If You're a Creator, You Must Start a Business in 2026 ft. Ali Abdaal

And what people fail to realize is that if you want to make $100,000, it is actually so much easier to sell 10 things for $10,000 than it is to sell 10,000 things for $10. Today, we're joined by Ali Abdaal, doctor turned eight-figure entrepreneur and one of the internet's most insightful voices when it comes to building a business around your personal brand. Ali went from filming

study tips in his dorm room to running a multi-million dollar company built on systems, clarity, and lifestyle design. And today, he breaks down the blueprint he wishes he started with. If I were starting out today, I would start out with

started with. If I were starting out today, I would start out with a very clear niche, figure out like, okay, who is the person that I'm helping and what am I helping them with? And then I would figure out an offer, which is what is the core product I'm actually trying to sell. Ali's entire blueprint flips the way most creators think about business.

to sell. Ali's entire blueprint flips the way most creators think about business.

It's not about posting more and it's not about going viral. It's about solving one problem for one person with one great offer and getting paid accordingly. Conversations

are what leads to conversions. It's so unlikely that someone will just watch your content and then magically pay you a lot of money. You have to actually have conversations with people. And so at the start, you have to do things that don't scale. Contrary to popular belief, adding more modules to your course doesn't increase the

scale. Contrary to popular belief, adding more modules to your course doesn't increase the value. And Ali explains why simple, transformation-focused offers drive the most revenue. You actually want

value. And Ali explains why simple, transformation-focused offers drive the most revenue. You actually want less stuff. If you're helping a business owner make more money, the less

less stuff. If you're helping a business owner make more money, the less they have to do to make that money, the more they will pay you. In this episode, we unpack the business model Ali would start in 2026. And

you. In this episode, we unpack the business model Ali would start in 2026. And

the exact steps to going from posting content to life-changing revenue. Let's get into it.

Ali, what is a lifestyle business and why is 2026 the best year to do it? Oh, I love it. A lifestyle business is a business that serves your lifestyle

it? Oh, I love it. A lifestyle business is a business that serves your lifestyle rather than the other way around. With a lot of businesses, you know, you trade your nine to five for a 24 seven. And a lot of entrepreneurs have this dream of like starting a business that gives them freedom. But

then, you know, the difficulty of finding clients, getting people to actually give you money.

And then if it works, building a team, et cetera, et cetera, all of that kind of stuff can create a lot of pressure to the point that for a lot of entrepreneurs, the business takes over their life rather than facilitates their life.

And so the idea of a lifestyle business, I think I first came across it through the four-hour work week ages ago. But the idea of a lifestyle business is that it is a business where the explicit purpose of it, at least to you, is... to facilitate the kind of life you want to lead. You're

you, is... to facilitate the kind of life you want to lead. You're

not trying to become a zillion dollar company. You're not trying to get people on Mars. You're not trying to change the world or anything like that. You're

Mars. You're not trying to change the world or anything like that. You're

like, I just want a nice, chill, small business that does six figures in profit, maybe low seven figures in profit, and has a very small team, and I can do what I want, and I can take time off when I want, and I'm not trying to make a dent in the universe or anything like that. That's our business. That sounds really nice.

Because I think a lot of times you see people online They're making millions of dollars. They're flexing the cars. They're flexing the lifestyle. And when I originally hear lifestyle

dollars. They're flexing the cars. They're flexing the lifestyle. And when I originally hear lifestyle business, it's like, I want to have this crazy fucking lifestyle. But I love that you're taking kind of like a different approach of... You can make enough money doing what you love. You don't have to burn yourself out. You can do it on your own terms and you can do it around something that you absolutely

love. Yeah, a hundred percent. It's like, I think a lot of people, I think,

love. Yeah, a hundred percent. It's like, I think a lot of people, I think, especially in the U S there's this idea that, you know, especially in the world of like VC funding, a lifestyle business is kind of a slur that like, you know, are you a serious business or are you just a lifestyle business? And a VC wouldn't want to invest in you unless you can become

business? And a VC wouldn't want to invest in you unless you can become a billion dollar company. And so to a to a venture capitalist, someone having a lifestyle business is like, oh, you know, this person's just like phoned it in. They only want a few million in profit. Oh, there's nothing interesting

in. They only want a few million in profit. Oh, there's nothing interesting about that. But for you as the entrepreneur, having a couple million in profit is

about that. But for you as the entrepreneur, having a couple million in profit is fucking sick, right? Like, it's amazing. You can like live the kind of life you want and you've got free time. You don't have to work weekends. You

can pick your kids up from school when you want to. You

can take a day off without asking anyone's permission. That is actually the kind of business I think most people want. But it's not the sort of business that gets airtime in the media or anything like that. You don't hear stories of...

of lifestyle businesses. You don't hear stories of like the local boutique web design firm that has four employees that makes like 2 million a year. Because it's

just not that interesting. You only hear the stories of like, oh my God, this kid dropped out of Stanford to raise $500 million in VC funding for an app that doesn't exist yet. That's so cool. All of

that kind of stuff. That is very sort of anti-lifestyle business. So we

have a group of people now that are listening, they're locked in, they want to do this. What are the most common pitfalls of someone as they go down this route of creating a lifestyle business? You've coached many people on this topic. Like, What are those huge mistakes you keep seeing people making?

this topic. Like, What are those huge mistakes you keep seeing people making?

Yeah, I mean, the main one is in order to have any in order to have any kind of business you need, it's basically a very simple math equation, right? It's like money equals number of customers multiplied by price of the thing, right? So let's say you want to make $100,000. You could sell

thing, right? So let's say you want to make $100,000. You could sell one thing for $100,000. This is often known as having a job. you could sell 10 things for $10,000. You could sell 100 things for 1,000. You could sell 1,000 things for 100, you know, and so on. You get this sort of graph that's sort of like price and people. And so as price goes

up, people goes down. Like you need fewer customers for a higher priced thing. A big mistake people make when trying to start a business

thing. A big mistake people make when trying to start a business is they go too cheap. They think, you know, I thought this back when I was a noob to business as well. They think, well, I can imagine selling something for $1. I can imagine selling something for $10. I can even imagine selling something for $100. But now, $1,000? No, that's too expensive. $10,000? No, you know, I've

never bought anything for $10,000, so I can't imagine selling anything for $10,000. And

what people fail to realize is that if you want to make $100,000, it is actually so much easier to sell 10 things for $10,000 than it is to sell 10,000 things for $10,000. And that is a very counterintuitive thing, which every sort of successful entrepreneur and business coach kind of knows, which is that the volume is the hard part. And finding a small number of customers to

pay you a lot of money is actually way easier and less stressful than finding a large amount of customers to pay you a small amount of money. So

that's the key thing that we take. You know, we've got this program that helps people start lifestyle businesses. And the thing that I keep on hammering to our students again and again is like, find a way to charge at least $2,000 for the thing. Because if you're trying to play the volume game, unless you have a massive audience already, it is very, very hard to have a stress-free lifestyle

business trying to play the volume game. How can someone overcome the limiting belief that they're not worth it? charging a certain amount. I think anybody here is sell something for 2000 or 5000 or $10,000. Like that sounds great. But I

don't know if I have something worth selling that for. Was there a time where you had like those limiting beliefs? And like, how do you how did you overcome those? And how do you teach people to overcome those as well? Yeah,

overcome those? And how do you teach people to overcome those as well? Yeah,

sure. So I can tell you how I overcame them. It initially when I first made my YouTube course back like five years ago, I was gonna sell it for like $200. I was like, I'm going to teach everything I know about YouTube. I'm going to sell it for $200. It's going to be a self-paced

YouTube. I'm going to sell it for $200. It's going to be a self-paced DIY course because online courses, because why not? And it was a conversation with Tiago Forte and David Perel, who at the time, possibly still do, ran like Building a Second Brain and Rite of Passage, which were these like expensive live online courses during, yeah, where you get people together live for a cohort for four

or six weeks. And they basically challenged me to just run the thought experiment.

Ali, you want to charge $200 for this thing. We think you should charge $2,000 for this thing. Hypothetically, if you were to charge $2,000, what would change about how you show up for your students? I'd be like, man, if people are paying $2,000, then that would change everything, right? Because I'm actively invested in their success.

We would have so much more going on. It wouldn't just be a course that they follow and then buy access to and then never actually watch and never actually implement. We'd be giving them feedback on their videos. We'd be hiring

actually implement. We'd be giving them feedback on their videos. We'd be hiring people to help them with whatever they're struggling with. And I'm so glad I followed that advice because in the very first cohort, you know, we made like $300,000, which was like, would have been like 15 years worth of me working as a doctor because I was still working as a doctor at the time. And

the next one, we made like 500k. We've had a couple of million dollar launches for this. And it's all been because we have charged high prices. But

even then, in our case, we haven't been charging nearly high enough because we've Up until recently, the most expensive thing that we've sold was this YouTube course, which we then turned into like a do-it-yourself course for $1,000. And everyone making way more money than we are in the sort of online courses space is selling stuff for like way higher than $1,000. Like $10,000 packages, 20K, 30K. I signed

up to a $68,000 thing recently. I signed up to a $60,000 thing recently. I

signed up for a one-on-one coaching program for $100,000 for the year. You know, the people making this kind of money are selling very high ticket things. So that's sort of been, I think, a mistake on our end is that we have also been pricing our stuff too low, thinking a passive do-it-yourself course is the way to go. But I think increasingly in a world of AI where... Information is

becoming more and more of a commodity. Anyone can learn anything by asking ChatGPT. The

value of a pre-recorded self-paced online course that just has a series of videos is fast dropping to zero, especially because there's all these people that are now releasing fricking six hour long courses on YouTube completely for free. Maybe even former guests of this episode are out there. And it's like, that's the sort of shit that you could previously charge money for. But the free line keeps

on going up. So, you know, more and more stuff is being free. So then

the second part of your question is like, okay, how do we recommend people think about this? I think people have a lot of imposter syndrome around, am I

about this? I think people have a lot of imposter syndrome around, am I worth the X amount of money? Am I worth five grand? And it's about removing your ego from it. And it's not about, are you worth it? It's about, can you deliver a result for someone else where that result is worth way more than five grand to that person? And there's sort of two ways of thinking about

this. There's like the person and then the problem. If the person

this. There's like the person and then the problem. If the person has a lot of money, the same problem is worth a lot more money for them. For example, Esther Perel is a relationship therapist who only works with billionaires.

them. For example, Esther Perel is a relationship therapist who only works with billionaires.

And so she charges a shit ton of money because for a billionaire to save their marriage, it's exactly the same thing that the $10 an hour relationship therapist down the road charges. But because she's targeting billionaires, it's a massive value to them. And so they are paying her like a million quid a year for exactly the same thing. So if the person that you're targeting has

loads of money, then generally it is a lot easier for them to see the value of the thing, which is why it's generally easier to sell to businesses than to normal people. This is difficult for people because people listening to the podcast are probably normal people. They're probably consumers who are used to thinking like normal people rather than thinking like businesses. I guess in your guys' case, it's an

audience of videographers and stuff. And so you guys know that when you pitch something to Nike, you can 10x your pricing and they won't bat an eyelid because because it's freaking Nike. And then the first time you do that, it sort of breaks your brain to be like, whoa, 50 grand was like nothing to them. And 50 grand to me is like my whole year's salary. Holy shit. Or

them. And 50 grand to me is like my whole year's salary. Holy shit. Or

you charge too cheap and they say you're too cheap and they don't go with you. Yeah, exactly. They're like, no, this is so cheap. I can't possibly get a

you. Yeah, exactly. They're like, no, this is so cheap. I can't possibly get a job. I couldn't possibly get the CFO to sign off on this. It's too cheap.

job. I couldn't possibly get the CFO to sign off on this. It's too cheap.

And it makes you realize, holy shit, businesses think about money in a very different way than individuals do. And so that's why generally when I'm coaching people through the process, we're trying to figure out do you have any, or like what preexisting skills do you have? I call these like craft skills or like what preexisting craft skills do you have either personally or professionally that could potentially help a

business? And then the second part of this is what is the problem? Now,

business? And then the second part of this is what is the problem? Now,

it's generally easier to sell things that are helping someone make money or helping someone save money. So we have students in our program that are like, you

save money. So we have students in our program that are like, you know, I help a I help seven-figure course creators increase their close rates by 25% through their sales calls so they make way more money. That's a

very easy offer to sell for like 10, 20 grand. But we also have people that are like, I help working professionals struggling with imposter syndrome overcome their imposter syndrome. that's a hard offer to sell for like thousands of dollars because

imposter syndrome. that's a hard offer to sell for like thousands of dollars because there's no, like, what's the tangible outcome there? I'm like, okay, is it that we help them get a raise? Is we help them get a promotion? Oh,

no, no, no. I couldn't possibly promise that because like, you know, I can't promise that, you know, I can just help them get over imposter syndrome. Bro,

you've got a lot of imposter syndrome yourself. Like let's try and tie it to a tangible outcome that this person would value. And so those are some of the mistakes that we see people making. Choosing a person to target who doesn't have enough money or choosing a problem that's not sufficiently painful or sufficiently tangible to justify a high ticket price. And this is why everyone who's

like, I want to be a mindset coach. I want to be a life coach. I want to be even a productivity coach. You know, I'm the world's most

coach. I want to be even a productivity coach. You know, I'm the world's most followed productivity expert. And it has been hard for us to sell our productivity course because people don't actually want productivity. They want productivity as a vehicle to get them to the thing they actually want, which is to build a successful business or to complete their PhD or to get a promotion at work. The

people want tangible outcomes. And if you're trying to sell the vehicle that gets them there, like productivity or overcome your imposter syndrome or whatever, It's really hard for people to see the value of that, even when you have a massive audience. And

when you're packaging it, you're selling like their actual desired outcome to But when you're actually working with them, I'm sure you're actually teaching them some of the productivity stuff. You're just not selling it that you're going to teach them about the productivity

stuff. You're just not selling it that you're going to teach them about the productivity stuff. Yeah, 100%. So it's sort of like the way we think of building an

stuff. Yeah, 100%. So it's sort of like the way we think of building an offer. So you've got the person and the promise, which is kind of like

offer. So you've got the person and the promise, which is kind of like your niche. I help X type of people solve Y kind of problem, that

your niche. I help X type of people solve Y kind of problem, that sort of thing. Sorry, person and problem. Then you have your promise, which is, you know, in our case, you know, build $100,000 a year lifestyle business in under 12 months. That's like our promise, which then gets people to... want to find

months. That's like our promise, which then gets people to... want to find out more. Or for example, I have a friend, Aman, who has a program that's

out more. Or for example, I have a friend, Aman, who has a program that's sort of land a software engineering internship guaranteed. It's like, okay, that's the promise.

And now people will want to hear about the process when you're like, okay, well, the process is, you know, step one, we're going to help you figure out, we're going to help you optimize your resume. Step, step two, we're going to help you figure out your interviews. Step three, we're going to get you on a call with all these like meta recruiters to do better at lead coding or

whatever the fuck the interview process is. And that's when like, you know, we start to weave in the productivity. In our case, the promise is build $100,000 a year lifestyle business. So we're like, okay, cool. The process is phase one ideation. We're going to help you figure out your niche and your offer. Phase two

ideation. We're going to help you figure out your niche and your offer. Phase two

validation. We're going to help run that offer by like 10 discovery calls and see what happens in the process. We're going to help you build your own productivity system so that you're actually managing your time, energy and focus, et cetera, et cetera. That stuff is in the process. But until you get people to pay

cetera. That stuff is in the process. But until you get people to pay attention with an interesting promise, that solves a clear problem that they have.

They don't give a shit about your process, basically. Drum roll, please. Ali's made a ton of money online. And you know what the easiest way to make money online is? I have a guess, but why don't you tell me? It's Stan,

online is? I have a guess, but why don't you tell me? It's Stan,

brother. That's what I was going to say. Dude, Gary Vee is backing Stan. Now we're backing Stan. It's like shake and bake. It's like salt

Stan. Now we're backing Stan. It's like shake and bake. It's like salt and pepper. I mean, come on. Peanut butter jelly. Yeah. Dan Co, future

and pepper. I mean, come on. Peanut butter jelly. Yeah. Dan Co, future guest of the 505 pod, come out in a few weeks also. Everybody's doing it.

Everyone's doing it, man. They've made over $400 million for creators on Stan. That's

the easiest way. Let me tell you what you can do. Okay. You can

book, like if you're a person who wants to take one-on-one calls, you can do that through Stan. You can sell a digital product. You could sell a course. It's all one link and it sits in your bio. If you're a

course. It's all one link and it sits in your bio. If you're a listener of this podcast, I would argue you're making content. You're trying to build a personal brand. You want to monetize. The place to do it is Stan's store. You're trying to go from rock to boulder. Yeah. That's what you

store. You're trying to go from rock to boulder. Yeah. That's what you guys want to do, right? Absolutely. Okay. And it's one simple link. There's over 80,000 creators right now monetizing on Stan, which is ridiculous. In all honesty, making money online is amazing. amazing. It can feel a little intimidating with like, where do I host it? How do I do this whole thing? Stan

makes it so easy that like, if you want to get into making money online, monetizing your audience in some way, shape or form, you got to check out Stan's store. You guys could do this in a weekend. You could replace the

store. You guys could do this in a weekend. You could replace the income of your full-time job. Seriously, go lock in, go click that, go click that top link in the description, DM us if you have any questions.

We're so stoked to bring them to the show because you're going to be hearing about them a lot more. So go check out Stan. Let's go. So you're

promising somebody to make $100,000 a year in 12 months through a lifestyle business. If

they wanted to start that process over the next 30 days, what are those first few steps that they need to take in order to start building the lifestyle business of their dreams? So yeah, first step is figure out the niche and figure out the offer. Now this is actually counter to what used to work back in the day. So back in the day, if we think of this

world of like creators, Um, let's say when I started on YouTube back in 2017, the prevailing wisdom was build an audience first, sell a product second. It was like spend bloody years having a podcast about videography or whatever about

second. It was like spend bloody years having a podcast about videography or whatever about personal branding, et cetera, et cetera. Over, over the course of five years, maybe if you're lucky, you will build an audience of people who know, like, and trust you. And then further down the line, now that you have these subscribers or

trust you. And then further down the line, now that you have these subscribers or these email, this subscribers, ideally, uh, you'll be able to then figure out what they want and ideally be able to sell something to them. And that was all well and good in a world where there was less saturation of content and in a world where subscribers actually meant something. But now in a world with saturation

of content, with AI slop everywhere, where YouTube literally like they're testing out a feature on the app that doesn't even show you the subscriber count when you're watching someone's video. Like you have to click into their channel to see the subscriber

video. Like you have to click into their channel to see the subscriber count. And I saw that being tested on my device and I was like, holy

count. And I saw that being tested on my device and I was like, holy shit, like this is... This is like a real sign that every like none of these platforms really care about followers or subscribers anymore. They want you to just watch. Yeah, exactly. They want you to just watch. And so in that

just watch. Yeah, exactly. They want you to just watch. And so in that world, I think if I were starting out today, I wouldn't just make a random shit and hope and throw spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks and then hope that five years later I'll have an audience. I would start out with a very clear niche to figure out like, OK, who is the person

that I'm helping and what am I helping them with? And then I would figure out an offer, which is what is the core product I'm actually trying to sell. I would ideally price that at at least $2,000. At the

to sell. I would ideally price that at at least $2,000. At the

very least, if I was still going down the content creator route, I would sell an hour of my time on a Zoom call for like, I don't know, $100 or something. Because there's just a lot of value in actually having conversations with your potential customers to find out what their problems are and why they're following you in the first place. And now when you create content within that niche,

you're able to essentially get people into your offer. Even if you only have like 100 views on your videos or 1,000 views on your content, you'll still get some percentage of people wanting to take that next step with you. And so then you'd build some sort of DM engagement system, actually having conversations in the DMs with people. Again, people are like, oh, but I don't want to be chatting in

people. Again, people are like, oh, but I don't want to be chatting in the DMs. It's like, okay. you're probably not going to make any money because they're trying to start out a business. Like, you know, conversations are what leads to conversions, not just like, it's so unlikely that someone will just watch your content and then magically pay you a lot of money. You have to actually have conversations

with people. And so at the start, you have to do things that don't

with people. And so at the start, you have to do things that don't scale. Kind of like the founders of Airbnb, you know, at the start, they

scale. Kind of like the founders of Airbnb, you know, at the start, they literally went to every listing in New York and took photos of them to make them look legit on the app because on the website, because otherwise, you know, people were taking shitty iPhone photos back in the day. And so that that's not scalable to millions of users. But at the start, you have to do

things that don't scale and you have to do the hard work of getting those first few customers. And then once you've gotten the first few customers, life becomes easier because now you have a validated offer. You know that there is at least some kind of market for what you're selling rather than no market for what you're selling. And you at least have some testimonials or case studies,

which makes landing future clients and customers way easier. So I would start with niche and I would start with offer. Can you touch on why it's so important though to talk to your audience that you have? Because I think a lot of people think they know what their audience wants and then they spend all this time crafting their offer, making a course, creating a cohort, and

then they go to sell and And it's not actually what their audience is looking for. So how do you recommend people go about talking to their audience?

Is it just through DMs, posting on stories? And like, how valuable is that? Yeah. Oh my God. It's incredibly helpful. Like we have tried, we've made a

that? Yeah. Oh my God. It's incredibly helpful. Like we have tried, we've made a couple of products in the past where we've done it purely based on what I thought the audience wanted. And all of those have completely flopped. Whereas

whenever we have put in a sort of discovery process in the process where it's like either me or someone in the team is like actively talking to customers, either through Zoom calls or like putting out surveys to the audience or like putting out a ton of polls on Instagram stories. Essentially, if your audience is very large, you could just send out like a survey, a Google form that asks, you

know, let's say you guys are working on a personal branding live coaching program or whatever. You send it out to everyone on your list, everyone in your stories.

whatever. You send it out to everyone on your list, everyone in your stories.

It's a link to a form that asks a simple question. When it comes to building your personal brand, what is your single biggest challenge? Boom. Then people fill that in. If you use something like Typeform, you get a partial submit

that in. If you use something like Typeform, you get a partial submit point there. So you get all of that data. And then you're like, hey, if

point there. So you get all of that data. And then you're like, hey, if you have a few more minutes, we'd love to ask you a few more questions.

And you ask them some more questions about it. You know, 50% of people will drop off at that point, but you still captured the biggest challenge because they can't be bothered to answer the rest of the thing. But some people will answer the rest of the thing. And then at the end of it, you ask them to tick a box. Would you be open to us

reaching out to you for a 15 minute Zoom call to talk more about this? Loads of people will probably say yes, because they like you.

this? Loads of people will probably say yes, because they like you.

And so at that point, you actually just reach out to people with a Calendly link, be like, hey, you know, thank you so much for filling it out.

I'd love to talk to you. 15 minute Zoom call, book a time wherever.

And, you know, I just really want to understand your problems with personal branding. So,

you know, because we're working on this product and, you know, we'd love to understand what your issues are. Oh, and as a thank you, I'll give you free access to the product in return for feedback. or something like that. And

now what you're doing is that you're speaking to people who are actually your target market. They've taken the time to fill out the survey. You're getting on Zoom

market. They've taken the time to fill out the survey. You're getting on Zoom calls with them. And you're basically giving them free access to the thing in return for giving you feedback, which they feel good about. And then you feel good about it because they're literally helping you improve the product. And so you create like a little beta community WhatsApp group or whatever. And as you drip feed content to

them via Loom or whatever, you can ask them to give you feedback. Easy.

And now you're building the product with your audience, with market validation built into it, rather than going into a cave for six months, coming out with a whole course and then realizing no one wants to buy the thing, which is such a freaking nightmare. You know, No, it's a super fun game. I've done it before. It's fantastic.

nightmare. You know, No, it's a super fun game. I've done it before. It's fantastic.

Going back to something you said earlier, you've spent a lot of money on mentorship. You recently just paid $100,000 for something. You've paid $30,000 plus for something.

mentorship. You recently just paid $100,000 for something. You've paid $30,000 plus for something.

What have been some of the biggest unlocks from being around other very successful entrepreneurs that are selling stuff online, that are building products? What have those conversations looked like? I would love to know. Yeah. It's interesting because it's never something

looked like? I would love to know. Yeah. It's interesting because it's never something that I could have predicted ahead of time. But I've done it enough times to know that there's all sorts of unknown unknowns. That just speaking to the right person unlocks something. So for example, I was at a mastermind in Palm Springs a couple of weeks ago with this guy called Taki Moore and it

was a group of 50 people-ish. All of them were doing like a million plus a year from selling online coaching to some degree. One of them was selling coaching for farmers. One of them was selling coaching for accountants. One of them was selling coaching for like real estate people. We were selling coaching for like beginners starting businesses, all of this sort of stuff. And through just a handful of conversations,

I realized, huh, maybe we don't need a sales team because we were previously looking to hire a sales team to like, you know, book people into calls and do a sales team closing. And we saw these people making way more money than we were through a Google Doc. And so they just had a Google Doc talking about their offer. And they showed me the Google Doc. I

was like, oh, We could do that. And so we decided to test it out. And for the next cohort of the program, we sold it purely through

it out. And for the next cohort of the program, we sold it purely through Google Doc and a loom of me talking through the Google Doc, not a single sales call. And we sold all 30 spots within like 12 hours. And last month,

sales call. And we sold all 30 spots within like 12 hours. And last month, I was on sales calls for like 50 hours that month to sell those first 30 spots, which was useful initially. It was useful for me to talk to the customers and to understand and to get a feel of where people are at in the process. But we realized, wait a minute, maybe

we don't need to hire a whole sales team, which means we don't need to become a call center, which means we don't need to give away 10% commission to salespeople, which means we don't need to worry about like reviewing every call to make sure that like they're on brand and they're not too salesy and all that kind of stuff. And that came through just speaking to people in these sorts

of intimate environments, people are very open about how much money they're making. They're like,

holy shit, you're making 12 million from that? Nice. And you're selling it through a Google Doc with 80% margins? Holy fuck, how are you doing that? And he's

like, yeah, I'll show you. And it's like, wow, that's really cool. That's the sort of stuff that you don't get. You know, people are like, oh, everything's available online. It's like, that stuff is not available online. That's the stuff that

online. It's like, that stuff is not available online. That's the stuff that you get from being in the room with people who are doing the thing. God,

it's, It's so interesting. You also referenced to me that you were able to chat with someone that was really big on LinkedIn. And I think a lot of our audience is looking at LinkedIn. Dude, I recently had a video go off on LinkedIn. Really happy about that. I don't know what happened. We just posted it, vertical video. All of a sudden, I'm like, whoa, 400,000

happened. We just posted it, vertical video. All of a sudden, I'm like, whoa, 400,000 impressions on this thing. This is kind of crazy. What are the learnings that you took away from LinkedIn? Because I know that's something that you want to dive a little bit more into. Yeah, so there's this guy called Matthew Lakajev, or Lakajev, L-A-K-A-J-E-V. He is also one of the people in this mastermind. He

Lakajev, L-A-K-A-J-E-V. He is also one of the people in this mastermind. He

wasn't at the Palm Springs event because he had like a family commitment, but various people at the Palm Springs event, we were talking about LinkedIn, and he was like, oh, you've got to check out Matt's stuff. Okay, let me check out Matt's stuff. And then we had a few like WhatsApp conversations, which works because now

Matt's stuff. And then we had a few like WhatsApp conversations, which works because now we're in the same mastermind groups. Like if I reach out to him or he reaches out to me saying, hey, we're both part of Boardroom immediately. This is my connection because it's like, okay, I know you're legit. You're doing a million plus a year. You're part of this program. Like this is going to be

worth a conversation, right? And so I had a call with Matt yesterday and he just gave me a lot of advice about LinkedIn, how to approach it.

I mean, he's got a bunch of videos on his YouTube channel. He's

also got like a four-hour-long free course on how to do LinkedIn, which is really, really good. I was listening to it at the gym the other day. I was

really good. I was listening to it at the gym the other day. I was

like, this is some good stuff. But the key principles around LinkedIn are, number one, you just got to do a lot of volume over time to get good at the thing. Number two, do not outsource it to AI because like people can, people are able to now tell and it loses the authenticity, loses the soul, loses the connection you have with the viewers because you don't just

want to get numbers on LinkedIn. You also want people to build trust with you and then convert to the thing that you're selling. A big principle that he told me was like, if you're just getting started, actually LinkedIn sales navigator is like incredible for being able to like cold message people. And, you know, you know, sending 200 plus like 200 connection requests a week, sending 25 messages a

day, like actually using LinkedIn sales navigator as a way of kind of essentially cold DMing people to try and sell your B2B offering. And he told me about a bunch of their clients who have done that, um, successfully, um, We talked about how a lot of people struggle with posting on LinkedIn because if they have a job, then the manager at the job might be

like, wait a minute, you're soliciting for your side hustle on LinkedIn. What the hell's going on? And so you can almost build a secret side hustle by just

going on? And so you can almost build a secret side hustle by just cold DMing people on LinkedIn through Sales Navigator, which means you don't need to be like, hey, let me tell you about my course on LinkedIn.

You can just do that in the DMs. And apparently there's people making like 10K a month on the side in secret without their employer knowing, doing that kind of strategy. There was stuff like that that I just had never come across before. Wow.

strategy. There was stuff like that that I just had never come across before. Wow.

And I got through a conversation with this dude. That is so been in silence, baby. Literally, yeah. Okay, so as someone who's invested a lot of money in yourself,

baby. Literally, yeah. Okay, so as someone who's invested a lot of money in yourself, okay, you brought up big numbers, 60K, 62K, 100K. Someone might hear that and say, dude, why not put that in the S&P or invest in yourself? And

you say, dude, You've got to invest in yourself. You say that no one's actually saved their way or invested their way to financial freedom. It makes more sense to invest in yourself. We've also talked about this. It's like we feel that instead of putting the money... that we make into investments or something like that. It's

like, makes more sense to invest it back in ourselves. We make more money and the return is going to be 10, 20, 100x what you would see over 10 years if you were to put that into like the S&P or stocks. Can you talk about just making more money, bro?

Dan, why that's the best strategy? It's all about making more money, bro, right? That's

the thing. Yeah. So here's the thing, right? So here's how I kind of like, how I think about financial freedom. Is this on, like, if I draw stuff on an iPad, can we, like, screen record? Of course we can. And, like,

show it in the... Yeah. Ooh. If you're listening to this on audio, you're missing the diagrams, but I'll talk through the diagrams. Let me get you something you can draw on. What I care about, and what, like, a lot of people in my audience care about, is this idea of freedom. You know, freedom to live life on your own terms. Now, this is all well and

good. We all want freedom to be able to spend our time however we

good. We all want freedom to be able to spend our time however we want. And... The way I think of it is that you can almost quantify the

want. And... The way I think of it is that you can almost quantify the amount of freedom you have. Because if you imagine there's 168 hours in the week, you spend 56 of them sleeping. And let's say you spend another 12 like on the toilet and shit. You actually end up with a number 100. So there's basically 100 discretionary hours other than sleep and like bodily functions and

100. So there's basically 100 discretionary hours other than sleep and like bodily functions and stuff that you have to play with. And so the way I think about this is, how much freedom do I have in my life on a scale of 0 to 100? It's basically, how many hours of these 100 hours a week am I doing stuff that I want to do versus stuff

that other people want me to do or things that I really don't want to do? And the goal isn't necessarily to get this to a full-on 100,

do? And the goal isn't necessarily to get this to a full-on 100, but back when I had a day job, I was losing 40 to 60 of these immediately because it was quite fun being a doctor. I did

enjoy it, but... If I'm being honest, I would choose... If I had a fast-forward button, I would fast-forward most of my work days. With the exception of when I was teaching medical students. That was really fun. And that kind of made me realize that, oh, I really like teaching. There's something cool about teaching.

But I would have chosen to fast-forward most of my days. So I think this number is basically like how much of your time is actually your own versus someone else's. Now... The problem is, obviously, we all have expenses. And

someone else's. Now... The problem is, obviously, we all have expenses. And

so we need to pay rent and bills and all that kind of shit. And

therefore, we need income. And income minus expenses equals like profit slash savings, whatever. Um...

So in theory, if you could get your expenses to basically zero, then you would be free because you wouldn't need to work in theory, right? If you have no expenses at all, you don't need any income, life's good. Or in theory, if your income, if I don't know, we got like universal basic income or something like that. And suddenly you had, I don't know, 10K a month, 20K a month, whatever

that. And suddenly you had, I don't know, 10K a month, 20K a month, whatever it is coming in. to that then covered your expenses and then some you also wouldn't need to work because now you can basically do whatever you want you'd still probably work anyway because most people humans need a sense of purpose need some kind of work but you certainly wouldn't you probably wouldn't be working the

exact same job that you currently do if you had universal basic basic income or if you like won the lottery or something um and so unfortunately in order to make income we have this thing called a job which ends up sapping quite a lot of our freedom great that's all i'm good um The way people get to financial freedom, to use Scott Galloway's definition, is like financial freedom is when your passive

income, i.e. the money that you make without actually doing anything, exceeds your lifestyle

income, i.e. the money that you make without actually doing anything, exceeds your lifestyle expenses. And so that begs the question, how do you generate passive income? And passive

expenses. And so that begs the question, how do you generate passive income? And passive

income is generated through assets. And an asset is a thing that puts money in your pocket. So that could be stocks. It could be like, I don't know, houses,

your pocket. So that could be stocks. It could be like, I don't know, houses, like real estate, etc. It could be having like royalties. Like if you write a book, then you actually get royalties from book sales for the rest of your life. That is an asset that puts money in your pocket.

your life. That is an asset that puts money in your pocket.

And so the game of financial freedom is a game of essentially owning assets.

The people who own the assets are the people who are very wealthy, the people who are very rich, because assets create passive income. Passive income funds your lifestyle.

Great. You now have freedom to spend your 100 hours however you want.

which then begs the question of like, okay, how do we get these assets? And

there's basically only three ways to get assets. Either you buy the asset, so you spend money to buy a house or you spend money to buy stocks, or you get sort of gifted the asset if your parents are rich and they gift you a house or whatever. or you build the asset. So

in theory, you could build your own house, but that's kind of hard. But

build would be something like you choose to write a book. Like right now, anyone listening to this could choose to write a book. You can self-publish it on Amazon. And now for the rest of your life, you have an asset where

on Amazon. And now for the rest of your life, you have an asset where if the thing is good and you have a way of driving leads to it, you have a way of generating passive income. Unfortunately, with this buy, mostly people get assets through buying, which means you need money. Which means you need a job. And so we're back to freaking square one. We

need a job. God damn it. And so then we're like, all right, cool.

Now, the way we accelerate our journey to financial freedom is we could reduce our expenses to zero or as close to zero as possible. But there's

only so much you can do. Like the most you can save is 100% of your paycheck, right? Like there's a cap to how much money you can save. And you also probably don't want to live like a monk. But there theoretically

save. And you also probably don't want to live like a monk. But there theoretically is no cap. Like... lol no cap uh to how much you i don't even know what that means i just hear the kids say it There's theoretically no cap to how much income you could earn. But there is if you have a job. Because if you have a job and you try and

like, I don't know, 5x your income, they probably won't go for that.

You could make the case that, hey, I'm adding 5x value to the business. But

they're probably going to say something about bans and like salary bans and it's unfair on the people and the rest of the team. And it's

just not how it works. And, you know, the rule book says you're only allowed to negotiate a raise once every three years. And, bro, you tried last year. So, fuck you. You know, that kind of situation. Yeah.

last year. So, fuck you. You know, that kind of situation. Yeah.

Um, so then we think, well, a job is where you're doing work for someone else. A business is when you are doing work for yourself. And

someone else. A business is when you are doing work for yourself. And

so can we take the skills that the employer is paying us, which, and our employer is basically a single client. And could we potentially use those skills to start a business where we have multiple clients, clients or something like that? The other

thing there is that, you know, there's different types of businesses, right? Like you

could have a You know, if you if you want to make a shit ton of money, you could have a very stressful job. You could be a corporate lawyer, you could be an investment banker, etc, etc. And now you actually you can probably get to financial freedom within like a decade or two. But the

problem is that most of those people are kind of miserable in their 20s and 30s because they're like burning the midnight oil and not having a good time.

Similarly, you could also build like a really high risk, high growth startup or like a traditional business where you're like, man, if this works out, I'll sell it for 100 million and then I'll be rich and then I'll be financially free. But again, a lot of those people having spoken to them, A, they get

free. But again, a lot of those people having spoken to them, A, they get depressed after they sell the company and B, like it sort of torpedoes their health and their relationships and all that kind of stuff. So this is where coming back full circle, this idea of a lifestyle business comes in. where if you could build a business that kind of gave you kind of freedom and

like flexibility and like fun and fulfillment, now actually you can actually have the freedom that you want en route to becoming financially free. Because it takes a lot of money to get to a point where you never need to work a day again in your life. But if you build a lifestyle business where en route to doing that,

life. But if you build a lifestyle business where en route to doing that, you've also got the freedom and the flexibility you want, you generally find that that is what people want anyway. The reason people want all this money to be financially free is so that they can spend their time doing what they want. But if your business allows you to spend your time doing what you

want. But if your business allows you to spend your time doing what you want anyway, if the stuff that you're doing for your business is stuff that you're not just doing for the money, I imagine you guys enjoy running the podcast, right? Super fun. I would probably do this anyway if you won the

podcast, right? Super fun. I would probably do this anyway if you won the lottery. I'm having a real time. This is a lifestyle business. Yeah, it's a lifestyle

lottery. I'm having a real time. This is a lifestyle business. Yeah, it's a lifestyle business. This is fun. We get to do it. We get to travel.

business. This is fun. We get to do it. We get to travel.

We get to hang out with you. Yeah. And so that kind of thing. And so that wouldn't And so you guys doing this podcast wouldn't eat

thing. And so that wouldn't And so you guys doing this podcast wouldn't eat into your 100 hours points because you would choose to do this anyway, even if you were retired, even if you had 100 million in the bank. You

just love the idea of doing a podcast. It's really fun to do. I would

still make YouTube videos for the most part, even if I had 100 million in the bank. I probably wouldn't sell online courses if I had 100 million in the bank. So I know that for me, online courses are like a thing that I'm doing for the money. But that's okay. you know, every business you're doing some of the stuff for fun, some of the stuff for money. And

hopefully most, mostly there's an overlap between those two things. It's my favorite time of the year. Is it the artless trends? Oh yeah. We're going through it. A lot of this was around AI. Okay. They surveyed 140 different countries,

it. A lot of this was around AI. Okay. They surveyed 140 different countries, 6,500 creators at massive companies. You got like people at meta, people at Netflix, people that are really using creativity at the highest level. And I think we have some amazing insights for you guys today. So let's go through them. What's number one.

Originality becomes your edge. I think that's a boom. Yes, of course. Originality is

coming to our edge. With AI, everybody can create amazing things. And so

you need to be original to stand out. If you're not original, you're just going to blend in with everybody else. Absolutely. So maybe using it to put your own spin on it. Absolutely. Not relying on it entirely. Absolutely.

Okay. Number two is getting up to speed with it. So I think a great place to be playing with these tools is an art list. They have everything integrated right there for you. So you can test it out. You can try these different things. It does take a little bit of time. So I even recommend messing around

things. It does take a little bit of time. So I even recommend messing around if you use Chat2BT to help you prompt and then bring it in to these different platforms to help you guys out. What's number three? Number three is that vision and taste are your superpowers. With everybody, it's able to use AI to make whatever they want. You have to become your own creative director. You

have to creative direct the prompts. You have to use your taste and your vision to make original content and allow you to stand out. Number four,

you can't fake real experience. You can't. You guys need to be bringing people together, getting off the screen, bringing people into different settings that are outside of the little bubble that we all live in on our phones. So whether that be coffee meetups or that be like a run club of sorts, a photo walk, whatever the heck the thing may be, try to bring people together in some way, shape

or form. We're going to be doing in-person things, which we're super excited about.

or form. We're going to be doing in-person things, which we're super excited about.

So I'd implore you to do the same. - And number five is trust and authenticity is everything. Everybody is a little bit sketched out with AI of like, is this real? Is this AI? I don't know if I can trust it. If you can lean into being authentic and building trust with your audience,

trust it. If you can lean into being authentic and building trust with your audience, you're gonna win. - You can check out the full trends report link down in the description. Let's keep it rolling. - But the thing that you're doing for the money brings you joy because you're making an impact on the people that you're helping. Sure. That's what I could tell myself. But if I didn't

you're helping. Sure. That's what I could tell myself. But if I didn't care about the money, I would just put it for free on YouTube, right? And

right and so i'd still have the impact for way more people you could argue that if you don't pay you don't pay attention and so people if something's free they don't value it etc etc uh yeah i don't know um but i certainly wouldn't be trying too hard to sell an online course sure um if i had 100 million in the bank which is good to know it's good to know what's in my list of things

that i do for the vibes and what's the things i do for the revenue and often those things are not the same i'm name, unfortunately. Like this

podcast is not the most efficient way for you guys to make money. You

could probably make way more money just doing more commercial brand deals, but the podcast is fun. And there's almost always a trade-off between like the stuff I do

is fun. And there's almost always a trade-off between like the stuff I do for the vibes and the fun and the stuff that I do for the money.

And when we're building a lifestyle business, we're just trying to have a nice overlap, a nice mix where we're like, you know what? This is actually pretty good. You brought up something in here with like having a job and being very

good. You brought up something in here with like having a job and being very burnt out. Were you very burnt out as a doctor? And was that a reason

burnt out. Were you very burnt out as a doctor? And was that a reason why you're like, I need to figure out how to make this YouTube thing work? Or no? I actually wasn't. So like, no, I figured out the productivity

work? Or no? I actually wasn't. So like, no, I figured out the productivity thing where like for the first couple of months of being a doctor, I was very burnt out. And then I realized that actually a lot of A lot of the burnout came from the fact that I wasn't as engaged with the work as I could have been. This was kind of like the whole

reason why I wrote my book, Feel Good Productivity. It's like, there's lots of things you can do to get energy out of whatever work you're doing, even if that work is hard or it's boring or it's tedious or whatever. And

so I wasn't actually that burnt out. But I had a lot of friends who were very burnt out and I looked ahead 10 years to see other doctors who were ahead of me and they were all burnt out. And so I was like, I don't want to run the risk that I'm going to be the one special snowflake that like loves working in medicine 60

hours a week. I'm probably not like everyone says, as you get older, you have less energy, et cetera, et cetera. And so I want to optimize for freedom so that I have the option of working part time because the happiest doctors I knew were the ones working like three days a week or the ones who'd left medicine to build their own businesses. Yeah. You know what

one of my favorite things about the podcast is? The whiteboard sessions. Yeah, the whiteboard.

God. And the first time we did it was with Daniel Priestley. Oh,

yeah. And you brought up Talking More. You brought up other people that you've been working with. And Daniel is a good friend of yours. And you guys have worked together and he's taught you quite a bit. I'm curious to know...

Um, what have you learned from Daniel Priestley and how has he helped you transform the way you go about your business? Shout out to Dan. Yeah, big shout out to Dan Priestley. So I discovered his book oversubscribed back in like 2021 or something. And that is still to this day, my most highlighted book of all

something. And that is still to this day, my most highlighted book of all time on Kindle. I think number two is The Way of the Superior Man. Perfect.

But oversubscribed by Dan Priest, the amazing book. And so when I started my podcast, I just assumed he was in Australia because I knew he talked in his book about being in Sydney or something. And it turns out he lives in London. And so we had him on my podcast and it was super

London. And so we had him on my podcast and it was super fun. We really got on. He taught me so much in that podcast episode. That

fun. We really got on. He taught me so much in that podcast episode. That

episode got like 2 million views. And then he came on the podcast again and it got another 2 million views. And so he's been our highest performing podcast guest of all time. And then sort of through those conversations, we just got to know each other as friends. And now me and my wife go on like double dates with him and his wife and it's the vibes

and stuff. One of the key things that he taught me is, I

and stuff. One of the key things that he taught me is, I mean, it seems obvious now, but it really wasn't, it wasn't obvious to me back then, which is that everything is downstream of lead generation. Like if you can't generate leads for a business, then you don't have a business. And so to this point around like validating an idea before you build the thing, His whole

shtick would be build a waitlist or build a score app quiz or build a free introductory workshop to personal branding. If you can't get people to sign up to a free introductory workshop to personal branding, there's no fucking way in hell you're ever going to get them to pay $2,000 for a program on personal branding. And so that kind of idea sort of has really shaped our business over

branding. And so that kind of idea sort of has really shaped our business over the last five years of really recognizing build the waitlist first. Even now, we've got a Black Friday offer coming up for our YouTuber Academy. We are building a waitlist for the Black Friday offer because... It's just so easy to build a wait list. It's very easy for someone to enter that email and be

wait list. It's very easy for someone to enter that email and be like, yeah, I want to learn more. And then we can sort of like send daily emails to them that like give them a lot of value and make them think, whoa, Ali really knows what he's talking about, about this YouTube stuff. And then when we present the offer and the deadline and

YouTube stuff. And then when we present the offer and the deadline and the 24 hours to go, one hour to go, four hours to go, all of that kind of stuff, that's when we get a massive spike in sales.

So that was a key thing. And then Dan also has really helped me around this sort of lifestyle business stuff. His shtick is that you kind of got to decide fairly early on, do you want to be a lifestyle business where you're like less than 12 people, fun, freedom, flexibility, all that kind of stuff? Or do you want to be a performance business where you're like 30

of stuff? Or do you want to be a performance business where you're like 30 plus people and you've got a big team, you've got managers, you've got like a C-suite and all that shit? And that zone in the middle between 12 employees and 30 is, he calls it the desert. And every time we've been in the desert with like 15, 16, 17, 18 team members, everything has gone to shit.

And we've always sort of like then condensed back down to a core team of 12. And there is something really magical about this number 12. Like

when you start going beyond it, things start to break. And so through conversations with Dan has helped me realize that, you know what, I don't really care right now to have a performance business. At this stage of my life, you know, I've got a kid. We've just moved to Hong Kong like a year ago. I want to have a balanced life. I want to actually start

taking care of my health. For me, having a lifestyle business is what I want right now. Maybe I'll change my mind in a few years and be like,

right now. Maybe I'll change my mind in a few years and be like, you know what, let's go big. Let's go for like the 50 million revenue type business. But for now, a lifestyle business is the place to be.

type business. But for now, a lifestyle business is the place to be.

When you got to over 12, had Dan already told you like... yo, you gotta watch out for the desert. And you're like, I got it. And then we went over. We had a similar conversation. Yeah, we love that, dude. I texted Dan like

over. We had a similar conversation. Yeah, we love that, dude. I texted Dan like a year after. I was like, you're fucking ready. He goes, I know, dude.

He's like, I'm wise, dude. I've been down this route before. We were

like just about to get into our first program. Bang my head against a wall.

And we were... kind of workshopping it with Dan. We were pretty set in our ways and he's like, I'm telling you, this is wrong. It's not going to work. Dan, you don't get it. You don't know, Dan. He's like, I've been

to work. Dan, you don't get it. You don't know, Dan. He's like, I've been here. I've done this, brother. Dan was telling me not to build this Lifestyle Business

here. I've done this, brother. Dan was telling me not to build this Lifestyle Business Academy. He was like, look, you've already got a thing that works. You've got your

Academy. He was like, look, you've already got a thing that works. You've got your YouTube thing, your YouTube Academy, which is doing like somewhere between one and two million a year in revenue. Why not just pour fuel on that fire? Because

it's so much easier to take something that already works and make it better. And

then you can potentially sell it, et cetera, et cetera. And I was like, man, Every time we've ignored Dan's advice in the past, we've always come back to do it then two years later. So maybe, and then we were like, nah, Dan, this time. We're going to call him, dude. We're going to give him a call after this. On the, you brought up lead gen. Yeah. What

ways do you have in your like sales process of qualifying leads? Because

I feel like So attention is really sexy and to get a lot of views and you get a lot of people coming to you is great. But if

they're not qualified, it doesn't fucking matter because if you're trying to sell a high ticket thing and it's not a qualified lead, you're not going to turn them into someone who's going to pay for your product. So what ways do you have to be able to qualify the leads if they come through you guys as funnel? Yeah. So in our case for our high ticket thing, we have

an application. So you have to apply. And then we review every application and

an application. So you have to apply. And then we review every application and we have an AI that also reviews every application. And what we are looking at is based on the way they filled out the application, do we think we can actually help them? I.e., do they have enough pre-existing expertise that they could potentially come up with a high ticket offer? So we

get a lot of like 19 year old kids who have... Want to

be a life coach? Yeah, want to be a life coach. want to be a life code because they've watched like humsos content or something they've never done they've never started a business uh you ask them what you do what they do in the spare time and they're like watch netflix and scroll tiktok and stuff like that super into video games but not good enough to be competitive and

so they just actually have no skills now it's very hard for us to take someone like that and help them build a hundred thousand dollar a year business in under 12 months uh so we just don't even accept them into the program um if you are that 19 year old with no skills that's okay you you can just spend a year or two learning the skills because it's

not that hard to learn skills that are like high income skills. These

days, the whole AI thing, as a 19 year old kid, if you were to just figure out like, what kind of businesses do you like the idea of that's not too saturated? And can you figure out a way to learn how to use AI to help them make more money? you're onto a winner. Like I was speaking to one of the guys at the mastermind who

winner. Like I was speaking to one of the guys at the mastermind who started off a few years with basically no experience, but had previously worked at a marketing agency and was like, all right, I'm gonna do marketing for businesses and landed on hair salon owners. He's not a hair salon. He's never been to a hair salon in his life, but he found that the niche of hair salon

owners wanting to grow their business was underserved. And so now he's the guy who helps hair salon owners make more money. And he's doing like 10 million plus a year from helping hair salon owners. And then he expanded like beauty salons and the nails and like, you know, adjacent markets. as like the only dude in the space who's like never actually run a hair salon or been to a hair

salon. But he was like, yeah, it just works because you can just apply the

salon. But he was like, yeah, it just works because you can just apply the same skill set to a specific niche. So just because you don't have skills doesn't mean you can't learn the skills. I think, oh, I don't have any skills. And

like, what's the easiest, laziest business to start as a beginner without having any skills? All of that kind of stuff gets a lot of views on

any skills? All of that kind of stuff gets a lot of views on YouTube. And so then you end up in the realm of like freaking paid surveys

YouTube. And so then you end up in the realm of like freaking paid surveys and stuff. But I think the underrated thing is learn a high income skill, become

and stuff. But I think the underrated thing is learn a high income skill, become really good at something, and then parlay that skill into building a business that helps someone else ideally make more money. What are other ways that you're using AI in the business that have really helped you guys? Because you said you have a smaller team now, but you can operate at a much higher level because you're using

different things to save you more time. What are some of those things? I mean,

I still think we're quite bloated in terms of team size. But like... everyone is

good is the problem like we have no one on the team who's like clearly bad you should do like a Hunger Games yeah I should yeah And so, yeah, on the AI front, we use it a lot for like brainstorming. So, for

example, one thing that's really helpful is being able to take transcripts of like sales calls or taking all the application forms that we get for our Lifestyle Business Academy or taking all of the workshops that I do for our students and all of our like coaching calls and stuff that our coaches do.

Chuck them all into like Cloud Attach GPT and get it to figure out like what are the things that people are struggling with, which then helps inform. the content

that I do in the next week's workshop and stuff. So that's like super, super helpful. Previously, that would have taken us a human, like a bunch of time

helpful. Previously, that would have taken us a human, like a bunch of time to do. We also do a bunch of like idea brainstorming for content. So

to do. We also do a bunch of like idea brainstorming for content. So

we will feed it the CSV of our YouTube analytics and be like, all right, tease out the patterns here and help us figure out like, oh, actually, when we do videos about books, those don't get as many views as videos about money, but they actually drive more subscribers. Oh, that's interesting. Okay, that's good to know.

Or like when we do videos about money, but framed around how to make money versus how to start a business. Actually, no one wants to start a business, but everyone wants to make money. It's almost that meme where you have the two lines, sort of lining up outside this like kiosk. And one kiosk is make money. The other kiosk is start a business. And like, there's no one there.

make money. The other kiosk is start a business. And like, there's no one there.

And everyone's like, I want to make money, which is interesting. So we found that when we're doing videos about business, titling it in the way around how to make money rather than how to start a business. And then using the business as the vehicle that's explained within the video actually performs better. And so stuff like that is insights that the AI has come up with that we didn't see just

looking at the data ourselves. Were the bottlenecks different going from zero to one million and then one to five? Revenue or subscribers? Like revenue. Oh. Or

subscribers. Or subscribers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or subscribers, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What were

the bottlenecks? Yes and no. So there's basically two categories of bottleneck, right? There's

like, we don't have enough customers and then there's, we don't have enough, sorry, there's a sort of the lead generation problem of like, we need more people to buy our stuff. And then there's the sort of delivery problem of like, we actually can't, we can't facilitate more people to buy our stuff because we're actually

limited in operations or in customer success or that kind of thing. Up until about two months ago, 100% of our bottlenecks has been in the realm of like, we just need more people to buy our stuff. Because if we could get more people to buy our stuff, if it's like leveraged self-paced online courses, it doesn't matter if you have a thousand customers or a million customers, because the fulfillment for

those is the same because it's an online course. But now with our Lifestyle Business Academy, we are literally limited to like taking 30 people a month because it's so high touch. And so now we're like, for the first time, actually bottlenecked on

high touch. And so now we're like, for the first time, actually bottlenecked on capacity to take customers. And so now we're literally turning customers away. We're like,

sorry, you want to pay us 10 grand? Yes, we actually don't have space because we want to make sure people in the program actually have a really good experience. And so now we're in the game of how do we increase capacity? How

experience. And so now we're in the game of how do we increase capacity? How

do we hire more coaches who are actually good? Make sure that they're like the fit with the vibes of the team, that they know what they're talking about. How do we build systems that allow students to get results at scale?

about. How do we build systems that allow students to get results at scale?

beyond like the first 30 people. And so for the first time in our business's history, that is now the bottleneck. Do you find that you have to still be very much in this or can the team make decisions without you there? The team can totally make decisions without me there, but I find that

there? The team can totally make decisions without me there, but I find that When my energy is in a project, the project just does better and people have a better time, the team have a better time of it and the customers have a better time of it because I've just got so much context on the business stuff and have been doing it since the age

of 13. And so it is unreasonable to expect our team members that are mostly

of 13. And so it is unreasonable to expect our team members that are mostly junior and haven't done the thing before to be able to have all of that like 18 years of context that I've got in my head to be able to like do something. Having said that, they are still very good. So for

example, Gio is our head of student success. And so she has had experience in like running communities. And we sort of has taken a lot of online courses and like spoken to a bunch of mentors around how to build a good like customer success system within the business. So I fully trust her views on that front. But when it comes to the curriculum, what are the sequence of

front. But when it comes to the curriculum, what are the sequence of steps that we get students to do to help them define their niche or figure out their offer or figure out their lead generation system and stuff. when I try outsourcing that to the team to do, I end up just scrapping their work and doing it myself anyway. And so we've realized that I just

have to design the curriculum myself. And my wife, Izzy, helps as well because she has a lot of context on this stuff. What does the week-to-week look like now? We have part-time YouTuber academy. We have this lifestyle business. We're

making YouTube videos still. What does the daily look like for you? You

have a kid. You have a kid. Oh, yeah. I have a baby. Yeah,

daily looks like basically we have two filming days a week, so Wednesdays and Thursdays.

Tuesday and Friday afternoons are devoted to software because we're building apps as well. And so that's when I have the calls with the developer and

as well. And so that's when I have the calls with the developer and sort of our CEO on the software side. And then the other, what is it, like two days a week are spent on the Lifestyle Business Academy stuff.

So that's some pretty nice little portfolio stuff that we're doing. It's quite a bit.

You got your hands full, which means you need to be productive. Exactly. So on

the topic of productivity, how important is being productive with being able to build a lifestyle business? Oh, massively. Like productivity is basically like how much output

lifestyle business? Oh, massively. Like productivity is basically like how much output do you get for a particular like input of, let's say, time, energy or focus. And so if you are more productive, you are getting more useful

focus. And so if you are more productive, you are getting more useful things done in the same amount of time compared to someone who is less productive.

Uh, and so there's, there's sort of two axes on this. There's vision and then there's action. There's vision is, is that sort of like the directionality, like knowing

there's action. There's vision is, is that sort of like the directionality, like knowing what direction you actually want to go. And then there's action, like actually doing the stuff day to day, week to week that gets you there. And I generally find that when people start to get into productivity, they care a lot about the action efficiency thing. Like how can I type faster? How can I use keyboard

shortcuts? How can I just do, do shit a little bit faster? Uh,

shortcuts? How can I just do, do shit a little bit faster? Uh,

And then as your business grows, you end up actually realizing that the vision bit is just way, way, way more important than the action bit. Like, even if I don't do any execution at all, the business will still hopefully grow if I make the right decisions. And so then the game for me becomes a game of how do I make sensible decisions, which is why I invest in all these

mentorships and like mentors and stuff. They're not actually helping me sit down and do the work. They're They're helping me figure out what are the right chess moves to make because making, you know, the chess move of removing the sales team and going with a Google Doc is a massive chess move that I wouldn't have seen if I was just like trying to optimize the sales team.

It's sort of like zooming out a little bit or the chess move of, hey, do you realize with your offer you could just like bump the price to 10 grand and like it would be fine. I was like, oh, hmm, that person's got more experience than I do. I feel weird about this, but let me just borrow their belief right now and let me just test it.

Sick, that worked. All right, let's keep going. And immediately we've just added 40% to our bottom line. So it's things like that that you wouldn't come to from just sort of the day-to-day productivity, but you kind of need the day-to-day productivity to even get to a point where your decisions start to be so leveraged that it becomes about the decision-making. Yeah. So like... Instead of, dude, just make more money.

It's like, dude, bro, just charge more money. Yeah, literally. It's simple math.

That's often a magic bullet. Like every time you hire a business coach, often the first thing they'll say is, what's stopping you from charging more money?

Usually the answer is like, I'm scared. And so it's like, have we thought about testing it? Because the pricing page is the easiest sort of page in your entire business to test. And the one where the least amount of effort has the most amount of impact. Because generally increasing prices drops directly to the bottom line. Because you've already got your costs. So the extra revenue you

bottom line. Because you've already got your costs. So the extra revenue you make from a price increase literally just goes to your profit. And

that can be the difference between like 10% margins and like 40% margins, which is the difference between like a really kind of shitty business and like a very good one. I remember when we were first getting started in this whole game,

good one. I remember when we were first getting started in this whole game, We thought to be able to charge more, you had to include more information to make it more valuable, give away more time. But it's not actually the case. Can you talk about that? Yeah. We've also had this issue where it's just

case. Can you talk about that? Yeah. We've also had this issue where it's just so natural to think that people pay for things and the more things you give them, the more they will pay for the things. But especially when you're in the business of selling transformation rather than selling stuff.

which is sort of the more high ticket you get, the more people care about what's the result rather than what's the method for getting there. You actually

want less stuff. Like if you're helping a business owner make more money, the less they have to do to make that money, the more they will pay you. But if you're giving them like access to our course library with 156 hours

you. But if you're giving them like access to our course library with 156 hours of content, they're like, bro, 156 hours, who the fuck has got time for that?

Whereas when you're selling to, when you're selling to, actually, you know, there was a talk from Maria Wendt at this mastermind. I was at like two weeks ago and she sells low ticket products like $10, $27, $37 products to people wanting to start businesses. Her take was that when you're in the low ticket game, you want to stack as much stuff as humanly possible because that

type of person who wants to buy a $27 thing is Almost like when you see those like telemarketing shows, there's like you get this knife for $27 and you get these other 84 knives for another $1. And you're like, oh, wow, 85 knives for like $27. Wow, I might as well just buy this.

So similarly, what she does is she sells like, you know, 300 Instagram Canva templates plus 5,000 hooks that work on LinkedIn. Plus these are the 27 courses I've made for $27. And for that type of audience, who's a beginner getting started, who thinks they need stuff, the stuff is what gets them over the line.

But if you're selling a high ticket, it's about the transformation that gets them over the line and the less stuff there is. People don't really care about the stuff. They care about getting the result. And the stuff is just there to A,

stuff. They care about getting the result. And the stuff is just there to A, facilitate them getting the result and B, for the result to be believable. So

if I said to you that, oh, I'll just make you an extra million overnight, you probably wouldn't believe me. But if I said, I'll help. I'll

make an extra million overnight. And the way I'm going to do that is because I'm going to give you my list of contacts that are all like businesses doing at least 50 million in revenue. And I know that they could benefit from a personal branding masterclass. And they've literally said to me, they would pay a hundred grand to have a consult with someone who has an experience in personal

branding. So with 10 WhatsApp messages, you could get an extra million dollars. Now

branding. So with 10 WhatsApp messages, you could get an extra million dollars. Now

you believe me because you're like, oh shit, the stuff is going to get me the outcome. But if I said, you know, oh, and I'll throw

the outcome. But if I said, you know, oh, and I'll throw in my 156 hour long YouTube course. Oh, and by the way, I'll throw in like a, you know, free copy of my book and like, you know, the audio book as well. And I thought some of that. Oh, and

by the way, we've got all these like thumbnail templates that you can use.

And then you'll be like, bro, like, what are you doing? Yeah. You've

been able to also amass quite a following on YouTube. It exploded during COVID. You've

kept fuel on the fire. It's continued to grow exponentially. What are some of those bottlenecks that people face in the very, very early days of YouTube? Because so many people want to be full-time YouTubers. I mean, we're in conversations with you, conversations with Daniel Dalen. I mean, we're going back rejuvenated with YouTube. I'll tell you what. We came here being like, maybe, maybe we'll vlog at some point. We're

what. We came here being like, maybe, maybe we'll vlog at some point. We're

leaving Hong Kong being like, oh, YouTube needs to be like number one priority for us. As far as a second channel that isn't a podcast, that's like a vlog

us. As far as a second channel that isn't a podcast, that's like a vlog channel. build in public type situation. Nice. What are your thoughts on building a

channel. build in public type situation. Nice. What are your thoughts on building a YouTube? You get sick. Okay. I have some hot takes on this. Hot takes for

YouTube? You get sick. Okay. I have some hot takes on this. Hot takes for you guys. For us? Dude, tell us some hot takes. Throw this in the

you guys. For us? Dude, tell us some hot takes. Throw this in the trailer. Okay. Give me some hot takes. Okay, so the thing is, like...

trailer. Okay. Give me some hot takes. Okay, so the thing is, like...

To the point we made earlier around like it's very hard to follow the model of build an audience first, monetize it second. Correct. It's a lot easier to do when you have something to sell. So Daniel Dalen makes all his money from his like e-com warehousing thingy. He doesn't make his money from the fact that he's got like a YouTube channel with like 100,000 something subscribers.

Right. So he has a legit business that's very legit and is just pouring fuel on the fire by virtue of the fact that he has a YouTube channel.

Now, if someone didn't have that product and they were just like POV, how I'm trying to build my $10 agency from Dubai or whatever, like they would realize there's like 500,000 people also trying to do that and none of them are getting any views. And so the game of YouTube is it's becoming harder and harder and harder to get views, which means what you want is a

product to sell to the people. And then the content you make is like aligned with that particular product. So the way I think about this, if I use my hands rather than the diagram, so you've got your niche is basically a person and a problem, right? Do you want to draw again? Sure. Oh, I

love the drawing. Ooh, let's go. I love the drawing. Dude, double draw. Double draw

session. So this is sort of like your person, and this is sort of like where they are right now, and this is the situation where they want to be, right? You've got this kind of thing going on here. And your offer

be, right? You've got this kind of thing going on here. And your offer or your product is positioned as the bridge that helps them get from A to B. You know, for example... I don't have a YouTube channel and I want to

B. You know, for example... I don't have a YouTube channel and I want to be a successful YouTuber. Great. Take all your bells YouTube course. The offer is positioned as the bridge between where they are and where they want to be. Um, I don't have a personal brand. I want a personal brand,

to be. Um, I don't have a personal brand. I want a personal brand, your personal branding masterclass or whatever is positioned as the offer. Uh, the thing to keep in mind is your content is also should be positioned in my opinion as the bridge that gets them from A to B. So if my, if, if I cared about making money from helping people start YouTube channels, My YouTube channel would

probably be more like Think Media, where I'm making content about how to start a YouTube channel. Best video, how to like your videos, best film camera gear for

YouTube channel. Best video, how to like your videos, best film camera gear for beginners, like a review of the DJI Osmo and all that crap. And then it's like, hey, join thinkmasterclass.com, which is their like webinar funnel that goes into the offer, which is, I don't know what the offer is, but it's like there's alignment between the content and the offer. And this is an easy business

to run. I'm not saying think media is easy, but like in general, when

to run. I'm not saying think media is easy, but like in general, when you have alignment between the stuff, life is good. If it's like the content is about like, you know, in my case, for example, the content is sort of about productivity, but also sort of about study tips. And there's like some vlogs in there about life as a doctor. And oh, by the way, the thing we sell

is about how to do YouTube. It's like that is misaligned. And so we can get a shit ton of views and subscribers, but actually be making relatively little money in the grand scheme of things compared to other people who have more alignment between like the content and the product. And so in your guys's case, I would ask the question of like, what is the offer? Like, what's

the core thing that you want to make money out of? And then we can figure out like, what's the YouTube channel strategy, which might be vlogs, but also might not be because to me, vlog is a format rather than a thing. Oh, interesting.

Okay. So what's your offer? The offer is going to be a personal branding workshop. Okay. And it's going to help people make six figures online selling products. What

workshop. Okay. And it's going to help people make six figures online selling products. What

kind of products? Digital products. Make 100K plus online products.

I don't make this bit thicker. There we go. Selling digital products. Low ticker, high ticker, all of the above? All of the above. I don't think, I don't have like a specific one there. Okay, cool. Nice. Where does the concept of personal brand come into this? It's like how to build a personal brand and then how to craft an offer around your personal brand. Okay, cool. So

it's like make 100K online. That would be the promise. Yeah, let's make 100K online sort of through building a personal brand, through personal brand, which helps you sell digital products of some description. Correct. Okay. And you mentioned like paid to be you or something? Yeah, paid to be you. Paid to

be you. Yeah, I think that's a really cool name. Paid to be you. I

appreciate that. So you help people become rich, paid to be themselves. Exactly. So you

have your target audience. You've got kind of their dream outcome, which is, so now they're making like 100K plus a year being themselves, basically. Correct. Sick. And where is their current situation? Like, describe your... Target audience.

Target audience. They're currently in a job. How old are they, roughly? I

would say 24 to 35, maybe 24 to 35, in that range. 24 to

35. They're working a job right now, not loving it. Job hate. Yeah, not

loving the job. They see this idea of making money online feels fake.

There's no way. Yeah. Great. Keep going. I would say they don't see, they get a lot of help out of like online content. Like they see YouTube not as like a That is something where it's like, oh, this is totally fake. This is very helpful. They're like searching for this content to be able to

fake. This is very helpful. They're like searching for this content to be able to leave their job. Or I also think it could be a creator of sorts that's making content, but hasn't been able to like fully monetize. Okay. Now in

that world, you have a divergence of who this person could be.

Either it is a working professional who's like wants to build a business or it is a creator who, and those are drastically different audiences. And so what I would encourage you to do is like, if you had to pick one, who is the one you actually want to talk to? Is it the existing creator who's not making enough money? Or is it the total newbie

who is not an existing creator who also wants to make money? I

would say it's, I want to go after the person that's probably the working professional because they have more money and you can sell them a higher ticket.

Correct or no? Well, Not necessarily because, I mean, if someone is an existing creator and they're like, they're probably doing it alongside a day job, so they probably have income coming in. Okay. So then let's go, let's go the existing creator. Okay.

But the problem with the existing creator is that if you think of how many people there are who are not creators versus how many there are, you've automatically reached out to like 100% of the total addressable market of creators. MARK MANDEL:

See, which is what I feel like we did the first time we were selling a product online. We were selling to creators, and I felt like creators weren't making-- and I think the 1% of creators is very small. Like, they're

making $6,000 USD plus per month, very small. MARK BLYTH: Oh, god. That's like a 1% of-- like, only 1% of people are creators in the first place.

And only 1% of people are actually making money from it. So unless you're going mega, mega, mega high ticket, and your content is purely targeted at that person, then I would, I don't know. This is where it's like, it's not an exact science, but from what I know of your audience, I imagine mostly the people

listening to this podcast have jobs and want to make it rather than are already doing a great thing and want to improve, I suspect. But I could be wrong here. No, I think you're right. I think most of the people have

here. No, I think you're right. I think most of the people have jobs. I think that's given us some clarity. Yeah. Okay, great. We know we're talking

jobs. I think that's given us some clarity. Yeah. Okay, great. We know we're talking to the person with the job. Great. So your offer is... You're going to take someone who's a boring ass working professional with a job and you're going to help build a personal brand online through content and shit that sells stuff that eventually makes them to 100k. Show them how to do a newsletter, show them how

to optimize for that, show them how to make content consistent on YouTube. Fantastic. All

that kind of stuff. So great. So that's your offer. Now, all of your content is also going to be that kind of stuff. So you would do YouTube videos or whatever. You would pick a platform, stick to it. it. Probably YouTube. Unless

or whatever. You would pick a platform, stick to it. it. Probably YouTube. Unless

you want to go LinkedIn. I mean, obviously, the choice of platform is up to you. But given your guys' skill set, probably YouTube. Although, I don't know, Instagram,

to you. But given your guys' skill set, probably YouTube. Although, I don't know, Instagram, high-end Instagram could be interesting as well because a lot of that audience is on Instagram. I mean, this is a massive audience, so they're on every platform.

Instagram. I mean, this is a massive audience, so they're on every platform.

Or maybe it's even LinkedIn. Maybe your differentiator is the fact that you're the only people doing insanely high quality videos on linkedin and talk about this shit where everyone else is just doing chad gpt written text content stuff because a load of people on youtube doing it tons but there's very few and many on linkedin doing it so i'd be interested in like i wonder what linkedin

is like anyway so your content would be also selling this transformation and helping them along the way and the way i think of content um I'm literally doing a workshop for our students about this like this week. So it's top of mind. Is that a good piece of content should do two things. Number one, it

mind. Is that a good piece of content should do two things. Number one, it should move them, move your target audience one step closer to their dream outcome, to D-O, dream outcome. Like let's say you did a video on How to start your first newsletter step-by-step guide. That moves them one step closer. How to stay more consistent when doing content moves them one step closer. And secondly, if you imagine

like a trust meter from zero to 100 that your audience has with you, you want a plus one on the trust meter every time you make a piece of content. So if there's a width that this is strategically generated, boom, you're going to lose trust with a sophisticated audience. Even though the content might be useful. So you want to be thinking in those terms around like...

be useful. So you want to be thinking in those terms around like...

what is useful in terms of moving them closer and how do we showcase personality vibes, which you guys already have in spades, as you know. So I wouldn't worry about that too much, but like, how do we come across as like nice people that this audience will want to trust enough to take the next step, i.e. join our free workshop, sign up to our seven-day email crash course,

i.e. join our free workshop, sign up to our seven-day email crash course, fill out the scorecard, apply to our program, blah, blah, blah, all of that jazz.

And so, so interesting. And so when you, when you say, when I hear people say, we're going to start a vlog documenting the process, I'm always like, yeah, vlogs.

Yeah. I see. Would have maybe worked in 27 to 2015 era, but like, and I'm all for vlog as a format, but fundamentally no one gives a fuck about you guys. Totally. Uh, they care about what you can do for them. And so if it was a video that was titled, um, how to produce

them. And so if it was a video that was titled, um, how to produce a high quality podcast step by step. And it was a vlog of your trip to Hong Kong. Now this makes sense. Yes. Vlog as a format. Yes.

We're doing a video like tomorrow or something about like, you know, read these four books to become a millionaire or something. Actually, it's a good title. Ooh, I like that. And it's about... Write that down. $100 million offers, obviously, dot com secrets,

that. And it's about... Write that down. $100 million offers, obviously, dot com secrets, million dollar weekend and the millionaire fast lane. Ooh. And... I could do that video at my desk, but I'm going to use vlog as a format to sort of like walk around Hong Kong a little bit. Make it more interesting.

Make it more interesting. Go from one coffee shop to another. Talk about the stuff. And like it's a bit more vibey there. See, because I think when we

stuff. And like it's a bit more vibey there. See, because I think when we were kind of discussing of like what would a vlog format look like for us.

It's not just like... Yeah, it's not like, oh, dude, come with me. Day in

the life. Come with me to get my food. It would be... It

would be around building a podcast plus incorporating some sort of... There has to be a value. Board sessions. It has to be a value. Giving value and then

a value. Board sessions. It has to be a value. Giving value and then also kind of showcasing life in it. Otherwise, it's just like, look how cool I am, not... It's not helpful for me as a viewer.

Yes. You know what I mean? But I think it's more engaging than me sitting in my office and like just telling you about it for 10 minutes. It's like we can use our skill set with video and with editing to

minutes. It's like we can use our skill set with video and with editing to make it much more engaging and still deliver you something where you're like, oh, I got something. I also enjoyed watching Ted's show today. Yeah. I also...

I don't necessarily have desire to do sit down talking head YouTube style videos. I think like being able to teach in a vlog format sounds a lot

videos. I think like being able to teach in a vlog format sounds a lot more exciting. Yeah, you definitely want to follow your energy on that front. Right.

more exciting. Yeah, you definitely want to follow your energy on that front. Right.

That's why I'm doing vlog as a format. I know it probably won't make a difference to the video. But at a certain point, actually fairly early on in the journey, your own creative mojo is like the most important asset in the business. And so if you find something fun, even if it doesn't have a

business. And so if you find something fun, even if it doesn't have a very clear ROI, like what's the ROI of you guys shipping all this equipment?

You probably could have done it in slightly less good production value and saved the $1,000 that like China air. Goddamn China Air, dude. Probably could have done that.

But you guys like the aesthetics of good production value. I could have not spent a shit ton of money on my personal website design. I just really like design.

And this call I had this morning with a dude. He was like, man, I look at your website and I can tell you really care. And I was like, thank you. Finally. It's a negative 50K investment, but thank you because that's

thank you. Finally. It's a negative 50K investment, but thank you because that's what I'm going for. Your comment made it all worth it. So doing stuff that you find fun. Keeping in mind, you also want to add value to the case. There's sort of like overlap between art and business. You want to keep it

case. There's sort of like overlap between art and business. You want to keep it enjoyable for yourself and you also want to make it useful for the audience. So,

yeah. Was this vision at the very beginning of what you thought your brand, your channel, and all of this could turn into, has that stayed true?

Has it changed a lot along the way? Like if you look at this trajectory of a line, if you're writing and you're like, this is where I want the Ali Abdaal brand to be like eight years from now, five years from now, did it end up hitting that? Or did it change so much along the way? Yeah, I didn't really have a vision for it. I didn't have

much of a plan. The extent of the plan was, I'm going to start making videos about life as a medical student, because firstly, I can shill my courses because I was teaching courses and helping people get into med school. And secondly,

because in the UK, not many people are talking about life as a doctor. So

like, I just think it would be interesting. I think if I just did that and was able to vlog my life as a doctor, I'm sure something, some good things will happen further down the line. So that was the extent of the plan. I had no idea that it would become about productivity. I didn't even

plan. I had no idea that it would become about productivity. I didn't even think of the word productivity applied to myself until people in the comments started saying, how are you so productive? Oh, interesting. And then the content went into productivity. I

didn't think I would make videos about like iPads and shit until I was like, hmm, let me do a video about like iPad note taking and boom, 2 million views. Holy fuck. Okay. You know, I've been watching desk setups for years. Let me do my own productivity desk setup. Boom, 50,000 views. Holy,

years. Let me do my own productivity desk setup. Boom, 50,000 views. Holy,

nice. This is fun. And so it's just like over time, the thing has evolved by me kind of following my own energy, kind of figuring out what would be useful, but also keeping an eye on like a little bit of a long-term trajectory because I knew that Initially, my content was about how to get into med school. I knew that it couldn't stay like that

forever because that's a niche that you age out of. Then my content became about how to study for exams. Again, it's a niche you age out of.

No one wants to listen to a 58-year-old talking about how to study for 18-year-old exams kind of thing. Oh, you're saying you age out of it as opposed to your viewers? Yeah, I guess there's viewers showing as well, but I would age out of it in that I don't want to be making videos about exams forever. But then when productivity came about, I was like, oh, there's something here

exams forever. But then when productivity came about, I was like, oh, there's something here where like, you know, David Allen, author of Getting Things Done is like in the 80s and he's still doing content about productivity. This works. Similarly, if

you look at tech YouTubers, Every year they've got something. Yeah, every year there's something new. And like Marques has been doing the same shit for like 15 years.

something new. And like Marques has been doing the same shit for like 15 years.

I just been doing the same shit for 19 years. Like in tech, you don't age out of it as the creator. You actually, in a way, age into it. You become more and more credible the longer you keep doing it.

into it. You become more and more credible the longer you keep doing it.

So I'm like, all right, what are those niches? And I landed on productivity as being a nice one. And now I think building a business is one of those niches where the more experience you have, the more credibility you have. Yeah. Hormozy gets

more and more credible every year rather than less and less credible every year, which is the issue with like lifestyle, you influences in that like it's so hard to stay relevant as an entertainment lifestyle personality yeah but it's fairly straightforward to stay relevant as an educational personality yeah and i mean he also is getting more stories every year from every month there's a new business that pops into

to the workshop in las vegas and he's like well we have a new youtube video to make beautiful we can help someone with this this is a crazy bottleneck wow i didn't even know this one existed we have a new video so with my stuff as well one thing um i also landed on a few years ago was books Because like we have a we've got the series

on the channel called Book Club where I just make videos talking about books.

And those episodes do really well. And they were really fun to make. And I

read books all the time. And books are sort of like my tech in the sense of there's always new books coming out. And there's always authors of those books wanting to promote the books. And so now it's easy enough for me to get them on the channel to do an interview or whatever, or to get early access to the book. And so I've never been

only once I got early access to like an iMac for Apple, but I can get early access to any book I want now because people are like, whoa, if he makes a video about this, it'll like boost our sales.

And they only need like a few thousand sales to hit the New York Times bestseller list. So they're like, that's it. They just need a couple. How

bestseller list. So they're like, that's it. They just need a couple. How

many do they need? Like 8,000 hardback US pre-orders. That's a good number to shoot for, like 10,000. And so like a YouTube video from me can actually move the needle and could be the difference between them hitting the list versus not hitting the list. And they kind of know this. And so I'm like, we want to lean more into book club as being an unfair advantage of the channel,

because that's also a thing that has longevity. The more books I review, the more legit I become as a book reviewer. gosh, this is so interesting. You're really,

I mean, you're really reverse engineering what it is that you want to be known for and what it is that is going to make up a portion of the business. Yeah. On the topic of lists, on Colin and Simi, we talk about YouTube is just of a list. Are you still in that camp of like when you create the format or you're scripting out your videos, like you're

doing it in the format of a list? For the most part, it is becoming harder and harder to get views on YouTube. And so list as a format is...

not that interesting anymore. Like list as a format when BuzzFeed pioneered it, like 10 ways to, whatever, was novel. And then a few years ago when I did that Collins and Mirren tweet, like 2023 or whatever it was, it was still kind of novel in that there weren't that many people who were leaning into the idea of a list. Now, almost every educational YouTube video you see is

leaning into the idea of a list. Homozy's videos are a lot about lists, but now they're doing different format. They're doing the Shark Tank format, which is not a list. I mean, you could kind of say it's a list, but it's a different format and it's got a moat around it in that it is hard for someone to replicate that format just like overnight. Whereas

Whereas anyone can replicate the format of a list overnight. Wait, which one? The one

where he brings someone on. He brings someone on and talks about it.

That's hard to do. I wouldn't just be able to do that. It

would take some back and forth and operational shenanigans and stuff. But they've built that system now so they can just do that very easily. Yeah, you also see Colin and Samir doing it with their creative support. Yes, exactly. And

they have the unfair advantage of actually knowing these people on WhatsApp and being able to iMessage like, I don't know, the a big YouTuber and getting them to actually sort of spill the beans on like what they're struggling with with their channel. Whereas a newcomer in that space just wouldn't be able to do that. And so I think when you're, as you're growing, it's useful to find formats

that. And so I think when you're, as you're growing, it's useful to find formats that give you an, that lean into your unfair advantages. And so list, I mean, we still do lists, but also we get less views than we did back in the day when we were still, when we were just doing lists. So I don't know. Why do you think it's gotten so much harder to

lists. So I don't know. Why do you think it's gotten so much harder to get more views on YouTube? Is it people have gotten better over time? It's

gotten more competitive. Yeah. I think it's basically like supply and demand type situation where, you know, if we imagine like five years ago, pandemic times, um, Like in, when was it, like 2019, when I made a video talking about how much money I make as a doctor and YouTuber, that like blew up.

And like so many people have referenced that video over the years. They're like,

that was why I started a YouTube channel. And then I made a video like nine passive income ideas, which has got like 15 million views.

And that was when the supply of content on YouTube about how to make passive income was actually not very good. They were all kind of shit.

But now if you type in passive income, you see insane production values from Iman Gadzi. You see Alex Ramosi. You see Mark Tilbury. You see Dan Martell. You

Iman Gadzi. You see Alex Ramosi. You see Mark Tilbury. You see Dan Martell. You

see like then you see like the girl side of the algorithm that's also doing that kind of content. Like there's just so many and they're all really good.

And I, you know, I sometimes see like an Iman Gadzi video popping up like passive income ideas. And, you know, I know Iman, we have a bit of like a WhatsApp relationship going on. So I know he's a legit guy and I know he knows his stuff, but I want to hate the content. I

want to be like, oh man, he's just fucking clickbaiting people into buying a score.

And then I watched the video and I'm like, oh shit, it's really good. And then similarly, I saw Dan Martell do a video the other day being

good. And then similarly, I saw Dan Martell do a video the other day being like, how to add 100k to your bottom line in 2025. And I was, I, my initial response was to roll my eyes, be like, come on, Dan. And

then I watched the video. I was like, oh shit, it's really good.

Oh, Dan, you really know your stuff. And so it's just the bar has gotten so high where I can no longer dunk on these people for having click-baited. I have click-baited titles because their content is good. I'm like, fuck, I

click-baited. I have click-baited titles because their content is good. I'm like, fuck, I need to make my content better. And so it's almost like you're sort of... To me and to a lot of YouTubers I speak to, it

of... To me and to a lot of YouTubers I speak to, it feels like we are running faster and faster just to maintain, just to stay in the same place. Interesting. Of like plateauing view counts and stuff. Like...

Yeah. how much does that affect your mental because you're running a business and a lot of how you generate leads and generate sales is directly correlated to like how many views and your engagement on social. So like, how do you internalize that if you're saying you're running faster, you're having to continuously like get better

and better and maybe your views aren't what they were a few years ago. Yeah.

That's the sort of primary kind of mental struggle that I, that I face. It's

It's very much a first world problem. But this is kind of what I talked to my... I had a session with one of my coaches like three days ago

to my... I had a session with one of my coaches like three days ago where we were literally talking about this. It's this question of... So, yeah, so what it feels like is like, yeah, we're sort of struggling to almost stay afloat in the water and paddling harder and harder because the waves are getting like choppier and choppier with more and more people coming in with like banger content.

And like people like Dan Martell and Homo Homozy and people like that investing a shit ton of money into their teams and into their content and actually just doing it really well. And so... the market is getting more saturated and more competitive.

And so like we're having to paddle harder and harder just to get the same number of views. Now, the way that we are approaching this is to move away from views as being the primary like metric that we care about. It's never

really been the primary metric we care about. And it's been about trying to figure out like, okay, the direction of travel is that we're probably not going to be getting way more views over time. Because to do that, like, let's look at Johnny Harris, for example. Every video gets like 3 million views.

Holy fuck, the amount of effort that goes into those videos. It's

like, and do I want to try and do that? Probably not. Like, I

actually like sitting in front of the camera just talking about a book that I've just read. I don't want to have to do a whole like half

just read. I don't want to have to do a whole like half an hour long script with a team of seven animators. You look at Kurzgesagt, and I, you know, I spoke to Philip who runs the channel, and it's a team of like 70 animators. Do I want to do that? No. Okay.

So can I see, so if I look at where the puck is going, I imagine a world where we actually get less and less views over time, at least on YouTube. So what does that mean? That means we need higher revenue products, i.e. high ticket things that require us to convert fewer customers to make the same amount of money. Okay, hence why we started the high ticket thing.

Software, so we're building like a sort of monthly recurring revenue play through like productivity software, because that's one of those things where if you can build like a product-led growth loop into the app, like a referral loop or something, then you can grow the app without it being tied to my personal brand. And so we've seen that with one of our apps, VoicePal, where we've got like A few thousand

users, it does like a million in annual recurring revenue-ish. And only 15% of the users have ever heard of me. Whereas at the start, it was 100% because I provided the initial traction. But over the last 12 months, actually, it's mostly grown through word of mouth, which means now we have an asset that is decorrelated to my fame on the internet. And so this is kind of how I'm

thinking about the business. How do I decorrelate the amount of money we're making from how popular I am in a given moment on the internet? While we're still continuing to do YouTube videos and diversifying into LinkedIn and Instagram and stuff. That's really

interesting. The apps is so interesting. How many are you currently working on right now?

So VoicePal is out. Momentum is out. Momentum is sort of like a habit tracker with accountability. We're actively working on... Creative Grid is out as well, so that's a

with accountability. We're actively working on... Creative Grid is out as well, so that's a third. We're actively working on like a fourth and a fifth, but trying to sort

third. We're actively working on like a fourth and a fifth, but trying to sort of weave them into like one ecosystem of like productivity that all like talk to each other and stuff. So that is what I'm doing for three hours this afternoon because it's a Tuesday, so it's my software block this afternoon.

Thinking about how these apps different... These different apps interact and what's like the system behind how they talk to each other. So that if someone wants to massively become more productive... They could just like, yes, they could use Todoist and like Notion for some stuff and like email for some stuff and this and that.

Or they could use all of the individual apps that we're building that all talk to each other that will then give them insights into how productive they're being and what they can tweak and stuff. So that's what we're crafting right now. And that feels quite exciting. Do you see a world, and maybe you're

right now. And that feels quite exciting. Do you see a world, and maybe you're not even thinking this far in advance, but like, is there a possibility or a world where you're not actually making YouTube videos anymore? Yeah, I would love to get to a point where I no longer have to make YouTube videos. I would

love to get to a point where, kind of like where PewDiePie's at, where Bro just releases a video when he feels like it. That is, that's where I would really like to be. We're not quite there yet because YouTube is still a primary lead gen mechanism for the business. Yeah. But to be honest, I think in a world where I didn't feel like I had

to make YouTube videos, I still probably would because I still read books. I

still enjoy teaching. I like sharing the stuff. And I often think of the question of like, if I won the lottery and just had 100 million in the bank, I'd still probably make YouTube videos. I just would care less about the views. Although I say this, I have a friend who sold a company for 100

views. Although I say this, I have a friend who sold a company for 100 million and he started a YouTube channel and he really cares about the views. And I was like, bro, why do you care about the views? You made

views. And I was like, bro, why do you care about the views? You made

all the money. He was like, well, yeah, but like when you're doing anything, you want to do it well, right? And the views is like a metric of how well you're doing. And I was like, oh, shit. This guy's kind of like me, so maybe if I actually had 100 million in the bank, I would still care about views. Maybe this is actually like an internal spiritual growth game

rather than a, if I had this external metric, then dot, dot, dot.

We talked to Max Tuning about that, who sold Sour Strips, and it was like for a similar number, and he's like, yeah, these YouTube views are a little down, it really bothers me, and I put a lot of effort into these vlogs, man. I set up the camera, I do the drone, and he goes, yeah, views are down a little bit. He's like, I'm not phased,

I'm not phased. I feel like as creative people, though, I... It's really difficult to not look at that little shiny number. And then when you open YouTube Studio, it tells you how bad or good you're doing. It's a really fun game. It's

a really fun game, especially when the arrow's been gray for a while. Or even

red. And we, you know, we're like, well, you know, in fairness, we didn't publish that much, but like, actually, we kind of did. Yeah, you start making like excuses and like try to validate. We're like, it's okay. It's fine. Everything's

fine. Yeah, I'm fine. Everything's good, dude. I've kind of ended up becoming an unofficial therapist to a lot of other kind of big YouTubers who will often message me and be like, hey, can we have a chat? I'm thinking, I'm feeling weird about my channel. And we'll have a conversation about it. And almost always the pattern will be Video topic X does well. I don't give a fuck about

video topic X anymore. I really want to do video topic Y or just not make videos at all. But I can't because like actually sponsors and also sales and also like revenue. Oh man, if I just keep this up for X amount more years, then I'll have Y amount in the bank and then I'll be able to chill out. uh what do you reckon and i'm

like then we just sort of like explore okay what does that exploration look like don't have to name names at all but what what are you exploration looks like asking the question like if you won the lottery would you still want to do youtube videos or not like is what i'm trying to get at is is youtube a means to an end for you or is it

like actually the infinite game you want to keep on playing mostly for youtubers i've spoken to it's actually more like an infinite game but for some it's been like you know what i want to if I had 5 million, 10 million in the bank, et cetera, et cetera, I would just, I would never make content ever again because I actually don't enjoy it. And I don't like the

fact that I'm somewhat known and I don't like being recognized on the street. And

I just want to, I just want to open a bakery where no one knows who I am, you know, that kind of situation. And so then that's interesting. So in that world, it's like, okay, let's figure out a

interesting. So in that world, it's like, okay, let's figure out a plan to get you to your financial goal. Also, do you really need to hit that financial goal? What's really the point? Do you think 5 million is going to change your life compared to 4 or 3 or 2 or 6?

Or like, you know, how do we, how do we land on that number?

uh what's our like monetization mechanism within the business could can we see ourselves running a lifestyle business where we're running a high ticket coaching program that help and helping people but not making content be like oh yeah you know i just i you know i love the idea of helping people i just don't want to you know i just want to work with a small number of people like really

one-to-one and okay cool did you know you could charge 100k for that like holy shit you know that kind of stuff so it's about figuring out what they actually want and then um what is the plan they're following to get what they want and is there alignment between their goal and the plan?

You've also gone through a little bit of a rebrand. Like so much of your content was focused around productivity and now it's a lot more about building a business. Did you struggle with that? Was like making content about productivity something that

business. Did you struggle with that? Was like making content about productivity something that you're like, I don't really want to make content about this anymore. I'm really more interested in the business side of things. Yes. Yeah. In the early days, when I was learning about how to be more productive, it was interesting for me to document what I was learning about how to be more productive. I

was taking all these courses and building my second brain and trying all these apps and stuff. But really, the reason I cared about productivity in the first place was because I wanted the financial freedom through building my business. Like

when I was in med school, I had to find a way to squeeze more efficiency out of my time. When I was working as a doctor, I had to figure out what's the, how can I build a content engine that means I can do it part time, etc. But now that like, I've kind of gotten there.

For me, talking about business is way more interesting and energizing than teaching someone how to focus a little bit better. Because I feel like I've done that to death. And we've got a course about it, we've got some apps about it. And so I now I still do productivity content, but I'm trying to

it. And so I now I still do productivity content, but I'm trying to sort of position the brand so that it like focuses on this idea of freedom, freedom to live life on your own terms. Like that's the thing that I care about. And productivity is a vehicle to getting to that destination. Similarly, building a

care about. And productivity is a vehicle to getting to that destination. Similarly, building a lifestyle business is a vehicle for getting to that destination. So I sort of view those as all reaching for the same kind of thing where you've got control over your time and you can spend it how you want. And do you feel like you've gotten to that point yourself personally? Yeah. Where I have control of my

time and spend it how I want. Yeah, for the most part. Certainly, if I was content to make less money, I can literally do whatever I want with my time. I do have some financial goals that I haven't reached yet.

And so in that case, I'm still doing some somewhat doing stuff that in a world where I had 100 million in the bank, I probably wouldn't be doing. But also I try and make the stuff exciting and energizing. I

doing. But also I try and make the stuff exciting and energizing. I

still do the apps. And I still really like the idea of building like an online business school, whether or not it'll be a high ticket coaching offer or whatever. Is 100 million your number? Not really. I think actually 10 million is

or whatever. Is 100 million your number? Not really. I think actually 10 million is my number. Okay. But also I know people who've hit 10 million and

my number. Okay. But also I know people who've hit 10 million and then they say the number becomes 20. That's what I was going to ask. I think it's more like an infinite game where it's like there's always like

ask. I think it's more like an infinite game where it's like there's always like another level to reach. And as long as the process of getting there is like enjoyable and energizing and doesn't like fuck up the other areas of my life like health and relationships and family and stuff. I'm content to play the video game. You

mentioned a little bit earlier that you're really trying to focus on health. Was

that something that you neglected in the past and something you're really trying to focus on now or no? I definitely neglected it in the past. I'm a bit more focused on it now, especially now that I have a kid. Okay, cool. Let's do

some zone two cardio. Let's like actually do some weight training. Let me figure out, fix my posture and shit so that like my hips and back doesn't hurt every time I like. Should we do a little stretch as a team real quick? Oh, that'd be good. Ooh, nice. Yeah, I feel good. Yeah. So stuff like

quick? Oh, that'd be good. Ooh, nice. Yeah, I feel good. Yeah. So stuff like that. Trying to refocus. So not massive. If you kind of measure someone's priorities by

that. Trying to refocus. So not massive. If you kind of measure someone's priorities by the amount of hours per week they put into the thing, I'm putting maybe six hours a week into my health, which is not massive. Like there's people doing that way more than that. That's pretty good. But it's way more than that. An hour a day? An hour a day, yeah. Yeah, like three gym

that. An hour a day? An hour a day, yeah. Yeah, like three gym sessions, which is three hours. And then like maybe some like 40, half an hour, 40 minute runs. And some like stretches. That's great. Throughout the week. Yeah. Yeah,

we've been getting big while we've been in here. It's been fun.

We had a lift. We had a lift. We had a run. Run this

morning. Or run yesterday morning. It was great. Yeah, it was really fantastic. The

water is a great place to run here. It's gorgeous. It's a place to be.

Yeah, you guys have like a beautiful little city skyline. I also feel like I'm more productive if I get a workout in. Or a run. Clears the head. Yes.

You just feel better. You got the endorphins rolling. Yeah, man. What's your relationship like with failure? I don't really think about the word failure at all. It's just

so standard advice within this world that like nothing's ever a failure. It's just data to learn from. And I've sort of internalized that so much to the point that whenever the word failure comes up, it almost registers a 404 in my mind.

What world is failure other than quitting? And failure, I guess, would be torpedoing your marriage or your family relationships or destroying your body through, I don't know, drug abuse or alcohol abuse. Those I would regard as failure. But a video didn't perform well or we didn't hit our sales quota this month. Any

of that shit is just like, oh, I mean, that's just data. They didn't

form the next decision. What do you do when something like that doesn't work out for either a sales quota or a YouTube video? Do you guys go back to the drawing board? Do you talk about it as a team? Like,

what do those processes look like? Yeah, I mean, basically everything just comes down to the maths equation, right? So we're like, okay, well, why do we think it didn't hit? On content, it's harder to figure out, right? Like, it's harder to figure out,

hit? On content, it's harder to figure out, right? Like, it's harder to figure out, like, why did that video not land compared to the other video? We can

come up with some ideas. And then we're like, all right. do we want to change anything as a result of this? Usually the answer is, nah, not really. We're

still glad we put the video out because even though it only got 70,000 views in the first like weeks or whatever, it's still like, and the comments on this are really good. It's still a lot of people. It's still a really valuable video. I'm glad we did it and I would do it again,

valuable video. I'm glad we did it and I would do it again, even if it's not going to get as many views as the laziest AI business to start in 2026, you know, that kind of situation. So on the content side, we do that. And then on the product side, That's literally a math problem to be like, okay, we didn't get the number of sales. Was it?

We didn't have enough traffic. Was it? The conversion rate was bad relative to industry average. Was it? No one took the upsell. What was our upsell rate?

average. Was it? No one took the upsell. What was our upsell rate?

Was it like we had loads of refunds? In which case, why do we have loads of refunds? And it's really only going to be one of those four things.

Like it cannot be anything else because those are, you know, those are the only four numbers. And so, okay, well, which one do we want to focus on next time? Is it just a case of getting more leads into the top?

Actually, no, it's not because actually our conversion rate was kind of shit. All

right, cool. Let's do some A-B tests and figure out why our conversion rate sucked. Do we need to improve the offer? Do we need to just

rate sucked. Do we need to improve the offer? Do we need to just add more testimonials to the landing page? Do we need to do the sensible things that you would do to improve the conversion rate? And then boom, conversion rate goes up. Nice. You know, that kind of thing. And it's just with a long

goes up. Nice. You know, that kind of thing. And it's just with a long enough time horizon, every single failure is a data point that then leads to the next thing happening. then you it's just it's just always one one foot in front of the other based on where we're trying to get to and like what's the mismatch between where we are and where we want

to be great what's the strategy that we're going to follow how confident are we that that strategy is going to work have we spoken to mentors and stuff and run the strategy by them to get their hot takes to be like is there something else we're missing oh, we can just delete the sales team. Okay, cool. Let's consider that as an experiment. Or, oh, we can just

sales team. Okay, cool. Let's consider that as an experiment. Or, oh, we can just 5x the price. Let's run that as an experiment and see what happens. What

have been your mistakes with growing the team either too fast or finding this happy spot at 12 people? Because, I mean, I think that's something that a lot of people don't realize is they end up having to be a manager and they have to hire people and fire people. It's probably

one of the more unfortunate parts of running a business is is having to do that and having to manage people. So what have you learned? What have been some of those mistakes? Yeah, a big mistake early on was hiring too many people, thinking that more people equals more output. So sometime in like 2021, I think we were like, okay, you know, this is working. We've got our YouTube

Academy. It's printing cash. We've got a YouTube channel that's doing well. The bottleneck

Academy. It's printing cash. We've got a YouTube channel that's doing well. The bottleneck

is we're just not making enough videos. So instead of making one video a week, what if we made four videos a week? And so what's the bottleneck for that? Well, it's just the writing, right? So let's hire four writers and get four

that? Well, it's just the writing, right? So let's hire four writers and get four writers to write four scripts every week. And then I can just film the videos.

Turns out, when you hire four writers to write scripts for you as a YouTuber, you actually end up producing like zero videos because all the time is being spent trying to read a script, mean like that's kind of shit like uh it's not it's not really hard to say uh you know they kind of miss the point and then hours and hours and hours reworking a

script when i don't even use a script anyway and so me just like going from scratch and running off bullet points would have resulted in a better faster video than a writer spending three days working on a word-for-word script and then me spending a whole day trying to tweak it to my liking and all of that shit so that was a real mistake that we

made in terms of yeah just thinking more people equals more output I would have thought more writers ran more videos. It makes sense though, because I mean, you, you know, your voice the best and you know, you know what the audience wants. You've grown it to a, like to a number for a reason, you

wants. You've grown it to a, like to a number for a reason, you know? Yeah. I think this is one of those areas where I

know? Yeah. I think this is one of those areas where I had, I was sort of underestimating the secret source of myself in the sense of, I was like, well, I mean, it's not, it's not been that hard. Like I just sort of looked into it. Like if I can

that hard. Like I just sort of looked into it. Like if I can do it, anyone can do it. Like I'm not that special. And then realizing, oh, actually, even if this script is good, it just doesn't vibe with me.

And I cannot bring myself to say something that doesn't vibe with me. Therefore, you

know, maybe an objective outside observer could say that like, you know, that these scripts are just as good as each other. In reality, one of the writers was clearly better than all the others. And it was really obvious from day one, even from the interview. And so we should have just hired her. But even

if an outside observer could see no difference between a writer's script and my script, the fact that it's my script still means I feel better about it. And

so the energy that goes into it from me knowing that I believe the things that I'm saying That was the thing that I'd underestimated. What are the biggest misconceptions people have about making money online and building business when it comes to creating content, this whole YouTube, Instagram, social media sphere? Yeah, I think a big misconception people have is that A, you have to be famous to make money. Like

you've got to have like millions of views and stuff. But actually, if you have if you sell a niche and high ticket product, you don't need millions of views. You just need like a couple of hundred and you'll probably get some clients. I think another big misconception people have is if you have millions of views, you are making millions of dollars. And that correlation between like

views and money, I've seen repeatedly over time. Yeah, there's a little bit of a correlation, but it's not that strong because a lot of the people getting millions of views are attracting audiences with less money and don't have a product that's aligned with that. So especially, you know, I've got a friend who's like an entertainment YouTuber. Every

that. So especially, you know, I've got a friend who's like an entertainment YouTuber. Every

video has to go viral. Otherwise the brand deal money goes down. And he can't really sell anything other than merch because it's a broad entertainment audience. And

so there's no way he could sell a course because they'd be like, bro, what do you do? Like, it's just not the right thing as an entertainment audience. And so he is constantly on like the viral video hamster wheel trying to

audience. And so he is constantly on like the viral video hamster wheel trying to figure out how do I up the ante and do something even more absurd for the next video so that we can get at least a million views so that NordVPN won't like cut the sponsorship deal or whatever. And that's a hard place to be. I'm so glad we're not. Yeah, I'm so happy. God

value or I mean, entertainment seems so tough. So, so difficult. It seems very difficult, and it, I feel like, can look really sexy and really fun. You're like,

you're this fucking awesome, fun YouTuber. You have great people. You have community. People love

you. Yep. Because nobody, like, the fan bases ride the hardest for entertainment YouTubers. And

it seems like the sexy thing to do. Yeah. I think also that fan base skews very young. Like, generally, the younger you are, the more of a stan you are for, like, particular... entertainment youtubers or boy bands or girl bands whatever the thing might be and generally as people get older they tend to mellow out a bit and generally as people get older they tend

to make more money and have more money to spend on educational things so like it's just when you attract an audience of like kids who love your entertainment content it's actually quite hard to build a business on that unless you're selling a feastables or a yeah prime or whatever and then that is itself its own challenge off on the side were you a super fan of anything growing up

Harry Potter. That's probably the thing I'm still a super fan of now.

Harry Potter. That's probably the thing I'm still a super fan of now.

Have you been to Harry Potter World? I actually haven't. I used to live 20 minutes from there, but I used to live 20 minutes from there, and so I just never went. What? I don't know, in the UK, yeah. You're a big fan of it, huh? That's funny. It's nostalgic. It is nostalgic. Dude, they had it all on China Air. We might need to rip that all at home. Every

freaking episode. You think you could get through? Yeah, for sure. Every episode?

I'd be talking to a British actor by the time we landed, dude. God, this

has been so epic. Do you have anything else for Ali? I've recently also gotten into Harry Potter fan fiction. I mean, love it. that's been a recent discovery yeah it's so good wait like fans writing oh wow yeah that's actually so sick huh interesting interesting anything else for us what house would you be in Ravenclaw

probably yeah I could see that yeah be a Gryffindor guy nice what are you Dude, I might just go Slytherin. Just to shake things up. I love green. Yeah,

just to shake. Yeah, yeah. God, this has been so epic. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We came all the way out to Hong Kong to make this happen. It's been an absolute blast. So thank you for welcoming us in the studio. Ladies and gentlemen, this has been episode 182 with Ali Abdaal. If you're still here, please hit the subscribe button, drop us a comment,

Abdaal. If you're still here, please hit the subscribe button, drop us a comment, leave us a like. We'll see you guys all next week. Peace. Hope you're enjoying this episode. Real quick, I want to let you know about an awesome free

this episode. Real quick, I want to let you know about an awesome free product that we got linked in the description. It's our personal brand, Kickstart.

What's in it? Okay, we got five prompts for you. It's going to help you define your personal brand, get clarity, and start posting content that really resonates with your audience. It'll literally take you less than 10 minutes, and it's been super

your audience. It'll literally take you less than 10 minutes, and it's been super apparent with all the guests that we've had on our show. They have really strong personal brands, and it's allowed them to scale their businesses. So go check it out. Top link. Let's keep it rolling. Welcome back to the PPD. Come

out. Top link. Let's keep it rolling. Welcome back to the PPD. Come

on. This is the best time? Some say they just come for this part. That's

what people say. That's what people are saying. What a fun episode. One of my favorites. A little stressful at the beginning. A little stressful. We had a cord

favorites. A little stressful at the beginning. A little stressful. We had a cord right before Ali walked in. UK plugs. The UK are really confused with their voltages on the plugs. Plug it in, just... goes crazy. This is the first time we're taking the pod internationally and something we didn't really think about was the

fact that they use different voltage, different outlets. So we've been having trouble with like power banks and like extension cords and all that kind of stuff. Too much

power into one power bank. Love it. Love it. But if you've made it this far, this is where we break down what happened in the episode. Our biggest

takeaway, some things that we want you to reminisce on and really think about.

And then we'll tell you some updates because we're out here in Hong Kong all the way from the United States. We got updates. We got lots of updates for you guys, which is amazing. Something I want to bring up right off the bat is Ali talking about it's way easier to sell something expensive. I

own a production company. That's why I do during the day and it's really interesting because we deal with like these really large commercial brands. Okay, like we just shot a commercial or we just did a photo campaign for Venmo and in this line of work, if you are bidding on a project and you come in way too short, we kind of briefly touched on this

during the pod and You're seen as like an amateur. You're not really solving like a big problem for these brands. They immediately are like, oh my God, it's too cheap. I can't even imagine that they would be able to do this. It's like, it's a little scary. So if anyone out there, if you're

this. It's like, it's a little scary. So if anyone out there, if you're promising like, oh my God, I'm going to save you $100,000 on your taxes.

Let's say that's your business. You're like a tax consultant. Like how much is it? It's $25. We all going to believe that there's a lot of psychology

is it? It's $25. We all going to believe that there's a lot of psychology behind how you price your product or your offer for sure. And I think I think the big thing that you guys need to realize of whatever phase of this journey you're on and whatever niche that you're in, you want to solve problems for a customer that has more money to spend with you. So

that way you guys can all live on your own terms. You can be financially free and. It's funny because in my line of work, there's this like meme

free and. It's funny because in my line of work, there's this like meme that's like $500 client, $50,000 client. The $500 client is like, hey man, just checking in on the project. Like, want to let you know about everything that's going on. Like it's either life. This is a huge investment. Huge investment

on. Like it's either life. This is a huge investment. Huge investment

for us. And the $50,000 client's like, hey, the invoice has been sent. Appreciate you.

And it's real. It's actually crazy because I've been at both ends of the spectrum. I've charged $50 for videos that I've created. We've charged $50,000 for videos that

spectrum. I've charged $50 for videos that I've created. We've charged $50,000 for videos that we've created. It's a lot easier going with a more going with a

we've created. It's a lot easier going with a more going with a client, it's a lot easier to go with a clientele that understands what their money is being used for and like they see the value in you. You know

what I'm saying? They really understand like, okay, if I spend this money, this is the outcome that I'm trying to get. Yeah. And when it comes to selling cohorts or courses or anything digitally, a service, if you service a customer or an audience, at a higher price point. They're already probably looking to spend their money to like

improve or fix their problem. A lot of times when you're selling something cheap, you're going after an audience that probably doesn't even know that they have a problem.

- They're not even aware of the problem. - Exactly. And it sounds so counterintuitive, but like it really is so much easier to sell a more expensive product because then all you have to do is like focus on the transformation that you're going to give or promise to said individual and you're not really going to get pushback on price. If someone is willing or able to spend five

or $10,000 on a product to solve their problem, they're not worried about the price. You're not really going to get resistance on price. They're just willing to

the price. You're not really going to get resistance on price. They're just willing to spend any amount of money that it takes to fix their problem, once you, or if you're selling something low ticket, then you get a lot of like, ah man, I know I wanna do this, I know this would help me out, but like, ah, like I just bought-- - I

bought, look at the shoes, I just got the off-whites, I got the new off-whites. - I just bought a new lens, like I can't really afford this

off-whites. - I just bought a new lens, like I can't really afford this right now, like maybe later, or you get a lot of like, I can't afford this, but I would like to do it, if you sell something more expensive, They're just like, can this help me or not? Price isn't really an issue. 1000%. I think it's also really important to know you have

issue. 1000%. I think it's also really important to know you have to be great at anything to sell a service. Like you really have, like whatever your promises, you got to be able to deliver that repeatedly. It's not like, oh, I can do that for every one out of 10 people that get my thing. And you know, I'm going to, I'm going to clean their, I'm

my thing. And you know, I'm going to, I'm going to clean their, I'm going to, if I, if you have a car detailing business, let's just use that as an example. It's like service, right? You have a service based industry. And you're

like, hey, it's $650, but this person only goes after really nice cars. They do a crazy job. It takes them hours to do this specific

cars. They do a crazy job. It takes them hours to do this specific thing. Right. you got to do the damn thing. You can't just like, oh, we

thing. Right. you got to do the damn thing. You can't just like, oh, we just half-ass like these three. We only do one really well out of four. Like you got to crush it with whatever thing it is. If

four. Like you got to crush it with whatever thing it is. If

you're in a service-based industry, like you got to knock it out of the park.

That's how you get referrals. That's how people keep coming back to you. And then

your testimonials, testimonials, your business will start to grow without you having to run ads or post content and do all that stuff. I also really valued and liked what he said about when you're crafting your offer, it has to be super tangible because It can't just be like, I'm going to help you overcome your imposter syndrome. Like it's very like foo foo. You when it comes to this, like

syndrome. Like it's very like foo foo. You when it comes to this, like you want to be able to make a promise that, you know, you can track. For example, he's like, I'm going to help you make $100,000 with the

can track. For example, he's like, I'm going to help you make $100,000 with the lifestyle business in 12 months. It's very tangible, very practical, as opposed to something a little bit more foo. foo, foo, woo, woo. Like, hey, I'm going to help you with mindset. Yeah. And I think there used to be a huge misconception

online and Ali references of like, build the audience first and then come out with something yourself. This can work in any industry. I personally really into bonsai trees.

something yourself. This can work in any industry. I personally really into bonsai trees.

Okay. One of the people that I follow, he's like this older gentleman and he makes some of the most calming, soothing videos about bonsais. He has a program teaching you about bonsai trees and like how the art of it and how to sculpt your first tree and do all of this stuff. I don't

know if he sold it later on or if he sold it earlier, but if I was just finding him and I'm getting into this, like, I'd get it and I'd learn about, oh, this is an amazing craft. And I wouldn't think it's weird for this person to sell this thing. He puts out amazing free value on YouTube. He talks about breaking down his trees and why he does

certain things. It wouldn't be weird for him to do that from

certain things. It wouldn't be weird for him to do that from day one or if he has a ton of subscribers, put it out then. It's like you guys all... if whatever the thing is that you're into,

then. It's like you guys all... if whatever the thing is that you're into, you build up knowledge of it, someone's always going to be getting into it and you can help that person with, you can, and you can have it at varying price points. It doesn't just have to be, you know, When in doubt, if you're struggling to think about like what to sell or what

offer you want to create or what niche you want to go into, just think about yourself five years ago. How can you help yourself five years ago, get to where you are now? Because you might not think you have a lot to teach, but like, I think it was with Jeff. He's like, it's the information. What's the fucking term? It's like size. It's when you

information. What's the fucking term? It's like size. It's when you do something so often that it's just second nature to you that you don't realize that beginners like don't understand the very basics of, of what you can do. So yeah, always think about you five years ago. How

can you help that person? Yeah. And yes, start like if you also start with your offer from the get and you figure out what problems specifically you are solving, it makes creating content and it it makes the clarity around your personal brand a lot easier because you're focused on like, OK, if I'm trying to

sell this thing or this is my offer, this is my this is going to be a part of my business. then the content that you need to make to be able to like position yourself as an authority figure or generate leads to that specific product or your offer becomes a lot more clear. If you don't have an offer, you're like, I want to build a personal brand around this,

but like, I don't know, I don't have as much clarity as like what I want the end result to be. - Building leads is the entire thing. - Yes. - In my line of work, if we don't have

thing. - Yes. - In my line of work, if we don't have leads, we don't make these videos for brands. We don't make the photos for brands, we starve. You have to have leads in anything, literally anything. - Any

business. - Any business in the world. I strongly advise that you guys get into some sort of long form piece of content. Because then you guys have an engine to be able to go put onto TikTok and on Instagram and onto LinkedIn and Shorts and do all of that stuff. But it can come from this long form thing. It works for any sort of industry. I'm going to

give you like another example in the service based industry. Let's use a barbershop. If

you ran a barbershop and you're a service based provider, right? I would probably start with like a YouTube series following like the day in the life of the shop and like servicing all of your clients. Then you have let's say you do eight people a day. Fantastic. Now we have eight videos that we can chop up of all these cuts and we can throw them onto Instagram, YouTube shorts.

We could potentially run an ad with them. Now we have eyeballs and we can turn that into traffic to then book for your barber shop. And for a barber, like you have such, it's not low hanging fruit,

shop. And for a barber, like you have such, it's not low hanging fruit, but it's like you have a clear before and after. Boom, boom. People are

coming in. They're hurting, man. Think about how good you look after you get a haircut. Dude, I know. Especially you. Another thing that he touched on is qualifying

haircut. Dude, I know. Especially you. Another thing that he touched on is qualifying leads. And that's something that we learned from Daniel Priestley. And so did he is

leads. And that's something that we learned from Daniel Priestley. And so did he is like, yes, you want a lot of leads. Obviously, the more leads you get equals more business and more money. but you need qualified leads. And

sometimes it's as easy as like having somebody qualify themselves through a form.

And we've also learned this like through Colin from Amalfi Jets. If you make, if you create actually more friction in how you qualify and how hard it is for someone to qualify themselves for your product, it creates a more qualified lead because you know that they want to work with you because they're actually taking the time. If it's a little bit harder to fill out the form, if they

the time. If it's a little bit harder to fill out the form, if they have to take a few extra steps, you know they really want what you're offering.

Without a doubt. Information products are deader than a doornail. I guess so. Chat

kind of destroyed that, huh? Chris Do talked to us about this years ago.

like a year and a half ago, we first had Chris Stowe on our podcast. I remember after chatting, he was like, dude, there is going

podcast. I remember after chatting, he was like, dude, there is going to be a slow decline of anyone who like sells information products. Like

you're going to have to sell a transformation or you're going to have to build community around something, bringing people together, doing live workshops. It can't just be like, Oh, this little informational product, because you can ask any of these AI bots and they're going to tell you exactly what it is. And then,

10 seconds. If information is all people needed, everyone would be a millionaire and have a six pack. Yeah, we'd all be ripped. Yeah. And so something that I underestimated when we first started doing our first cohort to help videographers land bigger and better clients, I thought it was just like, we're going to teach you guys

how to land these bigger clients. What I didn't, or what I underestimated is how valuable the actual community is. And the, um, the, uh, Accountability. Accountability.

And so community and accountability and transformation, like those are so valuable.

And just because to charge more money, you don't have to like provide more information. You have to provide things that are going to help them have a transformation

information. You have to provide things that are going to help them have a transformation faster. Without a doubt. This has been a crazy trip. I still can't believe it's

faster. Without a doubt. This has been a crazy trip. I still can't believe it's like wild to think that we, you know, we've taken the podcast all around the U S we've been to tons of places in the United States. It's

been so fun. And to come out here and take an international baggage fees, bit us in the ass. It's all good. We, okay. We learned, we learned a lot about these bags. Yo, you ever, you guys ever had a carry on get weighed at the airport? What's up with that? What are we doing? Y'all, you know what? I also don't understand what drives me freaking crazy.

doing? Y'all, you know what? I also don't understand what drives me freaking crazy.

We had one bag that let's say was like 15 pounds under. Yes. Okay. Why

can't we do PEMDAS for the, for the baggage, right? We should be able to say, Hey, this bag's 55 pounds. Well, that bag is 20 pounds under. We can do a little mix and match. It's going to the same place.

under. We can do a little mix and match. It's going to the same place.

It's both going under the plane. That was my argument. It didn't work.

Let's say she won. And then she's telling us, you got to take it out of the check bags and put it into the carry-on what does it fucking matter if it's going above or below the plane? It's

still going on the plane. The math isn't math in here. You know what I mean? Dude, I felt like I was in a, we were in a haggle

mean? Dude, I felt like I was in a, we were in a haggle fest. I feel like I was at a farmer's market. We get to the plane,

fest. I feel like I was at a farmer's market. We get to the plane, she's like, could be a thousand. It's going to be 800. I was like, there's no way. They're like, I'm just relaying what the system's telling me. It's like,

no way. They're like, I'm just relaying what the system's telling me. It's like,

sounds like you're just saying a random fucking number. That was crazy. I haggled at this airport, you guys, for like 30 plus minutes. Maybe 45 minutes. And

I get nervous because in the back of my head, I'm like, dude they might tell us that like we can't get on this plane and i'm like chill fig chill but it ended up being fine we ended up having to spend 500 bucks in in overage fees we learned a lot about international travel but dude sebastian maniscalco has the funniest fucking bit about tsa and bag overage he's like dude

you know the best part was she said it was a she was it's a huge safety hazard i go yeah she goes but you could pay no yeah yeah yeah he goes he goes uh He goes, you're worried about what three pounds is, but the dude behind me is fucking 300 pounds and you're worried about a sock. The dude behind me doesn't need a weight limit, which is hilarious.

Dude, I remember I asked her if we were, because there was a lady to our left. They didn't weigh her carry. And I'm like, we just let anybody through. She goes, it's not me. I'm not with them. I'm like, you are.

anybody through. She goes, it's not me. I'm not with them. I'm like, you are.

No, she said different airline. Oh, different airline, different airline. She's like, sir, all airlines are different. Yeah, she's like, you're an idiot. I was like, oh, God.

What has been also really cool is... So podcasting abroad. Awesome. Getting to

explore a new city. Really dope. We've ate some incredible food. Listen, the Michelin star guide, if you're going anywhere... Just been following that. We've had the best duck, best Thai food, best Chinese food. Yeah. They got it going on here in Hong Kong. The food has been immaculate. And we also got to hang out with Daniel Dalen. It's been super fun. It's been awesome. We got

coffee, went out to dinner. That was a blast. And he's really opened our eyes.

Like... Just know that we're gonna start making YouTube videos on another channel. Do you remember we said this? We said this like four months

channel. Do you remember we said this? We said this like four months ago. Yeah, the 505 Studios, whatever. We teased you guys a little bit.

ago. Yeah, the 505 Studios, whatever. We teased you guys a little bit.

Maybe 55 people went over, 100 people went and subscribed. But our first video is going to come out from this trip. Yeah, I think... So we've been vlogging and it's really fun. Our big realization is we love the podcast, but...

everything is featured around the guest. Correct. And we want to give you guys more of us, which is why we started doing the PPD, which I love. Dude, hopefully

you're here. We want to show you guys behind the scenes of growing the podcast and It's different stuff that we're doing with our businesses. We

want to start a fucking clothing line of sorts, merch, and just show you and bring you guys along more and show you guys like our lives out in LA, what we're doing for the podcast, what we're doing for our businesses, give you some more game on personal brand and yeah, It wasn't, it was, it used to be a, this would be really cool. Eventually we'll do it.

Now we're like, oh, it needs to actually be a number one priority. Numero uno

priority. God, it's been such a fun episode. Hey, if you're still here, please hit the subscribe button. Drop us a comment. Leave us a like. Let us

know what your favorite part of the episode was. And we'll see you guys all next week. Peace. Peace.