The Future of Web3: XBorg CEO Reveals AI Strategy, Token Buybacks and Market Outlook | Pow Wow 48

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>> Couldn't be more excited than having one of my favorite founder on the show, Xorg Lou. How's it going?

Lou. How's it going?

>> Hey, Sai Russ. Uh, thanks so much for having me. Uh, pleasure to come back

having me. Uh, pleasure to come back here. It's been a It's been a long

here. It's been a It's been a long while. It's been a long while a while

while. It's been a long while a while while where uh we have had many ups, we had few downs uh and we're in this weird moment. We're just talking before are we

moment. We're just talking before are we in a bare cycle if we're in a bull cycle? What's your feeling about this?

cycle? What's your feeling about this?

>> Yeah, it's um yeah, it's definitely a weird market where I think what's weird is not crypto going down, it's like equities going up and crypto not catching up and then and

trending down. So we see just spikes of

trending down. So we see just spikes of liquidity but just instant reverse. So

like quick burst of of of good price action and then immediate draw down. So

basically have I mean I view micro cycles now it's basically October, November, December last year were good and then large draw down from January to

April and then May to July August onwards was good and then you know it's this. So we have those mini bull runs

this. So we have those mini bull runs and mini bare runs. Uh but overall I think the trajectory as long as liquidity is up uh should be up for for

BTC and that will keep having those micro cycles where things outperform and then you take large showdowns on on coins.

>> Great. I definitely get you there. Um

how long have you been the founder of explor? It's been what almost four

explor? It's been what almost four years. Is that correct? It's been um

years. Is that correct? It's been um yeah well yeah almost four years now.

>> Time flat. I was just saying before the great thing with Louis that he looks even younger than four years ago where I feel like I look at some of my in my footage like >> you don't see the you don't see the

white hairs now. It's it's getting really bad.

>> This is AI. [laughter]

uh talk about AY and and the segue of here is uh you know the web 3 has been one of the most exciting topics uh we've

had different narratives this was defi uh we have had metaverse bit but in 2022 we had some gaming with axi infiniti uh do you believe that the narrative

today of gaming is still the big winning one within uh the uh web3 industry >> yeah I think it's been struggling a ton

mostly because it was whatever was hot in 2021 with sandbox YG so a ton of uh investment went into gaming and uh I

like to say that in uh and it's a it's a well-known saying but in in uh easy times you create weak people and uh and then weak people hard times and then

hard times strong people and so we basically founded founders that were not good in gaming in 2021 and that that led to people not executing well and then

that's this this is this ripple effect where well all tokens go down. Um, XPG

was actually the most performing gaming token in 2024, but like the rest really a big fan, but my test is on web three gaming is as bullish as it's ever been

because I think all games moving forward will be AI generated. And so the the modes of a game won't be the game itself, but will be the distribution.

And how do you solve for a cold start issue with a game? uh and how you gonna compete with two similar games is going to be a I think how much value you give

to your users and guess what I think tokens will play a big role in how value is distributed to uh to the players and I think >> very great

>> in the next five years big very big >> yeah I I couldn't agree more uh I think that's that's definitely a beautiful way the layer of of of of blockchain is

always to create that fair way to distribute value. I think so that is

distribute value. I think so that is that is definitely the fundamental quest. Um just for that by the way you

quest. Um just for that by the way you know export recently announced that evolution from gaming focus to AI infrastructure for personalized experience. Uh you know can you talk

experience. Uh you know can you talk about a little bit about that? Yeah,

it's been uh you know we in gaming so we we uh started with esports teams and so we basically are building tech with uh

esports teams and uh today we're announcing actually three uh new teams joining us um on our AMA still private

but that will make the the biggest tech provider in the whole esports industry in web and that's a big achievement But along the way, we've had many other

industry participants come and reach out to us to use our tech and that includes Fortune 500 companies to football clubs and many other industries. And we turn

out that I mean turned out that what people were interested in is is mostly data >> in the data of the fans.

>> They were interesting in the data of the fans in order to deliver personalized experiences.

And you know, we believe that the the way you look at the web today is going to drastically change and it's going to change as to who you are as a

customer and who you are as a fan of a given brand. And so what we allow is not

given brand. And so what we allow is not now not just doing fan apps but also retrieving the whole data set about your users and accordingly give personal

experiences to your users and to your fans. So concretely how it looks like is

fans. So concretely how it looks like is you Cyrus is the user and me Louie uh we have different tastes um we you know we

like certain things and I like things that you don't like etc. And so I think that the the user interface that you're going to have access to on the web on a given website is going to be different

than the one I'm going to be access um accessing.

And so we'll go from a a web that's the same for everyone to a web that's personalized. Whether you access this

personalized. Whether you access this through a URL or through LLM. So that's

the sort of new layer that we're adding to our tech stack is not only the fan but the ability to create those personalized experiences and that's you know typically powered by by AI.

>> That's very cool. I remember in the white paper uh of Swissborg early 2017 um Anthony was writing most of it. Uh

but I was bringing always these different theories and I said that the 21st century uh or 2020 go and and going on would be

all about customization, optimization, decentralization and eventually optimization and uh and and I call that the Kado framework.

That was on point. That was uh for for 2017. That was a

2017. That was a >> Yeah, sure. [laughter]

>> That was >> we had the the right the right uh way of doing I don't I don't know if we did all of that, but uh at least we tried to. Um

this uh this new uh I would say a refocus on building this A infrastructure. Was that coming with the

infrastructure. Was that coming with the fact because you're working with you know Cloud9, Team Liquidity, Evil Genius and all of these major esports organization. Was that really from I

organization. Was that really from I mean the conversations working with them that you went through this new way of of focusing? No, it's basically as as you

focusing? No, it's basically as as you dig deeper in the industry, you understand what your customers really want. And it's was not only just getting

want. And it's was not only just getting the fan app, but also just building experiences um you know according to to who you are as

a as a as a fan or user. So we really that they wanted to get personalized experiences and and that they would like tailor a journey for each user and we

basically have the whole text stack for this. And you know AI is a fancy way of

this. And you know AI is a fancy way of saying we we adding a new vertical or like a new offering to to our products

which is basically like um an agent that looks at the data that you have of your fans and that suggests content to display to you to to uh on your website

or wherever you display your information.

>> Very cool. And and now if we talk about market size um an opportunity there does this mean that uh you could maybe offer this to not only just to the e- gaming

industry or it could maybe offer this to other different industries or is still focused on esports.

>> When we when we've said okay we're adding this AI layer to what to our business it was really saying it's not just gaming but it's also other

industries. And with this, we're

industries. And with this, we're unlocking um like much bigger markets, probably like just 100x the size of what

we addressed today with esports. Um

don't want to brag about our progress on esports, but we we basically chat to all of the teams and >> No, for sure. You guys like literally everyone knows you and you've been working with the best as well.

>> Yeah. So, and then the ripple effect of this was a lot of >> other entities were reaching out to us um you know some of the biggest football

clubs and so it's not only this new offering on our product but it's also just we're targeting much bigger audiences.

>> Yeah.

>> And yeah, it's hard to to tell but like we're looking at 100x um in terms of market potential at least.

and to play the devil advocate uh you know AI has been like quite a buzz word uh for now let's say two two three years h how do you believe that export you

guys are going to tackle this in a slightly better way and be able to build momentum and make it happen >> well first is because we the edge that

we have is um like we basically have the like when when you're the fanat provider you have the whole data set and then if

we scale by niche like you have the esports we we basically have access to the most powerful data set as far as

fans are concerned in esports >> and that makes us very unique like we we have this distribution and and that no one really has um in the esports

industry and then second is something that's coming from our customers like customers requested this and then we build a product and then just they just

liked it and I think that AI just might be uh when we look at the capex investment might just be a big bubble but we we're just addressing a a

business need and I think this um well we can't go so wrong when we we basically feel a gap in the market.

>> Yeah, I I I understand what you're where you're going. Yeah, that makes a lot of

you're going. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I just there's one thing I just

sense. I just there's one thing I just heard uh Louie uh and this is on the spot and it is very exciting is all about this new fan base co-pilots.

>> Talk to us about what it is, how it's going to be awesome, how people are going to use it.

>> So, we built I mean the the core of what we do steel is is building FAPS for the world's biggest brands out there. And

it's a it's a big process. It's um it's a long process I would say. um sometimes

take takes a year to go to market. And

so we thought deeply about okay, how can we address the the need of um of a brand to do better engagements uh in a way

that's super easy and and fast. And uh

so basically what we build is this capilot where the main use case I like to to uh to use is you're a Twitch streamer. So, we're not talking about

streamer. So, we're not talking about just brands, but also just I mean a content creator is in theory brand, but yet let's say you're live on Twitch. Um,

and your business is entertaining your fans. Uh, and then basically people that

fans. Uh, and then basically people that follow you just create great content.

Um, but you don't have time to engage with your fans. So, like whilst you stream, you probably don't have time to post on Instagram stories or to post on Discord or to do polls on Twitch. And we

basically do all of that on on autopilot. So we parse through

autopilot. So we parse through everything that you say, everything that you see and everything you do on a Twitch stream. And then we do engagement

Twitch stream. And then we do engagement uh based on that. And that's just one use case, but we basically get rid of community managers and content. I mean,

everyone that like does engagement around you, we basically get rid of that and create that on a in an automated way. Um,

way. Um, >> okay.

>> So that's so based on what your your activity is doing, this could uh it's like an AI tool that enables to create posts and

create contents on your behalf uh for your fan base that wants to engage with you. Is that correct?

you. Is that correct?

>> Specifically tailored to community engagement. So, for example, in the case

engagement. So, for example, in the case of Xborg, it's it's hard and then probably for Swissborg as well, it's just hard to have a a bird's eye view of what your community is saying on Discord, on X.

>> Yeah.

>> Uh on YouTube and we basically plug all of these channels. So, we have access to all of that data >> and then we can tell, hey, your community feel frustrated about one point. Why don't you address this on a

point. Why don't you address this on a post or why don't you do this Discord post? So, it's

post? So, it's >> let's definitely use it for Swissborg.

That's a great one. So, it's the other way around. It's it's more on the

way around. It's it's more on the community side. How to

community side. How to >> create like this this filter out of because as we know there's a lot of noise that could come to community which some noise are beautiful, some noise are

very negative and useless. Uh but how do you create a better uh music to the ears of the content creators that like like that they could really engage and make sure that

>> they're answering >> what the fans want the best. the we

listen to market trends. We listen to So it's it's like filling up your content calendar based on real-time information.

So let's say you're an esports team.

Well, we get all of the esports stats from your team and we tell, hey, your team is losing at the moment. uh why

don't you post about this or like your team is winning you post about this or potentially you can get a also prediction market live

on okay will my team come back from this loss or will my make you know ton of use cases it's basically just what you wish your community manager

would be like having processing all of that data all at in real time and then saying hey you should post about this and we optimize the heck out of this

like knowing when to post um knowing what the market like how the market feels about this. So, it's a pretty exciting new app um that unlocks

a bigger market um that includes content creators and that goes live to 200 content creators this quarter. So,

pretty pretty exciting stuff.

So, in other words, does this mean that uh the co-pilot of Xorg has asked that you want to go bold eventually and that's why you're you're you're thinking

about going bold. Is that it? The the

co-pilot figured this out or is it yourself?

>> Wait, wait. Where did you get this from?

I don't want to go bold. I I just moved in with my girlfriend. Please,

[laughter] >> let's uh I don't know. There was this post that probably you did or someone did on X recently that it was just pictures of you bold. I thought it was

[ __ ] hilarious.

>> Uh that was it you who posted that? No.

>> Um was not me. I mean I'd be willing to do it. Uh

do it. Uh God probably.

>> No. If you just moved in your with your with your girlfriend right now, that's not a the best thing to do. Keep keep

some hair. Uh but a lot of CEOs that are bold are very good CEOs as we know. Uh

the co-pilots are you going to work you are going to have one as well like for Xorg as well and for web three projects or is it really more for uh for gaming studios?

>> I mean we internally I'm I'm telling the team hey web 3 is a is an easy market.

Uh let's go web two and let's do the the hard things. like

hard things. like >> they were they were saying hey content creators is a tough market and I'm like yeah let's let's just do it like let's let's do let's go

face that market because if we if we're good at this then web three we know that the go to market is super easy um reaching out to teams is is quick it's

also an industry that has money so you can monetize but >> so f first is content creators will we'll have a hard time we we give me hard times like we we have a bunch of

advisors and when they look at the product they just they're hammering it um because >> it's uh and then that's exactly the same

with the esports teams but they're they're very critical and then once we feel comfortable with content creators but that's a big big market in itself uh

then we'll roll this out to existing customers that we have uh in esports and and other industries and then eventually web 3, but it's going to be a self-service product. So

like anyone that will want to use it, but it just won't be our focus uh BD wise to focus on web three initially.

>> Okay, cool. Um

as we know uh as founders of of different companies that have uh web two web three presence and on the same time a token uh this is very challenging

[laughter] because you have literally two missions uh which is to create beautiful products revenue through those products and services but at the same time have a way

to reflect uh some of that growth into your token. As you know in crypto the

your token. As you know in crypto the fundamentals between a token price increase and the company's uh profitability or a way of building great

products and service are not always correlated. Um

correlated. Um we have seen as well last year the ascension of you know export going from 3 4 cents to all the way to 40 cents

which was insane. Uh best performing token.

uh what's your say right now? I know

there's really cool stuff uh that are being done in the background uh already live. Uh yeah, tell us a bit more about

live. Uh yeah, tell us a bit more about XBG.

Yeah, it's been um it's been a I think just a great 2024 along with the the market, but the truth is just

yeah the you're uh at the mercy of the market and just the appetite of investors and yeah we felt uh spec I mean specifically

in Q4 that the business quality was not being reflected on the token growth and that's why we said okay we're going to commit to 100% of our revenues to a token.

>> So you were talking before obviously the the XBG has been really the masterpiece of of of exports this way how you guys have you know crowdfunded the company and all that and you always want to give

back and something that is very new now which is extremely exciting is how you guys are essentially doing a very big amount of buybacks. Explain explain us a

bit uh why you're doing this and how you're doing it. Yeah. So, it's uh you know, we've we've got all these exciting news on the on the token and um I mean

on the business, sorry. And and we we discussed earlier that the alcoin market has just been up and down pretty aggressively. And um I think that over

aggressively. And um I think that over time the business quality and the token price should converge. And just the best way of um expressing this is is through

buybacks. And that also shows the

buybacks. And that also shows the commitment that we have towards token holders as the owners of the business is to say

okay you guys trust us to create a great business and we'll buy back the supply accordingly. Um and yeah that's

accordingly. Um and yeah that's something we wish to continue. And

again, I think that this is going to it's it's basically just the best way to capture value out of our ecosystem. Some

will say bad are inefficient and are we should more so reinvest in the business.

But I think timing wise um web three it has such a a crucial moment where you you basically want to when when

equities are doing well specifically you want to tell your holders that hey you know we're also worth looking into because at some point your P ratio will

make sense even to the traditional like uh Trefy investor.

>> Yeah. Uh I 100% agree. Look, there's no buyback. The project uh is just making

buyback. The project uh is just making revenues for uh not giving uh some of that juice back to your your fortunate

uh community, right? And uh it's just a fantastic way of building wealth, I think. So, on the long run, talking

think. So, on the long run, talking about revenues, uh I heard that revenues has been doing extremely well for you guys. There's a 150% increase uh from

guys. There's a 150% increase uh from this. Can you explain us like where the

this. Can you explain us like where the revenue is coming from right now with Xorg?

>> No. So we have uh but it's like we have those fan apps and they they pay us just a SAS business model where on a monthly

basis. So sometimes you have a setup fee

basis. So sometimes you have a setup fee but like otherwise it's just a monthly recurring revenues. So you also are able

recurring revenues. So you also are able to you know hedge your your burn rate through that um this money that keeps coming in and that's why we feel

comfortable that because we know like okay next quarter that much is going to come in so we feel comfortable in Q1 being aggressive on buybacks and that's also why looking into the future we know

okay we're confident that buybacks will come back and it's going to be something that we'll do on a recurring basis.

We've been very aggressive with buybacks. In basically two weeks, two

buybacks. In basically two weeks, two and a half weeks, we've bought back 440K of tokens in USD.

>> So, it's a pretty sizable amount. Um,

and yeah, so that's the focus at the moment is just the fan base. I mean, the fans and then Capa is going to be

another uh line of business. And yeah,

we'll share transparently on how this is uh this is going >> well on this fantastic portal. You know,

you see all the buybacks here. Uh we saw the gaming race, we said there's bridge, but there's as well uh a way to earn XPG. Uh there's different seasons that

XPG. Uh there's different seasons that happen all the time and you're able to essentially pledge your tokens and they get a yield as well. I believe we're

around the 13th uh the 12th or the set 13th I think.

uh season already and um and there's governance to this as well. You guys

vote on different things time to time if I'm not mistaken.

>> So it's it's a a way in which so the the way it works is you have multipliers and multipliers is essential proxy to how active you are in the ecosystem. So the

more value you give us the more value you'll get. Um and

you'll get. Um and yeah, so like the the buybacks that we do um that goes into the reward pool and

the the yield from the the app here is coming from the reward pool. It's

basically a real yield that you're getting um at a cost basically at no inflation because it's it's not new coins that we're putting into the market.

>> Sweet. again another very thoughtful way for for making token economies very solid uh which I know it's a great thing I think everyone understands that if you

if you buy back and you print much more then eventually that gets uh a little bit inflationist anyways so that doesn't really work um maybe the last point we

could talk about uh you know the narrative regarding AI agents and AI infrastructure and how you know you see

this going with Xorg yourself?

Yeah, we so yeah like we've suffered as a token from lack of marginal buyers like um realically okay we did great as a

gaming coin and that was like a 10x in 2024 but realistically like a 10x is not why we're here in crypto like you want

to have go much bigger than this and being just a gaming narrative token was like we took quite a hit because whenever I send that to a friend that's

like a whale it's like well gaming is not hot I don't want to invest in things that are not um doing doing well and so by building this new line of business in

AI that also allows us to tap into a much bigger market >> because money is chasing AI in equities today with the ton of of capex investment that we see and I think this

will return to crypto at some point and that you know AI I uh sort of AI le tokens will do well and

depending on how the copilot goes I'm confident that we can be one of the leading player in the AI space not not necessarily this quarter or even the

next but I think for next year goal would be to be be recognized as a as a major AI player in the in the web space.

>> Love it. Couldn't couldn't agree more.

Uh maybe to finish with this uh you know Xborg was obviously a gaming uh narrative now it's transforming to the AI narrative. How do you see your vision

AI narrative. How do you see your vision in the next two years? What's going to be the big thing that will make you know XPG uh you know great and explor?

Yeah, it's uh but what I tell the team is uh we we focus less on decentralization and and a lot on revenue generating projects and and just keep innovating,

keep trying to launch new products, see what works, what doesn't and face the hard things like whether we're on a bare market or not, I don't really know. But what can what I

can tell is the business is unfaced by the the market cycles because we we look at web two and and so vision for 2027 is is just keep doing what we're doing as

in focusing on web two distribution and focusing on revenue uh because this is what most businesses in crypto will uh will look like in the next two years.

>> 100%. You know, a lot of people look for the big swings and think that within a year everything is going to go perfectly, but to be honest, is how you build relentlessly and you put a lot of

effort into what you do that compounds compounds compounds and sometimes these incredible moments happen and you see

those massive wins. But uh it is yeah a lot of small small work detail focus on on understanding what's the future and how being taking a big part. Uh Louie

thank you so much for your time. This

was a a great one. I hope that everyone loves uh this episode with with Louie.

Of course in the comments please ask any question that you have. we'll be try able to answer them and uh maybe more things to be done next year as well with Xorg. Uh so looking forward to it. Thank

Xorg. Uh so looking forward to it. Thank

you D.

>> Cool. No, thanks Cyrus for having me.

That was good.

>> Take care.

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