a second tiebreaker.

>> I see. Okay. Um, and then you'd itemize the Gogma. And then

the Gogma. And then >> is the target dummy supposed to be items on your bench?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's just the items that you have on your bench. Sorry. I just

didn't want to put it directly on a unit.

>> Yeah. The one thing >> Oh. Oh, do you want to Do you have

>> Oh. Oh, do you want to Do you have something to say or should >> Yeah, I will say the one thing is Kog'ma is like a three trait unit and we're only using one of his, but >> Yep.

>> I'm not sure. I would generally assume two star one cost. Uh, not knowing that much about these units. Also, isn't Koga like I don't remember his ability off

the top of my head, but historically he gets made up as an auto attacker.

>> Um, like an AP auto attacker.

>> He's not in this set.

>> What is he? What is hisility?

>> I think he's like the mythic cockmon if you remember way back in like set 12.

>> He's a Yeah. No, he's a caster set and he's not like mythic where he like shoots down the artarily. He just he just shoots a blob as unit. So,

>> so he just has like a one-off nuke.

>> Yeah. I mean, we I the abilities on the next page. I was wondering what like

next page. I was wondering what like people were thinking about, you know, they're getting situations.

>> Having played Zoe yesterday, her AOE early is like really strong. So,

>> yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, hitting like multiple units, I would imagine like if you have good front line >> that you might want to just pick her just because she is so strong early.

>> And Zoe Zoe also shreds. Yeah.

>> Um, [clears throat] which that would also mean that some of Zoe's power budget is in that utility as opposed to just sheer damage. I'd be interested in comparing the um the numbers on Ari and

Zoe cuz like Ari also has one trait active like Kog'ma, but it's half of her traits, not a third. And like I just said, you know, I I can't I don't know

what her ability does, but it might theoretically be better for um like straight damage than Zoe's is. might I

don't know.

>> Yeah, those are all good points. I think

uh to their design um I I'll show the units here. Um we read the abilities. I

units here. Um we read the abilities. I

did um doing the math at the bottom. I I

think they're right. Just looking at their base damage. Um for the example, one star Ari. I do it in 90 mana because uh and the mana actually works out pretty well for these units. So like Ari

on the third cast does her pretty much full rotation. She gets like a big cast.

full rotation. She gets like a big cast.

Um Kog'ma is you know, every cast he just like reduces more. Uh, he also just cuts into the damage and then Zoe in 90 mana gets two casts. So,

>> is the Arkanist AP factored into >> or like >> No, no, this is right now. This is only the base damage on like I just multiplied like the 85 or the one or the 200, right? This hasn't considered

200, right? This hasn't considered Archinist or the fact that Zoe shreds or the fact that Kog'ma shreds. But just

looking at the base number, um like say if we just wanted to compare Ari and Kog'ma 2, uh it looks like I think in 90 mana, Ari actually does like more damage

than Kog'ma 2. Even though Kogma is always like AoEing and hitting two units. Kog'ma's ability does AoE. So

units. Kog'ma's ability does AoE. So

that that's part of his design also. And

um they both have archinist, right? But

Kogma by design, he has void and longot, which are both like things that can give him more damage. So, he actually can't like design-wise be that strong because

um if we only activate one trait, right?

So, I think between Ari and Kog'ma uh to me Ari is looking a lot better. Um

and then now we have Zoe in the equation. So, like you know, she'll give

equation. So, like you know, she'll give shred to whoever else you put on your board. So, the Ari or the Kog'ma and

board. So, the Ari or the Kog'ma and yeah, her damage is actually like very close to Ari's at base, right? Um, AR of course has archinist so you have arcans active she'll do like more but Zoe does

have like the shred utility and the chill. Um,

chill. Um, so I think like laying out like this when you can just read them and also do the math on their abilities u paints a lot clearer picture.

And so I think I would definitely want to itemize Ari or Zoe here. Um, I think I might actually like skip out on playing uh also from just from like

playing out fights. Um,

like I play out the fight and you know Kog'Ma is not always hitting multiple units and so without that his damage is like not that good. And also he does do like flat shred um which can be kind of

useful but like units don't have that much MR anyway early in the game and Zoe just has like a big shred that you don't even need to cast like it will on the first cast. So, I think like with this

first cast. So, I think like with this knowledge, um, oh, also like, sorry, another thing to note is that Zoe is like what I consider like a burst caster. She if you play her in the early

caster. She if you play her in the early game, you'll see she like her cast does a lot of damage, right? Um, to two units, it can be a little wasted if like she has a low cost low speed unit. Well,

Ari, her damage is like a lot more consistent cuz she splits her damage into like three projectiles or nine on her third cast. So, um, that's also

something to consider. I think, um, with that, like going back to, sorry, this example, um, I think I would definitely want one want toize Ari or Zoe. I think

at level four, I would probably I probably want to Ari because I plan to play Archinus and she'll do more damage than Zoe and she has more consistent damage. But I think at level four I I

damage. But I think at level four I I think I might actually want to play Ari and Zoe because they just have really high base damage and Zoe provides tread and I know I want to immize Ari level five and then level five, you know, I'll

play all of them and I think I'd immize Ari. Um that's how I would evaluate it.

Ari. Um that's how I would evaluate it.

>> So are you not playing the Kog'ma 2 at level four?

Uh yeah, I mean I probably like may want to play played this situation out a couple more times, but I think from the situation where I played it and I looked at their damage, um I just feel like Zoe

is too strong by herself. Um I guess you can say you itemize Zoe and then like move the Zari, but I also think like Ari is also strong like by herself and then

like yeah, that's how I would evaluate it. But um

it. But um I you know I honestly like could be wrong but that is what I got from watching the bites and also reading the numbers and you know evaluating all the

factors that I named it for. But I hope that makes sense. And you know this is for like probably only like one or two stages in the game like two two three and then you level to five and two five.

But um yeah I think Zoe is like so strong in stage two it's kind of hard not to play her. Um,

which is like why I would not be playing Archinist. I'd probably be choosing

Archinist. I'd probably be choosing between the Archinists assuming that you have to play these frontline units.

Yeah.

>> Would you consider not playing the Javin instead?

>> Um, you could consider not playing the Jarvin. Uh I think like

Jarvin. Uh I think like like okay so like I said there I I'm just comparing this damage for 90 mana because that's how you like get value

out of most of these units. Um you need to make sure that your front line is tanky enough for them to get to this 90 mana rotation. So I think that would

mana rotation. So I think that would like you know looking at the other people that you fight they would have to have boards that don't do enough damage quickly for them to do that. But I think you probably

have to play two front liners just so your units can get like their rotation off.

Yeah. No, you you definitely consider playing uh not Jarvin especially maybe if you have like I don't know some some source of tankiness like if you if like I don't think I don't know keepers is in a set but you have something like

keepers or something like that you know cuz you are getting your rotation off.

Um cool.

Any other questions?

Okay. Uh, here's another example I had from a game. Um, I clicked restart mission and I got a board something like this.

So, and I was playing salvage bin and my items at the time were like tier tier sword sword and I have, you know, casters. So, I I'm just making doublejun

casters. So, I I'm just making doublejun for now. Um, we're probably changing it

for now. Um, we're probably changing it later. So, I have two

later. So, I have two two star three costs and I have both their two traits active. Um, actually

for Mousar, I have void and disruptor active, but my void item is a tank item, so it's not really that uh important.

So, I was mostly have like their two traits active. Um, so how would we

traits active. Um, so how would we evaluate uh if I should atomize Millio or Mazark?

Um, and I think these are pretty much the important things, you know, they're important traits to look at and their abilities. Um,

abilities. Um, yeah. Does anyone have any ideas?

yeah. Does anyone have any ideas?

Well, something I notice about these two is like Millio, his ability is pure damage, whereas Malahar is like summoning a body,

>> which is an additional utility element.

>> I don't think the actually tank. Yeah,

they're they're actually just like invisible. It's kind of

invisible. It's kind of >> Oh, just kidding.

Well, then which case the other thing too is that those void links are effectively a dot >> because they're like attacking 15 times or whatever. So, it's pew and you know,

or whatever. So, it's pew and you know, Millio is a single nuke. Well, two

>> and but there is also the utility from Dazzle on the disruptor.

>> Yeah, >> I think the utility from disruptor happens anyway. Yeah,

happens anyway. Yeah, >> regardless because it's single target and with invoker scaling the shoguns and up front damage, I would put them on

Melo.

>> Yeah, it feels hard to evaluate without knowing the attack speed of the void links.

>> Uh, that's true. I mean, I think you probably treat it like a like a dot like previous dots like Rihanna. I do think like it takes a while for the void links to even finish attacking. um most fights that you play in Mazari, I think you'll

end up seeing a lot of void lings left over. Um

over. Um so yeah, I think um and a lot of good points I think like disruptor is a a good trait, but it does go off anyway. I

do think like um you know whether or not you itemize Mousar, it isn't like if you're against melee carries or something, you should be making sure your uh MAR is placed

near like melee carries so that they can dazzle them. Otherwise, you're just kind

dazzle them. Otherwise, you're just kind of reducing the damage of tanks. Um

invoker does scale well with double shjun. And uh I think and I think is a

shjun. And uh I think and I think is a good point. I think I guess I didn't put

good point. I think I guess I didn't put on my my tank items, but I don't actually have that many tank items right now, I think, cuz there's only like three two. So, I think Mount might do

three two. So, I think Mount might do better if you have like a lot of tank items. Um cuz lastings do like their whole their

whole amount of damage while Millio is probably um just like on average solo because yeah, he he mostly just deals his full damage and bursts. Um,

bursts. Um, and I think he uses more of his trait for himself. So,

himself. So, but if the void item were to be for Malar, then you probably like pick Mousar. Uh,

Mousar. Uh, but yeah.

So, um, I wish I have better examples or more examples. I mean, I I have a couple

more examples. I mean, I I have a couple more in my outplayed, but just like how you go about these things. um like we've done before, we've mostly been reading and looking at the boards, but it's

really important that you watch all your fights. Um and how the units function

fights. Um and how the units function like uh you know, if you don't watch your Mahar every fight, you probably won't notice that his voids form maybe is not hitting their enemy Yaso or something.

>> I think it's uh important to know like Mahar's last cash you can think of as almost doing zero damage.

>> Yeah, that too. Um that that's how a lot of DOT champions work, right? It's like

they do a lot. They should like in total if all their dot damage went through it'd be higher than like the comparative unit, but that just doesn't happen a lot. So,

lot. So, um yeah, and if I have like a lot of mana items and he's casting a lot, then um that's probably worse than if I had like

one mana item plus a lot of tank items for my part.

Um yeah, so you can learn by just watching every fight. Um understanding, you know,

every fight. Um understanding, you know, what's causing them to excel versus be disappointing, whether it be like if your front line's good or if you're positioned well. Um look at what

positioned well. Um look at what interactions are units. So a lot of units in this setting have interactions with chill. Um so you can see like the

with chill. Um so you can see like the timing of that works well with like whatever tanking carrier you're working you're playing. Uh also like melee

you're playing. Uh also like melee carries, you need to be paying attention to like if they're getting CCD or not.

Um if they like because you know that per if one you need to build CC immunity or not or there's a way you can just like position around CC. Um especially

if there's just like things C CC's that target like largest clump if you can like avoid that. Um and then just like what direction they're targeting goes you know units can be nearest target,

current target, random target. Um

or like Yeah. or or they'll like shoot an AoE that like goes in different directions like TF, right? Um, and you know, I think it's really powerful to use mods and watching replays because

you can watch a 30-se secondond fight five times and that's like you just played that round five times versus having to load up another game and play that unit and get in that situation again. And I think you can do this for

again. And I think you can do this for like, you know, every unit. Um, there a lot, especially in like the end game a lot. I find myself just watching

lot. I find myself just watching re-watching fights to see what every unit is doing cuz they do a lot of impact, you know. Um or even in the early game like I think like one example

is um I had this game actually just rewatched this earlier um where I'm playing an Oxis board. This is

actually the first time I play around the long, so I didn't even know like exactly what Leblanc's ability looks like and stuff but

I watch this fight out. Um,

I feel like my Brier with no items is like still doing a lot of damage compared to my monk. Um, and of course she like dies first, so like she'll do less damage. But like up until the point

less damage. But like up until the point where she dies, uh, the bri is like, you know, not doing that much worse than with like zero items and also zero traits, like she doesn't have slayer.

Um, and that's probably because like I actually have a lot of front line for her to like and Bri is just kind of really consistent damage dealer that, you know, jumps and gets attack speed.

Um, so you know, that's an example of seeing like how Bri in fights. I think

in other fights, you'll probably watch your Brier and she'll jump in and she'll like instantly die because you don't have like a very strong tank. Or maybe

you like got your tanks aggroed in a bad order and your weak tank died before your strong tank. Um,

and that stuff you might not see until you like, you know, rewatch your fights.

Um, what I used just now was like the charts in the inspect windows. So, you know, it's really hard to tell how much damage units are doing every fight, especially

like the cadence of their damage, like for burst casters and stuff. Um, some

units like like in this set, a big example is just Annie. You can play an Annie and she'll die before she like cast at all and she'll do zero damage.

But, um, yeah, I think you should use that a lot. Like, I need to make it a better habit, too. But like if you can just open your damage chart or your damage tanks chart every fight and then look at it later cuz you're also punching the fight, then it'll probably

tell you a lot about what every unit is doing. Um some units would be doing more

doing. Um some units would be doing more damage than you expect and it can be, you know, kind of surprising. Like I

think um where is it?

I know this is like later in the game, but um you meet to the same point. I think like

here I have, you know, sorry, I have a a three item Graves, a three item Yara, and three item TF. Um, my Graves is

definitely like the lowest gold unit here. Um, but if I look at his damage

here. Um, but if I look at his damage charts, he's like not falling that far behind TFRA, which I found like quite

surprising. Um, now I was like, "Oh,

surprising. Um, now I was like, "Oh, okay. Maybe it was like like a fluke or

okay. Maybe it was like like a fluke or something, right?" So, I like look at

something, right?" So, I like look at the damage chart again and you just like look at like how they move and how they flow throughout the fight and like the grace is still doing like quite well.

Um, just for like, you know, a two star, two cost versus a three star, two cost and a two star, four cost. Um, and stuff like that I don't discover unless I'm I'm like using my damage charts, right?

And you can do that every game and just kind of rewatch it. question about your approach to learning all these units and watching them. Is this more of a pattern

watching them. Is this more of a pattern that you do at the start of a set or is this are you like doing it at the start of each new patch when units are uh

modified? Like how what's your process

modified? Like how what's your process in terms of you know repeatability of how often you're >> Yeah. Um I think this definitely happens

>> Yeah. Um I think this definitely happens a lot more at the start of sets. um just

learning how every unit works. But um

and learning about like how their fights go. I think like as the set goes on,

go. I think like as the set goes on, units might get patched. Sometimes like

builds might appear that you don't haven't didn't know about before that like you know um make stronger like how to carry a unit, right? Sometimes for

costs you won't like see see a way to carry them that's that strong until like later into the set. And I think pretty much every time you like play around like a new, you know, version of the unit, whether it's be like the first

version or like, you know, a completely different build, um, doing this is useful just to see like how strong they really are, right? And then like, yeah, from patch to patch like, um, you can

also use to compare like how much the patch has like really affected them. Um,

I think using the damage shards helps there too.

Um, yeah, definitely a lot more early just to get get a feel for all the units and how much of a carry they are. Um,

and then later when you're like I think when you're like trying to really master and dissect certain comps and learn like oh what's a good dual carry or like um how much is having this important on a

unit like staring at the charts is good for that too. and discovering that stuff, you know, unless you're like a really intuitive genius and combine yourself, you probably won't know until like more stats and and guides come out

of how to play around those units. Um,

but that helps you like, you know, fulfill or like learn conditions like itemization and positioning for the units whenever those boards do arise.

So, yeah. Um,

yeah. Um, another thing I didn't show, but you can also use like the unit inspection windows. That's where like, you know,

windows. That's where like, you know, you look at their stats. Um, especially

for units that like have stats that change uh throughout the fight. Like

Arox will I think get more or or just like change based on AOX has more AD based on life steal. Um,

you like there's an Ionia that gives you like more stats based on casts. um stuff

like that. You can also inspect and get an idea of how strong they're doing. And

then yeah, to do all these things, uh I, you know, encourage you to just try things out. Um swap items between units,

things out. Um swap items between units, swap to different carries, move, uh for positioning, like move units between different hex's and just try different things to see like what excels. Like I

think something I saw first this set was just like I was playing around TF and he throws like three cards out and I was like I don't know what is the best hex to put him on or like what's the best way to position my front line so that

his cards hit all the units. So I'll

just like try to put him between a bunch of different hexes and then see like what does best and then I'll look at the replay after. Um, and then yeah, instead

replay after. Um, and then yeah, instead of like going to a game of like you're just always trying to win and just like play stuff that you already know is strong, like you try stuff out that you

don't really know how strong is. Um,

just to like, you know, discover more.

Um, in the early game, I think there's like lots of novel boards you can make just based on what you hit. So,

you know, you always want to just try stuff out so that you can better like have that knowledge to navigate future unique novel situations. Um,

and remember that everything, you know, like everything everything in TFT has has relativity and context. So,

something I talked about earlier was like, oh yeah, some units need certain items to be strong. Um, you need to look at your component opener, right? Are you

ever going to get to the items that you need for them to be strong? Like say you really need a bow for your Jinx. You

didn't start with a bow. Are you even going to be high carousel or like good carousel pick to get the bow? That can

determine whether or not it's even like worth playing the Jinx. Um some units are better against melee carries. Others

are against backline. You know,

obviously there's like units that jump like Brier. There's like disruptors are

like Brier. There's like disruptors are better against melee carries because you can dazzle melee carries early. Um,

I think burst units are good against melee carries because you can because it's easier for to burst them and also they can't like drain tank you. So

that's kind of dep depending.

Units that provide utility, you know, all the target units like bird and shred CC how you should determine how useful it really is like in your pool or in your lobby. Um, if no one's no one has a

your lobby. Um, if no one's no one has a stone plate or no one's playing like defender, shred is like less valuable, right? if no one has like healing under

right? if no one has like healing under board, burn like doesn't really do that much unless the fight lasts long enough for like the true damage burn to really do much. Um, and then CC sometimes user

do much. Um, and then CC sometimes user CC a tank and then it doesn't matter, right? Um, so those are things to

right? Um, so those are things to consider. Also, when you're like, you

consider. Also, when you're like, you know, this is why you probably consider when you say you're like maybe I'm on the 3 win, I'm at 25 and there's like two other people in the lobby at 100 HP.

Um, I'm not sure what to put on my board. I should look at their boards and

board. I should look at their boards and see if they have like healing or or resistances to determine like what I should play next on my board. Um, and

then, you know, you you can try to always play as strong as board, but sometimes you can't because of econ reasons. Um, you can't always like play

reasons. Um, you can't always like play all the three costs or the four costs that you have, especially because you can't use them all later. So you need to make it you need to see if like it actually makes a significant difference

in your matchups or you even want to do that. Um if it doesn't make a difference

that. Um if it doesn't make a difference at all, you win anyway or you lose anyway, then like you should just do what's like in the middle ground that helps you make econ but also keep a strong board, right? And then what's the current meta? Um some units are strong

current meta? Um some units are strong but they don't play into meta lines. Say

for some reason Zan is super meta that you might have a pool to play more Z units even though they aren't as strong early. Um, and that's just also

early. Um, and that's just also something to consider, right, in like how you decide your line selection and the rest of your game. Um, and there's tons of other stuff probably, but yeah,

remember it always like depends on things and a lot of questions that you have can be answered one by reading the unit, by knowing about them, but also by looking at what other people are playing

in the game.

Um, and that's about it.

And it's been an hour. Cool. Uh, does

anyone have any questions?

>> How did How did you skip the outplay?

>> Oh. Uh, when you get the outplayed ad, you can like skip to a different window and outplay and come back and then it goes away.

Yeah.

Okay. Well, I hope this was helpful and informative. Um,

informative. Um, can't really tell this didn't ask many questions, but yeah, >> I got a question and overall I thought

this was super helpful. Um, one of your slides was questions to answer specifically what's the best three cost holds. Um, how do you go about answering

holds. Um, how do you go about answering that question? Do you like let's say at

that question? Do you like let's say at the start of set, are you just going through every three cost and watching them in a bunch of fights and then trying to figure that out? Are you

looking at the stats like on a new patch? Um, and then how do you kind of

patch? Um, and then how do you kind of compare that? like we we did some

compare that? like we we did some scenarios like the Loris versus the I think Blitz 2 example, but are you kind of doing a comparison of every three

costs of that role type with every two star one cost? Like h how do you um kind of create a tier list for three costs and then be able to utilize that to make

trade-offs in game when comparing to other two star one costs?

>> Yeah. Uh great question. So, um,

multiple great questions. I think, um, every three costs deserves to be played once to know how they play. Um, see how strong they are, you know, invites and stuff. And then, yeah, I think, you

stuff. And then, yeah, I think, you know, everything here when considering like the unit strength, it's like a relative thing, right? Is X stronger than Y? Because one, you're trying to

than Y? Because one, you're trying to figure out if it beats other boards, and two, you're trying to figure out um, you know, if you should hold it over another unit. So like let's say for example like

unit. So like let's say for example like I said earlier I think Zoe is like too strong to not play in stage two. I think

like she is probably stronger than most two star one costs. So it would make me think like oh if I hold Zoe then I don't have to worry about having a stronger

backline carry in stage two.

Like so I don't have to worry about holding one cost. So I know like holding Zoe I'll probably be playing my strongest or almost strongest board. Um,

and that would make her like an S tier unit kind of thing, right? Um, which is easy because he's like a Targon unit. I

think like say like for a more fair comparison of like a normal traded unit like I think Ari like for our example deals more damage than Kog'ma because of his traits. Um, should deal more damage

his traits. Um, should deal more damage than Lulu because she has like CC binger to her kit. But like so if I I think if I had like a one cost or a one star Ari

then she can probably carry me through stage two because I think she is better than two star one cost and that's probably what I'm going to be fighting against. Um then I would think Ari is

against. Um then I would think Ari is also a really good hold. um in there situation like say I had Jinx um she's probably more like context defender

right maybe with like upgraded front line or certain items then then I would think up holding Jinx from playing her um and so you know because of that I

probably have an easier time selling her um than you know Ari and also like based on like if I can hold Z units or not like you know the the power of the value of

holding Jinx probably also depends the value of holding Blitzcrank because he's like your Z on tank. Um so if you don't have any Blitzcranks then you're less attached to Jinx. So that's another

thing to consider. Um I think when you're looking at tanks um I a lot of them do like pretty similar things. Um

so that also depends on like if one is like a cut above the rest which from playing currently I don't know if they are. So it' probably be, you know, again

are. So it' probably be, you know, again like relative to the other units you can play around like Nautilus because he has like two tank traits and also he has buildwater which I think is pretty

strong early might be someone that I like more. Um I think SA unlocks a

like more. Um I think SA unlocks a really strong three trait like Ford so that makes her good. Um

I think like Mundo you know if you don't have the Z carry which is Jinx probably is not that valuable to hold. Um,

yeah, that I forgot I I forgot that answers all your questions, but that's kind of how I go through evaluating it, like how much stronger they are than other carries that exist. Um, that I'm okay

with like selling other units and also like how well they do with my items and the other units that I've been offered or like how flexible they are, right? or

like if they require me to have other units to like be useful like Loris like um thing is not between Nautilus and New

York Loris. Nautilus has Jug and Warden.

York Loris. Nautilus has Jug and Warden.

Um the only other warden that you can get early is Zin which is like you know it's not that likely you get two like two costs early but Nautilus is Jug so

you can get like Brier or Blissprank um or you can get Bwire going. So Loris you probably won't get his tank trait as early. So between these two, maybe I'd

early. So between these two, maybe I'd hold Nautilus unless I thought I had like a good like unless I have like a Caitlin pair or something because I can activate Ptoreer, right? Um but I think Nautilus is probably like out early game

traits like easier to play around than Loris.

A question about um I feel like as a default I tend to assume two star one cost is better than a one star three cost. Uh what are your thoughts on that?

cost. Uh what are your thoughts on that?

>> Yeah. Um I think I also agree as well they should be because I mean it should be harder to get a two star one cost. Um

but uh I think like you know for the combo example because of his traits he is weaker right? Um I

think I guess if they are like if the two star one cost is stronger it also depends on like by what degree is stronger right like because of like what are their what they are stronger at a

base but their trait is like not as strong like I think between like yortle I think they're um

that I haven't used okay sona and wait no sorry Those are both one cost. Uh Anibia and Millio.

Okay.

Um they're both invokers. They both cost three old. Um Millio like

three old. Um Millio like Millio is the three cost of trait. So

sorry, let me start again. If you look at the base numbers, I haven't looked at the base numbers, but let's say they're like Anibia is slightly higher, right?

Um I think like the the benefit of holding Millio is like one you can two star him right you can always hit like hero grab egg or something and two he has a three

cost of his trait so you can activate xall early if you want um so that's probably something that I consider like like say you're between holding like a three cost and star one cost but the you

know the three cost scales better and say you can get away with like a five streak easier and then like you you know, um or you can get away with a five streak provider and then also like upgrade the three costs later. Like

that's why like that's why I like value the three costs, right? Because you can hold them throughout the game. Um

and also if you if you can play both, right, you just like use remover later in the game. But um yeah, and I think like the one cost really depends on how how much they're tied down to their traits or how much they tie you down to

their traits because I think three costs usually open open you up more of the stuff than like one cost cuz a lot of traits right now are like unlocked by three cost. So I think that's another

three cost. So I think that's another consideration.

Um yeah, I think at a base by by their damage the one cost should be like a little better.

Okay. Um does anyone have any other questions? Otherwise, you ripple go. But

questions? Otherwise, you ripple go. But

don't hesitate to ask if you have anything on your mind.

>> Do you have a FF at 32 just to get more repetitions of early game?

>> Um, are there for new set?

>> You could. I think um right now what I've been doing is mostly just trying to play different openers. Um like like I think you know I've played uh like you

say like this Sona Sona Jarvin opener a lot. So I'm just going to start like not

lot. So I'm just going to start like not playing those like like not buying those units or selling them for other units more and then I'll just go back and replay the fights. Um if I really want to play like a certain line especially

because of like the unlocks like say I really want like to try Oriana out then maybe I could but no I usually don't FF in PB. I think I I I'll just try to get

in PB. I think I I I'll just try to get myself to like play something different and then watch the VOD after. I just

like I feel like you mostly need like a couple maybe repetitions of like openers then watching the the replays to see how they work. Um and then also like another

they work. Um and then also like another thing I didn't talk about is like you can look at what other people are playing too. Like if you notice that a

playing too. Like if you notice that a certain board or certain units are streaking earlier or just like outperforming earlier, then you can see that in your bot or in your games, then

um that also like helps you learn, right? Um so you can technically get

right? Um so you can technically get like eight players worth of say stage two POVs if you want every game.

Do you think melee carries are better if there are more components in the early game or less?

>> Do I think melee carries are better if there are more components or less?

I don't know about that. I feel like I think usually melee carries perform better with items about because you can like they like drain tank um or like I

mean I think melee carries usually just have like more damage dealing stats than than range carries because they're melee and they're like you know put in danger more so they scale better items. So yeah, but there's also the other side of

like oh yeah the enemy will have more tank items or they'll have like more damage items so you put me carry at risk. Um, but I think in general I do

risk. Um, but I think in general I do think melee carries feel better to play when you have items to blame them with in the early game at least, especially if you can like if it's not like say everyone gets five components,

but like say you get an item augment.

Um, yeah, I think melee carries are supposed to be stronger early game.

if like did you put like a did you give like a your your tier list of the current balance of the one cost like areas?

>> Uh no I I don't I don't think I played enough to like give a you know a good tier list. I just kind of talked about

tier list. I just kind of talked about like my um criteria when like looking at how strong I think units are.

>> Makes sense. Any one cost you think are bad?

>> One costs I think are bad. I was pretty unimpressed with Koga, but that's kind of by his design. It's kind of hard to activate all those traits. Um

uh >> or like conditions that make certain ones like good or bad.

>> Yeah, I mean I think Kiana is going to be very like position positioning uh important to just get her AOE and also like you need a good front line. I think

if you just have like two star Kiana but like one star front line she look pretty bad. Um, I think actually haven't played

bad. Um, I think actually haven't played Caitlyn yet. Um,

Caitlyn yet. Um, between like Anivvia and Sona, feel like I kind of like Sona more because um, and she has a chill and kind

of needs chill to activate and Anivvia you can't really activate her trait.

It's like harder to activate her trait early. Um,

early. Um, I think Viego was like really strong early just because uh I mean I think I think by design like he needs really strong because you have to kind of play

play around him for a while to get like shadow owls online. Um, but he's just like that like attack speed eight like carry. I mean that just like needs a lot

carry. I mean that just like needs a lot of uptime which you can get early game when people have like low amounts of damage. So yeah. Um, but I don't know. I

damage. So yeah. Um, but I don't know. I

think I actually can't really tell what units are like really garbage yet. Um

yeah, also I like Shen as like a secondary tank. Um even if you're playing like a

tank. Um even if you're playing like a stronger bruiser because Shen just like shields the other unit also. Um like I feel like if you're between like you have a S on your board and you're between like Shen and like allow or

something like I prefer I prefer Shen because he's actually like a support unit. Yeah.

unit. Yeah.

Which units kind of like Gragas the example you brought up and Loris maybe across all the cost tiers have you found most valuable as just standalone throwin

units without any traits activated >> aside from Targon like >> yeah Targon yeah um let's see I think

you know I actually need to play around this echo guy more cuz it's it's actually hard to like activate his traits, but um his ability is like he'll deal I mean he deals a good amount of damage but also like he deals damage

based on how much damage the target has taken. So like that's like how much

taken. So like that's like how much other people have taken or other units on your board have done. So like he might be good. Um I think

I mean I think Loris is good. Um, I

think Dmond might be good to greed because you can just like farm a a gold off of him and I think I mean he's just a strong three AD carry. Um, I think Nautilus I mean Nautilus is pretty easy

to play based on traits but I think he actually does a decent amount of damage early with his passive. Um, it just like deals AOE damage based on his MR. So

like if you were to like you know uh they're like a level five in this situation if you can like get them in the middle then I think my Nautilus has done like a pretty decent amount of

damage. Um

damage. Um let's see.

Oh I guess they're the unlockable units but I actually haven't unlocked them very much. Like I feel like I haven't

very much. Like I feel like I haven't played around Kabuk Kabuku very much but I'm pretty sure the effect Oh be level seven. So you don't really get him

seven. So you don't really get him early. Um

early. Um I think I I don't feel playing bard and like the bruiser reroll comp, but I think if you do find a reason to get bard, like you have epoch or something, it's like pretty easy to get bard. I

feel like his base damage is also like pretty high. I guess he's also a threat

pretty high. I guess he's also a threat because he doesn't have any traits, but uh I mean Jarvin gives your team attack speed, which is quite good. I think like Brier, you can probably play on her own like like I think I showed a clip

earlier where my only trait active for Brier was Noxus. Um, so she didn't really have any trace active, but like if you know you have good front line and use our bar, you can probably just get

her to like I mean she she just gets a bunch of attack speed and AD. So you if the boards aren't strong enough to like kill your front line quickly, then she she's probably always going to do a good amount of damage. Um especially if you

get her to jump onto their backline.

Um, yeah.

What else?

There's not that many other units.

I don't play around on Chaff, but his CC is probably pretty good against melee carries. Um,

carries. Um, yeah. Also, I think like stage three

yeah. Also, I think like stage three forecasts are also like something that you can consider. a lot of time to get like four costs in stage three. Like I

think the the melee units like me like Belf and Vessa always perform extremely well at one star in stage three. Um so

much that you can probably like take items off an upgrade a unit to put on them because they're just really hard to kill and they would deal really consistent damage.

But I know this topic is mostly about lowc cost units.