How to Find Your Next Big Idea Hiding on the Internet - Ep. 10 with Steph Smith

so all I said in this case is really simple prompt hey chaty BT could you explain what dark matter is in the voice of SpongeBob it starts literally with brackets says imitating SpongeBob's

enthusiastic and playful voice dark matter by the way how great is it that they label your chats so cleanly wait I have to stop you are you using chat gbt

3.5 I'm just going to say I'm disappointed I know I'm sorry it says use an llm to debio your content can you put in one of my articles yeah the author bias is evident in his optimistic

view of's role in the future economy I have a pretty fundamental question for you if you don't like the ear flaps how are you envisioning to be warm is this

just like a thicker look I'm just the idea guy you know I feel like there's probably no search volume for this yeah zero search volume I'm just like taking it on the chin in this interview like

like my my writing is biased and and my ideas have no search volume I feel bad officially

[Music] Steph welcome to the show thanks for having me this is exciting yeah I'm so excited to have you here for people who don't know you are a prolific online

Creator you're the host of the a16z podcast an amazing podcast you're the author of doing content right uh which is about writing creating and scaling a Blog in 2023 and and you are the creator

of Internet pipes which is I think like the most detailed toolkit course I've ever seen for doing research on the internet I binged it like all yesterday

and it was just like I was just like like it was amazing I loved it that was a goal that was a goal I know I was like before I shipped it I was like are people going to get any value from this but the whole point was just hopefully you go through it and you're just like

oh my God I didn't know this existed or like you just end up down some rabbit hole Yeah Yeah if if you're a person who likes internet rabbit hole it's like the the most amazing thing to to to spend

time with so thanks thanks for making it so the place I want to start I want to like start with uh sort of like in doing research for the episode what I found to be what I think is like sort of an underlying theme in the work that you do

and how you think about things and it actually aligns with an essay I wrote recently when which I did not have you in mind when I wrote it but like I think it really works pretty well so I want to read you like just a little bit of that

essay and then I want to ask you kind of uh kind of about that so this is the opening so it says time isn't as linear as you think it has Ripples and folds

like Smooth silk it doubles back on itself and if you know where to look you can catch the future shimmering in the present this is what people don't understand about Visionaries they don't

need to predict the future they learn to snatch it out of the folds of time and wear it around their bodies like a flowing cloak and like I said when I wrote that like I wasn't thinking about you but I actually think this is very

core to your work um and the the like underl premise of that passage and I think your work is that the future isn't evenly distributed um it's here and it's on the internet and all you have to do

is like go and find it um it's there yeah and uh if you have enough curiosity and enough patience um and enough stiven like you can find it um and uh and if

you're looking for like that NE your next big idea like the internet is sort of like the place to start so I want to I want to just talk about that like tell me about that realization or or or that thread in your work and how you came to it

yeah yeah the coolest part is that that was always true right time is on the Spectrum and to your point some people look at Visionaries and they're like they saw the future early there's this

uh really cool video from 1964 I think where Arthur C Clark basically talked about this idea of remote work of course that that that term didn't exist back then but he

basically was like you know eventually maybe even in 50 years which is actually kind of funny because that was the time frame that it ended up being people can work the the same way in London in Bali

and Tahiti and so that's one example of just again like this is not a New Concept that people see the future early but what is a New Concept is the

internet which allows everyone to kind of get access to that data that also didn't exist back then right like the coming back to your question about when did I kind of wrap my head around this

idea that the future is actually like present in these little pockets online is my first job in Tech I ended up working a within like the SEO sphere and it's funny cuz that sphere sometimes

gets some hate cuz people are like oh there's all these black hat tactics and you know people doing like uh content farms and things like that but if you really just boil things down and you think about what search engine

optimization is it's billions of people who use this website Google the biggest website in the world and every single day they go to Google and they tell it what am I what am I looking for what do

I like what do I not understand like what are my wants needs desires all baked into these queries and Google's just one example right many other websites kind of bake this information

about billions of people as well whether it's Reddit or Wikipedia or Twitter or the apps that you have on your phone and that's what's so cool is that not only do those websites exist but now there's

tools that help you understand that information and that you could say democratization is so nice because if you think about it

even just like a couple decades ago if someone wanted to get information about the world you know it's the people who were like Rich enough to run a you know a study on a mass of people or the

people confident enough to like walk up to someone and ask them questions but today it's just all in these data sets online I think that's really cool yeah I think I mean it's it is absolutely amazing and you're so good at you like

any site you have like a bunch of different tools like for Reddit you have like all these different like graphing libraries that you found and I'm sort of curious like how how has uh I feel like

Ai and in general and maybe chat in specific like turbocharges some some portions of that I'm curious like how and if that has like made its way into

your like research workflow yeah I mean it's it's limited in my workflow but the concept is certainly there and you could say it's the extension of everything I just said where if you think about

keyword research um there are tools like HRS that help you understand the keywords and their volume and you know their secondary keywords which tells you what else someone's interested in but

imagine that turbocharge that literally is AI right that is something like chat gbt because it's not just scraped Google it's scraped all the websites we just talked about and not only has it done

that but it's turned this massive data set into you know some people joke that like the world's intelligence is now in a CSV right it's like it's like kind of funny but it's like that is the the

natural extension and then now we're seeing totally new interfaces where someone maybe who couldn't make sense of a data set um now can just query and ask questions right and so that's me

definitely couldn't have made sense of a data set me but but even if you think about like the precursor some of the websites you mentioned like I have one of them is this cool map of Reddit like to me that's also someone who like

similar to chat GPT created an interface that made this massive data set of millions of subreddits into something where it's like oh now I understand that if someone's like on the subreddit digital Nomad they also care about maybe

southeast Asia and they care about like lifestyle design and they care about freelancing and and that's again another like that's someone who's introducing a user interface to make sense of the

world that again now we have this data set for and I think AI is like both the interface but also just the sheer increase in data also matters there

right right that makes a lot of sense I want to get into like how you you specifically use chat gbt uh and in one second but I have one other question that's just sort of like popping into my head which is like I I I feel like you

have this um whenever you talk about finding things on the internet it seems to be about like finding sort of business ideas or opportunities or Trends which I love like it's like it's so interesting to like see all these like little things that are that are

starting to Trend you're like oh maybe I could make a make an app or make a website or whatever um but then I also think you you seem to also have this like fundamental like curiosity about like what's going on on the internet and

I'm curious like what that brain space is like what is it about like doing this kind of deep research that gets you yeah I think it's because the most Niche things on the internet are no longer

Niche like and that in itself is exciting because every single one of us has like the very high level interest that we will talk to someone else about maybe it's like your favorite sport or

like the like Mass book that someone else might find interest in but there's also all these little things that like because of the scale of the internet there are now enough people who might

care about something and the second order effect of that is that I think we actually discover things that like would never have been created before like at the very beginning of Internet pipes I talk about like just the weirdest things

like someone sending garlic bread to space or like someone creating this like maze for a squirrel and like that latent interest maybe always existed but you

would never be motivated enough to create something like that because you know you'd be the only one to enjoy it and so that like again the scale to reach enough people who might care about

something just actually changes the Paradigm of what people are willing to do and I think that's that's so cool and so yes I think there's like a deep appreciation not just for a trend that

someone can make money with but like the creators that are emerging that just do cool stuff for the hell of it and the internet actually enables that I love that there's that like Urban I don't know if it's an urban legend or if it's actually real which is like the reason

why cats are popular on Reddit is because like before Reddit no one had any place to share their cat because cats are like antisocial creatures but like they finally there was a place to like share what your cat was doing and

it was like Reddit cuz you could take P cat pictures yeah know I love this like one of my so I talk about these like not sotion YouTube channels and you can apply that to like there's like not so

Niche websites Etc um and one of them is this YouTube channel just about Japanese passenger trains can we see it and yeah yeah um I need to remind myself of the

name but like it's just um it's just these Japanese passenger trains and they have only posted I think 30 videos and they have like a million plus

subscribers unbelievable and I'm just pulling it up now it's called travel alone idea um and they started in 2021 so it's not like one of these phenomena where

someone was early to uh to a channel like YouTube and they they got that benefit um they have alltime views 240 million alltime views 1.5 million

subscribers and yes again only 30 videos with the average um monthly views apparent Curr being 700,000 and the best part of this is by the way this is not a scenario either where someone is just

like the best editor and like has really figured out how to nail the algorithm this person has no narration there's no sound the edits are are minimal and all

it is is this person walking around these Japanese passenger trains but again there's this like Fascination I have with the fact that there are enough

people who like this that this channel is insanely successful I have just decided that uh I don't like chat GPT anymore uh I'm really into trains now

yeah right if I can get this many views 30 videos well I mean that one of the reasons I'm bringing this up is like I said I think it kind of defeats a lot of the common mantras around content around

like oh well like you have to find a new channel and be early to it or like you have to master thumbnails I mean these are not good thumbnails either it's just like a picture and a red arrow right um

but that's why I actually think some of these tools on the internet are also very interesting because they help you surface like is there actually demand for this thing or interest in this thing right there's another one that you shared that's like it's I think it's

called like TV too far yes TV too high TV too low TV too high and like the most internet thing ever is that so TV2 high is the largest one and I think people saw that subreddit and for people who

don't know what it is tell us what it is show us so um TV to high is a subreddit where I included this in my like original note in Internet pipes because I was like this is just the most

internet thing I've ever seen um and shout out to fellow Creator Pat walls he's the one I saw him shared on Twitter but this subreddit has

180,000 um subscribers to it um and it's just people posting pictures of TVs that are too high um so you know I have them

up on my screen um and uh again it's just TVs that are apparently too high some of them are obvious and some of them are less obviously too high but then the nature of the internet someone

saw this and then they created rtv2 low r/ TV2 far and the best part is that there is uh subreddit TV um just right but it's

private and I just thought that was the best that's great I love that um and and for people for people watching or listening who are like why are we talking about this like what is the point of this like you have this thing

that you say which is like don't overlook silly yeah um which tell us like what that means and why you think it's actually important to be aware of things like TV too high yeah so I mean

in this case like I I don't know maybe someone listening can invent a business idea around this but I think there there is a large part of all

of our personalities which is not oriented around like let me be really serious and figure out an opportunity right now it's like let me let me laugh about this thing let me um again like

watch a Japanese passenger train or like a bunch of other YouTube channels like about someone who's like picking locks or like is like a tow doctor or all these weird things and like there's a weird part of all of us and by the way

if there is interest from all of these people which is proven by like the scale of some of these things um I I just think it it's a window into what people really want and if you can understand

what people really want you know maybe there is again like a direct spin-off in terms of how you can leverage it but I also think it helps you um just create better things in the world and also it's it's almost like the second third order

effect where if you follow these Trails I think you actually understand your fellow humans a little better and then you know maybe not directly but eventually you will create something um a good example is like a Creator Neil

agarwall like he's for me if I think of the creator that I think epitomizes the internet the best it is him and he just creates these uh websites at neil. fun

I'll pull it up neal.fun and each one of these projects

neal.fun and each one of these projects I bet his first one um no one cared about and his second one maybe got some traction but he still was making no money but he's what he's got like 20 20

or so projects here and now this is his job like now he actually makes money from this and again I think it's just this like don't another way to put it is like if you ignore silly you are so

focused on what is immediately actionable and what you can immediately take advantage of and I think that's just a very short-term like myopic view of the world I totally agree I feel like so much of the best stuff is just like

wandering through random stuff that like for whatever reason it you and you can't really understand why and then like years later it like comes together in this like really amazing like product or

book or whatever and so like having too much of an emphasis on what's practical today you like miss out on making amazing stuff later and also it's just more fun I was going to say it's it's a

lot of people if you think about especially our creator space I think can be really myopic and being like what's the newsletter that I think has the most demand or something like that or or how can I create something that goes viral

immediately and then they just like have no staying power because they're not having any enjoyment and I think there's like you know Neil agell is one example but like the the creators I also really

respect are the people who you can tell actually enjoy what they're doing and have a deep fascination with it it's not just about like having fun they're just like I actually think this is interesting and that rubs off on other

people totally totally so I think this is a this is a good segue into chat gbt yeah let's do it so what I want to do uh first is I want to just talk to you a little bit

about like how you how use it we're going to get into like us doing some sort of mutual Explorations and and all that stuff we we have a lot of good stuff planned but yeah tell us at a high level like what do you feel like what do you use it for how does it fit into your

life and maybe we can go through some some chats yeah um so I broke this down into what what is this like seven different ways that um I currently use

it and what was interesting about this exercise is that like I hadn't really thought about that before currently chat GPT is not my go-to for anything consistently as in I don't like wake up

and know like okay for this kind of problem I automatically go to chat gbt but now that I've broken this down I'm like okay I actually have a framework to think about when I reach for it more often and I want to reach for it more

often but these are the different areas so for me one of them is idea generation and that doesn't mean like just broadly idea generation but for example I threw a meet up recently for people at

internet pipes and I was like I want to make this internet themed and so I had some ideas but like chat gbt is really good at kind of helping me extrapolate

from a Bas um another thing is just helping me understand complex things uh in simple ways and that's where you can bring in characters and you know like I I once asked like help me understand

dark matter in the in the voice of SpongeBob Square Pants and it like did it really well and it was enjoyable right um also practical things so every time I'm doing anything related to code

I actually find it much better better than like stack Overflow because it actually walks me through the problem or cooking unring sweaters things like that um another area is debates and it's not

so much that I'm looking to debate chat GPT I actually want chat GPT to give me both sides of a debate for something that I'm you know every so often you feel like you have an inclination of

like hm um I have a strong opinion here but I also have a feeling I don't know enough about this subject so I feel like it's really good for that to just be

like here's the other side like help me see this um cleaning up data it I've only used it for this a few times but it's actually really nice because you

can kind of unlike Google actually structure or tell Chachi P to structure and answer a certain way I feel like that's one of the most underrated parts of really most of these AI tools is to

say this is the kind of answer I want um and then finally the last two were um this is mostly for Content but just like the base for title an intro um just to get something on paper and then

sometimes just for fun like I've had it write um the other day I had this deep appreciation for apis on the internet like and just how much of our web is run by apis so I was like hey can you like

create like a a sonnet for apis and it did and it was pretty good right cuz I I mean that's the kind of thing where it's like I would never have spent my own time doing that um and then the one

thing that I have not gotten a chat gbt to crack is ay art um just because I mean it makes sense why it can't quite do that yet but um yeah sometimes just for fun just to be like can can chat gbt

do this I love that I love that there's a lot of good stuff in here one of the things that I'm picking up like in the idea generation or understanding complex things or debates it's like there's a there's a mind expanding aspect of of

the way that you're using it as a theme I'd love to like dive into a couple of those like maybe maybe we can start with like some of the ways that you've used it for idea generation like do you want to show us a a few chats yeah why don't

I just show you I'll start with the they called it by the way how great is it that they label your chats so cleanly wait I have to stop you are you using chat gbt

3.5 in this case I will say not 90% of these were actually through four but long story short I had an Enterprise account and then had to switch that for

work and then I'm just going to say I'm disappointed I know I'm sorry I but again half at least I would say for sure over 50% were done through four so you are you are four user but this is this

is not representative of all of your chat gbt usage this is actually a great example of just like humans are slow for silly reasons like um I just think if

you think about probably the reason that people don't use Chachi enough it's just pure friction and habits and so this is an example of where I've just been too lazy to upgrade this account and so I

have my work account that I'll use for some things and then I'm just like yeah got it got it it's okay you can shave me everyone on the internet can shame me I just have to I had professionally

obligated to point it out well you know what it's helpful because now that you pointed it out I won't get as railed in the in the YouTube comments um okay so tell us about this chat like where did you start tell us like what what mind

space you were in and and how you decided to to do it and then what the prompt was yeah so I was throwing a Meetup for people who had bought internet pipes in San Francisco and I

feel like a lot of meetups are really bad at one being any way shape or form special right like just a bunch of people in a room and you

it's not memorable in any way um and then two I feel like people don't like learn anything or meet the right people or really it's just kind of like comes

and goes and again maybe that relates to to the memorability of it but I said hi Chachi by the way do you always greet I'm very nice to chat gbt

definitely me too me too but not because of the whole like eventual Overlord thing I think it's just again a habit oh I'm just neurotic and I don't want it if when it takes over I want it to okay so

you are the like looking ahead Singularity like I want to be good a good standing okay so I said hi chat TBT I'm hosting a meet up for fellow people who love the internet I like to run a

few ice breakers what are some some good ideas for splitting the group into smaller groups I like to have it be fun and internet related for example um what oh buy this meant to say buy their

favorite social media app screen time usage which by the way it's so nice that chipd can like just ignore most of your like tyos and stuff um and by the way I didn't even realize I asked this first

but another thing about meetups that I feel like often isn't good is just you end up in like these random groups so there's no sort of like commonality um and so I started with yeah how do we break them up I want to stop you right

there just on the prompt I think there are a couple interesting things like um you're giving it enough context like you're telling it to meet up but like people who love the internet I think it's like a really interesting thing to

give to it that someone might not think to do but it really like changes the output and then I think you also gave it a couple of like small little pointers like splitting the group into smaller groups like you have a little bit of a

vision for what for what you want it to do and I think all all that kind of stuff um or even examples like you know their favorite social media app or screen time usage like all that kind of stuff is going to get you better results

and it's it's interesting to see yeah and by the way I almost I was like should I split them by screen time us but was like feel like that's like shaming um but yeah I think you're right

that you obviously get better results when you give some guidance and one of the reasons I wanted to share this one is because these are some really good ideas at least I think so I actually

went with the first one um or some version of it where it's like basically I had printed out a bunch of very popular memes that everyone recognizes and I put them on different tables and

was like which like what's your favorite meme and even though that's like a very very thin slice of like people's brains I just thought it was an interesting way to to match people but I got this from

chat gbt so they said meme matchup Emoji charades um social media speed dating Tech Time Capsule um inter internet

trivia challenge um profile picture puzzles and you know it keeps going but like the point is that it actually came up with like some pretty good ideas for how to actually match People based on

internet phenomena just like one shot you one prompt and then you got an idea that you ended up using correct I kept going um but I always say can you come up with more do you do that I do that a

lot what what I also do and this is I actually picked this up from an interview that I did with um lonus Lee who's a researcher at notion is I just do you know the like the redo button it's like that little like super AR I just click that like four times and then

it'll just like keep going so you always do the like refresh not ask for more I mean sometimes if I've done the refresh a few times and it's not giving me like new stuff I'll I'll do more but uh but I

start with refresh yeah yeah in this case I just said can you come up with more but normally I will have I mean in this case I was really happy with the result but sometimes you'll be like oh can you make them shorter can you like

adjust some part of it but in this case it just came up with more um so again pretty good and then I feel like um so actually in this case um if you remember

my original prompt was actually like can you figure out how to split these people not like what to do with them so then I um interesting so it sort of like got it slightly wrong but it was still a good respon it was like it knew what I

actually wanted um but I still wanted to uh split them up so I don't know in this way it got a little confused but then yeah I asked it to um follow back up on

that and then I think in this case I said that are more Tech related and then yeah I mean this one's not so crazy at the end I did decide to do some trivia as well and I

asked it to um come up with some good questions in this case actually I don't think I used any of the questions um but it helped kind of surface you know when you see what you don't want yeah um and

so in this case I felt like these were like really obvious questions about like oh you know when was the hashtag invented or like what does this like internet um acronym mean and what I

wanted is um for people to come out of the trivia with new not just new Concepts but a new appreciation for the internet to be like how cool is this and

so I then ended up coming up with my own questions but like with that realization I think that's really cool I think it's it's such a common experience with Chach BT is like sometimes it gives you the exact thing that you want like it gave

you a little idea where you're like ah this is great yeah and then a lot of times it gives you something that's like not actually right but in not being right it helps you refine what you actually want yeah which is itself a

valuable thing and like that's sort of the the benefit of this like always on always accessible like sparring partner is is is that kind of thing yeah and the nice thing about it is like you get that

same Dynamic with humans but with chat gbt you can be so explicit and sometimes crude about like this is not at all what I wanted and you can't really do that and CH doesn't get get annoyed with you

and it's never asleep and I know there's so many reasons why it's like yeah like a 10x experience I love that um that's really cool anything else on the idea Generation stuff or should we go into

the next uh next thing let me see what else did I put under here um well sometimes um it helps me not so

much in this practical way of like help me think of an activity um but sometimes I just need it to kind of like fill an idea that I don't is kind of like

spinning in my head and so one one example of this is I had this realization a while ago that like our phones are so dynamic in that you think of all the different appliances like a

flashlight or a measuring stick or um I'm trying to think of other examples the camera right like all of those things are like physical appliances or Goods that independently existed and

then the phone was like like think of all of the things in there and I was like I could only think of a handful and so I had I I was like I just want a sparring partner to fill in those gaps

like tat what else is in this crazy device the perfect question for that and it's like how often do you have that question like maybe not that often but when you do it's like it's like oh this

saves me so much time know right and it and the best to your point chat gbt questions are the ones where you're like I actually don't think this exists explicitly like this on Google it might

I might be wrong in this case but like it it'd be much harder yeah to understand totally your question yeah it's like it ex it exists the information exists it's just like no one has collected it and like you get a

real-time collector for for you yeah yeah exactly so that's another example I that's cool um and then let's talk about like understanding complex things I I think this is something that uh people do a lot like I actually was just

texting with a friend of mine who said his favorite thing to do in the car these days is he will put chat GPT on voice mode and then just like talk about like qu quantum mechanics with it while he's driving or whatever yeah yeah yeah

that's awesome I should start doing that that's like a I'm putting that in my back pocket it's really cool so yeah I'm curious like um what you're using it for it looks like you know you're maybe

using it for like you know explaining things like dark matter or vat withholding like show us show some things you've been Lear the Dark Matter one I mean that was like the best example for me of I had went to I went

to this conference and I met this astrophysicist and he gave this talk about um well astrophysics and and the most interesting thing from it for me

was this point about dark matter and how we just like don't understand it as a species sorry I'm trying to find it it's like me talking to SpongeBob on Dark Matter here it is see explaining dark

matter um with SpongeBob okay so so all I said in this case is really simple prompt hey chubbt could you explain what dark matter is in the voice of SpongeBob what

like why SpongeBob you know why not in the other cartoon character like how did you pick SpongeBob yeah um I feel like in this case I don't know if it was like

super thoughtful other than thinking about like what is a c cartoon character that I know um is like really simplistic yeah and also fun right like like how

can we introduce like different like conceptual elements and I think something that's underrated here is like you know you can the more boring version is you can just say like explain this to me like I'm five um but if you think

about like even just the what we talked about earlier the fun in things being helpful in learning as well like if I get the explain it to me like M five version I almost feel like like it's

like a little condescending or like just I won't remember it but in this case it's like I mean it starts it starts literally with bracket says imitating SpongeBob's enthusiastic and playful

voice and then it says like AO M like it's it's just like hilarious right and then I was like glad you asked about this wondrous mystery of the deep Universe known as dark matter and it's

just like I mean this is one of those examples where I was like I will be doing this again like like how perfect um and so I won't read through the whole thing but it basically does go through

um not just the concept of dark matter but it was like in it justs about like know the stars and the galaxies first and like like let's first acknowledge what those are and what we know about

them and then you know it it goes on to talk about okay well there's this thing that we actually don't know it's like our mysterious friend dark matter and um it it was really good at kind of

breaking down that concept that's awesome and after reading this like would you characterize yourself as a dark matter truther or do you think that dark matter is like a real thing or like what's your what's your dark matter I

mean I think I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure like the scientific Community agrees that this thing exists we we can we can measure it we just don't know exactly like it's kind of

hard it breaks our brains which is why I went to ask SpongeBob about it because it's it's a thing that we can like measure and we know exists but um does not follow the laws of many things that

we like of normal matter which is kind of like how our brains operate right like we're not structured to dark matter it's like that's why we can't see it hear it feel it Etc so um yeah I I

definitely I guess I'm a dark matter truther I think Dark Matter truthers think that dark matter is not real oh oh interesting I I got to go down that internet Rabbit Hole oh by the way I

didn't even remember I did this then I said great job just cuz I was curious and like asked it to do another iconic character and then they chose I said pick your favorite and they chose

Gandalf Gandalf would love that yeah and Gandalf's why eyes and somewhat grave tone yeah you shall not see Dark Matter yeah exactly like I mean it's pretty

incredible like that's why I I mean Chachi is obviously like very useful in its utility but like I think an underrated part is the like it's almost a game yeah in a way totally I think I

would have picked Dexter from Dexter's Laboratory yeah if I had to if I had to pick one that was that was one of my favorite cartoons growing up yeah but I think this is great I think it seems to

like replace some amount of like Wikipedia rabbit holing that that people do because you can like get a Wikipedia article that's written specifically for you yeah I mean Wikipedia is dense uh

and I think the real again 10x experience is to be able to Usher it into the like level of complexity that you're at yeah

cuz actually like I mean think about it this is not I chose SpongeBob but had it come back with something that was like too complex for me to understand I would just say imagine like different versions of

humans like that but even in the case of like something like dark matter we even our top scientists don't quite understand all facets of it those people like there's the curse

of knowledge right where they don't know how to like or that's not the term is it the basically the phenomena where they can't articulate something complex other people cuz they don't it's hard there's

just so much of a gap there but in this case they can this program can take something very complex and Usher it back down and also the other way around too that's one of the like little rabbit

holes I've been down recently in my own thinking about chatu BT is that it's it's very good at like one of the one of the things that has made me see is that there are many different versions of

English um and you'd think that I'm not talking about dialects I'm talking about like the way that academics speak versus way people speak or like the way that prodct managers speak the way that lay

people speak or like all that kind of stff and there's a lot of inefficiency just in in our lives just because those subgroups of people like can't talk to each other it's so true um and even think about the way that like you know

different subreddits like they all have those different they have different languages for like Wall Street bats like I I won't use the terms they call each other certain things but it's like it's a community and by the way like so my

husband went to Princeton and I make fun of all of him and his friends because sometimes there's just like this list of words in their vocabulary where I'm just like no one knows what copian means or copian I don't even know how to say it

but it's like they use terms where I'm like it's cool for you but like you're like to your point there is a gap there's a gap and I think chat is like really good at like doing like these

like subtle translations between different groups of people that wouldn't ordinarily be able to communicate and that's like really really really valuable yeah and to your point it extends also to other Lang right there people I was listening to

something yesterday was it on your podcast cuz I binged where they someone was talking about how uh they basically knew people who were not very fluent in English um yeah and then right and then

they like skyrocketed right to it was like full proficiency that is so cool by the way yeah it's it's it's really cool it's like it's sort of magical to watch and it'll only get better um it's yeah it's really I know this is the worst

this will be I love that yeah cool so that's great I I love I love this use case um going back to uh going back to your list there one of the things I I'm sort of curious about is it sounds like

you're using it to see other sides of debates um I love that tell us tell us about that yeah so let me pull up this this was

um so um I went to a dinner in Napa with some with my husband and a friend and it was like a pretty expensive dinner and we got not great service and then we

ended up just being kind of like quit all like quibbling about how much we should tip and I and then we started talking about you know like the stripe or or story Square um checkout things that are at cafes and just this whole

thing where I've been seeing it more there's just an interesting backlash against tipping and I feel that to some degree but coming back to what I said

before I was kind of like I have this frustration with some of the Tipping changes yeah but I also am like what's the other side to this like what what would someone else

about you know the people who need the tips Etc so I said uh Hey CH gbt could you provide me with a debate between two people arguing about whether tipping

should exist in America and then it did and it's like I didn't even by the way ask for this format but it literally broke down like there's a moderator and then there's like this guy named Alex

talking to Jordan and it just breaks down in really clear bullet points what each side would say and I just thought it was really helpful to I guess

understand both sides and obviously you can apply this to way more controversial topics than tipping how did it change if if if it did at all how did it change how you think about tipping well I feel

like um did I ask any additional questions here um I mean let me look at this real quick because I'm trying to refresh my memory I do know that in going down the rabbit hole around

tipping and doing additional research I learned a lot more about the history of tipping and where it came from did you know it actually came from Europe and was brought to America and then people in Europe it was too aristocratic so

then they actually like got rid of it and then it's very interesting and there's like slavery that was involved in it and it's um it's an interesting phenomena because it is not Universal

yeah every country tips differently um it is that is interesting it's it's it's also one of those things where once you get into a specific regime like tipping or not tipping it's very hard to flip So

like um in in New York there's this guy Danny Meyer who's like runs Union Square Hospitality Group which own Shake Shack and a bunch of like really really nice restaurants um and they decided to

eliminate tipping and to and to make their menu prices reflect the like living wage for that's my argument as well I just think it should be like I don't think people should make less I

just think it should be in the price of theal scheme and then I also think by the way if it is just a tax yeah which it feels like right this whole idea of like you youp like around

20% Then that's okay but just like then it should be marketed or branded that way in my opinion um not this like social like your people say that tipping is to reward people for their actions

well I feel like if that's true then there should be a way wider range that's my argument is like bake it into the price as much as you can but then also I would like to reward really great

waiters or waitresses but I'd like to reward them 50% and then not reward the people who don't do a good job or pay or you know give them five right and yeah I

no it's it's it's a really interesting like complicated issue and like the thing that they found in in Union Square Hospitality Group is they tried to do it and and they did but I I think that they

they had to stop because when you're the only one that doesn't have tipping customers feel like your your menu is more expensive and um I think the weight staff they're making a better base wage

but some of them make a lot of money with tips so especially the best people are likely to want to work there because they can go make more elsewhere and so it's like really hard to change once

it's in a once it's either a t once you have tipping it's hard to get rid of it and once you don't have tipping it's hard to add it yeah it's just like taxes by the way like that I mean that is what's interesting about like all of

these like these things that touch different jurisdictions um is that a lot of people often what they're really arguing over is like what they want to exist one side and the other side I

think sometimes is more practical around the idea that like there is the reality of people moving to other places or in like in the case of taxes like there's been several

studies around for example of like uh I think France added like a billionaire tax and it's like all the billionaires left right so it's like I'm not necessarily commenting on like whether that's good or bad but I think this like even if we bring this back to like the

Internet it's just like recognizing the like broad swath of people who all have like individual desires and needs Etc and the fact that like

not everywhere is is the same right totally totally any anything else on on the on the debate stuff uh that you want to show or any other like chat gbt chats that you think would be interesting to

talk about um I think just calling out one thing this was like from my um my employer I wasn't a part of this project um but they did ship this thing called sunlight and I just think it relates to the thing that we're talking about where

it basically um is it says use an llm to debias your content um and what you do is if you go to sunlight um I'm opening it up on GitHub but you can actually

open it up on where's the actual link live demo here um you can enter any sort of um article and it doesn't need to be like a news article that maybe has more

bias um but you put in a URL and like you put in one of my articles be curious but just um uh if you go to every.

um and then scroll down mhm to see where it says Chain of Thought just click the Chain of Thought icon oh yep and then click

newest and let's see keep going keep going uh the knowledge econom is over that's the one I I I cited um in our uh in the intro of this episode so I'm

curious what the biases well what's funny so obviously this is such a human thing by the way I also the first thing I looked up was one of my own articles or like the same way people look themselves up on the Internet um and it

was funny because it was my most shared article was the how to be great article and it like it was nice about it but it was accurate too it like ripped me apart it was like this this is like it's just

a lot of like you know tropes or like things that are like maybe like not super well researched like not there's like maybe um some Simplicity here is I guess what it was saying and I was like

yep that's true guilty it's true well let's see what it does to me I'm sweating a little bit here now that I know it's not very nice well no no no it does it in a very nice way but I was just kind of like it definitely surfaced

I think some accuracy about you know how how it could be interpreted okay so it's given us some factual claims the author Dan shipper has started using AI tool chat BT for summarizing tasks freeing up his intelligence for directing or

editing the summarizing the author predicts that handing off summarizing to AI will become widespread in the future impacting the economy okay so like yeah it's it's getting it's getting right yeah okay so it has factual claims and

scroll down there is an analysis which this part is about um I guess so it says Tech Optimist techno optimistic and so I think different articles would get

different flags true like guilty but see it's like is it you see these things and you're like yeah um okay so it says the article the knowled economy is over welcome to the

allocation economy presents a speculative view of the future of work in the age of AI the author's bias is evident in his optimistic view AI role in the future economy which he refers to as the allocation economy He suggests

that AI will take over tasks such as summarizing and humans will transition from being makers to managers allocating task to models um okay the author F further Reveals His his bias in his assertion that AI is an abstraction

layer over lower level thinking this is an oversimplification does not take into account the complexities and limitations of AI it also dismisses the value of human intelligence and creativity and problem solving it's filled with speculative statement this is what I was

referring to I got something similar it was like yeah basically like she did not like you know wow okay um yeah I uh I feel bad

officially so I would say like for the kind of content that we write yeah obviously there might be some bias and like maybe it's um you know there are certain statements that aren't necessarily backed by like a scientific

study or something like that but what I think this is more helpful for are things that are like truly biased whether it's like along the political Spectrum or or or just I mean something

that if someone happens to chase certain content yeah uh of a certain style this could help them recognize that it's like quite extreme in One Direction versus I

don't think I haven't read this article in depth but like I don't think it's extreme in that way the question though is just whether um anyone would ever actually change their habits based on

this or even think to use something like this if they're that far down a bias that that makes it's it's it's a good question there's so much incentive to like be more biased you know yeah um I had a friend who worked on this thing

that um it was this uh it was based on this study that if you if you're a conservative and you read something in

like Fox News um that is liberal leaning you're more likely to like believe it same thing for like if you're liberal and you read it in New York Times or whatever and so he built this Chrome

extension that um would basically if you were a conservative it would feed you liberal stories from Fox News and if you're a liberal it would feed you conservative stories from New York Times to like try to reduce polarity it was

pretty cool and it got some traction but like it it's like it's not it's always going to be a niche thing you know yeah I mean cuz I I think that's a really clever way to do it I think the other ways I've heard people do it is like let

me just like show all the different sides in one place and I think that version definitely does not work because we do gravitate towards certain certain you could say like other humans that we

resonate with and um I think that's a clever way to do it the question is just like I think our brains are so like hardwired to seek out certain things even with the Nuance of like even though

this is from Fox News let's say if someone is like quite far in One Direction they will even sniff that out I think like I think they would be like oh this article is like not the kind I actually

like and same in the other direction it's yeah it's a it's a hard problem to solve um okay so uh so that was um disturbing um you know funny is it's like it's kind

of like when people Google themselves and they're like oh I'm not here there are other more important steps or um but um but yeah I'd love to I'd

love to keep going so are there more historical chats uh that you want to get into that you want to show us um or or do you want to um move into our the exploration phase of this discussion um

let's just see I think we've covered uh most of the interesting ones maybe one that's potentially helpful for people is just the cleaning up data oh yeah show us that one um this was one of my

earliest ones and there was a task where I have this website um or I think it's here tags for untranslatable words I have this website called yoa and it's just this directory of untranslatable

words and that's so good you can see this is a pretty long thread because I actually got it to do what does for me um it's a Greek word that basically means like beautiful mind or or

beautiful thinking which is kind of I thought housed the directory pretty well or the ethos of it um but basically I I had this to-do list task where there was

I'm always adding to yoya but it's like very far in view between because I'll get like 100 new words and then I tag them with these like very broad like is

it about like Society or like beauty or nature or whatever and you can see all the tags here on the screen but basically I had all these new words that I wanted to upload and I just didn't

want to tag them and so sitting in my to-do list and I just said hi chat I'm building a database of untranslatable words I already have the words but each one needs one to three tags associated

with it I'll Supply you each word and then you can select the correct tags from a list that relate to the definition I just a question mark like I this is again where I love that you know

you don't have to like make it super like yeah correct for human like chat will understand it um and then obviously chat said I'd be

happy to help can you imagine like if it was like no no thanks um and then I said great so I'm not sure because this was quite a while ago why I chose this approach but what I

did is I said great let's try one first the word is kakuro um and then I said the definition is X um cuz it obviously needs the definition to abstract what the tags are the list of tags is below

remind each word can have one to three tags that fit and then I sent the tags and then it said based on the definition you provided tags that seem best fit are these ones and in this case it did a

pretty good job so I said great job let's try another word and I sent another word and the definition and it did it again and then I said great you seem to understand the assignment now

can you please return the responses with just the tags in a formatted table with the columns and I just said word tag one tag two tag three and then I just sent a bunch of the words and the definitions and look what

it gave me that's amazing it's it's truly amazing but it did this is again this was one of my first maybe dozen uh chats with chat gbt so this is many many months ago and I think it tended to

hallucinate a little more back then so you might notice actually it added new tags so for example like sensory was not a tag in here slang was not a tag um but

pretty good um it got all the work like it knew the format it included all the words and it included three tags for each and then I I guess I I was happy enough with that cuz I didn't want to be like can you do this again but not these

tags I just knew it was going to hallucinate a little bit so I said okay here's a much longer list of words as you can see there um and then it basically didn't do

it it broke um so then I was like I basically learned that maybe to your point about like if you go far enough down the line like it messes up for whatever reason so I was like let me

just give it the precise original prompt that seemed to work with the longer set so I just said hey like this is precisely what I want this table with these colums and then here are all

the words and it did it uh you can't see there but again it it did hallucinate a little bit a little bit more um so it took a little bit of back and forth but

the point is that like you can see one time it hallucinated and didn't do the table and then I said hey can you put it in the table and so but the point is eventually um this back and forth seems

longer than it actually took it took me probably like 15 minutes to get a table of like a hundred of these words if not more and then all I had to do was just scan and be like no that's wrong like

let me add this one and so it took it definitely reduced it by like a factor or like an order of magnitude this is great I mean this is like exactly the the point I'm trying to make in the in the the piece we just looked at that's

incredibly biased and techno optimistic which is about um sort of um people moving from from doing a lot of a lot of individual contributor work to um

managing models and that they run into the same when they do that you get more leverage but you also run into the same issues that managers of today get when they manage people which are for example

sometimes when you give a task to someone who you're managing they mess it up like a little bit right and like it's it's it's a huge question for any manager to be like how far into the

details do I go and a lot of a lot of managers are like well I don't give people anything because they'll mess up so I do it all myself but then you realize like you're just going to be doing all the work yourself and like you don't get any leverage that way so then

you have to you have to learn how to like which questions to ask how to check things how to edit things all that kind of stuff yeah and I think that is a skill itself for chbt where a lot of people will be like oh it hallucinated like I could just do this myself and

it's like yeah you could just do it yourself um but you'll get a lot more leverage and you you'll end up going faster if you learn the kind of mistakes it's likely to make and learn how to manage it rather than just being like

well it's list and I'm not I'm not going to use it in the same way that managers of today have to learn that same skill exactly and I mean every time you get something incorrect from chat gbt it's like a somewhat of a reflection of your

instruction set and how good you are at communicating that and by the way that's like I have been that manager that you're describing who I'm just like it's just easier to do myself um but at the same time I think this is also really

helpful for people like I had a friend do something like this with Chachi where he's like I I like REM I use chbt to like remove all the duplicates and something and I was like you can do that

in Google Sheets like that's like a that's like a button but there's something really interesting about the fact that uh this is like a wrapper of all the things that you might be able to

do in something like a Google Sheets or Excel or Microsoft Word and um but it it doesn't require you to know what exists it just requires you to know what you

want right and so instead of like people know that they want to remove duplicates from a list or add tags to something but some portion of the population does not know that you can do that very easily in

like insert application here this is again like a rapper that like abstracts that and it's like you actually don't need to know what functions exist or that we've like custom coded into here it just just tell me what you want and

like we'll work through it that's so true that is it's like the I think one of the downsides of chat gbt is it's so General that like people don't know where to start which I think is why the show is is like helpful for people but

the the other side of it is like if you know what you want you don't have to like think about can it do this like it'll try you know yeah and I think another takeaway right is it doesn't it hasn't doesn't have to be binary like

right or wrong in this case it instead of me doing it myself for six hours I mean I don't know if it takes six hours point is like for many hours it would

have taken for me to do this right um or I could get 90% plus there in 15 minutes that's much better and so it's not like

right or wrong right so what is your um what's your top untranslatable word of the moment oh and why shoot I don't know if I have a top one uh of the moment but what I will say is my favorite ones are

the ones that like reflect something about where it's from in a very concrete way so um if you think about words I'm going to get more meta here but they're

code right they're code for an experience um and so if you think about why we create code in the form of language it's because all of us like have all these neurons and things

happening in our brain we're experiencing the world and we want to be able to Comm communicate that to someone else and if something happens enough if an experience happens at a threshold where we're like we no longer want to

explain this in a paragraph we turn it into a word right and so that's why um I find it so interesting when words exist only in one place like these

untranslatable words because I think often it says something about an experience happening at a threshold high enough only in that place yeah right and so for example there's there's some that

are uh quite happy I'll share a sad one first cuz I think it like kind of makes this concrete there's a word in Japan for people who basically die from working too hard like literally they

like fall on their desk because they've worked too hard um and that word doesn't exist in English because the work culture is different now simultaneously

there's words in parts of Scandinavia that mean work happiness which also don't exist in English and like again there's this threshold of experience

where someone where something um happens enough in one place that they decide let's no longer say this in a sentence or paragraph let's actually encode it into something that we can communicate

much more quickly it's interesting and so I like when that happens there's ones like there's one in um Sweden um that basically is like waking up to hear the bird sing and I'm like why don't we have

that Scandinavians or Northern Europeans or whatever amazing and by the way it's also interesting just to look at I mean this is not comprehensive there's probably like 700 words on yoa but it's also interesting

at the very least to reflect on which countries have the highest concentration of these untranslatables in Japan for at least based on my data set is far and wide the most and if you've ever been to

Japan you kind of feel that you feel like the culture is like if you were to like map it on some sort of like web Japan feels like it would be like more

distant in some really excellent and also sad ways like I just said right like they have words for like walking um in the forest like basically like a forest bath right and like refreshing your brain so that's like a positive

version that doesn't exist in our culture but um so yeah coming back to your question I don't know if I have a favorite but I love any that I'm like wow that does feel very Japanese Russian German you know whatever it might be yeah I'm surprised that you think it's

it's Japanese cuz there's a whole meme that it's like there must be a German word for this you know yeah but that's because of so that's an interesting thing are a bunch of German words in here but a lot of the German words um

the way that German works is they'll basically piece together words like compound word yeah it's basically a compound word but then they make it they make it a word so like there's one word

that a lot of people um or is is in the directory but it's like um fear that you know time is running out yeah and I think it's just like time Panic wow right so it's like things like that yeah

what do you think it says about German culture that like they have a word for Shaden Freud I don't know I'm German by the way so no are you okay do you speak German no um but I

actually just recently got my German citizenship um but I don't speak you passport nice I got I'm I actually have a British passport but I got it like

within a year of brexit so I was like yeah darn it's okay I didn't vote in it so I didn't have a part in that just sitting pretty with my EU I know I mean it's pretty good access um yeah I don't

know I there are words where I'm like I don't I don't know what the key takeaway of this like culture because it doesn't feel as representative of like the country but then there are words where I don't know if I'm just extrapolating

more where I'm like H but shoden Freud or I don't know how you pronounce it does feel one of like one of those words that's like I appreciate that it exists because I think it's more of a reflection of humanity definitely yeah

absolutely where when people hear it they're like oh of course I felt that yeah for sure like yesterday um cool this is great I love

it so I'm going to to move us into the next portion of this discussion which is the exploration phase where uh we're going to we're going to um what are we G to do together I don't know we're GNA go

down the internet rapit hole sounds like in some way yeah I'm going to move us into the next portion of of our discussion where we're going to go down the internet Rabbit Hole we're going to use some of the the internet research

tools that that you use to to vet and understand ideas uh and and maybe we'll use some AI as well and we're going to see what what we do okay um and specific speically uh the thing that we sort of

came up with is one of the things I think you're really good at is like if I have a business idea like how do I do the research to like understand the market understand if it's a good idea help refine it help differentiate it so

I think it'd be really fun to I always have like lots and lots of random ideas so what I want to do is I'm going to pitch you some ideas you say which ideas you think are interesting we'll pick one

of them and then we'll go down your your rabbit hole to like understand it more and I think there are a couple ways that we can incorporate chbt into this process and it's going to be going to be really fun and maybe by the end of this

we will have a business idea that we can start okay cool um so I'm going to I'm going to pitch it's going to be like a little little mini Shark Tank be as brutal as you want um I've always wanted

to be a judge on Shark Tank so um and uh and yeah just like let's find something that you're you're excited about okay so my first idea it's women's walking shoes

and I'll tell you about this so uh my mom has been like walking around her neighbor neighborhood for like I don't know 20 years since I was a kid um and she just goes like on one walk a day and

it's like a it's like a it's a leisurely stroll but like keep active basically okay and she used to like I think at the Nike store they used to have a section of shoes that was specifically for

walking um but they got rid of it and now it's just like running and like very active things yeah and my mom has complained that like she feels like those shoes aren't really for her and lookwise or lookwise and just like

functionality wise like walking is a different thing from running know like you different parameters for for what you want when you're when you're on a walk and so I feel like it would be like I've just had in the back of my head that I'm sure if she's feeling that way

that there's probably a lot of other people who feel that way where you're like MH I'm a frequent Walker as my form of exercise and I don't really feel like traditional running shoes are like my thing um and so I've like had in the

back of my head like maybe I could like start like a d toy like walking shoe brand for moms basically the for moms bit would probably work yeah

so that's that's number one um number two um brand name generic zolof or any other kind of um like anti-depressant or any other kind of medication

manufacturer so like basically if you're taking there's there's like tons and tons and tons of uh prescriptions for Zola or any other kind of SSRI or snri or anything for mental health and um

most of them are generic now because they they haven't been patents expired patents have expired um but like if you get get a generic prescription it's sort of like a bummer like it's it's cheap

which is great but like I feel like you know like with for example if you're taking cyos cybin and you're doing cybin therapy like there's this whole like ritual to it where you're like it's like the set and setting and like that's

going to affect how it like how it affects you and I I feel like um anti-depressants like have the potential for that um and can be like really transformative for people but they're

like purely done in this like kind of clinical way that is they make you feel bad that they make you feel bad that you're taking them and so I feel like it would be really interesting to like

create a brand around generic uh drugs um so that's another one I don't know anything about like uh the legalities or whatever yeah there's definitely some considerations I

don't know specifically about like anti-depressants in this case but like for example certain drugs you can't brand yeah in certain ways even just in terms of packaging I know for example in

Canada they have different regulations than America even though weed is legal in Canada all of the different weed that you would get from the government or the government stores just look like these

white boxes with like very clinical you know you can imagine like what a drug box would look like which is interesting because all these Brands want to you know once it became legalized they wanted to be able to Market to different

people and attract certain audiences but you can't do that with like a white box with like very limited color differentiation or anything so that's a consideration but there's def that's definitely a rabbit hole we can go down

that would be really interesting okay so so that's one another one is a product that like we're actually building right now inside of every um that I launched a little demo of it um on Twitter that

went viral which I I've linked and I I'll you know I you know I'll I'll link it in I'll link in the show notes so people can can look at it but basically the the idea it's called

Sparkle and the idea is um my desktop and uh downloads and documents folders are always a freaking mess um and I don't ever want to organize them and so

it's a little uh app that just is always running on your computer it's hooked up to gp4 and um it basically when you first run it it looks at all the files that are on your desktop or on your downloads it's like these are the

categories and then it puts them all into folders and then it keeps them organized in that folder structure um indefinitely basically so everything is always organized but you don't have to touch it and I'm excited about it but

like I don't really know anything about the market to be honest with you that's one of those where I mean we can we can go down that rapid whole tube or it's kind of like yeah we'd have to figure out the willingness to pay right for

sure yeah that's I have a little bit of a little bit of evidence there where like um we launched a version of this pre AI like three years ago and we got a lot of like signups for it um so I have a little bit of validation but like yeah

I don't I don't actually know by the way I think that's actually like that sphere of products I'm very excited about with AI because the whole concept of a second brain I feel like was mismarked in a way

like not calling out anyone in particular but the whole idea of being fully augmented was just like the technology wasn't there but I actually feel like AI changes that Paradigm

totally yeah 100% it's like all of the things like I've been a note- taking n for so long and like all the things that I've dreamed of are like finally happening you're like I don't have to feel overwhelmed by my you know notion

Evernote whatever cuz I actually can have something helping me versus I feel like it's so far for most people including myself actually more of a brain drain than a second brain totally

yeah that's that's a good one that's a good line I like it I actually just came up with that on the spot but it it definitely resonates like I internet pipes by the way would have been created

years ago if not for just like the fact that I actually didn't have a second brain I actually didn't use AI very much or really at all in this but like the point is I was overwhelmed by this like

sea of information that was just like sitting yeah so that's why like I do think for most people it's a brain drain yeah that makes sense um okay a couple more so one is I think uh the next one one is it's not a product idea it's just

like I think people pleasing is a big problem for people um I don't know why like uh I definitely never do that um I I'm a huge a huge problem for me um it's

for me too and um and so uh and I think that there's just like not enough stuff for those kinds of people um so maybe there's like a category I would just be curious to know like what are the communities out there I know there are a

couple but like I'd like to map those communities and see like what could possibly be offered to those people is kind of an interesting one for me my next one is um warm baseball caps um

I really like wearing baseball caps but wearing a baseball cap in New York in the winter when it's like literally the freaking surface of the Moon temperature out is like the worst you know and so

then I have to choose between like looking the way I want to and being warm and I would rather just like have a warm baseball cap okay and I think it's

possible to make I don't know yeah okay I I feel like I need to know if anyone actually searches this that's my first go-to for anything like this right which is coming back to like our very earliest

conversation how Google is just this it is this data set that shows what people are actually searching for in this case at least I use this extension called keywords everywhere it's saying 320 searches per month which is low so

there's not that many people like me basically this is one of those like I don't know you come back to the like uh fast horse thing yeah where I feel like it's one of those where I'm like do

people just not know that they want a warm baseball cap and you might be able to through secondary keyword research actually see like people are looking for like better looking toque or better you

know some version of not this but insinuating that they actually want a warm version of Something stylish totally I but I think that's a really interesting move that you just did cuz like I've been thinking about this idea

for like weeks and like I never I never typed in warm baseball cap like and like I theoretically I want this for myself and rather than like actually researching it I was like maybe I could

like make a whole company to do it yeah no I know well that's what's funny so when I show people these tools I'm like this is useful not just to be like oh let me go spot a trend but let me figure out if actually no one wants this that's

equally valuable to be like oh there's actually not that much search volume for this you know barring what I said before which is that there could be like secondary versions that insinuate that someone actually wants this yeah I think

the thing that's like in the way is you don't want to find out that your idea sucks I know I know but we all have terrible ideas right so I think well I mean I

think another version of that is a lot of people if they see research about that indicates a lack of demand yeah they will go down that like Fast Horse version they'll almost like convince

thems that oh people don't search for this because they don't know they need it and obviously that exists but actually the the broad majority of things people are searching for if they actually do know what they want and

that's why like the beauty of Google or chbt or all these like search engines is that humans actually are telling that data set what they want and what they

would tell you if you were to pitch the idea like on Shark Tank or something they'd be like oh that's not bad whatever but you know the search data is more accurate right right no that that makes a lot of sense um and I think it's

like it's a kind of thing where you have to like literally spend years of your life working on a product that no one wants before you just before you start

learning how to like do research to like invalidate your idea before you like like pour Blood Sweat and Tears into it and I'm saying this like I've done this a lot and I'm still not doing it but like for something I really took

seriously I would I would definitely do the research um but it's just so funny that it's not quick question though um do you see on my screen this one and this one uhhuh cuz your whole thing was like you want it warm and stylish that

for the for the listeners there are these caps that have like ear coverings I want the ear covering I was going to say cuz some like clearly like someone has created a version of this I'm going

to open this up sorry Amazon um someone just had to pay for that click when I pull this up that one little tactic this is not like

um this is not revolutionary but just going to the ratings um this is where you want to pay attention to a few things like one of them is for anything that's five stars are they just like oh

yeah like good like I'm very happy with this or are they like I've been looking for this you know like you're saying I've been thinking about this forever I can't believe I didn't find this until

now so that's helpful but actually the most helpful things often especially if you're looking at creating a comparable product or some other version of what you're looking at is to look at the two

and three star reviews because the one stars are just like the um my husband like to say like irrationally Angry they're just like just they're like super upset about something and they probably would be upset about any

product and then similarly five stars aren't very um helpful either but the two and three stars are typically where you'll see someone basically say you know what like I was looking for a warm

hat this was warmer I didn't realize that I actually don't like that the ears do something to my face or like that that's not really what I want um but you'll see other versions of that where

they're like oh well um I really like this this uh phone carrier case um but I actually need it to be like hipa compliant or whatever that's there something for like documents that would

apply to but you can find little Pockets where you're like oh this is a good product I could spin it in this way and enough people want that that's really interesting what are you what are you gleaning from this like uh what's the verdict on on this idea well let's start

with what we said that let's look at the five stars what are they happy with if anything winter outdoor hat it's funny cuz also you get kind of some of the

stories um like you were saying I love to wear baseball and C this is me and it says my wife found this one

for me and it is so warm on my bald not me and ear covers are awesome uh very dark color so I mean this does um validate this thesis of like other

people who were specifically looking for something in cold weather and it's something that they were thinking about I'm not seeing like super exuberant behavior on this or even like some of

this is like gifting or like Dad loved it um but and gifting is a negative like you want to find like first person kind of I think gifting is not necessarily if it's if there's like some sort of like

common gift that people give or sometimes you can find something special like I for example have been thinking of creating like a hot sauce tasting kit that feels like a very giftable thing um there might not be search volume for

that but it's something that people might talk about I don't know if this is the kind of thing people would virally talk about to their friends and family as a gift um so I don't think gifting is

net bad um but what you do want is ideally the reason gifting could be slanted negative is like you want things that individual people on mass realize

they need and then search for right in some way I think that's also maybe one of the problems with this idea is like it's supposed to be sort of stealth that it's warm and so it's not obviously

something that other people are going to pick up on that you're wearing right it's not walking advertisement yeah and so that's harder to make that kind of a product work so at the three

stars great concept decent execution um what this first one this is exactly the solution I was looking for for a warm hat that looks relatively

normal and not an Elmer F like as many so it seems like some people are unhappy about the size here um ear flaps are pretty thin in this case inter

um flimsy so this is a case where like I'm not I don't know if there's like a glaring like definitely There's an opportunity here but if you were to pursue this opportunity even just very

quickly scanning the three star reviews it's like oh well the people who wanted this really want it to be warm and like this is some gray middle area where it doesn't really facilitate their need

that makes sense yeah um okay so um it seems like we've we've uh very quickly invalidated the warm hat idea which is cool like I actually like that we've we've crossed it off like now I don't have to wonder what if you know well I

mean I should say like all that was obviously like very very Cryer research um but it's also worth doing some of this research to have a sense of size and you know that's an example where

like someone actually and someone has right created a small business around this but it's also helpful to understand as you're looking at these things it's not just the trend but it's like how you

know are you looking to create a multi-million dollar business or it's like you actually just want to solve your own problem and maybe you know create like a lifestyle business on on

the side yeah Etsy by the way is like huge I bet there's let's look yeah I wonder if there's um warm warm hats on Etsy yeah there's probably like some some guy who just like makes millions of

dollars like making warm hats on you know the craziest thing is I've gone further down the Etsy rabbit hole is the amount of um hyper personalized content um that's like the biggest thing on Etsy

people like will create these like puzzles for babies and you know Bridal things everything's just like personalized um the top stores on here so warm baseball caps so we see that

same 320 that's from that same extension keywords everywhere um so I'm not corduroy oh there we go

everyone has the same idea 678 reviews I mean that's not that low um but it's $43 hat which is a lot I have a pretty fundamental question for you if you

don't like the ear flap yeah how are you envisioning to be warm is this just like a thicker look I'm just the idea guy you know other people can do the execution

here cuz at first when you said it I was like is he thinking like heating yeah I'm thinking it's like lined it's like lined with uh because one of the things is wind comes through and that makes it

that makes it cold and then um yeah I feel like if it was lined with something it would just like retain a little bit more heat so it's like it's not supposed to be as warm as a beanie but it's like

it's a bit better okay yeah so a thick hat yeah we can look that three C's that's the domain thick hat cap I mean I feel like there's

probably no search volume for this but let's check by the way one of the things that I think is actually really underrated um is yeah zero search volume but obvious there there's probably other

permutations which we can look at here like the long tail key on chin in this interview like like my my writing is biased and and my ideas have no search volume well so something that's helpful

by the way is I think secondary keywords are really helpful if you were to Think Through what they mean it's like if someone asked this they might also ask this and sometimes they can tell tell you if there's a lot of like secondary keywords which are just synonyms you're

like oh people are thinking about this they're just searching it in a slightly different way and what is that plugin that you're using to find the secondary it's called keywords everywhere and I'll mention why it's great in a second obviously not affiliated in this case

I'm not seeing any like synonym permutations what I'm actually seeing is like something completely different which tells me that there's actually just not that much mind space being applied to this in this case it's like Google's actually saying like we don't

really see anyone search this are you actually did you actually mean a baseball cat for thick which I guess is something that some number some small number of people search but to me that's actually an

indicator where you're like Google has again's a huge data set and so anytime Google is like almost like trying to take you in a different direction if you're looking at these secondary

keywords it's probably a signal that it's like it's like I haven't seen this before and to me that's a pretty strong indicator um but keywords everywhere is great because it allows you to spot

things passively which I think is one of the most at uh things that you can do on your internet Journey because think about all of the different mindsets you take to the internet sometimes you're

working sometimes you're checking the weather sometimes you're looking up some brand or your friend's company or there just like endless ways that we use the internet and typically our minds are unidirectional while we're doing that

it's just like okay I need to go grab this thing from Whole Food so that's all I'm doing however when you add these extensions and keywords everywhere is not the only one all of a sudden when

you're on these trips through the internet you passively notice things like imagine just like trying to think of a parallel example but like imagine if like a typical internet journey is

like you biking down the road but like most people just have like a like a cone around their head they can only see what's right in front of them but imagine you like take that cone off you're like oh there's like a beautiful park over there and like oh my gosh

there's all these people crowded around this magician like what is this magician doing but these passive examples are I think actually underrated because there's like both the as we talked about

like the actionable things I've definitely seen things where I'm like wo like there's 300,000 people who search or 300,000 queries for this every single month and then also like oh my gosh this

trend is exponential but then there's also the kind of like more fluffy fun part which is just like also equally like there's all these people who care about this thing like that's so cool I'm not going to go create a business yeah

but also if you're searching things like secondary keywords that pop up on the side it's like oh yeah I didn't realize that was like a related question that makes sense I think what like another way to summarize what you're saying is

like if you're if you want to be a creative person and if you want to make businesses if you want to make books like whatever you want it's about noticing yeah um and like really really noticing what's going on around you

because there's so much that's always going on and a tool like you know keywords anywhere is going to like make that noticing sort of passive for you so that you don't necessarily have to be like thinking about it all the time and

maybe that like starts to just like make you think about it more so that you get into that mode more um but yeah that seems super valuable I actually really want that I I the only problem is I use

Safari a lot and um yeah the Chrome uh extensions are a lot more like broad you I mean that's you can see my extension bar up here like there's quite a few of them for that reason I just think it's

like I think of your browser by the way as like your access point to the internet and I think that's actually underrated where it's like if you like at least the both of us spend a lot of

time online wouldn't you want that vehicle to be strong and seamless and like an upgraded version of just like whatever comes out of the box that makes

sense um my my other browser is is Arc and that has all the Chrome extensions so I think it's another reason probably to like I know I need to switch you know there's like tools that you just have on

your to-do list to I've been wanting to do Ark actually for probably around a year now because I can't remember who it was but someone on Twitter asked this question like what is the I think it was something just along the lines of like

what is the application that you use the most or like that you you just think is like so underrated and the two tools that I saw pop up there were descript which I use daily already and then Arc

and I was like I I got to try it I love that cool it's great you should definitely check it out I'm full disclosure I am a small angel investor so I'm am biased but yeah it's great I mean can we just quickly talk about the

concept I feel like is is amazing just this idea that like all of our internet Journeys like moving to the cloud like the idea of a the same way we were talking about how appliances are like

absorbed into this one phone yeah it's like all of our work online like actually no longer needs your individualistic computer eventually like they talk about that like like the internet computer yeah totally they're

doing that they have a lot of really cool AI stuff I think if you're like specifically for internet rabbit holes it is like the best organizer of like lots of tabs and and all that kind of stuff and one of the features they have

that I really love is it like if you leave tabs open overnight it like automatically cleans them the next day and you can go find them I didn't know that but it's like so much cleaner that's like a thesis I have I think

there's there should be this um whole Suite of products of software products that deal with expiry um and we talk

about we're both tech optimists one of the unfortunate downsides of technology is that there is no cleaning mechanism native right so if you think about like if you live in a house and you hoard you

see all your stuff around you and you like you're like I can't deal with this anymore but software allows us to abstract that so things just pile up and then we also like just accept oh I have

all these emails in my inbox I have to get to them eventually but I for example I I don't use it nearly enough now but I had set up something in notion that was like a to-do list and it was an expiring

to-do list where I just decided oh if if I haven't checked this off in 30 days then it disappears and I think that's actually like a whole whole range of products could be designed just around this idea of I've been on that on that

Vibe for a long time like that's sort of what this whole Sparkle thing is about like the the automatic cleaning of files and all that kind of stuff um that's I think it's it's so important and it's like really magical when it works yeah

um okay so I I want to just make sure we we we pick we pick a product and and we go down we go down a rabbit hole we've done a little bit of the the baseball cap we can keep going with that if you

if you're psyched about it my my last um uh my last pitch to add to you which I I want to say because I think based on having um gone through internet pipes you'd be into is I was in Thailand

recently um actually with HH who's the CTO of of Arc of the browser company um U and uh there's this there's this dish

in changai which is a city in the north if you've been yeah um called cow soy yeah and it is so good so good it's so good and you can't get it here like you can get it a little bit but it's like

not good it's not good in a lot of places and so I've been like looking at a bunch of YouTube videos on how to make it or whatever but like and I don't know if it's like a if it's like a d Toc cow

soy like Ramen type thing or it's like a a cow soy restaurant or whatever but I just think cow soy is going to happen at some point and I'm definitely not the right person to start this business but like it would be kind of interesting to

in investigate you know yeah we could that one's interesting because I'm like I agree with you that I mean this is like a whole another like tangent of just this is going to sound really

obvious to some but just if you've Tred the I've had this realization when I'm in like Vietnam for example like oh the here is so much better because the ingredients are local like as in like

the basil and all all of the spices that go into the soup are just fresher there and so there are questions around just as you're like spreading food around the

world which is inevitable yeah if you can do that well is it even possible yeah to like to make it good because the ingredients are not going to be as fresh basically yeah well I mean I think it's definitely possible but it is a question

of like is it hard yeah how hard how hard yeah like we're not going to fly in like lemongrass first class uh for for this experiment yeah exactly I mean you could it's just like what Market are you

going for billionaire cowo lovers uh if if they exist I don't know I mean we could like start going down that rabbit Hol so I mean the first thing like again I know

this is oh so I said Sai I mistyped that cow um okay so you're you're so the first thing you're doing is you're Googling um and oh

sorry I'm just curious how many by the way 590 people mistype that just like me every month not very many opportunity um so I mean yeah like just even so just

people who are searching like this um cowy 110,000 per month by the way something that's really uh important to note as you search these things is Google tells you the intent of the

people searching just by the of what is on the page and so if you think about even likey as a query at face value doesn't seem that interesting but it's like are they searching the definition are they

searching for pictures of it are they searching for recipes are they looking for cow soy near me like and Google has enough context from all of the 110,000

searches per month to kind of bake that in and in this case it looks like most people who are searching this are looking for recipes right you can see

like this a recipe page this is a recipe page and just like like in your in your view like is the a number of searches like more or less than you expected and it doesn't it seem

interesting um I mean 110,000 is like not it's not low right it's not like the the 300 for the but it's also um I mean there's definitely like broader queries that do

many millions a month the point of like search volume isn't necessar like necessarily to determine like is an idea good or bad from like the raw uh number cuz we'll go further you know in other

dimensions it's more so just to get a sense of like yeah broadly like where does it fit in the like is it like huge is it like medium is it tiny and or is it nothing which is also even more

valuable um how is that trending and you'll notice the trending up I'm I'm ahead of the curve here look at you I think cowy could be the next bone broth you know I mean I do think like there's a

whole chapter in Internet pipes which I think is like very underrated which is taking things from one part of the world and applying them elsewhere um with the right branding or the right like uh

operational strategy like you said D Toc right making it simple um so I mean even just at face value I love just showing people a Ser a search engine results page like this and just being like what

can you learn and already you can learn like roughly the volume you can learn that when people search this they're looking for recipes not some of the other things I mentioned we learn that it's growing over time we can look at

the related keywords and you can see it's you know not surprising but like House story Meeting House story restaurant Main Ingredients paste recipe so there's demand for not just obviously

the term but all these other things um you also really quickly just cuz Google's like pretty Advanced like you can see how many restaurants there are oh sorry I'm weirdly zooming in here but there's also did you know I discovered

this recently there's food. goole.com no

I did not know that it's like a kind of abstracted version of Google oh wow but you can see here dishes in restaurants yeah so I wonder actually if we can super

quickly and by the way sometimes it's helpful to do just like comparative searching so you asked me about like volume well there's no straight answer of as so like whether 110,000 is good but we can also look at something that's

a little more popular in common Something Like Pat Tha or green curry to see um so in this case I don't wonder if it tells you should we just door Dash

some right now um I mean again some of this is like some people might be thinking oh well not all of this is like extremely data driven but I think what's helpful along the research journey is

just picking up on things and one of the things I'm picking up on is like the restaurants that are coming up here like don't really have high reviews and it's like that's like a just a purely anecdotal or like qualitative thing that

I'm noticing by High reviews you mean number of number of reviews no I mean like the actual rating cuz like 4.2 is like in your view so 4.2 is low for you out of five I think so okay uh maybe I'm

just picking I just like I'm just I'm legitimately asking like I would I would have I would put 4.2 as like it's decent you know it's not like a 4.9 is like oh this is actually this could be like

really good it's decent but not great okay yeah but but you're you're saying it's sort of like H I think it depends on the city right I know some I'm not local to New York so like maybe in New York it's like people rate lower there's

definitely places in Bali for example and changu everything was so high that we like some of my friends were like we can't trust a 4.5 like 4.5 is not good

um so yeah I think I have that with different apps too like door Dash I always rate Five because I'm kind of rating my my Dasher rather than the restaurant and so I think the the the

ratings are artificially high but yeah cool um so coming back here I mean one thing we can my computer is freezing there we go

um so we can also look at the people also search for thing um and so like let's just quickly get a sense of like cowy near me that's like you know the classic like location based thing by the

way are you thinking like I guess we can figure this out along our journey but like a restaurant a kit uh one of the things that occurred to me is that a big component of cowy that makes it difficult to make is you have to make

the cow soy like curry paste first um and if you just had the curry paste it would be a lot easier to like put the rest together and so maybe it's like a d Toc curry paste yeah yeah that's

interesting um so yeah like 5400 people it is increasing I love to see charts like this by the way which are like low

volume but like growing for sure because I mean it's one thing let me show you like if we just go to like Google Trends I always just like you know how

there's like saved queries I always open tiger for it's just it's just there it's just saved in my bar um but I just wanted to show you and others like how

long some of these Trends can go so like edamame is my favorite because it's something that um people are pretty familiar with now um but you can see it has trickled up since 2003 when they

started tracking this and it's just like continuously because I think to your point if something is good and like try finding someone who's tried cowy who like hates it there's not many people

but to your point there's just like operational or logistical constraints but to me this is like if someone can fix that there's like latent demand for it um I'm trying to think of

like m is just like a force I didn't realize that okay people are going to be like you're talking about this on another podcast people love these snackable beans like lupini beans have

you heard me talk about lupini beans no I haven't I wonder if this I I don't even know how this graph is going to look oh there we go lupini beans are these like beans I think originally from

Italy but the reason people love them is because these beans actually taste quite good they're highly snackable but they're very healthy like like the protein and the other like Fiers in them

and so these beans that are native to these parts of the world like Italy or like Japan I think just like are slowly you know now you can find edamame in a

Costco right right like as like a chip replacement type thing like uh the beans are migrating as a chip replacement or is yeah just I think a healthy enough

snack got it yeah um Okay so if we're thinking like of C another few places that I would check for example are I mean Reddit of course and so one

tool that I always check and it's not always guaranteed to um surface something but it's just to see what subreddits exist this so tell us what what we're looking at here this is a

tool made by this guy um his last name isn't on vodka so that's you know why it's like his GitHub he didn't really name it um but it's a tool where you can

see the interconnections on Reddit in any given subreddit and so we can I typically start with something broad that I know exists so for example r/

Thailand and then once this does its whole animation you can see the like related subreddits this one doesn't seem as interesting but you can kind of see like what potentially let's go that's

interesting vase forums isn't this the edge like people who go as teachers like to Thailand but yeah I mean one interesting part of this little rabbit

hole is purely just what other subreddits exist and by the way the same person who made that um also made this map of Reddit which is I use both often

because they for whatever reason don't always function exactly the same this one tends to give you less subreddits like less nodes um in connectivity but

it views everything in more of like an extended map where you can see if I zoom out out all of the subreddits in this like large oh wow you can see it's kind

of like a a world map right like that's so cool yeah so you can see where like of all things like r/ Thailand is in this thing which is kind of in Travel

Land but also like kind of next to Parenting interestingly enough and like yeah how did they make this um I think he's just like a machine learning engineer cuz if you look at a lot of his

he's done this in really interesting ways he's like another one of these like top five creators for me who just does this for fun but he's got another tool for example where he's done the same thing for Google queries where it's like

X versus Y and so you can see for like any given thing a product what are the most obvious close ties uh yeah for comparison um so he just he has another

one by the way like another product on his GitHub where basically he's like taken maps of places and then just distilled it down into this like really

basic street view interesting and people like print them on C on mugs and posters and it he's just really fascinating that's fascinating but coming back to R

Thailand we can also go to changm you can click any of them and just see like sometimes it changes and you start to see new connections but in this case it doesn't it seems like I can't believe

there's not a specific cow soy subreddit oh Thai food but see there's Thai food what can we learn from that um see and then now we are actually see we we're

kind of getting into a thicker part of the internet um where now we see Thai food but we also see things like Korean food or Japanese food Vietnamese Asian

eats is a subreddit on its own um you also see I think I saw something here cooking videos recipe inspiration um there's a subreddit called shitty

Ramen right and so by the way I think we talked about like not ignoring the silly I would say when you're going down these internet rabbit holes it's equally important to not ignore um just like

what you find interesting as in like if you're going down specifically to validate this like idea of caloy yeah not to feel like you you can't explore

outside of that if that makes sense um and then also interesting things like kombucha is up here on the leftand side Sushi Abomination Mexican food Gore by the way

like to me I'm seeing like something really interesting here which is like kind of the flagship foods of some of these places

have um you could almost say super fans who really take offense to like when

it's done badly and so interes that's that's interesting to me um you also see things like recipe gifs which is huge by the way do you know this whole Rabbit

Hole mm um I think due to partially the um the Ridiculousness of recipes online people started creating recipe gifs which were just like super and you see

this on Tik Tok as well but that's like a big Community um not so much on Reddit but I think things like Tumblr where people just post recipe gifs instead of the long it's like step one step two but

it's like in yeah cut just watch watch the actual thing happening um yeah so I'm seeing a lot here um we can take it in a few different directions like we

can for example One Direction you can do is you can go to r/ Tha food and you can use tools like subreddit stats or Gummy

Search to see the top voted post over time you can get a sense of like sometimes it's obvious like maybe it's all pad tie but I bet you it's not in this case and you can see like what

people are actually talking about if I pull up Gummy Search for example you can let's just G search it is a a Reddit tool um and you can you can see I've got

a few saved a audiences when this opens but you can for example um add an audience so make a new audience and I'll just put Thai food and you can

add multiple um communities here which can be helpful cuz for example if we were actually just trying to compile the learnings from what I just noticed about like there's one about like sushi Abomination and there's

other ones about like other kinds of food gone wrong we could for example add all of those in this case I'm just going to add r/ th food to

start um and this is where we can start to learn this is a relatively small subreddit so how many people 10,000 Subs like yeah it's pretty small um but this

is where you can if you go to you open up the subreddit here again this is a smaller subreddit so I don't know if you're going to learn as much but you can see uh keywords that are in here uh

posts and like you know specific days or whether it's like post tend to do better with images Etc you can see the kind of people in here in the subreddit uh in

this case again small subreddit so we're not seeing too much but you can also so um the thing that Gummy Search does that's different from something like a

subreddit stats is if I go to themes um and it can be again not always the best for smaller subreddits but they've basically broken down um top content so

you can see automatically like what are people talking about what is the most up upvoted so let's just see browse top posts and what they've done is they've applied AI as well so you can look at

patterns so it'll basically be like what are the what are the themes that we're seeing the most on here um so this is just the pure view of just like top

voted submissions Kow my death Rome i' I mean I'm with I'm with that person it's so good they spelled it wrong but like it's fine let's see here so for example

96 submissions let's just see F patterns what it says and um basically like to me this is not super interesting but sometimes something will surface about like the

pns there was one for example where it was like Europe fire the subreddit which was significantly bigger like Financial Independence fire exactly um it had all

the obvious things like people care about like ETFs and things like that and then there was one about like Portugal real estate and you're like oh there's a lot of people talking about Portugal real estate that's interesting um but for example like Tai Curry you can click

into any of these if they do seem interesting and then you can pull up the specific post that was like High upvoted got it and then what you can also do is like in this section um I guess since

there's not enough post it won't let me do this but like you can click pain and anger for example or specific advice or solution requests so if there is a big enough Community you can like maybe um

one of these other ones for example like like Asian food I wonder how big this one is oh that's even smaller um you can basically actually surface some very specific solution

requests advice requests Etc so so coming back to like the the idea we're trying to refine based on the things you've seen so far like what is it making your brain do and what do you

think we should do to take the next step in the in the idea either validation or refinement or whatever yeah I think so maybe the next thing I would open up is something like answer the public and I

what I want to get a more color around is like what people are associating this thing to so again some of those secondary keywords to see if there's enough volume for things like oh like I

actually just want a better recipe or I'm like I need something here um another thing you might want to do is just start looking into competitors or like to see if anyone's actually doing

it doing this so like we can look up like like cow soy um like recipe kit or something like that and not so much for the volume but to actually see who's

doing it um who's doing this and um you can see a few so then you would take something like some of these kits and either put them into a tool like similar web to see the um the volume the number of page

views they have a month or you can also look into I see some of these on Amazon for example and so I would be interested in pulling up something like a jungle Scout to see how much they're actually

doing and on Jungle Scout you can see like the margins and things like that as well so I think one One Direction that you could take it is actually just

trying to see what is being sold so we we searched cow soy recipe kit there's no search volume according to that um but you start to see a few different uh

companies that do have for example cow soy seasoning mix um a cow soy vegetarian protein hot cup that are selling on Amazon for example and then we see on the actual results page a few

different companies that aren't advertising but do sell some sort of Kit and so the next place you could take it is you could take some of these companies that sell uh on the ser and

you can put them into uh similar web for example so if we take H actually this is this is just one product on takeout kit for example but actually yeah why don't we put takeout kit into similar web I'm

just curious how that does and then in addition I pulled up jungle Scout um which is a an Amazon Analytics tool where you can see specific products like

we saw two of them advertising so we can actually get a sense of how much volume they do and of course I'm getting hit with a c capture which I mean at this point they should be getting rid of

those like a I can do this yeah well can't yeah AI Sol the C the robots won yeah all right while this is loading let's look at jungle Scout so I searched

in their keyword Scout tool to start cowo and this is again where you can um we'll get to the product search as well um but where you can get a sense of just like how much volume there is so in this

case down here we have caloy there's very limited volume less than 450 searches per month but you can also see yes some people are bidding uh easy to rank moderate this is where you can get

additional ideas like you can see something for example like Asian noodles actually has way more search volume but is actually much easier to rank on um there's a lot of branded terms here um but you can get a sense of what people

are actually searching for and again like maybe pivot if you yeah um if you're not like set onest I'm pretty W to C okay so then let's go to product research we can we can pivot if you want

whatever you think is is uh is the right move let's go to the product database and just see let's see let's see how much these companies are making interesting it's so interesting that it's a low competition keyword sorry

it's a it's a low volume keyword but it's still moderate competition like that seems like a not a great thing to to play right all of this is data so I should say like you know some people might be listening and they're just like

you know you don't have a clear answer by the end and to be fair some some rabbit holes you go down there is a very clear like no and then sometimes there's not necessarily like a definitive yes

but you're like oh actually there's seems to be like this Gap where no one's addressing this like huge keyword search volume and uh I could create a product in it um but often you're just gaining

data right you're getting data about the reviews the lat and demand out there the products and how they're currently doing in the space and you're all kind of like bunching that together and seeing if you can create something that's

differentiated um so in this case like there's this like cow soy cooking uh kit and we can sort all this by the way with like monthly Revenue in Jungle Scout so

so in this case it's low right like the top for caloy at least what's coming up here is like $1,500 um versus oh but see I mean coming back to the review conversation

like really low reviews right and that's like the top one according to this also something that's interesting kind of paying attention to what this is surfacing not just pure numbers there

are t-shirts that people are selling that are like about cow soy and like I love cow soy and I don't know sometimes you just have to pull in those qualitative data points

just to be like okay like I'm not the only one who really loves this thing um if we pull up the similar web if it's going to load I'm just curious how much

that website about like um takeout kit take out kit yeah and takeout kit is bigger than just C but it's correct but it kind of gives

you a sense of like look at its description here which is helpful even just on itself it says it's uh Global Pantry meal kit so it's not just like any meal kits they're specifically orienting around Global Pantry meal kits

Asian meal kits Robin meal kits so it is like in the Wheelhouse of what you're describing um so it's pretty low 10,000 views per month um the nice part about

this uh a similar web even their free version is you can start to see the related sites as well so this is where you can kind of go down another rabbit hole and you're like oh what's try the world what's House Foods um and then in

this case what's also helpful is just to see like okay so they basically do no paid search and sometimes this is helpful um you can view it in different ways sometimes if you look at a space

and you're like oh every participant in it is doing organic search for example um well like what if I actually Juiced you know my product with paid like could

I out compete them could I like get more attention build a stronger brand but there's a second side to this where it's not like binary where what you actually might be seeing is like this kind of thing you can only do with Organic

search as an you can only really be profitable or build something sustainable um and so it may be an indicator like another data point for when you're assessing these things to be

like is this the kind of business I want to build right for example if you go down the rabbit hole of like comparing different credit cards and points and that's what like what nerd wallet does yeah they have so much organic search

and like all their competitors are also like organic search Kings and like in that part particular Market if I were to assess it I'd be like oh actually I would only ever do this if I think I

have some advantage in organic search right like I'm not going to be able to compete with paid or like social or something else that makes sense um so yeah I mean to me is everything we've

learned so far is like one I probably if I had more time I'd be going further down this like Reddit rabbit hole and looking for signals in terms of like maybe not only on the r/ like Thai food but some of these like adjacent

subreddits to see if there's just like lat in demand of people who want like way better Asian food in America as an example but then I also would be kind of

like bringing every all of this together to be like okay clearly there's not like a huge amount of demand do I think I could create like a differentiated product that probably in this case because there's not much search demand I

could Market really well on social for example and like create something like d Toc and like do I have like good enough Facebook ad chops to do that effectively and and you know again you're not going

to get a definitive answer but it's probably enough to start working with to be like can I create some like basic tests where I don't even need to create the product but I could run some ads and get some data yeah I mean that makes a

lot of sense it's so valuable like because we just went down these these this list of ideas we took two of them and in like five minutes I'm already like I don't I'm probably not going to do the warm Hat

Thing If you pursue the worm hat thing after our like cursory research you just want that product yeah and then I think for the cowy thing

like the vibe I'm getting is cow soy is going to happen cow soy is like it's it's inevitable right and then I have to like I have to do this calculus of like

am I going to be the leader of the cowy movement obviously not um but like I feel like what I'm seeing like looking at that chart is probably in five years

or 10 years that chart will have continued that Trend and someone will do that and that's like an interesting thing to to pay attention to and might be an opportunity later on down the road once it's like a little bit bigger and there's more search volume and there's

there's all that kind of stuff but um the like I don't know 5 10 20 minutes we spent now saves like so much time in like I don't know I think an alternative

route would be just like go and make make a bunch of cow soy paste and then like maybe start a restaurant or whatever which like sometimes that that is actually the right move cuz like you just all you really want to do is like

make the best cow soy and in that case like you shouldn't you don't need to do the the search engine because you want to be you want to build that movement you want to build a movement of it um and sometimes like you want to obviously

know is there an actual Market here is there a business to be built here and I think what we found is like there could be but it's going to take a long time and it probably right now is not the right time and that's such a valuable thing to know yeah and and again you can

go way deeper down the rabbit hole but I think it's your point even just these like few data points I think the way you describe the picture is accurate and people just need to decide from these data points is this the kind

of business I want to build like where are we on the the curve is it going up or down how far along are we do I want to be the person who's really like pushing the the like rock up the hill or like do I want to be someone who comes

in at the end and just like builds like you know the coolest version of the product once there's Demand by the way just one more thing that might be worth looking at is if you like look up especially something like C soy which

we're unsure of in terms of like if there's enough interest can also look at the geographical interest and so let's do this for the US only that's actually

really really interesting and something this this reminds me caloy reminds me of hard kombucha which um I saw this using keywords Everywhere by the way years ago

I was like just buying some and I was like oh there's a trend here like I didn't even know that there was such a trend and if you looked at it geographically back then it was like only in a few States and this doesn't

surprise me at all it's on the co but I bet that if you actually looked at this a year years certain years from now this would be all blue it wouldn't all

be the same blue of course but I mean even this is interesting in a way like I wouldn't have necessarily expected Oregon and Washington to be like maybe there's like a lot of Thai immigrants there or something like that possible or they just have good taste there you know

it's funny I was like do you know what Zen is uhuh it's like the like um nicotine patches oh yeah you know that yeah are you a user no I'm not there's a there are Zen watches which I know um

but yeah uh well no the reason I was uh mentioning it is because the exponential curve on this so big and I was asking people I posted it and I was like why why Montana and I think it's cuz there's

a lot of Scandinavian immigrants there okay that's so funny um wow that's that's fascinating this is this was incredible I feel like I'm like in the presence of Genius like you're you're

you're an internet impressario well I mean I like what I'm excited about is like these are the things that I rely on and I think there's like a few things going on right now one of them is that

more people are using these tools they'll get better and they'll improve the second is that like there's way more tools that I don't know about so I want people to surface those and like me to

like build out my like internet toolkit um and then I just think over time like this is like we talked about like AI is the worst that'll ever be like our ability to ascertain what people want

need enjoy is only going to improve a time and some people might think that's like oh these like privacy concerns but obviously all these this is like aggregate data right like I don't know

who actually likes cowy I just have a sense of that it's desired potentially and I think ultimately the reason I'm excited is because I hope that as more people use this we actually get better

products right like if if people actually understand not just where demand is but there's other tools we can use to more so gauge like again like not just creating a cowy kit but like if I

were to do that how would I do that to make it better totally I love that that that that makes a lot of sense um and it I don't know makes me really excited for like what these tools are going to look like in five years or something like

that um so before we end and I know we're like we're very close at time but we had a bunch of um we had a bunch of Twitter questions for you and I would be remiss if I didn't ask like a lightning

round of a few we try to make it lightning Twitter question do it for for the Twitter okay cool uh so L crypto asks why you sto

doing you don't learn in school it was their favorite podcast oh that's so nice um it's because of me so I do it with my husband it's funny that's the thing we get asked about the most and it

just takes more work than I think people realize you run a podcast you know but it's coming back we're doing it in very disperate Seasons great amazing I love it uh Jessa asked do you use Chachi BT

for therapy or self-help no but I I definitely can see the use case I have a therapist that guys so I I'm very for therapy well we have like a couple's

therapist and that's been amazing that's awesome yeah uh what's something that you worked on Andrew asked what's something that you worked on that turned out to be a dud oh I mean go to my product T all my

first projects are like not it's interesting because they're very much of that ilk of Internet products like youo I mentioned it's like it's a project yeah so funny

that those two words by the way mean different things like product and project um and sometimes they're interchangeable and sometimes they're not but um if you look at a bunch of my early projects like NAD Hub was my first

one after I learned a code it's like no one needed it so so yeah there's son of random everyone who makes stuff has that

graveyard of stuff they made that was terrible so yeahh okay last one what is a habit or or what is a habit or action she's intentionally stopped that has helped her productivity mindset or

health from David um I saw this one and I thought about it and I'm actually not sure but there's one thing that I probably my husband's been trying to get me to to do

this and I think he's right which is I very much am an inbox zero person um but I also do things like I will uh use superhuman to like take all my newsletters and like I read them on

Sundays for example yeah but talking about this like weight that the internet can create sometimes um it's like requirement to like read all your

newsletters or to like get to things I think is like not great for me over time I'm like why do I feel the need to respond to everyone why do I feel the need to read like every version of numlock every single week and it's like

I think actually I need to like reverse some aspect of that it's really interesting I the opposite I like don't respond to any emails and I feel tremendous guilt and shame about it all the time and I like want to get better well

I don't I'm not necessarily good at responding to people quickly I just like I kind of put it away and it's like a wait on your life to be like oh you you do have to like get through all these

emails versus Cal is more just like you know the kind of person that he like says like 10,000 emails and he's like what's the problem and I'm like there's a problem that's great well I think this

is this is a great place to end we' covered so much this is an incredible interview um we we had more stuff planned like we were going to go into some more uh you know using AI for for more research stuff but we'll have to do

maybe a part two um after our like warm baseball Cat Project like a year from now I'll have more business ideas for you you know we'll find something that we can validate and yeah but this is

really great um I really appreciate you coming out thanks this is so fun yeah cool see you next [Music] time