Joe Rogan Experience #2421 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out.

>> The Joe Rogan experience.

>> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. All day.

NIGHT. All day.

>> All right, bro. D, tell me about your new drink. Look at this here. Red gummy

new drink. Look at this here. Red gummy

fish. I'm about to try it for the first time. And this is a neutropic.

time. And this is a neutropic.

>> Yeah. So, it's uh I think on the first episode maybe that I did with you.

>> Robust, eh?

>> That's good.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh, that's delicious. Oh, you mean robust? You're saying it like a

robust? You're saying it like a potentially name flavor and uh >> I think it's great.

>> Oh, right on.

>> Red gummy fish. This [ __ ] delicious.

>> I drink the [ __ ] out of this.

>> I'm glad a lot of stuff in here. What's

in here?

>> So, I think it was the first time I was on you asked me about Gorilla Mind and the neutropic formula that I used before podcasts and, you know, to get cognitively dialed. And at the time, it

cognitively dialed. And at the time, it was a capsule-based formula and it still is. still exists, but taking what we

is. still exists, but taking what we could to suspend in a liquid format and getting it into something that's more like publicly and widely accepted and that they would want to drink on a regular basis and is something you could

use daily. It's kind of what we did in

use daily. It's kind of what we did in this. So we included essentially like a

this. So we included essentially like a daily use version of the Gorilla Mine formula which includes the tyrrosine precursor for dopamine as well as other

neurotransmitters catakolamines like adrenaline nor adrenaline. Um also alpha GPC most bioavailable form of choline.

it crosses the bloodb brain barrier and is pretty efficacious and also just a good choline source in general which most most people are deficient in as a nutrient and I think completely unaware that it's actually important to be

supplementing with potentially um pretty hard to get an adequate amount of choline but >> where does it come from in food >> liver is a good source eggs and in general it's just like the highly

nutrition dense foods that you would get it from a lot of people aren't focusing on specifically either because of caloric density or it's like an animalbased like nose totail thing or fill in the blank. It's not impossible

to do it. A lot of people who focus on it could probably relatively easily, but it's still one of the things you have to focus on actually kind of like maneuvering into your diet typically.

So, in general, most people are at least maybe like 50% of the way that are at best. And that's even among people who I

best. And that's even among people who I would say are relatively balanced diet individuals. But

individuals. But >> interesting. So, I'm sure you're you're

>> interesting. So, I'm sure you're you're familiar with colonergics and their impact on, you know, cognition and whatnot.

>> Uh, caffeine, tried and true. You know,

>> how much you got in here?

>> 200 milligrams. >> Nice.

>> Very difficult decision trying to come up with what is the amount you're going to stick with in perpetuity in this thing.

>> Everyone's addicted now.

>> It's a real issue with caffeine. So it's

like the fine line balance of not too much, something that is still uh you know tolerable, sustainable, going to be widely accepted and widely impactful on a beneficial level but not overdoing it.

And 200 is kind of what we landed on.

>> And then urodine monof phosphate pretty unique ingredient. I haven't seen

unique ingredient. I haven't seen anybody ever included in a drink, let alone even in supplements typically.

It's >> what is it?

>> So it's also something that operates via the colonergic system but in a different way. mainly it's uh utility is kind of

way. mainly it's uh utility is kind of enhancing your sensitivity to stimulants. So somebody who is otherwise

stimulants. So somebody who is otherwise desensitized from like heightened exposure to things that either desensitize them to uh caffeine or

nicotine or things of this nature even some like the ADHD medications. Um this

can actually at least the literature suggests strongly that it enhances dopamine neurotransmission potential.

like almost restoring function and damaged uh dopamine producing neurons in the brain. So you can kind of get a

the brain. So you can kind of get a heightened impact out of the same level of stimulant. So a caffeine dose that

of stimulant. So a caffeine dose that might otherwise be you're used to it now you start to feel it again more than you used to without having to increase your caffeine intake.

>> Oh >> yeah. So, it's a pretty cool ingredients

>> yeah. So, it's a pretty cool ingredients and it seems to have some neuroprotective properties potentially as well >> and some uh interesting literature on like Alzheimer's and whatnot, but it's

more like fringe and to be determined how impactful it is. Um, and then on top of that, we have althenine. You're

probably familiar with it effect stacked with caffeine increases alpha waves.

good for verbal fluency as well as just general uh attention and concentration but keeping you a little bit more balanced and mellow while you have the heightened stimulatory activity from the

caffeine and the other kind of like dopamineergic compounds. And then also

dopamineergic compounds. And then also saffron extract which is a totally unique inclusion in my opinion. Still

don't really see it in neutropic formulas let alone in drinks. And it's

something that in literature is shown to be as efficacious as pharmaceutical SSRIs without inducing the same uh erectile dysfunction inducing effects of

it and without causing the same anhidonia inducing effects which is kind of like the muting of like pleasure in the in uh the brain. So

>> saffron. Yeah, super interesting ingredient. It seems to be pretty

ingredient. It seems to be pretty impactful for depression, for um anti-anxiety, and it also operates through a seemingly different mechanism even though it's often stacked up

against SSRIs for its comparisons and outperforms them or matches it with a relative lack of side effects. It is

something that operates through seemingly antioxidant activity, some dopamineergic, some serotonin, and just a little bit more of a benign way to achieve what is a similar outcome, but

with a seemingly lower, if not negligible to non-existent side effect profile.

>> I'm not saying that's what our drink does. I'm just saying that's what the

does. I'm just saying that's what the literature on saffrons. And anyone can go look that up and reference it. And

then who pairs probably the most impactful uh acetylcholineist inhibitor that you can include alongside like choline precursors. So it inhibits the

choline precursors. So it inhibits the breakdown of acetylcholine as opposed to being the fuel like the precursor like choline acetal uh alpha GPC CDP choline.

These are things that provide the substrate to actually produce the acetylcholine, preventing the breakdown of it too. Could otherwise get like a one-two punch where you get the heightened fuel substrate, but then also

an inhibition of its breakdown. So you

have just like a heightened level of cognitive uh capacity um through both like the one-two punch.

>> How did you determine these like doses and what you were going to include and not include? Uh, so a lot of it derived from the original

capsule-based formula. So back in, I

capsule-based formula. So back in, I don't know, 2021, I had already been using this thing for daily use essentially. And it was something that

essentially. And it was something that was determined based upon years of experience, um, personal anecdotes, but digging through hordes of clinical

literature. Ultimately, there's a lot of

literature. Ultimately, there's a lot of these compounds that have clinical studies on them for different applications. you can kind of sift

applications. you can kind of sift through what are the efficacious dosages, where are they impactful, whereas a sustainable level, you could actually take this long term without it being negatively impactful on because

sometimes if you overdo it in one area over time, it might be problematic. So

trying to find the fine balance of where is a dose that moves the needle but isn't going to kind of like push you in too far of a negative direction that it's unsustainable

>> because sometimes that this stuff it's like a hammer solution. you might see an energy drink that's like 300 350 caffeine and it's like okay you know >> you've essentially like singled out a lot of the customers who might otherwise

benefit from it even if there was other good stuff in the drink. It's like only stim junkies can use it now, you know.

So, >> yeah, >> this is kind of like the fine balance of what I thought to be the most sustainable version of balancing, you know, dopamine input, serotonin activity, getting some of that, you

know, anti-anxiety support and also getting a reasonable hit of caffeine.

>> And did you so in pill form? So, did you start out by using each individual supplement and then trying to use them in combination to see if there's a

synergistic effect? Like, how did you do

synergistic effect? Like, how did you do it over time? I guess maybe that's a bit more interesting than digging through literature, but when I was a university student, just like being a nerd, mixing

stuff in my kitchen like a chemist essentially, and just measuring raw powders back, you know, in the day what we would do, or at least, you know, like biohackers and what have you, we'd buy

just like off of different websites raw bulk ingredients and then you'd measure out with little micro spoons in these laboratory increments to try and get, okay, the microgram equivalent of this.

And you'd make some disgusting shake with a concoction of different unflavored powders and create what is your ultimate kind of combination through trial and error ultimately.

>> And were you like doing a diary like today I feel great?

>> Yeah, I was just keeping a log almost like you know working out like how did you respond to fill in the blank or um >> did you take into account like sleep all these different factors, diet? many

variables at the time. Obviously, a bit more rudimentary and crude when you're like 21 years old and you're just trying to like >> get cognitively locked in to study for finals, but back then it was just

>> what is the most impactful things that I've heard work and then also digging further into literature, looking on the limited uh forums that existed back then on online because it's a lot more of a

like a niche community back then. It's

not like this was widely discussed. uh

20 2009 2008.

>> Oh, early days.

>> Yeah. So, like

>> that's when I first started [ __ ] around with them.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. I I first found out about Neuro1.

That was the first one I found out about.

>> Okay.

>> Did you ever try that one?

>> Neuro one.

>> It's Bill Romanowski's company.

>> The football player. So, he developed it because he was having cognitive problems after, you know, years and years of playing football. M

playing football. M >> and so uh he came up with this formulation and uh I was doing this radio show Allison Noame in San Francisco and No Name's a dude I forget

his name unfortunately >> yeah yeah >> so long ago but he uh was working out with Romanowski Romanowski was trying to get him in shape and he gave him this

stuff and he said hey try it and it was you know I do morning radio when you're promoting like I was doing Cobbs comedy club when you ever doing a comedy club you'd show this is back in the day when radio meant thing. You'd show up in the

morning and you do the morning drive and uh they would go, "Oh, Joe Rogan's appearing at the comedy club this weekend. Come see him." And you'd be

weekend. Come see him." And you'd be funny on the radio and have a good time with the people. And he gave it to me and I was like, "Hey man, this stuff feels like something's going on. Like

this is legit." And that's what really got me. That's how we developed Alpha

got me. That's how we developed Alpha Brain. We developed Alpha Brain after me

Brain. We developed Alpha Brain after me trying out Neuro One, saying, "Is there can we optimize this? Is there another way to do this? Is there, you know, other forms that we're missing?" And but

your formulation seems like very comprehensive and also [ __ ] delicious.

>> Yeah, that's one of the difficult things too is making it taste good while still being able to suspend the active ingredients cuz they could just fall out of suspension or myriad of different

issues, carbonation problems, >> even exploding cans in transit that you're not predicting are going to react a certain way.

>> Even the black lids, dude, like it's stuff you don't even think of, but it absorbing heat. It's like, oh, it's

absorbing heat. It's like, oh, it's gonna be more prone to blowing up now because of that.

>> Oh, because of a black lid. Did you want a black lid just for aesthetics?

>> Yeah, at the time it was like this. This

looks cool.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> And so, what are you sweetening this stuff with?

>> Uh, primarily sucralose, which obviously, you know, some people have their opinions on it and that's totally fine and good, but in general based on clinical literature seems to be well tolerated. And what is the issue with it

tolerated. And what is the issue with it that people have? I think some people think it depends on the person and like the kind of content they make typically and typically they have a bit of a >> a bias.

>> Yeah. But in general it's you know going to irritate your gut or it could cause GI distress and for some people with extremely sensitive uh gastrointestinal uh issues it can for sure but in general

at the dosages used and just having it even conservatively which most people are going to be it's like pretty benign at least from the literature I've seen.

One of the things that we had uh noticed when we first came out with AlphaBrain was for some people, it's a small amount, but for some people they would get headaches and they felt terrible after taking it.

>> Um I don't know what their dose I don't know if they were taking the recommended dose or if they were saying, "Well, two is good. I'll take five." And there's a

is good. I'll take five." And there's a lot of folks like that out there. But um

>> yeah, some of these if you're not careful, it could be, you know, pushing you into uh like we vetted this out beforehand, but one of the first formulations or prototypes of Gorilla

Mind in the capsule form, we had something called velvet bean extract, which standardizes to L-dopa. So like

Levodopa is used for like Parkinson's patients because it's a direct precursor to dopamine without a rate limiting step that kind of like inh regulates the conversion. So rather than using

conversion. So rather than using tyrosine, we were like, we thought, and we didn't end up releasing it because of this, we could just go, okay, let's get a straight precursor and see how impactful this thing is because we

really wanted to hit. And [snorts] oh my god, I I [laughter] had like dopamine overdose myself. Had my girlfriend at

overdose myself. Had my girlfriend at the time also [ __ ] herself up and my parents [ __ ] themselves up. And

somehow it [laughter] didn't it didn't occur until like >> like three incidents later. I'm like,

okay, this thing is unsustainable.

And I guess my my business partners didn't really even think worth mentioning, which was kind of crazy at the time because they just trusted me to do the formulations and whatnot, but they had the same experience and didn't

bring it up. And I'm like, guys, like we can't relate to this [ __ ] >> It was just like way too intense.

>> What did it do to you?

>> Just like makes you extremely nauseous.

You feel like you have to keel over on a couch and just lie there until you feel like you can actually regain composure and start moving around again.

>> Really? Yeah, dopamine. A lot of people think more is better. You're going to have more motivation, more drive, more, you know, the the more the better is what a lot of people think. But similar

to probably even worse than stimulants, because at least stimulants, you have kind of like a direct BOF feedback through your heart rate's going through the roof and you're getting the anxiety.

With dopamine, if you overdo it with something that you can't like rate limit either, you just like get sick and you just end up having to lie down for hours.

>> Interesting.

>> Yeah. Uh, one thing I like about a drink versus uh a pill form is that you can just take a little.

>> Yeah. You can meter your dose.

>> Yeah. Because you take a pill, you're taking a pill. That's it. You can't like unless you want to cut pills in half or pour some of the capsule out. No one's

doing that. But this is nice because you could just kind of sip a little bit of it.

>> How many of these can you drink in a day?

>> I could drink a lot personally.

[laughter] >> Like you don't even want to know, dude.

>> How many do you drink a day?

>> Uh, on a typical day, probably two to three. But I kind recommended.

three. But I kind recommended.

>> Oh, check the warning label, bro.

>> What does the warning label say, bro?

>> I [laughter] It must say no more than two a day, but I would say on a podcast, not more than one is what I would recommend.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, especially with all that caffeine as well.

>> Yeah. You never know. Um, in general, 400 milligrams is even like the FDA stated, you know, everyone's going to be okay probably dose. But in reality, it's kind of crazy. A lot of people don't

realize the studies done for uh caffeine induced performance enhancement are all looking at like 3 to 6 milligrams a kilogram which is like unless you're a

tiny woman 400 500 600 milligrams are the doses that actually really move the needle when it comes to acute performance enhancement.

>> Uh Chel Sunen used to take it in pill form.

>> Yeah. because um he was saying that there's a level where they'll test you well you'll pop where they'll say okay you're in a stimulant level like you took a stimulant before you fought.

>> Yeah they have a they had threshold concentrations that they would deem inappropriately high perhaps for safety perhaps because they thought it was an unfair advantage. It kind of

unfair advantage. It kind of >> I think that's what they were looking at it.

>> It kind of depends though because I think it was removed and I don't think that threshold exists anymore except in the NCAA. I'd have to revisit it, but

the NCAA. I'd have to revisit it, but I'm pretty sure caffeine is like essentially you could go full bore at this point.

>> Interesting. So 5600 milligrams was what the efficacious dose was.

>> Um, so you can get performance enhancement as low as I think some people was like a milligram per kilogram. It depends on the person and

kilogram. It depends on the person and tolerance of course, but in general the most tried and trueue studies when it comes to repeatable high impact with a

proportional relative lack of side effects but not none was like 3 to six milligrams a kilogram and some of the studies go even higher than that.

>> Interesting. And what what are the benefits like what did they get? uh like

acute uh strength enhancement um offsetting like any sleep induced deprivation in performance outcomes mentally. You can pretty much offset

mentally. You can pretty much offset like a shitty night of sleep and all the kind of detriments to your performance via a pretty solid dose of caffeine. Um

yeah, most of the stuff is kind of energy acutely offsetting performance decrement related but also in a context of strength. um highintensity activity,

of strength. um highintensity activity, you can absolutely get a benefit from it. And there's a reason why, you know,

it. And there's a reason why, you know, sprinters will take, you know, medafanyl or highdose caffeine or powerlifter, powerlifters will take, you know, massive doses of, you know, pre-workout before a lift or whatnot.

>> Like, it's all impactful for your psychological state to get really like locked in in a hyper vigilant state to really max out on what you're trying to do, whatever it may be.

>> This episode is brought to you by Happy Dad Hard Seltzer. A nice cold happy dad is low carbonation, gluten-free, and is easy to drink. No bloating, no nonsense.

When you're watching a football game or you're golfing, watching a fight with your boys, or out on the lake, these moments call for a cold Happy Dad.

People are drinking all these seltzers and skinny cans that are loaded with sugar. But Happy Dad only has one gram

sugar. But Happy Dad only has one gram of sugar in a normalsized can. You can

buy Happy Dad on the GoPuff app and your local liquor and grocery store, including Walmart, Kroger, Total Wine, and Circle K. And you can't decide on a flavor, grab a variety pack. Lemon lime,

watermelon, pineapple, and wild cherry.

They also have a grape flavor in collaboration with Death Row Records and Snoop Dogg. They have their new lemonade

Snoop Dogg. They have their new lemonade coming out as well. Visit happydad.com

for a limited time offer and use code roan to buy one Happy Dad Trucker hat and get one free. Enjoy a cold. Happy

dad must be of legal drinking age.

Please drink responsibly. Happy dad hard seltzer tea and lemonade is a malt alcohol located in Orange County, California. Um did you I had a podcast

California. Um did you I had a podcast the other day with Chris Master John. Do

you know who he is?

>> Yeah, he's great.

>> Great. Um, and we were talking about uh the impact of creatine and you know and they're trying to figure out like what what is the correct dose and a lot of people are going 20 30 they're getting

pretty high you know because recommended was like 5 milligrams I think.

>> Yeah.

>> And now everyone's saying actually the real benefits are at 20 and you know at least 10 but you're getting a lot of what what happens when people have uh

sleep deprivation. Um, and I I'll

sleep deprivation. Um, and I I'll butcher the science, so I I won't try to repeat it, and I recommend anybody listen to the episode, >> but what he was essentially saying was it it bypasses all the problems that

occur, and you could at least have a bridge to uh your your performance would not be impeded by a lack of sleep, at least for a temporary Yeah.

>> for a day or whatever.

>> Yeah, definitely want to touch on that.

But one thing to mention on the caffeine too is I think a lot of people when they hear the stuff like you know I heard you can go up to 20 grams of creatine or you know the high the highest impact dose in

caffeine literature is you know 3 to six milligrams a kilogram. It's not like I or I imagine Chris is like blindly recommending anybody start there.

>> Exactly. And it could easily get misconstrued that way in like a clippable format if people will just like hear the headline and then run with it. Like in you should start as low as

it. Like in you should start as low as you can with caffeine and you could get a erogenic effect as low as I think the lowest dose was like 50 to 100 milligrams probably if you equated to

body weight but it's all like tolerance dependent. Mhm.

dependent. Mhm.

>> It's just when you look at the studies like these are the repeatable high impact outcomes are typically in uh and especially in like trained athletes where you're trying to see how hard you

can push them. It's kind of like you know for max stress resilience, max you know acute force production. These are

the kind of dosages that are just used in the studies. So anyway, with that caveat and same with the creatine, you know, you might [ __ ] yourself if you go to 20 right away. Like you don't you don't want to start there.

>> A lot of people do apparently.

>> Yeah. And I mean like like Rhonda Patrick amazing content and she tolerates 20 grams well which is kind of like surprising cuz I know a lot of women who don't. I think she does a

probably uh micro doses it throughout the day and is really regimented about making sure she's diligently spreading it out. But some people who they bomb 20

it out. But some people who they bomb 20 at a time. Even guys who think they have iron stomachs just [ __ ] all over the place.

>> So much powder too. Yeah. Just the fact that you're consuming all this powder.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Speaking of which, are you still doing the like million gummies a day?

>> Of what?

>> Of creatine.

>> No.

>> You said you were going to crank that [ __ ] up to get to 20 gram.

>> I stopped with the gummies and I went to powdered form. Yeah.

powdered form. Yeah.

>> Oh, okay.

>> Cuz I felt like I'm tired of eating these [ __ ] things.

>> You got up to like what, like 10 plus a day. And you're

day. And you're >> Oh, more. I was eating like 15 a day. 15

15 gummies a day. But the the issue is like what else is in the gummies? You

know, what are what are the other things, you know, gelatin calories either. It's kind of just like if I'm

either. It's kind of just like if I'm going to eat candy, you know, I kind of want it to be like good candy.

>> Yeah. I don't even know what it's uh sweetened with. They taste good. But the

sweetened with. They taste good. But the

point was is like I didn't like eating them. I was eating too. I was like

them. I was eating too. I was like forcing myself to chew these things down. I'm like, what am I doing? I could

down. I'm like, what am I doing? I could

just mix creatine in a glass of water, stir it up real quick, and just chug it in 5 seconds and we're done. I don't

have to chew and swallow all these stupid [ __ ] gummies. I know.

>> But I do keep them. I keep them around because I think it's it's a great thing.

Like if I hadn't had it enough lately, I'll just pop a few.

>> It's like the best gateway drug, if you can even call it's not like a drug, but to get people who otherwise would never try it to actually see the benefits of it. So like I know so many women who

it. So like I know so many women who literally refuse to take the powder cuz it's like >> even though it's kind of like tasteless, it's still a nuisance. can be a little bit messy depending on the scooper shape

of it and everything and how you're gonna trying to convince a chick like it. Trust me, it's really good for your

it. Trust me, it's really good for your health if you like, you know, [ __ ] swig this thing dry and then chase it with water every [laughter] day.

>> It's not it's not the easiest cell every time. They're like, "Fuck you. I don't

time. They're like, "Fuck you. I don't

care." So, the gummies are good for that in my opinion. And um yeah, I mean going back to the 20 grams and the offsetting of you know performance deteriorations,

I do think it's uh basically offsetting kind of the deficiencies in uh like ATP production especially locally in the

brain and also uh kind of offsetting the pulling of resources away from like methylation support and whatnot in order to produce the endogenous creatine as well. These things can all be impactful

well. These things can all be impactful to kind of like get you back to almost baseline. So if you're in a deteriorated

baseline. So if you're in a deteriorated state, being able to offset the performance decrements from an otherwise, you know, sleep-d deprived state or, you know, you're traveling or what have you, like it can absolutely be super impactful and the literature has

shown that time and time again.

>> What's interesting is that creatine in the 1990s was thought of like steroids.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, it was really like frowned upon like, oh my god, someone's taking creatine, they're cheating. It was

really that's like how it was first introduced to the market. to hide it from your parents when you were a teenager.

>> Really?

>> Yeah. Well, at least when I was a teenager, it was kind of like >> it had a taboo still. It was like, you know, kind of like steroids light version.

>> Well, it's cuz it works.

>> Yeah. And parents, but they hear the stigma and the taboo associated. Like, I

heard creatine, they're selling it at the GNC's.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, better watch out for that one.

>> Meanwhile, they had real steroids at GNC.

>> Oh, yeah. The irony, too. I mean,

>> like [ __ ] M1Ts over the counter from, you know, like some 19-year-old kid who's just like manning the counter and doesn't care and will like [ __ ] your endocrine system up to sell it to you.

>> 100%. I took some stuff called Mag 10.

Do you remember that?

>> Uh, if I saw the ingredient deck, I'm sure it's just like some [ __ ] run-of-the-mill N1T product or something.

>> Gained like 10 solid pounds of muscle in a month.

>> And I bet your liver markers, not that you did blood work back then, were destroyed.

>> Yeah. Like worse than if you took like Injectable Tren even.

>> Right. Right. Yeah. It's crazy.

>> Yeah. Well, 100%. It killed my dick afterwards, too. When I got off of it, I

afterwards, too. When I got off of it, I was like, "What's going on?" And I was like, "Oh, this is a real steroid."

>> Yeah. And it's like, "You're not giving the PCT from the guy at the counter."

[laughter] >> I felt like a [ __ ] gorilla when I was taking it. I felt so strong when I was

taking it. I felt so strong when I was taking it. I literally gained I think it

taking it. I literally gained I think it was like I was on it for five or six weeks and I gained 10 solid pounds of muscle. The amount of people that have

muscle. The amount of people that have inadvertently gotten gynecomastia from those days when they were sold some irresponsible prohib over the counter without like any knowledge of what they

were taking >> and then had to just recover naturally with no support.

>> It's a shame.

>> Yeah. Well, there was so much of that stuff like werewolf blast. There was

dragon's dick. Like you could buy them and they were just pills. They were just regular pills.

>> The stimulants were crazy, too. like u a veteran was over the counter >> and like so weird but in Canada >> for relatively recently even it was

still available over the counter even though Canada is like super tight on regulation when it comes to the most weird stuff like when it comes to caffeine you can't even have a can with 200 milligrams it has to be like 180 or

lower >> why exactly I don't know but that is a thing as well as limitations on basic amino acids it's like tyrrosine if it's more than like 10 millig or something.

>> Amino acids.

>> Yeah, >> that's hilarious. Based on what?

>> Nonsense.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh god. [ __ ] nanny state.

>> But anyway, so a veteran for whatever reason was still over- thecounter available in GNC's up until like a handful of years ago. And it was, you know, the best seller in GNC's in a lot

of supplement stores. Not just because it worked as, you know, like a bronco dilator, but also because people were buying it in bulk to make meth.

>> [laughter] >> I believe it. I took Rip Fuel once for jiu-jitsu right before jiu-jitsu and I had to stop in the middle of the class.

I was like, I got to sit down. I I

pulled over to the side. I'm like,

"Guys, my [ __ ] heart is beating out of my chest." And I was explaining, I don't remember how many I took, but I I took some rep fuel. I was like, "Well, it's good to lift with. I'll try it for jiu-jitsu. It's [ __ ] ter for

jiu-jitsu. It's [ __ ] ter for something that like really taxes your cardiovascular system." It was

cardiovascular system." It was horrendous.

>> Resting hard. I did like 120 >> right away. I was tired like right away.

Like right away, like we start rolling.

I was like, "God, I'm [ __ ] exhausted.

My heart's beating out of my chest."

>> But in your brain, you're like, "This feels good after the first one."

>> I knew I [ __ ] up. I knew I I did it once and I never did it again. But

>> if you're if you're doing that sport, but for a guy who's going to the gym and is told like this is the [ __ ] bro.

>> If you're just lifting. Yeah. If you're

just going for like max bench, that kind of [ __ ] >> Anybody watching will know, you know, the original Have you heard of Jack 3D?

>> Yeah, I took that, too.

>> Yeah, she [laughter] was nuts. And

what's crazy too is back then it was proprietary blends on a lot of the products and it was still the norm with no education available, no YouTube to really tell you what to look for.

>> Also no oversight.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So these companies would basically sell you for, you know, 50 bucks a tub of like a powder flavored tub of just like the stimulant [laughter] and then it was like like all

the other ingredients for vasoddilation.

They're like, "Fuck you. You're just

getting DMAA, bro. That's

>> Yeah. You were just getting like straight meth."

straight meth." >> Yeah. Yeah,

>> Yeah. Yeah, >> it was crazy. There was so those were the wild west days of like GNC's and like local vitamin shops >> because you could get stuff that really

worked like worked like something that's highly illegal >> and you could buy it with a credit card >> and the sales tactics were just like so ruthless but you couldn't really prove them otherwise. It's like

them otherwise. It's like >> it was always like a a pitbull with like giant muscles on the cover of it with like lightning bolts.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, too, because some of these companies, it's like now we're in the mix competing with them on shelves or whatever, but I remember being like convinced back when I was a

teenager by them, oh, you need, you know, gakic, lucick, and creek kick and this combo that cost 250 bucks. Yeah.

>> And it's like, you know, literally uh pressed tablets of like glutamine or something at a dose that doesn't even help. And they're telling me like this

help. And they're telling me like this is what J Colory used to [ __ ] prep for the Olympia.

>> Sure.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

He's like, "Look at the before and after of Lee Priest. He lost like 50 pounds of pure fat and kept all his muscle from Celtech."

Celtech." >> Oh, that's a dirty thing about those bodybuilders back in the day is they couldn't admit that they were on gear.

>> So, they were all just telling you they were taking this stuff and then they would be spokespeople for it and it's God, it was so deceptive.

>> It was so creepy. And you would have to know someone at the gym >> who would, you know, go to be like Lee Haney. Like, no, that's not how he got

Haney. Like, no, that's not how he got that way. Yeah,

that way. Yeah, >> you got to take the real stuff. He's

This is what he's actually taking. And

so many people didn't think that those bodybuilders were on like hardcore steroids.

>> Yeah. A lot of Yeah, it's a deception at a mass scale. For sure. I don't think >> the whole sport.

>> Yeah.

>> The whole sport was just a complete like three cardi game.

>> Yeah. It's crazy cuz now it's almost full circle cuz you know I was back then, you know, con at least at the time when I didn't know any better. Oh, you

know, I guess this guy must be natural because he told me so or whatever. And

it's like I'm skeptical, but like, >> and you know, you in hindsight, it's absolutely ridiculous. But now a lot of

absolutely ridiculous. But now a lot of bodybuilders are pretty forthcoming because it's more normal to be transparent and also not mislead people and, you know, unethically sell things

and just reality check people on the what it's going to take to be at that level. And is it the risk you want to,

level. And is it the risk you want to, you know, subject yourself to? Cuz back

in the day too, it was like you didn't know if you had good genetics or not when it came to certain dosage responses. So you would like always

responses. So you would like always think the next guy's just taking more than you. And it would result in guys

than you. And it would result in guys >> unspokenly thinking this guy must just be taking 5x the amount of [ __ ] I'm on.

So I need to go to like 5 to 10 grams of total gear per week now.

>> And you would just like that's what led to so many early deaths in bodybuilding too. So

too. So >> I think there's another thing, another factor is that the consequences of lying and getting caught now are huge because if you lose all credibility and people

know that you're just a [ __ ] artist.

>> Yeah, that's too >> and then they'll never trust you again.

Like you have one chance >> to tell the truth forever.

>> Yeah.

>> And the moment you violate that, you're always a liar.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's that's a giant [ __ ] issue with with whether it's actors or anybody.

>> Yeah. You know, like all these guys who prep for roles and they they're talking about it now like, "Oh, I took Annavar.

I took this." Like Mickey Ror did when he was talking about that movie The Wrestler. You know, I remember they were

Wrestler. You know, I remember they were asking him on whatever talk show he was on. He's like, "I [ __ ] took

on. He's like, "I [ __ ] took everything." What are you talking about?

everything." What are you talking about?

I took >> That guy was a pioneer of interviews for that kind of stuff.

>> Yeah. Well, he's a wild dude. He'll tell

the truth.

>> Yeah. But you have one chance to tell the truth forever.

>> Yeah.

>> You violate that and you're always going to be a [ __ ] artist.

>> Yeah. Yeah, a guy who's pretty good about that now is uh Frank Gerillo.

>> Yes.

>> He was doing some like men's health thing and I have never seen men's health talk about steroids forthcoming.

>> Interesting.

>> Yeah. So they had him on a sit down interview and they were like so you know what's it take to be this recent?

>> Yeah. It's like last year within the last year.

>> Oh, right. Right.

>> If not months ago.

>> Is this when he was talking about Anavar?

>> Yeah. and he talked about his TRT protocol and kind of like the realities of how impactful it actually is and improving his performance and how it makes him feel and he was just like pretty non- sugarcoated about it.

>> Well, he's a good example because he was clean for a long time.

>> Yeah.

>> Like he had like very low testosterone because he was just going on willpower.

>> He was really just just working out on willpower.

>> Uh actress star lifts the lid on fitness recovery and the reality behind the scenes physiques. Frankl 60 gets real

scenes physiques. Frankl 60 gets real about Hollywood steroid use. They all do it. Well, that is a fact. But he was not

it. Well, that is a fact. But he was not on anything for a long time, like deep into his 50s and he got his testosterone take. He's good friends with Brian Ken

take. He's good friends with Brian Ken >> and uh you know, he got his testosterone taken. It was [ __ ] nothing. He had

taken. It was [ __ ] nothing. He had

like zero. But he was just very disciplined and working out hard, but he didn't look like he was on gear. He just

looked like he was ripped. He was like shredded. He was like in really good

shredded. He was like in really good shape because he trained every [ __ ] day and he was doing a lot of boxing.

So, a lot of like heavy caloric expenditure, a lot of like long rounds, hitting the bag, hitting mits, doing sparring, you know, you're going to burn off so much calories and also you're

going to like your but your metabolism is going to be like completely jacked.

>> Yeah. So then for him to talk about, okay, now I got on this and then I got on that and this is the improvements, my sleep, my mood, everything got better because, you know, he's talked about is like his testosterone when he got it

tested was super low.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's uh probably one of the few examples actually still to this day though of somebody being like really transparent. I actually saw The Rock

transparent. I actually saw The Rock talking about peptide use recently, which is kind of like a >> interesting dipping his toes [laughter] in the water.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> He's lost a ton of weight, man.

>> Oh, dude. Yeah, he

>> kind of crazy.

>> Yeah. And there's a lot of speculation about if it's like a health thing or what, but I that's tough to know because he just had the role where he gained the most eyes he ever has, too.

>> Right. Right. But that I God, that had to be terrible for him.

>> Oh, for sure. But it's like, would you have subjected yourself to that if you knew? I don't know if he would have

knew? I don't know if he would have known, but you would have think proactively he would know how close he is to kind of like an issue. Um, being

>> probably pretty close. 50 years old and getting up to 300 lb.

>> Yeah. I just mean, I think he probably had more preventative screening before that role to know he could even subject himself to it without dying cuz it's like a pretty risky endeavor to go

become the biggest you've ever been at that age. So to then downsize after the

that age. So to then downsize after the theory is that >> he was literally about to die essentially. So that's why he lost so

essentially. So that's why he lost so much weight now.

>> And I'm thinking I think maybe he's just like trying to take like a health phase and kind of like come down and wait for a bit and he'll probably like crank it back up.

>> Honestly, I think just and this is pure speculation. I haven't talked to him

speculation. I haven't talked to him about this. Um, I think based on what he

about this. Um, I think based on what he tried to do with The Smashing Machine, I think he's trying to win an Oscar and trying to be a real actor cuz he was really good in that movie. Did you see it?

>> Uh, not yet. Planning on it, though.

>> It's the best mixed martial arts movie ever. That's not saying a lot cuz they

ever. That's not saying a lot cuz they all suck.

>> Um, but it is the it's the most accurate in terms of historical matches. like

they they had all the matches like with ego of tension, all these different people that he fought that Mark Kerr actually fought >> and it's just a good movie. It's a

really good movie like like Emily Blunt plays his crazy girlfriend and she's out of her [ __ ] mind and to the point where like they're arguing right before he fights and you're getting anxiety

watching like oh Jesus [ __ ] Christ.

>> It's just such a crazy toxic relationship. It is Emily Blunt, right?

relationship. It is Emily Blunt, right?

I didn't [ __ ] that up, did I? Yeah,

>> that is She's [ __ ] great in it, too.

It's just a really good movie that I think would have gotten a lot more credit if it wasn't a mixed martial arts movie >> because I think, you know, mixed martial arts movies like, "Oh, it's some [ __ ]

meatthead like rah rah rah, you know, bullshit."

bullshit." >> Yeah.

>> Movie, but it's it's a very good movie.

And he is Mark Kerr.

>> Oh, he was so accurate.

>> So good.

>> Yeah.

>> He he just And not just the fighting stuff, man. And the fighting stuff was

stuff, man. And the fighting stuff was great, but the acting stuff >> like he played that guy and I know Mark.

I was like, "Fuck, that's Mark. That's

nuts." It was so good.

>> It was a really good movie. So I what I think he's doing is the same thing Bautista is doing. Dave Bautista

>> inversed.

>> Well, Dave Bautista a lot lost a lot of weight, too. I Yeah, but I guess I mean

weight, too. I Yeah, but I guess I mean like typically when actors are trying to get taken more seriously for more impactful like artistic creative roles, it's almost like the Jack Meatthead guy

downsizes to do something more, you know, like I don't know, artsy.

>> Yeah.

>> But like this is getting as [clears throat] yolked as possible in order to be right.

>> Whereas Batista is like fully downsized I think now.

>> Yeah. But I I think what I'm saying is now what he's doing now, I think he's probably trying to get different kinds of roles. Roles where like I mean, have

of roles. Roles where like I mean, have you ever met him?

>> No.

>> He was like a superhero. He looks like a superhero. Like we we worked out

superhero. Like we we worked out together. He came to the gym and I

together. He came to the gym and I brought a bunch of comedians. We worked

out and hung out.

>> Like Tony Clinchcliffe was in his glory cuz you know he loves pro wrestling.

We're all in the sauna together hanging out with >> It was the first time he he probably still doesn't know that he uses gear.

>> What's that?

>> He probably still doesn't know that he uses gear.

>> What do you mean? Hinchcliffe is just like, >> "Oh, Hinchcliffe doesn't know that." Oh,

he knows he uses gear.

>> I still remember the episode where he was dumbfounded that you and Job thought that he was doing [laughter] serious.

>> He is locked into being a 12year-old pro wrestling fan for the rest of his life.

It's like a religious thing for him.

It's like, you know, Mary was a virgin.

You know, [laughter] she she gave birth to Jesus. Like, I'm not kidding. like he

to Jesus. Like, I'm not kidding. like he

he [ __ ] loves pro wrestling so much >> that he's completely locked in.

>> He's a good example though of like a reasonably in then guy who has friends in the space too like you and you know Sha know about this stuff and even he was like surprised that you guys thought

that at the [laughter] time. It

>> is funny. It is funny when you think about So imagine just the average person, they probably, you know, >> right? And also he's, [clears throat]

>> right? And also he's, [clears throat] you know, been very koi about it and saying actually not really koi, probably deceptive right?

>> Just like strategically perfect in his tax when it comes to avoiding it.

>> Yes. That's that's [laughter] the best way to describe it. Instead of saying, "I've never taken steroids," he's kind of like, "Look over there." [laughter]

>> Yeah. Exactly.

>> But everybody who knows knows, you know?

It's one of those things. It's like you look at them, you're like, "There's no way. There's there's no way. There's

way. There's there's no way. There's

just no way.

>> I think I I can't imagine talking about peptides and putting the feelers out there would not eventually transition to like, you know, it's it was recommended to me by my doctor to be on, you know, hormone support or whatever.

>> 100%.

>> Yeah. Like I mean, you're kind of in that realm talking about it at this point, you know, >> just come out and say it. I've always

just come out and said it. I don't I don't see any problem with it. But I

don't have that kind of a reputation.

Like the problem of like being the pro wrestling thing is like you're uh you're a role model for the youth and you know you have to especially a guy like that.

He's a giant movie star. You don't want to be telling everybody you're on gear.

>> He probably wasn't for like a big chunk of his early career though.

>> In his early career, right? Yeah. His

early career. I don't think he was.

>> I guess the problem is when you're like when I really became successful is when I just saw my face off.

>> Yeah. That's [laughter] the thing. When

he became a superhero. I mean, the first time I met him, he had cowboy boots on, so he's even taller. And he just looked like a [ __ ] brick [ __ ] house. I'm

like, they're not even a real person.

This isn't a real person. This is a superhero.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I uh Yeah, it's crazy, dude.

But I think he's still jacked. It's just

pro proportionally to relative to what he was, you know? It's kind of like >> anybody who used to be a bodybuilder or had significant amounts of even me, like people in my videos, they're like, "Where you're, you know, you've lost

everything." It's like, okay, I'm not

everything." It's like, okay, I'm not like non-existent anymore. I'm just like not a bodybuilder anymore. You know what I mean?

>> Yeah.

>> So, if with him it's like he's still yolked. He's like 230, 240 or whatever.

yolked. He's like 230, 240 or whatever.

>> Yeah. The thing is like super gear heads will always criticize, oh, you look like a [ __ ] chick now. [laughter] They

they get crazy. They said that about Bautista, too. But he's like 240.

Bautista, too. But he's like 240.

>> I think you just got to stop wearing like the weird tapered Gucci suits. It

just makes him look a little bit more slender than uh it is not complimentary to his uh physique. He's still Jack, too.

>> Yeah, but it does. It is complimentary if you didn't know what he used to look like.

>> That's what's crazy. Like, you look at him, the guy looks [ __ ] great.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Like, >> yeah. Objectively, if you just look at

>> yeah. Objectively, if you just look at it with no baseline.

>> Like, pull up a a photo of Dave Bautista now.

>> And he's also just getting older. Like,

there's got to be some level where you get acceptance of like, okay, you're allowed to downsize so you don't die.

>> Yeah. You could die. That's the thing.

Like, you're if you're pushing gear at that age. So, there's Yeah. Like look at

that age. So, there's Yeah. Like look at Batista on the right. You wouldn't say that's a small guy, you know? That's not a small guy. He's a

you know? That's not a small guy. He's a

big [ __ ] dude, but he's just slimmer now. He looks like like if you saw an em

now. He looks like like if you saw an em like Alex Pereira, you don't think Alex Pereira is small.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> But you know, he's 24 [ __ ] 40 lbs.

>> Yeah. If he was bodybuilding for a while and then decided to convert to, you know MMA.

>> That's the thing. But he also got like that's what he looks like now. Like

that's not a small guy.

>> Yeah. And he's like I don't know how old, but I mean >> that's 2025. He's got to be 50 56. 56.

So that's He's [ __ ] shredded. He

looks [ __ ] gigantic.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I think he actually did a role recently where he bulked up now that I think about it. He went to like It was like fat weight too, which is crazy.

>> Yeah. That was that uh [sighs] God, Glass Onion, was that what it was called? There was some some movie that

called? There was some some movie that he did. It was a really good movie. It

he did. It was a really good movie. It

was a movie where like some billionaire had everybody come to his island for some crazy party and there was a murder.

>> What was that called?

>> That I think is Glass Onion. I don't

know if >> that was Glass Onion for something else.

>> He was huge for Glass Onion. He got

gigantic. He got big for something else too.

>> But I I think he was like playing I don't remember what his role was but playing some former athlete or something along those lines.

>> Yeah, he was hosy. Dude,

>> it's weird when you get really big for a movie that sucks. You know what [laughter] I mean? Or kill yourself for a movie that sucks.

>> Yeah. I hope it did well. Like Jesus.

>> Uh Christian Bale did that for The Machinist. He almost died.

Machinist. He almost died.

>> 75 pounds he gained for Knock at the Cabin.

>> Oh, that's what it is. Knock. What was

that movie? Show me what that looked like.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Screen.

>> Knock at the Cabin. What was that movie?

>> A horror movie on I did not watch it.

>> Wow.

>> A horror movie, huh? Do you watch horror movies ever?

>> I love a good horror movie.

>> He was 315. Jesus.

>> So now he's 240. Yeah. It's much much more sustainable. [snorts] Yeah. But

more sustainable. [snorts] Yeah. But

that's like a weird weight. That's like

what the [ __ ] did he eat to get that big? And again, he probably did that at

big? And again, he probably did that at like 52, which is >> [ __ ] dangerous. You probably got sleep apnnea. You're all [ __ ] up.

sleep apnnea. You're all [ __ ] up.

Yeah.

>> Yeah. Chariss Thur did that too recently.

>> She did it for Monster.

>> I know. No, again.

>> She did it again.

>> Don't do that, Charlies.

Oh god, that's real.

>> Yeah.

>> What is it for?

>> I forget the movie. I just saw this photo the other day.

>> Um >> I think some women they're probably like a lady like her. They're probably like Tully.

>> I don't know what that is. Might be new, but I just saw >> that's such a flex. When you're a hot lady, they get fat and gross. And like

when she did Monster, she shaved her eyebrows off.

>> Did you see the uh Sydney Sweeney like boxing?

>> I didn't see that.

>> Not that she got fat and gross, but like she gained some weight.

>> Did she? Yeah.

>> That movie got zero attention. The

Christy Martin movie.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Cuz it was like three decades past when anybody gave a [ __ ] >> You know what I mean?

>> I I I at least got the impression I haven't watched it so I could be way off base that it was kind of like one of those artistic kind of like >> look at my versatility in roles kind of thing.

>> Yeah. How what

in that movie? Did she gain weight? They

might have put her in a fight.

>> Well, they said she gained like 30 pounds of muscle or something, which is like the typical headline nonsense.

>> Yeah. Horseshit.

>> Yeah. But she definitely like, you know, took it seriously and gained the weight that she needed to to look whatever the role was for sure.

>> Yeah. That's such a weird thing. The

>> the acting world you have to change your like Robert Janeiro was the first guy to do it for Raging Bull.

>> You remember uh Tom Cruz in uh >> Tropic Thunder? Yeah. But that was a fat suit.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah, that was I mean because they they made his forearms fat. They

shaved [clears throat] his head. He was

[ __ ] great in that movie.

>> Oh, [ __ ] What a movie. That was the last bang before Woke.

>> That was the last movie that you could ever do like that before woke kicked in and essentially ruined great comedies >> because you couldn't go too far. You

can't do that anymore. You just get in trouble.

>> Yeah. It's like back then if you were to ask, okay, you know, have a hit list of just like ready to laugh your ass off movies that are just like loweffort. You

don't have to think too much. You can

just sit down and enjoy. There's a bunch of bangers from back then, but it's like nowadays I don't even know what to go to.

>> They don't happen anymore.

>> Like the Fairly Brothers movies, like Kingpin, [ __ ] great movie. You know,

there's so many something about Mary.

There's so many of those like outrageous hysterical movies that it was funny. And

I asked Robert uh Downey Jr. I was like I go you couldn't do blackface in a movie today. He goes oh you could do it

movie today. He goes oh you could do it but >> what would happen afterwards is the big deal. He got it in like ju like it's

deal. He got it in like ju like it's like the scene in a movie where the elevator door closes right before the monster gets you.

>> He [laughter] got there just in time and like it was perfect timing where he didn't suffer from it.

>> No. Yeah. It's uh crazy to see the delta and just like I don't even know what to watch when I go on Netflix now to be honest.

>> Well, with comedies, it's really [ __ ] hard. It's really hard. The only thing

hard. It's really hard. The only thing that's really wild and free is standup comedy.

>> Like to to do a comedy movie and just go full Tropic Thunder is almost impossible today.

>> Yeah.

>> But if somebody did it, if somebody just self- financed it, oh my god, it would [ __ ] kill. who would make so much money and then would open up the floodgates because people still want that, you know, they still like it's

it's not that you agree with everything these people are saying and doing. It's

comedy. Like I don't agree with John Wick killing everybody. You know what I mean? Like but he's not really killing

mean? Like but he's not really killing everybody. Like it's a [ __ ] movie.

everybody. Like it's a [ __ ] movie.

>> And it used to be that you knew that when you went into these movies before everybody was like looking for everything to potentially be offended by.

>> Yeah. It's just like ruined everything.

>> What do you watch now?

>> I don't watch comedies anymore.

>> But like just in general, do you have any like kind of just like low barrier?

Just I sit down and turn my brain off that.

>> Oh, there's a lot of great stuff. You

know what I watched last night? Jamie,

you recommended uh Pluribabus. Is that

what it's called?

>> I've only watched the first episode, but what a weird show, right?

>> Holy [ __ ] is it good? Right up your alley.

>> Holy [ __ ] is it good. It's a new Apple show and I don't want to give away too much, but it it it has something to do with aliens and aliens send a

transmission to Earth and there's this like this insane impact on society, but it's like [ __ ] total left field movie. You don't see it coming. It's

movie. You don't see it coming. It's

crazy. Or not movie, television show.

And again, I'm like Jamie. I've only

seen the first episode, but it's great.

>> It's like, holy [ __ ] he's giving you anxiety. It's so good.

anxiety. It's so good.

>> Did you guys watch uh what was that other Apple show that was really good?

It was like in an office setting. I

can't believe I'm forgetting that.

>> Seven.

>> Yeah, you guys watch that.

>> Sevens was great. Especially the first episode or the first season. First

season was great. After a while, they get a little weird cuz you're like you're running this very strange game that you're doing people remember and don't remember and like and then you're [ __ ] with the guy's head so he can

remember and they >> Yeah. What about uh Stranger Things and

>> Yeah. What about uh Stranger Things and It Those are two that my girlfriend has me watching right now.

>> I watched the first episode of Stranger Things last night as well or yesterday as well. That was great.

as well. That was great.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's uh Dude, it's kind of crazy how much time is between these seasons now. It's like you finish I almost like

now. It's like you finish I almost like can't don't want to commit to something because it's like well if I like it >> Yeah.

>> [ __ ] you to me you know three years next [laughter] season.

>> Game of Thrones it's a great example of that. Oh, dude. House of Dragon. Like,

that. Oh, dude. House of Dragon. Like,

good luck seeing the next season, bro.

>> Well, not only that, like unfortunately with House of Dragons, it's got to follow Game of Thrones, which is like one of the best series of all time, >> and the characters just aren't as compelling for whatever reason. And so,

I don't know who the [ __ ] anybody is.

>> So, the new season starts, I'm like, who's that?

>> Yeah. And maybe I just have like monkey brain, but I'm watching I'm like, I didn't see a dragon the whole [ __ ] episode. [laughter]

episode. [laughter] >> I feel I feel ripped off.

>> Yeah. I need a dragon. I need that dragon to [ __ ] kill somebody. Need to

burn somebody alive.

>> Yeah, it's uh there's a lot of great shows now, but but again it you can it's very hard to make a great comedy. You

can make a great like mindless entertainment like fun show.

>> Slow Horses. That's a great show. That's

uh is that an Apple show? I believe it is. Yeah, that's another Apple show with

is. Yeah, that's another Apple show with Gary Oldman. It's a spy

Gary Oldman. It's a spy mi M5 or MI what is it? MI5. What do

they call themselves?

>> MI >> MI5.

>> The numbers of the person. I think it's whatever. I don't know.

whatever. I don't know.

>> Whatever it is, it's a spy show. Brit

British spy show. That's a really good show.

>> It is my five.

>> Yeah. I mean, there's there's a lot of great shows to watch. Like there's I think it's probably the best time ever for content. If you just want to sit and

for content. If you just want to sit and be entertained, >> it's the probably the best time ever because of scream streaming >> because streaming instead of, you know, one episode you're watching a show and

it takes place over an hour and then the next episode is totally different, a totally different subject line, different story. M

different story. M >> no it's like the thing you get you get locked into these characters like Sopranos I think was like the first one to really do that excellently

>> and drag it out over you know many many seasons where you have this like running story line.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's uh I'm kind of just like tuned out of TV at this point. I

just watch what my girlfriend wants to watch and [laughter] Stranger Things and it is the thing right now.

>> Yeah. I watched the new IT show.

>> Yeah. I watched the first episode of that too. That looks great. It's like

that too. That looks great. It's like

oddly overlapping with the Stranger Things. I feel like I'm kind of watching

Things. I feel like I'm kind of watching the same show almost >> kind of >> like obviously totally different overall stories, but like you know, you have kids and these kind of like >> and evil things

>> and I don't want to like wreck an episode, but they mention it. Not

specifically it, but a story about like an extraterrestrial evil being called it in a stranger Stranger Things episode.

I'm like, this is a weird [ __ ] reference for these being at the same time right now. Yeah. Well, they

probably didn't plan that out, right?

>> Yeah. I don't I don't know, man.

>> What is it called? Welcome to Derry. Is

that what it's called?

>> Yeah, >> the new one.

>> But it's good. That's good, too.

>> The release date scheduling makes absolutely no sense for Stranger Things, too. It's like in batches and the next

too. It's like in batches and the next batch is coming out on uh Christmas.

>> And then the final one is New Year's.

>> New Year's. It's like the exact times you like probably can't bang out all the episodes or like >> you're going to have to force your family to sit there with you.

>> Can though.

>> What's that? That's what high school kids can.

>> Yeah, high school kids can >> vacations.

>> Well, I think Stranger Things is so big they could [ __ ] make you only watch it at 3:00 in the morning and it would still get 30 million views.

>> But like just such a weird choice. I

don't know.

>> Well, it's just weird that it takes so long to make one of those damn things that you have to wait 3 years in between seasons and then you have these kids that are playing 15 year olds and now they're [ __ ] 30.

>> Yeah. [laughter] It's kind of weird.

>> You can tell some of them it's like, "How do we make you look as young as possible?" Mhm. Yeah. You give them

possible?" Mhm. Yeah. You give them goofy haircuts and and then there's also like, spoiler alert, there's some computerenerated imaging, so they

they're using some sort of an AI program to make scenes with the kids when they were young.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And you kind of can tell, but you kind of can't tell. It's like really good.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Nowadays, it's like you feel like you could just AI generate the whole thing, but >> Well, it's getting close, you know. It's

getting to the point where, you know, there's no excuse for waiting three years because you could have AI generate scripts and do it in an hour.

>> What about uh F1? You guys following it at all right now?

>> The show or the actual >> the actual racing?

>> I went to the F1 that was in Austin. It

was amazing >> this year.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> It's awesome. for uh I think right now it's uh the first time in the last 15 years they've had three drivers coming down to the final race to win the

championship between them and the final race is this weekend.

>> Oh, really?

>> Yeah. It's like really >> Where is it?

>> Uh I think it's in uh is it in Abu Dhabi? I don't know. That might have

Dhabi? I don't know. That might have been the race that just happened. But it

was nuts, dude. It's uh because right now you had McLaren who is like a shoe in to have their main driver or at least the guy who is in the lead take it but they're refusing to favor one over the

other which is a typical strategy for whoever's in the lead. You'll have the other one kind of like block people for them to make sure they win the drivers championship.

>> They're refusing to do that.

>> Yeah. They're like making sure they can have equal opportunities to win, but the net result might now be none of them win and a guy from Red Bull takes the thing.

>> Oh, that's crazy. Is it because the drivers aren't willing to do that?

>> Uh, I guess, but also just lack of enforcement from the pit boss like team guy who's like supposed to be enforcing team uh principles and whatnot.

>> It is kind of funky that that's how you win. You have someone it's a team game.

win. You have someone it's a team game.

I mean like there's a there's team uh generated points between the two drivers which can result in the uh like team championship, but the thing that most people actually care about is who's the

best driver in the world, right?

>> And that will be coming down to one person. Even if it's a guy from a team

person. Even if it's a guy from a team that won the thing, they're still competing against each other. And

sometimes it can get pretty reckless where they're, you know, one is not willing to compromise and he'll like blow the whole thing up to make sure that he has the best opportunity understandably, but it's also like you

guys are getting paid tens of millions of dollars. Maybe you should listen to

of dollars. Maybe you should listen to your [ __ ] guy who's telling you what to do. This is an ad for Better Help.

to do. This is an ad for Better Help.

The holidays come with a lot of traditions. Gathering with family,

traditions. Gathering with family, cooking those once a year recipes, and leaning into the little rituals that bring everyone together. That's

something I always look forward to. But

there's another tradition I think we should all start doing during the holidays, and that's taking some time for ourselves. This season, you do so

for ourselves. This season, you do so many things for the other people in your life. You plan gets around everyone's

life. You plan gets around everyone's schedule. You spend hours picking out

schedule. You spend hours picking out the right gifts and cooking the right food, but you also deserve just as much attention. Otherwise, you'll burn

attention. Otherwise, you'll burn yourself out. So, do yourself a favor

yourself out. So, do yourself a favor and take some me time. Go on a hunting trip. Have a quiet night with a book.

trip. Have a quiet night with a book.

Maybe even schedule a session with a therapist. Therapy is an extremely

therapist. Therapy is an extremely effective way to make sure you're focusing on what you need. And

BetterHelp can easily set you up. They

have access to a wide network of fully qualified therapists and they do a lot of the work for you. Even if that first match isn't a good fit, you can easily switch to another therapist. This

December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% off at betterhelp.comj.

That's betterhp.comjre.

Yeah, I get it. But then again, if you're on another team, you're like, well, this is kind of [ __ ] because this guy didn't really win the race. He

won the race cuz his friends blocked everybody.

>> Yeah, fair enough. But I mean, like part of it is kind of like that. That's like

part of the strategy.

>> Oh, I get it. I get it. But maybe we should abandon that strategy cuz if if if it is a race.

>> Yeah. I guess it's just problematic cuz it's so bandwidth intensive too to manage the two drivers that if they're equally trying to win and only one is

more likely to what may very well happen on this weekend is they both don't win.

>> Interesting.

>> Yeah. So,

>> I got a tour of the McLaren uh pit last year and uh they they showed me like all the different technology that's involved and they gave me a like a rundown of how

much engineering is involved in these things and explained everything. It's

crazy. And they're all just trying to shave >> tens of seconds out of turns and then it all accumulates over the the course of the race. Yeah, it's like pretty

the race. Yeah, it's like pretty psychotic when you look at what the differential is and kind of like what really separates these guys. It's often

just like minuscule amounts and just like the littlest mistake, you know, >> what are those guys on?

>> That's what I want to know. Do they test them?

>> Uh, they are tested, but not to the rigor of like an Olympic.

>> Do they test them for gorilla mine?

[laughter] >> I'm sure they're probably using it.

>> This is probably a good thing for them to take. probably for something that's

to take. probably for something that's not banned. Yeah. But um

not banned. Yeah. But um

>> is any of this stuff banned do you think in Formula 1?

>> None of it. This is all like very straight edge uh like really tried and true neutropics that work through kind of like indogenous pathways or things

otherwise backfill neurotransmitters similar to like the creatine deficiency that we talked about. if you backfill it and you can otherwise, you know, have a readily available source of

phosphocreatine to offset ATP deficits, >> elyroine, stuff like that. Similar just

in regards to dopamine, for example.

>> I'm an hour in and I feel it. It's

legit. Yeah, it's very legit. And again,

it's very delicious. So, congratulations

on that.

>> Oh, thank you.

>> Um, those guys lose a ton of weight, too, during those races.

>> Oh, dude. So much water loss.

>> Yeah, cuz you're [ __ ] hot as [ __ ] in those suits. So, you don't burn alive if

those suits. So, you don't burn alive if you crash.

>> Yeah. some new different strategies like hyper hydration using things like liquid glycerol could be impactful to retain more water.

>> Do they wear a diaper?

>> I don't know. But uh

>> how long is the race?

>> Um it could be it kind of I think it depends but it's like upwards of an hour an hour and a half. So

>> yeah, just piss yourself.

>> Yeah, just sit in your own pee for an hour and a half. Yeah, I kind of You would have to.

>> I would imagine with that kind of money on the line, just [ __ ] let it go, baby.

>> Yeah. I don't even know if you'd have to though if you're just like persspiring like a [ __ ] They come out drenched, >> right?

>> Yeah. And they've lost like tons of weight. Yeah.

weight. Yeah.

>> But sometimes in the in the sauna I have to pee.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Yeah. Sometimes I'm like 15 minutes into a sauna session. I'm like, "God damn it, I can't hold it." So I got to open the door and go out and piss outside, then climb back in again.

>> Have you ever tried glycerol for hyperhydration?

>> No. What is that?

>> It's uh just like straight up glycerol.

It's like a sugar, but it also has a hyperhydrating effect that you can hold upwards of an extra pound of body water if you have it as a supplement. So, some

endurance athletes will use it before events in order to retain more uh water >> in a way that is not it enhances like thermmore regulation, your ability to tolerate stress. You don't lose as you

tolerate stress. You don't lose as you don't dehydrate as fast. There's a lot of upsides for its kind of like unique application. Maybe even avoiding pissing

application. Maybe even avoiding pissing at nighttime could be >> really >> potentially. Yeah.

>> potentially. Yeah.

>> Oh, that would help because I always have to pee.

>> Yeah. One thing that stop that helps me uh is sauna before bed though. Sauna

before bed. I can generally sleep through the night.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. So, I'll do like a session about an hour before I go to sleep and no water after that.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> That usually does it.

>> Yeah. If you do a water cut off, that's like pretty regimented. It's probably

the best overall strategy >> as long as you make sure you hydrate in the morning. So, I'm pretty diligent

the morning. So, I'm pretty diligent about that. First step in the morning,

about that. First step in the morning, amino acids with water. I I do that 99% of the time, like first thing before coffee, before anything.

>> And do you put electrolytes in it?

>> Yeah. Yeah. I take uh Gary Brea stuff.

It's called perfect aminos. It's aminos

and electrolytes. I get that in first thing in the morning, >> just, you know, get it out of the way.

>> And I didn't used to for the longest time. I would just hit the gym right

time. I would just hit the gym right away and just drink water when I was in there.

>> Damn. But I feel a difference.

>> What about I thought step one was cold plunge.

>> Yeah, it depends. Um I haven't cold plunged in the last 3 weeks cuz I got some stem cells. Um and uh I'm still saunaing. So it seems like there's a lot

saunaing. So it seems like there's a lot of controversy about this in terms of like what you should and shouldn't do

post stem cell injection. I have a a very minor Achilles tear. Uh when I was elk hunting in September, I I twisted my ankle pretty bad and I didn't think

anything of it. I I stopped limping after like 15 or 20 minutes and I was like, I think I'm okay. And uh I've and I was wearing uh at the time I was

wearing very light boots. They're like,

you know, um just a a real light boot that you wouldn't do for heavy mountain trekking. and we did some steep

trekking. and we did some steep elevation and then the real problem is going down and you're you know when you're going down like several thousand feet over the course of like an hour.

>> Yeah.

>> It's [ __ ] brutal. And I I twisted one of my ankles and then the next day I put on uh a much higher, more rigid boot with great ankle support and I was fine for the rest of the trip. But then

>> that's the [ __ ] worst one. You just

gota like stare at the ground the entire time you're walking because the littlest off you just roll your ankle or >> not only that you go down, you know, you could die. Um it's it was we were in

could die. Um it's it was we were in pretty steep country in Utah. But um

interestingly, I didn't notice anything was wrong until I'd get into a push-up position, >> which is weird. So when you know I do a 100 push-ups every morning, 100 push-ups, 100 body weight squats, that's

my warm-up before I do anything. And so

when I got into like a high push-up position with like my butt up in the air, it it's [clears throat] a lot of stretching on the Achilles >> and my left Achilles was [ __ ] killing

me. Like sharp pain. I was like, "Fuck,

me. Like sharp pain. I was like, "Fuck, this hurts." And I thought maybe I maybe

this hurts." And I thought maybe I maybe it needs to stretch out. So I did some like jump rope doesn't bother me. Jump

rope doesn't bother me. Nothing else

bothers me. But that position bothered me. And it was bothering me for like

me. And it was bothering me for like five weeks. And I was like, "All right,

five weeks. And I was like, "All right, I got to get this looked at because it seems like it's it might be getting worse every time I do that." Mhm.

>> And so, uh, I got a I got it scanned and there's a minor tear in my Achilles. And

Achilles tears are a [ __ ] nightmare.

You know, if you you blow out your Achilles, that's a nightmare. It's a

long rehabilitation process.

>> Blood flow to the area is pretty.

>> Especially at 58.

>> Yeah.

>> It's a [ __ ] it's that's a long recovery. It's like I'm looking at a

recovery. It's like I'm looking at a year before I could do everything again.

Then you're you lose all your gains, all your cardio g, everything. You can't

move right. It's you're [ __ ] So, uh, I got a stem cell shot in there and there's a lot of debate about when you should be able to cold plunge after stem

cells and a lot of uh the literature seems to say 3 months. It doesn't seem to think sauna. there's there's more

indication that sauna is probably therapeutically beneficial for uh for the stem cells because the idea is that these stem cells are still in the area

trying to heal the tissue.

>> When you coal plunge, you kill them, but when you're doing sauna, you're increasing blood flow and it might help them. So, what they said is like

them. So, what they said is like >> I wouldn't do anything for a couple weeks, >> nothing. And then after that, just sauna

>> nothing. And then after that, just sauna for a while. Yeah.

>> So, I haven't done a cold plunge in over a month.

>> Seems excessive. Not that I'm >> scared. I'm scared to go back in. Yeah.

>> scared. I'm scared to go back in. Yeah.

>> Because I was so used to it. [laughter]

>> Oh, you got to get over the hurdle again.

>> I'm so scared. Every time I do it, I almost don't do it.

>> Every [ __ ] time I do it, I almost don't do it.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, so like for the past month, it's just been get up and just work out and then sauna afterwards.

>> What's the uh rehab stack? Is it any different than what you were already doing or is it kind of like >> BBC57 TB500?

That's it. It's definitely improved.

>> BPC local in the >> Yes.

>> Achilles.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right there.

>> Or you just pinch the subq area and kind of Okay.

>> I shove it right in there. Uh I think local is the way to go. I've done it subcutaneously like in the side and love handles.

>> It doesn't have the same effect.

>> Yeah. If you can get it to the area, it's like why not?

>> You know.

>> Yeah. I think I think BPC57 locally is the way to go. Uh but it's definitely getting a lot better. It doesn't doesn't hurt at all anymore. Yeah. I'm just I'm just making sure it fully heals up.

>> Yeah. Interesting note on kind of like the hormone support stuff. Uh this past month, uh the FDA actually removed the most of the blackbox warnings off of

women's HRT products.

>> Yes.

>> Pretty amazing.

>> Yeah. really amazing because so many women were lied to for so long. They

were told that there's all these negative effects of supplementing your hormones, but my god, how many [ __ ] people just had lost quality of life for [ __ ] nothing, for no science at all.

It's just complete horseshit.

>> But there's so much bad [ __ ] science out there, man. Like it's it's a real problem. It's hot as [ __ ] in here.

problem. It's hot as [ __ ] in here.

>> There's so much bad science out there, man. It almost gets to a point where you

man. It almost gets to a point where you almost have to look at things through the lens of does this sound like nonsense?

>> Yeah. Well, and then where do you go?

Like who do you trust?

>> You know, unless you you're wellversed in who the respectable online people are.

>> Yeah. Like you might see us, you know, however many studies that say fill in the blank exotic compound is like totally ineffective and it's like >> who was it tested on for how long? What

was the dosage? you know, like it might be a completely useless interpretation for your specific nuance scenario. And

if you hear hordes of anecdotes from everyone in your circle you trust who actually knows what they're talking about, has been in the trenches, knows their body well, like you can't you can't really ignore that.

>> What what was the narrative about female hormones and why did they why did they do that for so long? Do you know? So I

think it was in the '9s the women's health initiative were assessing the viability and safety profile of uh hormone replacement therapy and I might butcher this a little bit but in general

the you know overall context is relatively accurate I'm sure and it was like of a thousand women or something that they tested HRT I say HRT I put in air quotes cuz like

>> estrogen >> not even like human bio identical estrogen it was like ecoin Horse piss derived estrogens.

>> Horse piss?

>> Yeah.

>> For real?

>> Yeah. So, it was like literally the most synthetic, you know, animal derived shitty estrogen that is not bioididentical at all. And uh also a

synthetic progesterine that is not bio identical to progesterone. just like a proesterine analog essentially that fulfills activity at the receptor but is olderwise like you know the equivalent

of putting you on like a micro dose of nandrallone or a micro dose of you know fill in the blank uh progesterine uh derived compound um or 19 derived

compound that facilitates progesteric activity but just is not progesterone.

So, it's like to try and say, you know, this horse piss derived estrogen formula and the synthetic progesterine we apply to these women is the equivalent of you having been on what you would otherwise

produce as a young, healthy, vibrant woman from a bio identical estradile and progesterone perspective. Simply not

progesterone perspective. Simply not accurate. But that's like essentially

accurate. But that's like essentially the comparison that they made and you know presented it as such. And the

result was a relative risk increase of breast cancer incidents, I believe, to the tune of like one of a thousand women. And the absolute number was like

women. And the absolute number was like three of a thousand in the placebo arm had uh breast cancer incidents and then I think four out of a thousand had breast cancer. So then the media ran

breast cancer. So then the media ran with a 26% increase in risk.

>> Oh, and so everybody got panicky.

>> Yeah. And like I might be misinterpreting one or two variables, but like high level that's essentially what it was. And it caused mass hysteria and panic and basically dictated the

facilitation of blackbox warnings being put on uh hormone therapy. So the most aggressive FDA warning that shows basically any clinician that's looking at it or anybody who's going to like

take the risk of using it. This is the most dangerous drug you could use with the highest risk of like lethal side effect potential. M

effect potential. M >> and then on top of that it just like wasn't representative of what is actual replacement therapy with what is the hormone you would be producing

naturally. So for years you know we went

naturally. So for years you know we went thinking oh it's going to cause uh clotting issues it's going to cause cancer it's going to do this it's going to do that and only in the most nuance

edge case scenarios is it justified because you know that person just absolutely has a quality of life deterioration is so significant that it's worth it to take the risk to use

orone replacement therapy. And it's like now similar to some of the like common sense interpretation of things. It's

like this doesn't make sense. Like look

at all this literature showing the cardioprotective effects, showing the neuroprotective effect, showing the bone support and integrity. Look at what you lose if you don't take these hormones.

Like you essentially giving yourself >> a worse quality of life inevitably and deterior deteriorating your health um unquestionably. Like with men there is

unquestionably. Like with men there is some semblance of residual activity you can maintain and some men maintain vibrant you know reasonable testosterone production till old age but with women it's kind of like

>> like right when the lights shut off like >> drops off a cliff.

>> Yeah.

>> It's interesting how the initial narratives get stuck in the public zeitgeist forever. Like the initial

zeitgeist forever. Like the initial narrative for testosterone replacement was you can get testicular cancer, prostate cancer. And it was just so many

prostate cancer. And it was just so many people like I don't want to mess around with testosterone replacement because I could get cancer. And then Brigham Beller explained that study.

>> Yeah.

>> And explained the the real results of that study and it's like it didn't show that anybody got prostate pro prostate cancer from it. It's just not true.

>> Yeah. And it's like even the mechanism by which they argue it would cause it doesn't even make mechanistic sense cuz it's like the only way you're going to increase the prostate growth is via

bringing and it's like of course when you use hormones that are androgens like you're going to grow tissues that they're exposed to but it doesn't mean it's a bad thing necessarily. And if

you're a hypoganatal male who has low tea and it goes up to just the threshold of barely acceptable, that's where the growth essentially stops. And if you go beyond that into like mediumnormal, high

normal, even super physiologic territory, your prostate doesn't linearly grow in exposure. Otherwise,

bodybuilders would have massive prostates like busting out of their bodies.

>> Giant dicks, too. [laughter] Imagine

that.

>> We wish didn't happen.

>> I wonder Well, how come it grows in large clitorises in women? because the

physiology is essentially interchangeable in that you could have gone in any direction dependent on your exposure to these hormones. So, right.

>> Yeah. So, if if a man exposes himself to significant amounts of estrogen >> and has no has hormone deprivation, there are some irreversible anatomical changes because they've already like

matured that will not go away. But like

with women, it's like the inverse. And

you could otherwise get closer to that like extreme scenario where you're once your voice box gets to a certain like anatomical uh development, you can't necessarily go

back to your high-pitched, you know?

>> Yeah. That's the problem with dransitioners. They keep that voice

dransitioners. They keep that voice forever. And it's the real problem is it

forever. And it's the real problem is it never even becomes a man voice. It just

becomes weird. [laughter]

>> You know what I mean?

>> Yeah. Yeah. trans men never develop a voice like you know Isaac Hayes.

>> Yeah, that's uh one of the one of the tough things with HRT too is like as much as I think it's so amazing that it's being you know educated about and there's widespread attention being

brought to the importance of it. There's

also the cowboy docs who almost go to the hyper extreme of optimization and are putting women on aggressive dosages of testosterone saying you've been lied to. you know, this is actually what you

to. you know, this is actually what you need to feel good. And for a woman who's been, you know, asexual for years and feels, you know, has no energy and they are told this guy is, you know, the

cutting edge doc who everyone sees, they will probably trust his guidance. And as

early as before I started Merrick Health, which is my company, my mom was getting hormone therapy guidance from a doc who was relatively wellresected. And

the dose he put her on of testosterone was so aggressive that her voice was changing within weeks.

>> Wow.

>> And I had to like cut the cord on it. I

was like, "What the hell is this?" And

her testosterone levels were like in the like 300s plus.

>> Wa.

>> Yeah. So like you're essentially low low normal healthy male territory. Not like

actually, but like on a clinical reference range. And absolutely

reference range. And absolutely potential for masculization.

>> Yeah. And also horny as [ __ ] >> Potentially. Yeah. But it's like you

>> Potentially. Yeah. But it's like you didn't need to go there probably to get to horny as [ __ ] >> My wife has a friend who got on it and uh she's a British lady and she had a very funny. She goes, "His stuff makes

very funny. She goes, "His stuff makes me feel like a bloke." [laughter]

>> She goes, "I'm horny like a bloke."

>> Yeah. Yeah. And it testosterone can be helpful in women for sure. And it's an overlooked uh hormone that is absolutely important in women just the same as it

is in men. It's just like you got to kind of know what you're getting yourself into too when it comes to like what is reasonable for a doctor to tell you you need and at what like

concentrations you should expect, you know, blood level targets to be. Cuz if

you just go in blind, you might end up with the most exotic, you know, like Beverly Hills doc who thinks you should be on like the craziest cocktail ever cuz he knows you're going to feel it

>> and respond really, really well immediately. but then also might just

immediately. but then also might just like [ __ ] you up permanently.

>> Well, this is also the problem with transitioners when when you're becoming a trans man, right? Um the initial impact is you uh alleviation of anxiety

and euphoria. You start feeling great

and euphoria. You start feeling great >> because that's what testosterone does for you. That doesn't mean you're

for you. That doesn't mean you're supposed to have that. Like your your body's going, "What the [ __ ] is this?"

And now you're, you know, essentially you're you're changing the whole cocktail of your body and you're, you know, >> Yeah.

>> And you're going to give permanent changes that if you make a decision when you're 14, 15 years old, they put you in this stuff. Those dransitioners are some

this stuff. Those dransitioners are some of the saddest stories, man.

>> Because they've become sterile. They'll

never have children and, you know, and they're lose their tits because they go to a doctor that thinks you should have your memorary glands chopped off when you're 15. It's [ __ ] so we're in the

you're 15. It's [ __ ] so we're in the weirdest of times with all this stuff >> because it's like what gets accepted and not accepted and what you know what become again like we were talking about the zeitgeist when when a thought gets

out there and then it's very difficult to move away from that it's like oh you're affirming your true self like really with with synthetic hormones that didn't exist in your body before. That's

that's your true self.

>> Yeah.

>> Are you [ __ ] sure? It sounds like this might be a social contagion that is like sweeping through the land. And

>> one of the things that's really interesting is the um the drop off of kids identifying as trans >> is it coincides directly with Elon buying Twitter.

>> Oh wow.

>> Yeah. Like immediately when you because you used to not be able to talk about it. You still like literally if you say

it. You still like literally if you say if you dead name someone from Twitter meaning like if you changed your name to Dominique and I called you Derek I could get banned from Twitter for life for

forever. That's great.

forever. That's great.

>> Just by using your old name. Like if I called Bruce Caitlyn Jenner Bruce I would get banned from Twitter for life.

>> Damn.

>> Cuz it's nuts.

>> Like but it's like this very bizarre social contagion. this weird mind virus

social contagion. this weird mind virus that went through the whole country >> and everybody just signed up for it like and no one wanted to be a bigot. So like

oh I don't want to be a bigot.

>> Yeah. I think as much as I think like access to drugs is super like you should have the full liberty to do whatever you want you that's where the importance of educating yourself is so critical

because you really don't know what you're subjecting yourself to. If you

have an immature brain too, you have not even had full like frontal lobe development to try and think you're going to make a sound decision with how you're going to impact your lifelong uh physiology. It's like probably

physiology. It's like probably >> you can't even have a tattoo. It's not

even legal to get a tattoo and you get your penis removed. It's [ __ ] crazy.

It's [ __ ] crazy. Oh, they know. Some

some people know as early as three. I've

had conversations with people on this podcast. I have friends that have trans

podcast. I have friends that have trans kids and they knew right away. Like, are

you sure they didn't have a [ __ ] insane mother and a gay child? Because

that might be what was going on.

>> Yeah.

>> And now this gay child will never have an orgasm again because you've convinced them they're not a gay child, that they're a woman, and which is in fact completely homophobic.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. extreme of the scenario, but maybe on the opposite is guys who are in their in adolescence who are so hyper educated that they use the

knowledge to biohack their development into becoming as maximally tall and like infrastructurally sound as adults as possible.

>> Right. Right. And that's a really interesting predicament because it's like any like reasonably ethical doctor will be like there's no [ __ ] way I'm touching that like case of any

overseeing anybody's care who was doing that kind of thing. I was watching a podcast about this where this guy was talking about his son and he's short and his son is short and his son's friends were also short and their parents got

the kid on growth >> when they were and they grew like a lot bigger than the parents >> which is Alexander Carellin.

>> Do you know Carellin's story?

>> Uh >> they called him the experiment. He's the

freakiest wrestler that has ever existed.

>> I know who it is but I didn't know that specifically was in adolescence that he was subjected to. Oh, this is speculation on my part. Have you seen my photo that I have out in the gym?

>> It's the photo that I put up to remind myself of what a [ __ ] I really am.

>> Is that when he's like about to [ __ ] hoist that? That picture. That one.

hoist that? That picture. That one.

>> Yeah, it's a famous one.

>> That guy was 300 [ __ ] lb and moved like a cat. [laughter]

Like unbelievably mobile and flexible and had like an insane record.

>> I think it was like 280 and1 or 280 and two. like [ __ ] insane. Like one of

two. like [ __ ] insane. Like one of the most dominant wrestlers of all time.

But there's um >> they call him in Russia they would call him the experiment. Yeah.

>> And you see his parents, his parents like 5'5, 5'7, like small people. And

he's this [ __ ] behemoth of a person.

And of course, the Soviet doping program is legendary. The movie Icorus

is legendary. The movie Icorus highlights that, you know, but everybody knew about that. The Eastern Block weightlifters, the females, they they set records that were never broken again. These women completely became

again. These women completely became men. Yeah. You know, like there's

men. Yeah. You know, like there's there's a lot of evidence that they were doing that to their athletes. The fact

that they wouldn't do it to their most dominant wrestler in the history of the [ __ ] sport and the guy who was the absolute biggest freak in the history of wrestling. Like there was nobody like

wrestling. Like there was nobody like that guy.

>> Yeah, we should talk about some of those Russian drugs. I heard uh you bring up

Russian drugs. I heard uh you bring up Prime Tazzine with somebody the other day. But before that, have you ever

day. But before that, have you ever heard of the Lionyl Messi story?

>> No.

>> Okay. So, did you know that he was destined to be a dwarf if he didn't get on huge amounts of growth hormone?

>> Really?

>> Yeah. So, he got supplied with pharmaceutical growth hormone by the team that was trying to get him to basically be with them.

>> Well, he's a small guy as it is, right?

>> Yeah. So, he grew to what is otherwise an acceptable adult height, but he otherwise was destined to be literally a dwarf, whatever the socially acceptable term is.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. So they either paid for his pharmaceutical growth hormone and admin like got it for him, paid for it, made sure he was taking it or he didn't become the greatest, some argue, you

know, the football player of all time.

>> Well, it's also you have to take into consideration like how much of effect did that have on his performance?

>> I mean, that guy can do things that no one else can do.

>> Well, he definitely wouldn't have grown to the height he is. And

>> it's not just the height. It's the the explosive movement, his ability to change direction like better than anybody.

>> The infrastructure is obviously supporting of it. I don't necessarily know. Yeah. It would be impossible to

know. Yeah. It would be impossible to like really quantify that. There's no

like, you know, uh AB test of it.

>> Right. Right. There's no placebo control trial, >> but you know, if he didn't do it, he would not be even playing.

>> Wow. I did not know that.

>> Yeah. That's probably one of the most overlooked but wild uh cases of a professional athlete who like needed to go like full board to the tits >> when it comes to >> How old was he when they did that to

him?

>> Like a young teen if not a child >> seeing 11 years old.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. It was like you either take this at the dose that is going to like push you to, you know, maximal IGF-1 output territory and we get you to as high of maturation as possible or you're not

going to be a professional player.

>> How tall is Messi now?

>> 5'7.

>> Wow.

>> Yeah, >> that's crazy. Well, you know, I told you the Yoel Romero story, right?

>> Probably.

>> Yoel Romero is the biggest athletic freak I've ever seen in my life. And

I've seen a lot of athletic freaks like >> Yoel Romero when he I believe it was in Australia.

>> He was uh fighting um and after the fight goes to a doctor to get checked up. He had a fractured orbital. He had a

up. He had a fractured orbital. He had a you know rough fight. Um the doctor examines him and then says to the UFC, "Where did you get this guy?"

>> Oh yeah. Did

>> I tell you this?

>> Yeah. And they go, "Hey, he's great, right?" He goes, "No, no, no. His

right?" He goes, "No, no, no. His

tendons in his eyes are three times the size of a normal person. Right. Right.

>> They said his orbital bone is already healing.

>> Crazy.

>> Like what did they do to him? Cuz he was on the Cuban Olympic program. Yeah.

>> You know, and the way he talks about it, like the program was like so regimented.

In fact, >> they had tiers of athletes and the um the highest tier ate three times a day.

>> The tier below that ate two times a day.

So it motivated you literally to get more food. Wow.

more food. Wow.

>> To compete and you're competing with these guys that their entire life is wrestling. That is everything. And it

wrestling. That is everything. And it

literally can feed their family. It's a

m matter of whether or not their family gets food, whether it changes your social status. And he goes, "And because

social status. And he goes, "And because of that, YOU BECOME A MACHINE."

>> That's how he's saying it. I could do [laughter] I could do a good yo.

>> You become a machine.

And he's the biggest freak of all time.

In fact, everybody who fights him says hitting him hurts.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. What um Robert Whitaker said is like hitting metal. He goes, "Dude," he's like, "You hit the guy. He doesn't

feel like a normal person." He goes, "It's like you're hitting metal."

>> He's still competing, but in uh was it one >> dirty boxing? His dirty boxing was his latest one. Um he's doing he's almost

latest one. Um he's doing he's almost 50. He's jacked as [ __ ] now. He's a

50. He's jacked as [ __ ] now. He's a

heavyweight, full six-pack, almost 50 years old, [ __ ] gigantic. I mean, now he's got to be geared up. I mean, I would imagine because he's in these like fringe leagues that, you know, >> you'd think >> their drug test is a [ __ ] multiple

choice. [laughter]

choice. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> What do you want? I'm on Jesus.

>> He had that famous speech. He was

saying, "Don't forget about Jesus."

>> He goes, "Don't forget Jesus."

>> And everybody thought he was saying, "No gay. Jesus is not gay.

gay. Jesus is not gay.

>> Oh my god.

>> And so they thought he was homophobic.

And he's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no for gay Jesus." But he was saying, "Don't forget Jesus." Like, "Jesus is important." And everybody's like, "Oh my

important." And everybody's like, "Oh my god, Yoel Romero used his platform to say homophobic things after a fight."

Like, >> no, he can't speak English very well.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> You know, and he's religious.

>> I feel like Yeah. that guy, he uh I always felt like if he just kind of like threw himself into the fire more, he could just like crush it.

>> The problem is cardio. When you're

carrying around that much weight, >> you know, first of all, wrestling, his wrestling was above and beyond anybody else, >> but he was just like slug when he didn't need to.

>> Well, they get in love with knocking people out, first of all, and that guy's explosive capacity was >> he knocked out Chris Weidman, one of the [ __ ] scariest flying knees I've ever seen in my life. It was a great fight up

until the moment he put Chris Weidman into the shadow realm, but he hit him with this flying knee just explos you.

So what he's tired or whatever, >> then he jumps on you and his ability to close the distance is so it's like you think about wrestlers like um did you see Bo Nichols last knockout?

>> Um >> he knocked out Riea with a head kick.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> It was spectacular. But what Bo Nick, Bo Nichols is an elite wrestler, like a topshelf blue chip wrestler. And one of the things that wrestlers have is this ability to close distance because

they're, you know, they're on the outside and they can just shoot doubles.

So that explosion naturally lends itself to closing the distance and striking because, you know, it's the same kind of thing if you develop good striking. And

Hadalfo Vieira, who's like [ __ ] super jacked, but he's a a ghee jiu-jitsu guy.

Ghee jiu-jitsu is all about strength and control technique as well, but it's a a tight game. It's not a game of like

tight game. It's not a game of like jumping, moving across distance quick.

It's a game of they're gripping each other and then, you know, it's a lot about strength and it's a lot about technique, but it's not about closing distance. So Hadalfono Vier is like a

distance. So Hadalfono Vier is like a plotting like really super jack guy and Bo Nichols just light on his feet moving on the outside and just closing distance

cracking him getting out and and he hits him with this [ __ ] bomb head kick and puts him to sleep.

>> But it's that that that ability to close the distance. Nobody did that better

the distance. Nobody did that better than Yoel. Yoel was the best at that

than Yoel. Yoel was the best at that because he's just a [ __ ] unbelievable athlete. And with Izzy, he fought Ezreal

athlete. And with Izzy, he fought Ezreal out of Izzy said, "Dude, I had to stay on the outside with that guy. I could

not just go after him because the counters would come so fast. He he yo caught him with a big left hand early in the fight and he was like, "Oh, well, [ __ ] this." He's like, "We're going to

make this a boring fight. I'm just going to win a decision on this motherfucker."

>> Because it's just the consequences of being too close to him where he can do that. Yeah,

that. Yeah, >> it's just you have to fight a technical fight with that guy. Stay on the outside. Pick at him. Move a lot. Don't

outside. Pick at him. Move a lot. Don't

set Don't set your feet ever. Never be

in a place where he can just like because he can just launch on you and blast you.

>> Yeah. The on the flip side of that, the leaping uh in the middleweight of Chamay, ruthless to watch. That was like the most painful fight I've seen recently.

>> Oh yeah, the trick is duplic fight.

Yeah. Well, that's just levels and levels above everyone else.

>> Just like closing distance even when you know it's about to come.

>> Yeah.

>> Once he gets his hands on you, you're [ __ ] His his that there's something about that that kind of wrestle wrestling from the Chetchins and the Dagistanis and me maybe even him more

than any of the other ones >> is it's just so aggressive and he chains things together so well. And if you're not training with guys like that, like

Sha told me that he went to see Chamay when Chamayv was in training camp for Drakus Tupacy and he called me up. He

goes, "Dude, listen to me." He go like, "Shab was a top 10 UFC heavyweight. He's

been around forever, you know, was in he was in camp with George St. Pierre when

George St. Pierre was in his prime. Nate

Markwart when Nate Markwart was his prime. He's like, "Dude, I've never seen

prime. He's like, "Dude, I've never seen nothing like this." He goes, "They were bringing in worldclass wrestlers and he's [ __ ] ragdolling them." He goes, "He's a freak." He goes, "He's going to

[ __ ] Dus up." I go, "Really?" He goes, "Dude, if he gets a hold of that guy, he's fucked." Turned out to be 100%

he's fucked." Turned out to be 100% accurate.

>> Yeah. It was like the most obscene example I've seen of >> his wrestling it's obscene. That's a

great way to put it. He's his wrestling is obscene. And if you can't compete,

is obscene. And if you can't compete, like this one thing that I said about Drius after that fight was like that gap is so wide that's like jumping across the Grand Canyon. You're not going to

make it. Like you would have to start

make it. Like you would have to start you'd have to get a time machine, >> go back to the time when you're six and start wrestling in Dagistan. Like you

you've you've got to like have those kind of skills to compete with that guy.

>> Yeah. Only an elite wrestler who can also strike is gonna be able to [ __ ] with that guy.

>> Unless he gets silly and decides to strike with someone and they KO him.

Other than that, I I just can't see anybody [ __ ] with that guy.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's uh I guess needs somebody stylistically to match up to really >> Bo Nickel.

>> Yeah.

>> But but Bo has to grow as a fighter, you know? He has to he has to grow as a

know? He has to he has to grow as a fighter and he's doing that. I mean,

he's a >> unbelievably dedicated and disciplined guy. And if anybody can do it, he can do

guy. And if anybody can do it, he can do it because he's got that elite wrestling that like if they had a wrestling match, it would be fantastic.

>> But [clears throat] Chamay is a much better striker right now. At least has been up until this last fight with Vieira, which was a huge knockout. But

Vieier was kind of a standing target for for Bo.

>> What did you think of the uh Usman positive test result?

>> Kind of interesting.

>> Oh, the bigger Usman. His older brother.

>> Yeah, duh.

>> That's a duh. He's [ __ ] >> I'm uh Yeah, I mean >> unfortunate, you know, because the heavyweight division is so devoid of talent.

>> Yeah.

>> Gable Stevenson is the [ __ ] guy.

That's the guy. That's the guy. He's not

even in the UFC yet. I mean, that Olympic gold medalist, [ __ ] freak athlete, 250 lbs, moves like a cat.

That's the guy that he's every I I sent a text message to Dana White. I sent him a video of Gable's last fight. I said,

"Everyone's [ __ ] Everyone's [ __ ] when this guy comes out. He KOed this guy with a left hand. He KOed this guy with a left hand and then took him down as he was knocked out. Watch this

knockout because it's so [ __ ] crazy the speed that this guy has. First of

all, really good striking already and he's only been striking for like a [ __ ] year. But watch when he KOs this guy, he hits him with a punch. Boom. And

then takes him down.

>> Jesus, >> dude. Everyone's [ __ ] And then just I

>> dude. Everyone's [ __ ] And then just I mean that's just nuts, man. That kind of speed is nuts for a heavyweight.

>> Yeah.

>> Look at that left hook. Boom. Takes him

down. Smash.

>> And then >> that's like a video game combo.

>> Exactly. And he can do back flips and [ __ ] When he fought in dirty boxing, he knocks the guy out and then he leaps over the top rope and lands on on the apron. Just leaps over the top rope with

apron. Just leaps over the top rope with like effortless. Yeah.

like effortless. Yeah.

>> Freak. Just a real freak. And again,

just like watch this KO when he KOs this guy. Well, first of all, this guy has no

guy. Well, first of all, this guy has no business being in there with him. But

this is just boxing. This is uh what they call dirty boxing. Boom. So he

could ground and pound guys.

>> So is this like the modernday DC sort of.

>> Oh, he's he's maybe even better. And

bigger. A lot bigger. You see how he jumped over that rope? Watch that again.

>> Super athletic but like doesn't kind of unassuming.

>> Exactly. Well, I mean, not really unassuming. He's a [ __ ] house man. It

unassuming. He's a [ __ ] house man. It

just doesn't higher body fat.

>> But look how he jumped over that rope.

>> Oh yeah. When you see that, of course it's >> Watch. Show that again.

>> Watch. Show that again.

>> Yeah, that was insane.

>> Well, look. Look how the effortless.

Look at just effortless.

>> Leaps over that [ __ ] That's like 5 ft. He just jumps over it like it's

ft. He just jumps over it like it's nothing.

>> And after fighting.

>> After fighting and but literally with no effort. Just hops over it like it didn't

effort. Just hops over it like it didn't exist. Lands perfectly.

exist. Lands perfectly.

>> He's a freak, man. and and and he's training with Jon Jones and you know he's training with like some of the best fighters and he's training and he's trying to fight every month. He's trying

to get as much experience as he can before he gets into the UFC and he's coming and everybody's in trouble.

>> How old is he?

>> 25.

>> Oh jeez.

>> They're all [ __ ] >> Yeah.

>> Everyone's [ __ ] >> I mean everyone is [ __ ] because there's no other than John, there's no one that can wrestle with that guy in that sport. And the thing about a guy

that sport. And the thing about a guy who could wrestle like that is if he can strike like that, the problem with wrestling is you're always worried about the takedown. So that opens you up to

the takedown. So that opens you up to strikes. Yeah.

strikes. Yeah.

>> Because you're always like every faint you're thinking he's going to shoot for your legs, but then boom, he catches you with a left hook. And the speed that guy has, it's like a lethal combination of

athleticism, speed, power, size, and an insane wrestling pedigree. I mean,

Olympic gold medalist, as good as it gets with wrestling. I think the last time I heard you talk about a guy like this, at least when I was on, was uh Pereira before he came in.

>> Similar.

>> Similar kind of thing where he's a specialist, >> you know, but >> you're like, "Watch out for this [ __ ] guy."

guy." >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Oh, yeah. I remember DC was like, "Come on, man." I'm like, "Dude, I'm telling

on, man." I'm like, "Dude, I'm telling you, this guy is different."

>> Cuz I had been a huge fan of Pereira when he was fighting in glory and you know, you'd watch him hit guys and they'd go flying across the ring like, "What the [ __ ] is that guy made out of?"

And when you like when I interview him, like I put my hand on him, it's like this table, dude. He's like made out of oak. Like he's [ __ ] dense. And

oak. Like he's [ __ ] dense. And

there's something about the way he throws punches. Have you ever seen him

throws punches. Have you ever seen him punch that that machine? You know that machine that like generates like it shows >> effortless, but it's like super high power.

>> He hit it with his right hand because his left hand had been bothering him and he got 190 >> the the pre like Francis Enanu got a 129. He got a 190 with a right hand.

129. He got a 190 with a right hand.

>> Crazy.

>> It's [ __ ] insane, dude. I got like 150 with a kick.

>> This guy got 190 with a punch.

>> Jesus.

>> 190 is insane. And it's his right hand.

I bet his left hand is probably 200.

It's [ __ ] See if you can find that video.

>> Got deleted from the way I was.

>> It got deleted.

>> The way it was being [laughter] advertised. When you Google it, it broke

advertised. When you Google it, it broke the internet there.

>> Like, hide it somewhere else. Bro, he

hit so hard that Mark Goddard after he fought Khalil Roundtree after he just beat Khalil Roundtree across the octagon beat Mark Goddard when they were announcing the KO and you know raising

his hand. Mark comes up to me at the end

his hand. Mark comes up to me at the end of the fight he goes >> the sound the sound it makes when that guy hits people is ungodly. [laughter]

He goes I've been doing this for 20 years mate. He goes it's ungod. Watch

years mate. He goes it's ungod. Watch

this.

Oh my gosh, [laughter] >> bro.

Bro bro.

>> Yellow.

>> Play that again. Play that. Just look at the force that this guy generates.

There's something about there's it's the leverage because of his tech. That's us

watching it.

>> 170.

>> Well, that's nuts. Yeah,

>> that's nuts. He's got power is a weird thing, man. You're born with it.

thing, man. You're born with it.

>> Like nothing else. Like there's a lot of skills that you can acquire, but there's a threshold to how hard you're going to be able to hit. And I think it's based on body mechanics. It's based on the the

frame. It's based on the size of your

frame. It's based on the size of your hand. He has massive hands.

hand. He has massive hands.

>> It's based on there's just a lot of factors. Explosive fast twitch muscle

factors. Explosive fast twitch muscle fiber. Some people don't have a lot of

fiber. Some people don't have a lot of it. Some people are more of an endurance

it. Some people are more of an endurance fighter and they don't hit as hard, but they could just get you with combinations and they put you away eventually.

>> But Pereira is different, man.

>> It's like in like he's like David David Gogggins always likes to say, he's uncommon amongst uncommon men.

>> Yeah.

>> It's interesting that his uh his chin seems to be holding up really well considering Yeah. And he, you know, has

considering Yeah. And he, you know, has been knocked out before. He's getting

older and like he seems fine. Well, it's

because he was not cutting weight anymore. There's nothing that [ __ ] your

anymore. There's nothing that [ __ ] your chin up more than dehydration. When he

was losing weight, he was getting down to 185 pounds and he was weighing in the day of the fight at 226.

>> 226 weighing in at 185, you cut weight and then rehydrating up to 226 a day later.

>> Damn.

>> Like, you don't rehydrate your brain, man. And so, you can't take shots. You

man. And so, you can't take shots. You

can't take shots as well. And it's a it's a common thread amongst fighters like Jack Hermanson.

>> He got knocked out by Gregory Rodriguez >> at 185. And Gregory Rodriguez is another one. He's a freak. Just a giant 185.

one. He's a freak. Just a giant 185.

Like it doesn't even make sense. You're

standing next to him. I weigh 200 lb and I stand next to him. I'm a little short me. And I'm like, how how the [ __ ] are

me. And I'm like, how how the [ __ ] are you 15 lbs lighter than me? That's not

even It's not This is science. Like it

doesn't even make sense.

>> And so Jack went down to 170 and just got KO'ed the other day. Bad.

>> Yeah.

>> Just bad.

>> Yeah.

>> Because I think that you're way more vulnerable.

>> Like Frankie Edgar is a perfect example cuz Frankie when he was in his prime at 155 didn't cut any weight. He was one of the rare guys that was a 155 lb champion

that was actually 155 pounds when he fought and just amazing durability because of that because he didn't he didn't dehydrate himself. So he he was like optimal. And there's like this

like optimal. And there's like this point of diminishing returns where you know you're physically bigger, you're stronger, but you can't take shots and you also fatigue quicker because your

body essentially almost died 24 hours ago.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, these guys get to death's door to make weight. Their whole face is sucked in, their eyeballs are pulled back in their head.

>> Yeah.

>> It's kind of crazy.

>> Yeah. I think uh more attention is going to come to how to actually ensure your brain stays safe in the sport for longevity purposes as people kind of realize how impactful like the weight

cutting especially can be but also like if you end up getting knocked out >> you might not come back the same and some of the strategies that should be employed after those fights as well to actually restore as quickly as possible

and avoid permanent degradation.

>> Well, it's like there's there's two schools of thought. There's one school of thought that I'm in which we need to expand the weight classes so we have more weight classes and we need to

somehow or another institute some sort of hydration policy where you cannot dehydrate yourself and weigh in and pretend that you weigh 170 when really you weigh 210 because there's there's a

lot of guys doing that. And the other school of thought is they should be able to hydrate with IVs. >> Yeah.

>> Because they used to be able to hydrate with IVs. the bloodb brain barrier like and the hydration of the brain. It takes

much longer to rehydrate your brain than it does to rehydrate your muscle tissue.

>> Yeah.

>> And so these guys are going in there, their muscles are full, but their brain is dehydrated and they're vulnerable to getting knocked out. And I think that's what happened with Pereira, uh particularly with the Izzy fight, but

Izzy caught him with a picture perfect right hand just right on the chin and then followed it up with a left hook.

But it was just he didn't have the durability at 185 that he has at 205. At

205 he's been dropped like Khalil dropped him. Guys have dropped him and

dropped him. Guys have dropped him and you know Ankolia have rocked him but he can take it. He could take it at 205.

>> Yeah.

>> And now he's talking about going all the way up to heavyweight >> which is kind of crazy.

>> Yeah. I mean like all power to him if he does. [ __ ] Who doesn't want to see

does. [ __ ] Who doesn't want to see >> Oh yeah. I mean I would love to see him fight Jon Jones at the White House. And

what's your ideal White House card look like?

>> Jon Jones versus Pereira for sure. Um

Conor McGregor versus uh Michael Chandler. That would be awesome. You

Chandler. That would be awesome. You

know, you want to have some fun. Like

that's that's a fun fight. Um

>> you know, and then you'd probably want like Islam Makachev versus Ilia Tuporia.

That would be insane, you know. Maybe

even at 155. I don't know if Islam even wants to make 155 anymore, but Ilia said he would fight him at 170, >> which is crazy because Ilia's smaller than me. Like I that's that's another

than me. Like I that's that's another guy >> walk around with it.

>> I don't know. Uh I don't know. But

that's another guy that has the touch of death. There's guys that that just have

death. There's guys that that just have freaky power.

>> Hopefully he doesn't let his personal [ __ ] derail whatever is happening.

>> Oh, I [sighs] know. I know.

>> Like you're in your late 20s and it's like not the time, bro.

>> I know. It's crazy. I don't know what happened with the wife. I don't know if it's a coincidence, but I mean, you can't I'm sure the internet has their speculation,

but the timing is very odd with like one of these interviews he did where somebody was almost seemed to plant in his head that like if you meet a a wife

in uh Miami that she's probably like not a you know, good uh you know, >> is that where he met her?

>> I think so. Yeah. And it was like >> but he lives in Spain. And somebody I forget who it was, but somebody like jokingly said, "Oh, you met like it looks like you can meet quality women in Miami crazy." Like you would have never

Miami crazy." Like you would have never thought. And then he was like visibly

thought. And then he was like visibly shook. He was like, "What do you mean by

shook. He was like, "What do you mean by that?"

that?" >> Oh no.

>> And the guy was like, "Did I just offend you and you're going to [ __ ] me up or like what is happening right now?" And

he was just seemed to like almost internalize that. Is there a reason I

internalize that. Is there a reason I shouldn't trust Miami women and I haven't considered it? And then it just like you can't help but think with the timing the [ __ ] wheels are turning.

>> Oh god. I didn't know that he met her in Miami. I don't know if that's even true

Miami. I don't know if that's even true cuz he lives >> or if it even is like relevant at all.

But it's just weird timing.

>> I would imagine it's relevant meeting a woman in Miami.

>> Like I mean the the factors certainly support that it's like a more likely chance that she's not the person she represented herself as potentially. But

>> well, not just that. It's the culture of Miami. I always say that if you want to

Miami. I always say that if you want to starve to death, open up a bookstore in Miami. It's like people are just

Miami. It's like people are just parters. It's like you should have a

parters. It's like you should have a passport to go to Miami. It's barely

America. It's fun. It's great city. a

lot of fun, but it doesn't really lend itself to like the kind of like sturdy stay-at-home mom support for a world

champion because the discipline involved in being not just a world champion but a world champion on Ilia's level, you know, like two division dominator goes up, knocks out Charles Olivera like it's

nothing, which is not only that had a celebration >> the night before the fight, celebrating victory. That was almost like Gordon

victory. That was almost like Gordon Ryan [ __ ] like times two. Like

>> and even apologized to Charles. I'm

sorry it has to be you. You know, I love you. You're a great guy. Sorry it has to

you. You're a great guy. Sorry it has to be you.

>> Like super respectful of Charles. He's a

legend.

>> You know, and then flat lines him in the first round. Like he said he was going

first round. Like he said he was going to. He's like he's like, "Trust me, I'm

to. He's like he's like, "Trust me, I'm going to knock him out in the first round." One punch. Boom.

round." One punch. Boom.

>> Touch of death. It's like he's There's guys that have And for him it's like not a big guy, right? like not extremely muscular. Like there's nothing. He's not

muscular. Like there's nothing. He's not

massive, but it's mechanics. His

mechanics are [ __ ] perfect. His

timing is [ __ ] perfect. Belief in

himself, technique, everything. It's

like all the above. But it's like there's guys that you can't let hit you.

And Ilie is one of them. And I I think that probably carries all the way up to 170. I just don't I mean the difference

170. I just don't I mean the difference between so 170 look at him and then look at some of the big 170s like Jack Dela Matalena he's a [ __ ] big guy like

there's like big like Michael Venom Paige he's [ __ ] huge that would be a nightmare matchup >> for for Ilia if he really did decide to go to 170 a guy like Venom because you can't hit that guy

>> like and if you can't hit that guy and he can hit you and he's a point fighting champion so that is the absolute best style of the blitz of like being able to close distance quickly. Nobody does that

like that. MVP. He's the best at it.

like that. MVP. He's the best at it.

>> The best at it maybe of all time.

>> Yeah. I wonder if it'd be kind of like when Canelo tried to go up and then it was kind of like >> and he fought BVA. Yeah. Yeah.

>> I could see that sort of being the outcome where it's not as uh >> Yeah, could be. But Canelo it's like later in his career, you know, but it's like there it would be a giant

>> but also you have like the disadvantage of it's actually MMA versus just boxing.

But like, yeah, the guy is one of the most exciting guys to watch.

>> Has is a great representative, too. When

he was on your show, dude. Oh my god, dude. It's like, could you have said

dude. It's like, could you have said more right things, you know?

>> Yeah, I know.

>> He's great. And then that just is unfortunate for any misalignment of your personal life at this time of your career. Somebody's got to get him

career. Somebody's got to get him >> a bad woman. [laughter]

[ __ ] terrible.

>> He's got to get his boys in his corner.

Just like get his mind, you know, dialed.

>> He has children with this lady, too. So

it's like, "Oh god."

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean,

>> it's like, you know, that's what it is regardless of what he's saying. You

know, when he's like, "I got to get my personal life in order and the timing of everything." And I think there's

everything." And I think there's actually, is it publicly media about the There's like a divorce now or something.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's public. Yeah.

>> Jesus Christ.

>> Well, she's taking photos with rappers and [ __ ] >> Yeah. Putting it on Instagram.

>> Yeah. Putting it on Instagram.

>> No.

>> Yeah. You know how they do it? They try

to steal your soul. Put a [ __ ] knife right in your spirit, >> dude. That's crazy. Yeah, man. There's

>> dude. That's crazy. Yeah, man. There's

hell has no fury like a woman scorned.

It's a >> Well, hopefully that helps him think he made the right call then, I guess. You

know.

>> Yes. But does that help? This is the mother of your children and this lady is a monster. And

a monster. And >> there's nothing worse than feeling like psychologically duped by somebody too.

>> Well, I don't know if it is psychologically duped or if it's like once she's not on your side, you know, then it's just burn the house down, >> you know? And there's a lot of ladies like that because they feel like

>> you you hooked up with a guy who is an incredibly special human being. The

rarest of rare. You not just a UFC world champion, but a two division world champion superstar who the whole world wants to see and you're his wife. So you

you like, "Oh, look at me. I'm married

to the baddest [ __ ] alive." And

then he doesn't want to be with you anymore. Like, "Oh, really? Well, I'm

anymore. Like, "Oh, really? Well, I'm

going to [ __ ] take you down." And

women, that's what they love is reputation destruction. That's what

reputation destruction. That's what they're really that's what they really are experts in when [ __ ] goes sideways.

>> What's the typical outcome of these cases where it's like super famous person, wife claims that she's 50% responsible for their success, tries to take half. Is that like if there's no

take half. Is that like if there's no prenup that's kind of just what happens?

>> Depends on where they are, right? So I

don't know where they got married, you know, where they're getting divorced. I

was like, is it in Spain? what kind of laws to >> He seems like a super traditional guy who like probably didn't even get the right [ __ ] set up.

>> God, I hope not.

>> He seems really like innocent, you know?

>> He looks like a perfect marriage.

>> Yeah, >> that's what's crazy. But this is the the ugliness of social media, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Is that everybody wants to put out this pretend image of perfection that everything's perfect and so you have photos of you holding hands and walking

together and kissing. I love you more than anything in life. And you post it out there for the world and you you're putting on a show for the world, but meanwhile there's like all sorts of internal [ __ ] that's going on.

You're trying to work through and you're hoping it works out and >> and then when it falls apart, you're like, "Fuck." And then you got to go

like, "Fuck." And then you got to go back on your Instagram and delete all those pictures. [laughter]

those pictures. [laughter] >> Isn't it better to just like not talk about any of it publicly and just like keep your relationship [ __ ] like private? You would think

private? You would think >> I think most of your life you should keep. I think social media in general

keep. I think social media in general and that not just for famous people just in general is way worse for people that it is good especially Instagram.

>> Yeah.

>> Um I think many a person has ruined their life on Twitter. Many a person has said things on Twitter that's tanked their career ruined their life. You know

it's just >> the motivation to get attention for your words and your images is very toxic.

It's very dangerous and you're playing with explosives. It's just not smart.

with explosives. It's just not smart.

It's just not a good thing to engage in.

I am much happier when I rarely am on social media.

>> And so I [clears throat] like dip my toes in, see what everybody's mad about, and then I get the [ __ ] out and move on with my day.

>> And I never try to portray myself in any way other than who I actually am. I

don't >> I'm not interested in like some [ __ ] >> you know, some video montage with [ __ ] music and

inspirational quotes. If somebody else

inspirational quotes. If somebody else makes that, that's fine. I'm not

involved.

>> But I'm not putting anything like that up and checking the likes. Get the [ __ ] out of here. That's bad for you. I think

it's bad for your the good and the bad.

The negatives, the people hating on you is bad for you. Like, oh, that's not me at all. Hey, why are you saying that?

at all. Hey, why are you saying that?

And then the good's not good for you either, cuz you start believing your own [ __ ] and think your [ __ ] doesn't smell. It's crazy. It's bad for you.

smell. It's crazy. It's bad for you.

It's just It's the opposite of mindfulness. It's the opposite of being

mindfulness. It's the opposite of being in the moment. It's the opposite of that cuz you're like living for other people's attention that you don't even know. You don't even know these people

know. You don't even know these people and you're allowing them to comment on like your wife and your family. You're

holding her hand and you're renewing vows. cuz you're on your knee presenting

vows. cuz you're on your knee presenting her a ring with in a video. What the

[ __ ] are you doing? Like, why would you do that? That's a private thing. If it's

do that? That's a private thing. If it's

real love, it should be between the two of you.

>> And if it's like if you're really working, work hard in silence. What is

this? What are you doing? Like, what is all this about? But it's just for likes.

Everybody is addicted to these likes.

You I want to see the numbers. Only

6,000 likes. This is crazy. [laughter] I

bared my soul for you. I just think it's really bad for people and also it's like most people don't know what fame really is. They think they do and then they get

is. They think they do and then they get it and then they think they can manage it and then the the the the [ __ ] psychology behind it and the the spinning that goes on in your mind when you're trying to go to bed and you're

worried about all the mean things people are saying about you. It's like

it's just bad. It's just not good.

What's the strategy now for you have burner phone or like how do you do just like divorce yourself from >> I just don't read it. I don't read anything.

>> Um and I don't >> You did a burner phone for a while.

>> Yeah, I Well, >> or was it just [ __ ] annoying?

>> I do have a burner phone. Well, I I don't have a burner phone. I have a phone that I give to people that are just annoying or that I don't really want to like I leave it at home and never check it. So, there's there's certain like business stuff and I don't

want business stuff to be entering into my life all the time. So, I want to I have like regimented times where I check things and respond to people. But I

think my next phone number, which I'm changing soon, is going to be no social media at all. And then my other phone number, I'm just going to do that with it. I'm just going to do my social media

it. I'm just going to do my social media posts, all the stuff that I have to do, like, hey, I got a show coming up or, hey, this guy was great. It's podcast

happening. Post and ghost is what I do.

Post, then get out of there. But I'm not going to have any social media on my new phone. I just generally think it's bad

phone. I just generally think it's bad for you and it gets in the way of it's it's an abuse of precious resources.

That's what I think.

>> So, do you have uh like podcast and stuff on it or like how do you do you entertain yourself with actual social media or like how >> No, I'll entertain myself with YouTube.

>> It's hard to not like have this [ __ ] infiltrate when you have like a taste of it. It's like before you know it, you're

it. It's like before you know it, you're sitting on the toilet looking at social media or something. Yeah, that's a night another nice thing that I like to do is not look at my phone when I'm on the toilet. Just go to the toilet and just

toilet. Just go to the toilet and just leave it there. I've been leaving my phone on do not disturb, too, which is also a nice thing. I like doing that.

Put it on do not disturb and check it occasionally. Every now and then check

occasionally. Every now and then check it. And, you know, you could set up do

it. And, you know, you could set up do not disturb where certain people can get through, like my wife can get through, my kids can get through, best friends can get through. But it's just like I I

think that for the most part what you're what you're doing is you're using very valuable resources on things that aren't valuable at all.

>> Yeah. It's part of the reason I uh work best late at night. As much as I would love to have the perfect circadian rhythm and, you know, go to bed at the perfect time and align it with the sun going down. It's like the only time my

going down. It's like the only time my phone and all the stuff is not blowing up is in the middle of the night and I can just focus and not have to think about stuff, you know, blasting me.

>> Me, too. Yeah. My best writing is always late at night when everyone's asleep.

>> Yeah. And that's

>> also it's like >> there's something about late at night where the world seems a little bit more crazy that I I think my mind is like a little more tuned to danger and chaos and just like it it seems like more

heightened cuz it's dark out, you know?

It's dark out and everyone's asleep. I'm

like, what is the world really made out of? Like that's where I do my best

of? Like that's where I do my best thinking.

>> It's funny because when I look out, I just see like calm. There's no traffic >> and I'm just like this is nice.

>> That too, but I I night is when I worry about war. That's when I worry about

about war. That's when I worry about God dude.

>> Yeah, that's [laughter] I know it's not good. Sometimes I let it get in my head.

good. Sometimes I let it get in my head.

>> That's when I get my most anxiety about the future of the world. It's like

night. There's something about that. Do

you still smoke uh weed a fair bit or >> allegedly?

>> Yeah. Um how's that?

>> It's great for writing. Oh, that's not good for paranoia. [laughter]

>> I fig That's what I was asking.

>> Yeah. Well, it makes you like hyper sensitive to >> to danger, too. And yeah, but it's really great for creativity. For

creativity, there's nothing like it. And

for comedy, it's a steroid. It's like

the best like it is the best performance-enhancing drug ever created for writing comedy. Oh, really?

>> Yeah. There's nothing like it. Like

especially edibles like you you you have thoughts that like you're like okay I don't even know if I would ever have that thought without weed. Like that

thought is weed wrote that joke. I

barely barely had anything to do with that.

>> What's the ideal edible dose?

>> Depends on your tolerance. Talk to zero tolerance. Oh 10 10 milligrams might

tolerance. Oh 10 10 milligrams might [ __ ] you up though. Maybe five. Maybe

five is good.

>> You know that's like in the places where it's legal like if you go to New York or LA they they I think LA has a 10 milligram threshold. I think you can

milligram threshold. I think you can only get 10. That's the highest you can get. 10's a lot for someone who doesn't

get. 10's a lot for someone who doesn't do it.

>> But, you know, Joey Diaz will pop like a 250. Two. He'll pop a f He'll pop two

250. Two. He'll pop a f He'll pop two 250s.

>> He's a [ __ ] freak, though. Like, his

tolerance is like nothing I've ever seen in my life.

>> He used to dose people. He would take like a 25 milligram edible and he take the wrapper off and put a 250 milligram edible in and give it to his co-host.

>> Oh my god, [laughter] dude.

It's like I think it's funny, but like I'm not >> It's only funny because it's Joey. If it

was anybody that is in love, you'd be like, "What the [ __ ] is wrong with you?"

But when Joey does it, you're just like, "Oh my god."

>> So you just think you're dying like unreasonably or something.

>> You just know. And he's over there laughing.

>> And [laughter] you're just sitting there spiraling knowing that you [ __ ] you up.

>> Yeah. He just always says, "I want to see the devil." He goes, "Fuck this mic with those thing. I want to see the devil." He likes seeing the He likes

devil." He likes seeing the He likes getting freaked out. he likes it. Um,

but I mean for creativity, I think it has a place.

>> That's the comedian juice right there.

>> Yeah. I think, you know, not for everybody. Some people don't like it at

everybody. Some people don't like it at all. You know, I know some really great

all. You know, I know some really great comics that are stone cold sober and for [sighs] them it's just they just like to sit and think. But, um, a lot of the the

best ones that I know, they um have flip switched over to either a flip phone or uh a phone with nothing on it, no social media at all. I [snorts] think

eventually you realize like that time you're spending just scrolling mindlessly through things that's such it's such precious resources your time you only have so much time in a day and

you're spending time just looking at nonsense but it but also the other side of it is you do want to have your finger on the pulse of society. You want to kind of know what's going on in the world.

>> Yeah. If you're a comedian, how do you even like talk about pop pop pop culture and stuff that's trending or whatever?

Well, interestingly enough, I get sent enough things.

>> Oh, it's like consolidated for you.

>> Yeah. I get sent enough things by my friends that are [ __ ] up that I don't have to go looking.

>> So, I'll go, Jesus, is that real? And

then I'll maybe, you know, do a search and find out that it is real and then read about it and like go, "What?"

>> But that I think is probably valuable because it's keeping you informed. It's

the endless mindless scrolling that I think is the most detrimental and the the one that robs you of the most time because you know you could be sitting down at the kitchen table and all a sudden you have this plan for the day.

You're going to get going. You're

drinking a cup of coffee and then you know 45 minutes is gone.

>> Yeah.

>> 45 you get a brutal [ __ ] workout in 45 minutes but you didn't do anything.

>> There's nothing more guilty feeling than having wasted like your six to eight really sharp mental hours any any part of that on something that dumb. I feel

so bad when I do it. When when I have done it in the past, I just feel >> and it's like, how did I do it again, you know?

>> Yep. How did I How did I let it get me again?

>> Yeah. It's like you feel like a like an idiot or like a druggie or something.

It's like >> Well, you are you're you're a lowlevel druggie, you know? It's a low drug. It's

not even a good one. It's not even like I feel great. This is amazing. Like, it

doesn't even do that to you.

>> Sean um Sugar Sean Ali had a great quote. He said, "Even when I'm just

quote. He said, "Even when I'm just regular scrolling, even it has nothing to do with me." He goes, "I get a low-level anxiety."

low-level anxiety." >> And I'm like, "Yeah, me too." Like, it's weird. And I think that low-level

weird. And I think that low-level anxiety is like a little bit of, you know, you're wasting your time. You

know, >> for sure.

>> When he fought Morab the second time, he got totally off social media for like months and months.

>> Oh, probably the best strategy.

>> Yeah. It still didn't help, >> you know.

>> Yeah. I mean, at least he put in like did what he thought would work though. I

mean, did his best. There's a lot of people that will succumb to the pressure at the max level and check the, you know, what people are saying about them, who's going to win. [groaning]

>> That's the worst, man.

>> Watching your training footage you posted and >> this guy talking about whatever.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, some people thrive on it. They

like haters.

>> Bodybuilding is the worst for it, too.

I'm sure it's just as bad in MMA, but it's like your entire physique is like your social media brand. So it's like you you post your physique and then the

feedback you get you kind of have to look at I guess because it's like what you compete with too. So you're

literally taking judge feedback that's subjective and taking what they're telling you is wrong with your body to fix >> and then you're just bombarded by people in the comment section are like you lost

because of this. You're lazy. How did

you not get in shape? And it's like even down to the lighting on stage can make you look much worse than you actually are. be like, "You showed up with soggy

are. be like, "You showed up with soggy glutes, bitch." And it's [laughter]

glutes, bitch." And it's [laughter] like, "I'm [ __ ] shredded." Like, what are you talking about?

>> Soggy glutes is hilarious.

>> Yeah. And it's like back in the '9s, uh I don't know what it was, but it was like some of the lighting, too, was almost so bad that it gave this granular, sharp, kind of like pixelated,

but like etchy look to the physiques and it would look like they were more cut and defined and just better down lighting overall. And some of these

lighting overall. And some of these shows, they're so washed out with the high resolution and like the perfect and when I say perfect, it's like almost overexposed lighting to show what's going on on the stage

>> that they look watery and fat even when they're like, and I say watery and fat like, you know, like the [ __ ] up perception of the fitness industry.

>> It's like proportional to what you're expected to look like. But it's like they could be shredded out of their mind and like having worked so hard to show up in shape and then just get like decimated online from some [ __ ]

keyboard warrior who's like >> your back is like too watery, bro. Go

back to the [ __ ] elliptical, you know? [laughter]

know? [laughter] >> Well, it's also like bodybuilding is the sport of ego, right? Because it's only about what you look like.

>> Yeah. It's crazy.

>> That's the whole thing. It's not about how fast you are. Like like look look Gable I was like he's not shredded >> you know but he's ultimate freak >> you know look like BJ Penn in his prime like there's a lot of guys who are they

were never shredded >> they they were always just smooth and [ __ ] people up David Benvdas another one like elite worldclass boxer light heavyweight champion a little muffin top

just f did you see this last fight Benvitas fought uh Anthony Yard >> uh >> okay perfect contrast just happened last weekend >> I missed on. Yeah,

>> Yard is [ __ ] shredded. He is an Adonis. He is a Greek god. He's

Adonis. He is a Greek god. He's

literally like, you look at him, there's no way if you saw the two of them, you would say that guy on the left that has no abs and is smooth is going to [ __ ] destroy the guy on the right. Nobody

would believe it. See if you can find >> Yeah. the two of them together.

>> Yeah. the two of them together.

>> There's no way. There's no way. David

Benitz is one of the scariest guys alive because he's relentless. He's so [ __ ] skillful. He's so fast. Is brutal

skillful. He's so fast. Is brutal

combinations, but he's so unimpressive physically looking at him. And Yard

looks like like you would expect in a movie. Like the perfect the perfect

movie. Like the perfect the perfect scary opponent. Like there's Benvdas.

scary opponent. Like there's Benvdas.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Like look at him. I mean he looks like an athlete, right? Looks in shape. But

now where do you see yard first? Sorry.

first? Sorry.

>> Look at Yard.

>> Oh [ __ ] [snorts] >> Shredded.

>> Yeah. like fitness

>> [ __ ] shredded and brutal power, too.

But he just couldn't [ __ ] with Benvitas.

See, go uh way deep into the fight before he stops him.

Yeah. I mean, Benvdas was just putting it on him. Just standing right in front.

And Yard, the thing about having that much musculature, there's just a reality of your, you know, the the oxygen.

>> Yeah.

>> Just beat the [ __ ] out of him, man. And

Yard's really good, man. He he's a really good boxer, but Benvita's like, look at the difference in the physiques, man. His physique is perfect.

man. His physique is perfect.

>> Yeah. I mean, it's almost like a limitation for some people where you're just like sapping up so much oxygen carrying capacity to supply the tissue, >> but it's, you know, it's also there's a

skill gap. I mean, Benvditz is super

skill gap. I mean, Benvditz is super [ __ ] skillful and his he's this is the guy that people say Canelo has been avoiding >> and he kind of probably has >> because Benvitas is the upand cominging

Mexican champion that everybody loves and Canelo is, you know, the king and everybody was like this is the big fight at 168 and so Benvitas had to go up to

175 to get big fights because Canelo wouldn't fight him at 168.

>> Huh. Canelo is uh is he just kind of like picking and choosing?

>> Look at this. Look at this, bro. Come

on, man. This [ __ ] guy is good. He's

so good. He stands right. He's young,

man. I think Benvitas is Is he 28? How

old is David Benvitas?

>> He's young.

>> Okay.

>> Young and elite and going through his prime right now. How old is he?

>> 28. Yeah.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah. [snorts] In his prime. You know

who's even more unassuming is like half the NHL players that play hockey.

>> Oh, really?

>> Oh, dude. Like, have you ever seen somebody look more like a frat bro who does not play sports? [laughter] NHL

players.

>> Well, those guys have crazy cardio.

>> Yeah, that's crazy.

>> But you would never think like I used to bounce downtown Vancouver and we'd have the teams come by that would play the Canucks and they would come party at the Champagne Lounge and the club that I was

bouncing at. and he'd be like, "This guy

bouncing at. and he'd be like, "This guy is like, you know, a professional athlete." It would be the whole team and

athlete." It would be the whole team and half of them looked like, you know, some dude that's like you'd do like a [ __ ] cake stand with at like, you know, a [laughter] party and that's like the max of his athletic capacity is being like

held up to chug some beer or something.

>> Well, I bet those guys drink a lot.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> I bet out of all the athletes that drink, it's got to be hockey players at the top of the heap, right?

>> Yeah. And they're uh they're [ __ ] super athletic or good endurance, you Oh, it's like just so unassuming physique-wise. It's like

physique-wise. It's like >> it's all legs.

>> Yeah, >> it's got to be all legs. I bet they're shredded from the waist down.

>> Yeah, it's crazy seeing like the sport specific translation in actual like physical like physiology that's conducive to your sport. You see a sprinter and it's like, you know, he's a [ __ ] 100 meter sprinter

>> and then you see, you know, another guy and it's like you might not even think he plays sports. You know, I I thought that when I went to the professional soccer uh uh team here in town, Austin

FC, they these guys have these [ __ ] quarter horse legs >> and then like real thin upper bodies.

Like they don't use their arms. They don't I mean it's literally unless you're a goalie, you don't use them.

Yeah. So they have like tiny little upper bodies, massive [ __ ] legs, and insane cardio because they're constantly sprinting. They sprint for 90 minutes. I

sprinting. They sprint for 90 minutes. I

mean, they're just running around sprinting.

>> There's a a couple outliers that do look up uh Adam Trayori, I think it is. I

might be totally butchering, >> but Ronaldo. Ronaldo's pretty

>> Ronaldo's pretty jacked, though.

>> He's He's jacked.

>> He's like the hyper optimizer, too.

>> He really is. I mean, that guy won.

Remember there was a thing where they tried to give him a Coca-Cola and he [ __ ] took it aside. Said, "No, Awa."

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> And and Coca-Cola lost like a billion dollars in stock. Whoa, look at that guy.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That guy's a freak.

>> Yeah. Well, there's always going to be freaks out there.

>> Yeah. But it's crazy to see a guy like that excel so well, too, at a sport that you would think he'd kind of be like uh barely chugging alone.

>> Well, that's probably just cuz he's been doing it his whole life, you know, and he has unbelievable genetics.

>> Yeah, >> genetics are a nutty thing, man. You

can't outrun genetics, but they don't always help. Like, look at Yard. Yard

always help. Like, look at Yard. Yard

has perfect genetics, right?

>> Yeah.

>> And then Benvitas, you would look at him and you go, whoa, that's not the best genetics. Like if he was a bodybuilder,

genetics. Like if he was a bodybuilder, you'd like get the [ __ ] out of here.

>> Yeah. It's crazy, too, because sometimes you might just have like nice looking round muscle bellies, but you don't actually have like mitochondrial density to support athletic endeavors. So,

you're kind of just like a show thing.

You're just like a cosmetically pleasing athlete, but not actually able to translate it into anything.

>> Yeah, that's weird. I've always thought that was weird. I always thought that was weird and striking because there's a lot of guys that are just built like [ __ ] brick [ __ ] houses and then you see them hit the bag and be like

>> this is nuts. Like you have zero power.

It's weird.

>> Yeah. And it's like you would think objectively more muscle equals but sometimes they're like weak as [ __ ] even in lifts. It's just like the development

in lifts. It's just like the development the hypertrophy they get from it is just disproportionately better.

>> That's weird. Can that be optimized though? like if they have like

though? like if they have like unbelievable looking physiques, is it just that they're not doing as much because they don't need to to look great?

>> I think there's definitely specific training for purposes that would be conducive to sport that maybe they some might be neglecting for sure and ways to optimize for like like for example, you

don't do hypertrophy work for bodybuilding because it's not conducive really to what you're trying to get. And

I think some some people they want the best of both worlds and they want to like look the part and also perform. So

they might be >> sapping bandwidth that could be allocated towards more optimal things that don't make them you know as cosmetically pleasing.

>> And there's definitely things you can do from a uh support standpoint when it comes to you know nutrition supplementation etc. But like you are ultimately going

to be capped to some extent by genetic coding when it comes to like density of certain receptors and like you can upregulate it to whatever capacity you can but like you can only push it so far before you've kind of you know

>> capped out.

>> It's interesting because like the really bulky guys they just never have the same fluidity that the guys that are built like Benvitas have where the the the punches flow and these effortless

combinations of perfect technique. the

really jack guys that look like they're they're destroyers.

>> The flexibility is so much more limited too when you're like that though.

>> Oh yeah. Unless you really work at it.

>> Yeah.

>> Really work at it.

>> Yeah. And you have to have a intentful approach to making sure you can maintain, you know, the flexibility that might otherwise just be innate to somebody who doesn't have to deal with a giant deltoid that like

>> Right. Right. Right. Yeah,

>> Right. Right. Right. Yeah,

>> you know, uh, Jaco, you know, Jaco, um, you know, I've hunted with him before, and Jaco, like a correct archery release. Correct archery release is

release. Correct archery release is you're supposed to get a surprise shot.

So, as a shot breaks, your arm kind of goes back like this. Jaco is so jacked and he has such limited motion that his archery release is like this. Like, it

doesn't But he's doing it correctly, but his it doesn't move the same way. It's

all just choco smash, you know? He's

just his body is designed to choke the [ __ ] out of you. Like that's all it's for. His bo his His body is designed to

for. His bo his His body is designed to get a hold of you, take you to the ground, snap your [ __ ] arm in half.

That's what it's for. It's just force and and strength and you know and it like it's funny. I'm like I'm like does your arm not move that way? He's like,

"No, it doesn't doesn't go back." I'm

like, "That's funny cuz I I'm watching him watching his archery release. It's

perfect.

>> But there's, you know, you watch like a like a Levi Morgan, a world champion pro archer, like as the shot breaks, their arm just goes back like naturally just like flows. His just goes, it just moves

like flows. His just goes, it just moves a little bit.

>> When I was uh at my peak of bodybuilding size, I was in the middle of a job as a lifeguard and teaching swimming lessons to kids. And part of the teaching

to kids. And part of the teaching swimming lessons would involve showing how to do the different strokes of, you know, back crawl, front crawl, breast stroke, all the different things. And

when you're like a 265 lb bodybuilder, it gets pretty difficult because not only do you just sink harder because you're, you know, mostly muscle, but also like just even trying to get a straight arm past your head, it's

impossible. So I actually had to stop

impossible. So I actually had to stop teaching swimming. [laughter]

teaching swimming. [laughter] like your ears, your [ __ ] shoulders are slamming in >> like it would look like you couldn't even do what you're trying to teach like a [ __ ] six-year-old or something.

>> Very few guys work on mobility. A great

example of someone who does is Arman Sukian. Arman Sukian who just won. He

Sukian. Arman Sukian who just won. He

beat Dan Hooker two weeks ago or a week ago. His mobility training is [ __ ]

ago. His mobility training is [ __ ] super impressive. Like s he's jacked.

super impressive. Like s he's jacked.

Have you you seen Arman?

>> Yeah, he's pretty >> shredded. He's a guy that like doesn't

>> shredded. He's a guy that like doesn't pass the smell test. You're like,

>> there's a way to improve mobility, by the way. It's just a lot of bodybuilders

the way. It's just a lot of bodybuilders like do not care, >> right?

>> And like there is some anatomical limitations ultimately if there is muscles literally in the way. But I just want to put out there like I'm sure I could have figured it out if I cared at the time >> perhaps, but at 265 with your frame.

>> Oh yeah, I would have been limited by like the actual anatomy, but like I had no care for optimizing mobility or anything. I was just like, "What's my

anything. I was just like, "What's my max bench?" Show a photo of Derek when

max bench?" Show a photo of Derek when he was jacked. When he was super jacked cuz there's some photos of him out there that are You were preposterous.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Do you miss those days? You ever look at that physique and go, "Damn, I look pretty [ __ ] good."

>> No, I mean I feel like I've come to peace a while ago with not looking like that anymore. It's a lot of upkeep,

that anymore. It's a lot of upkeep, dude. To like

dude. To like >> Yeah. Look at you then. Is that at your

>> Yeah. Look at you then. Is that at your height?

>> Uh >> I think you were a little bigger than that at one point.

>> Yeah, I think this is uh like a profile picture. So yeah, that that was a more

picture. So yeah, that that was a more recent one. It was probably like how I

recent one. It was probably like how I lost 75 lbs in the bottom left is probably Yeah. Right there. The fat

probably Yeah. Right there. The fat

maybe one of those. That shot probably is one of the big >> Bro, you got big at one point in time.

Was that how you were before you started lifting?

>> Look at that old school Blackberry you have.

>> So that that dates it just by the phone.

>> Oh yeah. Yeah. It was uh um I was like trying to be a competitive uh bodybuilder and I just kind of realized that I could look good for you know like

fitness industry I guess for kind of looking jacked for Instagram or whatever and like doing okay at like a regional level for you know a lower tier level of physiques but like bodybuilding to take

it to that next level. It was just like a level of stress I wouldn't be able to one be willing to sustain and then two it just wouldn't have been worth it because it was like I had tried pushing

drugs and like I just wasn't responding to a level I knew I needed to to continue and justify using that much.

>> Is it a genetic thing?

>> Yeah. So it's like your uh androgen receptor content is a uh largely predetermined. There are some things you

predetermined. There are some things you can do similar like mitochondrial density and things of that nature that you can do to upregulate and improve it.

Um, and certain supplements you can use, but ultimately your number number of muscle fibers are going to be limited.

Like there's going to be people who are just at baseline, you know, Chihuahua looking humans that if you put them on gear, they just become bigger Chihuahua humans essentially, but like they're

never going to be, you know, Yeah.

they're never going to get to, you know, Mr. Olympia caliber and there's a certain like muscle belly that's more conducive to looking bigger and also being able to support certain body weights is even like a health thing too.

It's not just how well do you respond to drugs, it's also how long can you take them without dying, >> you know? So it's like some of the most highest uh performing and like excelling

athletes are individuals who can tolerate this stuff and not go you know crazy from the >> some people mentally cannot handle these level of androgens and they you know it wrecks their sleep it wrecks their uh

blood work it wreck they get really early cardiovascular disease >> psychologically too they go crazy >> yeah yeah I've seen deaths in you know late 20s mid30s and so >> there was a guy that uh was Vtor

Belelffort's trainer when Vtor first entered into the UFC. So, Vtor when he first fought in the UFC weighed 200 lb in his UFC debut when he fought uh Trey

Teligman, that was UFC 12. And he was like a super athletic, fast, lethal black belt with vicious hands. And then

when he fought Randy Couture, he was 240 and his neck started at the top of his head. It was he just look looked like a

head. It was he just look looked like a lion.

>> It was a giant [ __ ] trap.

>> Yeah, it was just ridiculous. He was

just ridiculous. And the guy who was uh working out with him, this guy Curtis, wound up dying very young. And we used to call him garden hoses cuz this guy's veins were he was so vascular. It was

[ __ ] ridiculous. We worked out next to him like, "Bro, you got garden hoses for veins. These are [ __ ] insane." He

for veins. These are [ __ ] insane." He

was just insane. And he was so big. Like

so big. 300 plus, 510, 300 plus pounds.

Just [ __ ] jacked.

He was so big. And you know, he had Vtor convinced that >> that was the way to go. just [ __ ] hit the gas full speed.

>> Yeah. I mean, at his peak, he was uh one of the sauciest dudes, right? At least,

you know, he was like the perfect hybrid of athleticism meets like crazy looking physique, I would say. At least at the time, from what I can recall.

>> Well, the TRT Vtor was Vtor. So Vtor on the gear when he was younger and then no gear for a while lull period and then when they had TRT in the UFC where they

allowed it when it was legal which was a crazy few years that that people call it the TRT Vtor years where Vtor was just dominating everybody.

>> Yeah.

>> Him and Overim are like poster childs.

>> Overim was the that is the poster child.

See if you can find a video of Arman Sukian's uh mobility workouts.

>> I just had it.

>> Do you have it? because he does really interesting stuff. Oh yeah.

interesting stuff. Oh yeah.

>> Yeah. Like uh stuff I've never seen um UFC athletes do, >> but I would think would be really conducive especially to like scrambles in weird grappling positions where you

want to have strength in like odd like odd positions of your body where you're stretched out and >> not that bad. There's one on the side just showing >> Oh yeah. I can't imagine that.

>> So this this kind of stuff like this kind of stuff.

>> Yeah.

>> Like look at this. Like look at all these things. So he's doing these kind

these things. So he's doing these kind of things all the time.

>> Oh yeah.

>> Just to maintain that kind of flexibility along with all that mass and all that power that he has.

>> Yeah. Getting out of some of those awkward positions. Like you got to be

awkward positions. Like you got to be able to get into weird spots comfortably. And

comfortably. And >> yeah, this is look at that. Like that's

crazy. That's crazy [laughter] rotation of his back. Yeah,

>> he's got amazing mobility. But I do have to say he also has back problems. >> Ah, >> and it might be one of the reasons why he does this.

>> I mean, yeah, when you go exorcism on the [ __ ] twister machine, I can imagine [laughter] he probably end up with something.

>> I don't think that's what caused it, honestly. I think it's probably

honestly. I think it's probably grappling. Like, he's a really elite

grappling. Like, he's a really elite grappler. There's a video of him

grappler. There's a video of him grappling with Hamzot and he keeps up with Hamzot and they're two weight classes separated and Hamzadot is [ __ ] fantastic and you know they're

scrambling and it's it's like a very competitive grappling session.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's uh and circling back to some like you know the sauce days and like the garden hose guy. I do

think it's good that the education is out there though for people to be able to know how to not die from this stuff now because it's >> Whoa. That's Curtis.

>> Whoa. That's Curtis.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. That's him.

>> Cuz back then it would just be like >> Go to that photo again in the upper left. That upper left photo. That's

left. That upper left photo. That's

crazy. Guy was so vascular. Like look at his bicep. [ __ ] bananas, right? Look

his bicep. [ __ ] bananas, right? Look

at that right bicep. And his chest. He's

got [ __ ] garden hoses on his chest.

Full chocolate but chocolate face, too.

>> He had chocolate face.

>> Or Milanot, not the wazy.

>> Well, you know the guys that do it now where they keep their face white because they don't want to be called out for having black face. Have you seen that?

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, it is funny.

>> Have you seen the I think we looked at the melanotan people peptide.

>> Yeah, melanotan 2 is a one of the I don't know if it's an obscure one, but I guess maybe proportional to some of the more widespread ones nowadays, but it's like a melanoortin receptor agonist and

actually an analog of it is used for women for uh hypoactive uh like low sexual drive. So it actually enhances

sexual drive. So it actually enhances sexual drive too. So there's like a component there's a version of the drug that doesn't tan you that just like makes you hornier that women are prescribed called Vilei and then men

there's no drug approved but you could theoretically take it but it gives you boners and also makes you tanned if you take the melanotan too.

>> Yeah.

>> Huh.

>> Yeah. So it's like for bodybuilders and it also suppresses appetite as well.

>> Whoa. It really does that.

>> That's Well, that's a weird uh the the lighting on that one on the right is weird.

>> It's like from the Yeah, it's right on the Daily Mail. It seems like they might have >> No, no, no. Dude, this is actually possible.

>> I like how it says that, too.

>> You can literally manually become black with this drug.

>> Didn't some lady take that? She was on like one of them Sally Jesse Raphael shows.

>> Yeah. And she claimed she was black.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

>> Yeah. And she's like, "Look at me. What

are you going to tell me I'm not?"

[screaming and groaning] >> Yeah. She started talking like, you

>> Yeah. She started talking like, you know, >> Oh god.

>> Yeah.

>> How wild.

>> Yeah.

>> What if it did it to your hair, too?

Turn.

>> It does cuz it's all pigment related.

So, it does make your hair blacker as well. It makes your facial hair darker.

well. It makes your facial hair darker.

>> What does it do? Does there something like that for guys that have gray hair?

>> Uh, yeah. Like, it does it to your >> Is this the Yeah, this is the lady.

[laughter] >> Forgot about this.

>> Look at her boobs, too. Oh my god.

>> It's crazy.

>> That lady might be insane. Like, I'm

guessing yes.

>> And it's like, you almost wouldn't even think it's real if you weren't told by somebody that you actually can go that far. Like it's it's literally you pick

far. Like it's it's literally you pick your dose and the exposure to the sun will dictate via the dosage like how dark you get and you can go all the way.

>> Interesting.

>> Yeah. What? Like

>> full chocolate body.

>> Is there any side effects?

>> Yeah. You get really nauseous if you overdo it. Um it's actually a really

overdo it. Um it's actually a really potent appetite suppressor. So it's like one of the back in the day I used you could find my before and after. Type in

melanoten 2 more plates more dates. see

my before and after the last time I used it. But

it. But >> And did you use it for bodybuilding to try to Yeah, >> cuz I'm pale as [ __ ] So like for me, the thought of having a tan was pretty awesome. There's me with my CPAT mask

awesome. There's me with my CPAT mask on. [laughter]

on. [laughter] >> If you'd take it with a CPAP mask on, >> I was just like, I look kind of [ __ ] shredded. I'll take a pick.

shredded. I'll take a pick.

>> That's funny.

>> If you scroll down, you'll see my back before and after. Uh if you keep going there, right there.

>> Oh, wow.

>> Yeah. Yeah, that's like weeks apart.

>> Does tan you.

>> Yeah, >> dude. You had [ __ ] giant lats, man.

>> dude. You had [ __ ] giant lats, man.

That's nuts.

>> Yeah, >> you could jump off a [ __ ] [laughter] cliff and fly like a squirrel.

>> Yeah. What a weird pose. You just stand there like >> Yeah. Well, bodybuilding is weird,

>> Yeah. Well, bodybuilding is weird, period.

>> Yeah, >> it is odd. It's just like the whole idea is not the function. It's not

performance. It's just looking giant.

>> Yeah. It's like some of the exercises don't even translate the way you think they would, too. like you do a you get really good at the bench press and then you do something else that you think is like pushing related or like force production. It's like oh I'm weak as

production. It's like oh I'm weak as [ __ ] here for some reason even though you thought it would translate but there's not like a it's almost training uh neuronal patterns too more than even just like the muscle and you get

hypertrophy but you're also kind of just like training yourself to get really good at specific movements in a way that has like no application to a lot of sports typically >> just to look jacked. There are more like

functional choices obviously, but like the ones most conducive to bodybuilding and not getting injured are oftent times like you know the typical kind of like beach body style things, but there

they're more intelligent choices for sure. It's not all that. Right.

sure. It's not all that. Right.

>> That's the thing though is like the the the guys who lift the heaviest and do it. That's that's a very odd thing like

it. That's that's a very odd thing like and then they wind up getting [ __ ] like Ronnie Coleman wind up really getting [ __ ] up from Ronnie was like famously one of the heaviest lifters as a bodybuilder

>> and for what it's worth. I'm absolutely

not like above this style of training.

Like this is like what I still kind of do to be honest. So it's like I do you know I'm still a fan of bodybuilding. I

don't want to like speak poorly on it or anything. And we oversee some of the

anything. And we oversee some of the best bodybuilders on the planet right now as well and make sure they can do it as safely as possible because it's still a dangerous sport and um you know you

got to take modern knowledge to not screw yourself up nowadays.

>> Would do you ever tell a guy like you just don't have the genetics to ever do this at a professional level? Do you

have ever have to have that conversation with people like you're you're pushing the gear so hard and it's not responding? Like if I had a friend um I

responding? Like if I had a friend um I guess maybe similar to your like heartto-heart you had with Sha about MMA at the time when it was like not really worth continuing to expose danger wise.

>> Yeah.

>> It's you know often a lot of these kind of situations happen in bodybuilding where it's like you have a close friend who's taking exorbitant amounts of drugs and you know it's just like killing him

and you know that the like you're not going to make it to the Olympia. So

really like what are we doing this for?

Yeah, >> you got better opportunities elsewhere.

Like I've had that conversation a couple times. But in general, it's kind of like

times. But in general, it's kind of like you kind of have to have the selfawareness to know. And I think fortunately, that's

to know. And I think fortunately, that's part of where the education comes in is back in the day, you wouldn't know that you had the bad genetics. You just think everyone's taking more [ __ ] than you >> cuz you wouldn't really you thought

there was a secret that you didn't know.

There was some special drug that they sourced from Europe that you're not getting, >> right? you know, they have the secret,

>> right? you know, they have the secret, you know, fill in the blank thing that the guru at the Olympia level who's coaching all the top bodybuilders has and you just need to get to the next level and get your IFBB pro card and

then maybe I'll get to work with that guru and then he'll give me access to that drug and then I can take it to the next level. And then before you know it,

next level. And then before you know it, a lot of these guys are still grinding for really like low-level shows or like to place poorly even at like the entry

level of professional and their health is a wreck and they're not really going to make it to where they think maybe they're on the path to >> and so I don't know. I think the more,

you know, transparent look into it has made a lot of people more self-aware to check themselves and also to know if they're even because you have to respond well from a health standpoint, too. It's

not just how good do I look in the mirror. If you have wrecked blood work

mirror. If you have wrecked blood work or you have a uh abnormal uh anatomical structure of your heart before you start subjecting yourself to hormones, these

are things that are all checkable now proactively and you could tell beforehand if you're a good candidate not just from a muscular response standpoint but also from a health tolerance standpoint.

>> I wonder what if any um what what factor genetic engineering is going to play into bodybuilding.

>> Myostatin inhibition. Yeah.

>> Um there is gene therapies that are being utilized now. They're just not that efficacious.

>> Is myostatin inhibitors are they are people using them now?

>> Pharmaceutical pipelines are trying to integrate them in order to offset muscle catabolism induced via GLP-1 uh agonist

like semiglutide.

>> Yeah. So, it's kind of a unique time because not only do we have really aggressive fat loss agents that actually work now that are not simply stmming

your brain to, you know, to high hell, which a lot of the previous drugs worked like that. Now it's like we have these

like that. Now it's like we have these effective things but they make you eat so little that we now the next thing is there's all this attention on how to lose healthy weight and not you know a

bunch of muscle weight because there's more education around the importance of losing you know fat and not muscle which is metabolically active tissue health supporting whereas if you just end up

skinny fat you might be no better off than when you started depending on the person. So,

person. So, >> so some of the more refined currently being developed drugs are like >> these fat loss uh appetite suppressing

agents with concurrent like thermogenic properties for energy expenditure and then muscle preservation mechanisms built in that inhibit myostatin or act through other pathways to try and keep

the muscle on you. Yeah, Brigham from Waste to Well was explaining that they're using some people rather are using GLP1s in conjunction with IGF and they're they're combining a bunch of

different things to offset the bone density and muscle loss >> and then also encouraging weightlifting while they're doing it because a lot of people are just taking them and then just shriveling because look, if you starve yourself, you will lose weight

but you're going to lose bone density, you're going to lose tissue, you're going to lose everything. Yeah, that's

like one of the I think most important components of the usage of them is especially with you know women who might be otherwise not even integrating it into their regular life. They just end

up eating less of what is already a nutrient poor or protein poor diet and aren't strength training as much as I guess proportionately to men. And it's

becoming more prevalent among women obviously, which is great. But like the bone loss and muscle loss is significant among anybody who is depriving themselves of nutrients like that. And

then >> heart tissue too.

>> Yeah. Like I mean everything, you know, you're basically self-inducing malnutrition.

>> I just can't you just diet.

>> I mean is it is it really a discipline thing with not with people that are severely obese? Like I'm in favor of

severely obese? Like I'm in favor of GLP1 ones for people like if you're 500 pound which but but I do have to say Jelly Roll did it on the Natch. He did

it on the Natch. He did not take GLP ones. He's not he's not taking nothing,

ones. He's not he's not taking nothing, man. That guy is just working out every

man. That guy is just working out every day and he just cut all the [ __ ] out of his life.

>> He got rid of his phone. He didn't have a phone for He has one now, but he didn't have a phone for the [ __ ] longest time.

Even his [ __ ] his um when you uh text him, his you know the little image that shows up when you go phone, it's a phone with a [ __ ] red line through it.

>> Yeah.

>> What does that mean? Like

>> was not interested in phones, man. Like

he decided not to have a phone for a long time because he realized it was negative for his mental health >> and he wanted to lose a bunch of weight, but he did it naturally. He really did.

He did it just through hard work and discipline and just, you know, Have you seen the images of him now?

>> No, >> bro. There's uh him on stage with uh

>> bro. There's uh him on stage with uh Alexander Vulcganowski and he doesn't even look like the same guy. He's lost

200 plus pounds.

>> Oh, nice.

>> He looks [ __ ] great. I mean, it's amazing.

>> One of the things that's tough when it comes to like the assertation that it's more a willpower thing than anything. In

many cases, I do think it is. There are

a lot of people with unhealthy behaviors and psychological like tendencies to just be, you know, it's easier to be lazy than not and just, you know, >> it's also the food addiction because you have to eat.

>> But there are some people who just if you ultimately have a genetically higher baseline uh perpetual level of appetite

signaling, it's kind of hard to tell that person like just [ __ ] you know, wrench it out, bro. Like you got this.

And it's like I know a lot of people in the fitness industry. Look how much weight he's lost. Isn't it incredible?

>> Yeah. It's great,

>> dude. He looks [ __ ] great. It's

really amazing.

>> No, especially impressive for individuals who are that obese to make that big of a change. It's like it's the hardest to make that first step and get that big of a weight cut.

>> Yeah. And then it's momentum after that.

I watched an incredible video yesterday.

One of the most motivational videos I've ever seen. Um I'll send it to you,

ever seen. Um I'll send it to you, Jamie. is this kid and this guy is he's

Jamie. is this kid and this guy is he's uh out of shape. He's he's got high body fat and the video is him saying that he

wants to work out like David Gogggins for 100 days. He doesn't work out at all >> and he goes from >> um I'll send it to you Jimmy. He goes

from being this guy who's like completely out of shape to at the end of the video he does a [ __ ] Iron Man.

You found it? Yeah. So, this is the guy.

So, in the beginning, in the beginning, he's like kind of fat and like that's what he looks like and you know, he's like motivated by Gogggins. So, the

first day he runs he gets up at 5:30 in the morning and he runs 13 miles the first day. I mean, he's never he doesn't

first day. I mean, he's never he doesn't run at all. He doesn't work out at all.

He eats junk food. He's running running past McDonald's and [ __ ] He's all fat.

By the end of it, he's doing an ultra well, he does an ultramarathon halfway into it and then by the end of it, he does an iron man >> and now he regularly runs 100 mile races.

>> He got down to 140 lbs. He's shredded

now. It's really, really impressive.

>> That's awesome >> because it's just all discipline. Look

at the difference.

>> 145, 9% body fat. He started out at 184, 27% body fat. And look, he's all lean now and healthy. And he he's running 100 mile races now. It's really amazing

because he just did it with sheer willpower and documented the whole thing. He's in agony. His ankle's all

thing. He's in agony. His ankle's all [ __ ] up from running. So, he swims and he swims in the pool and then he decides to swim with weights on. He like really becomes obsessed.

>> Have you seen the guy who fasted for a year straight?

>> Yes. That's an old story, right?

>> Yeah. But I think that's still the record for like longest period of not eating and just like adhering to a diet.

and he got vitamin IS and the guy who did that what's interesting is he also lost skin so his skin shrank along with his body which I thought was fascinating.

>> Yeah. I mean I would imagine that to some extent there's some elasticity depending on how long you've been fat and also like I don't know maybe just the tissue itself there is some level of

>> 382 days. I'm sure your body's fending for energy from anywhere it can find it if there's some way to I don't know.

>> I think the interesting thing is he didn't come around come out of it looking like a lot of these people do where they have to get all their skin removed >> you know.

>> I mean I feel like there's got to be loose skin to some extent. Does have a shirtless >> I don't know there's I don't know if there's a shirt but that was part of the narrative that his his skin actually shrank along with his body because he

wasn't eating at all.

>> I want to see that.

>> Does that make sense? I mean, I was trying to play along for a sec, but now I'm like, if there's not [laughter] a pick, I don't know, dude.

>> Well, it was also it's 1960 whatever it was.

>> Sounds like a interesting uh tail that might have passed through the grapevine.

>> Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that though.

>> No, >> that sounds crazy. And then once you start eating again, how do you just keep the [ __ ] floodgates from >> That's the interesting thing is some people psychologically it's easier to adhere to something when they're full

bore and then like I know a lot of people who they'll do commit to a competition cuz they know I'm accountable to step on stage and I don't want to look like [ __ ] when I'm on stage and they do it. They get a bunch of

photos done and then after they go off the rails and they're like right back to where they started within, you know, a month or two.

>> That happens to a lot of fighters. uh

they get done with uh fighting and then they get really fat.

>> It's really common.

>> It's really common because they also develop real eating disorders because you're cutting weight all the time and >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for some of them

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for some of them it's like you're basically like doing bodybuilder [ __ ] >> essentially.

>> Well, Patty Pimpblelet's the best example of a current active fighter.

>> That guy's crazy, dude.

>> He gets so big, >> dude. His moon face is like the best in

>> dude. His moon face is like the best in the league, probably. [laughter]

So here it says 3 382 days from June uh 14th, 1965 through uh June 30th of 1966.

He consumed only vitamins, electrolytes, and unspecified amount of yeast, a source of essential amino acids, and zero calorie beverages such as tea, coffee, and sparkling water. Although he

occasionally added milk and/or sugar to the beverages, especially during the final weeks of the fast. Um, Barbie

began his treatment in the hospital, but for most of the 382 days he lived at home. Okay, it says stool samples were

home. Okay, it says stool samples were not taken, but he reportedly went up to 48 days between stools.

>> Wow.

>> Which sounds crazy, but it's like what's they're going to >> Yeah. What would be coming out? His

>> Yeah. What would be coming out? His

starting weight was 456, >> and he the fast officially stopped July 6, 1966. He reached his goal weight of

6, 1966. He reached his goal weight of 180 pounds. Wow. Yeah, that's nuts.

180 pounds. Wow. Yeah, that's nuts.

>> The next 10 days, doctors placed him on a diet of salt and then sugar in preparation for solid food. Though, some

sources record the fast being 392 days instead of 382.

Wow. Now, one of the things that's tough is it's like even though maybe that case study exists and there's people who just brute force willpower their way through it, >> some of those people otherwise might

have genetically been able to tolerate, you know, the hunger signaling better than somebody else who literally cannot focus on work or anything when they're >> that hungry. And it almost sometimes

doesn't even come down to the diet quality as much as somebody might tell them, >> "Yeah, it does." It it does to some extent, but and certainly getting rid of the shitty processed foods and getting on a good exercise regimen and doing all

the things to set yourself up in the best position will probably take care of most people. But there are some

most people. But there are some individuals who just like at baseline.

Even on the inverse side, I know a lot of people who simply aren't hungry and they have to force feed themselves to gain muscle because they're just perpetually shredded and they have like the opposite problem because their hung

hunger signaling is so low. So, it's

like people look at them as an example in the fitness industry of like, oh, this guy is the best discipline. He's

like so shredded all the time. And in

reality, that guy's like, I hate food.

That's so weird. There's one guy in particular, his name's a David Le, and he's like, I don't know, like a teenage Well, he's like in his 20s now, but teenagers look up to him as kind of like

a fitness industry icon of aesthetics.

And he's perpetually had a shredded six-pack. He's pretty jacked. He's tall.

six-pack. He's pretty jacked. He's tall.

He's handsome. And he literally says on camera, "I hate eating." And he's like serious about it. He's like, "I can't stand having to eat meals."

>> What?

>> Yeah.

>> Oh my god.

>> Like it's not even just like to be a bodybuilder. Like he's just like I don't

bodybuilder. Like he's just like I don't know.

>> What is he eating? How is that possible?

>> Good high quality food.

>> Best picture I can find. I can't tell.

>> You can't tell.

>> It looks >> Yeah, it looks like he's got some fat there. Yeah, it looks like he's got a

there. Yeah, it looks like he's got a bunch of extra skin there. I mean, it's just like, >> how could he not?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. How could he not? Find a picture of that other guy. Who's the guy that they call the most shredded guy alive?

There's >> Oh, helmet shrubble.

>> Yes, that guy.

>> That guy is crazy.

>> Yeah. Find that guy. That's ridiculous.

>> What is it?

>> It's uh H E L M U T. It's been a while since I've looked at this guy.

>> And then S t >> and uh >> did it come up?

>> Helmet shredded is coming up. That guy

helmet Strbel.

>> Is this him? Yeah. Oh, Jesus. That That

is insane.

>> Yeah.

>> I mean, that guy's physique is the man with 0% body fat. That's hilarious. Uh,

that's not possible, folks.

>> You want to see even more shredded?

>> Is that really possible that he's got more? There's someone more shredded than

more? There's someone more shredded than that?

>> Type in Andreas Munzer.

>> Oh, I've seen that guy. But what is this guy's body fat?

>> It's not zero. Zero is not possible.

What is that? Six. Uh

uh five five or six maybe. No. No. That

would be like stage super stage ready beyond most bodybuilders even at their the best of the best in terms of conditioning. So, I don't know, maybe

conditioning. So, I don't know, maybe like six, seven. It's kind of tough though, dude, cuz it's like some of these guys, they have like >> Oh, Jesus Christ. Go back to that picture. That's nuts.

picture. That's nuts.

>> That's like aggressive filtering and sharpening to look >> whatever.

whatever it is, that's his real body.

That's insane.

>> Yeah, >> even I mean it's obviously like the the best possible lighting for that effect.

>> There's distribution of fat and water that some people it's just looks more uh shredded than another person who might otherwise store any excess fat on

like their ass or like their love handles or like whatever. for a guy like that. Not only is he diced and like

that. Not only is he diced and like obviously he's he's just diced, but he has like a dry look to the skin that enhances the kind of perceived leanness.

>> And it's like uh I forgot what it is.

It's not dick skin lean. I forgot what the >> dick [laughter] skin lean.

>> I forget what the terminology is, but it's like uh it's like white guy something. And it's just like if you're

something. And it's just like if you're certain white physiques are known to look more like you're almost so pale and dry that it like enhances the perceived leanness if that makes like any sense whatsoever.

>> Well, that's the weirdest thing about bodybuilding, right? You have to be

bodybuilding, right? You have to be super dehydrated to look great and you're almost dead.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And then you have to, you know, go chocolate body and stuff.

[laughter] It's not ideal.

>> But those guys, they they're they're like they black out sometimes backstage, don't they?

>> YEAH. I KNOW.

>> YEAH, IT'S CRAZY.

>> Which guy is that?

>> That's helmet.

>> 4% body fat.

>> I might be% I might be totally butchering his name, by the way. So, if

I'm >> I hope, >> bro.

>> Helmet. I hope I'm saying it right.

>> I would never wear a shirt.

>> Why would I wear a shirt?

>> You would not.

>> He's 47.

>> Wow.

>> In this article, too, which is probably like 5 to 10 years old.

>> What does he look like now? I wonder if he keeps it up because I mean I would be so hungry. [laughter]

so hungry. [laughter] >> Yeah. I I

>> Yeah. I I >> Unless you're on a GLP.

>> Oh, this is him.

>> This is him now. Wow, that's crazy.

>> No, that's not that's got to be >> the same photo. Someone else was >> Oh, somebody else put it up there.

>> I think he has an IG. It doesn't seem like >> That's one of the weird things when you're such an OG of the industry that you just have like weird residual fan pages and you don't even know if it's the guy or not.

>> What's that old guy? He was bald the old days. He had like the hair on the side.

days. He had like the hair on the side.

>> Scooby, >> was that his name?

>> I don't know. Maybe

>> white guy. Uh he was like famous shredded guy back in the early days >> of bodybuilding. He was not big.

>> He was thin, but he was like super [ __ ] ripped. God, I can't remember his name.

>> Was he uh >> but he had like the hair on the side like weird like old man bald. You know

what? Didn't have a full shaved head.

>> Old man bald.

>> Yeah, he looked like like the like when people went bald in the 50s and they didn't shave the side of their head.

>> Yeah. [ __ ] I I I'm sure if I saw it, I would know who you're talking.

>> He was famous for teaching. You got him.

>> I feel like you have enough.

>> What's his name?

>> I don't get a name yet. Is this him?

>> No. No, that's not him. That's It's

older.

>> I bet you from a long time ago. [ __ ] >> Who's the uh What's your preferred AI search tool? Use that and type in what

search tool? Use that and type in what you just said.

>> Yeah. Put that into perplexity.

>> Old man bald OG fitness influencer.

>> You have to give me a better search for a time period. Like 90s 2000. Yeah.

Yeah. 90s.

>> Yeah. 90s.

>> 90s.

>> Oh god, his name is at the tip of my tongue. Oh, this is driving me crazy.

tongue. Oh, this is driving me crazy.

>> Uh, super shredded.

>> Yeah, he would teach people how to be shredded. He had like this protocol for

shredded. He had like this protocol for how to lose weight, but his whole thing was being shredded. He wasn't that big.

I mean, he was, you know, fit, but not not like, you know, bodybuilder jacked.

>> And he was Caucasian.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> It's telling me Billy Blanks, but >> No, no, no, no, no. White guy. Um, [ __ ] I was going to say Athleen X, but there's no way that's who you're talking about. She's got great hair.

about. She's got great hair.

>> It's a long time ago. No, Athleen X is got wonderful hair.

>> Tony Little.

>> It's not right either.

>> Speaking of hair, there's that new thing that is uh the study out of UCLA where they're going to be able to grow hair back.

>> Yeah.

>> Isn't that wild? Are you pumped?

[laughter] You don't believe it or >> No, dude. It's like every week it's some new thing like rodent regrrew hair after being shaved bald using UCLA mediated broccoli extract or whatever the [ __ ]

[laughter] and it's like now every Reddit scientist is dumping [ __ ] broccoli juice on their head or whatever. It's just like never really

whatever. It's just like never really pans out ultimately and it's pretty shocking. I think I even mentioned this

shocking. I think I even mentioned this at one point that we have all these, you know, refined AI tools and drugs and some of the most developed and refined uh side nearly side effect free drugs

for some things that are pretty significant, you know, uh roots of disease, but like hair loss, like no one has a clue, >> right, >> how to fix it without size.

>> Hair loss and dick size, two big ones.

>> We know to max out your genetic capacity for dick size, though. Well, the the nuttiest thing that I've been paying attention to lately is so many guys that are getting their legs broken to get taller.

>> I got an update on that guy if you wanted to.

>> Oh, the Sasquatch guy. Yeah. How's he

doing?

>> Well, uh I mean he's walking, but it's like not perfect, >> but it's been a few years, right?

>> Yeah. But he's also like the most extreme edge case example of it's almost if it if it was unfair to use a guy as a reference point, it's like this is the

heaviest, tallest example. So it's like if anyone >> he was 6 feet when he started and he got to 66 and he was not walking like a year later.

>> Yeah. So he

>> he crutches.

>> He said uh let's see. Um I could send this to you if you want to put it up on the screen where I could just show you here.

>> Yeah. Just text it to me.

>> What does he is he Okay.

>> I mean he got sued by the company that did his surgery.

>> He got sued?

>> Yeah.

>> Why did he get sued? because he was talking about all like the mishaps that happened when he got because it's kind of like there are good clinics and bad clinics in terms of quality and he kind

of was I guess too forthcoming about like I did a podcast with them and they didn't like it.

>> They're suing him.

>> Yeah, >> literally.

>> Well, they they did sue him. Yeah.

>> How can you sue someone for telling the truth about a procedure that didn't work out so great?

>> I mean, great question.

That's what I said.

>> How could you win? Maybe you could sue someone.

>> Maybe it's just like bury them in fees or something. I don't know.

or something. I don't know.

>> Yeah, probably.

>> Um, all right. Check. See if this came through. Hopefully my LTE is good.

through. Hopefully my LTE is good.

>> Nope, not yet.

>> You can air drop it to my computer if it pops up. Going that way.

pops up. Going that way.

>> Yeah, there you go.

>> All right.

>> So, he's still [ __ ] >> Yeah. One sec.

>> Yeah. One sec.

>> God damn, man.

Yeah, it's uh I was watching this guy uh yesterday on Instagram. This uh fairly thin kid. He wasn't wasn't big, but he

thin kid. He wasn't wasn't big, but he he gained 5 in.

>> You know, he was like 5'5. Now he's 5'10 and real happy with it. But I was like, Jesus Christ. And a year later again in

Jesus Christ. And a year later again in crutches. One year later, took him a

crutches. One year later, took him a year and a half before he could walk normally.

>> Yeah. I mean, some people that's still worth it to not have to Yeah, >> I guess. Yeah. I mean, if you're 5 feet tall and then all a sudden you're 5'7", I guess.

>> Here, see if it did it come through for you.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to figure out which what to play.

>> I air dropped it.

>> Oh, I got it.

>> I got I got on the screen.

>> Oh, nice.

>> Okay. So, so this is 2023. Oh, wow. He

did it way back then.

>> Yeah.

>> Oh my god. Look how skinny his legs are.

That's crazy how skinny his legs were.

>> To have that much mass up top. That's

crazy.

>> Yeah.

>> That's probably the problem, right?

>> Well, it definitely is. uh the like I said the most extreme of circumstances to impose for what was seemingly a poor quality clinic and then also trying to

go from a height that's objectively tall to a height that's objectively extremely tall with the most heavy guy that's probably ever done the procedure you would think.

>> Yeah. So he's 300 lb >> way I think he was way more than that.

He would say like, "Hey man, if you're going to do this, lose upper body weight and then gain it back so you can give your legs a chance to grow." Oh my god, that's so crazy. It just it makes me freak out because I'm getting anxiety.

They're just going to snap and he's going to fall over.

>> Yeah, there definitely is something a little bit unnatural about watching even like the strikes on the ground. It makes

you feel like something's just going to like >> snap.

>> Yeah. But to his credit, I mean, like the guy literally couldn't even walk before and he's >> he's optimistic about it still and he thinks he's going to make a full recovery. So

recovery. So >> there is now November 2025. So that's

two years later. Two years later he can walk.

>> What if he has to run from a fire?

>> You know what I mean?

>> Yeah, he's [ __ ] for sure.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, also the mechanics like your body's used to moving legs that are 6 in shorter and now like the knee has different pressure and >> you know, it's got to be really [ __ ]

strange. He said, uh, let's see. Bones

strange. He said, uh, let's see. Bones

are mostly healed, just have a lot of weakness. As leg strengthen, the pain

weakness. As leg strengthen, the pain decreases and the spasms. >> Also, he's got to be on the sauce, too, right?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. So, even that's not helping.

>> Uh, I mean, if anything, it would be it would help in some of the recovery for Bone, but it would also keep him yolked and like more pressure on it, too. So,

like maybe it's a >> Yeah, it's a bit of a double-edged sword there.

He says, "Uh, major hurdles cleared, infection, knee tendonopathy. We'll

probably walk normal within a couple months. I can hop, but will need to

months. I can hop, but will need to strengthen much more in order to really jump, jog, and run. Planning to have a US doctor fully fix any remaining issues, but for now, legs are good."

>> Where'd he get his his surgery done?

>> It was uh I did a podcast with him um last year and I think it was Thailand Clinic where it's like a >> boy, he did a bargain.

>> He got a bargain. Did he do a group on >> it? It definitely wasn't the uh best

>> it? It definitely wasn't the uh best choice.

>> He's 9 years post surgery.

>> N They were doing this 9 years ago.

>> So this guy, as far as I know, he is a bit of a unique case in that he was actually correcting an asymmetry. So he

had >> I'm almost positive, I don't want to misspeak. I'm sure he'll correct it if

misspeak. I'm sure he'll correct it if he sees this, but I'm pretty sure he had one leg was like unusually asymmetrically shorter than the other one and then he was kind of evening it

out to what would otherwise be his, you know, like genetic symmetrical match.

>> Oh, interesting.

>> So, there's different applications to which people do this and it's not always just like pure vanity. I want to get, you know, really tall. It's sometimes

like to correct a functional like asymmetry.

>> Um it's just, you know, a lot of people you hear about the cases of I want to get really tall for superficial reasons kind of.

>> It's just a matter of time before they're just genetically engineering everybody to look like Thor, you know?

It's just a matter of time.

>> I think there's a lot of people that don't want this to work though, too, because it's like if it's almost too easy or like, you know, doable. It's

just like some people I say a lot of people unreasonably [ __ ] on these people and it's just like you know just take the content for what it is you know.

>> Yeah. No, that's true. But I but I'm saying about with the genetic engineering there's a lot of people that are going to not want that to work either. But tough [ __ ] Like you're not

either. But tough [ __ ] Like you're not going to hold back science because you don't like the fact that >> if like especially if someone has poor genetics and they just look gross and their whole life they've looked gross and then all a sudden something comes

along it's like and now you're a [ __ ] supermodel and you're 6'6 and like >> Mike it's you. What the [ __ ] happened? I

went to this clinic in Turkey and look what they did.

>> Yeah, that was like you were asking about what uh >> we talk about this before bone smashing.

>> What? I just saw a video about this then thought it was fake but this seems like a place to find out if it's real.

>> Oh yeah. So people are like bammer.

>> Yeah.

>> Whatever they can do.

>> I'm pretty sure this is not like an it's like a clickbay [snorts] thing among the people that do this stuff.

>> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. He's

hitting himself with a [ __ ] hammer.

>> So a kid was just using like a trophy just banging his face all day. He's like

I've been doing this for years. So they

like think that they can uh induce acute like bone remodeling in the area to kind of like enhance like I don't know zygoma development or what have you and get

better you know whatever asymmetry or deficiency they deem to have cosmetically corrected. Um and some of

cosmetically corrected. Um and some of them they're just punching their face essentially before they go out at night time to get like a temporary pump in their cheeks. [laughter]

their cheeks. [laughter] So like think about back in the day when you went to the club and you're like I want to hit push-ups first.

>> Yeah. [laughter]

>> Oh my god.

>> So it's like you're you're laughing and they're probably like it's the same thing.

>> You're [ __ ] punching your cheekbones to get them stick out more. Oh god, it's so dumb. [laughter]

so dumb. [laughter] >> There's so much out there, man.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh listen, man. This is great.

Congratulations on this. So for

everybody that wants to buy it, Gorilla Mind. Uh I've been drinking it for two

Mind. Uh I've been drinking it for two hours now. Three almost. It's great.

hours now. Three almost. It's great.

>> Works.

>> No, thank you. I feel like I haven't had a cup of coffee the entire podcast.

That's That's unusual for me. Um but it tastes good, too. What How many flavors you got?

>> A lot, man. 15 plus.

>> We got to narrow it down to the he to the best ones, though, to really dial in the catalog. But

the catalog. But >> if somebody wants to buy this, order it.

Where's it at?

>> Uh gorillamind.com.

We're in uh GNC's, vitamin shops across the country. We're going to be in Circle

the country. We're going to be in Circle K soon and soon to be more spots hopefully.

>> Congratulations on that. And uh for everything else that you do, gorillamind.com.

gorillamind.com.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And uh mehealth.com if you want to get preventative medicine, expert oversight when it comes to diagnostics optimization etc. >> All right, brother. Well, it's always good to hang out with you. Very fun.

>> Thanks for having me, man.

>> My pleasure. My pleasure. And again,

congratulations. This is legit. Thank

you. I'm going to buy it. All right.

Bye, everybody. See you.

[music] >> [music]