The 19-year-old Making Millions with His Ai Mobile App

how much money do you make in the last

30 days we made

$250,000 so about quar a million do how

old are you 19 what do you do so we have

a porn addiction app that helps hundreds

of thousands of men around the world

quit pornography and it's like a mobile

app like in the app store that's right

okay how long did it take to actually

get to this point I mean we've been in

the business for about four months five

months now so you started at four months

ago five months ago you're making

$250,000 per month right is that

recurring

well this month is our biggest month

okay but is it recurring is it a

subscription what's the price so it is a

subscription yeah we got like $1299 a

month plan we got a $45 a year so we

have a lot of cash coming through the

door because a lot of people buy a

yearly plan so we can just reinvest that

into more marketing that's why you know

okay it's easy to scale super

interesting last question I'm going to

ask you then I'm going to get to

everybody why did you decide to build

this app out of all the apps in the

world you could build I think it is is

just such an issue in today's world a

lot of only fans and porn is normalized

no one knows about the side effects so

building an app for that market was just

a no-brainer unended was it a passion

thing was money a part of it both I

think initially looking at the consumer

app space and what was working a lot of

men don't talk about this you don't go

to your boy and be like I'm addicted to

porn man how do you help me and so for

us we broke down the barriers and it was

incognito on the app and so when we

launched it people knew they had an

issue and the app was there to help them

and so that's where also we have one of

the largest conversion rates in the

industry first off how did you guys

start to meet each other so there's the

whole team here right tell your name and

what you do I'm Chris I'm the lead

designer how old are you I'm 17 cool I'm

Alex I do product in Dev and I'm 19 I'm

Connor I'm 22 and I handle all growth

distribution Marketing sales Etc okay

great and so how did you guys come

together in the first place this is a

fun story yeah do you want me to tell it

I'll start then we we'll okay first off

he's my brother oh of cool okay easy um

so I was working on an app um that held

you accountable by losing money if you

didn't work out it since failed but when

doing that I use YC's co-founder

matching tool which is a tool anyone can

have access to I saw Alex on there and

then I bered him on probably eight

different platforms including two apps

he's built um we hopped on a call he's

like I don't like this idea at all but

we connected over our energy of just

building stuff and then coincidentally a

year later I went to San Francisco to

give peer pressure last hurah and Alex

was also there um we met up picked him

up in the rental car got some

Chipotle um told him I had an idea to

help men quit porn and his response was

I built that last week oh and so so yeah

so he naturally came to me and was like

okay I'll run marketing for you we have

the product built let's work together

let's try figure something out and here

we are so you already had it built yeah

you had the idea I had the idea and I

built I built a hypothesis built off of

basically what Blake and Zach did did

with Cal umax dove into that built my

own hypothesis on top of it and was like

I know how to Market this and then um

come what late August early September um

they were broke at the time and I took

the only three grand I had of my bank

account and we turned into 37k our first

month that's wild so you were with the

hypothesis that like you need a viral

intrinsically viral product basically

and you found a way to basically make

this concept go viral I think it was

more you have a very high pain point

that everyone's not willing to talk

about but they want solved and

distribution is key and so we leverage

influencers who aren't pushing anti-porn

products but they are pushing

Christianity um Fitness things of that

nature that are also synergetic with

such a big Market too why did you build

this first then why did you have the

idea to build it uh so me and Chris are

actually in the self-improvement space

and like an aspect of self-improvement

is noof fap which is like s retention

people say you know it gives you so much

energy creativity and ideas and that's

you know and and because like porn is

and sexual drive is so inherit it's such

a hard addiction to quit and we're like

okay look there's no apps on this let me

build an app and then yeah we want to

launch it yeah were there competitors

was there any other app on the market

there like there's Boomers there was one

competitor and it was called brain body

I believe and the thing is about brain

bodyy they've been in the market for

about 14 years and they have zero

marketing efforts they've done uh

they've barely innovated in the last

like decade so we thought it was a good

Gap to enter the market and um yeah

another thing to note Covenant eyes is

another one and they target a lot of

older men gotcha um so their demographic

is 35 and up there wasn't anything for

Gen Z there's

nothing gen Z right we consume the most

only fan stuff and like because of the

rise of only fans because you

do but my point is they were targeting a

niche that we didn't relate to so we

built something better interesting okay

so then you had the idea you saw the

opportunity what is the actual product

like what is the experience like like

how are you how first how did you figure

out how to solve this problem for other

people is there AI involved could you

just explain the product yeah so

fundamentally um it was mainly just a

timer at first I don't know if you ever

heard of the concept no fap streak like

how long you've been okay porn free for

it was just a timer at first and then we

leveled it up to be a community so

everyone that downloads the app can chat

with each other and help each other out

and that's that's really helped people

we also have a bunch of breathing

exercises we have a panic button every

time you're really really tempted to Jer

off like vibrate your phone is like wake

up you have goals like stay How does it

go off how do you know uh you just press

it whenever you attempted you open

button on your phone you just press it

it recalls your entire mission on why

you want to quit yeah so it's quite

useful so what's the actual like flow

like to do this like if you were like

okay I download this app I really want

to try to quit what are you like what

are you inputting on your phone like

you're so you said you set your goals

yeah so initially in the on boarding you

go through a um like a quiz to see if

you actually need the app so you go

through about a 12 page quiz and um yeah

it basically calculates if you need it

and then it creates like a personalized

plan for you to if you need a quit or

not what are the questions um they yeah

oddly specific like has your exposure

got more and more like Twisted in a way

it's like how long have you been

addicted when way you're exposed to this

blah blah blah blah blah we calculate

their responses and show them if they

need our up or not

who would you not say need to the app I

think I think every everyone that

consumes porn should have our app

because it's it's so destructive MH it's

so normalized as yeah yeah yeah so

normalized so pretty much everyone but

unless you're clean then of course you

don't I think part of the trick is if

you're downloading the app you need the

app okay and the quiz is a reinforcer

that you that's I'm asking is it more of

like a psychological obviously this is a

good thing that people are doing so

there's no like Foul Play here but like

is it more like a psychological like

mental like getting them to even ask

themselves that question to answer you

had like this we mentioned earlier like

this mix panel onboarding stat like

literally 12 different steps it's like

99 99 98% people like no one's falling

off like everyone's going through this

and so it's kind of designed to be part

of the experience of quitting in and of

itself yeah it's it's super high intent

and because like because it's such a

taboo subject no one talks about it so

when there is an there is an outlet for

them to change and be a better person

they're going to stick with the

onboarding so it's almost like a journal

you know in a way anything can change

though if you're overweight you have to

accept the fat fact that you're fat and

you need to hit the gym so for this I

think it's reinforcing accept the fact

that you are addicted and you need

change and here's the process to get

change and help okay interesting so walk

me through this entire onboarding flow I

really want to understand so you

download the app yeah you open it then

you were asked a series of 12 questions

basically yeah MH and then once they

answer those 12 questions what happened

so so pretty much hello so if you watch

my podcast or other online podcast

you're probably in the world of online

business and you probably watch a lot of

content on it as you probably know

making content is one of the most

powerful ways to get customers for your

business and it's pretty much all I've

done for the last eight years I've been

able to grow my YouTube channel from

zero to half a million subscribers in a

very quick time and I've really seen

success in a lot of different formats a

lot of different niches because I truly

understand the psychology of content so

I've decided to make a YouTube program

called the YouTube Playbook where I

teach all of it very quickly in less

than two hours if you wanted to get that

it's the first link in the description

it's only $97 I promise it's not some

fluffy basic course it's exactly what

I've learned by doing this day in and

day out it's filled with all actionable

insights with a psychology first

approach so if you want to check that

out first link in the description back

to the episode and then once they answer

those 12 questions what happened so so

so pretty much it's download the app

then you get for a questionnaire after

you finish the questionnaire you go to a

symptom view so where you can click

which symptoms you have so like low

Drive no longer interested in girls Etc

then it goes to another page where it

shows like testimonials from people that

have used our app then it goes to

another slide where it says all the side

effects of consuming porn and then all

the benefits of quitting and how how our

app will help you do that and then we

asked them for a for a review so we Rank

kir and ASO so App Store optimization

then we hit with a pay wall and it says

it's time to invest in yourself and then

using their name it's like hey Alex it's

time to invest in yourself hit with the

payall now it's like okay look for just

20 bucks or $12.99 a month I can quit

porn forever so it's such a cheap you

know exchange for such a great

difference in your life are you ever

even like explaining what the product is

or what how you actually like the steps

to quitting like in after the explain

the value yeah so the outcome you're

giving you're G we're giving them the

value and the onboarding of here's what

users are saying here's how it helps

here's what it does and then when they

get in here the

features gotcha that's so smart so it's

basically like all these are a lot of

different psychology principles so it's

really smart the you're doing this one

they're put getting some little like

skin in the game answering all these

questions actually getting themselves to

ask the question then what do they see

next after the questionnaire uh they see

the symptoms you so they can select

which symptoms they so then they have to

like diagnose themselves like these are

the ones I actually like I have a

problem these are the problems I'm

experiencing and so in their mind do

they think they're getting a custom plan

built for them essentially okay so then

once they have that answered you show

them social proof so you show them

reviews of basically other people saying

this worked for me this was super

helpful and that makes them be like okay

this is like a real product and it's

worked for other people it'll work for

me and every every subsequent page every

tap they do like drives a higher intent

for them to actually P of course cuz if

you just throw them a payall in the

beginning they can easily uninstall the

app not like they no one wants to spend

money on things they don't have to but

if they design their plan for them of

course they're going to pay we're also

making the app much more customized well

as more updates come is this AI enabled

yeah okay so once they see the social

proof of the reviews you say you ask

them for a review yeah we do that why

would they give you a review before

they've even used the product good point

most people don't but there are a select

few people that just click five stars

and go to the next page super fast and

that adds up over time do they have to

actually write words or is it just five

stars you can just click five stars

gotcha but they but you showed them

other people's reviews first so they saw

reviews and they then you asked for a

review then what happened and then then

we hit him with a pay wall we give him

like a special the payall yeah right we

give him a special card saying look

we've built your plan this is your card

congrats on coming this far now it's

time to invest in yourself so it feels

like you've made something for them and

then you encourage them to invest in

themselves very important language then

you actually ask them to pay and you've

not a single time explained what the

actual app looks like or what's inside

or how it works uh through distribution

methods and App Store screenshots

they'll see what the app looks like or

organic content influencers posting

organic ugc ads Etc anything we're

pushing shows the app a lot of the times

so the marketing strategy is more

product education demos they see it work

they get recommended it by someone that

they follow basically and then if

they're on Strictly onboarding or App

Store organic right they look up how do

I quit pourn on app store and we pop up

they won't see features gotcha that

makes sense you always want to sell the

outcome the instate not the actual

features themselves it's not important

yes exactly okay so then then that's so

much that's so important because they

have intent they have the emotional

connection they made the decision

themselves and they've seen that it's

worked for other people four like key

psychology principles then they pay what

happens then we take they we take away

the hard pay wall they get jumped into

the app they can start their streak from

day one so look the time is C uh ticking

up saying look you've been sober for one

day two days 3 days four days they get

like a little special badge every time

they reach a new Milestone they're uh we

have a to-do list so they can Journal

why they want to quit make a post in the

community and start getting you know

building some habits on the app so it's

a community pretty much yeah in and of

itself so they can all talk to each

other ex and that's where I was talking

about the walls being broken down of

actually communicating with your issues

and getting help from each other are you

Anonymous or is your real name or is

your choice first your choice on names

and your choice on

age but they can just list whatever like

obviously you're not like KY seeing them

obviously okay so whatever name they

could do the real name they could

probably or some people are Anonymous I

would assume okay so that's very

interesting you said they get a list

that the first thing a to-do list yeah

they get a to-do list so we we just want

to build retention so we get them using

different features on the app so they

understand is is it a to-do list that

feels like an onboarding like you have

to do these to get set up or is it like

these are the set tasks you need to do

to achieve go here's what we recommend

okay then you said this word streak

explain the concept of a streak so it's

just how long you've been sober for and

people feel motivated by that like the

the higher your streak the less likely

you're going to relapse so what are the

it's streak so how long how many days in

a row I assume how many days in a row do

you have to like log into the app and

then like hit like second day or you

write it or does it for you and then if

you relapse you just click relapse and

it resets C gotcha okay yeah how do you

encourage people to be honest with

themselves and actually hit relapse when

they've

relapsed or you educate them like that's

kind of on them like we can't encourage

everyone to quit porn they got have that

mental like want to change if they can't

do it then the product's not for them

okay so Step One is a streak pay

attention to your streak try to keep

this as long as you can so you can stay

on top of how good you're doing we say

90 days is like the Breakthrough point

where you so you set you set a goal or

like a goal post like you we're trying

to go for 90 days let's see if you can

do it every day you log into this app

adds to your streak they have to log in

for the streak or just counts no it just

counts okay great then what's the next

one um

well we got the community okay we have

also like we have a recovery page so

it's like the longer your streak is

there's like a progress bar so like you

got better sleep you you got you're

thinking healthier thoughts you got more

energy and those tick up as your streak

increases all all these things increase

um their chances of becoming is that

actually track or is that just like a

high level like if you go a week without

this you're going to have more energy

it's high level for now we do want to

make it study based in the future but we

don't really need to right now no it

makes sense conceptually okay so that

you're trying to you're trying to grow

your streak you have a community to talk

to other people are you encouraging them

to like introduce themselves is there

like like how are they actually like

engaging in the community a lot of

people just post what they want so

they're like oh I'm really tempted

someone help me and there's loads of

people in the comments saying look don't

do it like you're better than this

remember all these lessons you learned

last time Etc so it's like if you feel

an urge you go in there talk that's also

why the panic button after you the panic

button panic button will push you to the

community or journaling as well okay so

when they join is like presented with

like here's like how to like here's the

system to quitting like is there like a

one pager that they're reading and then

introducing these tools or is it just

like a page of tools a page tools page

tools okay and they just like will click

in like okay what's this tool what's

this tool gotcha exactly how many tools

are there there's at least 20 oh wow

yeah okay so panic button we've also got

a like a plant so like if you you can

click plant your seed and then as your

streak increases it grows from a like a

little sapling into a tree

ah interesting and then people feel more

like visual progress right exactly they

don't want to cut the tree down they

want to keep it growing so they keep

watering it so kindy to build all these

little like emotional connections to

this thing and it's compounding they'll

do something if they do this so there's

like external accountability

accountability yeah like external

accountability basically great thank you

one of our more viral features is like

melus which is like a AI is what is is a

AI therapist

so goes with sorry goes with the back

end but you speak to melas and it gives

you advice and if there's no one in the

community that can help you you can

speak to melus and it gives you like one

to one advice so it's like your AI agent

that people can just talk to basically

pretty much yeah 24/7 therapist you can

speak to interesting and knows

everything about noof fap knows all the

symptoms how did you figure out what

tools to include I think a lot of it was

studying the competition they gave us a

lot of inspiration head St we don't

really need to reinvent the world I

don't think anyone does MH um and then

just things that we thought would be

useful

that's kind of like we just go with our

gut instincts and we also listen to the

community we have like a little program

where if you give us a good feature that

we eventually Implement we'll give you

like 100 bucks and that's like

interesting it's helping the flywheel

grow pretty much yeah it's like a

streamlined information with like a

dopamine fueled experience SL you're

building something so you don't want to

lose it and then accountability from the

group and a person I would say we also

whenever someone deletes the app or

cancels we ask them what they would want

changed and basically we've set up a

system where we just have this feed of

feedback that we can actually Implement

is it viewed positively like do you have

like some sort of like like

congratulations you just canceled like

is that like a is that a thing where

it's like like you quit like you've done

it like we don't yeah okay but like

that's like we don't know if they're

deleting because they quit or if they're

deleting because they don't like the

yeah yeah I think I think noof fap in

that whole journey is like a lifelong

game though for sure because it takes

one slip up to fall back in the cycle

the panic button is interesting so

you're just like trying to like

habituate yourself that if you feel this

vibration like snaps you out of this

like trans like wake up don't let your

mind a meditative state in a sense of

like your boy being like what are you

doing man come on let's stop like if you

set an alarm every day at 1 p.m. and you

heard that sound you would immediately

hear that sound like start behaving a

certain way even without hearing it a

month later that's so smart are there

any other like Cool Tools like that that

you want to that like would be

interesting to hear about we have like a

full page of resources so a bunch of

Articles like break down everything

about what porn addiction is like all

the psychology behind it and as you

understand and read through it um you

kind kind of just disassociate from that

feeling and are able to overcome it

become aware that it's actually even a

thing like I feel like most people don't

even realize they're addicted or that

being addicted to this thing is even

possible they think they're just like

watching content that's fun to watch or

something exactly then when we when we

show them how it's affecting them they

start to realize and break free from

that do you show pictures of brain

activity they're like really like heat

mapped big and then some really small we

actually have done some marketing progam

we done that in Twitter yeah for

marketing like five reasons how porn

affects your brain and then at the

bottom it's like download quitter if you

want it's like this person's without

porn this person's with porn who are you

red that seems like a no-brainer

interesting bro okay so then is there

any sort of like there's two more

questions I have on the product are

there any sort of like viral growth

Mechanics for the app to grow natively

like product like growth like sharing

this to a friend I feel like that's not

a very yeah big Advantage you might have

we don't have that Advantage at all we

had it in the beginning where it's like

refer friend you get five bucks and we

had a few downloads from that but I just

don't think you're going to share this

product with your friends like look

here's here's how you quit point the

reason why it works is Wells because

people aren't sharing it but they need

to get it solved mhm yeah it's like a

very personal experience so there really

is no organic growth as far as like just

people sharing the app natively or

exactly I mean if you if you type any

keywords on how to quit on the App Store

we will come up so I guess that's our

only organic P yeah I think we're number

one on quick p on the that makes sense I

I totally get that okay cool and then is

there any sort of like cancellation like

down sell or like stop don't cancel like

why are you doing this to yourself I

like it's like a congratulation or like

a guilt or is it like we we collect

feedback on why they want to leave us

and that's it just like fill in this

answer and then hit cancel exact fair

enough that's nice I always hate when

people make me do stuff cancel but there

is something to do there probably true

like do you not put any language like

you why are you doing this my my my my

my focus the last few days has been like

do lingo do lingo guilt tripping

messages remember those notifications

where it's like you let you little wus

down yeah exactly it's like a tamagachi

exactly I was thinking so pretty much

like 15% of people that download app

convert so 85% of people that download

Don't convert so imagine we send

streamline emails following up saying

look you're letting yourself down this

this mascot's really sad that you're not

not buying a subscription blah blah blah

and eventually the bottom line will get

cleaned up yeah you you want to you'd

want to ask why they got why are they're

quitting and just two answers I'm

addiction free or like whatever I'm I'm

going to try this again later yeah

something like that and then you get

different yeah I'll be back would be a

good one another thing on the flip side

of this um we tend to get the question

of why we're not premium as well cuz

we're hard pay wall and I think it's

important to note the fact that we did

try that but the activity on the app

dropped significantly no one used the

app when it was free everyone used it

when it was a hard pay wall and so it

goes into that whole onboarding scene

and scenario of intent to buy and I

think half the battle is when purchase

they're all right I'm doing this to quit

and then that's why they quit yeah

there's undeniable data that if you pay

for something you value it more and so I

don't think that would make sense at all

it's like if it's if I can just access

it anytime it's like whatever the amount

of questions we get why isn't it free

why isn't it free why isn't it free why

don't you do freemium it's like the

commitment that you feel when you pay

like you feel that loss of the money

leaving your account so you feel

committed why would you let yourself and

your money down yeah yeah and actually

it's funny because we have a hard pay

wall and people are saying more commit

to thems they're going to rate our app

higher because it's finally working but

actually it was just their ment

mentality it's an undeniable Psy like

there's so many studies that prove that

psychology too so that's the correct

answer correct way to do it I think it's

so weird that people are like that on

social media okay so the

product makes sense to me she's all

these different sets of tools different

habits different like emotional building

accountability with the community seeing

this tree grow you don't want to lose

that it's like these little like

subjective things that people just need

to compound and do every single day to

be in that mindset and to snap

themselves out of it when they feel

tempted that makes a lot of sense and it

seems like it's a booming Market to come

into huge Market almost every person

probably needs this on the in our

generation for sure and so Tam's only

growing big problem human need it's A+

product choice I feel like right there

from a business perspective also from a

morality perspective it's a good thing

for the world yeah so round of applause

for that thank you what makes like what

is go a little give me like five minute

rant on on boarding flows okay like how

you think about it so I my belief is

right you can have the best app in the

world the best branding in the world but

if you don't have a good onboarding flow

then you're just wasting your money it's

not as easy as just throwing cash at an

influencer and then making a video and

you to to be successful if you haven't

prepped the user before you ask them to

pay it's not going to work so there

there's a fine line between having

fatiguing onboarding flows to the point

where they just leave and give up and

also having a high enough intent where

they stay and like okay I'm going to pay

I've come this far I'm going to pay it's

the same analogy with gamblers they're

not chasing a loss necessarily they're

chasing something back for all the time

they spent in the casino it's the same

way right

so like what I usually say to people is

look at our oning and just revamp it

towards your Niche because we've

perfected it I mean you've seen my mix

panel that you can't really get much

better than that it's only 99s across

the bo yeah literally so yeah there's a

fine line if we had no onboarding I

doubt we would have we would have this

high of a conversion rate in our pay we

wouldn't I don't even I think it be like

the answer would be no like I think yeah

sure we got distribution I'm bring us to

the platform but how are they going to

they're not going to pay if they don't

know what they're doing I think it's the

single most important thing in consumer

apps and I think a bigger thing too is

thinking about like landing pages right

vsls when people even in the course

industry right they the vssl on the

landing page they throw you through this

thing it's basically the same thing for

just applying the same Concepts it's all

psychology right grant card own does the

same thing all all these people that

have you go through these landing pages

of quizzes and this and that they're

basically prepping you to be like all

right I need this product you to realize

I need it you're telling them why you

need it mhm you're instilling ideas in

the brain

get like an internal commitment and

exactly act on it this this is a fun for

if we removed our onboarding and also

removed like our hard pay wall we

wouldn't have had 99% of the revenue we

have today but because of those two

things a hard payall and a long

onboarding that's the reason we so if it

was just straight to a premium product

put your email make your account and

then just try the product out and then

maybe you can pay for after 14 days we

would maybe have 10K on Revenue ah so

it's literally the art is in the onboard

I recommend everyone to go through their

onboarding right now and just do it

while I'm talking but it's going through

those the onboarding asking those

questions showing the social proof

diagnosing yourself showing the actual

reviews asking for a review then saying

make a commitment for yourself so

framing the money as like an investment

in yourself those it's all about the

language that's being used in there but

yeah again like the honestly if if

you're getting it to Consumer apps and

you you're hitting people with a hard

payall if your onboarding isn't

optimized you're not going to make much

money the hard pay basically is a longer

version of the question is why do you

want this product why are you here we're

on a sales call why are you

here I'm no longer selling you I'm

asking you like why are you here and I'm

trying to get them to answer and they're

going to tell you for your themselves

why they need your product and then the

sell is easy it's like a sales call

script in general you ask questions

that's why I'm saying all this stuff is

from the same principles of sales and

onb like we call it onboarding in mobile

app space but it's called funnels and

landing pages

yeah so interesting are there like

principles like are there like

uh I guess the best word is principles

for onboarding that you're like trying

to check the box like okay now we need

the social proof now we need the like

what are they that asking for a review

early that's one of them social proof

explaining what the app does and

explaining the the problem solving yeah

the outcome that's the most important

part very simple and just keeping it

long because you you want to filter out

all those people that aren't serious and

those that are serious will stick to the

end and eventually pay if you have it

too short as I said like that's you're

going to fail interesting did you have

it like did you just know onboarding was

good right the first time you did it or

has this been an iterative process that

you sent more traffic like how did you

get to this point where it's like 99%

across the board I think in the early

days we just studied the top apps that

were making the most money and what we

did is we screenshot every little bit of

experience put it all in a figma line it

all up and be like okay look all these

apps are doing this this this they're

making 5 million 6 million what if we

ripped that strategy and just applied it

to our Niche and that's exactly what we

did and we just realized it converted

very well so just did the research then

but still thought creatively about how

it applied uniquely to your product

that's a good principle interesting it

works it works I'm a marketer I love

talking about marketing I'm very curious

how you guys have got this in the world

four months to quarter million dollars

in Revenue it's pretty nuts 17 19 and 22

even crazier so quar million this month

by the way yeah yeah quar million this

month in a single month we also did uh

we went a video went viral we did 40K in

a day and across like a 65h hour period

we did 100K in sales can I see that

video yeah we'll here I would love to

see it can I show it on screen okay

yeah I got 9.9 million views um funny

story I was sleeping and they're 5 hours

ahead and I get woken up at 6:00 a.m.

and Alex was like I don't give a [ __ ]

that you're tired like wake up check

check your telegram like how many

followers does he have uh like 2 million

how much did he charge he got 1. how

much is the retainer can I ask um we're

paying we're paying $3 per thousand

views and he's giving us a million views

a month guaranteed but we pay bonuses on

top of that so do you do a flat retainer

at all like like $500 a month plus $3

per thousand views no we just do I just

base the retainer off of a $32 to3 CPM

depending on how good they are and so if

they're I don't know how well they're

going to convert I'll do two and maybe

they want like two and a half but I tell

them hey we're going to pay you let's

say two grand for 1.5 million views or 1

million straight and they could be like

Oh I like that I don't like that got um

Jeremiah specifically we were're paying

$3 per thousand views so we're getting a

million views but on top of that like

we're paying him a hefty bonus what's

the bonus um right now we pay a couple

hundred bucks for million dollar views

but we're paying him it's like but just

tiered on views you don't to tell me the

number um tiered on views but for this

we didn't even think this would happen

so I'm just paying I'm just throwing him

a couple Grand I'm like I'm like here's

okay three to five grand thank you

interesting and then we're going to bump

up as retainer next month interesting

this is the marketing strategy for why I

joined WAP and what we're building into

the product so would love to talk we can

chat I would love to talk to this what I

find fun this is this is like this whole

CPM based Performance Based pay is like

going to be massive so very curious on

how we can build it better for you but

this is so this is something you're

building with like multiple different

creators we have so initially a strategy

was and I think going back to like

ground zero so took three grand and I

was like it's influencers that was the

thesis I built and so I was like Alex

trust there's a point which we'll get

into this as well Alex was doing Reddit

marketing and Twitter marketing and for

some reason he'd go viral on Twitter and

Reddit and he'd be like what the hell

are you doing man I'm doing all the

marketing getting all the sales like

what are you doing with your time I'm

like trust trust and so basically I'd

find creators um in the religious and

fitness Niche Fitness was more like

think trickle down Andrew Tate like very

self-help aggro like he's Mr 3:00 a.m.

he's like go out 3: a.m. grind and so we

targeted those and I paid like 50 bucks

to do a one-on-one Consulting call with

a religious Creator and I pitched him

and he's like all right let's do it and

then that was our first thousand day and

then it it slowly built from that um but

the strategy on how we turned three

grand into I'd say like around 40 was

because I would basically only pay 20%

up front and the rest of the money would

come after the contract was over and

after got paid by Apple and so I just

like convince them to be like all right

money's coming from Apple pay you then

how is the contract 20% up front if you

don't know how many views they're going

to get you're choosing their average no

we do a view guarantee we're like on

average if you post a video about this

you get 250,000 views so that one video

posted on Instagram and Tik Tok is half

a million views okay so for four videos

right that's 2 million views we'll pay

you 4 grand 20% up front it was mainly

around half a million views so you're

still choosing the CPM based stuff the

CPM is how we pitch the retainer we're

not telling them it's $3 per thousand

views oh that's just an internal thing

that's just an internal so I know I'm

like okay I can get Brett to get me

500,000 views I'm willing to pay him at

most $1,500 I'm going to pitch you

$1,000 for half a million views you're

like I don't know all right how's 1250

so you're just deciding we we'll pay a

influencer $2 to3 CPM and then you just

go go D they have 100,000 on average so

I'm going to give them two 200 bucks

that makes sense if they can get me

100,000 views per month it's 300 bucks

yes but you'll find is's no creators

going to do that because they have an

ego so you have to find people that can

get you at least half a million to a

million views a month for four videos

it's four cumulative add why is it four

videos um I just found that's what works

is just like two that probably had a

little a little effort to that it makes

sense also like why we would pay them

gotcha I'm no offense to that guy I'm

just surprised does he like making

content similar to this like just very

he makes content for a lot of apps I

mean it's also he posts like five six

times a day are Fitness people like

looking to take their shirts off or

something cuz like that's like a very

vulnerable he's like in his underwear in

his bed I think it's also a lot of a lot

of guys that have conquered porn

addiction want to help the younger

people and that's what we've realized a

lot of them are like I'm porn free I

want to help the next guy and I'm

willing to make relatable content to

help them quit boom is there any sort of

affiliate model for them we've we're

working on that we've done a will'll pay

you x per thousand views like a $2 CPM

but the issue is with apple the

attribution to find out where the money

came in from you can't know you can kind

of like figure it out back of a napkin

okay like we made this much from this

post but we can't guarantee that like

Brett brought in $100,000 as most people

are going to just go search the app

organically on the open the app store

exactly gotcha interesting and so you

just like tackled different niches this

it's so smart it's like showing the

emotional pain point someone in the

state of your Target demographic and

then to fix it they just are demoing the

app right it's not like hey if you guys

have a porn addiction go to quitter it's

like acting like showing the experience

there's that but then there's also

hitting pain points so the religious

Creator would be like the devil's coming

after you commit the lust Etc here are

top three ways to quit and then the

second thing would be use tools here's a

tool that I like to use called quitter

he's like I track my steak streak on it

Etc gotcha and so with religion it's

against God Fitness is low testosterone

no gains Etc self-help is like SE

retention so it's what's the value of

quitting porn it's not that you stop

jerking off it's that you have higher

energy you talk to girls you know how to

talk to women you can actually find a

wife and stop like jerking off the only

fans um that's the value you're getting

interesting not just the action stopping

the value is on the back end of like you

actually become a man instead of being a

little boy yeah but you know how to

speak to each Target toate graphic and

what they value like their value system

almost exactly that's so smart so we get

to play around with so many different

creators and so many different niches

and now we're working on targeting

larger creators to get them the post to

not have a huge influencer team because

it's it's very hard to track to know Roi

and them were basically in the contract

allowing to run their stuff as ads for

as long as our contracts with them

so um it's piggybacking have you so what

we're doing is we're creating these I

call it view rewards where you pay

people based off every thousand views

they get retroactively so like if you

say hey I'll pay you $3.50 for every

th000 views you get post a video then

submit your video once it has 200,000

views have you ever tried that is is

that for influencers or organic creators

like Tik Tok shop creators anybody but

yeah definitely more like ugc style I

think ugc style that works influencers

but influencers like they have agents

and they have this and they have that

and they're like a lot of it is do they

resonate with the brand does it resonate

with their content so that's why also

like in sourcing influencers I know who

I'm going to talk to and who I'm not

going to talk to because I'm like this

is a waste of time gotcha how many

people did it how many influencers were

on retainer and how many videos went out

to hit 250k a month

this month we probably have five or six

but I also think what happened was we

had two or three to do 100K in our first

90 days mhm um and then it wasn't a lot

it was like three to four and then we

started leveraging paid ads using that

stuff as paid ads so this month was

wasn't just influencers it was a

combination of paid ads and influencers

and also going viral so you start with

paid ad or you start with Organic

influencers I think influencers is the

way you can boot trap get gritty get off

the ground and then the next step is is

paid ads and then organic it could be

organic or influence I we have friends

that do a couple hundred grand a month

off of Just organic just depends on what

want to do so the organic is like test

some messaging test some demographics

find something that works do they let

you use their videos as ads yeah we have

it in the contract usage rights though

yep yep okay some of them want more

money there's a premium pay for that on

some creators but interesting it's it's

generally worth it what are the ads like

I guess it just those videos or are you

making different types yeah like we rip

that video as an ad and it's probably

lowest your cost your best performing ad

yeah wow I I'm like it's really simple

for me to understand it's so like it's

so straightforward it's like like it's

logical when you get through it you know

like when you're doing it but like

there's so many like I have friends

that'll text me like hey like I don't

mind helping some friends that we came

up with like in the app game we were

failing but like there's so many

nitty-gritty questions I'm like just try

it just test it I don't know what this

influenc is going to say just send the

email and see if they'll take the deal

worst case they say no and what's your

intro message what's your first Outreach

message cuz I think that's really smart

to pay people like I think a lot of

people overlooked the fact you just

reach out like hey can I pay you for an

hour of your time to get your foot in

the door if it's like worth it and then

that was for that was just me thinking

like what's the best way to reach

someone right so you have social media

channels assume someone has 200k

followers you can DM them on Instagram

and Tik Tok odds are not going to

respond right it's a low chance they're

going to respond they might or they

could have in their bio Consulting call

right 30 40 50 bucks 100 bucks or they

could have an email so what I usually do

is DM at the bat I dm' everyone just to

have that out there they had to pay

consult called that was not like 500

bucks I did it some I probably wasted

150 bucks on some they're like I don't

know I don't like this you guys are too

young whatever just starting and then an

email and then it's just a number game

it's volume you're not going to the

first 100 people probably won't respond

and now we have we've set up a team of

uh virtual assistants out in Pakistan

shout out Omar um who he basically runs

through all the DMs I basically got him

privy on our strategy of finding

creators who we want to work with Etc

and then we just hit him with a paid

promo work quitter we helped you quit

porn we have 100,000 plus users X Y and

Z if you're interested in working simply

reply or send us your number yeah I

think the paid permit part in the

beginning is really important cuz when

you see a message request like the first

line means the most you're not going to

click on every single one if you see

paid promo no one's going to leave money

on the table they're going to click on

it so the first word in your Outreach

message is paid promo for your and on

top of that we run it through our

quitter account um and Alex was very

heavy on that the beginning I didn't

realize this but if you have a verified

account it bumps it in the inbox yeah

yeah yeah I didn't know that but that's

been super helpful that's good to know

we should be doing that from our WAP

account wow we're doing it from our

employees account thank you instantly

going to change that helpful okay so

first line it's from your main brand

account that's verified first line is

paid promo for this person where this

app this is what we help you do social

proof of 100,000 users so it's not some

scam it's more just like like you said

paid promo they see oh I can get paid

with this second thing is who we are

social proof respond keep it short and

sweet I'm not here to convince you to

work with us do you tell them how much

you're going to pay them right away so I

never tell them how much I'd willing to

pay them via text okay I always VI do it

via call because the moment I say four

videos a month this and that they run

away if I'm on a call man it's Central

you're just trying to get them on a call

because if if you do it over messages

you give them a lot of space to like

think about it and negotiate whereas if

you get on a call like they're very in

the moment it's very easy to say yes

interesting you give them too much space

they're not going to that's when I

realized I was like pretty I had a knack

for sales I was like oh this is fun like

I can just get people on like it's

pretty easy like hey like I don't know

if I feel about this and it's was like

well do you like really want to help

people how much do you post we can make

this work um I don't know about the view

guarantee well on average you get this

many views we've never had someone not

have the view guarantee worst case you

post another post it's like no harm no

foul it's a good pitch dude it's fun I

can see the joy in your face it's a game

bro I think it's also part of it is they

know they're helping opportunity they're

helping people like it's not like we're

an app I don't know it's not like we're

only fans calling influencers to create

content to like a like help it is a

pitch of like you will help the people

that are struggling with this in your

audience and it's like think about when

you were young and a kid in middle

school or high school kids are doing it

even younger now because school bro we

had iPod Touches and everybody in Middle

School UNC consensually I would just get

shown at lunch I'm terrified for my my

my cousin man he's he's young and I'm

like they had phones now in like fifth

grade there's only fans they don't

realize the algorithm is targeting them

it's weaponized against them bro for a

profit brain rot rewiring brain rot we

it's a big word around here can someone

please invent a crystal ball until then

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episode that's kind of I'm very

surprised that only five or six

influencers got you to six figures yeah

it feels like we're just starting like

we are just starting we we've come a

long way considering how many pieces

aren't super refined yet yeah four

months in there's a lot of noise that

came in the door as well like in

beginning when we hit our first 30k

month people try to come in take Equity

um things like that we had no agreement

for the first probably 45 days between

us Alex was like well if you're putting

your money like I remember Alex was like

if you're putting three grand into this

what happens if it doesn't work out

between us I was like dude just pay me

back in the future I don't care I here

to build a relationship and something

awesome like I don't it is what it is

that's but yeah we had a bunch of people

come in like I mean it it wasn't like

all sunshine or rainbows like people see

the Twitter and they're like oh my God

you this much like it's so easy this and

that but like it was it was it wasn't it

wasn't easy how Hands-On are you with

the influencers on the type of video

they make so now I usually have them

send me a draft we require them to show

the app in every video um there's

certain requirements on the caption of

the video and things of that nature of

like just the bio of the video um but

when it comes down to if I really don't

like it I'll say something also depends

like some creators won't do the view

guarantee we're paying them like eight

grand a month because of who they are

and we know we can run it as ads and

it'll work but I need to make sure the

video is a certain way to get views and

convert so I'm very Hands-On with those

so the view guarantee meaning I'll pay

you $1,500 if you

get what three like what is it no I'll

pay you it's like hey Brett look you

usually get 100,000 views a video um and

what we'll do is you give me four videos

a month minimum for 500,000 views

minimum per month and I'll pay you $1500

okay so you have to hit 500,000 views

four videos so if you hit 10 million

views your first video you still ow us

three more videos Okay so let's say you

were pay me $1,000 you give me $200

today yep and then I'd get $800 once I

posted those four and hit those views

yep and if you didn't hit the views you

post again one more until you hit the

views oh you keep posting you have to

hit it until and then I say in the

contract if it comes to a point of you

can't hit the views we'll PR rate your

contract okay so we'll give you 700 out

of a th000 yeah because you have 700,000

views or whatever and we also encourage

them to post on Tik Tok as well so multi

Channel gotcha but still four videos

posted across platform not four posts

it's four videos eight posts technically

interesting and then you just are

allowed to use those as ads whenever you

want it's in the contract usage rights

yep I think it's a big thing is like you

said playing into ego and also checking

ego because a lot of them like for

example if you guarantee a lot of them

are like I don't know man and I'm like

look it's your job to make videos and

get views I am basing this contract off

of what you get on average so if you

don't get this on average why am I

paying you and it's our job to convert

the users to keep paying you gotcha and

that's where the product comes in right

like we couldn't I feel like we pay like

pretty I don't know it's pretty

expensive but we can do that because the

onboarding that they designed and

developed and built in the product works

interesting absolutely there a't no Yin

without Yang yeah facts so I'm curious

did you you said you were marketing on

Twitter in the beginning so is it just

Instagram and Tik Tok right now we have

some Twitter stuff going out I think

right now it's just we we had so much

going on I was like it's too noisy let's

scale back let's figure out where we're

putting money what the return getting

our money and so now I'm just building

out making sure that okay does this have

an Roi yes or no does this influence

have an Roi yes or no get rid of them

get the next guy so we're building

basically right now A Lead list of warm

leads of influencers being like hey I'll

work with you next month I don't know if

it'll be next month or the month after

but point being is we'll bring them in

if someone else falls off so we control

that Twitter something or on any

strategies there and then organic paid

ads and then eventually just larger

Partnerships like theovon um cool just

like ad to his podcast or something yep

like George jenko like mail podcast yeah

okay hopefully Andrew Tate maybe someday

partner with Discord that' be huge that

makes sense it seems like you have a lot

of surface area to go so there's no

we're in the beginning this is like

we're scratching the surface of what

could possibly be so cool man that's so

exciting now obviously I'm not going to

say start another business or anything

but like do you feel like there's like a

like this could work if you were to

start if you had to like shut this app

down and you had to make a new one is

would you just do the exact same steps

like it's a very replicable thing it's

super easy a lot of people overco

complicate it but it's just really easy

I mean the way I I I wrote a TW tweet on

this once and it went viral it was like

okay we we pay X Creator they get y

views that generates Z downloads

generates a revenue we reinvest a

revenue into more B distribution and

that whole cycle piece itself

interesting how many followers do you

have on Twitter like seven like8 8,000

now how many did you have like I reached

out to you like a month and a half ago I

think I'll see any if anyone ever DM me

I'll see it and I literally just found

you organically on Twitter when you had

like 2,000 followers and then I watched

the one YouTube video you have and I'm

like I like this kid and I'm going to

invite him on the part which one did you

watch you were like outside of a house

was it B oh no no it was in the party it

was you out you were almost like crying

you were so excited yeah yeah oh yeah

this is this is a funny story actually

so up to August 2024 I was dead broke

literally no money to my name me and

Zach so Zach was on your podcast

everyone who's probably watching this

saw that Zack podcast as well we bumped

into each cover in Miami cuz we both

snuck into a hotel and yeah and and he

was making like 1K a month at the time I

was making zero I was super fascinated

like what you're making one grand a

month through software like that's

insane um and then he got into apps I

followed that journey and I went from

dead broke to you know 250k in a month

and in about a year and look at Zach now

he's doing like 1.5 million a month so

that random event in in Miami bumping

into into him at a hotel like that was

such a moment for this space honestly

it's so interesting bro I found you

independently from him too which is

crazy but you it's just so like do you

have like other friends that are the

same age yeah I think the build space

event I went to um people I met at that

event are also now making waves in the

space is it the same strategy just like

the same Prett much pretty much like

just consumer apps and then I mean

there's so many distribution angles like

people can do faceless content

carousels um influencers won't always

work for every product like the Ed Tech

space right fun in like doing AI writing

tools and stuff there's not really

influencers you can hire for that but

they all just rip each other's organic

content post the same style with their

own organic creators and they all go

viral again and they make like 50 cents

per download or per paid user and I'm

like that's CRA like their margins are

so SL it's getting really refined though

I I see what you're saying huh there's a

lot you can do and there's a lot of

space to do I just think there's no

one-sized fits all like someone might

watch and be like oh my God I do

influencers it's like evaluate are there

influencers in your Niche that will work

yes yes or no look at the other strategy

test them all and then hammer down what

works is there a clear pain point is

there a value system you could speak to

that's just marketing though like the

how to how to talk to people

copyrighting so I'm curious what tools

you guys use to build all this like

first off we'll start with product I I

have a ton of design questions I we'll

get to design I promise but what tools

did you use to actually like how did you

code it with swift or what yeah yeah so

pretty much Swift chat GPT Firebase the

real simple what is Firebase so it's a

database so you can store like all the

community features are stored what are

you using chbt for just to help me build

features that I haven't learned myself

to code basically so if I'm like like

for instance the whole Community feature

I just asked chat to code it for me and

it coded your app like that a lot of it

a lot of it yeah a lot of it yeah are

you like a trained programmer like how

long have you been developing I think

I've been coding for about two three

years now and my first project was

rebuilding Twitter in from scratch with

swift UI so you just use Swift chat to

help you and then Firebase yeah is there

and your devel or designer figma I

assume exactly anything else literally

just figma nice so I give adex the

designs and he literally just Crees it

how' you do those animations that are

like follow is that just a video the

animations follow the ball to breathe

with the ball that's code that's code

okay so what other I saw that onboarding

screenshot was mix panel so all of your

like data to see like onboarding metrics

what where people fall off using mix

panel y yeah any other tools that you're

using super W SQL super wall super wall

we use for payall so we can AB tests on

the Fly and test different pricing

different designs and then also monitor

the results so super wall super wall and

that's in the app like integrated into

the App Store yeah it's like a it's like

a Plugin or something it's yeah it's a

package it's a separate entity but you

put it into a package and Swift that you

that you just put in into the app and

then in real time you can up the one

thing that's cool is super actually took

my payable and used it as a template on

their website anyone who like has an app

of their own can Lally go on the website

template did they ask permission for

that no they they just stole our pay so

high converting so you designed it with

their tool they've got like a internal

like design like allart custom build and

then you just designed made a really

good custom build like temp using some

assets from Adobe I just bring it on and

now they're just that's a compliment bro

hell yeah um I'd say on the distribution

side of things so I mean Scrappy built a

system with VAs on the back end using

Google Sheets finding creators um where

where did you find the Vas funny enough

sophomore year I graduated from

Villanova in May civil engineering then

found myself in the sophomore space wild

yeah um but while I was there sophomore

year I was flipping websites and I met

this guy through Fiverr Omar and we

stayed in touch and he's done work for

me for the past what five years so he

found your VR on Fiverr yeah like

sophomore year so what that's no it's

like four years ago now wow and um

always stay in touch with him super good

English because his dad was American

clutch nothing better than a good VA

there's no ever like a um barrier I

guess to speaking with him and then I

was like you want to do work and he was

like yeah and so now he's handling a

sourcing putting on a Google sheet dming

them and then to manage them actually we

use a platform called groy um so I

actually think that the developer used

to work at [ __ ] really uh Solomon I think

we talked about this the other day yeah

so you do groy for INF grow basically

helps manage our entire like from we

haven't filled of forms keep them in an

otion database but once they get on

board to grow how we pay them contracts

you pay them through grow

yeah and then basically Gro and Chi they

posted four videos eight posts across

Tik Tok and Instagram they hit the view

guarantee and we can pay out and it

tracks the amount of views they have yep

cool man so that makes our life so much

easier yeah for sure and I can focus on

just texting them to make sure hey did

this get posted what's the video looking

like it's a lot of following up can you

talk to them directly through groy um no

there's SMS blasts but I haven't used

that yet I just created a group chat

with the um I hired someone to help

manage creators now so I can focus on

the organic stuff and some other moves

we're making but interesting do you have

any automations use text SMS email at

all um we have an email uh automation

just to zappier once we confirm they

sign the contract we check it off in

notion they get an onboarding email to

make sure that we sent them this is how

it's supposed to be done if you don't do

this you will not get paid are you using

a docu sign or like a oh we use

agree.com agree.com but for contracts

yep do you have any text automations or

emails natively in the product what to

to download yeah yeah I mean we collect

all the emails in the on boarding so

they can we hit with a wall where you

can sign in with Google Apple or Skip

and if you do sign in then we have the

email stored we'll just send them email

automations if they haven't bought a

subscription yet the design seems pretty

important though like especially in the

consumer social space so like what was

the thought process behind it you said

you made it cool so it's all

black we just wanted to give the

impression that it's a premium product

and if something's premium people are

more willing to pay for it how do you do

that I I think you just need to make

everything really simple refined and use

good fonts and colors and just make that

whole experience enjoyable what font do

you use TM sounds it's Google font what

is it DM SS is that's like the whole

product yeah that font yeah what else

were you saying um yeah so I mean if we

just have all these different things

that come in conjunction to build a

brand people are more willing to pay but

if it looks Scrappy and just put

together like no one's going to pay for

that interesting I feel like that's like

the number one thing I saw all people

struggle with when I used to make

content on software is design was always

atrocious is there like

so that's the font is there anything

else like padding distance or like so we

use a a principle where we only use

multiples of four so the same size as

the text like the text size would be a

multiple of four so it be 12 16 18 terms

of the pading it will follow the same

principle so it would do about eight

pixels away from the border interesting

that allows the app to be just very

clean as Alex was saying like Sleek um

so if any designers are listening to

this follow that one principle use a m

for for everything you do with design

yeah interesting I think a lot of apps

get that wrong they just they think just

cuz they built a product and they're

solving a solution that is going to sell

but there's so much more at play that

you have to get the brand nailed like

you have to get the brand nailed like we

initially started with the app name

called noap so the whole movement is

called nofap so if we just leverage that

name as our app name then the SEO would

go crazy that was trademark so we

couldn't do it but quitter now it's like

look get on quitter quit porn and it it

works that makes sense yeah it's great

looking back at it too it's kind of

funny how this all happened I love

growth he loves product and he loves

design and it's like looking back at it

you never would have thought it would

all just meshed because you could look

you could build an app make it really

crappy nail distribution then get money

slowly build it better you could build a

back app product heavy and have little

distribution but has a high K Factor but

I think what makes this work is that we

all genuinely work together and it works

what's churn looking like looked at it

today retention rates I'd say they're

above average for the industry when we

looked at it for 30day 90day or 60 day

and 120 day mhm so okay how do you how

have you combed churn or what would be

steps to combat churn um I honestly

don't think we've looked into it much MH

yeah that's one of the things that's on

our road map and that's why we say we're

so far behind in so many ways because we

haven't thought about this stuff you

probably don't have enough data to

really we don't either we sell mostly

yearly plans to retention doesn't matter

cuz once they pay us we got their money

we just reinvest it but to answer your

question I think that reten

and preventing churn comes down to

building authority so we reached out to

some YouTube pod not YouTube YouTubers

who are really well connected in the

whole like uh your brain how to protect

your brain anti- porn anti- this and

when I talk to them it was very

professional they're like well if we

want to work with it you guys you have

to do a study for six months we'll put

people through it make sure it works

this and that that and this blah blah

blah blah blah blah a whole board that

approves you and I it made me realize I

was like the next step is involving

things of that nature where you go do

close studies you figure out everything

and then you involve the scientist neur

neurologist it's true research study

interesting and then that's I think when

you get to the next level where it's

like you could have one-on-one support

like you could have high ticket

offers um I think also making the app

more customizable but like you said we

don't have enough data to do that right

now High ticket offer absolutely makes

sense that's so interesting it's it's

like an info product in a way but with a

very nice UI a very good like an actual

product behind it streamline information

and actual like tools and everything the

community the community part is the

biggest mode we have though yeah because

you can consume all the resources use

the tools and they' be defunct but like

the community stays forever what am I

not asking was there anything this is

where my lack of research might not

serve me how do how do you get to the

next level what's next yeah okay cool I

think I actually made this tweet earlier

but I deleted

it it was it was I wrote project liquid

Def and I'm sure you're aware like they

just sell water but they what1 million

do billion dollar

how do they get to that point through

great branding and you know all these

stunts that they do and I think you know

porn is such a like only fans and stuff

is such a big thing but the the the

other aspect of that is is our app it's

very unknown so I think if we pull IRL

stunts like we go to these porn star uh

IRL conventions and we just throw purple

paint everywhere we're reing the purple

by the way if you want to put we're

becoming a like purple La basically like

anti-

orange right why is everything Orange in

that industry I have no idea no idea

it's like every restaurant's red so

every one of those sites are typically

orange But but so that's why purple just

because it's the opposite of and I think

it's something like imagine you I mean

this would be a stunt but like imagine

you found where like I don't know only

fan models are hanging out and you just

throw like purple like goo on them as

like a YouTube video and it's like what

the hell is this and it's like quit

neutralized them well you like a

GoFundMe on Twitter's whole like app no

the those viral stunts are like really

effective your goal is to aim for viral

what Mar supposed to be exactly yeah

other than scaling right we want to

scale influencers organic's a huge push

we haven't even tapped into that yet at

all um paid ads Twitter multi- channel

right partners with churches dioses

things of that nature there's a big one

but other than that it's like Alex said

we need to really solidify ourselves as

the brand yeah I mean you guys are in

the position now that you rank number

one that you have the direct to Consumer

stuff down but like if you really want

to scale up it's all about brand

awareness exactly and just getting that

word in people's heads to the point

where they if they ever associate you

know I have a problem I need to go to

that thing you guys it's a really good

product it's very clear what you do it's

like it also justifies spending 50 grand

for a podcast plug with Theo right it's

like we don't know if this is going to

convert to make us 50 Grand on the

podcast but our goal right now is

awareness Tak risks yeah you

need and that brand Association yeah so

I mean our our strategy is has shifted a

lot recently now we're just putting

money up to ads so we have like 40 Grand

a month in spend and it's bringing in I

don't know like three or four row as and

now we're we're thinking about just

stunts because that one video with

Jeremiah that reached $100,000 in a day

that showed us how valuable virality is

and so if we optimize for that we should

be you know you know Luca Nets you ever

heard of lucet py penguins he he was the

CMO of Jael blasters which is the number

one selling toy America and that's all

they did was just challenges like they

did like the gel blasters like driveby

challenge you just like stay to drive by

I think it's a bit hard for on TI to an

anti-p porn company I I like your idea

of like getting doing it with the the

villains of the industry oh no that was

the that was the thought yeah I mean

it's like scaling paid ads influencers I

think a big thing with influencers that

Their audience is primed for the product

and that's why it works so well um but

I'm curious to see like for example

Jeremiah how does it work in four months

it still convert the same way um if he's

still going viral he's going to reach

new people so it should if you're not

going viral maybe it's a thre Monon all

right we're we're going have this for

three months to move to the next guy and

then we can also invest comedians

skits um partnership general just like

he said virality go to Time Square and

like just pop goo on everyone that'll

work imagine we found like all the child

Predators living in New York City and

targeted them with like goo yeah that

would get part with Vitality on

thatal like that'd be crazy we're we're

we just lined up a tweet where it's

going to be like quitter in talks to

purchase PornHub and and shut it

down everyone be like who the hell is

quitter yeah exactly but people like it

and be like finally thank God someone's

taking action Grand awareness is going

to help us so much it's also that's like

a whole that's like a figure till you

make it right we're no position to buy

por or anyone well just like a troll as

long as you're liart and fun about it

and not actually like going out of to

make it look like extremely real it's

just like funny I literally saw

yesterday on Twitter someone acting like

he's the new head of listings at

coinbase and he changed that to his bio

and he's getting like millions of

Impressions and everyone thinks it's

real they're all like list my coin I'm

like guys

God so I don't know the I don't know the

legality of these strategies but all it

know is it gets attention that's I mean

we're targ these are like me Pages yeah

funny they get a lot of it's like a what

is it uh the Bee or something what the

onion type of stuff yeah exactly that's

interesting I have a a format that we

just did that would crush for you guys

I'll show you guys right after this it

got like 300K views on our first time

like first day and it's just super

subliminal but it would work perfectly

for what you guys do too is there

anything else you guys want to go

through I think this is like I like to

keep it concise straight to the point

how the strategy Works what you

emphasize with onboarding I think this

marketing strategy the design principles

and then that onboarding flow is really

what made the appak I got two things

right so one everything has to be

holistic to be exceptional and to work

fluidly if you're lacking in one area

you're not going to kill the whole thing

yeah exactly right another thing is if

you're going into marketing show the app

in the video mhm I think Zach said this

as well if you don't show the app you're

not going to make as much money like

we've had videos reached like multiple

millions of views but they've only

brought in like, $2,000 cuz we have quit

P quitter in the actual description we

don't have them sh the app so I don't

think views matter necessarily if you if

you're not showing the app oh you need

to show the app yeah you need no for

this strategy that's like the key it's

like organically the app is being used

in the app but Sol the problem also it's

understanding that look paino either

show it tell it and then the app's

solution like I just got rid of probably

$10,000 with a contract value yesterday

because we realize we signed them

they're going to integrate the product

into the video but they want to

integrate it a minute two minutes and

I'm like no and then they're like I I

was like let's just give us a refund

we'll pay for your time let it be like

it's not going to work but it's like

they have the target audience but it

doesn't work with the video so it's not

worth the views that we're paying for

makes sense you have to learn that

through iteration oh exactly I think

another thing to mention is also don't

procrastinate if you have an app idea

and you have a way to do it just build

it right you don't have to be

exceptional just to start my first app

failed I'm pretty sure his first app

like just go do it don't like be perfect

like you don't have the perfect words on

the DM like just go send DMS to 2,000

influencers and see who responds and the

next 2,000 change it up like you don't

want to procrastinate and then just

nothing happens you stay where you are

so I think that's a huge piece of this

like you really just need to just like

try it over and over and over and over

and then one day it'll hit mhm and stop

Reinventing the will all these million

dollar apps have done the research Navy

testing for you why why do you think

you're different M you know so it's like

start as fast as possible take reference

from people who are the best at what

they do get your thing out there don't

overthink the onboarding put effort into

it but get it out basically pretty much

and find what works solve a problem and

if you can't solve a problem make

someone problem aware and then solve

that problem that's the marketing lingo

we left right there there we

go all right well guys I appreciate you

coming all the way out here cross the

ocean for me you coming acoss country

from DC appreciate you where can they

people will find you if they want to

reach out to you um Twitter Twitter what

your handle um bread boy Mac nice I'll

link in the description Alex Slater two

L's Chris SL two US awesome well guys if

you're looking to make build an app

reach out to them I'm sure they'll help

you I appreciate you guys coming on

sharing everything thanks for having us

fun conversation you guys are beast keep

crushing it