How To Act Natural In Conversations

All right, chat. Today we're going to talk about how to have a fluid conversation. So, I don't know if yall

conversation. So, I don't know if yall have ever been in this scenario where you're sitting there, you're talking to someone, and everything is really easy.

You're enjoying yourself, conversation is free flowing, and then someone else shows up and either this person is a stranger or I feel intimidated by them

or they're a cute girl. And then I want to continue having a free flowing fun conversation where I'm laughing and I'm being my best self. But instead what I

do is lock up completely. And in a day and age where we have a loneliness crisis, we have a dating and mating crisis, I think understanding very simple but crucial elements of human

interaction has become incredibly important. So we're going to start by

important. So we're going to start by understanding the science behind it because once we understand what goes on in your brain, in your nervous system, then we will have a road map for how to

fix it. So the first thing is that when

fix it. So the first thing is that when we are having a normal conversation, we are in a relaxed state which means that our parasympathetic nervous system which

is the part of the mode of our nervous system that involves rest, relaxation and digestion is is active. Okay? So

what that means is if we sort of think about a relaxed conversation, I'm not stressed out. I'm not trying to win

stressed out. I'm not trying to win anything. It's not a competition. I'm

anything. It's not a competition. I'm

not on trial. When I'm relaxed, words flow very very very freely. Right? And

that's why if we have people who have social anxiety and they have a little bit of liquid courage or they use a little bit of marijuana, people who are drunk and or high will talk a lot

because their nervous system is in a relaxed state. So when someone comes

relaxed state. So when someone comes into the picture, we were relaxed, but then something happens. something

there's a shift in our nervous system to where we are no longer in a relaxed state and that is a switch from the parasympathetic nervous system to the sympathetic nervous system. Now the

sympathetic nervous system is governs things like fight, flight and freeze and this is usually the response that we see in a lot of people who feel frozen in social interactions. So let's understand

social interactions. So let's understand what's going on in the brain. The first

thing that happens is when someone enters and is new to the conversation, we sort of don't know if we're safe around them. So, this can be a

around them. So, this can be a combination of a couple of things. The

first is I see this problem a lot in people who had difficult social interactions when they were growing up.

So, I got bullied a lot. If you've been bullied, maybe this happens to you. But

basically, there's a dividing point at some point in your development. Okay?

There's like this like fork in the road in your development where some human beings are taught that the average person is like safe and friendly and some human beings are taught that the

average person could be a threat. And

it's not that the majority of people that you encounter are a threat. But

this is what's really scary about human psychology is, you know, even if there's like a 10% chance that this person is going to make fun of you or be mean to you, that is something that your brain is going to prioritize. So early on what

I what I see in my patients is that early on a lot of them who struggle with this problem were basically taught in the first 15 years of their life that if

a new person shows up we have to treat them as a threat until proven otherwise and that's why their nervous system acts in a particular way. This is an

interaction that may not end well. So

let's be on our guard. So first thing that happens is sympathetic nervous system turns on. We enter our fight, fight, flight, freeze response because of our past experience with people. When

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unique needs. Check out the link in the description below to see if coaching is right for you. Second thing that happens is, or maybe related to this actually happens first technically, is our amygdala, which is this little part of

our brain kind of seated back here. It's

it's a very primitive structure that involves our it's our survival center of the brain involves threat detection, fear and anxiety generation. So this

part of the brain turns on. So we have these benign perceptual stimuli like a stranger shows up, right? So my eyes see that, my ears hear that and then those

signals from my eyes and ears based on my past history with humans travel and turn on the amygdala. And this is where things get interesting. So we feel afraid, we feel fearful, our heart rate

starts to go up, we are no longer relaxed. And then comes the really

relaxed. And then comes the really interesting thing. You actually try to

interesting thing. You actually try to stop that. So then what happens is our

stop that. So then what happens is our frontal loes activate. You realize, oh my god, it's happening to me again. I'm

stressed out. This is just a regular conversation. Why can't I just be

conversation. Why can't I just be natural and effortless and smooth? Why

can't I do that? So your frontal loes, which which are the parts of your brain that control all the other parts of the brain, kick in. And then you have an internal war. Okay, holo, relax. Be

internal war. Okay, holo, relax. Be

charming. Be charming. You're talking to yourself now. So you are now

yourself now. So you are now introsceptive and introspective. You are

engaging with yourself. You have a natural impulse and you are fighting against that impulse. And that is the the moment that you really struggle and that's the moment that you really get

screwed. Because if we look at healthy

screwed. Because if we look at healthy social interaction, it is about fluidity between me and the other person. Right?

So, if I'm having a conversation, my wife does this thing that I find incredibly annoying. I love her. She's

incredibly annoying. I love her. She's

amazing. But sometimes when I'm on a call with someone, I'll be talking to someone and I'll be blah blah blah. I'll

say my thing and then the moment I stop talking, right, the person on the other side of the phone stops talking, which is exactly when my wife starts telling me what to tell them. So, the moment that I stop talking, I'm trying to have

a fluid conversation on the phone and my wife is trying to have interject with me and hey, make sure you tell them that this and make sure you run. She's not

saying that while I'm talking. She's

saying that when I'm done talking, which is exactly when the other person starts talking that it's impossible to hear what they're saying and I can't hear what she's saying and ah I'm traumatized by it and I'm sharing that with you all.

Now the point is conversation is fluid, right? So conversation is about I'm

right? So conversation is about I'm going to send a signal, you're going to send me back a signal and this empathic circuit of are are you putting down what

I'm picking up? Are you buying what I'm selling? Are we vibing? Is this empathic

selling? Are we vibing? Is this empathic circuit intact? So this is about me and

circuit intact? So this is about me and the other person. Okay. The problem is that once our frontal loes activate, we lose that connection with the other

person because now I am engaging with myself. Now I'm stuck in my own head and

myself. Now I'm stuck in my own head and this is gged out. So there's a really fascinating medical example of when this frontal lobe circuit shuts off, right?

So if I'm saying that, okay, when the frontal loes turn on and they start engaging, wrestling with your amydala, that's when you are no longer able to speak freely. So there's a really cool

speak freely. So there's a really cool medical example of this because if someone has something called an anterior cerebellar artery stroke, the anterior

cerebral artery is the the arteries that supply the front of our brain. And when

someone has a stroke to the front parts of their brain and their frontal loes are no longer functioning properly, they do something called confabulate, which

means that they are able to speak freely regardless of what the hell is going on.

They are just they are smooth [ __ ] Okay? So, we're going to show you all a great example of this called string sign.

>> They had a magic shop downtown.

>> Take this one. Oh, I really like that one. Go get it.

one. Go get it.

>> What do you like about that one?

>> So, here's what we see in String Sign.

So, this is a doctor who's pulling out nothing and they like they they go like this and they're like, "Look, I have a string here from a magic shop." And then this person grabs the fake string and then you can start asking them questions

about it and they're like, "Hey, you know, what do you like about the string?" And the guy's like, "Oh, yeah,

string?" And the guy's like, "Oh, yeah, the string is really nice." And there's no real string. And the reason that someone is able to talk is because the frontal loes are what impede us from talking freely. And so when we damage

talking freely. And so when we damage the frontal loes, then we are able to freely talk irrespective of whether it makes any [ __ ] sense. And in

confabulation, basically what you get is patients that will make things up, but they will just continually talk. Okay?

So we don't want to damage our frontal loes. We don't want an anterior cerebral

loes. We don't want an anterior cerebral artery stroke. But what we want to do is

artery stroke. But what we want to do is train ourselves to turn off that mechanism so that we can speak freely.

So there are three things that we can really focus on. Remember there's the autonomic nervous system which is parasympathetic sympathetic nervous system. That's something we need to shut

system. That's something we need to shut down. So how do we shut that down? This

down. So how do we shut that down? This

is where a deep exhalation is or a slow exhalation is the fastest way simplest way in a conversation that you can shut down your uh sympathetic nervous system.

When our sympathetic nervous system is active, we hyperventilate. Deep shallow

I mean sorry deep rapid inhalations.

Right?

So instead and then what you'll notice is there's a rapid exhalation.

Right? That's when we're hyperventilating. I can feel a little

hyperventilating. I can feel a little bit woozy. You can do that with me for a

bit woozy. You can do that with me for a second and you'll see how it feels. So

the really interesting thing if you just do that rapid hyperventilation like I just did, you'll start to notice a change in your brain. So that's what's so cool about breathing in in inhalation

and exhalation. They are very very rapid

and exhalation. They are very very rapid ways to alter our nervous system activity. Okay. So what we want to do is

activity. Okay. So what we want to do is slow exhalation. This is also you can do

slow exhalation. This is also you can do on the DL where you're not like interfering with a conversation. So deep

breath in.

You want to do that three times with slow exhalations. You can do it right

slow exhalations. You can do it right now and you'll notice a physiologic calming. The second thing that we can do

calming. The second thing that we can do is alter our threat perception. So

remember that the reason that the amygdala hyperactivates is because we've been trained to treat this person like a threat. Okay? So there are two things

threat. Okay? So there are two things that we can do here that are really interesting. So my favorite example of

interesting. So my favorite example of this, so I don't have cats. I'm allergic

to cats, but recently I've gone down the rabbit hole of like rehabbing cats. And

I don't know if y'all have seen these videos, but basically people will like adopt cats and then there's this whole complicated social process of introducing cats to each other so that

they don't fight and they they start to get along. And basically if you take two

get along. And basically if you take two strange cats and you stick them together, often times what'll happen is they'll be like they'll be hissing at each other, swiping at each other. So

what's going on with these cats? These

cats are their their threat perception has been activated, right? because they

lived out in the wild where cats were dangerous. So now that they're meeting a

dangerous. So now that they're meeting a new cat at home, all of their danger signals activate. And it's like really

signals activate. And it's like really heartwarming and oddly addictive to watch the process of rehabilitating cats to where they're hissing at each other at the beginning and then we start to like work with them and then they're

like cuddling at the end. And I think it's like crazy that we live in a world where we have sophisticated mechanisms for socializing cats. Meanwhile, the

[ __ ] human beings who are doing the socializing have this problem when socializing with other humans. Like, we

have social rehab for cats, but we do not have social rehab for humans.

Instead, we have this. The cool thing is that the same principles that work for cats because cats have amygdala, too.

They have, I guess, frontal loes, but their frontal loes are not remember, we're talking about the amydala right now. So we can actually use the same

now. So we can actually use the same principles and this is also what we call exposure therapy but basically this is how this works. The way to extinguish

your threat response with a stranger is to have a lot of benign interactions with strangers. So remember the reason

with strangers. So remember the reason that your amydala activates is because when you were growing up strangers were dangerous. Stranger danger. So basically

dangerous. Stranger danger. So basically

what we want to do is have repeated multiple benign interactions with strangers that make us feel a little bit stressed. But the more of those we have

stressed. But the more of those we have that that response in the amigdala will naturally extinguish. And this is where

naturally extinguish. And this is where things like I think Dale Carnegie's How to Win Friends and Influence People is a book that you know people meme about a lot but it's a really great book. And I

think the hidden magic in How to Win Friends and Influence People is not any of the techniques. The hidden magic is something that Dale Carnegie weaves in and tricks you into doing which is

exposing yourself to repeated social interactions. That's the most important

interactions. That's the most important thing, right? So he says in chapter 4, I

thing, right? So he says in chapter 4, I think like smile. So I think that's a great idea. So this is really simple.

great idea. So this is really simple.

What we're going to start doing is having conversations with strangers. Now

we live in a world where you have to be really careful about this because people feel like threatened and things like that, especially if you're a dude. So,

the way that I would recommend y'all do this, this is how I did it, is I would pick people that are not in your mating realm remotely at all and start to have interactions with strangers. So, in my

case, I started chitchatting a lot with old people, talking with people in the elevator. You know, if I see a dude

elevator. You know, if I see a dude walking by or I'm in an elevator with a dude and they have like a shirt that I like or something like that, arguably this is hitting on them. I don't really think so, but you know, I'll be like, "Hey, that's an awesome shirt. Like,

you're really rocking that, bro." So,

starting to have small and I know that's terrifying for you all, right? So when a stranger is like, "Oh my god," like interacts with you. Oh my god, it's so terrifying. But y'all should really do

terrifying. But y'all should really do that, right? So start to interact with

that, right? So start to interact with people, start to have small conversations with people. And the more that we do that, we will extinguish this amygdala response. The next thing that

amygdala response. The next thing that we can do is actually to engage curiosity. So this is where if we get

curiosity. So this is where if we get stuck in our own heads and we are sort of assessing their threat and this is sort of what it's like, right? So when

when someone comes in and you start to freeze up, you are like scanning them.

You are like your threat systems are activated, which means you're not you're not like engaging with them. You are

assessing them. You are sizing them up.

Your your your brain and your body is paying attention to all their body language, what they're saying. And so

you're kind of like zoomed into them, and there's no longer this like empathic back and back and forth, right? either

you're too stuck in your head or you are fully zoomed in on them, but there isn't an even flow between the two. And one

really great way to manage that is actually curiosity. So, if we sort of

actually curiosity. So, if we sort of think about, you know, let's say I'm like um I'm walking down I'm walking down a wilderness path and I and there's a really scary looking stick and then immediately I feel threatened and I'm

scared and then once the threat goes away then I'm like, "Oh, that's a cool looking stick." Like, "Oh my god, like

looking stick." Like, "Oh my god, like look at that stick. That stick is so cool." So curiosity is going to engage

cool." So curiosity is going to engage our parasympathetic nervous system. So

try to get interested in the person like you know who is this person where do they come from what brings them over here and this is where we think about those questions as small talk but if you

internally reframe to this is sort of the frame that I have when I I meet people now and this is something that's been cultivated you know I think like here's a human being this human being is like completely unique they have a

unique set of genetics unique set of of history and and experiences and like I have an opportunity to spend some questionable amount of time with this person and I will probably never see

this person again. So, I have five minutes to hang out with this unique human being and then for the rest of my life I'll never see them again. So, let

me try to make the most of it. Let's try

to understand who this person is, what they're up to, if there's something I need from them, if I need a food recommendation or I'm new to the city or if they're reading books and I'm looking for a book like let's learn about this

person, right? So, you want to open up

person, right? So, you want to open up that sort of curiosity element. I also

think when I'm working with my patients with social anxiety, we do zero in on this idea of like why does it matter what this person thinks, right? Because

chances are you're never going to see them again. And so this is where like

them again. And so this is where like I've become a little bit more comfortable with people like disliking me and me potentially screwing up and like that's what you have to do to make YouTube videos on the internet, right?

It's okay for people to not like you.

And just because this person doesn't like you, your mind may torture you when you go to bed at night, but at the end of the day, in the grand scheme of things, there's not really too much to that. And so the goal is just to be

that. And so the goal is just to be there with them. And this is the key thing to understand. When our frontal loes are active, we're doing a lot of analysis and assessment or we are

struggling with ourselves. So in order to shut off those frontal loes, we need to step away from those things, right?

So if you're feeling anxious, take a deep breath, you know, slow exhalation.

Okay, I'm anxious in this moment. That

leaning into that feeling will shut off the frontal loes in some way. other

parts of the frontal loes will get activated but those are the those are the ones we want active and then the last thing is once we make this sort of cognitive reframe of okay like this is just an opportunity to meet this person and I'm I've done a lot of practice

towards this right so my my extinguishing response from the amydala is starting to kick in this is just an opportunity to meet this person that frame shift that cognitive frame shift

is what will change the activity of your frontal loes because now your frontal loes are no longer assessing threat they're just viewing this as as an opportunity and then you will be relaxed. The parasympathetic nervous

relaxed. The parasympathetic nervous system will activate and the conversation will start to flow.