Meet the Oxford Student Who Built Three Multimillion-Dollar Brands by 25 (ft. Grace Beverley)

It definitely wasn't always easy at all.

While still a student at Oxford, Grace Beverly generated over a million dollars in digital product sales to pay off her tuition. And since then, she's built

tuition. And since then, she's built multiple sevenfigure brands and become one of the UK's leading young entrepreneurs.

>> Hi, I'm Grace Beverly and welcome to the Burnouts.

>> Grace, welcome to the Burnouts.

>> Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

me. I'm so excited to be here.

>> I want to play a little bit of of rapid fire. So, I want to ask you just a

fire. So, I want to ask you just a couple questions. Favorite interview

couple questions. Favorite interview question to ask people.

>> So, I ask everyone at the end of my podcast, what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given? And I feel like I've been given some of my best advice purely from that question.

>> Can I ask you what's the best piece of advice you've ever been given?

>> Shouldn't have done this to myself.

Um, I actually had an episode which I thought was really helpful which I want to bring up today because I think that it will be perfect for your audience.

But it was with Vanessa King Ai who is a managing director at Google and used to be chief business officer um at Conde Nast and Vogue and you know incredibly impressive woman and she said that one of the best things you can do for career

progression um is to manage fully the things that no one else wants to do and I think that sounds pretty self-explanatory until you think about it in detail and you think about the fact that the majority of the time

people think in order to get the promotion or to get noticed I need to work on the big shiny project. I need to be at this event. I need to be running this specific big thing that I don't know it might be a magazine does or it

might be a business does. I need to be running this big project. Every single

manager is delegating a load of things and then there's usually like this sludge at the bottom that there's 20% that no one wants to do. If you can manage that really well, that will get you noticed far quicker than all of these big shiny projects that everyone

wants to be on because everyone's on those projects and everyone is there and they're hustling to make that work. So,

you're much less likely to be noticed.

She got one of her biggest promotions at GQ and the reason why she even ended up kind of climbing to where she did, she wasn't even a publisher at this stage and everyone was fighting for the associate publisher role and there was

something that her boss was working on and worked on every year and it was a pet project of his and no one liked it cuz it wasn't profitable and it was it took a lot of work and all of this and she just said she said rather than all of these other things that everyone's

fighting to be put on, she was like I would like to manage this project. She

was like I would like to manage it end to end. I don't need any more resources.

to end. I don't need any more resources.

I need a title for it. I need to be publisher for the project, but I'm going to do everything with zero resources.

All of this, she managed to make that section of the magazine profitable.

Everyone hated it. Like people were running away from it years before that.

And so I think it's there are different examples in every workplace, but stop looking for the big shiny thing. Look

for the thing that is the pain point for your manager. Work on that and manage

your manager. Work on that and manage that well instead. And get really good at managing those types of things. I

think developing a project management and organizational skill um as an individual, as an employee is one of the most important things you can do because it translates to pretty much every

single job role. I wanted to also ask about relationships. How does that fit

about relationships. How does that fit into your life? You and your husband are adorable. I love watching your content

adorable. I love watching your content and I'm really curious, especially as an ambitious young woman, it's notoriously extremely hard to find a loving, committed partner. So, what has that

committed partner. So, what has that experience been like for you and what advice do you have for other young women?

>> It definitely wasn't always easy at all.

I think that when you're someone who is a doer and you're out there like hustling and doing all these different things and being busy and all of that, I think that you don't always attract the

right people, which is strange cuz you think it would just put some people off um and they would just run a mile because they don't want someone that headstrong or quotequote bossy, whatever they want to call you. A lot of the time it can attract people who want to bring

you down a peg and who want to, you know, make you a little bit more realistic. And I've seen so many amazing

realistic. And I've seen so many amazing women get into relationships. Their

spark is lost a little bit purely because their partner wants to humble them. And that is categorically not what

them. And that is categorically not what you need from a relationship. You need

self-awareness. You need to be realistic. And you need for your partner

realistic. And you need for your partner to be able to tell you to like be quiet for a second. I think that a lot of women get into those relationships because they feel like they can manage that like they manage everything else.

So, I think that's, you know, I I definitely experienced that in the past.

I think when I got into my relationship with my husband, um I was in a place where I really wasn't interested in getting into a relationship. How did you

guys meet? So, we we met probably about

guys meet? So, we we met probably about 3 and a half years ago now. Um, we met on rhea which is I know which I would not suggest as a place to meet a husband at all. I would say the large majority

at all. I would say the large majority of people on there want a very specific thing and that very specific thing is to climb like various different ranks of the social ladder. Um, and I don't Yeah,

not what I'm after. Um, but I remember I was on there and I I downloaded it after a breakup and I was pretty fresh out of a breakup and I downloaded it and he was on there and um, he didn't have many

photos of himself. classic like artsy man. Um, and so I was just I but I the

man. Um, and so I was just I but I the one once I'd seen I'd been like, "Yeah."

And I I really loved his work. So I was like, "Yeah, great. Sounds like an interesting person." But he lived in New

interesting person." But he lived in New York at the time. Um, and he was in London probably a week a month for work.

Twice he said, you know, I'm in London.

Want to grab a drink? And I was fresh out of Ray Cover. I was just like, yeah, yeah, maybe. And then, you know, it

yeah, maybe. And then, you know, it wouldn't happen. And then we went on our

wouldn't happen. And then we went on our first date in kind of the July. And then

he wasn't back in London until about 2 months later. That's when we went on our

months later. That's when we went on our second date. And from that second date,

second date. And from that second date, I was like, "Yeah, I will fall in love with this man." Um, and um, he ended up moving back to London a few months later. He's originally from well,

later. He's originally from well, outside of London, but um, he is from the UK. But I think what made this

the UK. But I think what made this relationship different as someone who has always really wanted that love and like really aspired to have I don't know, not necessarily to get married,

but like I don't have a super close family. I don't, you know, I always

family. I don't, you know, I always looked to that as a way to build that.

And so I always really wanted it. I

wanted it out. I wasn't the type of person who only wanted my work. I was

really wanting someone to build that with. But I think because I was at a

with. But I think because I was at a stage where I didn't necessarily want that or would just couldn't be bothered.

Um I my standards were a lot higher. And

I think I was kind of very nononsense and very like I'm unbothered. I'm was

moving into an apartment by myself in a gorgeous like this beautiful penthouse flat. I was like, I have no interest in

flat. I was like, I have no interest in like I was like, I'm going to live my hot single girl life in central London.

Like, this is going to be great. And so,

my standards were just really high in terms of like what I wanted, what I would accept, what I was looking for.

And no one was getting through that barrier. And I think that allowed me to

barrier. And I think that allowed me to meet someone that actually could get through that barrier and never wanted to take me down a peg, like always wanted to really sing my praises and still be

able to be humble together and like understand, you know, like think each other like amazing, but not need to, you know, not need to bring each other down.

Um, and yeah, he's just I mean, he's he's an incredible person and he's a really really incredible husband and has been an incredible partner since the very beginning. Um, but I think it's,

very beginning. Um, but I think it's, you know, a lot of us lover girls can put ourselves in the position where we want to have a partner and you then compromise on certain things because

having a partner seems more important than not having a partner. And I've

definitely been there one too many times. Um, and it took me being out of

times. Um, and it took me being out of that position to actually find someone who wasn't going to take advantage of that.

>> And I was going to say like I saw your news on social media today. I'm I'm so sorry. And I I wanted to ask kind of

sorry. And I I wanted to ask kind of like how you view family and the role of partnership within your work life. Like

how is that something that you think that you're able to balance? I think

there's so many stereotypes of like whether women are able to work effectively and also have a kid. All of

that. I mean that's questions investors even asked us and like we're 23 right now is well what happens when you guys have a kid. What would you say to to questions like that and how have you viewed that in your life?

>> First of all, they're technically illegal in the UK those questions. So,

um, and and in all employment situations, like they shouldn't be being asked in any interviews or anything, but it is unfortunately not always that

simple. I mean, I guess for context for

simple. I mean, I guess for context for anyone listening who hasn't like doesn't follow my Instagram or whatever it might

be, um, me and my husband were pregnant.

Um, and we lost the baby a few weeks ago and it was right before I was opening a new store in London and it was a hugely busy time and it was just one of those moments where I was like, "God, being a

business owner gives you zero ability to like go through anything out because you're always going through [ __ ] with your business. like you the propensity

your business. like you the propensity to deal with things outside of that is so low because they always come at the same time and then other things are flying and it was just one of those things where like I had to have an operation and try and make sure that I could actually be there and obviously

was going through a huge amount of grief at the time but I think you know the way I see I I would be lying if I said that I

didn't worry about saying anything purely because investors would know that that was on the horizon. for me. Um,

like by saying that I'd had a miscarriage essentially, I'm saying we wanted a baby and we were we were going to have a baby. And

I think I'd be really naive to say that I don't think that's going to affect things for me in the future. And I think that's [ __ ] terrible. Like, I really think it is. I have yet to go through a single funding round where in the due

diligence there isn't the really clever question of is anyone on the leadership team going to be on maternity leave in the next year because it's essentially something that they need to know because they're investing in the

leadership team but it is essentially >> and they're trying to ask it about you.

>> Well, it's it's about the leadership team. I'm on the leadership team.

team. I'm on the leadership team.

>> So, and that's standard in documents like that's that's standard. So, I don't know. It's really complex. Um, and I,

know. It's really complex. Um, and I, you know, I obviously work in four female founded companies obviously. Um,

but I also like and I think it's statistically we know that female founded companies also hire more women and promote more women to leadership positions because they know if I could

do this as a mom, these people could do this as a mom. And if they can't, then we probably don't have the right infrastructure in place rather than the other way round.

Um, and you know, Tala has the most incredible CEO who's a woman. Um, and

she has two kids and you know, 87% of our leadership positions are held by women. Um, and so many people in the

women. Um, and so many people in the office have families. And I think that, you know, I I don't know. I'm going to keep

like I hope that happens for us and I hope it happens for us. You know, I hope I don't have to go through that again.

But I am going to I guess keep acting as if it's not going to affect my work um until someone tries to tell me otherwise

and then I guess I'll deal with that situation then. Um probably

situation then. Um probably not very enthusiastically, but like I think that I don't know. I think it's I think it's really hard and I think it's [ __ ] that even when I was talking about

thinking about talking about my grief on social media I was immediately like oh you know this could be detrimental to the business which is just [ __ ] insane cuz I understand an investor being like

oh what if you're distracted with your other business people talk about Elon Musk about that all the time investors are worried about that with Tesla that makes sense the asking about you know if you're going to be distracted if you have a kid to me that really upsets me because

>> first of all the fact that you is such a successful woman who's had all these companies, who's had incredible success, who's shown that you can return value for investors. The fact that you are

for investors. The fact that you are scared to put something out on social media with it is crazy and terrifying for someone who's not in that position.

And I think that also because of the body clock, but like >> it means that, >> okay, we already know things are so weighted against female entrepreneurs.

This also kind of means that if they're not going to be backed once they have children, then they probably need to be only starting companies in their 20s, which is [ __ ] insane.

>> You know what would fix this is if we had equal paternity and maternity.

>> Exactly. Exactly. And so it's also like I don't know. Are you distracted, Mr. Investor, by your kids? Like

>> Exactly.

>> I am unaware where the like difference seems to be here. And of course it is there because still statistically women are taking on the lion's share of the housework, of the caregiving, of all of this. Um, and that's something that I'm

this. Um, and that's something that I'm very vocal about as well because it all feeds into it. But it's just, yeah, I have no doubt as well that like things that would affect me like if I'm, as you

say, if I'm worried about this, imagine >> all of these other people who, you know, all the women who don't necessarily have a track record of starting businesses, but have done incredible work in other

jobs or have a [ __ ] fantastic idea.

And people look at them and instantly are like, "Well, >> she looks like she's of childbearing age." And it's like it it's it there is

age." And it's like it it's it there is so far to go when it comes to entrepreneurship >> and

women getting backing. Um, and not just backing, but equality in terms of the way we we view it all. Like the way we view the successes of female

entrepreneurs, the standards we hold women to. Like I have seen nothing

women to. Like I have seen nothing equivalent to the standards we hold female entrepreneurs to online. Nothing.

Like I can I can give you a list of 10 female entrepreneurs who are disgraced never to show their name again. Some

fine Elizabeth Holmes, she's in jail.

like, you know, but like other ones who it's literally like >> we have people who've and I'm not going to name names cuz I don't want to be sued, but like we've had men who've

raised money fresh out of jail or fresh out of like embezzling with another company or promising things or inflating numbers or whatever it might be. And we

don't look at all female entre we don't look at all male entrepreneurs and go like, "Oh, well, it could be another situation like that." It's just like, you know, I put a Tik Tok up a few weeks ago that was talking about the standards

we hold female entrepreneurs to online because I'd seen um two influencers in the UK. They'd released a business and

the UK. They'd released a business and the business was a higher price point.

So, they were selling like robes probably like £110, so maybe like um I don't know close to like I don't know

£160, $170. um a a candle for £50, like

£160, $170. um a a candle for £50, like some slippers for £80, all of this. But

if you looked at the way the products were done, like the candle was done in a custom mold, like the robe was 100% cotton and like 500 gsm or something like that. And so like they were quality

like that. And so like they were quality products. The out like the outrage was

products. The out like the outrage was insane. Like the whole of Tik Tok would,

insane. Like the whole of Tik Tok would, you know, like going around like canceling these people and all of this.

And it was like, why when women do things does it become a moral issue?

Because there's no one here saying you have to buy something at all. Like Joe

Malone has candles for the Dip Teique has candles for the same price. Like all

of this, we hate when we see female ownership. Like that that's it. You

ownership. Like that that's it. You

don't mind when that person does a brand deal for a 200 pound shark mask. Like

you don't mind because you're not seeing the ownership behind that. You mind when you know it's going into their pocket.

And that is an issue because we all do it. Like I found myself looking at like

it. Like I found myself looking at like I don't know hearing something about a woman and being like oh well apparently she's hard to work with. Like you never [ __ ] hear that about men. Like it it is internalized. It's internalized

is internalized. It's internalized misogyny. We all need to fight it.

misogyny. We all need to fight it.

Social media is exacerbating it so badly. I've seen a lot about I think

badly. I've seen a lot about I think it's Chelsea Park who has um Park the um I think in the US and that's not so much in the UK but I've seen a lot about like when people have said the same thing on that and were like why are you selling

out all the time? I'm like, it's immoral, like all of this. And it's like this outrage, like we have to keep it in check because I understand holding people to standards and making sure

things are ethical and moral. Like that

is so important, but we cannot burn women at the stake for every single time they make a decision that you don't agree with. Because running a business

agree with. Because running a business is making a series of decisions over and over, half of them wrong, half of them right, working out which ones are wrong, and moving on to the next one. But it

inherently means that women can't start businesses because if they are never allowed to make a mistake, then they're never able to grow a business because businesses are a series of failures that

you learn from and turn into success.

>> It's like perfection is the enemy of progress and women are perfectionists in a way that men are not.

>> Well, they're demanded to be perfectionists now because we want perfection for people online.

>> When you were at Oxford, you were at university and you very quickly amassed millions of followers. walk us through why did you decide to start posting on social media?

>> So, the timeline really was that I started posting in 2015. So, that was the year before I went to university in my final year of what you'd call high

school. And so, I was trying to get into

school. And so, I was trying to get into a fitness routine and I was just the type of person that would try over and over again to like stick to the gym and wasn't sticking to it. And so, I started to use it as a bit of a diary. Um, and I

didn't put my face on it. I didn't put my name on it. It was very, it was kind of like an anonymous fitness diary. I

wanted to see if I could make some money off it to make it worth spending all weekend making all of these recipes. So,

I took all of the recipes I'd made and I made them into two different ebooks. I

made a sweet ebook. I made a sweet ebook and then I made a savory ebook. And I

sold them both online for £5. Um, so

probably a little bit more than that in dollars, $6 to $7. I made a few hundred off of it. I it was it was nothing life-changing, but as someone who was on

an £18,000 salary, it was pretty I was like, "Wow, I've you know, I've just basically given myself a huge percentage of extra money." That next year I went

to Oxford. I was in my first semester. I

to Oxford. I was in my first semester. I

around Black Friday, I put the ebooks on sale, so I was just like, "Oh, you can get them, I don't know, 20% off." Then

what happened is I went home for the Christmas holidays. probably like the

Christmas holidays. probably like the first or second week or so, I got an email from the burser at the university saying, "You haven't paid your tuition fees, therefore you are not allowed back

on campus until you pay them." And I completely freaked out because I was getting a full student loan from the government. I essentially got to work

government. I essentially got to work and wrote the whole plan that evening um or that evening. I went into the early hours, so I probably finished it at about 4:00 or 5:00 a.m. And I messaged my friend who was a graphic design

student, and she had made my other ebooks look nice. So I said, "If I pay you £50, please can you make these look nice and like sellable?" Cuz I didn't want to sell people something. And so I said, "Can I pay you £50 and can you do

it within the next week?" And she said, "Yes." And then I got online and I'd

"Yes." And then I got online and I'd already had my little Shopify set up with my digital downloads and all of this. And so I just basically added new

this. And so I just basically added new products to that. I remember just that day, that evening, looking at the dashboard and it said that I had I think

it was like 14 and a half thousand pounds and I was like, "Oh my gosh." I

was like, "That is unbelievable." That

was a day's work. That was a day like it hadn't been a huge amount. I had it hadn't cost me anything to produce it other than that £50 and it was way more than I'd ever got from those previous ebooks which were cheaper. But I just

remember looking at it and being like, "Oh my god, I've just printed myself my whole tuition fee." Nearly two years of tuition fees in this one day. Two days

later, I think a,000 people had bought it. And so that was up to around like

it. And so that was up to around like 354,000.

And I continued that ebook business for the next kind of 3 or so years. About

nine months after that, I went into um physical products for the first time. um

and kind of wanted to expand on what that specific customer like what equipment did they need to do these ebooks all of this I definitely struck a gold mine like I was in the right place at the right time you couldn't do that with ebooks anymore there are other

things you can do it with but and so kind of in a quite unique position to be one of the people who was earning from their audience before they were even earning from kind of brand deals and things I know you talked about like you were in the right place at the right

time to do ebooks that blew up for you and then basically launched now what you have is this empire of different businesses What would you say for the girl who's a freshman in college today?

What side hustles would you be doing if you were back there? So, I think digital products are still really strong. I just

don't think they're coming in ebook form. So, I would say things like, well,

form. So, I would say things like, well, there's a lot out there on courses. Um,

but even just small resources, it might be that you design a template that works for something and you sell it on Etsy.

There is a lot of that that and again, it's no marginal cost. So, you're

essentially doing something once and making money from that for however long you're marketing that from. I would

still really look at digital products particularly if you don't have a lot of cash to put into something. I think that you know the barriers to entry for entrepreneurship have massively decreased but they are still there and I

don't think that necessarily most new entrepreneurs need to be going out and immediately raising loads of funding to as I say reinvent the wheel. I would

really look at the things that are low cost to start. Social media is even technically one of those things. Like

the ability to build yourself a following has been hugely democratized over the time and has allowed people to be able to, I guess, springboard off that to sell all sorts of other things,

whether it's with your face or not. I

think people often look for those gold mines and miss a lot of other things that could be really strong because they're just looking for that one quick fix. like drop shipping was that at one

fix. like drop shipping was that at one point like Bitcoin like a number of these different things that are just like the get-richqu stuff totally understand why and I having been lucky

and having been in that time I understand that it's easy to look at that and want to get that I think there are fewer and fewer of those things as technology has become more sophisticated and consumers have become more educated

on different things essentially >> and when did it stop working for you was there a point when you realized okay I struck gold I have mined all the gold I need to move on to something else.

>> My concentration was always around evolving even before it was necessary to evolve. And I think that's been a pretty

evolve. And I think that's been a pretty essential part of my journey. Um, and so I I think that it I probably stopped it before it actually could have stopped

fully. Um, I put a lot of the money that

fully. Um, I put a lot of the money that we'd earned from that business into developing an app version of it so that it was something that was subscriptionbased

um, and was able to be more interactive and work with someone for a lot longer time. So, I did that about 3 years

time. So, I did that about 3 years after, but within that time I was still evolving and still trying so many different things. If you were to break

different things. If you were to break down your revenue streams, how much of it is each business? Like how much of it is social media deals versus podcast stuff? So, I have a salary at Tala. I

stuff? So, I have a salary at Tala. I

take some Shreddy and TPM are very profitable and are run to be very profitable like I don't need. And so the if you were looking at my income, you'd probably look at social media and things

that come along with the personal brand.

So things like speaking events or um consultancy, things along that line probably balances out with Shreddy and TPM, which I specifically run to be profitable businesses that I can withdraw money out of. I have two

businesses then, Tala and uh Retrograde that are both venture capitalbacked fast growth businesses. So they're not

growth businesses. So they're not designed for me to be taking money out of them every year. And the idea is that we're putting as much money into growth as possible. Um and so those would be

as possible. Um and so those would be the least, which is funny cuz I think probably people probably look at Tala um and the size it's reached and automatically like, oh god, you know, you must be seeing so much of that. I

have a salary cuz I have a role there.

Well, that's really interesting because I wanted to better understand what was the reason behind raising venture capital because you raised4.2 million pounds for Tala. Why did you decide to do that?

>> Different businesses need different things and I would absolutely not ever blanket say oh you should go out and raise funding. I think it looks cool and

raise funding. I think it looks cool and exciting and it's an amazing achievement particularly as women. We know that only 2% of venture capital goes to women and that's the highest year ever.

>> You reached out to famously to all the VCs you ended up pitching. What does a cold email from you look like? when I

started raising fatala we were post revenue by 2 and a half years so to even launch the business again because it was capital intensive at that stage I had a significant amount of savings um which

is necessary for a fashion business so I think that you know it is a hard business to get into so being totally honest I don't think I can give a kind of template cold email that would be

appropriate for most people because I think a lot of the time when you're raising for the first time you are raising seed you're raising either when you've made a little bit um or preede when you haven't made anything at all.

So really what I was going out to people was and saying was this is our CAC. This

is how much we've made. This is how profitable we are. Like all of the I was going metrics based. Um and then I was saying and these are our values and these are the values we're going to maintain. We're not going to entertain

maintain. We're not going to entertain any investors that are not aligned with these values because we're going to end up in arguments in a few months time.

Obviously then I've raised since then with Retrograde which is an AI company.

And at that point I guess my track record spoke for a lot of that. So I I want to be transparent in the way that I don't want to kind of say, "Oh, you can come out of university and send this email to people and people are going to

respond in the same way as they did to me because I was in an extremely privileged position to have already made a lot of money, got a lot of customers, proven that I could run businesses." And

then when I raised for retrograde, that was last year, and I was four businesses in.

>> Well, that's why I'm also really curious to understand is you have your podcast, your personal brand, Shreddy Pala. How

do you time manage? And what do you think that the investors thought at any point? Did they were they worried you

point? Did they were they worried you would be distracted?

>> 100%. I've had a lot of conversations with potential prospective investors who have said, "Okay, well, we would we love a founder with your profile, but we wouldn't want them to have any of the

other things." I've had to convince

other things." I've had to convince people to see it in the opposite way round a lot of the time and really position it as a strength because it is a strength and I think it shows the amount I'm juggling outside of Tala for

example I'm juggling just the same amount inside and I have been very active in the businesses at all points I am fiercely organized like have always

been will always be wish I had another setting would love to have a choice but it is I'm hardwired that way when I was at university for example I was doing

full days at the library, 10,000 words a week in my degree. I would wake up and film often back toback like three YouTube videos and I was doing at least three uploads a week. I was posting on

social media every day and I was running the businesses. Um, and so everything

the businesses. Um, and so everything had to be very blocked out and always has been very blocked out. So, it's it is my comfort zone really to have a very jam-packed schedule. I think that I've

jam-packed schedule. I think that I've developed an ability over time to be a fierce prioritizer and a very quick decision maker. You just have to be

decision maker. You just have to be making decisions. Like decision

making decisions. Like decision paralysis is what is going to freeze a business. You have to be moving. You

business. You have to be moving. You

might not be moving in the right direction, but you're only going to learn that if you start moving. So, I

think that's over and over again. That's

been taught to me. So, I've got faster and faster at making decisions. But at

the same time, I have teams. people are still going to look on my social media and be like, "Oh, she's doing this and this and this and this." Every single area you see me do anything I have help

in. Like every single area there are

in. Like every single area there are nearly 70 people at Tala. Um there are about 20 people at Shreddy TPM. There

are, you know, there's a whole team at Retrograde. I have people to help at

Retrograde. I have people to help at home. Like I have a cleaner. I, you

home. Like I have a cleaner. I, you

know, have a PA. I have a personal team to help with my kind of side of social stuff. It's never just me. like it's

stuff. It's never just me. like it's

been about building teams of people who are better than me at what they do so that the capacity of the business can increase and being able to then effectively delegate to them. I 100%

agree. That's been such a huge learning for us when we work on our business of just how important it is to have a team that you can delegate to, that you can lean on. And I I wanted to understand

lean on. And I I wanted to understand also with Retrograde, what was the reason why you decided to start a fourth business? And you started it

business? And you started it venturebacked from the very beginning.

What was the reaction of investors?

>> Investors have been very excited about it and I think for good reason. um to

explain the concept behind it essentially Retrograde is a virtual talent agency. So it's AI powered and

talent agency. So it's AI powered and it's designed to help creators be able to earn what they should be earning. So

the concept behind it and the reason I even got on board because it wasn't my idea in the first place at all. It was

my co-founder Jake's idea and he's built and sold a tech company before. His last

um tech company was in the creator space and he built and sold that within 18 months um for a very impressive sum. and

he kind of came to me knowing that I had been very vocal about the creator space and also spend a lot of time helping creators get to where they need to get to in terms of earnings. Um because I find they get taken advantage of a lot

and I don't like women being taken advantage of any sense. Um this was essential for the industry. Like I see creators every single day who are not earning what they should be or who have I see creators who have amazing agents.

I always want to say that. But I also see creators who have missed out on a 10 grand brand deal because it wasn't responded to in time or they know they're with an agent that's managing 20 other people who isn't going to pri

prioritize their 300 brand deal even though that will make a huge difference to them. I knew it was essential and I

to them. I knew it was essential and I really wanted to be on board. I was not looking for anything new. I spent a lot of time talking back and forth with Jake to make sure that it was the right thing. I felt like the right co-founder

thing. I felt like the right co-founder in terms of everything I know about the industry um and firsthand experience as well. Um, and I wanted to do it with

well. Um, and I wanted to do it with Jake cuz he's a very successful tech founder. I feel like when those

founder. I feel like when those opportunities come along, you make them work. So, I never I think it's easy to

work. So, I never I think it's easy to look at my I guess portfolio of what I do and think, you know, that's that's a lot of things. It must be here, there,

and everywhere. I've never started a

and everywhere. I've never started a business and moved away from it even in any way different in different areas, different departments until that has been ready to be run by someone who is better than me. Never. Ever. Like I've

never just It's not that I see something shiny and I run off to the next thing. I

build something. I hire incredible teams that go in there and that run what they need to run in the different departments. I then still stay um at an

departments. I then still stay um at an approvals level to I'm still involved in all the businesses. Um but it's not that I'm suddenly missing from the office on Thursdays because I'm now spending that

full day at retrograde. I'm also not a day-to-day co-founder in retrograde. So

um Jake is the dayto-day, I'm the week to week. Um, and that was important for

to week. Um, and that was important for me to be able to take the opportunity because I said I just don't have capacity. Um, and in terms of investors,

capacity. Um, and in terms of investors, it's always been around conversations.

Um, I've always underpromised and overd delivered on all of my businesses um, in pretty much all metrics. Um, and so I think trust is a very important thing.

My aim has always been for these businesses to do very well. There's no

point me taking a new business when I have an existing business that's worth a lot of money and just letting that one go. It it's still in my interest for

go. It it's still in my interest for both of them to succeed. I wanted to just thank you for your openness and courage to talk about this stuff online because for young women, there are so few examples of other young women

running businesses and being proud and confident to be able to speak on their accomplishments and not feel like they need to minimize themselves. So, I

wanted to first say thank you for that and thank you for lending like your voice to this podcast. I think this is such an important lesson that I'm so excited for our audience to be able to hear. We honestly could have talked to

hear. We honestly could have talked to you for hours. Like this was such a beautiful conversation. Thank you so

beautiful conversation. Thank you so much. like I wish you the best of luck

much. like I wish you the best of luck with like everything you're doing. You

are such a killer. Like I can't wait for your fifth, sixth, seventh business and you're going to crush all of them very clearly.

>> Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.