Jackson Wang: MAGICMAN 2 and Being an Independent Artist | The Zane Lowe Interview

Can I just be commercial for one second for this answer?

>> Whatever you want.

>> I appreciate that match.

I I learned so much.

that man.

that guy, man.

that.

[Music] >> I love this album so much, man. And um I think I think congratulations is in order. you know, you've you've returned

order. you know, you've you've returned with a beautiful deep body of work and I can hear even just from High Alone, the first song, how much love and attention and dedication you put into this music that you've every detail and every

nuance has really mattered to you.

>> It means a lot coming from you. Thank

you.

>> I appreciate it, man. Let's go right back to the very beginning. And you

know, you're searching for a frequency.

You're trying to find a clear frequency, I think, right? There's some stuff going on. You're changing the station till you

on. You're changing the station till you find what how you feel.

>> Yeah. I spent more than a year to to create them. And you know, obviously I

create them. And you know, obviously I was coming from a athlete background to uh training in a K-pop system uh as a trainee to debuting in a K-pop group

then to figuring out being a solo artist.

>> Oh wow. So you go from a competitive sports into just being competitive with yourself.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And that's deep.

>> Yeah. And um it's very different as a solo artist because you know back in that system which was really great a lot

of lot of um great memories from as the group but it was more like everything was so well arranged and structured. I

just needed to show up and work and you know this is the song this is the dance uh practice practice and practice. But

as a solo artist, you know, after especially, you know, joining 88 rising, I felt like that I was going through >> the second trainy days of how to become

creative >> and this time, but it feel a little more like you were training and I say this with the greatest respect to the group and to the early training days that of of of what gave you the

work ethic and you already had that but really enforced what was required. But

when you're in the 88 rising early days, does it feel like, man, I'm actually training to find my own voice now?

>> 100%. That's why I felt like I'm going through the trainy days on how to become a creative more than just music, you know, designs, just being able to think

outside the box. and and uh you know after 10 years of like non-stop um schedules after schedules all packed every sing every every day of the year

um you know I I I figured I needed I needed some rest. I wanted to I I didn't even

some rest. I wanted to I I didn't even have time to reflect on myself and you know I took a I took almost a year off you know just to for myself to breathe

and to think about what what does all what does everything mean what's the purpose of uh what's the value uh you know as a person >> can we pause there and talk a little bit about that because just for a second

because first of all congratulations you know to have self-awareness enough to to pause and to say you know I just need to go and be in my own thoughts for a minute Because it's hard to do that when things are moving really fast and it's intoxicating and your adrenaline's high

and the endorphins of success and attention and everyone's like, "Man, it's working. It's working. It's

it's working. It's working. It's

working." So, you want to keep working and working and working, >> you know? So, you come off the back of that, you're like, "No, you know, I'm going to listen to myself. Take a

break." So, let's just let's just Can I ask you what you did? Like, what what what happened in that year? What were

some key influential moments for you?

even if it was just sitting still and doing nothing and staring at a wall. But

what were the key moments for you that really allowed you to to to capture the space that you so was you seeking?

>> I think it was it was one question at a point I was it was am I the Jackson Wang that people know me of or am I who I think I am?

>> Great question.

>> So I I I I couldn't even answer that.

>> Yeah, it's a great question. And well,

it's it's identity work cuz what you're doing is you go, okay, >> which one should I be? Should I be the person that people want me to be that I

think I am cuz I'm no different to that I'm the same person. But then over here, I've got these feelings and thoughts, right, and emotions I'm assuming that maybe they don't know about. And how do I get them to know that me,

>> right? But and then it came down to a

>> right? But and then it came down to a question. I didn't even know who I was

question. I didn't even know who I was anymore cuz it's so used to that version of me. But am I I wanted to make sure

of me. But am I I wanted to make sure >> that I am that.

>> Yeah.

>> But I didn't even know. So I felt like >> it's a lifelong contract, man. You know,

it's like next thing you know, if you don't ask that question at that point in your life, you could be like 10, 20 years down the road and you're like, "Oh, I really don't know that guy anymore."

anymore." >> Yes. And then I took a year off, you

>> Yes. And then I took a year off, you know, starting uh started writing.

Started writing not just music, like journals uh diaries.

>> Beautiful. and spending really some quality time with my family, my my parents and yeah, I was just writing how

I feel and then I wanted to that's why this album is all about how I feel in in everything in in reality, in society, in industry.

>> Yeah. Cuz it wasn't written during sessions. It was all written during

sessions. It was all written during life.

>> Yes. Yes. And I started writing travel to different places just uh just with few um producers friends and then we lock oursel up and you just keep

writing. The first time that I'm writing

writing. The first time that I'm writing without pressure without without having the idea of I have to use those songs. I

was just writing and writing writing.

>> And also to be able to go in with with these readym made thoughts and emotions this truth that you've already revealed to yourself. So, it's not like, "Okay,

to yourself. So, it's not like, "Okay, guys, let's get the track up and like, what do I want to say?" I always think like in writing sessions, it's kind of fascinating that people put themselves

in this. I'm all for pressure of time.

in this. I'm all for pressure of time.

You execute through pressure of time.

But the idea of like, I've got eight hours today. What am I feeling? Like,

hours today. What am I feeling? Like,

dude, you can't I can't answer that like every day. I can't sit there like on a

every day. I can't sit there like on a Tuesday and go, what am I feeling today?

Like, but you can when you spend a year figuring it out, right? Right.

>> I think it was I I I had the diaries already before I decided to go in set.

>> Yeah, that's what I mean. It's

beautiful. It's already there. It's

there.

>> Life has given you this these thoughts.

>> Yes. And yeah, just writing on how I feel about everything. And and I feel like the first time writing songs for

myself because back back then it was well amaz uh very great songs that I did, you know, for the first couple years of my solo career. Mhm.

>> But now just thinking back, I don't know what it means, you know, and that feeling of being on stage singing so many songs of mine,

but doesn't really resonate with it.

>> I think any artist who is trying to honor the relationship that you have developed with your fan base, it's a special relationship.

>> Mhm.

>> And we feel invested in you. So there

are songs we want to hear cuz they now belong to us. like once my I'm I found my partner to that song or that helped me through a breakup or whatever. I need

that song like I came for that song. But

you're right, you've got to it's got to start with you. You've got to feel it.

>> Exactly. And I think for every other artist, I mean majority of them, they have songs that they the creative process for them to produce is

very personal for a lot of artists. But

I think I went the other way where I was given songs. I was given certain songs,

given songs. I was given certain songs, given certain things to execute.

>> Yeah.

>> And then now time passed, I felt like I needed one of those albums in my life that represents me.

>> Not thinking about, oh, is this going to be a ear candy song or is it going to be are we talking about lollipops, right?

Like I want something that represent me.

You want your kid a you want your blonde. You want your moment where you

blonde. You want your moment where you can sit listen to it and be like, "This is this is this is who I truly am at this moment in my life." And yet you honor the magic man that that that that you've that you've this image of the

magic man that you've created and you've created a part two of this. The artwork

is very affecting. The artwork is violent, >> but it's true.

>> So let's talk about that. It's true to you. How? What's the truth?

you. How? What's the truth?

>> I just feel like the reason why a lot of people even a lot of my audience are asking me why what's magic, man? Why?

Why is the visual like that? And it's

almost like Magic Man represents whoever that's inside me. It's like, for example, I meet the other Jackson today.

>> I see him, but I don't know who he is here.

>> Neither, by the way. I've known him for teen. I have no idea who he is.

teen. I have no idea who he is.

>> You know what I mean? And I think like that whoever that was shaped and the identity of that internal emotion for me, people see Jackson Wang, my audience

sees me. Yeah.

sees me. Yeah.

>> But how do I really feel? I don't think anybody I didn't even know that.

>> So it's the most personal thing you can show them is that artwork.

>> Yeah. And and in that time, you know, uh being in this field alone for like more than 10 years, you know, always traveling and yeah, I missed out a lot

in my youth dealing, you know, when I debuted when I was 19. I didn't know what industry was. I didn't know.

>> You're a child star, dude. I'm sorry. 19

is Yeah, there's maturity there, but you don't >> It's not enough to be able to to to look back on that time with wisdom and say, "I knew what I was doing."

>> Yeah. And I felt lost.

That's how I felt inside me.

>> What do the lights feel like on those days when you know when you're carrying that truth, but on the outside and you beh and you're showing up for work and you're doing the shows and it's bright and it's loud. What does it feel like?

The only bright and light that I saw in 10 years is being on stage having my audience there. That was it. But what

audience there. That was it. But what

killed me internally was behind the scenes, you know, just I wasn't used to it. I'm not I don't know. I didn't know

it. I'm not I don't know. I didn't know how to deal with it. Like the system, this the the reality of everything, the humanity of everything. So yeah, that's

why I created this album. And also this album is very self-serving for me. Yeah,

>> great. Then it works for us.

>> But after this album, I'm I'm I'm open to make a lot of uh Lollipop songs. Hey,

hey please.

>> Yeah, I'm I'm willing. I'm willing.

>> Don't worry, man. Dancing Jackson's

going to be back in a heartbeat. Don't

worry about you. I got you. I don't

think so. I don't think so. I think once you cross this threshold, I think it's uh I think you've I think you know which way you're going. Yeah. And and also,

you know, I for for majority of my solo career, obviously, I grew with 88 Rising, you know, inspired me a lot, but at the same time, I was like a one-man team. I had to

team. I had to >> I direct all my stuff. I write

treatments for all my stuff. I wrote I basically, you know, the the craziest thing is the prep the preparation for everything. I just need to do

everything. I just need to do everything.

>> Yeah.

>> And you know, there's pros and cons when versus if you're if you're in a system, you have everything taken care of. You

just need to show up. you just need to execute and focus on, you know, um, delivering the best you can. But as a solo artist, independent artist,

it's so much work, you know, there's so much stuff that I would have to edit even my behind the scenes. I would have to post this and just make sure that it's a oneman label, you know.

>> By the way, I think that that is the the I think that's right. And and I know it's tough. I know it's hard work, but

it's tough. I know it's hard work, but man, you know, if you love something, you you'll put it in.

>> I really love it, and it's I've been doing that for more than 5 years, >> but it feels like now I feel like I need help.

>> I really need help.

>> But it's also really cool to get to that point because now you can take now that you're open to to to great tasteful collaboration and teamwork, you're going to learn. There's only so much you can

to learn. There's only so much you can learn from yourself.

>> Mhm.

>> You know. Yes,

>> it's actually finite.

>> You need people around you to be able to go like, "Hey man, what about this?" And

and if you go, "Actually, I'm not so sure about it." And then you think about it and you go, "Actually, I do like that." Boom. That's a revelation. That's

that." Boom. That's a revelation. That's

huge.

>> Yes. I I really need to a point that I've been doing this for four, five, six years. I at this point in my life, I

years. I at this point in my life, I feel like I need I need a normal like I need someone I need some somebody around me that can just go back and forth forth

and and and to figure things out.

>> Has it felt lonely? It must have felt lonely at times.

>> Always. Always. And a lot of people a lot of people have this misconception about me. Oh, Jackson, look at his

about me. Oh, Jackson, look at his visuals. Look at his this uh look at his

visuals. Look at his this uh look at his performance. Look at his connection and

performance. Look at his connection and resources. I had nothing. you know, they

resources. I had nothing. you know, they think he probably has like 50 60 people behind him, you know, but I don't I wish >> when you got to spend time with family,

when you got to reconnect with family, what a beautiful what a beautiful experience, too, you know. I think it's the great sacrifice of anybody who chases their dream, especially when it requires the kind of work ethic that

something like what you do does and the travel that's required. The great

sacrifice when all is said and done is the relation is the toll it takes on the relationships the people that know you best.

>> Yes. I that's why I live with them >> in both of my parents. They were also national team athletes and and we live together. And then I think that one year

together. And then I think that one year >> for that very reason.

>> Yeah. I live with them because there's another there's a song in my album that's named uh after them and and through that through that year I was

just thinking like there are a lot of thoughts that I've never really thought about my parents this song called Sophie Raiki.

>> Yeah. My mom's called Sophia, my dad is Raiki. And that one year I

Raiki. And that one year I started thinking, you know, we it's it's interesting that we're we're we're born, but we we always tend to think like our parents will take care of everything as

as a kid. Oh, they'll take care of everything. But we never actually

everything. But we never actually thought about when they first had us, they had no idea.

>> Zero. I'm a parent, dude. Zero. It's

like the thing that most humans will I mean, a lot of humans will have that experience. It's it's if you're lucky,

experience. It's it's if you're lucky, it is a part of the order of things. And

then when it happens, >> it's like you're the first parent on earth.

>> Yeah.

>> You're like, what is going on?

>> Yeah. And probably they were they were in their youth, you know, they had dreams. You think they never went to a party before. You think they never never

party before. You think they never never flirt. They never like played around.

flirt. They never like played around.

>> Yeah. Of course.

>> Of course they did. But I think, you know, it's that I think at the end it's like that responsibility of the parents that when I grew up, I thought, you know, especially during my puberty, I'm

like, "Oh, they don't they don't know this. They don't know what the trend is.

this. They don't know what the trend is.

They don't they're not uh uh uh they're they're they're not not fashion, they're not like great taste or whatever." But

then I think it was it's a sacrifice, you know, that that they it changed their entire life, you know, just having me and my brother. And um

and I've seen it as a kid and just entirely just in general. I just feel like us and our parents, it feels like we're on the same street, but they're just further up. It's a it's a it's a cycle.

>> Yeah, that's right. And look, I think that's and that's the right way to look at it in my opinion. I mean, you have to establish your identity in order to leave home and go and achieve what you want to achieve, but you have the you have the the the the self-awareness,

emotional intelligence to bring it home and to not and not abandon it all together, you know. And I think that's really special. And I think I'd love to

really special. And I think I'd love to I'd love to to know, if you're willing to share, how your parents responded to you returning home at a moment when you needed that space,

cuz I'm sure that they saw when you got home the Jackson that you hadn't even seen yet. M

seen yet. M >> they saw what where you were and what you were missing and you needed a year to find it. Do you know what I mean?

>> Spending time more and more quality time with them definitely healed me a lot cuz it wasn't there were not talking to Jackson when I was home.

>> I felt like I was a like as a son.

>> Yeah. The kid.

>> The baby. No matter how much I age, I'm still the baby to them. My brother is almost 40, >> you know. Same.

>> Same.

>> Yeah. And

yeah, you know, and especially, you know, uh, Asian traditional family also, uh, the friends around me, it's so hard to say I love you to your parents.

>> Why is that, do you think?

>> Yeah, I don't know. All my friends are like, it's it's pretty I don't to them.

It's a thing like it's >> pretty rare.

>> Do you think generationally it's starting to shift a little bit that there's a little bit more openness when it comes to that kind of like outward affection?

>> Even my friends, they they still can't do that. It took them really it took

do that. It took them really it took them really long to really, you know, think about and be brave enough probably when they're drunk or whatever and to

call dad and for the first time say, "Dad, >> I want to tell you something.

>> I love you, Dad." You know, it takes them like probably five, six, 10 years to to say that.

>> But I make sure that I say it every day.

you know, after that one year, you know, reflecting and and even a lot of my friends, you know, they probably just uh in general they all they they always

tend to think the parents will be there forever and then it get to a point where oh parents is sick and then they visit but then it's too late. That's a very very very common very powerful

realization when you realize I mean I'm not to make it about me but I'm just going through a very similar thing like I always had a strong relationship with my mom but she's at that point in her life where it's the order of things and

I'm realizing now as I'm going home like man I it's hard not to think about I could have spent a bit more time.

>> Yeah.

>> I could have gone home a few more times.

You know what I mean? And I had and I had a lot a lot of dreams about that where I had a crazy dream the when I was

in Japan. Uh I woke up crying because

in Japan. Uh I woke up crying because it's like me talking to my mom on WeChat like like on iMessage like messaging

and then I woke up in the dream people told me like oh mom's gone. My brother

called me mom's gone. And I couldn't believe it. What do you mean? I was just

believe it. What do you mean? I was just talking to her like a writ and then that feeling of you going back to that chat

>> and you realizing whoever that's texting you will never text you again.

>> Dude, I mean sometimes sometimes I scroll on my phone and I see old numbers. That's a heavy one

numbers. That's a heavy one >> because I don't want to delete it. I

don't want to delete the numbers.

>> Yeah, >> dude. We're lucky. It's a gift to be

>> dude. We're lucky. It's a gift to be here. You know, every day matters. And

here. You know, every day matters. And

>> yeah, >> when I listen to this album, I really get a sense that you have accepted that and taken the opportunity to make something to that you're truly proud of,

not just another album cuz it's time.

>> You took your time.

>> I took my time. I healed

>> and and I think it's important for me to share to my audience >> how what happened and why Magic Man, why

the visuals and how I overcome everything? How how

did I recover from it? That's that's why in the entire album there's four chapters to it.

>> Let's talk about the chapters. Let's

talk about Let's go through them one at a time and and share with us all as fans. um what you want us to know about

fans. um what you want us to know about this about this chap the chapterization of Magic Man 2 >> just in general the entire album is about just

going through life and there's so many emotions in life where the chapter one let's say it's manic highs going into losing losing control going into

realization and going into acceptance and that applies to everything in life that's just life in general and Um there's every single song there's a

message to it according to the chapters and that's how I feel about love. That's how

I feel about this. This is this is what happened to me. This is my my situation, my scenario, my experience. And at last everything comes down to the last

chapter. Acceptance is accepting

chapter. Acceptance is accepting everything.

>> Then we get Made Me a Man. Yeah.

>> Which is a powerful powerful song. I

mean, it really is almost like a It's like you have stared at those things that you were scared of that were anxietyinducing that you couldn't talk

about and it's like you're kind of making peace with that time in your life a little bit on that song.

>> Yeah. The last song is made me a man and it's chapter four acceptance accepting it and moving on and that's every situation in life and something happened

you learn you you first of all you get very emotional about it then you realize a lot of things and at the end you know what what has happened can't be undone you know so you just accept it you learn

and you move on with it and whatever the good and the bad made who you are today >> when you say and I and obviously there's a lot in these songs it's very personal to you. So, you go as as far as you want

to you. So, you go as as far as you want to go. Um, and it's important to us as

to go. Um, and it's important to us as fans and listeners to the music that becomes ours, too. Um, but when you say, you know, I still miss the mark, that that really jumps out to me, you know, because it's it's a it's the kind of

observation people make when they're sort of accepting their flaws and it's not just the conspiracy that surrounds people, but ultimately there's a real there's an acceptance that I that, you know, I'm culpable here for all of this, too.

>> So, what what what do you mean when you say that? And it doesn't have to be as

say that? And it doesn't have to be as granular as as specific. But what does that mean to you? That sent that that that statement. I still missed the mark.

that statement. I still missed the mark.

>> It means like I there was a there's um I was living in a certain way where I was so confident in what I was doing, how I felt, what I think is right and what I

think is wrong. But then, you know, life is just so dynamic. At the end, you realize, oh, it was not the world that I understand is not what it what it's like.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You were control trying to control it, >> right? But and then that's when you

>> right? But and then that's when you learn to just accept and just move on with it.

>> I love the way it finishes as well, you know, live the magic. Accept just accept that the the unknown is kind of the whole point.

>> Yeah. So, okay, Jackson Wang, you're back and you've got, you know, a beautiful album that people are going to love this album, you know, cuz it's you.

It's really you.

>> It's really me. But the thing also, you know like the the other day, you know, I was talking to my team. Shout out to my team. Troy Peter,

team. Troy Peter, >> by the way, you got a great team. I

walked in there.

>> That's a great team. That's a real team.

That's like st out front of four seasons looking like a damn football team.

That's like literally in the back there like holding it down.

>> They're my partners.

>> I like that.

>> Yeah, partners.

>> Yeah.

>> So, yeah, you're the guy that like I get the feeling that when you roll into a spot with your crew, >> you're at the you're you're at the head with everybody and not in the middle being surrounded by everybody.

>> I am.

>> That's how you felt.

>> That's how I feel.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. Or are you surrounded by everybody? I I

everybody? I I >> I think I was surrounded by everyone.

>> I always remember I was backstage in award show. I don't know. I really like

award show. I don't know. I really like this. I like this.

this. I like this.

You know, you see these entouragees move as one and they're just like big organisms. >> Some sometimes you even know who's in the middle of them because there's like 12, 15, 20 people just moving like one and it's like who is that? Like I can't

even see who it is. Is that DOA? Who is

that? Is that you know Dustin? Who is

it? And then there's this big commotion and this crew is moving like an arrow down this corridor and Drake is at the front and I'm like there's a guy who

leads his team and I loved to see that cuz I'm like he's not afraid. He's not

he's not in the middle being surrounded.

He was like nah I'm out front like this is my crew. I loved that. It just showed real to me at least it showed character at that time.

>> I'm going to emphasize that from now on.

Make sure that I'm walking in front of the pack.

>> You do you. But I just think it's cool.

It's like, man, you know, like I'm okay.

>> Yes.

>> Anyway, you were talking to your team.

You were saying cuz I was saying people going to love this album.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I was talking to my team also, you know, the the friends producers on on this album like Sak like

uh Bae, uh Lou, AZ, Piscy, Demac, >> beautiful music, by the way. I mean,

everyone's really surrounded you on this record in a great way.

>> Yeah. And uh it was amazing making them.

And we're just having a conversation the other day like this. Like to them in a in a in a third

this. Like to them in a in a in a third person perspective, they think, Jackson, you're let's be very honest, you're creating a Kiwi. You're not creating Apple cuz Apple's for everyone,

>> right?

>> You know, you're you're creating an Kiwi. So, don't expect it can sell like

Kiwi. So, don't expect it can sell like Apple. But the point is, but my point is

Apple. But the point is, but my point is it's not meant for that.

>> I think that's a trick. I think that's a trick. I don't want to speak for

trick. I don't want to speak for everybody else, but I think that's a trick because >> this is an apple, bro. This is This is This is universal humanity wrapped up in

brilliant modern pop music. I'm sorry,

but it's like there are real smashes on this thing and there's real depth on this thing. I said to you before we got

this thing. I said to you before we got on the air, like it's really beautifully contrasting. I think if I was working

contrasting. I think if I was working with you, I'd be like, "Dude, you're making a Kiwi because I just want you to stay on the track and not try to make an apple.

>> It's gonna be an apple no matter what you do."

you do." >> It's It's very important to hear that today cuz honestly speaking, because the album album is done, you know, 8 days uh a week before it's launched, I was

really thinking about, you know what, after this I can make anything. I can

make I'll make like 50 apples.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. But after hearing from you, maybe I should just >> I think you're just going to I think you're just going to follow your heart.

Isn't that why you took the year off in the first place? To be able to listen to your heart, not listen to everything going on around you.

>> Yes.

>> To break the spell.

>> Yes.

>> And by the time you get to buck, get out of here. You know, by the way, you don't mind if I swear to you. I

think I heard you like to curse.

>> Oh, I do. I do. I just didn't know I'm allowed in this building.

>> Please be yourself in all ways in this building. Just be 100% yourself

building. Just be 100% yourself >> with that many eyes out there looking at me.

>> They don't care.

>> I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I'm

just trying to keep it loose.

>> Probably if I go out there, I'll be like, "Jackson, why the are you?"

>> There he is, ladies and gentlemen. Would

you say that?

>> He's in the building. He's in a building. He's in a Cuz you Because you

building. He's in a Cuz you Because you know why? Cuz I Because all I want to do

know why? Cuz I Because all I want to do when I meet someone is to just meet their true self.

>> I am. I am. I am.

>> You know, and I can tell I can tell. I

knew for the second I met you, you know.

>> Um this is, you know, this is a great first this is a great first hang. Buck

though, man. That's an apple.

>> That's an apple.

>> That's a smasher, dude. Dude, that's one of those ones that I reckon like there there are real people out there, real ones who have made real dance floor records, real moments that will be like, I wish I'd done that one. I think that's

a full keeper.

>> I really like love that song.

>> Yeah, same. I did it with Dilig, which is amazing, too. I want to talk about that relationship. I know you just went

that relationship. I know you just went to India. You spent some time out there.

to India. You spent some time out there.

I love that. I love I love India.

>> I love that you're a traveler and you're curious. Let's talk about your

curious. Let's talk about your impressions of India and why you went and what you love about it. It's because

it's one of those territory that I've really wanted to visit also like Indonesia and also Japan where there's a difference between a foreign artist

touring in a new territory, right? Where

whoever that comes to your show will be the ones that know of you already, but every single country or every single city, they have their own entertainment

like loco culture entertainment culture.

And I really wanted to to dive deep into it, you know, to >> So what prompted that? Just a huge curiosity. You seem like a very curious

curiosity. You seem like a very curious person.

>> I am I I wanted to obviously to me right now every sing every every every place, every uh every country, every city honestly in some way if it felt the same

to me in the past 10 years because it's always been venues, air uh airports, hotels, you know, like it's a world within a world, right?

>> Yeah. shopping mall, same brand, every single country.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I think it's demoralizing sometimes. I'm just like, wow, there's

sometimes. I'm just like, wow, there's got to be more than this.

>> Exactly. So, I'm like, yo, just don't don't bring me to tourist places. Bring

me to the local local. I want to live like a loco.

>> So, what is Okay, so what was that?

Where did you go in India? What was

that?

>> I went to I basically went everywhere. I

went everywhere. The night life, you know, I went on the streets. I I was trying to avoid my team so that I can try like I could go out alone with my friends so I could feel like a loco.

Yeah. But they

just like we're up to the races now, bro.

>> I don't Hey, someone's not happy in the room.

>> It's cool, man. I think I think I don't want to speak for your team, man, but I think they just want you to be happy, right? I mean, so so so what what was

right? I mean, so so so what what was the what was the wildest what was the wildest not wild isn't like, yo, that was a wild night. I'm not talking about the hangover one, two, or three, but what was like the most

h vivid, visceral, emotional, where did you go that was like, this is a feeling.

Wow, I'm so glad I came here for this.

>> Oh, I went to um obviously I'm a big fan of night life and I went to um I think five clubs in one night I think in 4 hours.

>> Good effort, >> right? But then the more like the

>> right? But then the more like the starting from the third, fourth, fifth club, the music was different.

>> It wasn't like like Bollywood music. It

was some experimental stuff that it was just sound.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or maybe I was too drunk. But

drunk. But it was just >> It doesn't matter. You remember it how you remember it.

>> It was just sound and I had like food thrown into my mouth, but it was on fire, you know? It was like

you know? It was like >> Okay. So, it is hangover one, two, and

>> Okay. So, it is hangover one, two, and three, >> right? It was like um vegetables or

>> right? It was like um vegetables or what? Like Yeah. It was very And uh uh

what? Like Yeah. It was very And uh uh Hanumakind was there too.

>> I love him.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He was here last time, right?

>> He's the best.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And he showed me around.

And yeah, that was a very wild night.

And I forgot what we drank, but it was very Indian. It was very Indian.

very Indian. It was very Indian.

>> They really, and I mean this with love, they're they're I'm going to go next year. They've been trying for the last

year. They've been trying for the last few years to get me out of >> Hanaman's on my case. And like there's like they're all like, "Dude, come on.

Come on. Come on."

>> Yes.

>> So, I'm going to get some tips from you.

I want the flaming food.

>> And there's al like this street food is is out of control. What a brilliant and beautiful thing to be able to do to just get off the treadmill and go and see what the world has to actually say.

>> Yeah. Never one tip for me from me, you know, personal experience, never order room service again. It's too safe. Like

then might as well just eat at home, right? Why are you traveling?

right? Why are you traveling?

>> Just go there and and you know, destroy your gut and and and you get you get I mean feel it.

>> It's also very rarely any good.

>> It's not often very good. Here's the

thing. It's like

>> it's boring. You're the 85th chicken breast of the day.

>> Yes. And Caesar salad.

>> Now, here's the thing. Let's talk about Caesar salads. Caesar salads and bread.

Caesar salads. Caesar salads and bread.

Two very important uh orders. You can

tell the quality of a restaurant by the bread they put on the table at the beginning of the meal.

>> Yes.

>> Straight up. It doesn't have to be warm, fresh, rosemary tinted. It just has to be their bread.

>> Oh, you can tell their quality, like what level kind of meal you're going to get based on what's in the basket. For

sure. It's from the expression of the guy, the persons that bring you the meal.

>> Very important as well. I mean, do they really know their menu? Do they really understand the culture of the restaurant? Very important.

restaurant? Very important.

>> But you get the bread. I've had the most I've had artisal bread delivered to me.

I'm like, I don't even need to see the menu. I'll just have the bread.

menu. I'll just have the bread.

>> That's fine. But I want to know like like when you go to an Italian restaurant and they give you that bread and they've been serving that bread for 40 years. I'm like, I'm in for a great

40 years. I'm like, I'm in for a great meal. Caesar salad. Same thing. A good

meal. Caesar salad. Same thing. A good

Caesar salad, great restaurant. Bad

Caesar, you can really a Caesar salad up.

>> You're a foodie.

>> Yeah, I do.

>> It's important to you that whatever you do now in your life, right? I'm asking,

but I'm assuming now that you work around the experience of eating well and taking care of yourself, right? Because

because when you start, food isn't the priority, right? It's like work.

priority, right? It's like work.

>> Yeah. I I I love food, but I don't really care if it's a decent restaurant or what. I I

I don't have a I'm not a guy that I don't like. What?

Decent, fancy restaurants.

>> You need to grow up. Now, here's

>> No, no, no, no. Really, I don't like it.

>> You know what I hate? Can I be real?

>> I want you to be real.

>> You go to this restaurant, expensive as >> Yeah.

>> Give you a big ass plate. Yeah,

>> one rice >> and explain 45 minutes to you. What?

Where? Where did it come from? I

appreciate that, but >> what the man?

>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

>> Don't apologize for telling your truth.

>> No, what is that?

>> Yeah, what is that?

>> Yeah, that's why I like to go I love to go to night markets in Asia, especially Chinese food where entire bowl, the fried rice is like like like a mountain.

>> It's a pillow.

>> Yeah.

>> You put your head in there, go to sleep.

>> Yes. I love that. I don't like sir. This

is a fish from Dead Sea and then is going to from 50 years ago. The chef

used this specific samurai sword to cut it open.

>> Hey, please delete what I said.

>> No, no, no, no. Because because

>> offend anybody.

>> No. Okay, so let's talk about that.

Let's talk about that for a sec, though.

There's songs on here >> that tell the truth.

>> They're not offensive, but they're also not pulling any punches, right? Mhm. Oh,

you're talking about GBA.

>> Yeah. And other And there's others as well.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Hate to live.

>> Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. So,

you're going to offend people in life, man.

>> Yes.

>> You just are. And so, let's just talk a little bit about the different eras of life. When you look back at the at the

life. When you look back at the at the person who started out, there was probably a lot of fear attached to that experience, right? Of like

experience, right? Of like >> when I first started.

>> Yeah. Of like, I don't want to say the wrong thing. I don't want to

wrong thing. I don't want to >> I didn't know what I was doing. I I had no direction. And I had no navigation. I

no direction. And I had no navigation. I

was just sprinting.

>> Did you ever did you ever wish during the hardest times that you'd stayed in competitive sports? Cuz it was a choice.

competitive sports? Cuz it was a choice.

You could have gone to Stanford.

>> Yeah. Um

>> you had a choice. And when you make a choice, >> did you ever regret it?

>> No. Because I know in my in my gut that I wanted to entertain and perform.

>> You knew in your heart.

>> Even when I was fencing, I felt like I was performing.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um let's talk about some of the others. What's your favorite song right now on the record if you had to put press play on the record?

>> Made me a man.

>> Yeah, >> Made Me a Man. I think that's a conclusion.

>> Proud of that.

>> Um, that I feel like that's a strong conclusion for me. That's it's a highlight. It's what the entire album

highlight. It's what the entire album means.

>> I think the one two punch of hate to love and to one time is pretty powerful.

It sits in the middle for me with purpose. It It really to me those two

purpose. It It really to me those two songs are friends. I feel like they know each other. Do you know what I mean? the

each other. Do you know what I mean? the

entire the way I arranged it for the entire album, it never stops. If you

start playing, it just never stops till the end and then it just plays again.

You know how like between songs there's like a what 0.2 millisecond of Yeah. I

didn't like that.

>> You're so in the weeds on it, man. I

love it. You're so

>> Kiwi.

>> It's Kiwi.

>> It's not, Dude. It's Apple.

>> It's Kiwi.

>> I'm telling you, it's Apple. Just give

it time.

>> Yeah.

>> How What's your relationship like with time now? Because when you started, you

time now? Because when you started, you don't have any >> m >> go to work, wake up, do a show, go to a mall, >> eat some fancy food, right?

>> Caesar salad.

>> Caesar salad.

>> You took back time when you took that year?

>> Are you willing to give the music grace?

If it is a kiwi for 6 months or a year and it takes 3 years to become an apple, is that is that a success to you? Are

you able to understand that now?

>> Yeah. the the more they talk about this is a Kiwi and that I don't feel like I think it's a struggle, you know, but honestly for me internally, I don't

really care cuz I feel like it's so meaningful to me, you know, but at the end but at the same time, the more they talk about it, I felt like maybe they're right, you know, and it's so hard to not

care about results, too.

>> It's hard, you know? So, yeah, there's apples on this.

It's just beautiful music, dude. It's

honest. Sophie Ricky, honest. Made me a man. Honest. High alone. Honest. It's

man. Honest. High alone. Honest. It's

fun. fun,

>> but I don't regret it. So, I'm proud of this. I'm proud of what I made uh for

this. I'm proud of what I made uh for Magic Man, too. It's personal.

>> I think it's going to be really important for you as an artist.

>> I needed that. Yeah, I needed this album. Every great artist has to take

album. Every great artist has to take risks in order to be their true self and get past what we want from you every time because we liked it.

>> Oh, my parents didn't even hear Sophie Ricky yet.

>> Why haven't you played?

>> No, cannot. It has to be open when it's released cuz I I'm planning to make I wrote a treatment. I want it to be an animation.

>> Oh man, I can already tell where that's going to be.

>> Yeah.

>> Special. Because because you couldn't capture the emotion you want to get with real cameras and real reality. You're

going to that's what animation is for, right? To reach into the other areas of

right? To reach into the other areas of the mind.

>> Yes.

>> What do you do when you're not creating?

What's what is what is life for you now that you've established some some ground rules? Like do you binge watch? Do you

rules? Like do you binge watch? Do you

What's your exercise? Like what's life?

>> I still fence.

>> You still fence?

>> I still fence.

>> How high intensity cardio is fencing?

Oh. Um, I used to run on treadmill, but I feel like it's too boring for me.

>> Yeah, it's really boring.

>> Yeah. And like every two seconds.

>> That's why I like boxing. Boxing is like you have to just to stay on your feet literally and think all the time. It's

great.

>> But for for running for me on treadmills, like every two second I would have to look at my Apple Watch like how many calories? How many

calories? But in fencing, you're just busy.

>> Yeah. All the time.

>> You know, you're you're you're you're playing a chess game, >> right? But then after like 2 hours, you

>> right? But then after like 2 hours, you see it's like more than 1,000 calories >> cuz you've been using your mind. That's

why cuz it's like it's it's it's it's cardio for the brain.

>> Yeah. So fencing I think it's the best cardio for me. And you're wearing a lot and you're wearing a helmet, you know.

So >> the Olympic tattoo.

>> Yeah.

>> In honor of >> Oh, the first youth Olympic that I went as competing >> 20 2010.

>> Where did you end up?

>> Uh 11th.

>> 11th.

>> Yeah. I lost to um lost to team Russia.

>> Do you remember much about that about that match?

>> 154.

>> Wow. one point.

>> Tell us a story about the about tell us about the end of that match.

>> Hey, like you want me to honest honest or you're >> Dude, are we not honest with each other?

>> Are we commercial?

>> Are we honest with each other?

>> Can we just be commercial for one second for this answer?

>> Whatever you want.

>> I appreciate that match.

I I learned so much.

that match.

that guy, man. that.

Cuz back back then the the fencing mask this is transparent. But now it's not.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what are you seeing in your opponent >> in the middle? The last point I parried it >> and I hit the plastic. So there you

can't score with the plastic but I hit hit that and I lost the point.

One point I was so mad I was crying and then I came down like reporters are interviewing me. How do you feel? The

interviewing me. How do you feel? The

you mean? How I feel man? I just

went through hell. And 2 seconds after that, you ask me how do I how do I feel?

>> I know you're just doing your job, but what do you want me to say?

Congratulations.

>> So they they have uh they have a picture of me.

>> They So after that interview, they took a photo cuz that that that picture is still on the internet.

>> What are you doing?

>> I was so pissed. I was just looking at looking at him.

>> It's tough, man. Listen,

fair play to you for getting to that level. It's so hard to get through the

level. It's so hard to get through the door when it gets to that level of competition.

>> I started really young. I started at 10 and then by 13, 14, I lived in uh for a year and a half, two years in Budapest cuz I was training there as well.

>> So I didn't really go to school. I

didn't even graduate high school >> because I was just competing, competing, competing.

>> So let me ask you about friendship.

>> Mhm. Because as somebody who was hyperfocused on achieving at a young age either with your fencing and then

into training to be a performer.

You've mentioned several times that you didn't really have a conventional childhood. You didn't really get to

childhood. You didn't really get to enjoy >> compared to my friends.

>> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So, how

did that shape >> me >> friendship? the idea of friendship to

>> friendship? the idea of friendship to you and how you relate and how you trust and create real friendship.

>> I grew up, you know, as an athlete then to as a trainee then to a group. So my

I'm always surrounded by a lot of people.

>> Is that friendship though?

>> I mean yeah but the more I think time time defines but then you know the more I age I feel like it's uh it's very tricky. It's very tricky

because friends through time you you build that trust and everything but then it only takes one moment to destroy everything.

>> Yeah. And real friendship can get past it but >> that's the big test.

>> Yeah. And also like people everyone have like different agenda you know different dreams different purposes in life. And

if that's not aligned then then it's tricky. So that's why I think after 30

tricky. So that's why I think after 30 I'm more neutral. I'm more neutral. I'm

not like back in the days obvious obviously I'm an extrovert >> if I build a relationship or I would go all in and I'll open my heart wide

>> but I think now it's more more neutral you know I'll give it more time to to to sit. So when you went into um into the

sit. So when you went into um into the into into the kind of performing arts and you got out of I'd imagine did that feel to some degree almost like it was it was kind of a relief because when

you're sort of in in competitive sports you're training you're on your own in Budapest trained to be the best in the world. That's the goal

world. That's the goal >> and then every single match you're you're one slightly misjudged parry away from heartbreak.

>> Yeah. I think that's why I think like athletes are very crucial. Like if

you're the top 32 in the world, then you're about the same. Honestly, it's

just ranking one parry away.

>> Yeah. One Yeah. One parry away.

>> Sorry to keep bringing it up.

>> One parry away.

>> Just one bad ill judged parry, you know, could just change the whole course of your life. But wait, we can move on.

your life. But wait, we can move on.

It's fine.

>> Yeah. You're just like, if you're the top 32, you're around the same. But and

then it depends on the day of that uh tournament, you know, the weather, right? Your condition, how's your

right? Your condition, how's your warm-up, you know, like it just there's so many different >> factors that can affect the result. So

>> that's why I always feel like, oh, you're the Olympic champion or you're the world champion, you're you're the gold medal medalist that day. It only

means that you're the champion that day, that moment.

>> It worked for you that day. If you do that again tomorrow, you probably can't.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So that's why it's and you know athletes are if you get you you get injured really easily and that could be, you know, the end of your career.

>> I'd really like to talk to you about how you're going to bring this album to life now that it lives. I mean, how are you going to bring it to people, shows, all that stuff?

>> If I get to, you know, have the opportunity to do a tour, you know, >> isn't that up to you? I mean, it is, but obviously, hate to repeat this again,

but it's Kiwi, you know. So, if whoever that wants to come eat Kiwi, I'll make sure that the experience of the tour is

different. It it will feel like a live

different. It it will feel like a live uh movie arrangement.

You come in super cinematic and it's >> enhanced. Enhanced.

>> enhanced. Enhanced.

>> It will feel like movie.

>> Yeah. That's going to be a a beautiful way for you to to spend your creative energy now that this album is done. I

can imagine you're already thinking about it, right? Because creatives don't stop thinking.

>> Yes, I'm already thinking. So,

hope you know after pe more people would come eat kiwi with me.

>> Eat my kiwi, >> please. I hope more people will come and

>> please. I hope more people will come and eat my kiwi.

>> Sure. There's a lot of people excited to eat your kiwi. I just um I can imagine that going out on tour now that you've gone to parts of the world without that routine >> is going that you'll be able to apply some of that has it change the way you

look at how you're going to move now travel within this framework of Jackson Wang the artist versus Jackson Wang >> the passport the plane India late night clubbing flaming food

>> I don't think I'll have time you know when I'm on tour everything obviously is is very packed and also after 30

Not not complaining, but like after 31 after 31, I feel like every time >> after having a meal, >> I fall asleep very easily.

>> Yeah, it's a great thing.

>> Yeah.

>> So good.

>> I I hate it.

>> Postmeal naps and Oh, no. Give into it.

Except I hate it.

>> What's number four? Acceptance. Channel

chapter 4. Acceptance. Okay,

bro.

>> No, I can't control it. That's the

problem.

>> 20 minute Jackson nap. No, I hope it's 20 minutes, but it won't be 20 minutes.

It goes on like 3, four hours. No,

>> that's not a nap.

>> No, that's not a nap.

>> No, it's a full It's a full It's a false. It's Arian.

false. It's Arian.

>> I can't control that after 30. I never

used to have that.

>> That's called the gift of life, my friend. The longer it goes on, the more

friend. The longer it goes on, the more it aches, but the more grateful we are for it.

>> Maybe it's the carbs.

>> I'm really, really, really uh grateful for this opportunity to get to know you.

Right. Just the beginning, you I I know you don't do an enormous amount of this stuff, but man, just come back. The

second conversation is always better than the first. And by the 10th one, man, it's not even like we're having >> I come back with >> more sugary candy apples.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're talking about blue sky.

>> I'll be like, Jackson, what happened?

>> Marshmallow marshmallow.

>> What's with all this sugar, man? What

happened?

>> Some reality hit. Reality hit. You're

going to come in with a peroxide flaptop and like really fancy sunglasses and a space suit and be like, I'm really proud of this pop album I just made, man. I'll

be like, what happened to my friend that I met like two years ago? He was a great guy. I like that guy. He was a good guy.

guy. I like that guy. He was a good guy.

I mean, sure, I'll talk to this guy, but who is this guy?

>> Don't call me Jackson. I'm Jay Wang.

>> Jpop.

>> Hey, I've had a really good time hanging out with you, man. This has been a really, really good.

>> It's an honor to be here, you know.

Thanks for having me.

>> We're way past that, man. and we're way past that. Is there anything that we

past that. Is there anything that we didn't talk about? Because I know that this is a it's a really important opportunity for you to speak to fans and I'm really grateful to be that conduit to be that channel to be able to give that opportunity to you and we've talked

a lot about, you know, Caesar salads and fencing and that guy and it's been fun, but I want to make sure that you say what you want to say.

>> He's actually a very uh nice and kind man.

>> They can't diss. He can't diss and kiss, man. I can't. It's too late. It's too

man. I can't. It's too late. It's too

late. Too late.

>> Remember in life you're going to offend some people.

>> Just sometimes just got to be a >> It's got to be real.

>> Is there anything that you want the fans to know that you want to say that's your truth today given that you're on the verge of releasing a very important album?

>> Yeah. I I think you know this um like I said it's the first album that I really feel like I produced and wrote all these songs for

myself. And also I think it's important

myself. And also I think it's important to be honest to my audience and and being able to open to them uh at this

stage of my life that this is how I feel and I know probably they want to see something else and obviously I would satisfy that in my next album. Um but

this this moment it's it's it's for them also for myself.

>> This album is truly who you are today.

Then how can we not love it?

[Music]