The Big Andy Murray Interview

You know, Novak, like myself, is, you know, a challen challenging character in terms of the way he goes about his his tennis is extremely demanding.

>> Do you do good pep talk?

>> You'd have to ask Novak. I don't know.

>> David's our pep talk guy.

>> Oh, really?

>> Yeah.

>> I'm just a general hype guy. I don't

know. What was your approach?

>> I won the Olympics in London. I flew the next day to Canada to play Masters Series there. Terrible decision. I was

Series there. Terrible decision. I was

sitting on the actual the ATB player council when this got voted for to change the master series to to longer events and I was completely against that change within probably a week to 10 days

of retiring my perspective completely changed on my own career like at times you know when I was in the middle of it you know like number three in the world or four in the world and it's rubbish

>> they're going big money on eBay >> I I I heard about that yeah I heard they were going for big money if you kept yours or you >> I gave it to my mom.

>> Did you? And she put it on eBay.

>> Well, hello and welcome to the tennis podcast. A very special tennis podcast

podcast. A very special tennis podcast today. What do tennis podcasters do in

today. What do tennis podcasters do in the offseason, I hear you wonder? Well,

they come to the Raampton Club and they interview one of the sports greats. I am

Katherine Whitaker. I am of course joined by Matt Roberts and David Law.

And we are thrilled today to be joined by Sir Andy Murray. Andy, it's great to have you.

>> Thanks for having me.

>> Thanks for squeezing us into your golf schedule.

>> It's all right.

>> Um, do you miss seeing tennis media on a weekly basis?

>> Um, >> it's okay to say no.

>> No. Well, interestingly, I actually since I finished like I like bumping into the media and chatting to them.

It's changed that, you know, when I was playing it was something that I think tennis um because we do so many

interviews and it feels to me like so many of the same interviews that it it just over time it be it can at times become a little bit tedious. Whereas now

I do less interviews. I don't see the media as much and I'm then like genuinely interested to one speak to the media but also like it's fun. Like I

don't I don't mind it. It's just what I think when you play like 80 matches a year for 10 years and you get interviewed before every match and after every single match

>> and it's always similar sort of questions, it's not not so interesting.

We're happy to be a novelty for you today. Um, retirement looks like it's

today. Um, retirement looks like it's suiting you well 18 months in. How's

life?

>> It's good. Yeah. Um, I mean, I was, you know, I was genuinely like unsure of what it was going to be like.

I didn't know whether I would enjoy it, whether I would miss tennis and, you know, like how how it would fill my days and and stuff. So before it came, I

was a bit nervous about it. Um I know that it was the right decision to stop when I did. I don't regret when I retired from from tennis. But yeah, it's

been brilliant. Um you know, I've loved

been brilliant. Um you know, I've loved being a dad. Um being at home with with the kids is is brilliant. I get to do everything with them and that's you know, I'm in a very fortunate position

to be able to do that to you like yesterday. Uh it's 10:00 on a Monday

yesterday. Uh it's 10:00 on a Monday morning and I got to go and watch my daughter's hockey competition for 3 hours and you know it's in the pissing rain but it was you know it was

brilliant. I loved getting to do that

brilliant. I loved getting to do that sort of stuff and you know I missed a lot of those things when I was playing tennis and um yeah I've been really really enjoying that.

>> Has it taken you any time to get used to it? Because I'm thinking that a year

it? Because I'm thinking that a year ago, it's it's just about the anniversary of when we all heard mouth gape that you were going to start working with Novak.

>> Yeah.

>> And I just wonder if we'd have asked you the question a year ago or just before that announcement, how's retirement treating you? Whether you answer might

treating you? Whether you answer might have felt a bit different.

>> No, I I was I was loving it at the time when I spoke to him. I' I'd just finished playing um I'd had a round of golf. Um I was in the car on the way

golf. Um I was in the car on the way home when I spoke to him about the possibility of coaching and you know it was totally unexpected um at

the time and it was not something that I was sort of I wasn't missing the sport in a way where I was like oh you know I'm desperate to start coaching and get on the road again.

Um so yeah no I I was still really enjoying myself and was really happy being away from from the sport. I hadn't

been watching much tennis. I hadn't hit a tennis ball since I finished. Um, so

yeah, I was, you know, I was in a good place, but it was also an opportunity where one I I thought felt like I would always want to coach at some stage, something that I would probably enjoy

doing.

Um, and one that if I didn't take it, I might look back on it and be like, you know, that would have been really interesting. I could have learned a lot

interesting. I could have learned a lot or, you know, potentially regretted it.

So I was very lucky that my wife agreed to, you know, let me go and and and do it for a period. And um yeah, >> how how do you look back on it now?

>> The the coaching.

>> Yeah.

>> And the kind of baptism baptism of fire element like that's not easing yourself into being a potentially being a coach, is it? That's like

is it? That's like >> going in at the deep end.

>> Yeah, it Well, yeah, it is. I mean,

you're obviously working with he's not just one of the best tennis players, one of the best athletes of all time. Um,

you know, so my expectation was that it was going to be extremely challenging.

Um, you know, Novak like myself is, you know, a challen challenging character in terms of the way he goes about his his tennis is extremely demanding and, you

know, I fully expected that. Um,

and yeah, look, I I look back on it and I'm like, I'm glad that I did it. Um,

you know, it's an amazing experience that I've had. You know, I've learned a bit. Um, obviously didn't last that

bit. Um, obviously didn't last that long. Um, but yeah, like I put like I

long. Um, but yeah, like I put like I put everything into it that I had. I

tried my hardest um to to help him. Um,

you know, certainly initially it you know, it was going going well. It was

unfortunate what happened in in Australia with the with the injury and you know I watched him play in that tournament like ridiculous tennis in my opinion. I saw him play some amazing

opinion. I saw him play some amazing tennis there and you know speaking to his you know his team about that was like just so so good like so impressive what he's doing and then after the

injury it was certainly a difficult few months for him but also I think for for for the team and and all of us. So, um,

yeah, I was was disappointed. Probably

didn't get the results I would have, you know, would have liked for for him, but I learned a lot. I learned a lot about what coaching is. And like you said, because it was you throwing yourself in at the deep end. It's like you find out

a lot about yourself and some of your strengths, some of your weaknesses as as a coach and things that maybe you need to, you know, to work on yourself. Um,

but yeah, I was like fully invested. I

was like I committed to a skiing holiday before I took the job and I explained that to him. But I was sitting there like at 11:00 at night watching videos of his matches over in Australia like

editing videos to send to him and like try I tried my hardest to you know to help and um yeah made some good relationships along the way as well with his with his team. I stay in touch with

quite a few of the the team members um as well which was which was good. So

yeah, I'm glad I did it, but disappointed the results weren't as I would have liked.

>> What was it like literally like being on the court at the Australian Open when they had that innovation this year of coaches sitting really courtside? What

was that experience like? Was it sort of even more feeling like eyes are on you in a way?

to be honest that I wasn't bothered by by that like the cameras and and stuff being there. It's just it's not a good

being there. It's just it's not a good place to watch tennis from, you know, like I don't understand why like coaches should be sitting in my

opinion and the team should be sitting in the best seats in the house. I I feel um and because you you want to be able to watch the match properly and sometimes like a

lot of the tournaments they get put in positions where they can't see properly.

the umpire's chairs in the way and I feel like the team should be sitting like directly behind the court so they get a proper view of the match and see what's going on. So from a communication

perspective it was good because you were right there and you're obviously allowed to chat to the players. So I really liked that um about it but just in terms of like watching a tennis match from

there it's actually it's not that easy to see from that low down. So,

um, yes, good being close to the court, but the position of the seats were not to my liking.

>> What was it like to like witness the stress of somebody in the moment of a tennis match in the way that you have been on a million different occasions?

What was it like to be on the receiving end of that and kind of witness it from the outside and absorb it?

Yeah. What was that experience like? So

I um I actually didn't find the matches that stressful. The actual once the

that stressful. The actual once the matches started the buildup to the matches I found really quite stressful like because yes when you're on the when

you're sitting there on the side you can obviously help and give comment on you know what you're seeing or what the player maybe needs to do differently during the match. But actually the

buildup is where you know the coach has to there's lots of things that you need to do and making sure that everything is done correctly. So making sure that the

done correctly. So making sure that the rackets are right that the practice court is booked and that the practice partner is

appropriate and that you know the videos around the match are done like >> were you the one going in and booking the practice courts and were you that hands-on doing all of that stuff?

>> Yeah, I did. Yeah. So I did all of that stuff which I viewed that as being you know my job. It wasn't like Novak said please be the one getting my rackets and stuff like I wanted to do those things

because like you're then in control of it. So at

the end like if you mess up the rackets like that's you know that's on you um so you know I'd have my list of things that you know I had to do um before the matches and

you know make sure they're they're done right and you know then you have to obviously go over the strategy and the um you know like the videos that you put together. Novak had an analyst as well

together. Novak had an analyst as well who he was working with that helped with with a lot of that stuff as well and he was you know he was brilliant. he's

still working with him now. Um,

uh, guy called Boris who helps him on the coaching side a bit as well. So, he

he was also helping with that, but we spent a lot of time working on those things before the match. Um, because,

you know, that's something Novak wanted, you know, the making sure the videos and stuff were done well. So we spent a lot of time on that you know and there are all of the things that go into and then and then obviously sometimes before

matches like you know the player needs like a bit of encouragement or like a bit of motivation or something as well and trying to make sure you find the right words or the right moments to do those things I think are you know

important.

>> Do you do good pep talk?

>> You'd have to ask Novak. I don't know. I

don't know whether I did. Um

>> David's our pep talk guy.

>> Oh really?

>> Yeah. Did you have one this morning?

>> Yeah, I've given, you know, we're here, aren't we? We're here.

aren't we? We're here.

>> Yeah.

>> I'm just a general hype guy. I don't

know. What was your approach?

>> No, I think it's important for a coach to bring like a good energy. I think you know so that you know you don't want like on a important day that your team comes out and is like super like flat

but also like like nervous energy is not also what player in my opinion what a player needs before they walk on to play a you know semi-final final of a grand

slam. You need to

slam. You need to you know bring an energy like I don't know like a bit of confidence as well um you know and so that the player feels

like you believe in them. Um, I think so, you know, whether or not I did that well or not, I I don't know. I would

have to, you know, Novak would have to have to answer that. But, um, but I'm aware from a psychological perspective how important those things are. So, it's

something that I would like if I ever coached again, like I would work on and try and do a better job of it.

>> You'd obviously played Novak so many times and sort of observed his career kind of from the outside. when you got like inside the camp, was there anything

about the way he operated that surprised you at all or sort of that you thought, "Wow, I didn't know that you did it like that."

that." >> No, I wouldn't I wouldn't say so. Um

because I've, you know, like you say, I've played against him a lot. I've

also, you know, I practiced with him quite a lot, particularly in our younger years. um

years. um been in the gym with him lots at tournaments and things. Um one of the things that I really liked about his training and his physical trainer at the

time, Gigi, who was working with him in the offseason that I really liked, um was that he always had him in different training environments. Um, so one day

training environments. Um, so one day he'd be in the swimming pool. The next

day he would be running on the the beach. Then he would be, you know, going

beach. Then he would be, you know, going out on on the bike. Um, next day he'd be playing basketball. Uh, that was

playing basketball. Uh, that was something that's very different to how I trained. A lot of mine was like, you

trained. A lot of mine was like, you know, get on the Versus Climber or get on a W bike and you're sort of staring at the walls and it's, you know, it's not it's not that stimulating an environment. I I liked the hard work and

environment. I I liked the hard work and I enjoyed doing that. But that was something that probably from seeing Novak um you know I you know really I

really liked that about his training which um you know I I certainly didn't do do myself. I thought that was really good. And actually um it's quite I think

good. And actually um it's quite I think it's funny story anyway, but on the first day that I started working with him, I turned up um to the the training

camp and um we did the the practice session um which his team were all kind of laughing at me because whilst Novat was warming up, I

was out on the court practicing my feeding, like warming up my feeding, which they were like, "I've never seen anyone do that before." And I was like, well, as a player, I used to hate it when the coach fed poorly. And you know, I had like a basket balls working on my

feeding. So, they all found that quite

feeding. So, they all found that quite amusing. I was doing that. But then

amusing. I was doing that. But then

after the tennis session, his physical trainer was like, "Oh, Novak's going for like a like a long sort of slow run in the park later. Like, would you mind joining him?" And I was like, "Oh my

joining him?" And I was like, "Oh my god." Like, I I I didn't run since I uh

god." Like, I I I didn't run since I uh since I was about 25. Like on the court, I did, but I never ran as part of my training.

And I was like, it's my first day on the job. Like, I can't say no, I'm not doing

job. Like, I can't say no, I'm not doing this. Um, I was like, yeah, yeah, no,

this. Um, I was like, yeah, yeah, no, no, no worries. I I'll do that. Bearing

in mind, I also hadn't been staying in great shape since I finished. I mean,

I've been training a bit, but not loads.

I was I told him that I've not trained much. And he was like, "It's fine. It's

much. And he was like, "It's fine. It's

going to be a gentle run." So, anyway, I went um and it was like I think it was about 50 minutes he was running for. and

it was in a park and you're kind of up quite a few hills in there very slow pace but after about four or

five minutes my left uh calf cramped and I was like oh no but I can't say anything like this is embarrassing you

know like after four or five minutes um and anyway I finished I completed the 50 minutes I was in so much pain and anyway when I finished I said to his team I was

like guys, I'm you need to help me out here. Like I've been running for 45

here. Like I've been running for 45 minutes. My left calf cramped um whilst

minutes. My left calf cramped um whilst I was there and I was just like I couldn't I felt like I couldn't stop, you know, like I didn't want to show to him like, oh my god, you know, this is

someone I've been competing against for such a long time and after 5 minutes, you know, he's struggling training with me. So I did tough it out, but it's

me. So I did tough it out, but it's pretty embarrassing embarrassing moment for me. Maybe he was testing you

for me. Maybe he was testing you >> by inviting you.

>> That run should not have been a test. It

was so slow. We would have all been able to complete it. I don't know what happened if it was just because I had run for a long time or if I was dehydrated or nerves or whatever, but

yeah, it was so slow and it was embarrassing.

>> You mentioned that some of the incredible tennis he played at that tournament, the Australian Open. And I

mean our minds all go back to the match he played against Alcarez who I know he's somebody you you have talked about loving watching as a player and and and

he's he's a great watch. What was it like trying to I guess prepare for him given everything he brings to the table?

>> Um so like honestly um that preparation was done well ahead of time. Um, and

that was something that, you know, I worked on in the off season with um more more with his uh his analyst. Um,

but you know, we worked on the on the court in terms of like patterns of play that felt like he would work well for him against guys like Alcarz and guys like

S, who they're the players that most likely he was going to have to beat if he wanted to win another another major.

That was that was my opinion. So a lot of that work in terms of the preparation of the like the analysis of that match had been done throughout the off season

and tennis in my opinion you have to do that and I I don't think enough uh enough people do because you know it's it's one of the things

that's really hard about tennis is you never know exactly who you're going to play. you know, you finish a match on

play. you know, you finish a match on Wednesday, you've got, you know, a day to get ready for the next one. There's

not lots of time to, and in that time, you obviously got to sleep, you've got to do your training and, you know, prepare. There's not lots of time to get

prepare. There's not lots of time to get ready for the opponents.

So tried to do as much of that work in the offseason as possible so that we weren't like scrambling around before you know the match with Alcarz to you know how are we going to play against

this guy and you know can we get some videos put together to show Novak and you know that sort of stuff. So a lot of that was kind of done um ahead of time

to be honest. you proud of that like coaching Novak to beat Carlos?

>> Um, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I that that wasn't

yeah. Yeah. I mean, I that that wasn't it wasn't me that won that match. Novak

won that match and he could win that match whether I'm sitting there or not.

But I did the best I can to help him in in that match. I feel like the this is the thing that's hard with

tennis is that I think the strategy to play against him is it because it's a bit complicated. But

because we'd spent a lot of time on it, I felt like it was quite clear as to how he needed to play. But there's a difference between

seeing a strategy and actually going out on the court and executing it as well as he did. And my opinion is that there's

he did. And my opinion is that there's very few people in the world that can do that. So you could give a guy ranked 50

that. So you could give a guy ranked 50 in the world the best strategy you want to play against Alcarz, but he's still probably going to win that match.

Whereas Novak is that good that he is able to execute a strategy perfectly because he is so good. Um, so

yeah, I felt like the strategy for the match was a good one, but he played a ridiculous tennis match as well. Um, and

that's why he he won the match.

>> How does the feeling of coaching somebody to a big victory like that emotionally, how does that compare to actually being the one to

do the stuff on the court?

>> Um, it's it's it's different. I mean I I was I was really really happy for him and super happy for

you know for his team. Um

but yeah it it I definitely like after the match and stuff it was like hard to sleep still like I was still like buzzing from from the the match and everything and it

was so good to watch that like I you know I loved it. I loved being part of that match and being you know courtside and stuff. It was it was awesome. But I

and stuff. It was it was awesome. But I

would say winning as as a player, being the one on the court is still, you know, would be a a greater a greater feeling, but it was still really really special.

>> And kind of picking up on that, I remember in the final few years of your playing days, you would talk about how you'd spoken to exs and they would say like kind of nothing nothing does

replace the feeling of playing, competing, winning. How have how have

competing, winning. How have how have you found that in retirement? Like

not having that in your life and finding other sources of joy, I suppose. And was

that at all part of the motivation to get into coaching, like chasing that feeling at all?

>> Um, no. No, I don't I don't think so. Um, I

no. No, I don't I don't think so. Um, I

I I don't feel like I've I've had to replace it. Like I don't I don't miss

replace it. Like I don't I don't miss it. I think like golf helps with the

it. I think like golf helps with the sort of like having a routine of like something that I'm trying to practice and get better at. So I really like that part of

better at. So I really like that part of tennis and I love sort of waking up in the morning and you know going to the gym to try and get stronger or more flexible or fitter and

getting on the court and practicing things like I enjoyed that right up until the end. Like I was always trying to find ways to get better and I really enjoyed that. So, um, you know, the

enjoyed that. So, um, you know, the compet competition is hard though as well. Like it's not

well. Like it's not I wouldn't say that like I don't miss like standing on the baseline to serve like on the first point of a match at

Wimbledon. Like I'm not winning

Wimbledon. Like I'm not winning Wimbledon like yes like I would love to feel that one more time but getting to that point is really difficult. was

really hard and I did that for, you know, a long time and I don't I really don't miss that. Um, you know, I dedicated a lot of my life to it. I'm

glad that I did it. I'm proud of what I achieved, but I don't I don't know. I

don't I'm not I don't feel like I'm trying to fill that void. Um, and yeah, and if I felt like coaching was going to

to do that, um, I I don't think that it did. I enjoyed it in a in a different

did. I enjoyed it in a in a different way to how I enjoyed, you know, competing and playing tennis.

>> Just picking up on that, I remember you saying that a few times, sort of speaking to you towards the end of your career, citing the ex pros you had spoken to that had said nothing will ever replace it. You know, hang on to

this as long as you can. How that

obviously hearing that obviously really stuck with you at the time. How do you look back on that advice and that mindset now? Like you said at the start

mindset now? Like you said at the start that you'd been quite fearful of retirement or certainly apprehensive.

Like do you think maybe you were too too afraid of it?

>> Um well possibly. Yeah. I I mean I I don't know.

possibly. Yeah. I I mean I I don't know.

Possibly. But I also think that but the reason I feel like I do now is because I gave everything that I had to the sport. I don't look back with any

the sport. I don't look back with any regret. I couldn't

regret. I couldn't Well, there's things I would do differently if I could have another go at it. But I feel like I gave everything

at it. But I feel like I gave everything like physically to the sport. Like, you

know, this certainly, like I said, things I would have done differently, but like mentally like I was fully invested in my tennis. I gave my best effort to or what I thought was my my

best. So, I don't like Yeah, I think I

best. So, I don't like Yeah, I think I finished it at the right time. I had no I had nothing more to give. And I'm sure there's some athletes that finish their careers and look back and are like, "Oh my god, like I totally blew that. I

should have done this differently. I

should have worked harder. I should have done and I I I I don't have that feeling." So yes, it's possible that I

feeling." So yes, it's possible that I was maybe too fearful of retirement, but also if I'd stopped four years before and when I had the hip problem, maybe I would have been like I

would have liked to have seen like what I could have done with, you know, with a metal hip and, you know, maybe would have had some regrets and wanted to go back and, you know, compete again. But I

don't I have none of those feelings.

>> What What are the things you would have done differently?

Um I would have uh probably would have trained um slightly differently. I would

have taken more breaks. Um

certainly would have certainly would have done that. I would have uh enjoyed the successes more. Um

so I would have for sure taken like I don't know like an example I use quite a lot would be um so when I I won the Olympics in London

um I flew the next day to Canada to play Masters Series there. Terrible decision.

Um you know I played my first match my body was in bits. It was on a different surface.

Got nothing out of doing that. And

actually why I didn't stay and celebrate what you know that was the best week that I had on the tennis court and the way that I celebrated that was getting on a flight the following day to go to

Canada to you know to play over there and like stuff like that. I did the same thing after Rio Rio I got on a flight

that night flew with Nadal to Cincinnati um and went and played there. stuff like

that I would definitely have done differently and spent. Sorry.

>> Sorry. Was that because the number number one with specifically with the Rio example you were chasing the the number number one at that time, right?

>> Yeah. There's there's Yeah. So part of it was that but I was still miles away from being number one at that stage.

Like I still had to win what was like almost every like almost every match from that point through to the end of the year. And I was sitting in my hotel

the year. And I was sitting in my hotel room every single day with my team during that Cincinnati tournament. I was

like don't want to play. So I'm so tired. Like I don't I just don't want to

tired. Like I don't I just don't want to play. And that's where like there was

play. And that's where like there was always like a conflict with me that I was kind of I was like I tell my team like I don't want to play and then it was like getting closer and closer to

the start time of the match and I was like I've got to play like you know but I'd be telling them like the whole day like I'm not playing like I'm going to pull out cuz I I really wasn't that bothered about the

tournament like I just won the Olympics.

I was like so happy. Um

I think I won Wimbledon that year as well. like I was in a good place. I

well. like I was in a good place. I

didn't need to play in Cincinnati, but it was like that want wanting to compete that, you know, I, you know, I was always drawn to that

and sometimes find it hard to say no to that opportunity. Um, and yeah, I wish

that opportunity. Um, and yeah, I wish like that week, for example, like I shouldn't have played in Cincinnati. Um,

but I did and got to the final and you know, my team would say like every day they were like I was pulling out. I was

like, I'm not playing. I'd wake up every morning. I was like, I'm not playing

morning. I was like, I'm not playing today. Don't want to play. So,

today. Don't want to play. So,

>> you always had a good hype man at that time.

>> No, they didn't want me to play either, you know, and and maybe, you know, that's something that, you know, at at times as well, like there certainly in my career I would have done differently,

but also like if I was coaching a player in that situation now, I would 100% I would stop them from playing. I would

pull them out of the, you know, pull them out of the event and stop them competing and be like, "Look, enjoy yourself." Like, you know, we got the US

yourself." Like, you know, we got the US Open in a couple of weeks. Don't go and party for 10 days, but like let's take a moment to like appreciate like, you know, what it is that you've achieved

and worked for and, you know, let's reset and compete um in a couple of weeks.

>> Do you think that decision to play Cincinnati had any effect on the US Open to come? kind of when I think of your

to come? kind of when I think of your career I you know and maybe certain matches or tournaments that got away obviously that 2016 US Open I know

Nishakori is a great player you can lose to Nishakori but kind of you were in such good form that year and kind of won so many of the other big events

Wimbledon Olympics tour finals do you think just like was there some burnout or fatigue that you were feeling at that tournament >> well I think one of the things that was

starting to happen at that stage and it had started kind of end of 2015 was that so this is now that

US Open so it was I don't know like what 9 months from when my hip was like completely done and by that stage my hip was pretty bad and I struggled a lot

that that year um in in long matches in five set matches is uh and by the end of those matches I was really struggling

particularly with my serve. Um it became an issue and if you if you look at my results from like being two sets to one up in slams throughout my career up till

that point it was you know rarely lost from that position.

Um and then in those next sort of few months it happened multiple times and I could lose those matches anyway. It's

possible, but I know in myself that physically I, you know, I couldn't serve properly and my hip was hurting badly in those longer matches. And yeah, it's possible that if I played less tennis

and um Cincinnati that my hip would have been feeling slightly better at the US Open but I I I don't think so. My hip was already

on its way to being finished. And yeah,

I lost multiple m like the match against Nishakori, I lost from two sets to one up. Del Portro two sets to one up at

up. Del Portro two sets to one up at Davis Cup. Worinka two sets to one up at

Davis Cup. Worinka two sets to one up at French Open and that was when my hit, you know, eventually was was done. But

um yeah, I think it was more more likely because of that >> with the the relentlessness of it all, the fact that you're not able really

structurally the way the tennis season is set up to celebrate these things.

Unless you make this decision, I'm not going to play or a coach says don't play. Is is that something that you see

play. Is is that something that you see as a problem for the tour in a way in the way it's structured? I mean, we we were talking to Jack Draper a couple of weeks ago who was concerned about the

the the lengthened Master Series 10,00 events for instance, the fact that they're all a couple of weeks long now and the feeling that you can't you can't take breaks. You you you feel like

take breaks. You you you feel like you've got to be out there and and you burn out. Do you think that that is

burn out. Do you think that that is actually something that maybe structurally could should change?

>> Um, yeah. So, so the thing is and I I think that again it's a regret of mine obviously as a player you a lot of players just like follow what

the schedule says you have to do and like Novak's a good example of that this year where he hasn't done that and at times like Federra didn't didn't do that and you are allowed to miss tournaments

um obviously there is certain penalties in place um for that So yeah, there's a bit of a, you know, a bit of a balance to it. And that's where

since these longer Master Series came in, I was sitting on the actual the ATB Player Council when this got voted for to change the Master Series to to longer

events. And um I was completely against

events. And um I was completely against um that change uh because one, I liked the Master Series how they were. I

thought they were, you know, they were great events. Um,

great events. Um, and my feeling was just that it's not, yes, you would, the feeling from the ATP

at the time was that there would be uh, less injuries because you would have more time to recover between matches.

My feeling was was that Yeah, but if you put like two week tournaments on, there's like less time for players to actually recover as well. And you know, and I think part of the issue now is

where I don't um I don't think there's anything that suggests that players are getting injured more than before. Um I

think there's there's always been injuries and I I really I don't think there's evidence to to to back that up.

Um but I do think players are more tired. Um and I think mentally are more

tired. Um and I think mentally are more fatigued than they were before because they're spending more days away and more days on the road. And when you're more

fatigued, um, you're more sensitive to pain and discomfort. Um, and I think that that my feeling is that that is what, uh, players are are feeling now

is, you know, you're just being away and being on the road for longer than you used to be rather than, you know, that the matches are like physically. So players are obviously

physically. So players are obviously hitting the ball harder and stuff, but you know the matches I don't think they're like so much more demanding than than than they were, you know, 10 15

years ago, but it's the amount of time that players are away on the road that's actually an issue.

>> We all listen to your um the podcast you did with Romesh, which is great. Um, but one of the there was obviously lots of fun stuff in it,

but one of the like profound lines that really really got me was you saying that you you're proud of your career now, but you weren't when you were in it.

Like is that I felt quite sad hearing that that sort of in the moment you couldn't feel couldn't feel proud. like

how I don't know is that is do you wish you could have been proud at the time or do you think that feeling of always wanting more was what enabled you to achieve what you did?

>> Yeah. So, so

like part part of probably that is um you know maybe helped me become more successful um because I was always like striving for more but at the same time

I spent my whole career you know sort of getting compared to your results are getting compared to Roger Federer or Novak Jovovich and Nadal. So, and these

are the people I was competing against and trying to get become as good as or better than.

So, when you're looking at them and you're seeing that they've won 10 grand slams, 15 grand slams, 20 grand slams, the achievements when you're just in the

middle of that, you know, seem like insignificant almost. um

insignificant almost. um which as literally within probably a week to 10 days of retiring my perspective completely changed on my own

career like at times you know when I was in the middle of it you know like number three in the world or four in the world and it's rubbish or you get you know you get to

the final of the Australian Open for the fifth time and it's terrible result and you know the media will also help you feel that way at times as well. Um you

know like and sport is difficult in that sense is that you have an a great achievement and you're made to feel like it is a failure um as well. And you know

the athletes obviously because we're competitive and want to win we we feel that too but when you know going to press conference afterwards and it's like you know the the mood is so like

disappointing and stuff you know you will feel it um you know feel it more.

So yeah, when you're in the thick of it and it's your job and everything, like you know, disappointed when I didn't win um majors, you put so much into it that it,

you know, you feel a bit like you failed. But when I finished my career

failed. But when I finished my career now, like I went and watched my daughter running a cross country race and she finished like seventh and I was like, "Oh my god, like that's unbelievable."

Like it's so good. So like as a parent like I'm like that is amazing. like

finishing seventh out of 100 kids in like the local school area.

But when I was playing tennis, like we finished second in one of the biggest competitions and you're like, this is just a disaster. It's just

not an ideal way to look at things. It's

hard to get much uh happiness and pleasure out of the sport when that is, you know, the mindset. I think a lot of athletes suffer from it.

One, one of the things that struck us last night when we were looking at your head-to-heads against Novak and Roger and Rafa, you know, your your three big contemporaries and rivals, is just how

many times you did beat them, you know, you you beat them a lot. I mean, is that something that in hindsight, given what we know of them now, how how incredible

their careers have been, that that must give you some some pleasure in hindsight.

>> Yeah. like when I watch myself play now.

Um, which is rare like you know the odd thing pops up on you know my Instagram feed or whatever. Um, and yeah like you know I like watching myself play now like when I was playing it was like so

judgmental of like everything. It's like

oh you know the ball toss is wrong. Oh

god that foreign is so bad or whatever.

Whereas now like I watch it and I'm like wow like yeah like it was good like I could play pretty well. Um but certainly didn't always feel like that when I was,

you know, in in the middle um in the middle of my career.

>> I think you posted the highlights of your Australian Open semi-final against Federra in 2013 the other day and you were like, you know, we were pretty

good. And that match always sticks in my

good. And that match always sticks in my mind. And I think um Simon Briggs of the

mind. And I think um Simon Briggs of the Telegraph called it kind of a five set thrashing. Like you were so good in that

thrashing. Like you were so good in that match and Federer was fighting hard and extended it to five. Like can you just talk a little bit about your rivalry

with Roger specifically? Um something

that I realized is you won six of your first eight meetings against against Federra like right in Federra's prime.

kind of what was it about that matchup that you sort of took to early on there that you were having so much success against him, do you think?

>> Yeah, so I I watched him like loads when I was growing up. Um, and I used to I took notes from watching matches on

watch matches of him on Sky. Like I had an injury when I was uh 15 I think it was. I didn't play for like six months and I you know I I I

really enjoyed watching him like I loved watching him play but I also like I felt like I knew again this is where it's like from a strategical point of view like I felt

like I knew how to play against him but certainly was never always going to execute it well because of how good he is but I had a clear idea of how it was that I wanted to play against him and

you know that certainly helped me early on um you know when I you know when I competed against him and the matchup was not like a great matchup

for me. Like I still lost more than I

for me. Like I still lost more than I won against him but um yeah like it was it was a you know it was a good it was a good match. had chances to to win when I

good match. had chances to to win when I played against him. Obviously, you know, in the grand slams I didn't certainly didn't do as well. And I think, you know, part of that was yes, his game,

but also like the psychological impact of him having won multiple majors, me never having won one and that, you know, the nerves that I would feel

going into those matches and the the pressure that I would feel. Obviously,

he would have felt that too. he would

have felt the pressure and um I'm not saying that I would but I think if I played him the first time when we in slams when neither of us had won one I probably would have felt a bit different

going on the court whereas you know he had this aura about him and you know was always sort of described as you know he's the best tennis player of all time that to overcome him is you know is

challenging in those like the biggest the biggest matches but the matchup itself like I felt like I matched up quite well.

>> Is there anything strategically or tactically you could just let us in on on what what for you it meant to play Roger and and beat him?

>> Um I get on very well with with with Roger now. Um so yeah it meant well obviously

now. Um so yeah it meant well obviously yeah it meant a lot for me to win against him because he was someone I watched as a kid. Like I loved I loved his game. Um,

his game. Um, you know, but I, yeah, I felt like, um, you know, his his backhand was a side that people would say like, oh, his

backhand was like weak, but I mean, in relation to to what? Like his backhand would still have been one of the best backhands in the world, but in relation to like his forehand, like it was clear

that that was a side that you could maybe attack. And my backhand crosscourt

maybe attack. And my backhand crosscourt was one of my best shots. And I also I also used to like playing a sort of like high forehand down the line that was

sort of slow. Um

that for him I think um I'd be interested actually know and I've never asked him about it but I didn't always hit it like super deep. It was like kind of like high but short in the box and

for a onehander it's difficult. You need

to make a decision like early like what do I do with this bowl? Do I step into the court and try and take it early or, you know, they have to either like retreat and go back behind the baseline

or, you know, am I going to slice this ball? And that I felt like that shot

ball? And that I felt like that shot gave him um some some trouble particularly early on when we played.

Obviously, he figured that out um the more I played against him. But yeah,

there was a few things in the matchup that I felt like I could and and I think just cuz I watched like hours of him play like initially like reading his game.

A lot of that had kind of been done before I went on the court with him the first few times.

>> What was it like being part of Rafa's retirement ceremony at Roland Garas last year?

>> Yeah, I um yeah, I was I was amazing.

Um, and I think, you know, he obviously like deserved that and he seemed to be really touched by the whole thing. I

thought the is is it the footprint that's on the court? What did they put? Um,

court? What did they put? Um,

>> yeah, like I thought that was really that was really cool. Um, and yeah, he seemed to to love it, which I think is what the most important thing is. Like

obviously it's nice if it makes everyone that's watching it feel you know emotional and you know they enjoy it but Rafa seemed to really

really love it. So it was um yeah it was great. I enjoyed go and you know it was

great. I enjoyed go and you know it was actually like beforehand was also nice as well cuz I don't think Raf Rafa didn't know that we were all going to go. Um, and we were sitting in like a

go. Um, and we were sitting in like a like a room just with Roger for the most part and his his agent just chatting about tennis and or matches and what the

game's like now and things like that which um yeah, which was which was fun to >> Did did things like that or maybe specifically that event that help you

feel like proud to have been you were talking about sort of feeling of inadequacy because your career achievements were compared to those other three. But I guess the other side

other three. But I guess the other side of that coin is you you were a part of that big four, like one of the most incredible institutions that tennis has

ever seen. Like did a moment like that

ever seen. Like did a moment like that in Paris last year help you feel proud of being part of that?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, look, I I'm fully aware like where I sit in the the pegging order there. Like, I know that what all of those guys have gone on to

achieve is far superior to anything that I did on, you know, on the tennis court.

Um but you know also there was a period like in the middle part of my career where most major events whether that was the slams, Master Series, Olympics,

Davis Cup that one of those four players was was winning. Now granted most of the time it

winning. Now granted most of the time it was them but it wasn't always. Um,

and yeah, like I was proud to have been part of that period. And again, I'm fully aware that they what they've achieved is incredible. And I think it's, you know, it's amazing what what

they've done. Um, but yeah, there was a

they've done. Um, but yeah, there was a period in the middle part where, you know, I I was was competing against them for the biggest tournaments um most uh

most weeks. And

most weeks. And um I didn't ask to go to Rafa's ceremony. he'd asked for me to go. So I

ceremony. he'd asked for me to go. So I

went like because he asked me to go. So

when people say to me like oh what you know what you know what's he doing there? What you know why is he there? I

there? What you know why is he there? I

was like well I didn't invite myself to go along. Um

go along. Um >> how did it feel to be asked? How did in that moment?

>> Yeah. I was like yeah great. Like you

know yeah absolutely be there if that's what he wanted. If he said no or when Novak finishes he doesn't want me to go there and that's fine as well. Like, but

it's not me like forcing my way into that situation like unwanted. So, yeah.

>> Did you get one of the t-shirts?

>> Matt got a t-shirt.

>> I don't think I did get one of the t-shirts. Actually,

t-shirts. Actually, >> they're going big money on eBay.

>> I I I heard about that. Yeah, I heard they were going for big money. Have you

kept yours or you?

>> I gave it to my mom.

>> Did you? And she put it on eBay.

She actually uh she actually wore it to um the Rafa Nad doll academy that she visited this year and she was gutted that no one no one noticed it and said, "Oh, were you at the retirement

ceremony?" because she had a little

ceremony?" because she had a little story to tell, but no, no one noticed.

She was a bit annoyed about that. Um

just just on Rafa actually while we're while we're talking about him.

Obviously, I feel like the thing that gets talked about the most with Nadal is obviously his incredible record on clay.

Something that I'd be interested to hear from you about was what it was like facing him on grass. Um because

you had some Wimbledon quarterfinals and semi-finals against him. Like what was the challenge of facing the because I think people forget like he reached five Wimbledon finals in a row in terms of

when he was playing the event like early in his career. He maybe took some losses later in his career that were surprising, but he was so good on grass quite early. I'm just wondering what was

quite early. I'm just wondering what was the specific challenge for you? What did

he do so well on that surface that people maybe don't always think about?

>> Um well, I I would say that probably like his he served differently on grass than how he did um on a clay court, for example. Um that that was my feeling

example. Um that that was my feeling anyway of like sometimes I played and practiced against him on clay and it seemed like the only like at times the

only focus was to get the first serve in and play the point from there. So you

didn't really have a chance to like attack his second serve. Um whereas I played and practiced with him quite a lot on grass and on grass he it

this is just how it felt to me as a player. I don't know if this is actually

player. I don't know if this is actually the reality. I haven't looked at like

the reality. I haven't looked at like can't remember looking at like the stats and all that to back it up, but he's felt like he served faster, tried to serve more races, tried to get more free

points on his first serve. And then

on the second serve, he I felt like he also upped his speed um at times on on the grass court and because of the nature of the surface, his second serve

became a little bit harder to return return and he would serve quite a lot to me on a grass court like into my forehand body. So whereas on a clay

forehand body. So whereas on a clay court that doesn't because of the way the ball reacts off the court, the spin wouldn't really cause too much issue.

the serve would maybe come with a li little bit more like slow down off the court and a bit like top spin or kick whereas on a grass court that wouldn't happen and it would sort of slide

through and come into my body and that was I found returning against him significantly harder on a grass court than um than on the clay and then from

the back of the court like his forearm was great on every surface.

Um I think that really sort of let him down. I mean at times like if you played

down. I mean at times like if you played very fast into that side you could get a shorter ball for sure but in offensive positions his forehand was brutal on a

grass court as well. And then

I mean he he showed it off on a clay court as well but probably more so on a grass court. It's like you know he

grass court. It's like you know he finished up at the net really well. like

he had very solid volleys, good hands, he was quick at the net, like anticipates well um at the net, and he was able to use those skills more on a

grass court than maybe he did on the clay. So, yeah, there was a few things

clay. So, yeah, there was a few things that he did differently on on the surfaces, but they would be a couple.

What one of the um the things looking at the head-to-heads you had against the three of them and things we've heard all four of you talk about is the work you were putting in constantly trying to

well make incremental improvements or adjustments and and as Matt was saying you won six of your first eight against Federra and then at the end of his

career or the end of the rivalry rather when you're still kind of at your your peak he starts to win a lot in a row and we've seen that with adjustments the two of them, the three of them have made

against each other. What can you remember Fedra maybe bringing something a little different towards the end of that rivalry? Can you remember any any

that rivalry? Can you remember any any changes that you made against any of the other three that that really made things improve for you during the rivalries?

Um I would say that Federra like over the years got progressively like more offensive like particularly like with

his court position or um you know like you know my second serve was um average um at best. Um, and I

would say that as I played against him more, like he was more offensive on second serve return, tried to get on his forehand more when I was hitting second serves. Uh, whereas

at the beginning, like he would often sort of stand on the baseline. And if I served to his back, it would just like chip it back and start the rally.

Whereas towards the end, he was making more of an effort to get on his forehand and really like attack immediately in the rallies. So when I was serving that

the rallies. So when I was serving that was something he definitely did um differently I would say again like his core position that

I think got got tighter to the baseline um as his career went on. He always was pretty offensive but I would say more so if you watch him from like 20034 to

towards the end it was you you can notice uh you can notice a difference there. Um,

there. Um, and then yeah, like with with Novak, Novak was a it was a difficult match for me because sim very similar like game

styles, but he was just like everything was just a little bit better. Um, and

I I would say that the only area where I was probably stronger was was at the net. But then it's hard to sort of

net. But then it's hard to sort of exploit. is it's not like he's not like,

exploit. is it's not like he's not like, you know, good at the net. He's not like terrible net player, but how do you make that work in your advantage? Like if I'm

if I want to bring him up to the net, it's not that it's not an easy thing to do. Like you can at times, but you can't

do. Like you can at times, but you can't spend every point like hitting drop shots or hitting short balls to try and get him to come forward. So it was, you

know, wasn't really that easy for me like the sort of one advantage that I had. um I couldn't use in every single

had. um I couldn't use in every single point. One of the things that when uh

point. One of the things that when uh when I was working with Ivan Lendol and you know we had lots and lots of information data um particularly in the

match up with Novak and one of the things which there was a big difference.

So when I would hit slice backhand to Novak and when I got it to his backhand that most of the times he would come

back with a slice um and his slice is sort of quite slow whereas someone like Federra like like really knifes his slice. It was like a strength of his.

slice. It was like a strength of his.

Novak wouldn't miss many but it was a slower ball. And when I got on my

slower ball. And when I got on my forehand after that shot, so when he sliced and I was the one to get on my forehand, the percentage of points I won got was significantly higher. So that

was something towards the end when I played against him that I I focused on a lot. So when I would bring the slice

lot. So when I would bring the slice into the rally immediately, trying to get on my my forehand as as much as possible and that, you know, seemed to help a bit against him. Um, and then

Rafa, I didn't really I don't remember playing him loads towards the end.

Really felt like like a long time since I played him. I can't really remember exactly uh from a strategical sort of perspective. But there was always things

perspective. But there was always things you were trying to adjust and learn from like the previous match. But the thing that's hard and with great players like those guys is that they're also looking at those matches as well that you've

just played and are like, "Well, which things worked? which things would I do

things worked? which things would I do differently next time? And you know, they're not showing up on the court with exactly the same game plan every single time. So, you're always trying to make

time. So, you're always trying to make adjustments, but you have to be mindful in the match that you know, things things change. And that that for me is

things change. And that that for me is one of the hardest things about tennis and what I love before the sort of precoaching era was that like encore coaching was that you

you as the player had to decide like when do I decide that this strategy is not working?

You know, is this like six games into the match? Do you weigh a set to see if

the match? Do you weigh a set to see if it's working? Is it, you know,

it's working? Is it, you know, >> did you have any examples of that in a match against one of those where oh my word they're doing something different to what I expected or this is just not

working and you change? I mean off the top of my head I can't think of like a specific match but yes like playing against them there would be you know when you play against them like

as many times you go on the court and things are not happening as you want or expect and it's trying to calculate like whether is is this not working because

I'm just not executing it properly or well enough or is it because they're doing something differently or does this just not work like I thought it was

going to and it is not um and these are things that you have to work out when you're you know when you're on the court. I thought Rafa probably was

court. I thought Rafa probably was probably the strongest at that I would say you know I think you know he did always get a little bit of additional

help from from Tony um on the side. Um,

but I think he was brilliant at that, you know, making the the adjustments during matches and constantly like changing his return position or, you

know, starting to use a slice more or changing the heights of the ball and and things like I would say that he was he was very very good at that.

>> I always think of the 2022 Australian Open final is like the ultimate example of Rafa doing that. you you're big into data like as a player and a coach sounds

like. Do you think you think tennis

like. Do you think you think tennis makes enough of data?

>> But tennis is probably like quite far behind other sports in that sense. And

like you in a lot of the the team sports like they've been using like wearable technology for like well certainly the last decade but probably longer whereas

it's only been allowed since last year um on the ATP tour. So up until recently like players haven't known like you know

what's my heart rate doing in a five set match and what's the load on my body and you know all of those sorts of things. I

mean you could get estimates or guesstimates but nothing exact. Um, so I think that certainly is something that should help the sport like help players and teams understand like how they

should be training more effectively which would then you know hopefully reduce injury risk and and things like that. Um, and then

that. Um, and then data has been around for a while, but it's only recently been sorry, like statistics and stuff for matches. It's

been around a while, but it's only really become like available to all the players like fairly recently in the in the last few years. Whereas beforehand, you had like

years. Whereas beforehand, you had like a lot of the top players paying, you know, >> companies to provide their data on their

matches. um which you know was an

matches. um which you know was an advantage for sure. Whereas now a lot of that data is available to all of the players on one platform. So I could log

on and see Alcarza's last 80 hardcourt matches and look at his serving patterns and things like that. Um but again

that's also challenging because we'll you know players change like and from week to week sometimes and it's un knowing how to present that data like in

the correct way to your player and lots of the I would say sort of older generation of of coaches um

probably didn't have that when they were playing themselves and then didn't have it during their coaching career. So, I

don't think some of them are like reluctant to use it um as well. And some

people think it's just overkill and there's too much analysis and too much data and there's not enough sort of feel um for how someone should, you know,

should play against an Alcaraz or whoever. So, it's it's hard and then

whoever. So, it's it's hard and then that that comes down to the player, I think, and what does the player actually want rather than the coach just going, I'm very analytical. I love data, so I'm just going to throw all of it at this

player when actually someone like an Alcarz plays a lot on instinct, I think, and probably don't want to over complicate things for him. So, yeah.

>> Did you see the picture he posted last week of him watching the Davis Cup, >> the picture of his living room >> with all his trophies chaotically cascaded around his living room?

>> Oh, really? He's got like his Wimbledon trophy >> at the back >> right at the back on an IKEA bookshelf and sort of the Cincinnati ceramic. It's

>> Yeah, >> chaos. Um

>> chaos. Um >> I need to get a proper uh >> very endearing chaos.

>> Yeah.

>> Um where are all your trophies?

>> Um so when we moved house, my wife made like a like a trophy cabinet. like it's

downstairs out the way. But

yeah, there's one in there.

>> Must be pretty big.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah, it is pretty big. Yeah, it's

decent. Uh it's a decent decent size. Um

yeah, but actually I mean like I'm fine with them obviously like being in there, but you know it's not I don't go and you know I don't go and look at them like daily and I'm like oh

look, you know I'm not it's not Yeah.

Not something I think about. Um, yeah.

Not something I think about loads, but yeah.

>> Is the is one of the Olympic golds is at the Wimbledon Museum.

>> It was. Yeah, I actually got it back last week. Yeah, it'd been in there for

last week. Yeah, it'd been in there for I think about a year. Um, but yeah, I got it I got it back recently.

>> The at the Olympic medals in the trophy cabinet as well. Do you ever >> Olympic medals? Yeah, they're they're in there.

>> Do you ever wear them?

>> Ever wear them? Um, my kids wear them.

My kids sometimes. Uh, yeah. And I was quite precious about them at the beginning, but no, I'm just whatever.

It's fine. Scratch them up and stuff.

It's like whatever. Yeah.

>> Yeah. One of them wanted to take one of them into school. I don't know what it was. They were doing some

was. They were doing some I don't know. They were doing something.

They were doing something at school and um yeah, we're like, "No, that's a bit it's a bit much to send them in with one of them." So, we gave them like the my

of them." So, we gave them like the my Beijing Olympics like participation medal um instead, which they were happy with.

>> Have you got all your Olympic pins still?

>> I still got all of them. Yeah, I've kept all of them. Um

>> they'll be worth something on eBay as well.

>> Yeah, maybe. Yeah, I mean that was something that at the time like I absolutely loved doing at every single Olympics whereas now I'm a bit like did I

sort of spend a bit too much time walking around like the village and like stopping like at different tables in the restaurant just like oh that guy's from

Eratraa like that's a rare pin like I'll go over and ask him if he's got one and they're just like >> having scrambled eggs. And I'm like they're like like okay >> did anyone ever refuse to give you a a

pin?

>> Yeah. I mean you get rejected all of the time. All the time.

time. All the time.

>> Like it's a proper game. Like you know >> what people want to stop you having them so they can beat you.

>> Yeah. And also like you know they obviously want pins in exchange for you giving you know some people don't care.

They just want to get rid of them so that they when people show up and they're like oh do you have any pins?

They're like, "No, I don't have any."

>> Yeah.

>> But yeah, it's a bit of a game. And I

Yeah, I got really quite quite into it.

And I I got most of the I'd say most of the tennis team were were not into to the same level as me, but I got quite a few of them on board. I think

>> Andy Murray in competitive shock.

>> Yeah.

Um, you you mentioned um earlier on that you voted against that uh decision to extend the Masters 1000s. Now that

you've you're out of it all, you can look on from the side.

What would you do with tennis? I mean,

if you could I mean, if you could if you could start again, is there is there a is there a a change above all other that you'd love to see the tours, the

circuit, the sport make?

Um yeah that well there's there's quite a few things like there's a few things that I would probably yeah that I would probably change. Um

probably change. Um you know at that time as well there was also there was exemptions at the master series level. You could get up to three

series level. You could get up to three exemptions and they were they were quite hard to like achieve. One of them was like well you had to be I think you were it

was it was an age related one. So, I

think it was over 30, but it could have been more, like 32 or something, but you had to be like over 30, you could get you were allowed to miss one and not get penalized.

There was a match related one, so if you played over, again, I'm going to get this wrong, but it was, let's say, 600 matches, you could you were exempt. Um,

and then there was one that was like a certain amount of years of service on the tour. So, let's say it was like 12

the tour. So, let's say it was like 12 years of service. So you could in theory miss up to three master series and not get penalized. And that was one of the

get penalized. And that was one of the other things that when this vote was taking place was that the master series were like well we want to put up all of this prize money. we want more days, but

we want to get rid of the exemptions, which again, I was totally I was against that because I just think it's like players get older like you you need to prioritize like

certain tournaments and obviously your body has wear and tear on it and you need to make decisions like at times like well I'd like to play this tournament but you know the right thing

for me is to to skip events.

Um, and also, and I I believe this used to be the case, but if not, it should be, is that

like, let's say you missed um with one of those exemptions, let's say I missed the Paris Masters one year. Well, then

you can't miss that same Master Series the following season. Um, and I think that that's something that I think they should bring the exemptions back um for

players. So then at some stage like

players. So then at some stage like you're allowed to miss events but also bring back the because then the tournaments are not be like well I'm not I don't want that because then Alcarz

could just miss you know whichever master series he doesn't like for the rest of his career without any penalties. Um and I think that's also where

and I know a lot of people wouldn't like it because it would mess with records and things like that. I don't know if there's a way around it, but having like a two-year ranking system would allow

players to feel less um pressure uh to have to compete every single week for ranking points and worry about losing their ranking if they get an injury for three or four months. Um, you know,

that's something that I think could could help, but I don't know how that would work with, you know, with with like the record

books, you know, that's that's that's a challenge if you if you go down to your ranking system. Um, and yeah, there's

ranking system. Um, and yeah, there's there's lo there's loads of other things that I would, you know, I would want to change.

>> How protective do you feel of best of five in men's tennis? Like is that a red line? Is is protecting the existence of

line? Is is protecting the existence of best of five in men's tennis in Grand Slams? Is that a a red line that you

Slams? Is that a a red line that you wouldn't cross or do you think that kind of everything needs to be on the table?

Because it would solve a lot of lot of problems getting rid of best of five or having some sort of system where it's best of three for men and women in the first week of slams, best of five second

week of slams. It would it would even up the formats across men's and women's tennis. It would protect bodies. It's

tennis. It would protect bodies. It's

like there been a lot of advantages to it, but it's obviously something that for good reason people within the sport are fiercely protective of because there's, you know, a lot of

lot of highs and this year, you know, you've got the example of the French Open final where it's pretty hard to campaign for getting rid of best of five when you've just had that match that wouldn't have existed without it.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And and I think that for me like best of five was was great for like better players. Longer the matches go

better players. Longer the matches go on, more chance there is for you to come back and figure out and work things out.

Um so as a player like I loved it. I as

a fan like I personally this is just I would not sit and watch a best of five set match now. Um

cuz it's too long have a family got other things to do. I wouldn't I wouldn't watch um but tennis fans seem seem to enjoy best of five formats. But

I think what it comes back to is like what is what is actually the problem like with tennis? Like what is it that everyone wants to change? Like what is so bad about it? Like it's hard like

people not everyone like agrees on what the issues actually are. And like some people like players

are. And like some people like players will always complain. I did when I was a player. Um, a lot of the things that the

player. Um, a lot of the things that the players are complaining about now, they were complaints 20 years ago, um, you know, whether it's

prize money related, uh, too many tournaments, schedules wrong, um, you know, the the players will will always

uh will always complain about um about stuff probably, but I think for things to change like probably the players need to be very

clear about what it is that like what it what do you actually want? Um what are actually the you know what are actually the problems and does everyone actually agree on them? Because sometimes you

might hear players say like oh there's you know too many tournaments play too much. Generally it's the top players

much. Generally it's the top players that will say that players ranked 70 in the world maybe doesn't want less tournaments. they maybe want as many

tournaments. they maybe want as many terms as possible to earn money and you know more ranking points or opportunities for ranking points and things whereas you know the top 10

players in the world like generally they they feel like they want to play less um which is understandable they play more matches and stuff um but

then but then yeah they also um they want to play exhibitions as well and you know it's like oh there's too many tournaments Oh, but the mixed doubles at the US

Open, like that's a new event. Oh, no.

We all want to play in that. This is an amazing idea. We all want to play more

amazing idea. We all want to play more tennis because we're getting paid lots of money to do it. We're getting

appearance fees to play. And um but then lots and lots of other tennis players, particularly the doubles players, were hating that idea, but the top players

loved it. So there's always like

loved it. So there's always like it's hard to get all of the players to always agree on things. Oh, there's too many tournaments, but we're going to put a new masters here in South Saudi

Arabia. There's going to be lots and

Arabia. There's going to be lots and lots of money. Oh, yeah, that's a great idea. We all want to play in that event.

idea. We all want to play in that event.

That's really good. So,

it's it's hard to know exactly what what it is that um what all the tournaments won, what the Grand Slams won, what the

players won, and to come to some sort of agreement. It's very difficult.

agreement. It's very difficult.

>> Would you have wanted to play in that event? You famously turned down a big

event? You famously turned down a big offer from Saudi.

>> Yeah. So I think where it becomes difficult is that you you know there's obviously exhibitions and players choosing to go and play there for money

and the tour that you're playing as part of making decision about where they're going to host an event and if they're going to play uh put a master series on and it's a mandatory event that players

have to go and play well then I'm going to play there because the ATP are putting an event on there and it's part of my tour and I'm going to go and compete there cuz that's how I earn my

my living. Whereas an exhibition is a

my living. Whereas an exhibition is a decision that a player is taking like I want to go and play in this event. I

want to earn lots of money. I was

offered to play in an exhibition in Saudi Arabia multiple times. I said no that I I wasn't going to do that. Um but

then yeah, we also play in um lots of countries around the world that have maybe questionable um you know, human rights um you know,

records and we went and played in those countries, you know, particularly when it was part of like our tour and that was not considered a problem. Um so

yeah it's it it's it's it's challenging. Um, you

know, it's challenging for the sport to to get everything right and to keep everybody happy. Um, but I do think

everybody happy. Um, but I do think there's things that like one one of the things that players complain about um all of the time is they say and I was

one of them as well. I'm not saying that it's just players of today like you know players 20 years ago complained about it and stuff was like the tennis balls you know it's like oh tennis balls are

changing every week tennis balls are so heavy is what you hear all of the time and the tennis players are not tennis balls are not more heavy than than they

used to be like there is a a limit that they have to sit between which has been the same for like over 20 years. Tennis

balls are not heavier than they used to be, but the game has changed, I would say, and players are hitting the ball harder for sure. The courts have become

like grainier and slower generally. Um,

and the balls because of that like because I think because the players hitting the ball harder, grainier courts, slower courts, sandy courts, is

that the balls um it always sounds funny talking about this, but the balls fluff up um more, you know, then they're less aerodynamic.

They become slower. So, they're not actually heavier. They're just slower

actually heavier. They're just slower tennis balls. And I feel like

tennis balls. And I feel like if that is the case that what like the tourists could do is just easily like why don't you change bowls after five

and seven games instead of seven and nine games. Like if that is an issue um

nine games. Like if that is an issue um for the players or why don't you start the match with nine balls instead of six balls. um you know, yes, there's there's

balls. um you know, yes, there's there's probably, you know, a cost um that comes with that, but if that is something that all of the players have

an issue with, then why could they not do that? And also like if they're

do that? And also like if they're worried about the balls changing every week, well, couldn't the couldn't the tours like create their own tennis ball?

Um and then whoever is whether it's I don't know Wilson head Yonx like if they want to sponsor the ball for the event just

sponsor it and print the Yonx logo on it or the Wilson logo or whatever and the players then have got the same ball for a whole season or a whole string of

events like on the hard courts or clay and they don't you don't hear the complaints about them changing B.

players will probably still find a way to complain about it, but if they were the same every week, then you you can eliminate that quite quickly. I would

think I don't know if that's something that the manufacturers want like but I don't think it's good for manufacturers to create a ball and then the players to be just saying every ball's terrible

posting pictures of it like oh look at the difference from one game to the next. These balls are awful.

next. These balls are awful.

So, I don't see why that couldn't couldn't work.

>> Was being on the player council frustrating from all these points of view. Sort of lack of

view. Sort of lack of unity of of feeling and cohesion and sort of

cohesion of agendas and aims. >> Yeah, I I hated it. And I went back to do it a second time because I'd been asked to to do it and I was I didn't

enjoy it first time.

did it again. But yeah, I just I didn't enjoy it because you know sometimes you would be sitting in meetings like the day before a master's series for three

or four hours and um you know it didn't feel like much was getting done like you you tennis tennis players like obviously

we understand our sport but also we're not like intelligent people most of us um you know or well educated either. So

you get like 10 of us in a room like talking about stuff that we don't really know that much about. Um you know like from a business perspective.

Um and yeah at times it was just like lots of players having conversations to the person next to them and actually nothing really gets done. And then at

times like I remember going into meetings with the slams um with uh with Roger Rafa and Novak about about prize

money. I can't remember exactly what

money. I can't remember exactly what year it was, but anyway, went to quite a lot of these meetings and spoke to all the slams, you know, individually before

these slams took place, which is obviously a time where, you know, you want to be concentrating and focusing on your tennis and preparing and stuff, but you know, did it because felt like it was the right thing to do.

And then the slams at the end of that year like they increased their prize money and I remember it was like Australia announced um when we were there I think like

you know that they were going to up increase their prize money or whatever and then first player that I saw I'm not going to name his name but went up to him I was like who'd been complaining

and was so vocal about the prize money slams I was like look I was like they did it like we went and spoke to them they did it they bought the prize money by however much it was he like, "Yeah,

but it's not enough." And I'm like, "You know, like, so I don't know. I don't know what it is that that exactly what it is that the

players won." Um, yes, the players I

players won." Um, yes, the players I feel should probably get paid more at the Grand Slams, but I think if they really want to to change it, they need

to be very clear about about what it is that they what it is that they actually they actually want.

And I think the tour could be, you know, the the ideal thing I think would be like if the Australian Open was like two weeks later, but then it makes sense to

do it like that because the players then get a longer off season time to rest and then actually build up and prepare. But then

and prepare. But then um but then the Australian Open don't want to move because it's then not in the kids summer holidays. So, they're

back at school and they're worried about like attendance and things like that.

Um, so yeah, I I don't know. There's just there's always there's always um yeah, there's always problems.

>> Yeah, that just about sums it up. Should

we um should we finish with some more stuff about you? Some lighter stuff. I'm

curious. Um,

what's like the most normal thing that you've gotten to do and gotten to enjoy that you didn't used to get to do?

>> Like one of the >> I mean I probably I wouldn't describe it as like a normal thing to do. We're

lucky that we're able to do it but uh skiing like I've absolutely loved doing that. I

never never skied in my life. Had always

wanted to like I love the snow.

>> Is that because of in risk of injury?

>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I think contractually there's a few issues around getting injured doing like extreme >> sports. Um

>> sports. Um >> it invalidates health insurance, I'm sure.

>> Yeah. So I think you need to be a bit careful about doing it. I know some players, you know, I think like s and like is Novak's a very good skier as

well. Um so yeah, I know that lots of

well. Um so yeah, I know that lots of players do it, but I never skied as a kid. I'd always wanted to ski but was

kid. I'd always wanted to ski but was pretty much everyone I know that has skied has injured themselves skiing. Um

my best friend who went skiing with uh Ross Hutchkins um who's now got a big job at the ITF as well. So a lot of these issues we're

well. So a lot of these issues we're discussing he'll be uh he'll be responsible for. Um no but yeah like he

responsible for. Um no but yeah like he fractured his eye socket when we went last time. Um,

last time. Um, yeah. So, lots of people that I know

yeah. So, lots of people that I know that ski have had bad injuries. So,

>> have you been okay so far skiing?

>> Okay. Okay. In terms of no injuries, I mean, okay, in terms of my level of skiing, no. Um, it's pretty ropey, but

skiing, no. Um, it's pretty ropey, but I've loved doing that. like yeah like a new thing that I've got to experience since I finished which I've done with my friends and family that you know kids

are learning to ski and yeah like amazing yeah just amazing thing to get to do great skill to to have and brilliant holiday so yeah

>> I I've seen you um advertising potatoes >> yes >> um do you now that you've got this time on your hands apart from the golf have you got specialist go to family meal

that you prep. Are you do you like time in the kitchen?

>> Apart from the potatoes, um >> what's your favorite type of potato?

Like if you could only have one type of potato.

>> Sorry to hijack your question. Just to

stay on potatoes for another moment.

Mashed jacket, doino.

>> I mean, >> pant. I like a thick cut chip.

>> pant. I like a thick cut chip.

Oh, no. I'm a

>> really >> I'm a skinny fry person.

>> Well, skinny is more unhealthy.

>> Yeah, but it's about vinegar absorption.

It's about >> you vinegar on chips.

>> Vinegar on everything. It can go on.

Yeah.

>> Ketchup or brown brown sauce for me.

>> So, you you you telling me you hand make chips?

>> No.

>> With Okay.

>> No. No. No. Okay. No. I don't hand make them.

>> So, sorry. Back to David's question.

>> No. My cooking I've I don't cook.

I'm a terrible >> I'm glad I hijacked the question.

>> So I No, I I used to cook um more So we get these like sort of they're not ready meals but from Mindful Chef. Have

you you heard of them? Yeah. So I would do I would do them.

>> Um but there's obviously like there's a recipe that you follow um and all of the ingredients are there so you don't mess up like the amount of stuff you're meant to put in.

>> Yeah. But the problem for me is that I will follow the instruction down to a T and if something is not going quite right, I have had no idea how to make adjustments.

So like if I was making like uh like a sauce that needed to be thicker >> and the 20 minutes was up or however long it was meant to be, it was like

panic panic stations. So I didn't know how to react to issues in the kitchen.

And then we ended up having a terrible meal when I was doing that. So then I retired from cooking as well as tennis.

>> Yeah. I was all right cuz I was just cooking for myself. So

>> yeah, >> if it was a disaster, >> you had got dises looking at him.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. But when Yeah. When you're trying to feed a family, it's um >> it's got a little pressure.

>> Bit pressure.

>> Yeah. Kids aren't always that um >> forgiving. Yeah. forgiving if you get a

>> forgiving. Yeah. forgiving if you get a meal wrong or something's not quite right. Particularly my four-year-old,

right. Particularly my four-year-old, she's she'll let you know >> if they enjoyed having you around more.

>> I mean, I I think so.

>> Did it take some getting used to >> for the family? For the family. Cuz I'm

guessing like they had a routine like >> Yeah. I mean, particularly my eldest for

>> Yeah. I mean, particularly my eldest for particularly my eldest daughter. Um the

rest of them not so much because yes I was still playing at the end but there was also quite quite a few periods where I was at home um a lot through the

injuries and and things. So I wasn't on the road quite as much. Whereas with my eldest daughter, like it was I think quite like a big change for her, like a big adjustment and like beca, you know,

she was finding it hard like if I had to be the one to take her to school or to pick her up and take her to a club or being around her friends and things like

that. Um, and that's something that she

that. Um, and that's something that she certainly was finding um, difficult. And

if I was getting any attention when I was with her, she really like struggled with, you know, really struggled with that. And it was only last week when I I

that. And it was only last week when I I picked her up from net ball. Uh and it was the first time she actually walked

next to me back to the car. Um and yeah, I said to her, I was like, you know, that that's the first time you've ever and she sort of smiled at me and I think now

is a bit less embarrassed by me um >> for now.

>> For now. Yeah. Um, I mean, I'm sure in a few years that's, you know, that's coming. But, um, yeah, like this

coming. But, um, yeah, like this morning, like my son's got into board games. Like, I already um had, they were

games. Like, I already um had, they were up at 5:45. Um, that's every morning.

Two of them get up at that time. I was

playing Monopoly at 6:00 a.m. this

morning with a six-year-old.

>> I mean, positive juices flowing.

>> Yeah. So yesterday

>> takes quite a long time to play a game of Monopoly.

>> My parents tell me about it.

>> Ban Monopoly in my house because it caused so many arguments between me and my brother. Yeah.

my brother. Yeah.

>> Yeah. So I I taught him how to play Monopoly a few days ago and then I played um I played with >> I played with him yesterday. Um, I

played two games with him and he won the first game and then the second game, um, he was in a good position and he'd got it in his head that it was just me and him playing that he wanted to put hotels

on Mayfair and Park Lane. This was

Monopoly Sterling edition, by the way, which it's Sterling Castle and somewhere else in Sterling. Okay, so he decided he

wanted to put hotels on the two blue ones. He only had Mayfair.

ones. He only had Mayfair.

So I was explaining to him like, "Yeah, but you need to land on this one first.

You've got three of this, the red ones.

Like you should probably think about putting the houses and stuff on there first." And he was like, "No, I'm going

first." And he was like, "No, I'm going to save my money not putting I want to land on this one." And I was like, "Yeah, but you may never land on them."

Anyway, I had um the purple ones and the orange ones or the pink ones and the orange ones and had a few like three houses on

the pink ones. He was in a great position. He had lots of money. Landed

position. He had lots of money. Landed

on the pink ones, got whatever it was, 400, 500 quid, and then I used that money to put like a hotel on the orange ones. And then on his next roll, he

ones. And then on his next roll, he landed on the hotel, killed him off, bottom lip, went gone. And I'm like,

>> what's Yeah, like you need to do it.

Like, he needs to learn. But I'm like, now I have to deal with like a meltdown over a game of Monopoly that I've been playing for the last two hours.

Anyway, that's what I do now.

>> I can tell. Yeah.

>> Yeah.

um heard you say on Romesh's podcast you've got ambitions to be a caddy.

Is that right? Is that

>> I mean I would I would like to do it.

Um, but it was like in a certain context, like becoming a caddy full-time is not something I would do, but I was like as like a dream job. Like for me now, like

if you could say, "Oh, you know, you could like it's a realistic thing that's it's possible." Like I couldn't say,

it's possible." Like I couldn't say, "Oh, I want to win the masters in golf."

Like, but saying, "Oh, I could become a caddy." And imagine catting for Rory

caddy." And imagine catting for Rory Mroy or Robert McIntyre in the last group of a major. Like that would be, you know, it' be a cool thing to do for

someone who loves golf. But I have no plans to actually become a professional caddy and do the job full-time. There's a lot of a lot of

job full-time. There's a lot of a lot of work and travel involved. And you know, these guys are bloody good as well. like

they spend years like understanding like that profession and they're all ve most of them very very good golfers as well so I mean it's something you could probably do for a week like some you

know players have you know their partners with them on the bag and stuff like you know they're not all amazing golfers but >> my golf coach's wife is his caddy >> really

>> and I think Lee Westwood's wife >> remain married yeah um are you are you up for offering ing some some golf some golf tips or assessments.

>> Yeah.

>> This is Indian Wells couple of years ago, >> right? So, I mean, even before you

>> right? So, I mean, even before you started >> Oh, no.

>> I mean, that looks to me like you're literally like >> I mean, it's okay. It looks like quite a lot of your weight is on your heels.

>> Quite useful >> already. Um,

>> already. Um, >> where should it be? Well, I think more is slightly more towards the like mid front of the foot, I would say.

>> Do you play a lot of golf?

>> What do you think?

>> What's this? See, it always makes me laugh when amateurs do this sort of thing cuz you sort of You might know that you do is you did like a little sort of wiggle little wiggle that I've

got a bit of the man sort of >> and then No, but it's a guy I do it as well. like, you know, we go through this

well. like, you know, we go through this like routine and then hit the ball like 20 yards in front of us and it's just Yeah, it's funny. So, you've got a little wiggle going.

>> Yeah. I mean,

>> lost.

>> So, >> that was first first shot of the round.

I mean, it's a tough first shot, isn't it?

>> Yeah. You did the wiggle twice there.

Three three four.

So, I'd try and get rid of that.

>> Okay.

>> Right. Wow. You hit a bird there. It

looks like it's good.

>> I assume you weren't trying to do that.

>> I mean, that is a tricky first T-shot.

Um, to be fair, >> and it was an extremely narrow course.

There's houses all around. We felt a bit watched.

>> Well, >> I mean, when you say narrow, I mean, >> I can't see any houses close to you.

>> Well, just you wait. Just

>> Oh, there's more coming, is there?

Okay, >> but at least I might be able to retrieve it.

>> Are you Do you come on straight after this?

>> God, everyone's watching us, don't they?

>> Oh, no. Well, I'm assuming you must have hit it into a hose.

>> How have you managed to Surely you haven't done that. Nice shoes.

>> Thank you.

>> Okay. Oops.

Right. Wow. I mean, those hands are literally in between your legs, which is incredible.

>> Yeah, you do have some >> Oh my lord.

You do have some serious height. Um,

which makes it tricky. I mean, I'm assuming they're rental clubs as well.

Yeah, >> this is how close I've just come to hitting somebody's windows. Sorry,

folks.

>> Did you enjoy your round? I mean,

there's not loads I can say about that.

>> I feel worse about it now. It got

>> It got It got better, >> did it?

>> Yeah. It's a humbling sport, isn't it?

>> We actually played with Dan Evans on that trip.

>> Okay.

>> A few rounds later when we were much more informed.

>> Yeah.

>> Was he good that day?

>> For the first shot.

>> Yeah. We're actually sticking with him.

>> Sorry. Did you say you played with Dan Evans?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Dan's

>> generally pretty good. Good player.

>> I think he we brought him down to our level.

>> So your advice to David is be less tall and your advice to Matt is get rid of the wiggle.

>> Yeah. I think weight probably slightly further forwards.

>> I mean, the four wiggles before >> cut those out.

>> Yeah, I think it's fine.

>> You got to hit a good shot.

>> Yeah, fine. If you're going to hit a decent shot, but if you spend that much time preparing to hit the ball that badly, I think the people that you're playing with are like, "Oh my god, like >> this is his third T-shot. First two have

gone in the water >> and he's wing.

>> Let's just try and just get the swing going." I think

going." I think >> noted.

>> But yeah, I think you looked like you needed maybe some longer clubs potentially. They looked a bit They

potentially. They looked a bit They looked a little bit small.

>> Okay. And then I'll be fine.

>> Can I ask one last question? Have you

been asked to go on the Celebrity Traers?

>> No, but it's funny because a lot of people have asked me that and apparently there had been like some articles saying that I one that I was going to go on the first season and then that I don't know

that I'd been asked to go on the next season. Neither of them are true. Um I

season. Neither of them are true. Um I

haven't watched it.

>> Would you take the call?

>> No.

Do you do you watch Traitors?

>> I watched one of the first seasons of Traitors um with the like >> civilians now.

>> Yeah, the civilians. Um but yeah, all of my friends have been talking about the celebrity one. I haven't I've not

celebrity one. I haven't I've not watched any of it. My wife was totally anti the >> the civilian one, which I was actually quite enjoying, but then yeah, celebrity one I've not I haven't watched yet. I'm

sorry to disappoint. You could just be being a great traitor and you know giving us a >> maybe it gets announced next week that I'm on there. I believe

>> we'll cross our fingers. Andy, thank you so much for your time. It's been great.

>> That's all right. Thank you.