The Death of "Art" on YouTube

The focus has shifted away from the creativity part of creator and shifted towards the economy part. You don't have to fit in a lane. There's a million lanes. And if your lane doesn't exist,

lanes. And if your lane doesn't exist, just go ahead and start it. If you're in it because you want to make money, you want to get the views, like, [ __ ] you. I

don't care about you.

>> So, we've been wanting to make this episode ever since we started this channel. And the fact that we got to do

channel. And the fact that we got to do it in front of our audience live at PressPublish NYC and surprise everyone in the room with Casey Neistat, that was kind of a dream come true. When it comes

to our career as creators, there is no one more influential than Casey Neistat.

>> So, in this conversation, we talked to Casey about his perspective on what is now called the creator economy.

>> We also talk about what he considers to be his all-time greatest episode of the vlog and what made it so great. We also

talk about his perspective on the world of Hollywood getting involved with creators like Mr. Beast. And lastly, we touch on the first time we ever met

Casey, which was one of the most awkward and cringe-worthy encounters of our lives.

>> We've thought about it pretty much every single day since it happened, >> and we finally got to talk it out live on stage, which is actually kind of like just this nice cathartic experience.

>> Felt like closure.

>> Now, Press Publish NYC was made possible by a few sponsors who really saw our vision before we put on this event. And

one of those is a longtime partner of ours, Adobe. They're also the sponsor of

ours, Adobe. They're also the sponsor of this episode. Tell you more about that

this episode. Tell you more about that later in the conversation.

[Music] [Applause] >> Um, Casey, where have you been?

>> You know, before we get into that, I have a question. Is the reason why I was a surprise announcement because you didn't think I was going to show up?

>> Absolutely. 100%.

>> Yeah. the the break would have been longer. It was going to be a surprise to

longer. It was going to be a surprise to us whether you showed up.

>> Okay.

>> It was mostly a surprise to us. I did.

That is a real thing. Yes.

>> Yeah.

>> I was super on time. I'm not great with scheduling. I couldn't be happier to be

scheduling. I couldn't be happier to be here.

>> Great to see you all.

>> Okay, back to my question. What have you been up to?

>> I have no idea. Where have the years gone?

you how deep you are, but how should we just right here? How

>> you guys vote on how deep we how deep?

How deep?

>> Really deep. Very deep. All right.

>> Okay. This is a deep meaningful therapy session here cuz I was just having this conversation with a friend yesterday.

I think I made a movie about this which we could just watch instead of me having to explain. But you know, when my son

to explain. But you know, when my son was born, when I was a kid, we had like no money. It was a really tough go of

no money. It was a really tough go of it. And I fantasized about what I would

it. And I fantasized about what I would do when I had kids again later in life.

And I painted this like portrait of what that would be. And then by hard work and all that [ __ ] mostly luck, I like got

that. I achieved like that thing right

that. I achieved like that thing right when my daughters were born. Like I had just sold Beam. I had like the YouTube thing. Like all this [ __ ] happened and I

thing. Like all this [ __ ] happened and I found myself in this position that I had these two little girls. And then I got really spooked because of YouTube fame and I was like, you know, like [ __ ]

this. Let me just go away and hang out

this. Let me just go away and hang out with my kids for a while.

And that was like 7 years ago.

And it's like a really amazing, awesome, special thing, but it's also like really indulgent. And I think I might be like,

indulgent. And I think I might be like, you know, when your dad catches you smoking in the basement, he makes you smoke the entire carton of cigarettes. I

think I've like I might need to get back to work soon because I'm I'm starting to lose the lose the story a little bit.

>> So, you smoked the entire carton of cigarettes?

>> It's been [ __ ] fantastic of relaxation, >> of taking a break, >> of being a dad of like spending time with my kids. Like, I don't know, I'm 44

and my dad's 73 and he just retired. And

I was like, you know, five years ago, I looked at my life and I was like, I'm in a position to not retire, but to like take a piece of life that most people don't get the opportunity to do till much later. Let me just like take a cash

much later. Let me just like take a cash advance on that and do it right now.

>> Yeah.

>> And that's what it's been. And it's been great. And like I think I'm like the

great. And like I think I'm like the luckiest human being in the world to have had that opportunity.

>> Yeah. I want to ask you about your perspective on the creator economy now because when I was watching you during the daily vlogs to me you were the heart and center of the creator economy. You

were the proudest of creators. You were

putting them in your vlogs amplifying them. You were proud of the the format

them. You were proud of the the format of this new version of media. And I

think that was inspiring to smear and I and it was inspiring to a lot of people.

And then like you said, you kind of stepped away and the creator economy has has sort of run and it's gone in a direction. I'd be curious outside,

direction. I'd be curious outside, you know, having not posted as much frequently, not being in it as much.

What's your perspective, both the good and the bad of where we're at now?

>> Well, I resent your usage of the term creator economy to begin with. I

I've always been good at business and I've always like it's always been a major priority of mine, but I always had a real distinction between creator and and economy. And you know, I was doing

and economy. And you know, I was doing the daily show and I was like anytime I saw someone interesting, no matter how big of a creator, how small of a creator they were, I wanted them to like come on my channel so I could tell the world

about them because they're awesome. But

it was never the economy part. So I I have a take on that, but it was less important then because then it was like I couldn't have been more excited about the creative aspect of YouTube. And

maybe to give like an abbreviated I feel like I've told this story a million times in my life, but you know like I I started working in sort of mainstream movies and Hollywood and like I produced

the Safy brothers first two movies and I had a show on HBO and I worked directing traditional TV commercials and I did that whole thing and it [ __ ] sucked.

And then I found YouTube and I was like, this is a place where there's no distance between the work that I want to make and the audience. Like it's the most virtuous amazing thing ever. And I

got really excited, but purely from like a creativity perspective. And I feel like that's what I was trying to do with my daily vlog. The creators I get

excited by, that's why I get excited about them. And I feel like in the last

about them. And I feel like in the last decade, like 2015, 2025, I feel like the the the priority, the focus is shifted

away from the creativity part of creator and shifted towards the economy part of creator and it breaks my [ __ ] heart and it makes me so sad.

>> Mhm.

>> Um I I understand it and I celebrate those who are able to make like money, make a living off of it. Um it's an incredible success because that's really hard to do. But there's a there's a

difference between like art, not to use like be pretentious, but like the art of it and then the economy of it. And I

feel like there's been a lot of surrendering of the art of it and zeroing in on the, you know, the the business of it. But I think that's like the inherent nature of publishing video to a platform like YouTube where it's

almost like a video game. Both like your bank account and your YouTube channel are numbers on a screen that go up or down, right? And I I would assume like

down, right? And I I would assume like you said you got spooked by by fate. I

would also and assume and you tell me if there's like a little bit of a there's obviously a drug to the numbers going up on the screen. So I guess to the creators in the room and to like the creators on YouTube, what is the

cautionary tale or what is the caution of that drug from your experience of the numbers going up and down on this?

>> I don't know. I mean, I'm I'm I'm hard pretty hardlined about it. You know, let me just give a little bit more context.

>> It's not unique what I just described to YouTube. Yeah. Like, I think a really

YouTube. Yeah. Like, I think a really good example of that is like cinema in the 1970s was for me like peak cinema because the studios didn't know what a successful movie was. They're just

making all kinds of movies like Harold and Ma and these like movies that could never be made today and some of the greatest cinema in history was made and some of them are really financially successful 50 years ago and now we have

Netflix which has all of the data.

Netflix is the Mr. Beast of of cinema >> and they like what do people want to see? They want action. They want this

see? They want action. They want this star and they're just putting out like it's [ __ ] So this is not unique to YouTube. It is just like this is what

YouTube. It is just like this is what happens to art when they're when you have access to the data behind it. So I

don't I don't fault creators for that and I don't fault the industry. This is

just this is a very natural thing, right?

>> I just have always fallen the thing that gets me excited that I'm passionate about is always the creative and the business lives in a different different world. Now what was your question?

world. Now what was your question?

>> No, >> I think that was kind of the question.

>> I don't think it was >> I think I just asked you what you've been up to. That's it.

>> No, no, no. You asked a specific question. And I said, "Let me give you

question. And I said, "Let me give you context."

context." >> I just the cautionary like how do you how do you >> I see how rationalize like cuz like even for me, you know, when I first got into this, I was like, I want to be a filmmaker. But what what naturally

filmmaker. But what what naturally happens is you search for validation and validation in our world comes from views and money and you're trying to navigate yourself as an artist or as a creative and immediately these people are paying you for something and you're like, I

guess that's the thing I should do. Or

these people are watching something, I guess that's the thing I should do. And

then when that dips, you're like, "Oh, I guess that's the thing I shouldn't do."

Right? And like you're trying to navigate yourself. And I'm just curious

navigate yourself. And I'm just curious like if you if you've experienced that feeling, >> of course. And like I have a hardline take on it that I'm reluctant to to,

>> you know, to really represent because I'm I I am successful. I have made money. I have financial like I've done

money. I have financial like I've done all these things. So it's easy for me to say. Yeah,

say. Yeah, >> but now that I want to talk about the two biggest factors in us watching Casey Neistat's vlogs and the

second was downloading Adobe Premiere Pro. Adobe has been a part of our

Pro. Adobe has been a part of our creator journey literally since day one.

I designed our logo in Adobe Illustrator. All of our graphics are

Illustrator. All of our graphics are done in After Effects and every single episode of this show has been edited in Premiere Pro. It felt really surreal to

Premiere Pro. It felt really surreal to have Adobe be a sponsor of PressPublish NYC and to be a sponsor of this episode because if you're a creator like us, then Adobe has probably been a huge part of your life and is probably a big part

of your day-to-day. At PressPublish NYC, we partnered with Adobe to host a session all about the future of storytelling. And during that session,

storytelling. And during that session, Jared from Adobe announced that Premiere is now going to be on mobile. Now,

everyone in the room, including us, got early access to Premiere on mobile. And

after testing it, it's not like a stripped down version of Premiere.

Premiere Mobile has everything from multitrack editing to 4K HDR support, motion effects, and even background removal. And you can do all of this on

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>> Now, if you're like me and you need to like sit at a computer to edit, you can actually start a project on mobile and then move it over to desktop and finish it in Premiere Pro. That's really cool.

>> That's That's cool.

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>> So, thanks so much to Adobe for supporting our careers and supporting our vision with Press Publish NYC. So,

click the link in the description and you can try Adobe Premiere mobile. It is

completely free. All right. Now, back to our conversation with Casey Neistat.

That hardline thing is like if you're in it because you want to make money, you want to get the view, like [ __ ] you. I

don't care about you.

>> Like, there's a place for you and you you might be able to find success in that world, but I don't care. get

someone else to talk about that because I don't give a [ __ ] about that. That is

so uninteresting for me. Like none of that excites me. The the creators that excite me are people who make something because they love making it. And there's

often a connection between people who make stuff because they love making it and success. It's usually not as

and success. It's usually not as successful as the people who are just there to win. Like a great example of this is the Academy Awards are like 80 or 90 years old. I used to know the

exact number 19. Yeah. 90 something

years old. And in the history of the Academy Awards, the amount of movies that were the highest grossing movie of the year that also won best picture, it's happened like twice, like Return of the King and I can't remember the other

one. Which means the movies that

one. Which means the movies that artistically were the most celebrated were 97% of the time not the ones that made the most money. And I love the

movies that were most celebrated. Like I

love good art and good creativity. So

your question about like what's the cautionary tale? I think it's like be

cautionary tale? I think it's like be honest with yourself about why you're getting into it. The reason why I'm such a huge fan of Jimmy Donaldson, like I'm the biggest Mr. Beast fan is because I clarity of his purpose.

>> Yeah.

>> Jimmy, like I've known Jimmy since he started on YouTube and when we met before he was Mr. Beast, he never said to me like, "How can I be a great filmmaker? I want to tell the best

filmmaker? I want to tell the best stories. I want to make art." He never

stories. I want to make art." He never said that to me.

>> He came to me and he was like, "I want the most [ __ ] views." And I was like, I like your focus, man. I like your focus. And I was like, I was like,

focus. And I was like, I was like, >> that's consistent to today.

>> Yeah. I was like, I don't I don't know, bro. Like,

bro. Like, >> yeah, >> I don't know. Like, try this. Get 10

people to stand in a red circle. I'm

just kidding. That was not my idea.

>> But like, that's what I respect about Jimmy. Jimmy has never claimed to be

Jimmy. Jimmy has never claimed to be anything but exactly what he is.

>> And he's succeeded in that world beyond anyone that's come before him. And I

have tremendous admiration for that.

It's the conflation. It's when people, you know, they say they want to be artist, they care, they say they care about the creativity, but all that matters to them is that blue line.

>> I don't have I don't know what to >> I don't have what's the app called where you see your stats.

>> YouTube Studio.

>> I don't have that app.

>> That's so healthy.

>> Yeah, it's a good decision.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. It's made my life so much better.

>> Yeah.

>> Um but again, it's really easy for me to say, right? It's really [ __ ] easy for

say, right? It's really [ __ ] easy for me to say.

>> Do you have any rules for yourself around how you commercialize your art?

Because when I look back prevlog with you, one of my favorite series ever was your Mercedes CLA >> project where you made four separate videos about

>> uh making an ad for Mercedes. And that

inspired Samir and I a lot. And whenever

we would get the opportunity to work with a brand very very early on, we would just say like we'll make you a four-part series, two-part series. Like

we'll we'll make a whole thing about this. We'll make a whole show. And then

this. We'll make a whole show. And then

that that kind of shifted. Now people

don't even really want that. They just

want you to kind of like talk about it and integrate it. But I'd be curious how you look at like how do you commercialize it and still keep to your taste?

>> Did you just say you got in trouble for that?

>> I had so much trouble for that. I can't

talk about it.

>> You can't talk about it? But I did in the end like there was supposed to be like a seven figureure ad by buy behind the Mercedes campaign and in the end they're like you can publish it and they killed the entire ad buy

because of like internal politics and stuff. We left on good terms. Okay,

stuff. We left on good terms. Okay, parenthetical to that. This was not why things went south with the Mercedes deal. But the CLA they gave me was a

deal. But the CLA they gave me was a pre-production one that was meant to be pushed onto the floor of like New York City auto show. Like they didn't have a finished one. This thing was like put

finished one. This thing was like put together by hand. Had no suspension.

like the door gaps really wide and stuff and they like loaned it to me on the back of a flatbed truck and I brought it out to the Bonavville Salt Flats and was doing 360s at 90 miles an hour during rehearsal and we totaled it.

>> Oh, really?

>> And we had to put it on the back of the truck and cover it. All Mercedes was like, "Cover it. Do not let anyone photograph it." That was my bad.

photograph it." That was my bad.

>> Um, and they were chill about that.

Mercedes was they were incredible to work with. There was just some political

work with. There was just some political [ __ ] at the end that that made that go south, which is a real bummer. Um, but

your question about how do I navigate it? I think it's challenging. You know,

it? I think it's challenging. You know,

I will say one thing that's that's awesome and virtuous and that all the creators in this room get the benefit from is that when I made the Mercedes campaign, I think it was 2012 or when when Max and I made make it count for

Maxis over there. When Max Joseph and I made make it count for Nike, before we got to do those sorts of campaigns, you had to first convince the client. You

had to convince Nike. You had to convince Mercedes that this was a good idea that anyone on YouTube might give a [ __ ] about their car or their sneakers or their light up wristband. And that

was the hardest part. And now that is just it is understood. Like my agent said to me, YouTube is the most important platform on television. Like

there's no doubting the role that all of you play in in the economy of of advertising and marketing. And that's an incredible thing. Like to have seen that

incredible thing. Like to have seen that happen is a really amazing thing for me.

It's it's tough because like I still do need to, you know, make some living.

Like I'm I I need to I need income and the value even though I don't post as much and I probably don't get as many views, the value of reach just keeps going up. So even though like my

going up. So even though like my relevance as I spend four months in the summer playing with my kids in the sand goes down, the value of YouTube reach continues to go up. So, I still get

really meaningful opportunities and it's challenging for me because I don't put out a lot of work. So, if I'm doing something with a brand, I want to make sure there's really good alignment. And

every time I've done deals with brands that just want like a standard ad read, >> I've never really landed the plane.

Like, it's it's always felt kind of [ __ ] I think there's something super honest about doing a brand read, like pause and be like, "This video is sponsored by I think that's a totally cool transa." When I see creators do

cool transa." When I see creators do that, I want to high-five the screen because I'm proud of them for getting that brand deal.

>> They did it. They got paid. Like, that's

a validation.

Creatively, it's really challenging.

>> Yeah.

>> And right now, brands value almost always brands value the reach more than the creativity. When Max and I did Nike,

the creativity. When Max and I did Nike, there was no reach. They only valued the creativity. Mercedes only valued the

creativity. Mercedes only valued the creativity. And that's really I remember

creativity. And that's really I remember the first time I got a brand deal, my agent called me and it was a significant dollar deal. And I was like, "What's the

dollar deal. And I was like, "What's the creative?" And she was like, "No, they

creative?" And she was like, "No, they just want you to do a 30 second read."

And I was like, "They want me to do what now?"

now?" >> Yeah.

>> She's like, "They just want you to." And

I was like, my feelings were so hurt. I

was like, "They only like me for my followers." And she's like, "They

followers." And she's like, "They literally only like you because of your followers. Take the money."

followers. Take the money."

>> Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting because that's kind of a format that was borrowed from the radio. You know what I mean? Like it's like in the middle of

mean? Like it's like in the middle of the program and you break and you say who the sponsor is. Um, but on that note, like YouTube has been the most watched app on connected TVs for the past 6 months, which is honestly insane

that like more than Disney, more than Netflix, more than Hulu. So, in this world where like we're all competing on the same screen now, what do you find interesting? Like what do you think is

interesting? Like what do you think is interesting today? What are you

interesting today? What are you interested in for yourself? Like what's

capturing your attention um on the screens?

>> I can't remember his name. I'll look it up so I can say his name. Mark Felton.

He's my favorite YouTuber.

>> What does he make?

>> Mark Felton Productions. He's like some middle-aged older British dude who's really not good at making YouTube videos >> and he puts out like two videos a week and I've watched him blow up.

>> What is he talking about?

>> He picks out hyper esoteric um aspects of World War II. He's a

historian. They're perfectly his Do you know Mark Felton Productions? Are you

[ __ ] crazy? I've never met someone who knows Mark Felton production, >> dude. This is the room to meet.

>> dude. This is the room to meet.

>> And it like it has this intro and it's like he's like, "Hello. Today on Mark Felton Productions, we will discuss the handgun that changed the face of war

from September 4 to September 19th, 1941." And it's 12 minutes. I'm like,

1941." And it's 12 minutes. I'm like,

"Fascinated."

And he's like 2 million subscribers.

>> That's amazing.

>> His videos are all evergreen. And for me it's like it's indicative of the fact that like I'm interested in something very narrow.

>> Yeah.

>> And there's this guy and if five years ago or 10 years ago when like creators were like young handsome people sitting on the pretty people sitting on the edge of their beds saying hey guys the idea

that this adult historian was going to be able to find an audience like this on YouTube is preposterous and he's wildly successful. So like that's what excites

successful. So like that's what excites me about the platform. It's that that what is it niches niches rich like these really narrow subjects are now connecting with their audiences and when

the audience went from being YouTube this weird platform to being the world your narrow thing will reach its whole audience >> I think we've seen that the most recently at like conferences like a

VidCon where back in the day when there was like the height of beam when you would run through VidCon it was like madness when Logan ran through the fountain right there was like clarity on these are the celebrities of the platform. These are the most like the

platform. These are the most like the the biggest creators on the platform.

You go to VidCon now, you meet someone, they're like, "Oh, I'm a big fan." Oh,

cool. Like, what do you do? And you look them up. They have 19 million followers

them up. They have 19 million followers on Tik Tok. And there's a fragmentation of fame now, right? Where it's kind of like everybody's a creator. Everybody

has a thing. Everybody has an audience in some way, shape, or form. It's a

really interesting new phenomenon in this. Like probably in this room,

this. Like probably in this room, there's people with like 10 million subscribers, right? You have Jordan

subscribers, right? You have Jordan Matter back there. He's got 30 million subscribers. It's like you're you're

subscribers. It's like you're you're going to look through this room and be like, "Wow, everybody at this point has an audience," which is fascinating.

>> How many subscribers do does Nucier have?

>> You know, this [ __ ] guy, >> Messiah, >> he thinks that he's special. You show up at my talk and you're looking at your [ __ ] phone back there.

>> Okay, it's good to see you look great.

>> Um, I think it's incredible. Yeah,

>> I used to take issue with it because like when I was getting started on YouTube, YouTube handpicked who the creators were. Remember they put them on

creators were. Remember they put them on billboards and stuff >> and it felt then that YouTube really wanted to take a role in defining what it meant to be a creator and then

PewDiePie [ __ ] the whole thing.

He did destroyed the whole thing. And I

don't know this because I never spoke to them at a leadership level about this.

But what it seems like from afar is they made a deliberate decision to step back from that like let's not pick who the winners are. Let's not pick who defines

winners are. Let's not pick who defines this platform. Let's just make it the

this platform. Let's just make it the generic platform. And I remember when I

generic platform. And I remember when I felt that pull back in the late 2010s, I was almost disappointed. So I was like, "Oh, they don't care about creativity anymore. They don't." And what came out

anymore. They don't." And what came out of that, and this is largely Neil's leadership, and I think it's an incredible thing, is it just sort of leveled the playing field.

>> Yeah.

>> Because so long as they from the top are saying this is what creativity is or this is what it means to be a creator, it means everyone who's not that >> sees the platform is not for them.

>> But by making it this thing, you have this guy in England who makes weird videos about World War II [ __ ] >> and he's wildly successful. And it means like it it becomes this thing where like

there's a million lane. You don't have to fit in a lane. There's a million lanes. And if your lane doesn't exist,

lanes. And if your lane doesn't exist, just go ahead and start it.

>> That's cool.

>> And I think it's a it's a really virtuous, wonderful, wonderful thing.

>> Yeah.

>> Do you do you feel like seeing that YouTube now and video creation is is a place where you can be extremely niche and you can find your crowd, you can find your people, you can be validated

by it. Do you feel like if you were to

by it. Do you feel like if you were to really dig into YouTube again, you would see yourself digging into a niche, like you're a big runner, you'd be running a lot or do you feel like you there's something inside of you where if you are

to create and put effort into something, the goal is for as many people to see it? I know you don't care about views,

it? I know you don't care about views, but you're like you're someone who comes from a background of like major impact.

I like met with a running app yesterday and they're like wanted to work with me.

They're awesome. But I was like, I don't know that I have anything else to say about running.

>> Yeah, >> I think I'm out. Um, but no, for me it's it's we were just having this conversation about like I this is true for my HBO shows. This is true for the videos that I was making in, you know,

1999 on my iMac when I lived in a trailer park. Things when I see things

trailer park. Things when I see things that are interesting, especially things from my own life that are interesting, I want to share that interestingness. And that is at the core

interestingness. And that is at the core of my whole creative approach. It's why

like, you know, going all the way around the world figuratively when it comes to being a filmmaker, standing on the stage at the Can Film Festival, you know, like there's a point in my life where I feel like I could have gone

in any direction. I could have stayed with television. I could have stayed as

with television. I could have stayed as a commercial director. I could have been a big Hollywood filmmaker, but I just returned to this little thing. And you

know, like I'm an old man now and I've I've got financial security and I've got the confidence that comes with being old and I like I look in the mirror and say, "What's the one thing I want to do if I could do anything in the world?" And

it's like just want to sit alone and like make whatever interesting thing seems funny to me. The movie I've been working on for the last 10 days is that

my baby daughter taped up in the shower facing the shower. It's on the glass on the outside. It's just a list of eight

the outside. It's just a list of eight things that you have to do in the shower. Number one is sing. Number two

shower. Number one is sing. Number two

is eat the water. Number three is spit it out. Number four is have a disco.

it out. Number four is have a disco.

Number five is make a potion. Number six

is get the potion in your eyes because you're dumb. She wrote I didn't write

you're dumb. She wrote I didn't write that. Number seven is blow bubbles.

that. Number seven is blow bubbles.

Don't remember what number eight. I've

been reading that every day and I was like I have to make that video.

I have destroyed four Sony A7S3 cameras because filming in a shower is impossible. But like that is fascinating

impossible. But like that is fascinating to me and I'm like I want to make this movie >> and there's nothing that I've done in my career including standing on the stage at the Cam Film Festival that gets me

excited the way that little idea does.

>> So let's unpack that cuz that that idea you see something. Is it just that it's so like wonderful and wonderfully human that it's like almost or like because how do you discern like this one is enough for me to work on a video? This

one's just kind of cool. I'll share it with a friend. Like I feel like I have a million ideas during the day and to invest the time into making a video, especially with the scarcity that you're making them. What What's like the I I

making them. What What's like the I I don't know that I intellectualize it quite on that level. But I will say like the threshold is much higher now. Like

the beauty of doing the daily vlog and I feel like the 800 episodes 750 were about this idea is like I was there's a forcing agent.

So like I go to get a smoothie. I'm like

how do I make this interesting enough to warrant a video? And that was an incredible creative exercise because you had to find it wasn't when interestingness strikes me. It was when I I had to find it. I was always on the

search. If I came here today, I'd be

search. If I came here today, I'd be like, "Oh, [ __ ] Do I make a scene out of this?" And that's a really good

of this?" And that's a really good creative exercise. And I'm on the other

creative exercise. And I'm on the other side of that now. So, it's always just sort of looking around. But like I stared at that thing every day and I'm like this is funny. I can do something with this. And the irony of it is all

with this. And the irony of it is all the camera gear that I've soaked and doesn't don't work and I've flooded my apartment bathroom and I only that whole scene is going to be about 9 seconds of

like a five minute video cuz I made that video. I was like this isn't a movie.

video. I was like this isn't a movie.

What was I thinking? and then I have to figure out the movie and it's like the process is the reward.

>> Yeah.

>> So, I guess it's just like whatever is motivating enough to pick up the camera and get started that kind of initiates the process.

>> I think one of my favorite videos of yours that I always reference when it comes to turning something in like really understanding how storytelling works is uh when you had to rescue the drone. Do you remember that video?

drone. Do you remember that video?

>> Yeah. It's called my all time >> my all-time greatest >> because that was my all-time greatest movie ever >> cuz I looked at I I don't know if you changed the title at some point but I remember seeing that of like my all-time

greatest and I was like this is actually turning a situation that you got into into like an incredible story structure of problem solution triumph this like Harmon story circle.

>> This is the greatest three-act narrative ever. I remember editing that in my

ever. I remember editing that in my apartment and we had a baby and it was like 1:00 in the morning. I finished it and I'm like jumping in the chair. I was

like, "Candace, you got to see this."

And she watched it and she's like, "You lost your [ __ ] drone, Ky. Nothing

happens here." And she's completely right. This is such a nothing video.

right. This is such a nothing video.

>> Yeah.

>> But it was like finding the dramatic tension, >> right, >> of like a truly like that scene in like Argo when they finally like escaped Thran and like the planes taking off and they're like, "We're now serving

alcohol. we're over international waters

alcohol. we're over international waters and it's this moment of like they did it in elation like I felt like I achieved that in a video about nothing >> like so it was purely about you know

that idea of finding this story structure even though the subject matter was about something that was like not even incidental it was a it was such a nothing there was no substance to it whatsoever

>> I want to ask you uh about working with other people because we're about to speak with Max and Cleo and I know you've worked a lot with Max And historically you've said that you you are not good at managing people but

there are people that you collaborate with. And I'm wondering what does it

with. And I'm wondering what does it take for you to collaborate with with someone? It's not just that I don't like

someone? It's not just that I don't like work managing people. I don't work well with others period. Like when I moved back to New York from Los Angeles, my only goal was to have no employees. And

in my office like I mop the floors every week. I take out the trash. Like I have

week. I take out the trash. Like I have no one. And it's my happy place. like

no one. And it's my happy place. like

it's my favorite thing. Um, and at Beam, like at the height, we had 38 employees and the rule was I will shut this company down before I'll have a one-on-one meeting with any of our

employees.

And and the only reason why that company worked is because I had a partner, Matt Hackett, who is one of the best managers, one of the best people people I've ever met in my life. And we sort of found that at the very early. I was

like, look, here's the role I can play.

This is the role he can play. And it was a perfect marriage. Um, but creatively like I don't work well collaborating with others. Max Joseph is the only

with others. Max Joseph is the only person I work well collaborating with.

Like there are 1,200 videos on my YouTube channel. 1198 of them I edited.

YouTube channel. 1198 of them I edited.

The two best videos Max edited. Like

he's the only he's the only person that I work it.

>> Like a a great version of this is um Dan Mace.

>> Yeah. Dan Mace is a better filmmaker than me in every capacity. He's a better storyteller. He's a better narrative

storyteller. He's a better narrative filmmaker. He's he's a better technical

filmmaker. He's he's a better technical filmmaker. He's an incredible filmmaker.

filmmaker. He's an incredible filmmaker.

And I moved him from South Africa to New York because I couldn't make a video a day anymore. I was losing my mind. So,

day anymore. I was losing my mind. So,

I'd have somebody to help me. The first

two weeks I had him try to assist me on the edit. After two weeks, I was like,

the edit. After two weeks, I was like, "This is taking 10 times as long, and the videos are half as good. Like,

you're completely fired. the only thing you're going to do now is just hang out with me every day because he's awesome.

He's my best friend and he's great on camera. And like that reflects vividly

camera. And like that reflects vividly on how bad I am at collaborating because he's an incredibly capable filmmaker and an incredible collaborator. The weakness

was all here. Like I couldn't have had a better partner and I still failed miserably. I don't like it. I love being

miserably. I don't like it. I love being alone. Like just myself sitting there

alone. Like just myself sitting there staring and figuring it out. The only

exception to that is Max. Max is the only person I show my rough edits to.

And he's like, "Nah, bro. You [ __ ] this." I'm like, "Ah." And why I hate

this." I'm like, "Ah." And why I hate Max's feedback is that he's always right.

>> Yeah.

>> It's the worst kind of worst kind of credit.

>> So, we're we're entering this moment where it feels like like obviously when CNN bought Beam, I remember that. I

remember really remember that.

>> Yeah. You remember that? It's awesome. I

remember recognizing I was like, "Oh, that's really interesting." I from my perspective or my perception of it was, man, they really they really want Casey.

They really want to work with Casey.

>> Yeah. I didn't see it that way.

>> I am seeing kind of a moment in time that's happening again in the creator economy where I'm seeing Hollywood studios get really interested in us. I'm

seeing more traditional companies and brands get interested in creators because of what's happening on connected TVs. Like we are the the thing. We're

we're controlling attention. What what's

your advice for like we want to get involved with a brand like that or like big Hollywood studios or how do we navigate that?

>> I you know I have a simplistic take on it which is like what are they bringing to the table?

What are you bringing to the table?

>> Yeah.

>> You know I had this talk with with Jimmy about his Netflix show Amazon show.

>> Amazon show. Yeah.

>> Which was awesome by the way. And I

remember saying to him, I was like, "Look, this show, if it's the most successful show in the history of Amazon, will do less views than your worst performing video. What are they bringing

performing video. What are they bringing to the table?" And he had a fantastic answer. He was like, "A kind of

answer. He was like, "A kind of formality in my production I've never done before. They introduced me to a new

done before. They introduced me to a new audience. They forced me out of my

audience. They forced me out of my comfort zone." And I was like, "Those

comfort zone." And I was like, "Those are fantastic answers. You should do it." But if you're not asking yourself

it." But if you're not asking yourself that question or if you're like me because like I grew up in a like my mom has framed in her house. I was there this weekend in Connecticut. The TV

guide. No one here under 40 even knows what a TV guide is.

>> You know what a TV guide is? My mom has from when our HBO show came out 15 years ago. She cut it out of the TV guide. And

ago. She cut it out of the TV guide. And

for me, there's nothing I will do in life that will trump that success. That

show was seen by hundreds of people, >> right?

But to her that's this thing. So like I still have this I've shed it but like there's no greater thing than television. There's no bigger deal than

television. There's no bigger deal than being in a film festival. There's no you know there's nothing more important than having Netflix say we want to give you a show. And I think that's mostly ego.

show. And I think that's mostly ego.

Like I I don't think that's the case.

And if you're chasing that because of ego or because of validation I think it's it's it's it's most often a mistake.

>> Yeah. So, I think it's it's it's about really appreciating what you're providing and then what that partnership might be providing. And like the Mr. Beast example is a really really good one. Yeah.

one. Yeah.

>> It gave him an opportunity to do something he otherwise would not have had to do.

>> But um I think that we're going to see more of that as creators are consuming the attention in this economy, attention economy, then naturally whoever needs attention, they're going to start

courting those individuals. And in those moments, you just sort of ask like what do you what do you want from me? You

brought up CNN and I know we're running low on time, but like my biggest shortcoming in the CNN acquisition, which I can speak freely about because everyone involved at CNN when they bought my company is now gone. Um,

I was completely naive, and this sounds silly, but I was completely naive to the fact that they just wanted me >> because my first meeting with them is, and by the way, I was under a NDA for

like three years, but it's long dead. My

first meeting with them, they were like, "How can we work together?" And they purely meant, "How can we get you on CNN? How can we bring your audience?"

CNN? How can we bring your audience?"

And I was like, "We can't. There's

nothing you have to offer me." And then I stopped and I was like, "You know, your tech sucks though." I was like, "I make really good tech. Like we we make incredible video products. Um, we should

work together." And that's what started.

work together." And that's what started.

And there was, as silly as this sound, there wasn't really a conversation about what we were going to do together once they bought my technology company. And

it became super evident to me like in the weeks and months after. They were

great to work with. They do whatever you want. That what they wanted is they

want. That what they wanted is they wanted sort of what I did for my channel to do for and I was >> attention. They're in the business of

>> attention. They're in the business of attention.

>> Yeah. And it was kind of like a little bit of a let down for me. And I don't fault them. It was purely my own

fault them. It was purely my own short-sightedness that like and my own naive I thought that they wanted to build good tech together when really like >> no they wanted to see if there's a way for me to bring that audience to them.

And I think that's why it was such a tumultuous relationship.

>> Yeah. I think the the intentions were really misaligned and it started with me not saying what am I bringing to them and what are they bringing to me. I

didn't give a a clear perspective on that big sort of existential consideration.

>> So after this event a lot of these creators and >> so [ __ ] hot in here man.

>> It's hot in here.

>> It's getting steamy.

>> After this event creators are going to go home including us and and carry on with their creative journeys. you leave

us with like a guiding principle or just like a thought that everyone should take home with them.

>> No, >> you can tell everyone what you told us.

There's a great >> Yeah, actually that's true. There's a

great um Oscar Wild quote and it's that some things are some things are too important to be taken seriously and I think that that a I feel like from

afar a lot of that is sort of lost >> in YouTube and it's like because they can give you these metrics because you can make so much because some people make so much money.

>> Yeah. like people take it too seriously and in that pursuit of whatever it is, numbers, views, metrics. This magic like you there's not you can lose sight of

that and it's that magic has been the only thing that's ever turned me on in my whole career and being by being faithful to that magic. I've had all of this success and I think if ever I had

let go of that and just chased that other thing I think I would have >> I would have lost that. I don't think I would have found the success that I was able to find if I if I surrendered that loyalty to creativity. So do that. Is

that good?

>> That.

>> Okay.

What are these? What are these pingpong rockets everybody has?

>> Uh they double as fans, but they allow people to say if they like the talk or don't like the talk. And if we get too many reds, >> we've been getting people disagreeing with me. Are you blocking your son or

with me. Are you blocking your son or you didn't like what I had to say?

Oh, can you flip that around while you block the sun? Thank you.

>> Thank you.

>> So, I I just wanted to wrap here like I don't know if you remember this, but probably seven years ago, we met for the first time, us as fans of yours, at Colin's old high school. You were

speaking at uh the Hun School in in Princ. >> I remember vividly.

>> Okay. Okay.

>> We had about 30 seconds with you and walked you out the door and I'll never forget it. We walked up to you, camera

forget it. We walked up to you, camera cocked out as far as we could to vlog, right? Capture the moment on camera and

right? Capture the moment on camera and we're just like so over the moon to get a clip with you. We're like, Casey, can you give us any I don't even know actually what we said? I think we just told you everything we did.

>> Yeah. We killed almost all the time with everything we had done.

>> All the time with all the cool videos we made and asked you a question and then we get to the door. You look at us and you're like, "Listen, nobody's going to tell you. You're just going to have to

tell you. You're just going to have to go figure it out yourself." And you paused and you goes, "Congrats on all your success." And you walked out and

your success." And you walked out and Colin and I didn't talk to each other for the rest of the day. We were like, "Something was wrong about you."

>> We were like, "What did we just do?" And

we realized that we just didn't say one thing that we wanted to say to you, which is just thank you.

>> Yeah. Just

>> we really appreciate the inspiration you put into the world.

Like truly truly truly I I went to film school. I worked as an editor at Red

school. I worked as an editor at Red Studios and then I watched Make It Count and credit to you and Max. I was like, I'm going to do that.

>> So, I appreciate it.

>> I hope I wasn't a dick about it.

>> No, you were. No, you were kind about it. You were very gracious. You listened

it. You were very gracious. You listened

to us the whole time.

>> I loosely remember it. You guys just sort of assaulted me.

>> That's what I'm saying. I'm saying

sorry, which is why we felt bad and we want to apologize.

>> We've been holding on to that for seven years.

>> I know. I appreciate it. But to what did I love to see the footage to what degree I remember? But I think the reason why I

I remember? But I think the reason why I said congrats on all your success, which was me being condescending, that was a polite way of saying go [ __ ] yourself.

>> Go [ __ ] yourself. I understand.

>> By the way, it was heard loud and clear.

>> Was because like when you approach to approach someone >> I know >> you know what I'm saying.

>> No, just say it. Just say it. Just say

it.

>> Like I would have loved to engage with you guys.

>> I know.

>> It's like going on a date and just being like, "Look, sweetheart, I want to use this whole date to tell you about how [ __ ] great I am." You ready? Buckle

up, Dave. Like, it's not going to work out man.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I didn't know we were going to dig into that here, but here we are.

That's all right. I appreciate Listen, I've always wanted to talk to you about it, so I got >> I appreciate you acknowledging it. We

haven't forgotten it.

>> You've long forgotten it. Okay. We've

thought about it every day for seven years. So, we'll send you We'll send you

years. So, we'll send you We'll send you the clip. Please do. Should make a video

the clip. Please do. Should make a video about it. We got you about it.

about it. We got you about it.

>> Ladies and gentlemen, Casey and I that was so fun.