The Best Way to Deliver Bad News (according to science)

Hey, I know this is coming out of

nowhere, but I don't think this is

working out anymore. I think we should

break up.

Something that most people struggle with

is confrontation. How are we supposed to

tell bad news to someone that we care

about? And it's one thing if we didn't

have to do it so often, but the truth is

confrontation is inevitable.

Then whether it's a romantic

relationship, a family, your co-workers,

or your friends, eventually you're going

to have to say something that they're

not going to like, you're going to have

to prioritize yourself and what you want

over what they want. It's uncomfortable.

There's a high chance that someone's

going to get mad. There's a high chance

that someone's going to get hurt. Or

worst case scenario, a meaningful bond

of yours is going to end in anger,

animosity, and resentment.

So, is there a way to avoid this? Is

there a way to get better at

confrontation? Does it have to be so

scary? Or is there a science to feeling

more prepared?

>> You're actually serving a

>> These are my friends, Lucas, Macy, and

Belco. And earlier this week, I told

them to come by the studio to be part of

a small video. Ladies and gentlemen, up

until this point, you three have no idea

what's about to happen. This video

is about confrontation.

Oh no.

>> I am very glad to be a host of this

video and not one of the contestants.

>> Little do they know that over the past

month, I've created these social

situations with hired actors that

they're going to have to enter.

>> Dude, I'm so I'm the worst. Like, I hate

confronting people.

>> In my pocket,

I have three situations. There's an easy

situation.

>> God damn it.

>> There's a medium difficulty one, and

there's quite a hard one. All right.

Velco hard.

>> I'm hard right now.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Lucas, you have easy.

>> Macy, you have medium.

>> And Velco, you have the hardest one. Do

not open them yet.

>> The goal is simple. Confront the actor

in the room according to a specific

scenario.

>> Well, I just This is super awkward. I

don't like to do this.

>> Step one in learning how to confront

better, watch it happen live. And step

two, naturally take that footage across

the country to a clinical psychologist

to psychoanalyze what they did right and

wrong.

>> On the system level, boy, is she setting

up a disaster.

>> Meet Dr. Weiss. She's an ambassador for

applied compassion at Stanford and just

an incredible therapist. She's someone

that uses neuroscience, compassion, and

trauma research to guide her practice.

So basically, she's one of the best to

analyze my friends. This video is one of

my favorites. So, grab your popcorn,

maybe a notebook, click subscribe, and

enjoy.

>> All right. If you want to repeat the

question into the answer, you

>> got it.

>> Um,

on a scale of 1 to 10, how would you

rate your ability to deliver bad news?

>> My ability to deliver bad news out of 10

is probably a three. Very frequently,

we'll just never give someone bad news

and just never talk to them again.

>> Three. Four.

is the worst. Like one is the worst, 10

is the Okay. Yeah. So four.

>> I would say I'm like a eight to nine on

delivering bad news. I don't want to say

I've had a horrible life, but uh a life

filled with tragedy. Um each day I hope

is better than the last. Um and I feel

like I'm always delivering bad news.

>> Are you someone that would consider

yourself a direct person or do you beat

around the bush?

>> The bush.

I'm 100% someone that beats around the

bush. I str I I struggle a lot to be

direct.

>> If I have to deliver bad news to a

woman, I'm bad. Like if if she's a

lover, um but if like someone that she

loves is dying, like if I was dying, I

would deliver that so happily to her.

I'd be like, "This is it." So, I'd be

great at delivering that news.

>> And are you nervous for what's about to

come?

>> Yes, extremely.

>> I'm not looking forward to this at all.

And I don't even think does this one

even have a prize? I don't What am I

doing here?

>> I genuinely am excited. I have no fear

in my body. I love I love bad news. I

got bad news this morning.

>> What was the bad news this morning?

>> That I had to do this.

Let me ask you this before we get into

the like conflict resolution. Why do you

think confrontation is so uncomfortable

and why do people struggle with it?

>> We think of people being aggressive

>> and people being passive in conflict,

right? And it's a continuum with

assertiveness being the center. Passive

is I don't matter, you matter.

>> Aggressive is I matter, you don't

matter. Assertive is we both matter.

>> So putting that in the collaboration.

>> First person up, we've got Lucas.

>> Yeah,

>> Lucas. He's nervous.

I'm a little nervous, guys. Context.

You're Lucas, one of the core members of

a friend group that's been growing

lately. A few months ago, your friend

Sarah started bringing around new

people, and that's how you met

Cristiana. She's fun, social, and easy

to get along with. A couple weeks ago,

you took charge of organizing a weekend

trip to the Catkills for 12 people. You

led the charge and booked the Airbnb on

your card and texted everyone that it

would be $267 per person. Why are you

laughing? He's problem solving on how to

get his money back for the Airbnb.

>> It's been a week since the trip and the

group chat is lively with everyone

reminiscing over fun moments. You join

in the combo, but also in the back of

your head, you know you need to

eventually bring up the conversation

around the Airbnb costs. Most people

Venmoed you, but a certain few haven't,

including Cristiana. You don't want to

make things awkward, but it's $267 and

you p

67.

No, actually, don't. Please don't put

that in. Keep and you paid that full

Airbnb bill up front. You do recognize

that everyone helped out in small ways.

Cristiana handled alcohol, but you were

the one who fronted the Airbnb and even

grabbed all the snacks for the hikes.

Goal: Confront Cristiana about paying

you back for the Airbnb. You fronted the

cost everyone else paid, and it's only

fair. But you also don't want it to ruin

the friendship.

>> Honestly, I feel like this I is less

scary than what I expected.

>> So, you feel prepared?

>> No. No, I don't feel prepared. I don't

feel prepared at all. This is the more I

think about it, like actually take back

when you immediately asked me how I was

feeling, I was like, "Oh, I think I can

do this." But then I realized that she

could say no.

She could say no. I don't think that's

fair. And that's going to [ __ ] break

me.

Hi Cristiana.

>> Hey. How are you?

>> Good.

>> So good to see you.

>> Good to see you again.

>> Oh my gosh.

>> How are you?

>> Good.

>> Excited for the dinner.

>> So excited. I'm sad that we aren't away

still with so much.

>> I know. That was so fun.

>> Yeah.

>> How's How's everything been since?

>> It's been great. It's been great. Yeah.

You know, back in New York.

>> Yeah.

>> Been working. How about you?

>> Good. Um,

>> what have you been up to?

>> Jump right back into everything.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Lot of work.

>> Really busy. Really busy. Um,

>> I want to go back.

>> I feel like I

>> pause. I really appreciate that he's

taking time to build connection first.

>> Why do you think that's important?

Because there's probably some people out

there that's like, I have this goal. Let

me just go in there and like just rip

the bandage.

>> He's building the us. We matter. So,

even they're going to get into their

different I matter, you don't positions,

which just sounds like where we're

going. Um, he's honoring we matter.

>> Wow.

>> We have a history. We're shared. I care

about your life. You care about mine.

>> Yeah. It was one of those trips where

it's like a lot of fun, but for me it

was very it was like tiring, too. You

know, it's like barely got

>> Well, you organized the whole thing. It

was amazing. Thank you so much for doing

that.

>> Of course. Of course.

>> Yeah.

>> Well, I just This is super awkward. I

don't like to do this, but um uh

like basically um a couple weeks ago, I

don't know if you remember, we were um

supposed to all pay $267.

And I wanted to ask you about that uh

one thing you wanted to

>> pay that too cuz I think everybody else

has paid last week.

>> You know, I understand. I feel like, you

know, wanted to give you your time,

>> but

>> no, I totally understand. This is

beautiful. He's coming in assertive. You

matter. I matter. He's already coming up

with reasons why she might be delayed.

You know, he's already giving her grace.

>> And so that he's really doing an

excellent job. He talks about his own

awkwardness. I don't know how to do

this. Well, you can see his threat

rising. Um, you know, mirror neurons.

>> Yeah.

>> If I'm scared, you're going to get

scared. You know, emotions are

contagious. So that piece, you know,

he's like, but he's honest about it.

>> Yeah.

>> And that gives it a framing. I totally

remember agreeing to paying that because

that was fair and that was like what

everyone owed and everything,

>> but I essentially I feel like I've paid

for a lot of other things like all the

alcohol for the trip, which did equal

about the same thing. Um,

>> so I guess I haven't really thought too

deeply and that's on me as to like

>> I wanted basically I wanted to make sure

that everybody paid the same amount and

so that's why you know I I think we

agreed all before if the alcohol was

more than what we all we you know we all

pitched in for other things too. I

bought the snacks there was other people

that bought different things um the

Ubers and stuff like that. Definitely

want to make sure that you know

somebody's not spending more cuz I

understand alcohol is more expensive.

So, if you want, what we could also do

is every everybody can maybe split the

alcohol too and pitch in to make sure

that or I can, you know, I'd appreciate

to to to make sure that, you know, I get

the $2767

for the Airbnb. But, um,

>> so I think one of the pieces of wisdom

is listen better, listen more. You want

your conversation to be minimal. There

are ways he made it about him

and his own inexpertise that that were

generous and and collaborative, but

there's also this sense of not making

enough space for her. So, if you were to

figure out the percentages of time

talking, he's definitely talking more.

>> And um that's okay. That's cool. It's

not like it needs to be balanced, but a

confrontational tool is going to listen.

I did find that oftentimes when there

was a moment that was awkward, he felt

like he needed to fill the space with

another justification or another

perspective of why his point whatever

whatever he wanted to argue there.

>> But yeah, I want to make sure yeah that

everybody sort of pitching in that, you

know, around the same amount that you

don't feel like you paid overpaid, you

know that's

>> um

>> I really appreciate that. Um, I think

that sounds great. I I also like I want

to make a good I don't want to I don't

mean to fight you on you asking for what

I did say I would owe you, but I think

that would be awesome if you think it

would be okay if I were to reach out to

everyone about maybe I'll pay you the

the 267.

>> Um, and then do you think everyone would

be okay?

>> I can chat to them before. Uh,

definitely. I think like I can go back

to the group and see, you know, even

before to to make sure that that's okay

with everyone.

>> This is so beautiful.

>> This is like so good. He's already

gotten her concession, but he's hedging

a little bit here. And that's a

fascinating development. Like, what's

that about? Is he afraid his friends are

going to be pissed off? Does this

threaten his sense of self? It a little

bit feels like let me take the hit for

this, but it's also he's protecting his

relationships because or his friends

going to be mad if all of a sudden they

have to split another bill.

>> Yeah, that's true.

>> So, it's a pretty complex. This is This

is an awesome thing. I love it. Yeah.

Yeah.

>> I hope you didn't think it was too much

of an oversight that I wasn't paying. I

just

>> No worries at all. This is

>> This is great. I'm glad we

>> I'm really bad in, you know, money stuff

and you know, this is

>> I know. I wish I could just

>> pay for it all.

Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Hey, let's go.

Let's go.

>> How do you feel?

>> Here's the thing. I always like go and

try to work something out. I'm glad I

knew that you were going to be a little

hesitant to do it, but I feel like we

reached something that to me also feel

feels fair, which is it's true that if

you spent so much money on alcohol, I

don't want you to overspend, too. I

think often times people enter a

situation and they go, "This is me

versus you."

>> Yeah.

>> And what we're saying is like it doesn't

actually have to be phrased that way.

Instead of me verse you, it's actually

us versus maybe a situation.

>> Us versus a situation or us working on

us.

>> It's self and other. I know my needs.

You know your needs. We can get

separated by my needs. I need to have my

needs. You need to have your needs. But

if we think about without collaboration,

we suffer. And so if you move from you

versus me to what's going to work for

both of us, then you move to

collaboration and it becomes less

threatening. So it can be an outside

enemy. That's a really good way to do

it. We need to fight them.

>> Yeah.

>> Or it can be, you know what, our

relationship is what matters most here.

I'm gonna pass out.

>> I can't believe that's going to get

>> I'm going to pass out and I'm going to

be on medical leave.

>> Now what

context? You're Macy, a senior manager

at a small creative agency. You care

deeply about your team and pride

yourself on maintaining high standards.

Your associate Joshua is talented, but

lately you've noticed a dip in urgency.

Deadlines are getting tighter and he's

become more protective of his personal

time, logging off right at 6 p.m., even

when projects aren't done. You

understand boundaries, but this is a

small team. Everyone wears multiple hats

and sometimes you just have to push

through to keep the clients happy. This

afternoon, while reviewing tomorrow's

deliverables, you realize the client

deck still isn't finished. Something

Joshua was supposed to finalize this

morning. You message him on Should you

do Microsoft? Don't you do Microsoft

stuff? You message him on Microsoft

Teams.

>> Okay, go.

>> Microsoft Teams powered by Microsoft.

>> Yes. Yes. Okay, good. Hey Joshua, I need

to receive the final client deck by 6

p.m. today. Are we on track? He quickly

sends back, "Hey, I can get it to you

tomorrow morning." smiley face. It's

kind of passive aggressive. Goal: Get

Joshua to understand the urgency of the

situation and finish the deck tonight.

You don't see this as micromanaging. You

see it as teamwork under pressure.

You're trying to motivate him, but

underneath your composure, you're

frustrated that his idea of balance

feels like a lack of ownership.

>> Do you think you'd be a good boss?

Do you think you can do this in real

life?

>> In real life, no. Because I'm like I

think

>> you're like I'm clocked down 545.

>> I'm here and it's 4:30. So

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Hey.

>> Hey Josh. What's up?

>> Nothing much. How are you?

>> Good. Good. Good to see you.

>> Good to see you, too.

>> Yeah. Um,

how's it how's it been going today? What

you what have you been working on?

>> Uh, it's been pretty crazy actually. I

mean, some other department uh moved up

some of their deadlines and then I had

to work on that pretty much like all

day. Um.

>> Oh,

>> yeah. So, that's why um the deadline for

tonight is going to get done tomorrow

morning.

>> Oh, wait. Oh, okay.

Um,

yeah. I mean, O.

>> So, pause. Think it

>> that already shows

poor management. So, he's got more than

one boss. That is a really difficult

scenario to be in. Each boss thinks

their stuff matters more.

>> Mhm.

>> He just blew her off for someone else.

>> The thing about that deadline is that is

that is pretty make or break with the

client like like to it has to be tonight

with them. Um, so I was thinking

I think this would be one situation

where I'm going to ask you to stay late

tonight to get it done. And I know

there's a culture around here of

clocking out at 6:00 and I think that's

important, but I think there are moments

when it's also important to get this to

the client.

>> A thing she could have said here was,

um, I'm going to invite you to be

personally accountable here. you without

my involvement made the decision to

sacrifice this.

>> Um, you didn't check to know how

important it was.

>> Um, so tell me how you're going to solve

this.

>> Whoa.

I didn't expect you to say that. I feel

like there's a slight passive

aggressiveness to that.

>> Am I wrong?

>> Okay. Oh, that's fun. Let's explore it.

I don't know. I see

where you're coming from because she

just got hit with information that she

didn't know. But the idea of how would

you problem fix this?

>> Yeah.

>> That actually to me feels

wrong for some reason.

>> Does it? Oh, interesting.

>> I don't know why. Maybe it's the tone of

how you say it that really matters

there.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Right. Because there's obviously a very

you're in a stuck position. How are you

going to How are you going to fix this?

Is that not an us thing? Because now

you're putting this person on like an

island and you're like, "How are you

gonna this? How are you going to do this

instead of how are we going to do this?"

Maybe that's why I feel a little

>> Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, a much

better way to say it would have been um

thanks for letting me know how we got

here.

Let's see what we can do to solve the

problem.

>> Yes,

>> that's better. Okay, good.

>> Right. Because I think that's now in the

middle.

You just did the highest form of

learning,

>> which is application.

So, we're looking at how do you correct?

How do you have conflict in a successful

way?

>> Yeah,

>> we did.

You raised the issue in a way that

brought it to my attention. And I'm

like, you're right. I blew it. Wait,

wait hold.

That gave me chills for a second. Uh,

thank you. Uh sometimes I feel like we

always say like it's urgent urgent

because the deadline for today uh the

one that was changed earlier they told

me it was like urgent that it needed to

be done and that took a lot of time away

and I I thought this one was more of

like a flexible

>> Yeah. Right. To me

you help people grow by bringing natural

consequences. So, as a leader, you need

to allow people to face natural

consequences. She can offer to help him,

but he's the one that set up the

consequences.

>> Yeah.

>> It's not her job to fix it for him.

>> I think that's a that's a very fair

point. Yeah. That people need to be more

clear about what what is actually

urgent. We of course don't want to just

say everything is urgent to pressure

people.

This one

actually is I do need you to stay late

tonight to get that done. I want to make

a system in the future and I want to

address this going forward where that

doesn't have to happen, but this has to

be tonight.

>> In a tough moment like this, is it okay

not to be nice?

>> I'm going to reframe it. So, if she

caves and doesn't hold him accountable,

she's enabling him to pull this stuff

again.

>> Is that kind? when you tie it into his

long-term best interest, being nice and

saying, "Oh, I'll take the hit." isn't

nice at all.

>> But I also want you to feel empowered

that when you have something that you

need to do that's during a work day,

go do it. I don't care.

>> Okay?

>> Schedule appointments in the middle of

the day, whatever. But like it's a give

and take like that. It's

>> two sorts of things. It's like on the

conflict management, she's trying to

meet him and she's being collaborative.

on the system level. Boy, is she setting

up on a disaster. She's not asking him

to say when she's going to take he's

going to take time off. She doesn't know

if the other people are going to have

needs. She is really she's proposing

something to be caring and

collaborative. Nice. But man, is she

making a big problem

>> for herself and others and him. It has

to be tonight for this. So, I don't want

to have to I don't want you to burn out

and be constantly working late. But in

this situation, I don't think that's

going to happen. I think if you can work

late tonight on this, you're also more

than welcome. I don't know how many

hours it's going to take you tonight to

finish. Take that time later in the week

or if you have a slow day coming up or

if you have a day that you would like to

take, just take that time off.

Yeah,

I I I'll I'll get on it. Um,

>> thank you so much for that.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, feel free to expense dinner.

Do whatever.

>> Thank you.

>> Thanks, Josh.

>> She's not confident in her authority,

and that makes everything harder. It

It's like she's offering him extra time.

She's offering him dinner. Yep.

>> This is nuts. You know, granted there's

some major issues here, but if you don't

let people step up and be part of the

team, it's a little bit like um if you

pay a child to read,

you give away intrinsic worth.

>> Oh.

>> For exttrinsic. So, she's relying on

bribery

on extrinsic value. She's not letting

him step up and be part of the team.

>> Wow.

Look at you.

>> Boss of the year.

>> Boss of the year.

>> She's going to get that [ __ ] done.

>> Understanding that at least most of

these situations actually stem from some

larger systemic issue. Creating a space

with the people that you value in

whatever relationship. creating a space

where anytime there is some sort of

systemic issue, feeling comfortable to

be able to talk that out loud and almost

solve the problem right at its roots

instead of letting it spur into

something.

>> Yeah.

All right, contestant number three.

Now I am a little bit concerned.

Then again, I was born to do this.

Okay, you're Velco and currently you're

in a one-year relationship with your

girlfriend, Gracie. To summarize her in

a couple sentences, Gracie's kind,

ambitious, pretty, emotionally open, and

probably everything you've said you've

wanted in a partner. The first six

months were amazing, easy, fun, natural,

but over the past few weeks, things have

been feeling off. Two weeks ago, Gracie

told you she wished you texted more

during the day. You understood her

point, but it also made you feel like

you were doing something wrong just for

needing space. You're not someone who's

glued to your phone, and it started to

feel like she needs more reassurance

than you can give. A week ago, she

mentioned that she's always wanted a big

family, lots of kids. You froze for a

second and told her honestly, you

weren't sure where you stand on that

yet. You could tell she was

disappointed. And since then, that topic

has quietly haunted the back of your

mind. You're not ready for that kind of

future talk yet. Meeting her family.

Last weekend, her parents and sister

came to New York City, and you joined

them for a touristy weekend. They were

nice, but the experience drained you.

You caught yourself counting down the

hours until you could leave. It made you

realize how different your worlds might

be. Gracie checks in multiple times a

day, and while you know it comes from

care, it started to feel like

clinginess. She deserves someone who can

match that energy, and you no longer

believe this relationship is right.

Gracie's cooking dinner for you. Excited

for a normal, cozy night together, but

you already know what you need to do.

Goal: Confront Gracie about ending the

relationship. You care about her and

don't want to hurt her, but you've

already made up your mind. You want to

be honest, kind, and clear, even if it

breaks the moment.

>> How do you feel?

>> I've made up a I've made up my mind.

She's not the one for me.

>> Normally, I'm very excited and running

up these stairs.

>> This one, I'm going to take my time.

>> Yeah. Hi. Hi, babe.

How are you?

>> I'm good. How are you doing?

>> Good. Good to see you.

>> Good to see you, too.

>> You, too.

>> Oh, you made dinner.

>> Yes.

>> This looks good.

>> Thank you,

>> man. How long does this take?

>> It is my favorite. I love grilled

chicken breast.

>> Yes. Um, it didn't take that long.

>> This looks Yeah, looks like you put a

lot of work. Is this wine?

>> Yeah. Yes, it is. Cheers.

>> Yeah, let's do it. What kind of wine is

this?

>> Cabernet.

>> Cabernet. You love Cabernet.

>> Mhm. It's my favorite. You like it, too,

though?

>> I do like it.

>> Yeah,

>> I like it

>> with you.

>> Yeah.

>> I haven't seen you since you're 24

miles.

>> I'm I am tired.

>> Um, how'd it go?

>> It's good. A lot of thoughts, a lot of

>> Yeah,

>> I'm just It's been a long day and

>> Okay.

>> Um, you know,

>> it's okay. We'll just we don't have to

talk about that.

>> No, we can. I mean,

>> we're having dinner. We might as well.

>> Yeah.

>> You know, um but no, I'm a little sore

and uh

>> Yeah, those runs you're thinking about a

lot of stuff.

>> Yeah.

>> How was your day?

>> It was good. Really good.

>> I guess we can just sort of jump into

this, but I just wanted to bring

something up.

>> Totally.

>> Um

>> totally.

I guess.

I mean, I

just feel a little bit like you're um I

would love for you to just

text me back a little sooner.

It just seems like you um

Yeah, I just would love to just

communicate with you a little bit more.

Um I know you're kind of on your phone

all day. It's not, you know,

>> it's like a little bit of work and

stuff, but it's Yeah. Um I don't know

how to say this, but like, you know, I

value us a lot, you know? You know, I

care about you a lot.

>> Um and you're you're the best. Like we

it's been a year and we've had

>> amazing times, memories. Um I just

I think we do operate a little

differently. Like I think I always want

to give you what you need, especially in

that regard of, you know, responding.

And sometimes I'm just either in my own

head or maybe I'll miss the text or I'll

think I responded. And these these these

all sound like excuses like I should I

should be responding and you should you

should have that comfort of somebody

responding.

>> Um I don't want to put it on on me being

in my own head. I think recently

things have felt just like a little

little off. um maybe maybe between the

things we want out of this relationship.

>> That's a really good turn.

>> He initially so he's hearing her well.

He's being accountable. He's saying she

deserves that. He's dropping the subtle

hint of you someone who can give that to

you. Tiny tiny subtle hint. Now he's

shifting to honor his own truth and

that's really powerful.

>> Have you felt any like misalignment of

any sort?

Yeah. Um,

yeah. I mean,

for sure

>> I didn't think

it was going to go this way. Um, but

yeah, I mean, the other day when I

brought up kids, which is not something

that I see in the immediate future by

any means,

you definitely looked a little

frightened or a lot. And um, then with

my family, you you seemed distant and

like you really weren't having a good

time at all. And I that was super

disappointing. obviously

I wanted you to like them.

>> Mhm.

>> Um and enjoy that and it just didn't

seem like you did. So

those are some things that I definitely

have been thinking about as well. Um

>> but I didn't really think of it as

intensely as not being aligned. Yeah, I

I think we've been having they're minor

issues like where you know I'm missing

some texts and um you know I I hate

knowing that you're unhappy cuz I'm like

doing something wrong in a way. And uh

and then the kid thing that did rattle

me a little bit cuz I'm like I don't

want to say it's moving like too fast.

It was just a conversation you just

brought up that that's something you

want in your future. But then once that

like seed was planted in my head, I was

thinking, is is this somebody I could

see myself having kids with, you know,

like um is is it can we is it weird if

we move the food? I just for some reason

this conversation in the food

>> Yeah. Like away

>> just slightly. I don't know why some

something visually is just

>> I um knowing that that's in your head

that that's something you're

envisioning. I I don't necessarily think

that that's something in my head at

least at this time. Mhm.

>> And I don't want to like deny you that

future, especially if that's something

you want.

>> Is that really what brought you to I

mean, what is happening right now is I

think that this seems like

I didn't enter this being

this night obviously thinking this was

going to go south.

What are you thinking? I'm thinking that

um I just I don't want to necessarily

prolong something if I'm having these

feelings like I don't I just think those

types of future thoughts if they're not

aligned I think that is

I don't want to say a recipe for

disaster but it's just not I don't want

you envisioning these things and then in

my head I'm not envisioning these things

and we're just misaligned and

>> right

>> I'm just I don't want to deny you of

that future and I don't want to waste

time going into the future.

You know, I don't know if my mind will

change on that and I don't want to be

here 2 years from now and it's the same

conversation of I'm not ready and you

know things like that.

>> So,

I mean, is this it?

>> I think

>> is that what you're saying?

>> I just I don't know. I don't know. like

when I was with your family and it just

maybe it was the conversation about the

kids and then these conversations about

texts and it just felt like a lot has

been off and I just feel like I'm not

capable of giving you like that future

that you want. I think I family is

important to me too and I think if if

I'm not getting along necessarily with

your family like they're great people. I

just I just felt out of place weirdly

and it wasn't something they did. It was

just I felt like that wasn't for me. Um.

>> Right.

>> Yeah.

>> I I think I'm not being um direct

enough. Like I think

I do think what you want out of this

relationship and and what I'm looking

for, what I want and what I envision at

least at this time. I just I don't think

they're the same thing. And

yeah, I do think that we that that we

should no longer continue to continue

this relationship.

>> Yeah.

I guess it just feels like I don't

really know you right now.

But

>> I think when you first brought up the

kids, I was just like I kind of shut off

and I definitely should have handled

that better. I think in the moment we

should have had those conversations

more. Um, but I do think having met your

family and just

just everything that's transpired over

the past few weeks and months, I just

I've a part of my heart has been growing

distant. Um, and I I do think I've come

to the conclusion that uh we got to go

our separate ways.

>> Okay.

But I I mean I guess

you should go.

>> Okay.

>> Yeah.

I'm almost glad that we just kind of

watched that whole thing. I think a lot

of the value in this was seen actually

just in the pacing of their conversation

more than what each one of them have

said themselves.

>> How they said it,

>> how long it took for them to say what

they needed to say.

>> Yeah. He's really giving her time to

feel and process,

>> you know, it's like saying what he feels

and she's getting the picture and she's

naming it. So, just the they're neither

one shying away. They're both being

caring and compassionate.

>> Mhm.

>> Um, this is really hard.

>> It's hard. That almost to me feels like

one of the biggest lessons I've taken

away from watching these. It's like I

think when we all think about

confrontation, we think of it as this

fast-paced

communication match.

>> Yeah.

>> And I think we can all use a little bit

of stillness in moments like that for to

allow each other to feel.

>> Yeah.

>> Okay.

Well, Dr. Wise, thank you so much.

There's just endless things I could say.

Thank you for roasting my friends. I'll

start with that. They're going to be

extremely grateful. Um,

>> thank you so much. It's really fun. I so

appreciate the opportunity to play with

you because this is really fun.

>> The things you came up with are so good

and I I love they touch.

>> Oh, there's stuff in this mind.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't tell. Yeah.