What makes a good teacher?

for joining this livereamed community event on the teaching English Facebook page brought to you by the British Council. My name is Marcus James and today with my panel of guests, we're going to be exploring what makes a good teacher. So on the top right of your screen, you can see uh a familiar face to many of you who may be uh following one of our uh teacher training courses.

Uh Huma Ryza, how are you today? Hi Marcus, I'm fine, thank you. How are you doing today, Marcus?

I'm very well. Looking forward to our discussion on what makes a good teacher. Uh in the bottom left of your screen, uh we've got Ebru Weston. Uh hi Eru. How are you today? I'm all right, thank you Marcus. How are you? I'm very well too. And in the bottom right of your screen is

an beach. How are you today, An? I'm good, Marcus. How are you doing? I'm not too bad. Thank you for

an beach. How are you today, An? I'm good, Marcus. How are you doing? I'm not too bad. Thank you for asking. So what makes a good teacher? This is what we'd like to hear from you the followers

asking. So what makes a good teacher? This is what we'd like to hear from you the followers of teaching English right here today uh joining and following this discussion live on Facebook.

So do let us know in the chat according to you and your school and where you teach what makes a good teacher let's throw this to Huma this was a question that you suggested actually so I'm sure you have something to say on the on the matter. Okay. Well, I saw that coming my way, Marcus. All right. Well, uh, Marcus, I was thinking about this the other day, and thanks

Marcus. All right. Well, uh, Marcus, I was thinking about this the other day, and thanks to all the followers of the Teaching English page. I think they answered this very same question, uh, on the on the page, and they've exhausted all the positive adjectives that are there in the dictionary. So, I'm not going to go there. Um, I'm going to put this in a little bit of

the dictionary. So, I'm not going to go there. Um, I'm going to put this in a little bit of a context. So, I was thinking about what makes a good teacher in 2023. So I think it's someone who

a context. So, I was thinking about what makes a good teacher in 2023. So I think it's someone who uh does not conform to the traditional standards and is willing to break some rules. I don't mean in a chaotic way. I mean in a more uh refreshing, rejuvenating and in a more developing sense. And

I also thought that it's perhaps someone who is able to recognize and respond to the changing educational landscape which includes issues around inclusion, sustainable goals, multilingual teaching and of course AI. I mean we all know that genie is out of the lamp now.

It's not going to go back in anytime soon really. And so in my opinion, I think a teacher in 2023, a good language teacher in 2023, someone who's able to perhaps look beyond teaching those grammar and pronunciation rules and can help her students become global citizens through more meaningful,

inclusive, and empathetic communication. Excellent. I love that response. Very uh

comprehensive. Um, Ebru uh obviously you you three um Ebru Hummer and an you wrote recently an article for the British Council Voices uh magazine and I can see that um although you had a lot of uh teaching experience there's a a lovely part of your uh article where you said you had to rewrite

uh your CV. So if you're you're a good teacher, why do you need to sort of adapt your CV or resume for different schools? Why did you have to do that?

Um well, there are kind of two two reasons. One is the reason um that I'm actually well, I don't know how to put this, but let me let me give the reasons. First of all, when I first started um

as a teacher, the reason I had to adapt um who I was and my background um was because the request for native speaker teachers in the country I was looking for a job. Um so I had to make it kind of

almost excuse the fact that I was from Turkey. um but make up for it by just talking about all sorts of other things including you know my experience um how long I've lived in England and the the

um kind of amount of travel I did and the places I worked in um and just kind of that that was the kind of challenging period but since that um environment I moved on to kind of working in places where they didn't request native teachers. Um, and I mean that's kind of connected to your

first question a little bit as well, Marcus. What I'm going to um say the reason I now adapt it is because of the kind of qualities that schools and um and you know language education organizations

um ask for. So, I adapt it to make sure that I'm kind of fitting in with what they're asking for, but not even applying for any jobs where I see the term native speaker anymore either. Okay. Well,

thank you for uh sharing that with us. Uh we do have a global audience following us right now. So,

I'd like to say a quick hi uh to Luke from Poland, uh Chandu from Sri Lanka, Mamuna in Pakistan, um Siman in Iraq, Kurdistan, uh Nana in Egypt, Gigi in Algeria, um Riyad in Algeria as well,

and Miran from Syria. lots and lots of teachers uh watching um sort of touched on um this idea of being a language teacher. So I think for a lot of people they do still have these sort of antiquated

uh ideas that you have to come from a country and be born in that country and possess a passport from that country in order to be a good teacher of the language of that country. Uh I think Huma and

um Ebru said that they have experienced this at some point. And is is this still true today? Is it

um fair in terms of recruiting practice or is it practical from a language perspective to only have people uh teaching it who uh come from that country where the language is spoken? Sorry

that's a very weighted question an um do apologize if it's too much but do let us know what are your thoughts um I think despite the developments and in understanding about English language and global Englishes world Englishes there is still a lot of prejudice um the native label is often used

as a gatekeeper to recruitment um but it's also the the kind of native language your passport thought it's it's linked to what you look like, what you sound like, your class, your language, your ethnicity. So, there's a lot of prejudice still around it. Um, I don't think I don't think

your ethnicity. So, there's a lot of prejudice still around it. Um, I don't think I don't think it's a helpful label. I would traditionally be labeled as a native speaker, but I would never be comfortable with labeling myself as a native speaker. Although I've worked like a brew and hum lots of different contexts and environments where I get I've got jobs because I've been a

native speaker. Um I speak a a variety of English which would be classed as a non-prestige variety.

native speaker. Um I speak a a variety of English which would be classed as a non-prestige variety.

So I come from the northeast of England. So my my local dialect is Jordi. And I feel that even as a native speaker, I've still experienced through my career the kind of corrections from um speakers of speakers of a more standard variety of English, criticism, mockery of

how I speak or microaggressions. So, no, I don't think it's a useful label. I think that kind of binary choice between are you a native speaker, are you a non-native speaker is really divisive within our ELT community and it's a it's a your terms and that kind of binary term is something

that I think we should move on from in ELT. Um, now there is a comment here from have to excuse my Arabic reading who correct me if I'm wrong. Uh, Mudiran. Yes. Mudan. Oh yes. Yes. You got it.

Five five years in Saudi Arabia. Nice to meet has helped Marcus. It has helped. It has helped. Uh so

Maduran's uh comment here sort of go back to our sort of question about what makes a good teacher though. Um the comment here says mastering that native accent it's a good goal. Now,

though. Um the comment here says mastering that native accent it's a good goal. Now,

I only brought this up because we were sort of talk sort of we've already started this discussion on sort of being um a a speaker who sounds like uh one of the English-speaking countries. Um let's

uh we'll throw this to Huma. Um okay, I'd love to answer that, Marcus. Oh, please do. Uh well uh Marcus this is a very tricky question a difficult question a question that I have I asked myself a few times when I started teaching and uh frankly like I and an have said I think a good teacher

can come from anywhere in the world and can speak any first language so it doesn't matter even if there's an influence you know of your own language over your uh English pronunciation because I think language is an important part of my identity and I don't want to sound like anybody else. I want to sound like me and that's what makes me unique. But I know that there are there are a lot of students

and I have known colleagues to try to master the native accent to fit in and unfortunately I think uh that's something that can affect people in many ways. Like I said, language is an important part of identity and today in 2023 I think all of us, you know, have accents that's a

mishmash of various varieties. For example, when I was growing up, I learned British English, but because of my continued exposure to American media and uh entertainment, I think I've got a mix of uh some American, you know, accent or or language usage, you know, in my English. And then there's a

flavor of Indianness to it, too. So, I don't know what accent do I really have today. But I think as long as people can understand me, I think that's okay. So I think all of us today as teachers and people in ELT we need to pause and ask ourselves that if we listen to something is it unacceptable

or unfamiliar because I think everyone's voice needs to be valued regardless of how it differs from our own. Absolutely. As uh Perroy says I think we should teach for understandable

uh pronunciation. Um, now I've got a a question here from uh Lita Kaldas. Um, so perhaps

uh pronunciation. Um, now I've got a a question here from uh Lita Kaldas. Um, so perhaps uh everyone and um might be able to chip in here. Uh what do you do when you don't know the meaning of some words students ask? I sometimes don't know words in my own language. So we're, you know,

from this perspective of being an English language teacher, um who happens to maybe not know and it's happened to us all. I don't care whether we're where we're from. I've had to look up words. Um

not sure of the meaning of them. Sometimes I don't know every word uh in the dictionary. Um is this necessarily connected to being from a country that speaks uh the language that you're teaching? How

do you deal with this? Um Ebru. Yeah. Um I I'll I'll just give you an example from when I first started teaching. Um and if you read the article we wrote, there was an example of it there. And I

started teaching. Um and if you read the article we wrote, there was an example of it there. And I

had to pretend I was half British um on the basis of the request from the school um I was working for. Um and it was already very uncomfortable having to lie to my students. And then when they

for. Um and it was already very uncomfortable having to lie to my students. And then when they asked for words that I didn't know the meaning of, I made the massive mistake of trying to kind of work it out from the context and explain it to them. But very quickly I realized that wasn't going to get me anywhere. And I learned to say, I don't know. Let's check it together.

And I think we've come a very long way since then as well as native figurism is losing its weight.

Um therefore the students our students know um you know where we are from and we don't have to pretend where we're from and we already show our expertise and professionalism in our teaching and we are allowed and as Marcus said even if you're the native speaker of the language not everybody

knows all the words and I think we need to learn to say let's look at it together and I don't know exactly Um Luke here mentioned exactly just the same. I just admit I don't know something and we check it together uh in the dictionary. After all, we're all humans and it's not just that.

Obviously, we're modeling uh these problem-solving behaviors that we want our learners to, you know, become more independent learners, don't we? Okay. Excellent. Now, you just touched on um this article that uh you wrote for the British Council Voices magazine. Um and you you kind of

wrote the bulk uh of it. Uh what was the article about and what was the inspiration really behind writing it? Um I I didn't write the bulk of it. It was a very collaborative a collaborative

writing it? Um I I didn't write the bulk of it. It was a very collaborative a collaborative experience and I've really enjoyed working with my colleagues from an airbrew. Um I think it it's a long time since British Council looked at these issues. We looked back at what British Council

published before on native speakers and native speakerism. I think about 10 years ago there was a lot of discussion around this topic but there had been a long gap in in in our engagement in this topic through articles. So it was a it seemed like a good time to write something about it given

how society progresses, language progresses. Um yeah, so that's that's really the inspiration for it. And I think our work in in British Council is is moving to a place where we where where maybe in

it. And I think our work in in British Council is is moving to a place where we where where maybe in the past we we we recruited like a lot of teaching centers do. We we worked on a recruitment model where where native speakers were recruited. We've we've moved um we've moved forward and

beyond that a little bit. And in the area that I work in, I work in um English in a multilingual world. So English in multilingual contexts. A lot of the global Englishes, world Englishes,

world. So English in multilingual contexts. A lot of the global Englishes, world Englishes, native speaker arguments are very very relevant for the work that we do in this area which is largely around English as a language of learning and teaching and English in multilingual contexts

where native speaker varieties and norms maybe have um have less have less importance. Excellent.

I just going to bring uh Eru into this one. Um Charmaine comments uh very well said uh no to the labeling of sort of native and non-native and let's practice inclusivity not only for our students but for teachers as well. Well, I think we we we have spent quite a long probably a longer

time uh preaching this sort of inclusiveness among our learners but from the institution side we have been a bit slow to catch up with um sort of following our own words uh so to speak. So,

how can um I guess we we sort of bring these recruitment policies and and institutional practices up to the same level of um inclusion and diversity that we expect from our learners.

I I think you're you're yeah you know totally right about how much um kind of emphasis we've put on um inclusion of our students inclusivity um for our students but the teachers always got kind of not forgotten but you know there hasn't been as much emphasis on that definitely and there like

I mean from my experience there has been a lot of work internally within the British Council on that um like you know We made sure that we are not using native speakerism in our language in our

discussions in our promotions and we are not um kind of exclusively inviting applications from native teachers as an mentioned that happened years ago but we've moved a very long way um since then and there has been a lot of kind of internal activities including doing some training to

um kind of increase awareness and understanding of the importance of diversity in our teaching teams um in the teaching center context for example and this has included not only the teachers themselves

and managers it also included um marketing colleagues customer service colleagues and and um you know HR colleagues as well because it's really important that we are all speaking the same language and we all have the same beliefs and values when it comes to um kind of being inclusive

about our teachers as well and and being proud of our diversity. I think that's one of the things we've done quite well. Um, you know, just making sure that we're communicating um how important the

diversity is and that communicating that we have teachers for example from diverse backgrounds.

It's not just native teachers. And by writing articles like this and getting into discussions about native speakers and just kind of stating where we are and keeping the conversation going.

I think it's really important to have these discussions in you know within an organization within a school and just making sure that actually we're doing what we're talking about as well not it's not left as just to talk. Excellent. Uh thank you so much for that. Uh again very good

sort of comprehensive uh answer there. Um a few comments coming in. Um so we chatting about just now and there seems to be quite a lot of focus on uh pronunciation and and kind of checking uh the

meaning. Um so uh another comment here from uh Per Roy who says if there is an unknown word we should

meaning. Um so uh another comment here from uh Per Roy who says if there is an unknown word we should take um do preparation before teaching them. Yeah, it's part of uh lesson planning uh isn't it? Um

a few other comments. Uh leader says, "Great. I love the suggestion of let's check it together."

You makes it more collaborative, doesn't it? Um um this from Charmaine. Uh we all make mistakes and it's essential to remind our students it's okay to make mistakes and we learn and grow together.

So again, you know, it's about that um the classroom and being, you know, as a collaboration of learner and teacher um exploring uh topics and and language together. Um lots and lots fantastic

uh suggestions. Now, there was one here. I'm just trying to find it. Um, that touched on uh this

uh suggestions. Now, there was one here. I'm just trying to find it. Um, that touched on uh this idea of accent and you know, world Englishes. So, there are lots and lots of um English uh ways of

pronouncing um an you know, you mentioned you're from the uh the northeast and that you have a uh what is it? Jordi accent. Jordi would be native to which city would be Newcastle. Um, yeah,

my accent's pitmatic pitmatic Jordi. So, it's from the Durham Co fields officially. Okay. See, my my accent is quite interesting because you might not be able to place it geographically because I've I've kind of worked in so many different parts of the world with uh colleagues from um many many parts of the world as well and students from uh probably every other every country around the

world at some point. Um so I did have a sort of a Welsh South Welsh accent at one point, but that's kind of been uh neutralized over time. um to the panel. Um in terms of the English that we would sort of use as a model, let's say, you know, we got the standard American English,

the standard British uh English, the the varieties within those, Australian, South African, Jamaican, we could mention every uh country that uses the English language. Is it important to focus on one or expose learners to a range of different uh world Englishes? Um to the panel. Can I

answer that Marcus? I had a feeling you might and an are okay. Can I take that? Go for it. I

think I I think that's a very good question Marcus because if you see nearly 75%age of the speakers of English are not native which means that there are so many world Englishes today. It's not just for one variety. So I see the standard English that most teachers or organizations or course book

materials refer to as just one of those varieties. So it cannot be automatically be uh used as you know the pedagogical target or reference. I think it depends on the context. So if the teacher is teaching in a context where it's good to run with the local variety of English then why not? But if

I'm going to teach students who have to engage in communication where they have to work with people uh for business and academia across regional borders or national borders then I would automatically assume that I may have to teach them what I would call it as the international English which is more English as a lingua franker or in other words intelligible English.

So communication is successful. So I don't think there's one variety of English that we can really fall back on today. It depends on the context, the learners's needs, and what you're really working with in the classroom. I would completely agree, Humma. I think we need to raise awareness with

students that there are a lot of varieties of English. I think sometimes sometimes the focus is just on UK or US English which is not really appropriate in a globalized world where we're working with where English is a common language, a shared language along among many different people used for communication. And I completely agree with your points about intelligibility. It's about

intelligibility and can can you be understood? Can you can you understand the speaker who's speaking to you? Thank you. Um, and I've just brought up this comment from um, like when we talk about,

to you? Thank you. Um, and I've just brought up this comment from um, like when we talk about, you know, British English, what are we really talking about, you know, and you gave the example um, from yourself. I just Googled it and just thought see if I can um, get how many different accents there are in England. Um, there isn't a definitive number,

but I think I've got a list of kind of, you know, vague list of 17 or 18 different accents.

what are we referring to when we say British English as well. So I think it's you know I agree with both of you it's really important that you know you're able to you know explain yourself and be understood you know with your pronunciation and also the same be able to understand different

accents from different parts of the world. We're all very mobile these days and we will be traveling or online discussing things or having meetings with people from all over the world. So

we should be able to understand all accents. So I I agree they need you know students should be exposed to different accents not just one. We don't we don't have just one one accent for other person. You know, your accent, you use it to reflect your personality, your identity. Your

other person. You know, your accent, you use it to reflect your personality, your identity. Your

accent changes depending on who you're talking to. You flex to that situation. It's accents and ways of speaking are very flexible. And I think we need to acknowledge that when we're when we're teaching English. I absolutely love that. It's so true. I mean, you know, I'm here now with my with

teaching English. I absolutely love that. It's so true. I mean, you know, I'm here now with my with my f with my family and my accent sort of comes in waves. Um now you touched on that idea of you know exposure um to learners of of you know different accents but um what Monthan shares here I think

is quite a a widely held belief that the teacher is the correct model uh for students the teacher should know and prepare how to pronounce before uh teaching those learners. Um how would you respond to that? It's a difficult, you know, we do those drills, don't we? You know, repeat after me. Um,

to that? It's a difficult, you know, we do those drills, don't we? You know, repeat after me. Um,

other teachers may not be less may be a bit less confident and may rely on sort of audio recordings as a model uh for pronunciation. But what what what should we be using as a model? The panel

um Marcus. Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. Please go. No, please go. Please go ahead.

Okay. So, Marcus, I was going to say, well, it just depends, you know, I I for example, uh, very frankly, when if I look at my classroom, I don't necessarily use any model. I don't go to any dictionary or any website and play any model for my students. I just say it the way I say it and I think they understand me well. And they say it with in a way they want to say it using

their own regional language influence over their English pronunciation. And if I understand it, okay, then I think communication has been successful. So in my classroom, I don't really go back to any specific variety or model. I just say it the way I say it.

I think the it's not about a model, it's about models. Yes. So we have so many models in the classroom. If you say everybody says it in a different way, but yes, I do have students. Yes. But I do have students who always come to me, you know, and they ask me, "Oh, can you teach me British accent and American?" I tell them, "No,

I'm not equipped to teach you any accent really. So, I'm sorry. I I really can't." You know, it's also a little bit artificial, unnatural, you know, to let go of your natural accent when you learn a language. I think that's something again that teachers and students must become more aware of that you don't have to learn a global language like English at the cost of losing your

own language identity. So they all can you know walk together so you don't have to lose one to learn another one. That's interesting. it that um uh Rashmi actually says here we only teach British spellings and accent and we're not allowed to use American and pronunciation. Now this is

this comes down to sort of maybe a schoolwide policy or maybe something from the exam board.

Um I think I know the answer to this already but I mean is this uh applicable in 2023 an um for me it illustrates exactly what you've just said the fact that language policy in school national language policies assessments and the way we we we assess students that whole that the

whole the whole sector needs to really catch up in terms of um modern life life in the 21st century.

Absolutely. And there's another lovely comment, a little bit big, so it's kind of buried. Um,

poor Anne at the bottom. Um, so I'll read it quickly. Asma says, "When I learned Portuguese, we learned mostly European Portuguese, but we're exposed to Brazilian Portuguese as well, so could identify the differences. And the same should apply to teaching and learning English or any

language which has variations. So I think that um sums up what we were talking about you know having um there's no one single model uh and you are going to be collaborating and and communicating with people um who use different varieties of any language. So of course uh you know we

need to be able to communicate with them. So we need to be aware of these um differences but not necessarily you know adopting them um ourselves. Okay, great. I'm just uh quickly scanning uh the comments. I see the time has pretty much um run out unfortunately. Um Oh yeah. Oh yeah,

comments. I see the time has pretty much um run out unfortunately. Um Oh yeah. Oh yeah,

I just realized that it was in the corner as I was looking for uh further comments. But anyway,

teachers uh do keep the conversation going. We're really keen and uh interested in your experiences of language teaching and the different uh models that you use in your classroom, the varieties that you expose uh your learners to. Um if you'd like to hear more from uh Hummer, An and uh Ebru,

you can check out their Voices magazine article on the British Council uh website. Uh Louise,

who is busy moderating in the comments, will post a link to that. There's also a link in the description of this video. But anyway, thank you very much uh an Ebru and Huma for joining uh the panel for this important uh discussion. I can see a lot of teachers have appreciated

uh your efforts and the ideas that you've been um sharing with us today. Thank you Marcus and thank you everybody for coming today. Okay. So, thank you every Thank you ane by you. Bye. Bye.

by you. Bye. Bye.