I sold my startup for $8M. Then built 5 more making $400k+/month.

The best founder I know all have one thing in common. They failed hard before they won. And Tibo is not an exception.

they won. And Tibo is not an exception.

He failed for four years before something clicked. Two years later, he

something clicked. Two years later, he sold two startup for $8 million. And

quickly after his exit, he built five new startup that are now making multiple six figure a months. In this

conversation, Tibo walked me through exactly what changed between the version of him that kept failing. I was doing everything [music] I could to just feel

good at a family dinner to boost my ego >> and a version of him that couldn't stop winning.

>> I think in 2 weeks we got from 3K in month revenue [music] to 20K.

>> So if like me you want to understand how success works, this episode is for you.

>> Tibo, you failed for 4 years. Then after

that you built two startup that you exit for eight million.

Then you became a dad twice and you did it again. You built five startup that now making more than six

figures a month with different co-makers. So my question is what is the

co-makers. So my question is what is the mental shift that changed everything from Tibo who failed to Tibo who did all

this amazing thing business-wise?

>> That's that's such a good question. like

the I think um I think the one thing that I was doing before is I was doing everything I could to just feel good at

a family dinner to boost my ego. Like do

do you like do you see this moment where you have all the family there and it sounds so good if you can say that hey

I'm I'm managing 20 people uh it's such a good startup I've just raised VC money everything is is going in the right

direction I feel good about that the issue with that is that you like you boost your ego it seems to be working very well People are so impressed about

what you are doing, but the truth behind that is that you just you're not earning money like nothing really works behind the scene. Like there's no there's no

the scene. Like there's no there's no client, there is no uh there's no like real traction. And so everything shift

real traction. And so everything shift when I just got back to startuping in 2021. And this time I was like no

2021. And this time I was like no employee, no VC money, just us together

with my co-founder and trying to u get a decent revenue like not not chasing the next Facebook just trying to make a good living out of the product we're

building. And it honestly it changed

building. And it honestly it changed everything.

It's funny because I had this conversation with Dimitro about exactly the same thing that sometimes you build to prove and sometime you build to just for yourself

like you know just to make money and be free and not to show to other people that is like maybe your family or anyone around you and you just build for

yourself and it finally works. So this

is what happened for you.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Definitely 100%.

>> And you started uh Tweet Hunter and Taplio I think almost at the same times with your co-founder. I want to ask you this

co-founder. I want to ask you this question first because then we'll come back to you always working with someone else. How did you find this co-founder?

else. How did you find this co-founder?

>> It's funny. It's it's actually the same co-founder I was failing with before.

like we um I had um I have a an engineering degree and so just after my engineering degree I went to a business school to try to uh learn how to create

a startup.

the the like this program was not incredible honestly. But the the one

incredible honestly. But the the one thing that was uh amazing about this program is that I met this co-founder

and he is a super talented marketing guy. Um he used to run ads in a small

guy. Um he used to run ads in a small agency in Canada. Um and so we did a lot together. We did this first startup that

together. We did this first startup that that totally failed. And when we got back together in 2021, we had this crazy challenge where we're trying to like

ship create and ship one new product every week until something stick. And we

failed like I think eight nine products didn't really go that far and tweet hunter was like the 11th product out of this series and it it just it took off

very fast.

And what do you think is the difference between the product you were building before and Tweet Hunter and Tlio? Like

you say that you were building them to prove something and then you build a product to make profit. But what do you think is the real big difference between the two?

I think with Tweet Hunter, I was I was trying like it's I was trying to build something for myself as a user. Like I I had I I was I

was realizing that Twitter at the time was the acquisition channel that got me my first user for pretty much every single one of my products. And so I I

was really invested in in uh in Twitter.

Like I wanted to grow an audience on Twitter. Uh it was something that was

Twitter. Uh it was something that was really like like I I wanted to spend like I wanted to commit on that platform

and I was trying some hacks like I was I was trying to download like tons of viral tweets. I was playing with the

viral tweets. I was playing with the API. I was trying to find patterns with

API. I was trying to find patterns with the viral tweets. And at the time, I don't know if you recall that, but that was the very early days of GPT3

um which was gated like it was hard to get access. I finally got access and I

get access. I finally got access and I started um like playing with the API, analyzing tweet, trying to cluster the

tweet, trying to categorize them. Uh

like I I I remember I was trying to understand if each tweet was somewhat um startup related and just by doing that I

was able to do like to build this library of viral tweets talking about startup and it was it was just like like

CLI based like like I was on the terminal just seeing the tweets and just that it was super helpful to come up with uh very interesting things to talk

about like your your brain does connection between the contents. So just

by looking at viral tweets, you can then come up with super interesting content uh and and and I was posting them. It

worked. And so by doing something for myself first, I was able to build something useful which then uh became a product.

And was it useful for both of the co-founder or only you? Like what was the I don't know what was your task and what

was your co-founder task?

Um so I was definitely the um the developer. So I was I was playing with

developer. So I was I was playing with um um with the API. I was prototyping

things and um very often I was uh the guy bringing the ID like and I'm I'm not like sending the ID on Slack talking

about that and and then do the prototype. I'm more like I have an idea

prototype. I'm more like I have an idea I will not talk about it. I will build the prototype right away. Uh, and like

six to eight hours later, I will send the the prototype to my co-founder and ask him like, "Hey, what do you think

about that?" And I and I remember that

about that?" And I and I remember that at at the like at the very early days, he was not really seeing the the

potential. But like

potential. But like two or three days passed, I updated a few things because I really wanted to go with this product and he finally like he

he was seeing it. He was seeing the the value. He was he started using it a

value. He was he started using it a little bit. I improved the algorithm

little bit. I improved the algorithm behind it and yeah it it became very useful for him too. like it it was it was able he was able to write good tweets with with uh with Tweet Hunter

too like at the very early days. Just

for people to understand at this time at the very very early day, Tweet Hunter was basically a search bar

where you could just write something like marketing or startup and it was then displaying a list of viral tweet to get inspiration from. So it was

incredibly simple, incredibly like what it was a one feature product basically.

>> Was that the MVP? Did you launch like that or did you launch later?

>> Yeah. Yeah, we we we launched like that like we we went live on on Twitter and Reddit with just a one feature product.

>> That's crazy. It it seemed very small at the time, but behind the scene, we had this entire algorithm categorizing and

clustering tweets with AI. Like at at the time, AI was not very good. Uh many

people was were trying to generate stuff with AI and not a lot of people were uh doing the like using GP3 to analyze

content. I think we were uh quite early

content. I think we were uh quite early with that and it was it was working very well.

>> I think you were definitely early because when I discovered Tweet Hunter I didn't even know about AI. [laughter]

So yeah, you definitely early and you launched that product you made I think um you went up to 3,000 a month like 3,000 MR with your co-founder only right

or a little bit more.

>> Yep.

And then you did the >> Yeah, tell me.

>> Yeah, pretty much that.

>> Then you did the famous GK Marina launch. And it's funny because I was

launch. And it's funny because I was telling you before is that I didn't really know you were behind Twitter because for me it was GK Molina was the

the founder of Tweet Hunter and then I heard about you when you actually exit and then I dig into it and I understood the whole strategy behind it and I loved

it. So you basically did um partnership

it. So you basically did um partnership with GK Molina who was back in the day he's still huge but I remember back in the day he was really huge and really

powerful on Twitter. It was exploding and you did this uh partnership with him for the GK Molina GK Molina launch. Can

you explain a little bit more about that?

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's very funny because we we had no intention in uh going with with like going this direction but I

think we were between one to 2K in monthly revenue. I was just like

monthly revenue. I was just like reaching out to big influencers quite randomly and and and I remember that

this guy like GK Marina he reacted in a very unexpected way like he he just replied okay I want in and I I didn't fully understood what what it meant but

we we talked a lot and he said yeah this is this is exactly the methodology that I'm praising in my course in my Twitter

course. So,

course. So, I love the approach. Uh, and I want I I don't want to just promote it. I want to be in as a co-founder and I want to to

build that with you. Um, it was complicated at first because I already had a marketing co-founder. So, we were

afraid that it would be some kind of um like double like to to have two people doing the same thing in the team. Uh but

we find an agreement. Um GK Molina got up to 25% of the products. Uh so it was like a a super well integrated partnership. Like

he he really like got big shares like 25% out of a 3% team is is quite big in my opinion.

But it worked incredibly well. Like we

worked together in staff mode for like two months. We improved many things. Uh

two months. We improved many things. Uh

we built an entire uh Twitter scheduleuler just out of this inspiration feature. Um

and in September 2021, we like GK Molina organized his own launch out of the product. And just this launch, I think

product. And just this launch, I think in two weeks, we got from 3K in monthly revenue to 20K. So like 70k in monthly

revenue of addition. And what's what's even crazier is that I anticipated that this launch went very well, but a lot of

the people would churn and then we would have like a um a downtrend from this launch and had to work things out. But

like it it really didn't happen like that.

We got many many people on board and from that launch we grew consistently 20% month over month until uh I know

like something like from 20 to 200k per month over a year and a half.

So yeah, it's it it worked crazy well.

[snorts] >> It did. And I think what you did really well, and I think maybe you didn't know it yet when you did this partnership

with GK Molina, but you basically used the make money um marketing to actually sell. At least that's what GK Molina did

sell. At least that's what GK Molina did because he has he had this course and he was talking about the fact that Tweet Hunter was helping him to make money and

it was true because I used myself Twitter for a while and I made six figures on Twitter selling my own product and a big part of it was thanks

to Tweetunter back in the day because of all the automation on the autodm that you add the retweet like everything was actually an amazing product and I think

that I see that a lot now people who went who were selling info product before about make money and now they switch to SAS and they start to sell

their SAS with the make money marketing.

Do you see that as well?

Yeah, it's it it feels very strange to me because um like the when you start with a new product, you

in have a very like surface layer approach where you just say Twitter is here to give you inspiration and come up

with better contents. Like that's that's very surface layer. Um it's featurebased marketing. and and that that was our

marketing. and and that that was our initial approach and one thing that I learned a lot with enter and tapio and then that I I'm applying right now on

all my new product like super x and and the other stuff is that you can go much further like what's what's the benefits

behind those feature and this this inspiration layer is going to help you come up with better content better content is going to help you gets

more uh followers and have a better personal brand. But this it's also at

personal brand. But this it's also at the service of having a successful business and in the end making more money. And

[clears throat] in the end that's what people want like out of Twitter in the end what you want is have a more successful business and

and earn more money. And by by embracing that approach and just changing a little bit our marketing, it worked like 10 times more.

>> Yeah, it was exactly that. Getting more

leads, getting more sales, getting Yeah.

more money at the end. Well, I think you did amazing with this. And well, GK Marina was probably a really good partnership for you. And then you continued

with I think what you called it is like the influencer flywheel when you did that with like other people giving them equity like Danco. How did you came up

with that and how did it works?

>> So we we did different things like um first of all it works so well with GK Molina. And when we launched Tapio, we

Molina. And when we launched Tapio, we tried to replicate this exact approach and uh we we searched for and we we found an influencer like a LinkedIn

influencer to partner with to build together. But at the same time uh we did

together. But at the same time uh we did like like you said like we we created a

small group of I I think it was 15 Twitter influencer who would get.1%

of Twitter like meaning.1%

of um profits and.1% of the exits of Twitter um and this group would

um help us promote, improve, provide feedback and just help us grow Tweet Hunter.

Which mean like at at every new launch what that we would have at at every new feature announcement, we would have this group of 15 very high caliber uh Twitter

influencers that would help us share the words. And it worked. It worked very

words. And it worked. It worked very well to make this happen. It was it was u not that easy to be honest because at the time when we when we did that

Twitter was starting to be quite big. I

think it was at 30k per like revenue per month. Uh but it's not crazy like it it

month. Uh but it's not crazy like it it was not the like not the reference on on Twitter. So we made it incredibly easy

Twitter. So we made it incredibly easy for them to say yes. Like we said, we would give you 0.1% of the products

in exchange. We would love if you talk

in exchange. We would love if you talk about us. We would love if you uh

about us. We would love if you uh provide feedback, but you the contract would not

uh like make you have to do it like you would have no obligation at all, but we would love if you do it. And so pretty

much uh 80% of the people we reached out to said yes and we were able to to create this group.

>> Is this something that you are using now for your new product? Did you actually like replicate that again? No.

>> So I I I replicate the um influencer maker strategy with every single one of my products. Um but it's

it's a one relationship. uh and like with uh the difference that I'm now the creator and I'm working with a a maker

developer. Um but I didn't replicate

developer. Um but I didn't replicate this group of people. It's it's

something that I'm still thinking about.

Like I really want to do something like this, but I find it incredibly hard to do it to sustain it. And when you exit

or when you have to pay out profits, it's it's it's again something very hard to organize. And so

to organize. And so for now, I I decided that I'm just missing the tools. It's it's really a shame that uh crypto had this crypto and

NFTs has this very bad reputation because I thought it would be the perfect tool to do that at scale. Uh but

yeah, now it just it's screaming scam.

So I'm I'm not doing anything like that.

>> What was the hardest part about building Tweet Enter?

>> The what?

>> The hardest part like the most difficult >> the hardest thing about it.

>> That's that's a good question. I think I think one of the hardest is navigating the Twitter and X transition. Uh so I I

don't know if you remember that but uh we were building Twitter and at the same time Elon Musk was taking over Twitter and not nothing happened in the first

six months but then very recently they they decided to uh basically transition from a free API to a very

very expensive one and just from one day to another we had to pay 42k per month just to use the API as we were using it before.

And the crazy part is that we were we were um we were okay with that. Like we

were one of the lucky players on the scene which would be able to afford like that that 42k per month.

But it was crazy hard to find the way to pay. And so I I remember that one day

pay. And so I I remember that one day they just cut us out like for 48 hours we were not able to pay and to use the

API. So all our user was just cut out of

API. So all our user was just cut out of of Twitter. There was they they were not

of Twitter. There was they they were not able to post. Our competitor was was playing on that saying hey we had the API just come come to us. Uh it's it's

going to be better on on our side. It

was incredibly hard to navigate to find the right person. Every time I was reaching out to my previous contact at Twitter, I would just learn that they

got fired and that uh they was just not not here anymore. So very hard to navigate.

>> You um build in public. You are on X yourself because you used Twitter of course and now you have quite a lot of

followers. you are now in the part of

followers. you are now in the part of like I am the content creator, I'm the influencer in a way and then I build with other maker. I just want to go back to

>> just one thing about it because I'm I'm not using Twe Hunter anymore because like since since I it got acquired since I I left it. It really

looks like the new owner is is not spending uh much time on Twitter. Like

they they they made it very clear that their focus is Tapio. And so Twitter got um it is in my opinion slowly dying. And

so I I built basically the new tweeter which is called super X. Uh I think it's getting much more powerful than what was

and so this is the tool that I'm using every day right now.

>> Yeah, I well I have I use SuperX myself and I can tell that yeah this is definitely the next one for me and the one with the most potential in the

future. Um

future. Um so you are on the influencer uh side now which is like you actually push the product and you build with other com

like Rob which who you build super X with. But I just want to go back to one

with. But I just want to go back to one thing is that uh maybe some people are are watching it and see you with all these

followers right now but I remember a time where you were working so hard to grow an audience and you were making

like huge thread about other people. you

were making a lot of content to actually push uh on X and what was your strategy back in the day

and I think my question is like what was the strategy back in the day and how much did you work to get where you are now?

Uh so that's that's a very good question like I for me honestly I'm I'm a developer like my I really think that I

am in in a lot of um a lot of ways so I'm not the extreme uh extrovert people that most

influencers are like I for me writing is hard writing on on X is like it's it's painful And something that I did and that worked

very well for me is is really about consistency. Like I'm I'm not the best

consistency. Like I'm I'm not the best writer, but what I know how to do is just show up every day, be nice with people, talk about something. Sometimes

it's going to flop, but at least I'm I'm here every day uh showcasing my work, talking with people and piece after piece

is working. Like a lot of a lot of

is working. Like a lot of a lot of things that I did are not working. Like

I remember even even after I reached 100k followers, I did threads and long post in which I put a lot of energy and they got

something like two likes. It it happens like it's and it's going to happen for 99% of people out there. But the one thing that I kept doing is just showing

up every day.

>> Yeah. And you delivered. I really

remember like the kind of content you did at that time and you were really delivering daily and weekly and like to the quality of the content. So I think

you earned it for for sure. You [snorts]

continued building after that. I I want to go back to the exit later but now I just want to continue on the fact that you work with people and you like to

work with people and now you are working with co-makers. Uh there is Rob there is

with co-makers. Uh there is Rob there is few other ones u which who you built these five startup how do you find them

and what kind of profile you're looking for?

>> Um so f finding them is really about being here on on X and talking with people. It's it's crazy that um it was

people. It's it's crazy that um it was not the case at first, but right now after the exits, I get very often people coming to me uh showcasing their

products and they don't necessarily think about that. But if if the product is very well built like and and I see

the potential, I would just like shift the conversation and ask, hey, do you want to like work together in some ways?

Uh maybe we can we can find an agreements.

[clears throat] Something that I do a lot is not try to push my ideas but work on

others people projects. And I I I realize that it's it's working very well because if

if you try to hire a developer to work on your project, the motivation was the the motivation will would probably go

down at one point.

But if you reach out on an existing project, it's his ID. Like the the guy is going to be crazy motivated no matter

what because it's it's his ID. So what

what I try to do like my my framework is try to find someone with an interesting

ID uh a somewhat good execution but the guy is stuck at 200 300 of revenue per

month uh without clearly knowing how to get out of of this zone. And so I John uh we just try to revamp the product, try to change like core things that

would match what I think uh people would want. Try to work with a few number of

want. Try to work with a few number of user like 10 to 20 people for a few weeks, few months. see uh what makes the

product sticky uh what makes the product stand out and and then go broad like use use my

audience, use my newsletter, uh use uh the things I know about SEO, about ads and about everything else to just grow the product.

It's really interesting because um I'm not a developer myself and I really want like when I saw you doing it, when I saw John Rush doing it,

[clears throat] I really felt like this was something I would like to do. And then I tried like since the beginning of the year, I tried few

times and I failed. Like the only money I made was I think we made like $150 total with the app. And I think I

figured out what you just said is that I think it's better to work on the product of the dev or like a dev who already built the product and then come and

bring your source on top of that. And

that's what I'm doing now. And I hope this is the key because this kind of partnership I think is really appealing for a lot of people. Uh there is dev who

are amazing at product but struggle with distribution and there is people like me who love distribution and are not able

to code an entire app. So what's except the partnership, what other thing do you think is like mandatory to

make it work?

>> Yeah, that's a good question. Um the the thing is I think there's just I think there's one big thing and hundred of of tiny stuff. Uh the the hund of tiny

tiny stuff. Uh the the hund of tiny stuff is just executing properly. have a

good design. Uh like uh work your conversation rates uh do the like do the onboarding flow right fix the ch like

those stuff they are very hard to to to share because it's really hundreds or thousands of very tiny stuff in your apps that makes the experience good. But

I think the the one big thing is talk to people more. It's it's really about that. But something that I did

about that. But something that I did which worked very well in my case is pretty much for all my product until 10k

of month monthly revenue. The the

support button in the app is redirecting to my own ex DMs and so when someone has a problem they can just reach out to me

and we start a conversation right that that way. What what matters is

that way. What what matters is it it's not understanding what what like the button is broken or they would want this color to be like this. What what

matters the most is understanding the core workflow of your

user and why your product fits in this workflow or why it it doesn't fit. A

good example is outrank. like outrank is our uh allin-one SEO software.

It started as a blog post generator. So

the the initial ID of Eugene, my co-founder, it was just a blog post generator where you just input the topic and it would

generate a blog post. Then you can edit it and then uh publish it. Um the

quality was quite good honestly. Like

that's that's why I joined the project.

It was well built, but something like you had absolutely no reason to come back to the tool because it's it's very

hard like people people don't have the discipline to say, "Hey, I'm going to go back on the tool every day and do the

work of creating a new blog post." They

just don't have this discipline. So we

totally shift the the way the tool was working.

Instead of you having to come to the software to just do the work of creating the blog post, the software would make

it automatically for you every day no matter what. Because the the stickiness

matter what. Because the the stickiness was like we we would would shift the way it worked to put the pressure on black.

If you do not come to the software, no matter what, it's going to be published anyway. So, you can come and you can

anyway. So, you can come and you can review what's going to get published, but if you don't, it's going to be published anyway. People that way would

published anyway. People that way would be forced to come back to see what was happening in the software and that drastically improve retention and reduce

churn.

>> Does it search the keyword for the users like how does it work exactly?

>> Yeah. Yeah, definitely. We we went from just being a blog post generator to being a like an all-in-one that would understand what's your product is about,

understand like search for competitors, so generate keywords with high volume and low uh difficulty to rank. [snorts]

Then it would rank those keywords, work on the more relevant ones and every day it would just create a new blog post to shift this key like to to match the

keyword and it will automatically publish the blog post on uh your CMS. That way for like every single one of my

five projects, Outr Rank is delivering one new blog post per day on all of them without me having to do anything. That just feels

crazy to me.

>> What I love about that is that you targeted SAS founder like founder in general and SAS I always saw that SAS has have a lot of backlink always like SAS website.

>> Yeah. They always have a lot of backlink which makes the website pretty powerful and if you add content on it of course it will work straight away. But if you compare to like if you choose a totally

different field you will have different results and probably like different case studies. But I thought it was pretty

studies. But I thought it was pretty smart to to do that because yeah the results I think are way faster on a SAS website than any other one.

Yeah, you have you have a good point here. But uh and that's that's one of

here. But uh and that's that's one of our difficulty by the way. Um so wait, what what what makes out even more powerful is that we like we cross-link

our user together. So if we have like 10 people talking about similar topic, we are able to backlink between each other and so they build much more authority.

But what one thing that is hard is when someone join outrank with like a a horse related business or

a a bakery business.

It's it's very not likely that we have other people talking about those topics in in our user base. So it's very hard for us to create backlinks for those people. And so that's that's something

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back to the episode. You have currently five startup. Rivid, fever, super x, outrank,

startup. Rivid, fever, super x, outrank, postinker.

Outrank is I think the >> sorry >> five public businesses.

>> Public outrank is probably the one that bring the most money, right? Because it's like I didn't follow the last one, but you

are over 100k a month.

Um, how much are you now?

>> No, I rank so rank has uh crossed 200k per month, >> but it's not it's not my product that

generate the most money on.

Revit is >> Revit is.

>> Yeah, >> that's really interesting. Can you share or it's like confidential? It's

something that I I don't really communicate on uh because there just too much competition on on this space. But

yeah, Revit is uh is making a little bit more than our company.

>> That's insane.

I think honestly Tibo I'm I will tell you now I'm impressed by what you did because you built something that you sold for like 8 million and then you did it again

a few times and you make crazy number and you know I've been an SEO for a while and outrank is like a really competitive niche because any SEO wants

to do this kind of tool and I see that in France I see that also in US and you killed It's why you are not an SEO even if you have like SEO skills and I think

like just what you did in like different niches rever super X outrank poster

it's amazing why it will be hard to answer this one but why do you think you succeed so much recently?

Uh so I think uh so first of all thank you very much it's very nice like I I love the kind words uh it feels amazing

honestly it it feels I'm I'm impressed by the results uh feels crazy to me that I'm reaching that that levels um

I think like outrank is a nice example um I feel like we have been able to

bring together some very different uh skill sets like the the SEO skill sets at the same time as uh being a a

developer and at the same time being good with socials.

It was able to mix together a few things that you need to just create a good product while understanding how SEO

works while being able to promote it in the right way to uh kick off the network effects that Art Frank was was needed.

I think it's pretty rare to have all those things working together and I think that what uh is is working in my case.

>> Did you need all of these products yourself? Because

yourself? Because >> well we talked about that with you needed it outrank. I think you needed it for your product but did you need it all?

>> Honestly, yeah. It's I'm I'm using myself every single one of my products and so it's you you will have to see my

my Slack uh my Slack workspace to to it's crazy like every day I'm sending tons of feedback to the team. Hey, this

uh this is nice. I love how you ship this or uh this is this is crazy. I love

that. But I I would put it like this uh in the product. I would change that. The

flow on this is not working. There's a

little friction here. Um that's uh I would I would I would hate like I would I would love if this disappear. My point

here is something that I learned is that the quality of product in my opinion is getting higher and higher thanks to AI.

And so you have to raise your standards like you people want very highend product right now and I'm working with

the team every day to improve the tiny stuff that could make people go crazy just by doing that by just trying to

make the perfect products uh it I think it unlocks crazy growth.

>> How do you manage that? I'll

>> continue.

[laughter] >> Uh, that's a good question. How do I manage that? Uh, I

manage that? Uh, I I don't know. Like I just for me it's easy. I work from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.

easy. I work from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m.

I'm just I'm sit at my desk and I just work. I I don't do calls. I think I'm

work. I I don't do calls. I think I'm I'm uh getting back a lot of my time by doing that. Like absolutely no course

doing that. Like absolutely no course with the team. So everything is written.

it's here. You can just get back to it.

It takes time. Uh it takes time, but but yeah, I'm I'm doing the work, I guess.

Like I have this discipline where I'm I don't have to, but I'm doing it anyway.

Like I do the the feedback, the the constant communication with the users, never ending. [snorts]

never ending. [snorts] >> Where do you fail in life? Because

[clears throat] there is this thing that you know if you look at um you know this kind of like um octagon of power in your life like let's say there is

relationship uh there is your health your wealth um all the thing if you pull on one side there is always something

that will get um lower like let's say you work a lot then your relationship will be hard your

will uh get um well you will not be healthy anymore whatever I don't know to talk anymore but what is the thing that you can't do or can you manage to do

everything right now >> um that's a very good question because I I'm asking this question actually uh quite often and I think something that

I'm not very good at is um being a being a good friend I guess like I there's there's so many people that I absolutely love. Like I would I

would love to see them more, but I'm I'm very bad at um uh I don't know how to say like I'm I'm very bad at just

reaching out to old friends and just keep the conversation going. Like I

there's just tons like we talked about that I I was in Bali and in Bali I met some very incredible people like so so nice people. I'm very bad at just

nice people. I'm very bad at just maintaining this relationship, just saying hi, taking up some news. And

yeah, that's something that I really want to get better at.

>> And do you think if you get better at that, something else will uh get bad?

>> I have no idea. [laughter] I have no idea. But yeah, you you are right. Like

idea. But yeah, you you are right. Like

I'm I'm focusing on my uh family and work right now. Uh and um many other

things are going on the like going under not not going under but like uh like I would say I'm not focusing on

them.

>> You had at one point seven figure on your account, right? Because you did the exit. um you probably got a big part of

exit. um you probably got a big part of it even if there was like this two years that you still had to work for it. How

did it feel because I don't know where you come from familywise like your the revenue you had before but how does it feel to have so much money at one point in your life?

>> Um so that's that's a very good question. That's something that uh

question. That's something that uh people are very not used to and like I was um I had no idea how it would make feel and

and I remember that um so I was in Thailand before Bali and I met with Peter Levels Peter Levelio on on Twitter

and he told me that it's uh much more healthy to get a nice

revenue stream of money growing than a a big bunch of money at once.

And I think I didn't really understand and I didn't really listen at him at the time, but I think he's crazy, right?

like it's when you when you get this big bunch of money at once. Um you can either go crazy and spend it like buy

the Lambo or just I don't know go crazy with it. That's not me. And I'm more in

with it. That's not me. And I'm more in this second part where I don't do anything with that. Pretty much nothing.

It's I I I find it like I [clears throat] would feel even guilty if I spend money that I'm not earning.

So right now what what I what I find much more healthy is trying to spend to not spend more money that I get on a

monthly basis. And so that's why I got

monthly basis. And so that's why I got back to work and I got to I got back to creating new product. Uh I'm trying to

raise the to increase the money flow the the revenue stream that I'm getting right now and I allow myself to [snorts]

spend as much as I am getting every month. I don't know if that makes sense.

month. I don't know if that makes sense.

>> Yeah. No, it makes sense totally because I I [clears throat] did an exit in July.

Not that much, like not as much as you, but I totally get that. Like right now, I will do anything to get back to having a cash flow, like you know, having a

steady income uh coming every month. And

I think exactly the same about putting money aside, you know, [clears throat] S&P 500, whatever, but make my money that way instead of waiting for the exit

because I waited for my exit too long.

And honestly, it wasn't that great. How

did you feel about exiting like the feeling after >> honestly? Yeah, I

>> honestly? Yeah, I so right now I kind of work with a new rule which is no exits because because

it it really didn't feel good like for for many reason and I really don't blame the the buyer. This is totally not their

fault, but because Tweet Hunter and Tapio had um quite a high churn and there was

like a very high platform risk with the product. Because of that uh most of the

product. Because of that uh most of the deal was earnout based meaning that we would get something like 25% of the

money up front and 75% of of the money we would get it by achieving some revenue milestone over two years

and and because of that we insisted on being extremely hands-on on the product that on on keeping the control during

the two years and because of that um I feel like we didn't get the help from the buyer with the promotion of the

products and that increased the pressure of on on on me like I because because I wanted to achieve those revenue milestone

um I put a lot of pressure on myself to together and because we were we were not getting the help from the buyer. I felt

like salty like I I I felt I felt bad like I wanted to I was I was mad at them.

I really think it was not their fault because we were the one insisting on keeping the control and I think that was preventing them from uh helping us. Um

and I think that's why I I feel bad about this acquisition.

Something that I think I would do if if I ever get acquired again, I would really insist on no earnout like no very

limit very limited transition period 3 month max I guess >> and [clears throat] after these two

years um so you reached almost the milestone uh you reach another one you were not working for tweet enter

Tapio anymore. What did you do? Like,

Tapio anymore. What did you do? Like,

how did it feel to have nothing to do anymore?

>> It didn't happen. Honestly, it didn't happen because I I acquired time frame before the end of the

earnouts.

>> So, I started working on new products before I even got released from my commitments. So, I'm I'm a little bit

commitments. So, I'm I'm a little bit sad about that. Like I wanted to leave these moments where I have nothing to do uh being very peaceful and like have

have real real holidays like real vacations without nothing to do but that never happened.

>> Can you take vacation instantly?

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's it's um so not being the not being the only developer like and working with co maker who are the developers makes me able to

like have more uh days off. I can take a week off and I would still try to connect on Slack and just have a look at what's happening but honestly it's I

feel much less pressure than I used to on on Twitter before.

>> What's missing for you to be like >> [clears throat] >> um let's say not at the head of the business anymore but as almost a

shareholder you know that your company is running without you what's missing you think >> I have no idea like honestly it's I'm

I'm reaching the the business is getting very big right now uh I feel like I feel I don't have the right people

around around me to advise me on what to do. Um I I feel like I'm reaching a

do. Um I I feel like I'm reaching a point a revenue size which I never reached before and so I feel a little

bit lost in what I should do. Um I'm

still showing up every day and I still do the work. like I still get my hands dirty and I don't know if this is

sustainable and maybe it is maybe I still need to do this work and just doing the work at 10 million revenue per year is just the same as doing it at 1

million per year. Maybe it is. I don't

know yet. But that's what I'm doing right now. if I need to change something

right now. if I need to change something in my workflow.

Well, I don't know what and so I'm not doing it right now.

>> Are you ready to get as [clears throat] serious as getting executive for your company like a CFO, CEO, CTO?

>> I have no idea. Honestly, I I've uh it's it's a very good question. So,

it's funny because when we got acquired by Lampire, like the the team behind Lemnist,

I I saw that happening at Lampire, like uh Guiam, the founder and CEO um hired someone who would then become the the

new CEO. And so I I saw this transition

new CEO. And so I I saw this transition and it happened in very very nice way.

So I don't know if at one point I should go through that or if um

well the the structure we have right now like being one guy I I'm the distribution guy and I'm working with five different co co-maker who are uh

the the technical guys it's very unique I think it's very very unique and so I I don't know I I think it would be very

hard for me to find someone who would be able to replace me.

>> So, no ID. [laughter]

>> No, because I I'm asking you that because I I met someone in um in Shang Mai and he's he's basically

um in affiliate SEO, but he's also building a lot of B2C app. and he said that the thing that changed everything for him and abled him to step back was

to hire a CEO and a CFO. And he said like the day he had that like someone who take care of the team and someone who take care of

the finances, he was able to actually step back and see his business growing while not being here every day. And when

he told me that like he has like 140 person working for him right now. And

when he when he told me that and when I saw his lifestyle he's not lying. He's

really not lying. He has a lot of time on his side now. And he used to be 100% in the work every day doing the task doing here every day in the office. He

said honestly if one day you arrive at that point that you make enough money to hire a really good CFO, really good CEO

and why not a CEO, do it because you will be able to take holiday and work um above your business seeing everything happening and you could help it even

more. So yeah, that's why I'm asking you

more. So yeah, that's why I'm asking you that because I think you are at that point where you will be able to do that.

Well, maybe maybe I maybe I need to talk with this guy. [laughter]

>> Yeah, >> as I said, I think I I I feel a little bit lost uh with this topic. I have no idea if this needs to happen now or if I

needs to to grow uh 10 times more. Um,

every day I keep receiving DMs from people who has who have very nice products and want to partner with me to

like grow those products and I I have to decline most of them because I have like five project right now. They are

growing. they are taking more and more time from me and so I cannot see a way

to um to do more right now. So I need to find a way to change the model like to

to be able to take more projects and help them in a in another way or um think the model differently.

That's that's a pendic work.

>> What is your goal?

[snorts] >> I think like I growth growth is something that uh motivates me like there is I don't have a very specific revenue

uh number in mind. I just see that the business is growing right now and I just want to continue the business to grow.

That's it. So I I want I think my goal is just to build a sustainable and growing business.

That's it.

>> I see. Yeah, that's enough.

Um a question I wanted to ask you is um what is the mental block that you actually broke in the past few

years that help you get where you are now? like really a mental block like something inside you.

Um it's so I I think I understand why you would ask this question but I don't think I don't think I was

feeling blocked by anything. Um on the on the contrary I think what's what's worked for me is that or maybe maybe this is the

understanding that I unblocked which is when you have an idea you can just build it and like I I'm not I'm not

a web developer by uh training like I I got into web development very uh late in my life actually pretty much with Tweet

Hunter Um what I realized at that time is that [clears throat] when you have an ID you can like today especially with AI when you have an ID you can just build

it very fast it got very very easy to build things and that that's what I would share with every

I think it's 10 times more efficient when you have an idea to quickly build it in two days and put it in the hands of people who are relevant to use this

ID and give you feedback.

That way instead of showing it to your mom or dad, you will learn like 10 times more

knowledge and time by showing your ID instead of just showing a piece of paper with your ID.

>> That's the perfect way to end this [clears throat] podcast. Thank you,

Tibo. It was uh really nice to have this huge conversation with you again. Really

impressed about what you built. I wish

you the best for what's happening. I

think you are in a good direction. So,

let's see where you go.

>> Thank you very much for your It was It was amazing talking to you today. Thank

you.