Snow & Claus - Windows 11 & Agentic AI

It's time for Windows Weekly. Paul's in

Mckani. He's back in Pennsylvania.

Richard is in I I'm not even trying to pronounce it. Australia, I think is how

pronounce it. Australia, I think is how you say it. And we're gonna talk about well, Windows 11 and Aentic AI. We've

got Pavan Davalori's talk. And Paul will talk a little bit about some of the features to be looking for. Earnings

learnings from Lenovo, HP, and Dell. The

PC business is doing okay. And uh you must see what Nano Banana does with this show. All that and more coming up next

show. All that and more coming up next on Windows Weekly.

>> Podcasts you love >> from people you trust.

>> This is Twil.

>> This is Windows Weekly with Paul Thorad and Richard Campbell. Episode 960.

Recorded Wednesday, November 26th, 2025.

Snow and Claws.

It's time for Windows Weekly, the show we cover the latest from Microsoft.

Hello, winners. Hello, Dozers. Hello,

Paul. Theat in the Roman.

>> No, I'm in Pennsylvania. I can't really Oh, that's right. It's It's uh the holidays. It's more school kill area

holidays. It's more school kill area than I don't know what's in what's that nice Dutch name. Most of the rivers in the US have Indian names but there's >> still the Hudson and the sky kill and

the >> Yeah.

>> Also in uh what is it? Tarabanga

Rangatanga >> Kangada.

>> Kangada Devita baby. It's New Zealand.

baby. It's New Zealand.

>> No, no, it's Australia.

>> Oh, it's Australia. We're in in the Gold Coast just south of Brisbane.

>> Is that a Maui name?

>> No, it's an Aboriginal name.

>> Aboriginal. That's right. Mau in New Zealand. Yeah,

Zealand. Yeah, >> it's New Zealand. And it is 5:00 in the morning and already 30°. It is

>> It's summer time.

>> We rented a beautiful apartment that does not have air conditioning. So, woo.

>> That's why it was so available. So

inexpensive.

>> Yeah. Uh, well, I'm so glad to see y'all. Thank you for joining the show.

y'all. Thank you for joining the show.

>> Happy day before American Thanksgiving. Rich

has already had his, of course.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh Paul's That's why you're in Pennsylvania, right? You want to be in

Pennsylvania, right? You want to be in the land of the free and the home of the brave for the big feast celebrating our subjugation of the natives uh and all of

that. So, congratulations. My friends in

that. So, congratulations. My friends in Mexico wanted to do a Thanksgiving thing with us and I'm like I'm only going to do it if we keep down an indigenous population. So we figure that out.

population. So we figure that out.

>> Good news. We've done it.

>> We'll talk about it.

>> Ask Santa Anna about that one. Yeah. Uh

so >> you got to adhere to the traditions.

It's the whole thing.

>> That's right. Turkey turkey with a side of smallox.

>> Have these fine blankets.

>> Thank you for the corn. We have a gift for you as well.

>> Yeah.

Uh, I'm sorry. I'm being radicalized by uh Ken Burns, the American Revolution and by Howard Zinn's The People's History of the United States. Between

the two of them, >> I am >> We're going to hear some stories.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> So, but we're not here to talk that.

We're here to talk about the fabulous Windows 11.

>> And man, it is all good news, Leo. It's

just straight across the board, >> nothing but. Um, so

>> we covered this story last week. Pavel

Davaluri's uh inadvertent mistake and >> his silliness trying to promote the one Ignite session that he was taking part in.

>> Yeah, >> what a goon.

>> What happened? Is it back again?

>> Well, he did the session. So, uh, since we talked last week, he had the session occurred. Um, I haven't looked at it

occurred. Um, I haven't looked at it actually since I've been home, but um, Richard, as Richard knows, and anyone going to these Microsoft shows, Ignite and Build, especially, one of the nice

things about them is they make most of the sessions and the certainly the keynotes and all that available for re-watching later. And, um,

re-watching later. And, um, >> couple things though. Um, not every session. Um, and this particular year,

session. Um, and this particular year, at this particular show, I should say, it seems to me like many more than usual

sessions were not recorded at all. So,

there's no replay to be had. And then of the ones that I would want to watch, this is rough, but I would say almost 50% of them are not downloadable. I have

to stream them. So,

>> interesting.

>> Yeah. It was like, >> is there any pattern to it? Like,

>> no, not that I could detect. I mean, I'm looking at very specific things, but I, you know, I kind of went I don't know. I

I I did end up downloading several I don't remember 8 10ish sessions that I was able to get those.

This I mentioned this here because this session we're referring to, at least the last time we looked was only stream only. Um, and you couldn't look right

only. Um, and you couldn't look right now. Actually, no.

now. Actually, no.

>> What's happening to Paul's audio? Is

that Are you hearing that?

>> Interesting, isn't it? Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> You sound like you're underwater.

>> Put a sock over put a sock over the microphone.

>> Talk to me again. It was just a I think it was just a digital artifact.

Interesting artifact.

>> Just not quite a real computer computer.

>> Oh, you're using the development machine now.

>> Yeah.

>> Now that the snap the new Snapdragons do out, you're going to try the old one.

>> It doesn't matter. I I've been using the lowest end Snapdragon trip there is on the road.

>> This is this is an elite, you know.

>> Yeah. This is the fastest actually. This

is the fastest one. You can't get this processor pretty much anywhere else. I

>> really >> I think only um that Samsung laptop had it briefly and no other product ever offered it. So,

offered it. So, >> and then I gave it to you. So, you're

welcome.

>> Yeah. Um it's heating up the room nicely, so it's good this time of year.

It's It's nice. Um

>> Oh, boy. But yeah, I I it the the fan kind of kicks in sometimes and it's not always tied to me doing anything, which is entertaining.

>> The fact there's a fan on a Snapdragon at all says something.

>> I thought that was Yeah.

>> Yeah. I think the thing it says is that the company that made this is no good and Qualcomm cut ties with them immediately >> and that's why I got a refunded all the money.

>> It was it was a free pewtor.

>> Yeah. Um, anyway, it's, you know, hey, still better than that Lenovo thing that has one USBC port and it doesn't support display ports for some reason. I

>> That's the new thing. I I saw that the the new Dell XPS16 or whatever they call it these days has just very little very few ports as well. What's the

>> Yeah, I mean I It's okay, but like you have to support all the things.

>> Then you need a dock, >> right? Right.

>> right? Right.

>> I actually do have a dock too on this, but that's just whatever. Anyway, this

is a complicated setup with too few screens and too many other components, so it's good. Um,

>> just what you need >> for the holidays. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Um, so actually, let me see. No, I

I just said that that session was in fact available for download, but that's a different session. Let me just look again. No, it Okay, it is. I'm sorry.

again. No, it Okay, it is. I'm sorry.

So, if you do want to watch the Pavon double session, you can you can download it now. That wasn't true before I left

it now. That wasn't true before I left Mexico. So, that's good. So actually

Mexico. So, that's good. So actually

they're improving matters. I feel like this type of thing should be available uh for download. But there there's another session that has two of the

people that are in Devon's um session um which goes into these this particular topic in more detail. It's called agents at work. Windows powers the era of

at work. Windows powers the era of intelligent productivity. Um that's

intelligent productivity. Um that's worth watching. Um

worth watching. Um >> that's a title written by some marketing people. Yeah.

people. Yeah.

>> Yeah. 100%. But what what this all is is the same thing, right? So, um, a lot of controversy around this, but Microsoft is, uh, making Windows into an agentic as, whatever the heck that means.

>> Yeah. I don't even know there's controversy around this so much as is just AI rage and they pointed at whatever they can point it at.

>> This is the perfect nexus of Yes. AI

rage, which we're all feeling that disappointment. It's not, you know,

disappointment. It's not, you know, living up to all of its uh, >> it's like it's the 5G of technology.

It's not quite living up to all the promises, right? Yeah, promises have

promises, right? Yeah, promises have been outrageous. So, oddly enough,

been outrageous. So, oddly enough, they're outraged.

>> Yep. Um, but also you like I said last week, I mean I think in our community um if you look at uh the three of us or Rich and I right now I mean this we're the this is us you know we're this age like sorry um you know we're getting old

and um you know a lot of these people in the audience are kind of you know change averse and um every little change you know we'll talk about something that they're going out with notepad yet again

is like you know cause cause of concern right >> um >> yeah I I've had the experience of exactly the opposite this past week working with a development group in Sydney

>> where they're literally redesigning how they build software around these new tools.

>> Yeah, I love it.

>> Um >> I think that's me, but I think that's a good thing.

>> I don't agree. And then they're taking the lead on that and mostly they're trying to rein those tools in like this like there's a lot of power here and it's a bit scattered and here's how we're building frameworks and >> then

to get results from it.

>> Yeah. One of one of the things I haven't looked at too much yet is are some of the announcements that came out of Ignite that were developer related like Windows ML being generally available

etc. Um there's a uh something called AI dev gallery which is available in preview. If you have a it might work

preview. If you have a it might work just on any computer but if you have a copilot plus PC you can use it to interact with models that run off the MPU etc. It's there's some interesting

stuff happening. Um, but the the what

stuff happening. Um, but the the what Richard just said, I mean, one of my biggest one of my biggest memories or best memories when I was still at Windows IT Pro, which at that point

might have still been called Windows 2000 magazine or Windows and Net Mag, whatever it was at the time, it was a million years ago, but during the cloud transition, you know, we did these precon sessions at what was then called

um >> what was Ignite called before? Uh, tech

te tech.

And um man, I was leading the room that was doing the IT pro stuff and it was like a funeral in there. And then Mike OD who also wrote, you know, they get the magazine was in the dev room, which is where I wanted to be. And you it was

like a conga line in there. Those guys

were having a great time. They're like,

"Oh, you mean we get to re rewrite our code now for this new era?" Like

fantastic. Like

>> you know this I guess you could have a good attitude or a bad attitude. So like

I think here uh you know it's like the run as radio Windows Weekly uh side of things which is more um IT pro related admin whatever uh not not not a lot of

um not a lot of celebrating going on with this stuff you know a lot of dread.

>> Yeah it's it's a new set of risks. It's

a new set of reliability issues. Like

all of these things are true but you know it like you wanted to be bored at your job. Come on like this.

your job. Come on like this.

>> Yeah. Exactly. Yep. So there's uh you might know do you know Navjot? I'm not

pronouncing her name right if I'm so sorry if I'm mispronouncing this but her name is Navjot Verk. She's a corporate vice president Windows Experiences. She

was in the Davalori uh Pavlon Pavlan Davalori uh session, but also in this other session I just referenced. And um

she says something in both of them right up front which I I I think Microsoft needs to lead with a lot more these days, >> which is these experiences are optin.

They're optional. Um and you control whether or not you even see them. and

and you is meant broadly because it it means it but it also means end users and in the case of an IT uh managed environment where maybe they they've

said all right look we're going to allow you to access whatever these AI tools are you as the they don't just come on for you then have to as an individual enable them as well but you could choose

not to you know >> which is I mean I'm glad they're doing that it's the question every system been asked of every new tool is like can I turn it off. Let's see. But you also understand why they're so skeptical

because for the past 2 years, >> Microsoft has simply been making icons appear on in places.

>> I haven't noticed that. Um, no. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, right. So, look, sometimes you learn from mistakes. I guess maybe we could chalk that up to this, but um I if you think about this sort of thing as a

flowchart, it's like, do you want any AI stuff in Windows? And you're like, you know, there's a branch of that flowchart where you exit and you're done. Like it's it's fine. You can just

done. Like it's it's fine. You can just say no. Good. So, like to me that's the

say no. Good. So, like to me that's the right approach.

>> Um it's there if you want it, it's there for those people that uh >> it also speaks to me that it that this these tools are growing up enough that they're not just experimental but showing up anywhere that there is an

overall plan and that it can be deployed and not deployed and is part of a governance model that a system would want.

>> Yeah. I mean, yeah. I mean, there's almost you're speaking to like a sort of maturity occurring here, which is true.

Um but >> I it just feels like some adults in the room have shown up lately.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I this is, you know, one of the things I've been pointing out lately is like there are people in the industry who I just knee-jerk like can't

bear. And then there are some like um uh

bear. And then there are some like um uh the guy running Microsoft AI who I think is actually pretty great, you know, and so I I think having the right messenger helped. We talked about that a little

helped. We talked about that a little bit last week with Ignite in the keynote and I just felt like >> it was >> well that's a new Windows boss. Like I'm

really kind of excited there's a new Windows boss. I

Windows boss. I >> can't wait to see what he does and it's unfortunate that he's stepped on a landmine of not his own making.

>> I mean look, you're right. You're you're

you're going to army you're going to war with the army you have. I mean there's nothing I can do about that. I mean but um he seems like a good guy. He's an

engineer. He's a smart guy obviously. Um

and you know we'll see. I I don't get any bad vibes off of him. That's not

always been the case with people running Windows obviously.

>> Mhm.

>> Um so, you know, we'll see. Um but uh look, this um this session and the other one that I mentioned, which are essentially the same session, not controversial. I just I just want to

controversial. I just I just want to throw that out there. like um the things that aside from the you're in control bit and all that kind of stuff they they do some good this language around AI that I've never been comfortable with

this always new language around AI and it continues to be uncomfortable but they did a pretty good job of just saying look look copilot you just think of it as a finan it's a kind of an

orchestrator of sorts for apps and cloud AI services that are going to expose their functionality >> um yeah I they did not use this language this is still my language I'm I'm hoping

that someone out there comes up with something to make sense of this, but apps in Windows, apps on mobile, but here Windows >> are becoming what I call programmatic,

meaning that they're going to expose their capabilities to these services which include AI running locally or agents that are off doing things on your

behalf, etc. so that they can be used in a more elegant fashion than like AI moving a mouse cursor around in the screen and clicking boxes and by the way and we're that's but that's going to

happen that this is the interim right I mean this is part of it um so it's a transition um one of the you know uh controversies

in time of this past year was this co-pilot voice thing and people are never going to want to talk to their computers >> um they made a really good case for this And um I've already made my own case as

well, but you know, typing into a text box is maybe not a natural act for most people. And

people. And >> I think most of us just talk better in a sense than we do.

>> Well, half the time we're muttering while we type anyway, right? It's the

same words.

>> Yep. So, it's it's easier to say more and be more descriptive when you're just talking. But the nice thing about AI or

talking. But the nice thing about AI or one of the I don't know properties of AI or aspects of AI is that it understands your intent. And so if you think about

your intent. And so if you think about any app like Microsoft Office apps or whatever it might be where you know menu command and you're doing these very explicit things

that's an explicit you a have to know where to look and go and what thing to click and what it's going to do and how it works and all this stuff.

>> If you're memorizing the navigation of word you're in a special kind of hell right like >> Yeah. Well, I that was Steve just

>> Yeah. Well, I that was Steve just described half my career. Um, so I mean, you know, the idea is like, look, I just want to do this thing, just do it. And

it kind of understands your >> your intent, right? And that's

>> the only thing worse than trying to operate the UX is trying to describe how to operate the UX.

>> Yeah. I mean I that we will, you know, it's we're going to look back on this the way the world is from today and then the past 40 years or whatever. The same

way that we look back now on cars when you had to be a mechanic to understand how these things work cuz that was the prerequisites for using it and and just like it it just seems so archaic. But

the notion that like >> trying to describe to a 25year-old programmer about coding on a 80x 25 green screen with no mouse, he's just staring me like I got three heads, right? That's the craziest thing he's

right? That's the craziest thing he's ever heard.

>> Yeah. And then but the developers of that era when confronted by, oh, the future is all uh GUIs and blah blah blah, they're like, uh, no way I could do everything I need on a on a green

screen. And it's like, okay, but that's

screen. And it's like, okay, but that's we, you know, we it's the same cycle just keeps repeating. But um yeah, you know, right now if you want to uh I I use the same examples over and over

again, so it doesn't really matter. But

you know, that once a year thing when I do the PowerPoint pres or the um Excel uh chart or the once a year I do a PowerPoint presentation or the once a year I do whatever it is, some logo

thing in affinity where I have to put uh graphics behind letters, whatever it is, >> I have to like >> become an expert in that tool to do that thing and I I don't do it that much.

like it's like I don't I don't have time for this, you know, that's not my job.

And I think one of the things that comes out in these sessions is >> this notion that AI will in this case free you to do the things in your job or your life or whatever it is that is

meaningful to you, not >> spend all this time learning a tool, >> you know, that maybe you're not going to use every single day or whatever. So

>> anyway, but from from an actual u I don't know brass tax perspective or like this is what's actually happening. It's

just the stuff they show off. You're

like, "Yeah, no, this looks like Windows." It's the search box is going

Windows." It's the search box is going to do its own little orchestration based on what you're searching for. It's

sometimes it's going to launch >> file search, sometimes it's going to launch a web search, sometimes it's going to launch co-pilot because you can interact with that. Sometimes it's going to kick off a couple of agents that are going to go off and do your thing. And

that's yeah, it's an operating system. I

mean, it seems like this is like one of the places where you would do this. Um,

the other one is Office. And of course, big part of this is integrating the Microsoft 365 C-pilot capabilities into Windows where that makes sense.

um this helping accessibility through things like writing assistance which is an AI based capability you see in discrete apps like word or uh even notepad but just making it available at

the system level and saying this if you are using something that has text in it you can use this everywhere like yes that's how oss work like that makes sense or fluid dictation which is the

key to that thing we were just talking about which is not click the edit menu and then click this thing and then do this it's do this thing like understand what I'm saying

>> it's the uh you're just using natural language voice and you don't have to it's not a zork you know command that has to be exactly right or whatever it

screws up it's we understand your intent >> um and that's kind of it other than well I'm sorry I should say uh if you obviously co-pilot's going to come up

sometimes agents will appear as icons in the taskbar so they're like apps You can click on that thing to get a little >> kind of a popup of how it's doing and where it's at. If it needs to contact

you, which it will, it does a standard Windows notification. And um then, you

Windows notification. And um then, you know, this agent needs, you know, is it okay if I do this?

>> You might even be getting notifications you want.

>> Yeah. I mean, I that's never literally happened to me ever in my life, but I'm I'm open I'm open to that experience.

Possibility. I'd love for that to happen. But do you think about the

happen. But do you think about the spring of 23 when LLMs were were first raging in and then and slowly consuming our conversation? We talked about, you

our conversation? We talked about, you know, the perfect place for this to hub around would be Windows. That's never

going to happen. The Windows team is lost.

>> Exactly.

>> Right. Exactly.

>> And now now there's a new sheriff in town. He's unified the the client and

town. He's unified the the client and the server side and he's committing to what I think is the obvious path.

>> Yes. Yep. And it's it's not look um you you can do something like add multi-touch capabilities to Windows without destroying the OS. Right now

they did but they went down this path with Windows 8 where they changed the whole UI. They maybe bit up more than

whole UI. They maybe bit up more than they should have.

>> They had to scale it back over the next couple of point releases and then Windows 10. So they went too far in this

Windows 10. So they went too far in this direction. But when I look at this kind

direction. But when I look at this kind of UI and you know I don't have this to play with. I don't I have not used

play with. I don't I have not used anything I just described basically.

You know I can't I I I'm just going off of a demo. So you know we'll see what it's like in real life. But as far as it making sense within the context of the UI that is Windows today. Yeah. Like it

just makes sense. It's fine.

>> Um it >> but you know but you're also you're also talking about the reality here which is mistakes will be made. Oh yeah. Yep.

>> But starting to implement these things, starting to experiment here isn't the mistake.

>> Yeah. No, it this is um really about keeping Windows relevant for this next era. Um

era. Um >> an operating system is going to matter at all. It's going to update its UX to

at all. It's going to update its UX to take advantage of new capabilities, >> right? I mean, if you care about Windows

>> right? I mean, if you care about Windows as a platform, you should in some ways embrace this. We can like I keep saying

embrace this. We can like I keep saying the same things, but we can sort of debate these little specific points. You

know, you might look at >> whatever the thing is. Uh like I don't like I don't like the way that I I type.

I'm messy. My hands are big and when I type I'm like I'm all over the place. I

hit that co-pilot button a lot. Stupid

window comes up and it's like >> So I stop Yeah, I can fix this. Anyone

can fix it. Well, sort of anyone can fix it because you could just uninstall it, I guess. But then you hit the button and

I guess. But then you hit the button and it's like all right, what do you want to do with this button? And you're like, I don't want to do anything with this button. Is not one of the choices. So

button. Is not one of the choices. So

Mhm.

>> You have to use a tool of some kind. I

use Power Toys as a key. I think it's just called keyboard manager, I think is the name of it.

>> Um, and I just map it to the left arrow key because that's right next to that key on most keyboards. And um,

>> at least on laptop keyboards it again.

>> Well, I never see it again, right? I I

notice it when it's not running, right?

Because every once in a while it will be like, hey, the get settings will be like, you what do you want to do here?

And it's like, I want you to never appear again. That's what I want, you

appear again. That's what I want, you know? But that's not it. I wonder what

know? But that's not it. I wonder what the be I mean my experience the way I use AI and I use it all the time is I kind of want it to be segregated into a separate tool that I will then

>> explicitly call I don't really want it to be built into my browser I've tried the agenic browsers I don't really want it to be >> a a a feature in Windows I want it to be

like the chat GBT so app >> yeah no I >> but maybe that's just oldfashioned maybe that's going to change >> no I I actually If anything, you're probably just skipping ahead in a way,

right? Like like what you're describing

right? Like like what you're describing is the ultimate example of like you would go to this chatbot thing and say, I want to here's some data. I would like a chart. And it's not like I'm going to

a chart. And it's not like I'm going to Excel and saying, all right, how do I use this to make a chart? You're just

you're like, I don't care how you make the damn chart. Just make the chart.

>> So, you're kind of skipping over those tools. Like Microsoft is in in some

tools. Like Microsoft is in in some ways, a lot of this stuff is interrum, right? And so Google's doing it. You're

right? And so Google's doing it. You're

literally describing some of the stuff that Gates said in the road ahead. Like

why are we talking about applications still just work with documents, >> right? You know,

>> right? You know, >> what do you want to do is what you want to do and and to doing that with Google Drive. Like there's AI all over it and I

Drive. Like there's AI all over it and I keep having >> Well, but I I I think it's about addressing customers like where they are, right? So if you're that type of

are, right? So if you're that type of person who is working in files in whatever >> you don't want to leave it that makes >> well or you just used to it. It's like I I just that this is where I am. So, it's

okay. Like what you're saying, which I think is actually like more sophisticated and ultimately better and probably more common in the future is just you're

you're like this per like in Star Trek, you know, you're like, I have this idea I would like, you know, whatever it is.

And you know, it's if you think about something, it could be something really simple like um shopping. Like I keep using this Sonos speaker example like I just want to buy this speaker when it hits a price point.

If it does hit that price point, just buy it. I don't care where it's coming

buy it. I don't care where it's coming from. And it just comes. I mean, you'll

from. And it just comes. I mean, you'll be notified like, "Hey, we're buying the speaker. You you asked and here it's

speaker. You you asked and here it's coming." And I guess if you're curious,

coming." And I guess if you're curious, you could be like, "Where's it coming from?" And they're like, "It's coming

from?" And they're like, "It's coming from Teimu." And you're like, "Damn it.

from Teimu." And you're like, "Damn it.

I didn't want a a Spasonus speaker. I

wanted a Sonus or whatever. So, we're

going to have those mistakes.

>> But then you put in then the next Now what you do is you put in your I'm sure there's somewhere you can put like >> commands and you say never use Teemo.

>> Exactly. Or always use Amazon maybe if that's because I have I pay for Prime or whatever it might be. It's fine.

>> But that's that's kind of annoying. It's

like do what I do what I want. Do what I mean not what I say, you know?

>> But that's get back to that point, right? Literally the context.

right? Literally the context.

>> It's understanding your intent. Yeah.

>> And and it's going you're going to be angry with it every time it gets the context wrong.

>> I think I I noticed even when I'm coding, I don't want it in my IDE. I I

kind of like to use clawed code at the >> This is something I'm trying to >> I think that's a flaw in me. I don't

>> the thing. Well, it depends because I look if it works the the notion that you can have like this sidebar in the app and it's like, "All right, we looked at your code. Here's the fixes." And then

your code. Here's the fixes." And then you it will actually show you in the code with green and red boxes and this is >> what it says we're changing.

>> Yeah, >> you could say okay >> this is cool. I like this. You know, I'm cursor I'm sure fair works like this.

Whatever. But

>> um but when it's wrong all the time, which is what I experienced because I'm using the Windows app SDK cuz I hate myself. Um you know, then you get into

myself. Um you know, then you get into this circular loop of like it never being right and then you get really aggravated. So, the the fact that like

aggravated. So, the the fact that like it could be over here in this other window and I'd have to cut and paste or however you get that, however you move it between. Um, it was just like an

it between. Um, it was just like an additional step I can't even deal with.

Although, if you said to me, if you switch to that thing and it would work, I'd be like, "All right, I will try that." But I'm trying to I'm trying to

that." But I'm trying to I'm trying to work through that. But it it depends on what you're doing. I guess it depends on how you work. I mean developer like everyone has these workflow habits that are like ingrained and it's hard to

break out of them. So, it doesn't really matter if you're like a like you're an expel an Excel wizard or like a programmer or whatever it is. Like you

know this tool, you're used to it and it's like here's another way of doing it and you're like yeah I'm not doing that.

Like I just I do the thing I do. And I

think that's part of the the hurdle the hump whatever we're trying to get over here which is that we're all kind there's a billion plus of us out there doing whatever we're doing every day.

we're used, you know, we wake up in the IT space maybe or in the mix.

>> Oh, it's happening again. I It feels like it's periodic, like there's something that machine is doing. Are

there other processes running on that machine?

>> No.

>> Every once in a while it happens. It

goes away about 10 15 seconds, but >> it gets a little warrior and then it goes muddy and then it recovers.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. No, I mean Yeah. I can't explain.

There's a machine over.

>> It feels like something's like your email's going, "Oh, let me get email now."

now." >> There's no garbage collector.

>> Literally, it's just a web browser and a couple of apps just for the show like notion and whatever. Um, well,

>> there's also the noise, but I think that's uh the fan. Pretty sure that's >> Yeah, I don't know. I Yeah, I do have it set on be best performance. Um, cuz

>> maybe turn down the performance.

>> You think so?

>> Yeah. You don't need performance. Just

looking at a window browser window.

>> I need the performance. No, that's fine.

>> Ironically, it might perform better if you didn't you didn't have it on high.

>> By the way, that's true. I mean, and you know, my experience with the lower-end chips is like these things are not running as fast as it is, and they all work great. Like I maybe

work great. Like I maybe we'll see what this does. If anything,

>> let's Anyway, okay, we'll try that and see. I apologize.

see. I apologize.

>> Yeah. No, I apologize. I Yeah, I didn't >> I mean, at worst case, we could reboot and uh re restart, but I don't started this up, right? There's not been It's not been running all day.

>> It's just No. And I feel like I I'll just sw I'll swap this thing out. I just

wanted to use >> No, you No, it's fair. You wanted to use it.

>> Yeah.

>> This is what you do. You're like Jerry Pornell.

>> I mean, sort of.

>> I don't know.

>> I don't know.

>> Go ahead. just continue on. And

>> no, it's okay. Anyway, so look, I um wherever you are in in life with this stuff, if you're just an individual enthusiast, whatever, if you're an IT, if you're a developer, whatever it is,

>> I I really feel like you you should go look at this session. I mean, it's worth watching. It's not radical. It's not off

watching. It's not radical. It's not off the charts. It's not crazy. It's it

the charts. It's not crazy. It's it

makes sense, if that makes sense. Um, it

it makes sense in the context of Windows as we use it today. Like it's not a it's not like this, okay, everything's going to change. I mean, everything is probably going to change over time, but

um the stuff they're doing here just to me makes sense within the context of what we have, what Windows is. So, it's,

you know, Windows 8, I was telling my wife this the other day. I was like, you know, I have to I had to think back to like um there was a point with Windows 8 where you're like, look, we're on a roller coaster right now. I I think the

handlebar is not going to work. So, I'm

holding on for dear life, but for right now, I'm just gonna I don't not enjoy the ride. I'm just gonna sort of endure

the ride. I'm just gonna sort of endure the ride. Yeah.

the ride. Yeah.

>> You know, like this two shall pass.

>> Yeah.

>> And um and it did. It took a while, but um I I don't get that vibe from this like >> No, they seem way more incremental and careful like they >> you know, you think about the highlights

of me the the win eight >> smash it was they kept it secret.

>> Yeah. Yeah, you know, they wouldn't talk about it for the longest time. They they

had >> when they did talk about it, they talked about feedback endlessly and used none of it. And um including their own

of it. And um including their own internal feedback where they had gotten they did this study at one point like would it make sense for us to have this thing in the first bootup experience where it showed you where all the stuff

was? And they were like, "Yeah, this

was? And they were like, "Yeah, this actually improved discoverability by like 80%." And they're like, "Yeah,

like 80%." And they're like, "Yeah, we're not doing it." And they're like, "Okay, uh so why did you do the study?

like what do you you know are you actually trying to improve the product here? Like

here? Like >> it was a there was a weird almost it felt malicious at the time but it was a weirdness to it and um >> there was belief that they had a new vision and all of us were still having

to catch up.

>> Yeah. Well, yeah. No, these were people who had clearly seen the future. Um you

know, like that crazy guy in the Friday the 13th movies like you're all doomed, you know, like yeah, we get it. You

you're you're you're a visionary. Thank

you. Um but uh yeah, so things went a little differently. Um I I just feel

little differently. Um I I just feel like this is more respectful of the computing situation we have today than was Windows 8 at that time. You know,

here's a >> starting with these sessions themselves, right? It looks like, hey, here's what

right? It looks like, hey, here's what we're thinking.

>> Yeah. No, and look, to be clear, they even in this generation, they haven't always gotten this right. I mean, when Ysef Medi stood up on stage at that co-pilot plus PC launch and talked about

recall, I was like, "Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no." Not because I was worried about

no." Not because I was worried about recall, but just the way that he was talking about it was like, you know, us, you can you can trust us. We're going to be good with your day. You're like, "Oh, dude no no no no."

>> So, it took them a long time on recall.

They finally got to the point where they explain it adequately now. And of

course, now they also have it's opt in, not opt out, which is a huge change. So

they got there and I just feel like here we are. So it's a year and a half after

we are. So it's a year and a half after that.

>> Not even I roughly and um this is clearly triggering for some people. So

they're doing a good job I think of at least explaining it. Doesn't mean what they're going to do is going to be great. Like Richard said we got to you

great. Like Richard said we got to you know we can we will talk about the implementation and there will be problems. >> Um but some of the stuff too I think will will work. I the central disconnect

for me is that the description of this has not changed in the last year, which is just >> you're going to turn this thing on. It's

going to go do something on your behalf.

And uh like I said last week, I think I I not that no one has done this, but I I've never actually done that. So I've

never successfully fired up an agent and had to go do something on my behalf and come back and be like, I'm done. It's awesome. Um, you

know, I've done the, you know, like a like a deep research report and with whatever AI on some topic just to kind of see what it did, but I don't really I don't I don't use the stuff really myself. So, I don't know.

myself. So, I don't know.

>> It's funny. We use it all the time now.

I uh we have um >> Anthony Nielson has created a claude skill that he uses for research for interview subjects. I wish I'd had this

interview subjects. I wish I'd had this when I was a >> you know a radio host. wife used my wife does this kind of thing too and >> it's incredible.

>> Yeah. I

>> super good. I think you look like the one thing I want people, you know, when I complain about whatever it is like the our community and change diversity and all that kind of stuff, please remember

something. Uh, two things. I'm a I'm a

something. Uh, two things. I'm a I'm a hypocrite. Um, and the reason I feel so

hypocrite. Um, and the reason I feel so >> one of us, Paul, that's all >> that's what I mean. Like I I understand that other people are going to want to use this stuff and I think it's going to

work great in many cases. I struggle to use it myself, but that but that doesn't mean I don't want it to happen or care that it's happening or don't see the

value of it. Like I I see things around me where people are using it. It's like

nice. Um like Leo just said or like my wife's doing or whatever it is. And um

good, that's great. You know, I am old-fashioned. I don't know that I can

old-fashioned. I don't know that I can change in this case. So maybe it's just like uh you know, do what I say, not what I do. or it's easier to give advice than to follow it or whatever it is, however you want to phrase it.

>> I think we're in such early days that no one knows that we just don't know what the and so everybody should experiment.

All the companies should experiment.

Open AI and Johnny IV, you saw the Sam Alman, Johnny IV interview uh earlier this week with uh Loren Powell Jobs and they're talking about this thing they that Johnny says

>> that's what two years away.

>> Yeah, two years away. And I I I I I want to eat it. And like it has to be has to be something you want to eat. I'm

thinking well >> here we go. Okay. So, 20 years ago, we were licking something and now we're eating it.

>> But and everybody mocked him, including everybody at Mac Break Weekly yesterday.

But I think it's great. We should all every every experiment should be tried because it's all unknown. This is brand new.

>> No, it should all be tried. I I I in that case, the weirdness is >> your AI, but >> don't Well, maybe we do eventually. I

don't know. But like it's going to eat us.

>> Is it going to be a blue pill or red pill? Like so um Johnny Ives was

pill? Like so um Johnny Ives was partnered with Steve Jobs for many years. And so Steve Jobs was very

years. And so Steve Jobs was very secrecy forward. That was his whole

secrecy forward. That was his whole shtick, right? So you would never know

shtick, right? So you would never know what Johnny IV was working on that was two three years down the road. You they

would just come up with new products >> and then it would be awesome or not or whatever. But now it's like Johnny IV is

whatever. But now it's like Johnny IV is working with >> I don't know the the the grand clown of our industry and it's like yeah in two and a half years we're going to come out with this awesome little product.

Yeah, >> dude. This is not the time to be talking

>> dude. This is not the time to be talking about some device that's not coming out in the next year. Are you kidding me?

>> Only reason I bring it up is it's like it's encouraging. Microsoft's trying

it's encouraging. Microsoft's trying stuff. Uh, you know, we're trying a

stuff. Uh, you know, we're trying a genetic browsers. We're trying it at the

genetic browsers. We're trying it at the command line. I mean, there's all

command line. I mean, there's all there's all kinds of ways uh to use it.

>> Yep.

>> Um, >> yeah. I'm sorry to interrupt, but you

>> yeah. I'm sorry to interrupt, but you said earlier something operating systems and web browsers and you were like, I don't know like I want AI in the web browser and I have to say I I I I think

the same way. Like I don't want it to be like in an AI mode all the time, but >> Yeah. I want to choose when to use it. I

>> Yeah. I want to choose when to use it. I

want more. It should be more modal.

>> Yeah. Like like how like, you know, I'll go to an article that I want to read, maybe some like long thing like an RS Technica something. It's like 8,000

Technica something. It's like 8,000 words, whatever. It's like, okay, so

words, whatever. It's like, okay, so what are the stages here? Like I could put it into Instagram or Insta paper or something like that. So I have like a clean view of the story, no distractions. I'm going to read it

distractions. I'm going to read it later. Maybe read it offline. Okay,

later. Maybe read it offline. Okay,

cool. Um, someone else might look at that thing and be like, look, I don't have time for this nonsense. I do kind of want to know what it says, so I can use AI to summarize it. And maybe I get

like a bullet list, you know, but maybe the future and which is so anti-reading. It makes me sad. But

for a lot of people, it's going to be like, I don't even want a bullet list.

Just tell me if I need to know about this.

>> Make a podcast.

>> Just Yeah. Yeah. Make it right. Just do

it in my voice. It could be like two guys talking, you know.

>> No, I like what you just said is tell me if I should be should care about this.

>> I I think for a lot of people and if the answer is no, then I won't read it. Then

you just move on. It's just noise. I get

assuming you can trust that thing to have given you good advice, right?

>> Which is also part of the equation, the trust factor. But

trust factor. But >> so I I don't know. I um I don't think AI is making us stupider just like I don't think a typewriter, a word processor

than a PC made us stupider. I I we have different ways to express ourselves.

Those ways evolve over time as a lifelong reader. I am sad about how I

lifelong reader. I am sad about how I can't myself read long form things that well anymore. I don't think anyone can.

well anymore. I don't think anyone can.

Um and I feel like a lot of that stuff's going to go away and that's stinks as in my opinion. But but I'm also not going

my opinion. But but I'm also not going to halt all progress because I like to read words on a piece of paper or whatever it is. Um you know things change. So I don't know in some ways I I

change. So I don't know in some ways I I vaguely like the idea of you don't have to do as much drudgery because that stuff can be handled by AI or whatever

the software is and uh you can focus on things that are maybe more meaningful to you personally or whatever. And like

that sounds good.

>> When you're talking about >> it can't, you know, I don't know >> this time of being in a limited attention economy, could we possibly have a tool that helps us manage the the

allocation of attention? That's awesome.

>> Right. I mean,

>> that it's there yet, but it's an awesome idea.

>> It's like someone stabbing you in the stomach and then selling you the thing that will heal you, I guess. But it's

the you know but but yes uh if you within the context of this is the reality of our lives today.

>> Um any tool that can uh help with that is yeah I mean I'm I'm listening at least I mean let me see I I'll try it.

You know >> Kagi has uh you know I'm a big Cogi fan.

They have a new >> summarizer uh tool which uh I actually haven't used that much. I I don't I've I've yet to become a fan of summaries.

>> Same same thing. But I but I respect that others may want or need that.

>> People are raving about it saying this is this is the way I'm just going to see if I can put Pavl.

>> Yes. Oh yeah. Put it

>> see if it can read. I mean if it can handle a video maybe. I mean there are there is now uh you know the capability of

>> uh having your AI Wow, look at that.

Um, no, that's not the video. That's

>> Yeah, >> I wonder if there's a way I could There's a new tool that can be listening to your show >> and suggest questions like live.

>> So, by the way, so one thing that is available at least for one of those videos. Let me see if it's both. Yeah.

videos. Let me see if it's both. Yeah.

No, it's both >> transcript.

>> Is a transcript.

>> Okay.

>> So, feed that in.

>> That would um you know, be something you could easily >> be I hate watching videos and getting information from video to people.

So, exactly. I I I >> Oh, it already has. Look, it the page already has an AI summary. I made a mistake. Why bother? And Microsoft's

mistake. Why bother? And Microsoft's

done it for you.

>> Well, you It's good to check it, right?

I mean, Microsoft might not have the most uh accurate one, but >> download transcript. Okay.

>> You know, for me, like I came up out of bookw writing on paper, literally magazines, you know, and then you get to like websites and it's like blogs. Like

bloggers are like lesser people, you know, and then it's like what could be lower than that? like I don't know how about a YouTuber, you know, and then now we have Tik Tok and it's it's keeps

going, right? And so I there's there is

going, right? And so I there's there is stuff out there that I like to watch.

That's >> I just fed it the transcript and it's giving me key moments.

>> Yeah. So a lot of times this is what you >> That would save me a lot of time. Just

the bullet points. Yeah.

>> So just accurate, >> right? So there there are a couple

>> right? So there there are a couple little things in here where I'm like Yeah. So, one of the things they really

Yeah. So, one of the things they really focused on at Ignite and then these two um sessions in particular is this thing called that they're calling Frontier Firms. So, Frontier Firms is a new Microsoft Well, it's a new phrase

Microsoft's using. I don't know if they

Microsoft's using. I don't know if they invented it, but these are the the companies who are like actually taking a chance on AI, right? They're I imagine

them in a a stage coach going out west in the 1800s. You know, they're in the frontier.

>> Um you know, it could be dead wood.

Could be. It could be the uh what's the people that had to eat each other in Colorado? Whatever it is.

Colorado? Whatever it is.

>> Yeah. Honor party. Honor party. Party.

>> Donor party.

>> Um it's like no, we're full. Thanks. Uh

we don't anymore. Um yeah. I mean,

they're living on the edge, you know, so to speak. So, that was one of the terms,

to speak. So, that was one of the terms, you know, that was part of that uh all this new language stuff. It's not even like a technical term. It's just like um kind of a marketing term, which is surprised. We're the seekers.

surprised. We're the seekers.

>> Yeah, we're seekers is what? Yeah. Well,

it's weird that we don't have a term for this thing I keep calling programmatic apps. It's like apps that expose public

apps. It's like apps that expose public interfaces for use to be consumed by AI or whatever. What's the word for that?

or whatever. What's the word for that?

And they're like, I we're doing that everywhere. We don't have a word for

everywhere. We don't have a word for that. I'm like, you have a word for it.

that. I'm like, you have a word for it.

You come on, get a word. Um anyway,

we'll have a word eventually, but >> there's a word for it. Apps will just go away. I don't know.

away. I don't know.

>> Let me uh take a break uh here. There's

a word for that. It's called sponsor advertising. Uh but we will continue.

advertising. Uh but we will continue.

You're watching Windows Weekly with Paul Throught and Richard Campbell.

>> Uh and uh if I don't know, should we have Paul restart John Ashley? John's

filling in for Kevin King.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Probably Paul is have you restart.

And Richard, could you uh rejoin the call?

>> You also need to Oh, all you guys go away and come back again, would you please? I beg of you.

please? I beg of you.

>> Can we just start this over, please?

>> Let's just start over. Meanwhile, I am going to tell you about our sponsor.

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And that little bloop means that Paul Thorat has joined the party.

We're going to see if we can uh get him all set up. Richard Campbell. He's in

Kangada, Australia. And he's not His sinking is fantastic now.

>> Kolingada Devita.

>> Kangara Deita, babe. Hoping for the best.

>> All right. Um All right. Well, we that was just the beginning of uh this show and we have much more to talk about uh including

some new features.

Yes. Let's see.

right after the ad block >> UIs for these new features.

>> Yeah, actually, so we we kind of went through this quickly, but >> Oh, we already did. Yeah, this is worth just No, it's fine. This is just um this is why it's worth watching at least one of those two videos. They kind of spell

out like what this will look like in Windows. And

Windows. And >> so he so he does talk about that's pretty concrete then he >> shows it off. Yeah, it's pretty good.

Yeah, I I thought it was >> So what do you think? Do you want this?

Uh, here's what I think. So, 20 years ago, I would have been super excited about this. Um, I do feel like I I I feel that

this. Um, I do feel like I I I feel that thing that I think a lot of people feel, which is like >> I'm getting ready for stuff to stop changing so much, you know, like I I I

do have that aspect of kind of change adversity. Like, I get it. I do

adversity. Like, I get it. I do

understand it. Um, but I also don't mind that it's occurring and I I appreciate that other people will actually really really like this stuff and want to use

it. It's fine. I like that it's um opt

it. It's fine. I like that it's um opt out you opt in rather. Sorry.

>> Um that I'm not going to get it by default. Um I look I'm I'm going to test

default. Um I look I'm I'm going to test it. I'm going to try it and you never

it. I'm going to try it and you never know. Like I'm I'm open to change. I

know. Like I'm I'm open to change. I

just don't >> I don't know. I've had little success I would say with this kind of stuff.

Although just software in general. I

mean the the the set of apps that I use every day has changed pretty dramatically in the last couple years.

Um but it's changed dramatically to go away from like big tech stuff too, right? It's not, you know, a lot of the

right? It's not, you know, a lot of the what I'm doing now is not Microsoft, Google, whomever. It's notion, proton,

Google, whomever. It's notion, proton, you know, markdown, things like that.

So, >> oh, we didn't fix it. In fact, I think we might have made it work.

>> Well, it'll be fixed now.

Sorry.

>> How will it be fixed?

>> It just cycles out again.

>> Yeah, it gets better. It gets worse than things get better. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I don't know. All right. Back.

>> It's like that lump on your back.

Sometimes it's okay.

>> Yeah. Could just be sometimes a lump just ignore it. Yeah. It'll be fine.

Walk it off. Um

>> Yeah.

>> But yeah, and this whole opt-in model from a system perspective is I don't have to roll this out to everyone all at once. I can stage it and time when we do

once. I can stage it and time when we do things.

>> Yep.

>> And it's probably not going to be the it wants to roll it in the first place.

They the the workers are going to want it. And so

it. And so >> yeah, I mean, you know, that way you get a head start, right? You get to try things and sort of evaluate how you're going to work it into the existing workflows,

>> right? Yeah.

>> right? Yeah.

>> We will see. I I'm looking for some real specific examples. Well, and but also

specific examples. Well, and but also these these happy noises about all the security and privacy and so forth. It's

like, okay, you said that. Now we're

going to have to see if you're right.

>> That's right.

Yep. Right now it's just a lot of talk.

But >> yeah, >> you know, we shall see.

>> Mistakes will be made. That's that is the truth.

>> Yeah, that's the thing like you know like like uh complaining about this now and sort of saying like nobody wants this. It's like yeah okay I that's not

this. It's like yeah okay I that's not true. Um, but let's let's let them make

true. Um, but let's let's let them make the mistake. Maybe they'll get some

the mistake. Maybe they'll get some stuff right, you know. Um, you know, we'll see.

>> Yeah. And at the same time, it's like it's not that nobody wants this. It's

nobody's actually tried this. So, how

could they want anything? How can you even hate this when you haven't even tasted it? Like, you know nothing.

tasted it? Like, you know nothing.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

>> You know the name of it and now you're angry.

>> Yeah. Look, Microsoft hasn't helped themselves by doing what they've done to Windows over the past several years. Um,

>> no. And people have a point and and the and the other argument here of the would you just fix this stuff in Windows legit, >> right? And and I would, you know, one of

>> right? And and I would, you know, one of the things I would I wish Pavan had spent some time on is like, hey, I've unified a group together and we're going to go down this list of complaints.

We're going to knock a few of the biggest ones out as quickly as we can, >> right?

The problem is well the problem there are so many problems but one of the problems is that a lot of the mistakes a lot of the problems in Windows are of Microsoft's own making right these are not

>> situations that occurred to Microsoft these are things Microsoft has done to us >> and um they have to kind of step back from this you know one of the things that Dave plameumber brought up was this

like I want a power user switch and I just want to not have all this junk that's trying to force feed me whatever and and tell teach me how to do stuff like I get it. I'm an expert. I'm like,

yeah, I hear you. But

>> I asked Chris Capella when he was the C CMO of Microsoft if >> Microsoft would just please let me pay 20 bucks a year or add it to my Microsoft 365 subscription where I

essentially get what he the plumbers's asking for, which is just >> turn all this junk off, you know? And

it's like, oh, we're never going to do that. I'm like, why? It's like, well,

that. I'm like, why? It's like, well, that's like admitting that what we're doing now in Windows is terrible. I'm

like, what you're doing in Windows now is terrible. like just like you know I

is terrible. like just like you know I it's just like give me a note you know um I sort of accept on some level I might have to pay for that the a lot of

the insertification in Windows is tied to no one is buying this thing anymore it comes with new PCs but you don't ever buy an upgrade now so this is the this

kind of revenue path is gone and I get it Microsoft's you know they're a company they're trying to make money I get it I I I respect that it's fine Um,

I will pay you, you know, I I to not have this junk, but still not an option.

So, I don't know.

>> No, it makes for a secondary market where you've some clever person figures out all the tools you need to turn off all the stuff so you can make a bespoke configuration that doesn't annoy you.

>> That's right. And that's Yeah, >> I have a lot of time hanging out with that guy real soon now.

>> I spent a lot of time on this stuff.

It's not good. It's not healthy. But I

But I wish I didn't have to. I mean, I wish this wasn't the way the world was, but it is. And what are you going to do?

I mean, >> yeah, >> look, we've been dealing with this forever. I mean, someone asked me last

forever. I mean, someone asked me last week about uh PC makers and crapware and why do they do it? Like, you know, it's like we're we're like 40 years into this >> and it's they do it for the same reason they've always done it. The margins are

incredibly small and they have to try and you think about the weirdness of Windows, whether you're Microsoft or a PC maker. You're selling some of product

PC maker. You're selling some of product as a PC maker. It's hardware, but the operating system is made by Microsoft.

Technically, you're on the hook for support and but you don't have a thing with this person person. They bought the computer.

person person. They bought the computer.

So, of course, they're putting stuff in the computer where it's like, oh, we sell an anti virus service. We sell a, you know, personal uh identification monitor, whatever it is that all the crap that these PC makers put on there.

We have our own AI agent now. Great.

That's exactly what everyone wanted.

another one of those from you, you know, you proven maker of really good software. Um, and then from Microsoft's

software. Um, and then from Microsoft's perspective, same thing. It's like we don't have to handle the support because they got it with the PC that's on HP, Lenovo Dell whoever

but we also do want that relationship with the customer and we'd like the upsell too and >> and this is the nature of our business.

So sorry everybody but you know that's but that was that PC maker crapper is maybe the original form of certification on this platform. I mean we've been

dealing with this from day one you know so here we are anyway. Um so all right so

moving past that finally um we did get one major set of bills this past week by the way. Oh, speaking of which, by the

the way. Oh, speaking of which, by the way, yesterday was week D Tuesday and what happened yesterday? Nothing.

>> Um, right. So, it's probably because it's

right. So, it's probably because it's the holiday week, I guess. I don't know.

>> Or was the night week, right? like the

>> I mean we should have gotten the you know and we will like in the next couple we will because um we're what two weeks away from or less than two weeks away from patch Tuesday in December and we

know that's going to be a pretty big one actually. Um but we did get dev and beta

actually. Um but we did get dev and beta builds, right? And so these things right

builds, right? And so these things right now are the same build. It's 25H2

uh and it's some of the stuff or at least one of the things I mentioned earlier which was that fluid dictation and voice typing. So, if you

have uh a PC with an MPU, meaning a copilot plus PC, I guess we can't say things normally anymore.

>> Um, >> apparently that's still a thing, you know, a year later.

>> So, this is not so much about well, it is about intent, but in a different direction. So, in other words, uh this

direction. So, in other words, uh this is for voice typing and and this is what your uh phone does when you just type or when you use your voice to type. It's

the same thing, right? um you might say something that's incorrect within the context of the sentence you're saying it in and rather than just quote you verbatim, it will correct it for you.

Right? So this is things like grammar, punctuation, filler words, etc. So if you say um um um um a lot in the middle of a sentence like a lot of people do, it's not going to leave that in because that's going to look terrible,

>> right? And so that's good. Like that's a

>> right? And so that's good. Like that's a that's a that's a good use of AI. Like

that's a really good use. Um, there was a uh a feature that Microsoft talked about at Ignite called point- in time restore. Been around for a long time.

restore. Been around for a long time.

This has come up a few times. You might

think of this as a sort of modern version of the system restore capability. It was part of the NTbased

capability. It was part of the NTbased versions of Windows for so many years.

And it's still in there today, by the way. It's just disabled by default, but

way. It's just disabled by default, but you can actually turn it on and use it if you want. But the idea here is that u there and this was something Pavan did say explicitly and I don't remember if

it was Richard or Leo said he should come out and be like we're improving the platform too 100%. He he did mention this part of it. He talked about how they were modernizing

um Windows recovery. All right. And so

we've seen things like quick machine uh restore quick restore quick machine restore QML. Yeah. Um, and some of the

restore QML. Yeah. Um, and some of the other things that have been happening to Windows 11 over the past year. So, this

is point in time restore for Windows is the same in in the same league or whatever.

>> We we also had the fast recovery bug where USB mouse and keyboard did not work.

>> Yes.

>> Yeah. That was the yin and the yang of Windows, you know, like Yeah, they make mistakes.

>> Um, uh, and then just some smaller updates that are kind of across apps, but two of the more notable ones in the Microsoft store. I literally just looked at this.

store. I literally just looked at this.

I was curious that this wasn't a feature, but if you look at the list of apps that are installed on your PC from the store app, which is where you would go to like download updates, etc., there's a dot dot dot menu over the

side. One of the options that is not

side. One of the options that is not there today is uninstall, right?

>> Um, >> yeah, because if you think like if you're like me and you go to the Windows Store and you're like, "All right, I'm just un I'm mental. I think like this.

I'm going to go I actually launched the wrong app there. I'm going to go into the Microsoft Store, go to downloads, be like, I'm going to check for updates."

The nature of the store today is that a lot of the apps or some of the apps anyway that are in there are not actually centrally managed by the store.

This is an option Microsoft gives developers. You can kind of handle this

developers. You can kind of handle this yourself and so it will not actually install the update, but it will list it there and let you manually install an update. Right.

update. Right.

>> Right.

>> So, when I see apps that do that, I wonder to myself, why am I getting this through the store? So, I'm like, click dot dot dot, get rid of this thing, and I'll go get it from the web like a normal person. and that option is not

normal person. and that option is not there today, but it's coming. So, that's

>> that's a good place for that. I I I've certainly looked for it.

>> Um and because Microsoft knows everyone loves when they update Notepad, >> um they're they're updating that app with >> especially. Yes.

>> especially. Yes.

>> Yeah, exactly. Um for tables and um these are like textbased tables like so whatever >> that's slowly becoming word.

>> Yeah. Or word pad, right? Which is kind of the thing. But it's it's never going to be like real rich text. This is like um lightly formatted meaning um like markdown uh style formatting which is

what I use for all my writing right now anyway. So to me this is great but

anyway. So to me this is great but whatever.

>> And then um the AI powered uh writing functions which is like write rewrite summarize but but also all the little sub menus like rewrite this as a poem, rewrite this as

>> something shorter or whatever. um those

things are all going to respond quicker.

And um also that's an example of kind of a hybrid um AI thing because those types of functions are starting to be available if you have a co-pilot plus PC

in that SLM format where >> it will work offline, right? It doesn't

have cloud, etc. which, you know, I know there are privacy concerns and other reasons why someone might want like an SLM versus like a cloud-based LLM, but honestly, the offline thing is

the big one, right? Like, I mean, for most people, it just the fact that you have to be online for this to work is actually kind of crazy.

>> Yeah.

>> Um, but that's, you know, >> Yeah. creating a cloud dependency in

>> Yeah. creating a cloud dependency in Notepad will make people angry. Let's be

clear.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Um, and I was just I was just writing about this, but like the um let me think with the exception of one feature which has nothing to do with AI, you can actually

turn off all of the new stuff that's in Notepad, right? You can't revert it to

Notepad, right? You can't revert it to the old u you know wind32 style app frame.

Exactly. I mean, even though that app is actually hiding in Windows, um you can't turn off tabs, but you can go into settings and say, "Look, every single time I run this app, do not bring

anything back. Do not do the session

anything back. Do not do the session state thing." And also, when I open a

state thing." And also, when I open a new document, open in a new window, not in a new tab. So, if you like the old behavior where every text file was its own window, you can still do that. Like,

>> so I don't know. There's a lot of complaining but >> um but the big one uh I should say in the dev and beta, the biggest one perhaps was that >> uh this full screen experience thing for

Windows has escalated in a very strange way.

>> Um people had figured out how to get it basically on any PC. And so a couple weeks back or a month back, whatever it was, I put it on that Legion Goto that I have in Mexico that I just reviewed

because it's coming to it na you know naturally. And then the next week

naturally. And then the next week they're like, "Oh, we're just going to release it for all the gaming handhelds." Like, "Everyone's going to

handhelds." Like, "Everyone's going to get it." And you're like, "Okay, so I

get it." And you're like, "Okay, so I went through nothing." But now you can just add it to any if you're in the if you have a PC in the dev beta channel and once you get this update, you'll be

able to put it on any PC. So I don't know why most people would want that, but I suppose while you're if you think about it as sort of >> gaming thing,

>> it's a gaming thing, but like um a lot of I don't know. I can't speak for everyone, but I feel like a lot of people who game on a PC use the PC for other things, right? And so, you can go

in and out of game mode. It's actually

better if you reboot into game mode, and you know, it's even a little more efficient. But if you want to just go in

efficient. But if you want to just go in and out of it, um you you could you could make an argument this should just be automatic. Like Windows 10 had

be automatic. Like Windows 10 had something called game mode, which you couldn't really configure other than to check that it was on. And you might look at this full screen mode as kind of the game mode 2.0. 0 or whatever you want to

call it. And maybe this, you know, you

call it. And maybe this, you know, you run a game, it should just go into game mode right?

>> But but FSE is also only one of your screens, right? Like it doesn't take all

screens, right? Like it doesn't take all of the screens.

>> Um, one of your screens. You mean like if you have a multi-creen setup?

>> Yeah. You think about why do I still have a PC? It's cuz I have more than one screen on it.

>> Okay, fair enough.

>> I mean, I do that I do that to my laptop, too, but I'm a nut, right? like

you know >> the point is that FSE should take over a screen. So I still have another screen

screen. So I still have another screen for other activities.

>> It does do that. Um I I find look I I I haven't done this too much but I I gaming exclusively on the PC. One of the things I have noticed is that you know you're running unless you're running it in a window but most people are going to

run a game full screen, right? So you've

got whatever game full screen on whatever screen and then over here you might have a web browser or whatever it is and you could do other things. But

the truth is going back and forth between us is actually pretty terrible.

Like there's a real context shift to to the game when you're over here clicking in Edge or Chrome or whatever, the game is no longer to the game. It's like it's

hidden like it's not happening anymore, you know, and that can cause some problems as well. You could I think you can solve that just by running it in a window, but like what kind of a parasite would do that? I don't know. Um I

suppose someone might, but I I wouldn't.

But um but yeah, I the the dream is you I I have this computer. It's awesome.

Like I should be able to, you know, run Notion or a web browser, whatever it is, and then have the game full screen over here, and I should just be able to switch between them elegantly and not worry about it. But it's

>> No, I need a separate screen for all my cheat tools, like nice.

>> I'm going to be able to see what they're doing.

>> Yeah. Um Yeah. So I The other thing about the full screen experience is it's optimized for a controller. And I feel like on a gaming rig like a lot of those guys are just doing keyboard mouse.

They're not using a controller. That's

like >> Yeah.

>> You know, like I want to have like a >> normal PC ma >> it's that's normal PC master race behavior, right? But

behavior, right? But >> I think so. Um

>> the the analog joystick is simply a better way for some games, right? Like

you you drive better, fly better. Like a

lot of things are better with that. So

you have it there.

>> Yep. Yeah. I I I'm just used to playing on an Xbox controller, so that's what I do. But I I sort of recognize this isn't

do. But I I sort of recognize this isn't maybe the norm for much of the audience.

I don't know. But

>> anyway, >> uh I this was sort of like this almost esoteric thing and now it's like going to just be like a mainstream feature of Windows, which I think is kind of cool

because over time they can improve it and it I've already seen like frame rate improvements just by using it. Like it

actually does do something like it's good.

>> Um so yeah, we'll see. That's a That's kind of a That's kind of a nice change, I think.

>> Did Windows ever have a >> So, that's what they call a lean back experience right?

>> Winders ever have a lean back experience?

>> Yeah. The last one was media center, right?

>> Right. That's right.

>> Yeah. They used to call that the 10-ft experience because you had a remote, you know um >> it was more than just full screen though. It had big buttons and

though. It had big buttons and everything.

>> Yeah. It was you would have an IR blaster so you could use the remote control. And the problem with that

control. And the problem with that experience was it was still Windows so dialogues would pop up you know just you get a modal dialogue that you have to click okay on

>> well there's a whole little like the people who are like enthusiasts of this product and there were a bunch of them um would buy these little like Bluetooth keyboards had like an integrated track ball on it or whatever

>> you see them on coffee tables.

>> Yeah. So like, oh, oh, hold on. I got to deal with the, you know, the, you know, we would like contort ourselves to make it work uh in this world.

>> Well, the only reason I ask is I wonder if this is a preface to some sort of leanback experience, but I guess it's really just for gaming, right?

>> It's just for gaming. Yeah. Which I

think today is the I don't know if it's a 10-ft experience, but it's maybe a twoft experience or whatever it is depending on your setup.

>> In other words, don't lean too far back.

>> I mean, if it's a big enough screen, you can go as far back as you want, but >> I have a 55 in screen and that's what I game on and it's fantastic. But don't

you don't want to be too close to that.

You got to have >> Yeah. Oh, no. You need at least arms

>> Yeah. Oh, no. You need at least arms length. But don't most games have full

length. But don't most games have full screen. I mean,

screen. I mean, >> yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

>> yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

>> So, what is this for? This is for a full screen experience of notepad.

>> No, no, no, no. I mean, although you could do that. Um, no, it's not for that. It's for the game. It should be

that. It's for the game. It should be full screen. So, and the game and

full screen. So, and the game and everything around the game. So, if you use ex the Xbox app is like the launcher. It's sort of like the Xbox

launcher. It's sort of like the Xbox dashboard on a console. It's where you launch all your games from, including the games you might get from Steam or Epic or wherever else. There's the game bar. You know, you press that center lit

bar. You know, you press that center lit button on the controller and you get the the widgets and all the you can see the frame rate or record the screen or do whatever, you know, inter interact with your buddies on the social thing or

whatever, like whatever the features are there. And then you press out and you're

there. And then you press out and you're back in the game. Like it's all supposed to be full screen. Um, it's it's really just for games, but you can if you know keyboard shortcuts, you can run other

apps and those things also run full screen, which is kind of goofy, but at least but it's a PC, you still get them.

Like if you want to go to File Explorer and do something like share a file, you can do that. It works. Um, does it work great with a controller? I don't know that it works at all with a controller, but it probably works to some degree.

But, you know, they're trying to they're thinking through that stuff that didn't work on Media Center. It's like, okay, so how could we do this in a way that makes sense? Honestly, it's a big improvement.

sense? Honestly, it's a big improvement.

So, >> miss I missed Joe Biori, mind you.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He's retired.

>> Yeah, it happens.

>> Small town girl looking for >> He didn't seem that old. He's retired.

>> He was one of those Well, he was he's my age.

>> Kind of ageless, too.

>> Haircut.

>> He's one of those.

>> He's like He's one of those guys. He

just looks really young.

>> Haircut. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Good. God love

him. I mean,

>> oh, he was great.

>> Yeah.

>> Yep.

>> So, anyway, different era, but um yeah, the the focus is literally just on gaming and >> I full screen experience makes most sense using a controller. I think that's

part that's a big chunk of the point.

And um I you know, again, if you're using keyboard and mouse, it's like maybe you'll just do it to the uh it still works, right? So, I guess you would just do it for the get rid of the

background processes, get the more ramp and etc. Like it would has solve that problem.

>> You don't have one of those uh screen savers that turns uh turns everything like Christmassy or anything like that, do you? Is that what's going on?

do you? Is that what's going on?

>> Flying toasters.

>> Flying toasters in the background.

>> No, that's not part of it. Uh

>> every Snapdragon comes with flying toasters. I don't know what you're

toasters. I don't know what you're talking about.

>> This one comes with a fan and a heater.

It's like a space heater. I don't know what's >> I think it's just getting busy and uh there's nothing much we can do.

>> Yeah, but it's so weirdly cyclic, >> isn't it? It's it's I mean it's periodic, right? I I should time it.

periodic, right? I I should time it.

>> But it's not a consistent period. I have

every 20 minutes, >> is it?

>> I'm sorry.

>> Well, I'm going to take a break now and uh and watch watch for a communication from your producer and see if he tells you to do anything because I don't know what to do.

>> Okay. Uh, I'm meanwhile I've got somebody outside with a ditch witch and uh you can I don't know if you can hear it when I'm talking and maybe you can't.

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Thank you, Cashfly. Now, let's try it again. First, I'm going to put Paul in

again. First, I'm going to put Paul in the middle >> because Paul belongs in the middle.

Paul, it's like a Paul sandwich and then uh we'll just see how it goes as we move on to talk about earnings learnings.

You're sorry.

>> Indeed.

>> Indeed.

>> Yeah. Because my life is a living hell and this will never end. Uh Lenovo, HP, and Dell have all now announced their earnings. Um two of those companies have

earnings. Um two of those companies have big cloud infrastructure AI things going on that kind of color this a little bit.

So, I'm just going to a I'm going to skip right over a lot of it, but I'll just focus on the PC maker stuff. So,

Lenovo, biggest PC maker in the world, actually extended their lead in this quarter. Their PC business is up 12%

quarter. Their PC business is up 12% year-over-year to 15 Wow.1 billion.

>> They're doing pretty good. They

basically own about 26% of the market.

Um, uh, HP is doing pretty good. Um, 14.6

billion in revenues. Uh, um, that might be the whole business actually. Well,

they're mostly Uh they make PCs and they make printers.

Printers are circling the drain. Thank

God. Uh

>> well and have been for decades, right?

They >> So that one's like every quarter.

>> They blame themselves for that. They did

that.

>> Yep. Yep. And uh and they also did the thing where they, you know, limited their printers to only using HP ink. And

you know, we can talk about that, but >> uh but okay. Um they're actually going to cut another four to 6 thousand jobs over the next two to three years. Um,

and they said those words everyone wants to hear in an earnings call, which is we're going to replace them with AI.

>> Okay, good luck with that. Um, and then Dell is doing great as a business, but it's because of their cloud infrastructure AI stuff. So, uh, their

PC business was up 3%. And, um,

>> so this is all bubble. This is all AI bubble growth. This is we're building a

bubble growth. This is we're building a lot of data centers. We've got a lot of orders for gear whether we have them or not.

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's floating all ships basically except for HP ship because they split that company up. Now the the infrastructure part of it is a different company. So that's just kind of how that

company. So that's just kind of how that goes down. Um but yeah, from a revenue

goes down. Um but yeah, from a revenue perspective, you know, Lenovo, I put it wrong in the notes, I guess, but Lenovo, HP, Dell, they're all within striking distance of each other revenue-wise. Um

their businesses break up a little bit differently. Um Dell is very heavily

differently. Um Dell is very heavily consumer, sorry, commercial focused.

>> Um HP is more evenly mixed. I think I don't remember Lenovo, but they're probably more.

>> Is that just the printers or is it really their machine sales are more >> just PCs specifically? Yeah. Yeah,

>> that's interesting.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Dell is like I don't remember the exact numbers. It's in the article, but it's uh I bet 80 to 90% of their PC revenues are commercial PCs, not consumer PCs.

Uh but you know, they just rebranded to be terrible. So, I don't know why no

be terrible. So, I don't know why no consumer would ever look at Dell and be like, "Fun." Hey, hey. Um,

like, "Fun." Hey, hey. Um,

>> and the crazy part is how much fun Lenovo seems to be having with their machines. Like, they just build really

machines. Like, they just build really crazy.

>> Yeah, this is the I I appreciate companies doing this. HP used to be really big on this. They're not as big anymore with the experimentation stuff,

but they still um Okay, just sorry, my notion thing just scrolled in now. will

not res-croll. Here we go. Uh, wow,

that's acting very strange. Anywh who,

um, yeah, but Dell, rather Lenovo now seems to be like big and just we're going to try new stuff and see how it goes. And

goes. And I like it. I like what they're doing.

This thing is notion is not working good. Let me try this again. I don't

good. Let me try this again. I don't

know what's going on here.

Usually don't have problems with notion, but yep, >> you know, it's a new day, I guess. Yeah,

it's just not >> one of those kinds of days. Welcome back

to Pennsylvania. Random things don't work. Yep. All right. Well, I'll just

work. Yep. All right. Well, I'll just look this up manually like a like a peasant. Uh,

peasant. Uh, so I don't know. Yesterday, I think the day before, whatever it was, two days ago, um, Microsoft released a new SLM, like a local small machine model. Um,

>> small language model. Yeah,

>> small language model. This one is a little different though, right? And so

it it a bunch of keywords in here, but you know, it's agentic. It's an agentic small language model. Um, but it's for computer use. And this is that interim

computer use. And this is that interim thing where the mouse cursor moves around and buttons get clicked. It knows

that like understand the screen and what it could do there etc. Like if you've done any of the early agentic browser stuff you've done something probably where either in the browser itself or

maybe in like a window inside the browser which I think is how is it Microsoft that does it that way or one of the companies does it that way. it it

like you know little mouse cursor moves it's like the computer's using the mouse it's or using the computer or whatever it's kind of crazy so they call this a computer use model so it's a it's a

gentic I I see this as a an interim step I don't think this is the um endgame but the idea is this thing has been trained specifically to uh use your mouse and

keyboard and you know complete tasks on your behalf we're never going to stop using this um and uh Microsoft has recommendations about how it can be used. They recommendation is we're

used. They recommendation is we're keeping it secure, by the way, because this thing is still kind of experimental. Do not give it your credit

experimental. Do not give it your credit card number and let it go off and do not do that. But, you know, sandboxing,

do that. But, you know, sandboxing, however, >> even if I did, would it know what to do with it?

>> I Yeah, I don't know. Um I'm just fascinated that we're starting to kind of do this thing. So, if you don't have a C-pilot Plus PC, you can go to the Microsoft Foundry, you can go to Hugging Face, you know, there's all these

different ways to interact with local models. uh it will use the CPU or GPU if

models. uh it will use the CPU or GPU if that's what you have. But if you do have a copilot plus PC um it can use the MPU and you can access that through those other ways too. But also AI toolkit in

which is now part of Visual Studio Code.

>> Mhm.

>> Um which is kind of the way I've done a lot of stuff. Although I am looking at that AI dev gallery that I mentioned that's kind of a little friendlier way

to do it. Um chat GBT those jerks. Um,

I've always done like kind of Mac first, you know, mobile first in some cases.

Uh, but they did in this past week come out with a new codeex max coding model that is specifically designed for Windows, right? In other words, it's the

Windows, right? In other words, it's the and it's actually I should say it's the first of their I don't think it's the first of their models, but it's their the first of

their agentic coding models trained to operate in Windows. And I

>> yeah, I believe that the distinction there is that it will better understand the types of tools that people using Windows would be using. Um

>> yeah, I'm you're presuming consistency that doesn't exist.

>> I know. I know. I know.

>> Um but yeah, it's um again, lots of new terms here. Compaction.

terms here. Compaction.

Um but it's a soc we know about Codex.

This is Codex Max. It's

>> I believe you have to have Yeah, you have to have a paying subscription for now. you know the way open AI works

now. you know the way open AI works eventually will come to everybody um with limits but for now you have to have like a plus pro business whatever um

will be API access at some point etc etc um but yeah this was trained to operate in windows so it's you know we're this is another one of those things where we're kind of interacting with the computer I don't think this thing is

moving the mouse cursor around but the idea is that it will uh understands the file system and understands the document types we have in Windows etc it can run commands etc etc I think if I remember correctly, Codeex

is the original code name for GitHub Copilot >> back in the day, too.

>> Okay, that's interesting.

>> It's funny to see this name come back around again. It gives me the

around again. It gives me the heebie-jebies.

>> Mhm.

>> Was um Codeex the or I should say was the original version of GitHub Copilot exclusively. It must be right. Chat GPT

exclusively. It must be right. Chat GPT

based.

>> Yeah, it was originally on GPT3 >> would be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Right. So they're they're ahead of chat GBT because they used the original models of three >> um which were not that good like they were really struggling that that's when openai was maturing the second order

training model >> that that led to chat GPT but you know the GitHub guys had a good vision which is hey if we narrow the scope here if we just focus on programming languages maybe we'll have fewer problems and they

did they really did but it's a it's a crazy long time ago Paul that's like three years ago >> years ago yeah three years ago Yeah, three years ago.

>> I know. I Who can remember that far back? Um

back? Um >> I know I'm >> Yeah.

>> People keep telling me about my haircut and I'm like, "Well, isn't that like a 3 weeks ago?" I'm like, "No, no, it was

weeks ago?" I'm like, "No, no, it was last week that I was in New Zealand."

Actually, it's just, you know, >> hard to believe, isn't it?

>> Last week and 18,000 miles later. Not

that anymore.

>> I' I've been down here a month. Like,

we're flying back tomorrow.

>> No, don't come home. Stay there.

>> No, I'm going to Next show will be in Lithuania. I promise. Oh, I just I just

Lithuania. I promise. Oh, I just I just I'm just jealous. I wish I were there. I

just I love >> I'm getting a taste of an extra summertime. It's like zero degrees back

summertime. It's like zero degrees back home.

>> Yeah.

>> I wonder, you know, this would be a good way to be a snowbird. Go to Australia in the winter.

>> Just live summer to summer.

>> Yeah, that's Wasn't that the movie Endless Summer? They just followed the

Endless Summer? They just followed the summer and surfed nonstop, >> right?

>> Nonstop.

>> Um, all right. I'm sorry. I lost track.

Where are we? What are we >> banana pro doing here?

>> Which playing with it's astonishing.

>> It's unbelievable.

>> Unbelievably good. I only mentioned it because I feel like there's some people are still like oh Google's losing it and it's like you might want to start paying attention to this one. Like

>> the Nano Banana Pro stuff is like yikes.

Like it's yikes.

>> And um I guess I misunderstood this. I

when they first came out with this, I thought it was specifically about um taking a still image and making a video out of it, but >> Mhm.

>> it's actually also just image generation, general image generation.

It's it's rather incredible.

>> In fact, the big the only big complaint I've seen about it is it might be a little too realistic. It's like

>> this thing's working really good. Um

>> well, and this Gemini 3 is also really really good.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> I mean, uh Google has been sandbagging us, I think.

>> Right. No, I think they really poured some energy into it. I would argue the biggest thing they did right with Gemini 3 is actually hired some PR people to properly promote it because they they have been botching this not out of that.

But this what this time they had the influencers involved like they did all the things to make it show in its best light. It helps that it also is pretty

light. It helps that it also is pretty darn good.

>> It's really good. Yeah. And I that's the thing like I Yeah. Yeah, the narratives thus far has been like they've been facer rigging it since Microsoft came out with co-pilot but it's like well >> yeah I don't know they invented a lot of

the stuff remember you know like >> but even even in that Sydney Bard days >> when you actually took away the drama and counted the errors and mistakes and

both of them were having problems >> it's just that I think Microsoft handled the PR well and we were ignoring them and Google wasn't and we caught every one of them >> and and to me that's just like it's

tough to strip away. You've got to the power of the polish matters here.

>> And and it's because actually measuring the quality of these things not that easy.

>> I don't remember if I said this last week, but when you people >> Sorry, >> I made a Lord of the Rings map out of this show.

>> Okay.

>> With Nano Banana Pro.

>> Oh boy. This is the type of thing it's really good at. So,

>> it's really good at infographics, which this is not a good example of, but >> no, but it's >> look at that.

>> I just pasted the the notion uh out >> is rolling in a grave right now, but you know, uh wow.

>> And look at that. Run his radio Christmas gifts. Get ready, kids. This

Christmas gifts. Get ready, kids. This

is exciting.

>> Oh, don't look it down in the corner.

Although, this is this is it talking about itself.

>> Google's lead. This is really uh And here's like the the results you just did in Hardware Islands.

>> And it did that in a in like 20 seconds.

>> I know that's crazy.

>> Darren says one of the things he likes to do with it is uh use Claude uh code to get an assessment of the code and then feed the assessment into Nano Banana Pro to do an infographic. And he

says it's amazing. I love it. It's

amazing.

I'm uh I'm enjoying uh the uh the AI life, I got to tell you.

>> Yeah, Google's had a nice little comeback here. Um

comeback here. Um >> by the way, they released four or five this, you know, a few days later. We're

in a race right now.

>> That's the thing I don't There's no version of this where one week we're like, "Yep, we have a winner." It's

like, "We have a winner now." Like, give it a week. Like, it's going to be different.

>> It reminds me of like 2011 Browser Wars, right? with uh IE9 and those versions of

right? with uh IE9 and those versions of Chrome and just the emergence of JavaScript in full force and starting to do render engines like just every

>> release you were a how much better it got and how much better it got. And now

we're in this like these guys are starting to figure out what we're actually using it for and making sure it get it does that better.

>> It does that good. Yeah, exactly. It's

just worth looking at if you haven't seen like I just feel like some people out there like ah I've had a little AI fatigue. I'm sure this is great. Like I

fatigue. I'm sure this is great. Like I

don't think I don't think the other thing is like Google has done an amazing job of getting this stuff and by this stuff I mean whatever their AI thing is at the time >> into every one of their products and

services as quickly as possible. It's

incredible. And even like a third party partner like Adobe which is using now will let lets you use in addition to their Firefly models third party models already has Nano Banana Pro and Gemini 3

available. So if you're paying Adobe a

available. So if you're paying Adobe a lot of money every month um you can use it there too. So it's it's kind of it's in Google Photos, it's in Notepad

Notebook LM. It's it's everywhere. It's

Notebook LM. It's it's everywhere. It's

like everywhere. It's unbelievable. So

um yeah, it's pretty cool. And then I I usually just use Microsoft designer. In

fact, I I don't think about it that much. But this is obviously the co-pilot

much. But this is obviously the co-pilot based image generation stuff, which you know has gotten better over time too.

But I was doing some of this like the thing the graphic Leo made is a great example actually just that kind of look and feel like that infographic look >> is uh that's the first time I've been

like I got to figure out a way to how I could use this. Like I really like I just like the style, you know? Like I

have map we have a that eternal spring book I have with my wife. we have maps of, you know, Mexico City that are based on Google Maps and like they're okay, you know, but I was like, "Oh, we could make a Tolken map out of this." Like

that would be kind of fun, you know, or whatever. Like I'd like to I'm going to

whatever. Like I'd like to I'm going to I'm going to start >> Yeah, you can. I mean, it's I mean, but it it's almost feel like I'm not creative enough to use it, right? It's

like, oh, I'm just doing more Tolken maps. There's so many things here.

maps. There's so many things here.

>> I don't know why you need anything other than a Tolken map, but that's okay. Um,

that's what good to me. I like it.

>> It's pretty um >> pretty amazing.

>> This is not related to AI. Uh, but I just didn't know where to put this. I

just wanted to mention this. It's not

really directly in our sphere, but Google the other day announced that, uh, they're extending quick share, which is the capability in Android and I guess on Chrome OS as well to support AirDrop on

Apple devices, which is humongous, right? And so

right? And so >> they have uh Microsoft has their nearby sharing functionality. Works with PCs.

sharing functionality. Works with PCs.

If you have a phone that works this way with phone link, you can do sort of some sharing between the like you copy files back and forth. That works too. Um but

this ability to basically share directly to another device. So

Google added Windows support at some point. They added Windows and ARM

point. They added Windows and ARM support at some point. Obviously, it

works with Chromebooks, but now it works with AirDrop, which means it works with every single Apple device uh in the world. You have to have a Pixel right

world. You have to have a Pixel right now. It's kind of slowly rolling out,

now. It's kind of slowly rolling out, but it's coming to Android. And uh and I'll just be that guy because I'm like, a this is awesome. We need this. This

happened, by the way, because the EU forced Apple to open up and use a standard Wi-Fi uh or Wi-Fi stand their own stuff. So, now Oh, uh

interoperability. Isn't that nice? Um,

interoperability. Isn't that nice? Um,

it it doesn't impact iPhone at all. Like

it's there's no reverse engineering.

There's no nothing, no hack, no anything to install. Just works like

to install. Just works like Yep. And I I don't know why anyone would

Yep. And I I don't know why anyone would complain about that. But now I'm like, could you do this with AirPlay too, please? Like please. Like cuz the Google

please? Like please. Like cuz the Google stuff is garbage and I would give anything to have AirPlay compatibility like natively in Android. Like that

would be amazing. Um, but anyway, this is a nice first step. It's not really a complaint, but um, yeah. So, that's

happening, I guess.

>> It's cool.

>> That's really good news. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's neat.

>> But when it first was announced, a lot of people like, "Oh, what do they are they, you know, Google's like reverse engineering?" It's like, no.

engineering?" It's like, no.

>> No, it's a standard.

>> How do you like that?

>> Yeah.

>> And of course, Apple went kicking and screaming to the standard.

>> Sure.

>> Yeah. Oh, they didn't just embrace it immediately and say their values are all just weird. They're usually better about

just weird. They're usually better about that stuff.

>> And there's some question whether they will do anything to break this, but I don't see how they can.

>> So terrible. And why? Yeah, exactly.

>> And why? Well, because they don't want people to go to Android. That's why.

>> Yeah, sure. But that's not really what this is, right? There's a reality of the world where bunch of people use Android, bunch of people use Apple stuff, and the Apple answer is always like, "Well, just

get another Apple device. will be fine.

That's cute. But

>> I I got to tell you, with this trip and renting a few different cars and so forth, every time we try and make Android Auto work at another rental car, it is hell.

>> Like it's worked like one in three times. You know what's worked every

times. You know what's worked every single time.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> The the iPhone just click click booms. Yeah. It's going to work the first time

Yeah. It's going to work the first time or it's never going to work. One or the other.

>> Right.

>> But I mean Yeah.

>> But there's Yeah. Uh, I think the three vehicles, AirPlays worked on all of them and Android Autos worked once, >> right?

>> It's uh it's the first time I felt like I want an iPhone.

>> Yeah.

>> Just been, you know, >> I for me it's >> Does your wife have an iPhone? How is it that you're able to >> My son-in-law, >> he's traveling with us with the baby.

>> Aren't you glad? But it's the thing.

It's like two different Pixels and an S28 >> and can't get any of them in this particular car. Yeah.

particular car. Yeah.

>> So, oh comes the iPhone and All right, we're done.

>> Yeah.

>> Wow.

>> Well, there's something to be said for it just works, you know.

>> Well, and see this is the power of the walled garden, right? That's exactly one way.

>> The vendors can't mess it up. So, there

you go.

>> And as long as you can get people to cooperate and when you have the scale that Apple has, you can.

>> I mean, Android sort of works. I don't

know. Sometimes something why you have to have such high standards. I um

I don't know.

They mean well. Okay. Okay. They're

trying.

>> They're so cute.

>> Look, it's like I'm just glad it's not Microsoft floundering like this. You

know, normally it' be Microsoft doing the Windows Phone thing. That would be terrible.

>> Yeah.

>> And then, you know.

>> Yeah.

>> Now it's all right. Android.

>> Are we taking a break?

>> Oh, for Xbox.

>> I'm sorry. I was wondering what you were you were pausing. I could tell I should have known. I felt the I felt the

have known. I felt the I felt the >> You felt the gravity >> slow down the gravity. It was like Leo Leo, you want to do something?

I do. I want to say you're watching Windows Weekly with the wonderful Paul Through and the lovely Richard Campbell.

And we are so glad you're here.

Now, it's time for the Xbox S. We've all

been waiting, Paulie. Indeed. I gota I'm trying to find the live chat again. I

just clicked in Discord and I'm like where?

It's in here somewhere.

Uh that might be it. There we go. Okay.

God, there's something just not working on this monitor. So, Discord is >> You should send that uh develop machine back to me. I think

>> this is something going on here. I It's

so weird.

So, Discord I might have an infinite scroll. Uh, meaning you can go back as

scroll. Uh, meaning you can go back as far as it goes back. And if it does, it's never going to stop scrolling. It

just keeps going. It's like going back up.

>> I'll let that go.

>> Hey, I I do like that thousandth episode mug in your backdrop there.

>> Thank and I thank you for sending that.

Um, >> couldn't have done it without you, man.

>> I mean, you could have actually, but I appreciate that you didn't. Um, yeah.

So there's >> it's up there now. Um, yeah. So, Xbox.

Yes, there's some stuff going on and uh most of it's pretty good. Um today

Microsoft announced that uh Xbox Cloud Gaming, which no longer is a beta after literally 6 years, by the way. Um gaming

usage of this service is up 45% year-over-year. I mean, that's not that

year-over-year. I mean, that's not that hard. Remember, it used to be exclusive

hard. Remember, it used to be exclusive to Xbox Game Pass Ultimate. Now, some

version of it is available in all the Xbox Game Pass tiers. So, people are actually using it, right? So, you know, 45% of a very small number is probably

still a very small number, but uh it is available worldwide, etc. Um, if you are paying for Xbox Game Pass Ultimate, my apologies. Good luck with that. Um, but

apologies. Good luck with that. Um, but

you can now get up to 1440p streaming quality on some games. I think it's like 40ish games. They're going to improve

40ish games. They're going to improve that over time, obviously. Um, I assume the >> This is a bandwidth and latency constraint problem, right? I know. I

don't >> It ain't up to you, per se. It's like

what pipe have you got to go into your house that we have any chance to haul that much data to you?

>> Yeah. I mean, even in this place, which is not a big place, um we have like three Wi-Fi nodes like Ero 6E or whatever.

>> And when I play online, I still connect to a wire, you know, just to just to help with latency. I mean, what are you going to do? But I mean, that's just it's basic reality. So, your mileage may

vary. You might have a better

vary. You might have a better >> I Oh, by the way, I did refit the farm with Ubiquiti before I left.

>> Oh, nice. Okay,

>> that was a that's a gift.

>> Very nice of you.

>> Well, he visits, so he's like, you know, actually, I kind of it's a benefit for me too.

>> I want uh some bandwidth. Do you mind?

Do they have good uh good internet?

>> Yeah, they've got fiber into the into the into the farm, but >> they should have ubiquity.

>> The real access points you put in >> I put in I just put in a pair. It's not

that big of a place, but the real plan is to is I'm going to pull out a microwave relay and fire it down to the milkshed.

>> I was going to say the milking barn needs its ownity.

>> Well, what it needs is a live cam. So,

let's >> once you get the connectivity, the camera will fall.

>> The camera will suck it all.

>> Uh, yes. The game.

>> I love that idea. It's very funny to see my cousins talking IoT things about instrumenting cows and I'm like, "Ah, finally speaking my language, something I can relate to."

>> We have a policy for some of the cows.

You're like, "Nice. Here we go.

>> Here we go."

>> Um, and then we got this one already.

Oh, and then tied to the 1440p deal is um they're going to support per game resolution configuration by the user.

So, you can kind of tailor each game.

And 1080p is pretty much what you, you know, like just auto up to 1080p, but you could set it to 1080p or 720p or if

you have um ultimate um 1040p, which is like max max quality for now. Um so,

yeah. Okay. Um I don't know, just the games I play, this is never going to be acceptable. I don't know. Um and then in

acceptable. I don't know. Um and then in addition to the full screen experience stuff which debuted on the ROG Xbox ally gaming handhelds um they're doing um only on those

devices for now but I think this will spread across all PC is the ability to have uh game profiles as well. So per

game profile so not just the resolution but just an actual profile for a like this is not for streaming games this is for all games. So, um, you might say something like, I the game profile is, I

want this thing to always run at 60 frames per second at the exclusion of everything else. So, you could just say

everything else. So, you could just say that you could configure that and it would, you know, kill your battery life.

It would, you know, do all the other stuff it has to do, kill everything else in the background, whatever it is to make sure this thing runs as well as it can and possibly gets to that target that you've set. Um, so yeah, I mean,

that's that seems like a pretty good idea. I like that kind of thing. Um, and

idea. I like that kind of thing. Um, and

then a couple of these are kind of a little on the outside, but this one's at least Microsoft uh, in keeping with their ongoing kind of um, technology preservation efforts. There's always

preservation efforts. There's always like a Scott Hansselman angle to these things like the Commodore 64 stuff and everything. Um,

everything. Um, >> he's all in on that new 64. Like he's

sitting on the board like >> Yeah, he's going to be like writing like software for this thing and you know, sell it. It's amazing. So that when I

sell it. It's amazing. So that when I get him on stage, inevitably that's what he pulls out. He But he's been running around with that mini alter everywhere lately. I even to Ignite.

lately. I even to Ignite.

>> I love I love how laser focused he is on the past like this kind of stuff cuz I actually I care about this stuff too. I

think it's >> well I don't know if you've seen that new keynote of his where he talks about these were the promises were made like where are they?

>> Yeah.

>> It's really profound. I love the way he talks about that. It's great.

>> Yeah. So

>> me meantime the zorks.

>> Yeah. So follow you can kind of follow the progression on this. If you if you're familiar with the history of our industry, you know that like Colossal Cave at Cave Adventure Adventure essentially was a PDP10 game. This is

the you know there's a parser and you type text and if you get it right it does things. If you get it wrong it says

does things. If you get it wrong it says you were written by a grew whatever. So

the guys that made Zor there were three four of them were obviously inspired by this. The original ver I didn't know

this. The original ver I didn't know this but the original version of Zor was actually released on the PDP is 10 PDP10 as well you know because it was of that era like the mid to late '7s.

>> Well because the its predecessor Colossal K was a PDP game so they >> Right. Right. I knew that's where the

>> Right. Right. I knew that's where the market was.

>> I didn't know that at the like I never knew that until now. To me, the thing about Zor that's interesting is these were some of the first big games that ever came out on like what we called microcomputers at the time, personal

computers, meaning the comeer 64, the Ataris, the Apples, the IBM PC when that arrived etc. >> Um, these were, you know, textbased games, right? Obviously, um, huge

games, right? Obviously, um, huge successes. I mean, by the time the third

successes. I mean, by the time the third one landed, they were selling like millions of these things.

>> Yeah. Um they were, you know, in my life, like I I have very specific memories of things like um the Sierra Quest games that were graphical games, but were essentially this type of game,

but just with the graphic kind of thing happening, but that there was also like interim games like one I remember was called Pal I think it was Palanteer, but it was like a a Zork type game, but it was just be like still images, right?

So, as you went from place to place, it might throw up an image of the area or something that was kind of cool. But

these were just text.

>> Yeah.

>> And all two-word commands.

>> Yeah.

>> Right. Go west.

>> Yeah.

>> Take lantern.

Verb noun. Verb noun.

>> And they were available on everything.

Everything that was available at the time. And uh they and they had other

time. And uh they and they had other there wasn't just Zor, obviously. They

did a bunch of successful games and FCOM did, but um they were bought by what company in 1986? Activision. And

>> Activision has retained the ownership of this company ever since then. So

Microsoft owns it now.

>> So there was a there was a guy who was a uh >> That's interesting.

>> Yeah. So, so this guy was like kind of um I I don't think he was on the InfoCcom like team, but at some point this guy actually put the source code to

all of the um InfoCcom games up on GitHub. And there were questions about

GitHub. And there were questions about the licensing. It was like wasn't really

the licensing. It was like wasn't really clear if this was okay, but Activision never pulled them down. You can that's it's still all there. And I think these are like the Z machine uh like the Xylo,

you know, Z80 based um chip uh computers that were kind of big in Europe but not really in the United States. Um I think that's the version that is available. U

but now that Microsoft owns it, they're like well there are no questions now and they put it I think it's an MIT license.

They're like yep it's all legal. Don't

worry about it. So it's all good.

>> Nice.

>> And they have um instructions if you want to run the original code. There's

all these emulators that do all this stuff and uh and you can you can just run the game. It's fine. You can still buy them, by the way, if you want to buy Zor. I think the Zor anthology, which is

Zor. I think the Zor anthology, which is these three games and a couple of others, is possibly $5 like on uh gogg.com if you want to buy them, you know, and get, you know, images. And

>> it's actually an interesting story here because I'm going to bet this is the first game made with a game engine.

So they wrote this uh Mark Blank wrote this >> you know when he was at MIT >> and as you said wrote it for PDP. So

they had to to get it to run on a Z80 instead of rewriting the adventure. They had the adventure

the adventure. They had the adventure was separate in a text file and they just made what they called the Z machine which >> oh I'm sorry. Oh I'm excuse me. So the Z machine is not a dialogue based thing.

It's it's their little >> interpreter. It's a virtual machine. So,

>> interpreter. It's a virtual machine. So,

in a way, it's the first game engine.

>> Oh, I got you. Okay.

>> And then, but what's cool about that is all of So, I think all of the adventures from Infocom, you can get the Infocom >> data files, >> but you all you have to do is create a Z

machine for whatever platform, which there are many. And the the Microsoft Post talks about one of those things where you can just use it. Okay. Oh, I

see. That makes sense. So in other words, it was the same game running on a Commodore 64 or an Apple or whatever.

>> Exactly. The text was exactly the same >> because Yeah. They just needed to write the >> wrote a Z machine for it.

>> Z machine. Uh yeah.

>> In fact, there is a whole interactive fiction >> culture now of stuff written for the interpreter.

>> Right. Of course. I love it.

>> Yeah. So it's really it's very interesting.

>> Do we do we throw an LLM into this? Does

it make the game better?

>> You can. In fact, I know people do use LLMs to play mods or or text adventure.

>> Microsoft has promised they have no plans to improve these games.

>> They shouldn't.

>> No, no, this is preservation.

>> Yeah.

>> Like I like that they're doing that.

Okay. That's that makes it even more.

>> Yeah.

>> It's a work of art. Really?

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> It is. You're right. It is just preferred preserving art. And

>> yeah, >> and the best graphics are the ones that are inside your head.

1981 or whatever year this was. Yeah,

>> I play Oh, man. I played So, I played the original Colossal Cave that this was based on >> uh a friend. It was on CompuServe.

>> Mhm.

>> And uh originally just called Adventure.

>> Yeah. Right.

>> And and then there was the 51 point adventure and then there was the Colossal, but it was on copy serve and copy serve was paid by the minute. Yeah.

>> So, I couldn't play it as much as I wanted to, but I had a friend who worked at Atari who gave me the Atari account, which had unlimited >> Oh, that's amazing.

>> I spent many hours drawing maps, doing the whole thing.

>> Oh, exactly. I used to do this with video games all the time. I have a I still have handdrawn maps from >> Yeah. Do you still have them?

>> Yeah. Do you still have them?

>> Wow.

>> Yeah. Oh, yeah.

>> Yep.

>> Now you can feed it to to a n banana and you can make a nice infographic out of it, you know. Exactly. Huh. I might

actually do that at this.

>> That's a great idea. I love it.

>> Interesting. Interesting. Okay. H. And

then, excuse me, a little further outside uh of Microsoft. Um, Google and Nvidia have partnered to bring GeForce Now Fastpass to Chrome new Chromebook

and Chromebook Plus buyers. So, remember

Google had Stadia and then they didn't.

So, you know, we're not going to well, we're not going to see too much in the way of like native games that run on a Chromebook. Obviously, you can have

Chromebook. Obviously, you can have Android games and then I suppose there could be some world of web kind of something games, but uh game streaming is kind of the bigger deal. And so,

you'll get a year of this service. So,

GeForce Now is obviously, well, maybe not obviously, but it's Nvidia's game streaming service. There are different

streaming service. There are different tiers. Um, and this is one where you

tiers. Um, and this is one where you could you get pretty good quality and you get in pretty quick and it's it's not a it's not like unlimited, but it's,

you know, 10 hours of adree gaming with priority access to the queue every month for one year. So, and up to five hours rolling over if you don't use them. So,

that's kind of nice.

>> Yeah, it's good.

So, there you go.

>> All right.

>> Very nice, gentlemen. Oh, I never did the what?

>> I meant to have another epic. It's all

right. I have too many picks.

>> You got time because I'm going to tell everybody why they should join Club Twit right now. Okay. So, please be my guest.

right now. Okay. So, please be my guest.

If you want to add an app pick, go right ahead.

But meanwhile, folks, it's that time of year, the most wonderful time of year when you want to give generously from your heart to the people who make the biggest difference.

Sure, there's the girl scout ringing the bell at the grocery store for the Salvation Army or I'm confusing cookies.

And anyway, there's a Santa Claus on the corner who's who's got a, you know, a kettle and all of those are important, but I would hope that you would also consider

supporting this fine institution that we call Twit, our club. We call it a first of all, it's not taxdeductible. So, I

want to make that very clear because we are not a nonprofit. But when you support us, you encourage more programming. You encourage us to

programming. You encourage us to continue the programming we're doing.

And it's really important to us. 25% of

our operating costs come from the club.

And as you know, 2026 plays out, I suspect that number is going to go up.

It's going to have to.

Uh, and that means you need to join if you will. We're making it easy. We've

you will. We're making it easy. We've

got a great coupon on the site through Christmas Day for 10% off the annual plan. That's a big savings, more than a

plan. That's a big savings, more than a month off.

Um, there's also a two-month two week free trial so you can get an idea of what it's like. 10 bucks a month gets you ad free versions of all the shows.

You get your own feed for every show.

You get access to the Club Twit Discord, which is a really great place uh to hang out. Um, I I spend a lot of time in the

out. Um, I I spend a lot of time in the club uh Twit Discord, even not during shows, because uh these are great people in here. the kind of people you kind of

in here. the kind of people you kind of want to hang out in uh with uh and not just talking about the shows, but all the things geeks talk about.

A lot of AI stuff. We have an AI user group once a month on the first Friday of every month.

I love the ads Joe Espazito makes for us. He doesn't do this with AI, by the

us. He doesn't do this with AI, by the way. He does it with Photoshop. He's

way. He does it with Photoshop. He's

he's a Photoshop wizard. Uh

uh you could talk about all sorts of geeky stuff. We also do special content

geeky stuff. We also do special content in the club. Uh let's see. We've got six events scheduled. The AI user group is

events scheduled. The AI user group is this Oh, we're going to do it Thursday.

Okay. So, it's this Thursday, a week from uh Thanksgiving week from tomorrow, December 4th. Um we also uh have uh

December 4th. Um we also uh have uh Stacy's book club, photo time with Chris Markwart, the home of theater geeks recordings, Micah's Crafting Corner, many other events. We'll probably do

another DND soon. That was a lot of fun with Hammmer Bland, Mr. Paul Throat. Uh,

come on, go into the club twit.tv/club

twit. If you like what you hear on on Twitter and you want to hear more and you want to support what we're doing, um, we'd love to have you in the club twit.tvclub

twit.tvclub twit. And thanks in advance. Now we

twit. And thanks in advance. Now we

return to the programming already in progress.

Let us get Mr. Paul Thorat in here.

We've got whiskey coming up.

>> Paul's going to start with the tip of the week.

>> Yeah, I was uh this was my chance to use the nano banana uh image generation thing, but the the real point of this was just that um >> I like this. What is this demonstrating

here? the the graphic or the

here? the the graphic or the >> the graphic. Yeah,

>> it's just a teacher. You It's an expert.

>> It's an expert >> wrapped students.

>> You know what's amazing though? It

wasn't so long ago that you would ask for something and the maps would be this these are actual maps. You know, the maps are real and their work and the text works and the there's five fingers

on every hand. I mean, it's just we've come so long, so far, so fast. It's

really amazing.

>> It's rather crazy. I Yeah. So, I I've been trying to, you know, look, in my own little field, I guess I'm sort of an expert in certain things. Um, but it occurred to me that, you know, I still

need help myself, right? And like, where do you go for help? It's it's

interesting that, you know, back in the day, we had people like, you know, Julia Childs or Rick Steves, like if you're into European travel, but as you step into technology, like um our world has changed a lot. Like in our industry, the

experts are always like the guys writing books, you know, or they were writing in magazines and everything. And the truth is like I I wrote for what was originally called Windows NT Magazine.

And one of the big problems back then wasn't finding experts. It was finding experts who could also communicate really effectively, right? Like that's a

that's actually a like a real skill, you know? Um, and finding someone who can do

know? Um, and finding someone who can do like just is a genius at something but then can communicate it to normal people is like very rare. Um, and I had the

privilege or the damnation to work with people like Mark Manasse who was kind of a triple threat in that way. Great

writer, great speaker, content, you know, genius like expert, just amazing.

But it's like like who are these people?

like who are people like I like I look up to and trust you know that kind of thing and um I'm trying to figure out things like um uh smartphone uh you know videos and like all the different

formats and how that stuff works and all this you know and I'm these days I'm not there's no book you know like you have to go it's the YouTube it's you know it's going to be online and >> but the beauty of that is despite the

fact there's a lot of bad information.

Oh, there's a lot of bad.

>> There's an infinite, but there's so much and there's nothing you can't find out.

By the way, Anthony asked Nano Banana to fix your lighting. And I think it's done quite a nice job.

>> That's actually really nice.

>> I know. Look at that. You look a little sad.

>> But other than that, >> that's good.

>> That's impressive, isn't it?

>> Is there actually a light thing?

>> It's worth doing a little Good.

>> It's so real. You believe it? I could

turn down the lights, I guess. I don't

know. No, that's nice. Um,

>> it's got a hair light. It's really

>> No, seriously. Look at the outline.

>> Hair hair underlighting is what I need.

Like, >> yeah, that's what Yeah, that's that's it. And yeah, there's a little

it. And yeah, there's a little reflection in the bite poster >> in your in your head. Like, Yep. Yeah,

I'm going all AI now. Um,

it's funny. I was like, uh, I So, I just I randomly pulled out a couple of guys that I thought were really great. Like

if you want to know anything about like um like wearables and stuff like that, there's a there's a YouTube channel and a blog actually, DC Rand Maker. This

guy's like unbelievable. And he was so good at this stuff. He's goes to all the Apple events now and everything. Like

he's just he probably wears like five or six different trackers all the time. But

he has like the like the kind of medical equipment stuff where you can see if like what's accurate and what isn't. And

if that's the type of stuff you care about, like that's actually really good.

I also found a really good guy for just like um iPhone photography and also iPhone I guess you know video recording.

He's a professional photographer. Um but

uh the like he invented a clamp that's basically like an iPhone well it's a clamp for an iPhone to use on a tripod or whatever. Um uh Tyler Stallman is

or whatever. Um uh Tyler Stallman is this guy's name and the Stallman clamp is the thing he made. There's a lot of, you know, it's like um like finding like if you're a if you're a homeowner, for example, like you know, you got to find

guys you can trust who are like carpenters electricians plumbers like you need this stuff, right? Like if

there's an emergency on Christmas Eve or whatever, which we have experienced. Uh

not only are you going to pay through your nose, but you're going to want the guy who shows up to actually know what he's doing. And like it's like it's it's

he's doing. And like it's like it's it's key like finding these kind of people.

So, it's interesting to me that even in like technology because I can't, you know, you can't know everything. I mean,

there are just certain topics like I'm like, I don't I need help, you know. Um,

and so it it seems to me a lot of this stuff is uh occurring on video these days, you know, but not on TikTok because that's where the idiots go.

You're not You're better than that.

>> Um, I thought this is where the idiots go. Okay, good to know. Yeah. Well,

go. Okay, good to know. Yeah. Well,

they're here, too, but >> I've been going to the wrong place all along.

>> We're all idiots. It's okay. Um, and

apppropo of not well, not apppropo of nothing, but uh, Xbox is having a Black Friday sale. I've been I've just started

Friday sale. I've been I've just started going through this, but um, if you haven't, there are games like Borderlands 4, 20% off. The new Doom game is 50% off, uh, etc. It's worth

looking at this. I I got to go look at Steam and Epic. I'm sure these other companies are also having Black Friday type sales. So, just something to know

type sales. So, just something to know about real quick. Um, and then a couple of like uh AI browser type things. So,

Microsoft, as you probably know, is doing co-pilot mode in Microsoft Edge.

Even if you don't use Edge, but using Windows 11, it's worth launching Edge.

It will tell you that it's updated, right? And you can step through the

right? And you can step through the little wizard thing. All these are all new AI features. Um right now you can sign up for two kind of experimental features in edge uh that require

co-pilot mode. Um one is called journeys

co-pilot mode. Um one is called journeys and one is called actions. And the

reason you would do this is not so much because maybe you're going to switch to edge like that's not really it although I don't know maybe you are going to switch to edge I don't know but u Microsoft is rolling these kinds of features out in Windows and in the

browser and they tend to hit the browser first. So actions is literally the

first. So actions is literally the agent-based capability where this thing will do tasks on your behalf, right? In

this case, using websites, um, you know, order me this using my credit card or look for this thing on sale, the type of thing we've been talking about. So it's

worth looking at for that reason because this is coming to Windows. And then uh the journeys feature is essentially um like the memory type feature but it's tied to just not just remembering

everything you ever chatted about but you might do these research searches or queries I guess or whatever they are prompts uh where you wanted to do deep research and it will remember that as well. So if there's more information or

well. So if there's more information or another source of information or whatever you can actually add it to previous research uh through journeys.

So this is these are I look at these things and I think these are kind of core copilot features meaning they're actually kind of core AI

and in one case agenic features um this is kind of a a good way to experiment with this stuff right um before it gets into Windows so it's worth >> the ultimate destination here is Windows right

>> of course yeah I mean it's here because not everyone uses Windows so I suppose at some point we'll see this you know on the Mac it will be what >> probably on uh mobile or whatever. So,

you can access it through Edge that way too, you know, I guess. But, you know, but whatever. It's it's kind of a low

but whatever. It's it's kind of a low impact way to uh to do it. And I should say you actually have to sign up to get into the thing though. It's like a preview. Um but once you do, you'll be

preview. Um but once you do, you'll be alerted. Then you can just turn it on

alerted. Then you can just turn it on and then you can use it. So, I did this I don't know a week or two ago, but I just noticed I'm in everywhere so I can start using it and I'll probably write about >> Well, they always they Edge gets very

upset with you if you're not logged in as something because it's like we want to synchronize between your different brows.

>> I know you you keep presenting this as something helping me, it's really helping you.

>> Yeah, it's the Hydra model. Uh we have our fingers in this >> in everything. Yeah, exactly.

Um and then just semi-related to this um Comet is the Perplexity web browser. I

think the initial version I don't was it Windows only or was it um >> Windows and Mac? I don't remember but it's at least on it is on Windows.

>> Um is now available on Android as well.

So if you're an Android user and have and a Perplexity customer or whatever um that browser is available that I have not looked at yet either but um I am curious about it. So

>> cool.

>> And then sorry real quick uh not to Yeah, we have plenty of time. Um I just sorry theNet team has just announced they're doing an agentic modernization day

>> uh in on December 9. Um and so this is going to be a free one-day virtual event. So if you're interested in if

event. So if you're interested in if you're a .NET programmer and you're curious about how's net go and embrace these aenic patterns and etc etc. This

is the I guess the launch of that so you can see what's going on there. Modernize

>> this is what Visual Studio 2026 is all about as well, right? We

>> we've been hit with a lot but I think everybody's still trying to get their feet under themselves right now. So what

does all this mean?

>> Yep.

>> Okay, Richard, I think you're up, my friend.

>> Yeah, and it's uh it's that time of year. Uh I it's five or six years in a

year. Uh I it's five or six years in a row now that I've done a Christmas gifts for system in shows. And if you're gonna do that, you should invite both a Snow and a Claus.

>> Nice.

>> So yeah. So Rick Claus and Joey Snow uh both from Microsoft and they've shifted around Teams and things and they also make their own podcast called uh Patch and Switch which I occasionally crash

and harass them on. uh very I you know system in focused and uh we've gotten really competitive over the past few years about these gifts like we literally make a new you know oneote

dock as soon as we finish the show to start building our list for next year.

So it's literally just a roundroin each of us presenting a gift trying to make the others laugh. Uh end up being six each. So 18 presents uh some of them are

each. So 18 presents uh some of them are very inexpensive some of them are not.

Some of them are like you should you you know should upgrade to this or this is a silly thing for your desk. I think one of the ones I went with was the the um

dumpster fire pen holder, right? Because

you know this stuff that people can relate to. It's like and you know people

relate to. It's like and you know people are frustrated trying to get gifts for assistive men and so this is just an easy way to uh to add that to bring that in. We've done it year after year and

in. We've done it year after year and this was another banger. Uh if you go to the website, all of the links to all of the products are there. And so um practical, not practical, inexpensive,

inexpensive, but stuff that the administrator in your life will love.

>> Love it. I always enjoy this episode.

It's a lot of fun.

>> It's the keeper. Now I'm ready for some Yeah.

>> I promised something Australian, and this one hit me in the face. Uh because

I got it at a rum distillery which is confusing. Uh I'm up here uh near

confusing. Uh I'm up here uh near Brisbane in the uh right at the border between Queensland and New South Wales.

There's two states in Australia. Uh the

problem is this time of year and I've never had to experience this before. New

South Wales is on daylight savings time and Queensland is not. And so literally I can walk two blocks and the time on my

phone changes. like it's it's it's

phone changes. like it's it's it's madness right now. But uh uh we had an opportunity to spend some time with Troy and Charlotte Hunt. That that's Troy

Hunt of Have I Been Pone Fame who lives up here in Surface Paradise and we and he invited us to lunch at the Husk distillery which is a which is this rum distillery in the northern part of New

South Wales >> and uh they make a whiskey there. And so

I started digging into the story a little bit and we have to kind of rum turns out to be really important in Australia. It's kind of been an

Australia. It's kind of been an essential part of Australia since the very beginning. So, uh, famously, I

very beginning. So, uh, famously, I think most people know that the English colonized Australia using convicts. In

1788, the England's first fleet arrives in a place at that time they called Aara. Today we call it Sydney with 11

Aara. Today we call it Sydney with 11 ships full of convicts, the soldiers to supervise them, initially the Marines that were eventually replaced by the army. uh two years worth of food because

army. uh two years worth of food because they needed to colonize. They were going to have to grow things so forth and four years worth of rum.

And because it was a a convict colony, they didn't really bring much in the way of currency of any kind. And so for a number of years, that whole area

operates on barter. And the barter product of choice is rum. Now, they're

also not making rum. So they're

importing the rum from India from the English colonies that are in India at that time. And so this entity gets

that time. And so this entity gets formed largely run by the navy called the New South Wales Corp or as we generally refer to the rum corp. And

they're bringing in that rum and and managing it. And there's pressure

managing it. And there's pressure between the army side, the navy side about how it becomes rel relatively corrupt because this is you're literally in control of currency. Rum is is the

the main thing there. So there was a a a soldier by the Captain John MacArthur who is largely managing the rum business and and has folks that he's working with

on the Navy side to go get to bring in certain runs controlling distribution and so essentially has control of Australia's economy and then one would argue does a fairly good job of it, right? Uh although it does reach a point

right? Uh although it does reach a point that is the only time that Australia has ever had a coup, a military coup, and it was over a guy you may have heard of. It

was William Bllye as in Mutiny on the Bounty.

>> William, the same guy, >> Mr. Christian.

>> Yeah. At some point, you got to think, maybe it's you. Uh, in 1806, William Bllye, and again, he's a Navy man. He's

a captain at that time, becomes the fourth governor of New South Wales. Now,

New South Wales was the only state. It

was much bigger on the east than it is today. There's about 7,000 colonists,

today. There's about 7,000 colonists, and they're struggling, of course, as any colony does. there's food shortages, the trade things, like stuff hasn't happened the way they were told it was going to happen. The army folks that

they brought down under a guy by the name of Major George Johnson, they basically been told like, "Look, you're going to the new world. There's you're

close to the Southeast Asian trade route." So, that's all the spice trade,

route." So, that's all the spice trade, so like you're going to be rich men, but you're moving to a colony where they're just trying to make food, right? You're

you're not there yet. Uh, and so, uh, they're all a bit frustrated. And in

comes this new uh governor and he's trying to run it like a naval operation.

He's quite upset at the love what's going on with Rum. So he's trying to take control of it. He's he's

restricting what ships can enter the the harbor. He's wants to charge taxes, all

harbor. He's wants to charge taxes, all that sort of things. And so eventually this escalates to the point where MacArthur, who was actually a private citizen because he got into trouble in the in the uh Navy, he's been fined for

some of his activities, but he refuses to pay the fine. and he refuses to go to court because the judge involved owes him money cuz of course he's the rum guy. Uh this finally escalates to Bllye

guy. Uh this finally escalates to Bllye himself. Bllye goes to the the senior

himself. Bllye goes to the the senior army guy, this major Johnson. And

Johnson's response is to appoint himself lieutenant governor and arrest Bllye the governor and uh wants him to go back to England basically in disgrace. And Bllye

refuses and stays under house arrest for an entire year and then finally boards a ship obstensively to go back to England, but doesn't. Instead, he sails down to

but doesn't. Instead, he sails down to what's known as Van Demon's Land uh which we talked about on a previous show that's actually Tasmania, uh which is run by a different uh guy, a guy named David Collins, who's a

lieutenant governor down there. Collins

doesn't want to help him because apparently nobody likes Bllye actually.

And so he ends up stuck in Tasmania for another year. He stays in Hobart. By

another year. He stays in Hobart. By

1810, uh there's a a new governor arrives, a guy named Lachlan McCrory. So uh Bllye had in theory his four years have gone by and this is the new guy. And so this

is when Bllye goes back to Sydney and he finds out that both MacArthur and Johnson had already left for England the year before to plead their case back to the crown as well. So then he sails for England. It doesn't go well for

England. It doesn't go well for MacArthur and and Johnson. MacArthur at

that point was a civilian. So he does he is ordered to be tried for treason but in Sydney on the other side of the world and he manages to negotiate that down to I will go back to Sydney but I won't

face a trial and but he'll never be be in public affairs again like not be elected or anything to support. So he

goes home in 1870 and lives comfortably.

Uh Johnson is a soldier and is court marshaled for his actions in in the coup. uh but this then also returns to

coup. uh but this then also returns to to Sydney in 1813 is just as a settler.

So interesting that these folks ultimately did go back to the colonies, right? They did have land grants and

right? They did have land grants and things. So it was a big deal. Uh and

things. So it was a big deal. Uh and

Bllye doesn't go back. He is he is largely exonerated like not entirely. Uh

and is eventually becomes vice admiral, dies in 1817. So there's the crazy uh how big was Rum in Australia? So I

mentioned Lacklin McCrory, which you know has towns and roads and things named after him. In 1811, McCory knows that they need a hospital for the convicts and he has no money. So, he

makes a deal with three men, guy named Alexander Riley and and Garham Blackell and Darcy went with who was actually a doctor to give them a short-term

monopoly over rum trade in Sydney uh to up to 45,000 gallons of rum in exchange for building a hospital. So,

like ultimately this is known as the rum hospital. By the way, that building

hospital. By the way, that building still stands. It gets finished in 1816.

still stands. It gets finished in 1816.

So, it takes about 5 years to build.

Operates as a hospital till 1848. Today,

the south wing of that hospital is the mint because it was built on rum because they had no currency. So, now the currency is made in the building. And

the north wing of that building is the Parliament House for the state of New South Wales. So, as much as it was built

South Wales. So, as much as it was built on rum, it's a big important building.

uh sort of wrapping up the rum side of the story up in this area. This the

Queensland is where most sugar cane is grown here. It's one of the crops that

grown here. It's one of the crops that grows extremely well in this subtropical environment. Right? We're at about 31°

environment. Right? We're at about 31° south. And so sugarcane is grown

south. And so sugarcane is grown extensively here. And this area was not

extensively here. And this area was not initially known as Brisbane. It was

known as Morton Bay, which is still called Morton Bay. And that's where we get Morton Bay bugs and so forth.

There's islands and so forth in the area. And it was a secondary colony. uh

area. And it was a secondary colony. uh

it was built as a as a place for sort of the worst of the worst of the convicts.

So they they moved them up here, but within a couple years it was self-sufficient. It it operated quite

self-sufficient. It it operated quite well. Uh and by 1848, the Converts are

well. Uh and by 1848, the Converts are gone. It's now a Brisbane town. It

gone. It's now a Brisbane town. It

becomes a free uh settlement. More

people move in and ultimately by 1859, the colony of Queensland becomes its own state, separates from New South Wales.

And today, by uh by 1863, they're growing sugarcane up. Today it's like 95% of sugar cran 95% of what sugarcane grown in Australia is grown in Queensland and the rest is like in

northern New South Wales just over here where I am uh very close by. Now when

you grow sugar cane is to arguably to make sugar so you have to process it and one of the byproducts of that extraction is molasses and typically that's what you make rum from. Most rum is derived

from molasses. Uh but that equipment is

from molasses. Uh but that equipment is fairly big and expensive. And in 1869, there's a there's been now a few small

uh sugarcane operations around Morton Bay. So there's this ship called the SS

Bay. So there's this ship called the SS Walrus. It's a converted sailing ship

Walrus. It's a converted sailing ship and they have a sugar mill on board, but they also have a still. And so they actually were licensed to do this for a few years. And it would travel around

few years. And it would travel around Morton Bay from uh sugarce plantation to sugar plantation in the harvest season.

and they would process the sugar and make the molasses into rum. Now, by

1872, there are other distilleries being built on land and so they lose their license and they keep doing it anyway cuz it's very profitable. uh that

eventually goes south as they're trying to flee from the um authorities or to try to stop that and the ship uh is ultimately salvaged in uh in 1876 and

eventually is dismantled in 1884 and that still is removed from the ship and becomes part of the Bele uh Beanie

distillery which is still operational today and arguably is the oldest running distillery in Australia. Now clearly

there were other operations before that because it was part of the reason that the SS Waller was shut down but uh Beline today is still in business which is pretty cool. It's not the most best

known rum distillery but it's still out there. In fact there's 90 different

there. In fact there's 90 different distill rum distilleries in Australia.

But we were going to tell about story about the Husk distilleries, the one I actually got to and they call themselves a farmtobottle operation because this is Paul and Mandy Messenger who own a sugar

plantation. So they were already making

plantation. So they were already making sugar and they have cattle and so forth in an area called uh Tumble Gum out near uh Mount Warning in this is northern New South Wales. This is one of the few

South Wales. This is one of the few places not in Queensland that could grow sugar. Uh Mount Warning by the way is an

sugar. Uh Mount Warning by the way is an old shield volcano. So this is very volcanic soil. is awesome for growing

volcanic soil. is awesome for growing and it's only about 80 km south uh of Beanlay where the original rum distillery is. So this is you're you

distillery is. So this is you're you know you're close enough to the equator here that they the uh sunlight doesn't vary very much. You know the sun is up here at about 4:30 in the morning which

is why we they don't have daylight savings time here cuz for what? Like it

doesn't do anything. So winter time's about 10 hours of daylight, summertime's about 14 hours of daylight. The winters

tend to be dry and they're relatively warm. It never freezes here really. And

warm. It never freezes here really. And

uh and quite humid summers as we're starting to get into now where it's it's pretty hot. Um Paul Messenger fell in

pretty hot. Um Paul Messenger fell in love with what's known as rum agrical which is the French name for rum and that is rum made from the sugar cane juice which you would normally use to

make sugar rather than molasses. Now

that's not the agricol is not the only thing they do with sugarcane juice. This

is uh cassasha. The Brazilian alcohol is made with sugarcane juice. This is what you make a caparina from. Uh and so but he wanted to make agricol which is this kind of specialized lighter rum instead

of going from the dark stuff that is that comes from molasses using the sugarcane juice. put his he made his

sugarcane juice. put his he made his first batches in 2012 uh using a column still and he had a small Spanish spot still as well and put it up in barrels

to age and then realized hey I'm still years away from making good rum here so he starts making a gin and uh kind of knocks it out of the park using local botanicals and then he did a a gin he

calls the ink gin which is got that it's that purple gin there's a few of them around there that changes color depending whether you put water in it or or uh uh tonic and so forth

Uh he made deals for aging his rum with penfolds. He got penfolds wine barrels

penfolds. He got penfolds wine barrels which they would then these are 300 liter casts that have been used for five or six years to mature wine. They're

they're European oak and they scrape them and and char them and then use them to make their rum. Uh and they got so they've done so well on the rum side that they started cultivating other kind

of sugar cane. Most sugar cane is grown to make sugar and so you sort of you use the species that make the most sugar and the molasses is a byproduct you make rum from. But because they were making rum

from. But because they were making rum first, they actually have been switching up their species to a different cultiva which makes a sort of murky sugar. Like

you don't like it for sugar, boy, it makes good rum. Uh, and while they're in, so a few years into this business, uh, Paul and Mandy travel to Scotland and end up striking up a relationship

with the Cardu Distillery. These are

one, this is one of Diagio's distilleries, really heavily involved in Johnny Walker. They connect with the

Johnny Walker. They connect with the master distiller. They're a guy named

master distiller. They're a guy named William Buzz Hutchinson. Um, and you know, get a get a taste for what whiskey is about, even though they're clearly in the rum business and set up for that.

But coincidentally, the following year in 2017, Cyclone Debbie, which is what they call hurricanes down here, and they do spin the other way because coral is

effect uh hits this area very heavily.

And their farm is under 4 m, 12 ft of water. So the original distillery is

water. So the original distillery is destroyed. A lot of the structures and

destroyed. A lot of the structures and so forth. It takes them years to

so forth. It takes them years to recover. But in the while that's going

recover. But in the while that's going on, they've been working with card. So

they order a fourth thigh. still the

first pores size still in Australia 6,000 liter. This is from uh raw in in

6,000 liter. This is from uh raw in in Scotland. It's you know meant for making

Scotland. It's you know meant for making whiskey but it'll perfectly well to make rum. Pot still rum is a thing. Uh and

rum. Pot still rum is a thing. Uh and

almost all um agrical or or casa is made pot still rather than column still wise.

Uh and so uh that year be while they while they were still recovering and they you know the sugarcane harvest was messed up and so forth. They decided to make a whiskey

forth. They decided to make a whiskey using this pot still. Now they don't use barley but they have relationships with the local breweries specifically one

called the stone and wood. And so Stone and Wood uh made a wart for them that they then distilled into whiskey. Uh and

that's uh what we got to taste while while we were there. Uh distillery was all rebuilt in 2019. They built a much larger one. They have the bigger stills

larger one. They have the bigger stills now. Uh they built out in the next year

now. Uh they built out in the next year a thousand barrel uh aging uh structure uh a rack house and uh a great restaurant and viewing area. It's used

for weddings and so forth. It's very

very beautiful. They they've been through other storms and things since in 2022. So this addition, they call this

2022. So this addition, they call this Sidetrack for a reason because they're not a whiskey maker. They're a rum maker. This is a sidetrack. And they've

maker. This is a sidetrack. And they've

done it every year since 2018 where just before the regular harvest of sugar cane, they get a run of wart and they make a couple of thousand bottles of

whiskey as this sidetrack. So, distilled

in this uh copper pot still, the foresize still. Then they put it into

foresize still. Then they put it into used rum barrels for 5 years. And so

there's only been a couple of editions of it. And I got to taste the 2023

of it. And I got to taste the 2023 edition.

That's about 85 Australian dollars.

There's only 2,000 bottles of it. It's

numbered. And it ta it is very rummy.

The fun part is I was also able to taste a uh a 20-year-old rum of husks that is

aged in the beer barrels from uh from stone and and wood. And so you taste a rum that was aged like the beer and a whiskey that was aged in the rum. And

they and I could tell the difference.

It's very much a difference between a sugar cane made product and a cereal made product. But the woody flavors are

made product. But the woody flavors are are in common and they're they're delicious. Uh hard to find. They I said

delicious. Uh hard to find. They I said there's only 2,000 bottles. You probably

have to come to Queensland or come to the Hust distillery to get it again at $85 Australian. It is the craftiest of

$85 Australian. It is the craftiest of craft whisies. Uh only made once a year,

craft whisies. Uh only made once a year, limited release. And by the way, their

limited release. And by the way, their rums are phenomenal. And you should if you are a rum person, and I am not. I

mean, I respect a good daiquiri, but uh you know, when you these these guys also make very small batches of craft rum from sugar cane from that from that

farm. They are literally farm to bottle

farm. They are literally farm to bottle in that operation right there. You're

not going to find that in very many places. They can't make millions of

places. They can't make millions of liters. They make tens of thousands of

liters. They make tens of thousands of liters. Uh and it's a fantastic product

liters. Uh and it's a fantastic product and it was a great experience.

>> Now I want some rum.

>> Yeah, I'm with you. you know, it was very an agricultural rum appeals to me far more than the sort of traditional molass totally different feel to it. So,

yes, I had a I had an aged rum tasting while I was there.

>> And uh >> people do drink rum like they drink whiskey. You can get good rum drink

whiskey. You can get good rum drink straight. Yeah.

straight. Yeah.

>> Yeah. Absolutely. Uh sipping rums without a doubt. And Rory, the uh the bartender there, took good care of me, and I promised him I would send him a link when we put this up on the on the site about talking about

>> There used to be a rum bar in San Francisco that had hundreds of rooms. I don't know if it's still around down by the >> There are lots of folks out there that take they take their rum very, very seriously.

>> Um, when are you guys going to be together? Pretty soon, right?

together? Pretty soon, right?

>> Yeah. Two weeks. I'm going to come back from Lithuania on the 6th of December and uh stopping in Philly for a special event on the

10th, which is also the day we're going to shoot Windows Weekly. So, I'm going to have a couple few days. I'm just

going to grab a car, drive to Lower McCundi, and harass the throat for a few days.

>> Oh, you're going to do it not in Mexico?

I thought you were going to do it in PV or somewhere. Oh, you're going to do it

or somewhere. Oh, you're going to do it in McCi.

>> Yeah, we're going to do Mexico and not January. That's another thing. One

January. That's another thing. One

thing.

>> So, I think we're going to do our holiday show. uh just the three of us.

holiday show. uh just the three of us.

When you're there, >> uh we don't have an agenda for it. You

don't have to prepare a notes. It's just

going to be uh sitting around telling stories, sipping whiskey, telling stories.

>> How about that?

>> So, think of some good stories, some good tales.

>> Think of some good stories >> from the front.

>> Wow.

>> You guys are good storytellers. So, I'll

tell you the story about the L lumberjack competitions going on outside my window right now.

Man, oh man. Oh man. Ladies and

gentlemen, this concludes uh this u interesting edition of Windows Weekly.

Paul Thorat uh is at throat.com.

turr.com.

Become a premium member. There's lots of stuff behind the payw wall, but there's lots of stuff in front of it, too. His

books at leanpub.com, including the field guide to Windows 11 and Windows everywhere. Richard Campbell is at

everywhere. Richard Campbell is at runisradio.com.

runisradio.com.

That's where you'll find that show as well as net rocks. And of course, don't forget the holiday show with gifts for cisadmins this week at runisradio.com.

We do this show every Wednesday uh about 11:00 a.m. Pacific, 2 p.m.

Eastern, 1900 UTC. You can join us live in the Club Twit Discord, but also on YouTube Twitchx.com Facebook, LinkedIn, and Kick. You don't

have to be a member to watch us live. Uh

you just have to be patient.

>> Yeah. Uh and uh we then do edit out uh all of the glitches. We hope. I don't

know if we're going to get them all out for this show, but we edit out most of the glitches anyway and post it on the website tw.tv/ww.

website tw.tv/ww.

There's a YouTube channel dedicated to the video of Windows Weekly. And you can subscribe to the audio or video on your favorite podcast client. Do leave us a good review if you would, a fivestar

review so that the rest of the world can discover this fabulous program. Paul,

have a great Thanksgiving as as the as the cooking begun.

>> Oh, yes. This is a hub of activity.

>> Oh, how fun.

>> Or as I called it, a hubbhub of activity, which doesn't really mean anything, but yeah, it's been >> hubbhub hub works. Yeah. Yeah.

>> Uh, I would just, my thought is get a, you know, nice glass of eggnog and rum and stand there sipping it, watching.

>> I mostly just stand by the side and just criticize.

>> Yeah, exactly.

>> That doesn't look like whipped potatoes.

>> That's not the only pie you're going to make, is it?

>> Is that the only pie we're having?

>> How big is How big is the turk?

>> 26 lbs. And then, but we have another one just for us cuz we we go to my sisters. people,

sisters. people, >> right?

>> And uh we do we Yeah, you need a big oven. Like that's just takes up a lot of

oven. Like that's just takes up a lot of room.

>> Yeah, it's a big It's a big bird. Y

>> I'm making a little one. Just a 10 pounder cuz there's only going to be four of us.

>> Yeah, I don't know. The other one must be Yeah. 15 or less 12. I don't know.

be Yeah. 15 or less 12. I don't know.

>> Uh and of course, Richard, there's no uh Thanksgiving for you, but you could go surfing this afternoon if you want.

>> Do not you dare celebrate this holiday, you bastard.

We have we we we occasionally have Americans come up for Canadian Thanksgiving just because, you know, reason. And then we had sometimes we pop

reason. And then we had sometimes we pop down too and went that way. So

>> So good. You did it twice.

>> Yeah.

>> Richard Campbell, Paul Thorat, thank you for being here. All you winners and dozers, thank you for being here. Have a

wonderful, if you're in the US, have a wonderful Thanksgiving. And we'll be

wonderful Thanksgiving. And we'll be back in December for the next Windows Weekly. We'll see

you then. Bye-bye.

Hey hey hey hey hey hey.