Why Chinese EVs Are Crushing Legacy Brands: An American Insider Spills All | Wheelsboy (车轮哥)

We're going to do a little exploration today. You're just here to have some

today. You're just here to have some fun.

>> That's my favorite kind of thing to do.

>> Pep talking.

>> Are you pept talking to someone that has like [ __ ] I don't know 500,000 subscribers. Like we're trying to tell a

subscribers. Like we're trying to tell a pro to do his job.

>> It's like come on, Howie.

>> I think it's overall closer to 2 million, but it's okay.

>> There you go. There we go.

>> Drops the bomb.

>> That's a flex.

>> No, I think it's probably more like a million.

>> Measly mill. in the middle.

>> Yeah.

>> If you if you add all the platforms, >> he's insulted. I'm like half a mill. No.

5,000. 500.

>> You literally gave you like the dirtiest leg. He's like, I'm going to kill you.

leg. He's like, I'm going to kill you.

>> Smash that bottle over my head.

>> I worked so hard. I said I stood in so many hot parking lots for so many hours >> to get to where I am. I must be acknowledged.

>> Hey, Ethan. Cheers, man. Welcome to the show.

>> Thank you very much, gentlemen. I

appreciate the invitation.

>> Cheers.

Make sure you speak closer into the mic.

You can just move them back, too.

>> Hey, by the way, I've I'm curious because I see other people and they don't have to speak straight into the mic. What's up with our mics?

mic. What's up with our mics?

>> Well, no, because they have the whole thing turned up, but it's usually like they have a really better much better sound treatment than we do in our episodes and they have less people. So,

what happens is if he if we're all talking close and he's talking far away, I have to turn his gain up and then which means you hear all that background even more. So, it's just much cleaner

even more. So, it's just much cleaner when you talk closer into the mic.

>> I real I figured there was a reason.

That's good. Thanks for explaining.

>> Yeah. Know, I appreciate it, too. As as

I'm listening to 800 million hours of podcasts and doing only my second podcast, it's nice to actually be able to actively participate.

Now, I'm assuming that these these these covers just like a KTV place, these get changed all the time. So, I'm not like I'm not kissing King Quesy right now.

>> Although, I can maybe arrange that if you want.

>> He's a handsome guy. I follow him on Instagram now. I'm a big fan. He's very

Instagram now. I'm a big fan. He's very

funny.

>> Well, Brian was using that one last week, right? Did we clean it?

week, right? Did we clean it?

>> Yeah. No, we we we we freze them. Like I

take them off and I freze them and stuff.

>> Uh fun fact, Freze is uh I don't think does kill any bacteria. It just makes >> fun fact. It says it says on the bottle 99% germs. >> It does. Okay. Okay. I'm using the old stuff. I'm used to the stuff from 10

stuff. I'm used to the stuff from 10 years ago that >> Oh, it's just for the odor, right?

>> It's just the odor. Yeah. I thought you were basically saying like, "No, no, no.

It's fine. Germs don't exist if you cover them up.

No, go on. We We cut you off. Sorry.

>> It's okay. So, um I was just saying that so I was in Riad uh in Saudi Arabia for a video that I was invited by a Chinese media to to be in basically to co-host where we were talking about a Chinese

car. Um which is interesting because I

car. Um which is interesting because I mean it was my first time in the Middle East and one of the things that that struck me and obviously this is one of the things I'm going to focus on considering what I do is the fact that

there were a lot of Chinese cars there.

surprisingly amount I would say um based on zero scientific evidence just eyeballing it around I mean 15 20% of the cars on the road were from Chinese brands >> just like driving on the street

>> just like driving on the street um >> what brands did you see >> so I'm told by people there that there are 15 brands in total but the ones that I saw the most were Jili Cherry Chongan

>> really >> yes so there wasn't um the ones that you would expect >> I thought >> you would have thought I told you I should have drank that whiskey. Now I'm

going to have a whiskey burp. So

anyways, um, no, I did not see any BYDs.

Now I I think one of the reasons for that is that BYD when it comes to exporting their vehicles is mostly focused on uh pure electric models.

Europe, for example, they're mostly focused on pure EV models. And can I tell you what I did not see at almost at all in person? I think I only saw one uh was an electric car. It was a pure electric car.

>> Really? It's not electric there?

>> No. So, it's all hybrids.

>> I like how he's like really one of the most biggest exporters of uh you know oil in the world that doesn't have a ton of electrical. No. Um they they did not.

of electrical. No. Um they they did not.

Now, what's another interesting aspect of that is that Saudi Arabia, the the sovereign wealth fund there is also a major investor in Lucid, the American electric car company. So, the only

electric cars, again, I don't believe I saw personally any now that I think about it. It was my my business partner,

about it. It was my my business partner, my my co-orker that went with me there.

He saw two Lucids. One was a cop car, uh, like a black and white, which looked really cool, and another was actually a like an Uber that his wife actually got from the hotel to wherever she was

going. Um, and so apart from that, no no

going. Um, and so apart from that, no no electric vehicles on the streets.

>> Wow.

>> You know, which is surprising. Well,

sorry, let me phrase that. It's not

surprising for the reason that I just stated to you, but it is a little surprising considering the way that the Saudi like the the government the the

kingdom is presenting itself as being >> green and modernization and all these things. I kind of would have expected

things. I kind of would have expected them to be >> putting enough incentives out there to encourage people to to buy electric cars like China.

>> The ones that you mentioned like J like what she like they are hybrid or full gas. the ones that I saw, I think the

gas. the ones that I saw, I think the only one that I saw there might have been one that was a light hybrid, not a not a plug-in hybrid. So, uh, really quickly, I don't know if how many people

on this on the four microphones here are automotive enthusiasts or anything, but basically a a light hybrid is like a like a Prius, uh, an original Prius, and then a plug-in hybrid is one that you

can plug it in, right? And it can have a pure electric range where the internal combustion engine up front doesn't drive the wheels. It's just the electric motor

the wheels. It's just the electric motor or motors. And then of course you have

or motors. And then of course you have an EREV or REV which is an extended range electric vehicle wherein the small displacement uh engine up front is

literally just a generator. It only

makes electricity for the motors and to charge the battery. So of those three that I just mentioned, the only one that I saw was maybe one or two like light

hybrids. So the last one is like the

hybrids. So the last one is like the real one real electric like Tesla.

>> No. So Tesla's a different one.

>> Teslas have zero internal combustion engine. So the step past an er, right?

engine. So the step past an er, right?

Is an EV is an electric vehicle.

>> So more like Leang, right?

>> Correct.

>> So why what's the like why do people buy that versus like a pure EV?

>> Well, the answer is simple because if you have an extended range electric vehicle, its range is over a thousand kilometers. And so a pure EV at this

kilometers. And so a pure EV at this point realistically the best solution we have for making really impressive ranges on electric vehicles is well let's make the battery bigger

>> and that is an incredible it's a it's a resource inensive solution obviously especially when you consider the fact that you need to recycle these things at some point hopefully um and it's also

very expensive so it's not a good solution for the consumer er if you are if you have charging available at your office or at your home. Then you

can basically apart from having to go really long distances like a long road trip, which when you need to do that, you can just fill it with gas. Um you

can go an electric range of let's say your realistic range is about 150 or 175 km. Most people could use that for a few

km. Most people could use that for a few days at least just to get to and from work and run errands. And if you have charging available at home or at work, which in China where they offer you the

opportunity to install a slow charger at your home, then you never have to fill it up almost. I mean, I have friends who have Lee Auto models who have gone 6

months without ever put gas in the car.

So, I understand there are people that feel as though you end up with a bad electric car and a bad gas car cuz it's a bad electric car cuz there's not a lot of pure electric range. And it's a bad gas car because when you're not using

the battery, you're just lugging a heavy battery around.

>> But and I'm I'm >> I understand that point of view, but I also feel like you have to come to the consumer.

>> You have to make a have a solution. You

you can't just beat them over the head with the fact that no, you're wrong.

You're wrong. You're wrong. You're

wrong. You don't need 1,000 km of range.

You don't need it. And statistically

speaking, that's correct. You do not need to have a electric car with 700 km of realistic range before it becomes a practical solution for your lifestyle.

But you have to accept that there's an emotional purchase when you buy a vehicle. And so you need to come to them

vehicle. And so you need to come to them and say, "Okay, you're worried about range. Awesome. You can just fill this

range. Awesome. You can just fill this thing with gas and go as far as you need to go. Just go to the next gas station."

to go. Just go to the next gas station."

But for your daily commuting, you get the experience of driving an electric car and you get the savings of driving an electric car um without having to worry about that long trip. What I will

tell you is the BYD, which is the largest producer of electric vehicles.

We just did a review on my channel, the the Chin L, which received a ton of attention because BYD made a lot of claims about the DMI or dual mode intelligent PHEV system. It was the

fifth generation and they said this car can go over 2,000 km >> without charging on one charge and one tank of gas, right?

>> And yes, the the faces you're making there. I know. And

there. I know. And

>> we decided, hey, um we're going to see if we can do this. Now, what we actually achieved, I'm going to tell you my number and I'm going to tell you why I still think it can actually do 2,000.

Ooh, >> we got we filled it with gas when it probably had depending on the range about 80 km

of range left and we made it about 1350 km 1,350 km. So, not 2,000 km, but still that is an average I have to think back

53 miles per gallon or something like that on the highway. Now, the reason I think it is capable of 2,000 km is one, multiple media have gotten over 2,000

km. One media got 2,43

km. One media got 2,43 km. Yes. Yes. And I've watched their

km. Yes. Yes. And I've watched their video. I have no evidence to suggest

video. I have no evidence to suggest that they cheated or that they lied or they filled the tank secretly or anything. I think that their conditions

anything. I think that their conditions and just for more context, one media also got 2200.

one got 1,800,700.

Um, >> so really I think it seems like it depends on how you drive, the road conditions, the weather, the the the you know the temperature. They all come in right as factors. How much AC you're

blasting in the car maybe? I don't

>> how many people you're carrying?

150%. And so I would say that in our case, we had a lot of factors that were going to inhibit that.

>> You're like driving like a Ferrari.

That's why you only did 130.

>> Extremely aggressive. I did 170 the entire time.

>> You had the music all the way up.

We had like 30 people packed like a clown car.

>> People in the trunk.

>> He was dragging a trailer.

>> I was also Yes. I was also pulling a second chel behind us. Um so we had rain, we had elevation changes. We had

obviously, you know, it was pretty darn hot. Uh we had three people in the car.

hot. Uh we had three people in the car.

We also kept the air the the the auto the air conditioning on auto and then we also had set at like 22 degrees uh cuz it was again hot outside. Uh, and

listen, I'm willing to do a lot for my subscribers to give them the best possible video, but I am not going to sweat my ass off for 3 days of driving

just so that I can maybe get closer to 2,000 km. Uh, it's also not realistic, I

2,000 km. Uh, it's also not realistic, I think, for a person who actually uses it. Another thing I wasn't going to do,

it. Another thing I wasn't going to do, which I mentioned in the video, was I was not going to run it out to the very very end and have it die on the side of the road, which for the record is what all those other media did.

>> These are local media I'm talking about.

the only kind of quote foreign media or really what I should say is media posting in English on a foreign platform that have done this review uh or this type. But they all went until it was

type. But they all went until it was dead stop. Couldn't go any further. And

dead stop. Couldn't go any further. And

I was like, "Okay, it's um like 35°.

It's like 110% humidity. This highway's

down here.

>> It's borderline a swamp outside, so the mosquitoes are everywhere." Yeah, I'm not doing that. Another reason, just for practical reasons, is we didn't want to make it. We wanted to make a loop that

make it. We wanted to make a loop that ended in Shanghai because in case we actually did get 2,000 km, I didn't want to make it like I don't want to go 2,000 km south and then have to go all the way back.

>> This is like when you want to run like 10k or something, right? Halfway through

you got to start running back otherwise you're going to run [ __ ] 20k.

>> Yes. Um and so uh it was uh I chose we chose not to run it flat, but I remember when I we got to the point we had a very big decision to make because we were about 20 km from the next gas station.

It was no longer displaying a range. It

just said fill the tank. And so, and it was out of electric range. It had been out of electric range for a long time.

And so, I'm looking at my partner like the next filming station after this one that's 20 km away is 100 km. And I'm

like, theoretically, yes. Do we roll the dice? Like, theoretically, we could eek

dice? Like, theoretically, we could eek it out. And I kind of wanted to cuz one

it out. And I kind of wanted to cuz one of the interesting things about that video is that I I found through uh as I got closer and closer to the end of the tank that I wanted to try and get as far as possible.

>> You just want to push it.

>> It was game was gifying it. My I was automatically gamifying it.

>> I know what you mean.

>> Yeah. And so I ended up >> cuz you made it that [ __ ] far. So you

wanted to know.

>> I'm like can I get to 1500? Like why not try? But I I said I was like I I wanted

try? But I I said I was like I I wanted to make this realistic. I I'm not going to start realistically. Probably if you were getting that close to the end of the range, you'd also slow down, but oh well. Um the uh I wanted to make it

well. Um the uh I wanted to make it realistic to show like how far you could actually go if you drove like a normal human being, you know, and didn't >> normal driving conditions, normal situations.

>> Precisely. Yeah.

>> Well, let me let me I want to back it up a little bit. Okay. Just in terms of this whole EV conversation because I'm not a car guy. I find all this stuff

really fascinating. Um, I find that

really fascinating. Um, I find that especially the topic of EVs in China is a really hot and fascinating topic right now. Um, but I was never brought up as a

now. Um, but I was never brought up as a car guy. Like I never got into cars for

car guy. Like I never got into cars for whatever reason. So when I hear all this

whatever reason. So when I hear all this stuff, my mind is always gravitates towards the the larger topic I guess of why EVs and what is it solving for?

what's what's your school of thought on that in terms of the bigger picture of why EVs are important to the world if they are in your opinion and uh yeah and

what solutions do they bring so it's an interesting question I mean I I think that there are certain media who are it would be more accurate to rather than calling them car reviewers you just call them EV advocates you know they're just

people that either for genuine reasons believe that electric vehicles are the solution that the world needs and that their their purpose is to make sure people know that or for reasons of it's a hot topic and you can make money if

you make do this kind of content. I am

not what I would call someone who's an evangelist of electric vehicles, but I do to your point think there are genuine practical like problems that they solve.

So speaking environmentally, it's obviously been a really debated topic for years. You know, there was the whole

for years. You know, there was the whole thing, the meme basically years ago of like, well, actually, if you factor in the the materials used in the battery pack, a Prius isn't as environmentally friendly as a Hummer H2. And it's like

that's >> that's what I hear, you know, >> patentedly false.

>> Um, there are if you if you I mean, and it's it's it's become so common for people to believe that and also I think politically useful. Um, but the truth of

politically useful. Um, but the truth of the matter is if you if you look at a car leaving a factory, right, and you say, "Okay, this is a pure ICE internal combustion engine vehicle and this is an

EV." When they leave the factory, yeah,

EV." When they leave the factory, yeah, the environmental grounds, right?

>> They're not though. That's I should so this have to think in longer terms. the the EV did take uh is more resource intensive because the amount of um chemistry of the battery and stuff and the materials in the battery and the

chemicals I should say um than the internal combustion engine vehicle. But

the longer you drive them before not too long, you know, we're not talking about 15 years, we're talking about two and three and four years, the EV then go

blows past the um the gas car and that also obviously includes cost of ownership. Um, now that's much more true

ownership. Um, now that's much more true in China than it is abroad because the price of Chinese electric vehicles is so outrageously low. Um, due to both the

outrageously low. Um, due to both the incentives created by the Chinese government and then also the insane level of competition.

>> Yeah.

>> Holy moly. I mean, this is a separate topic we can get to. I want to finish answering your question here. But

>> the there's a reason all the Chinese companies want to leave China and go abroad. It's because for them that's so

abroad. It's because for them that's so much greener pastures. Like in Chinese they say Hongghai and Langhai, right?

The the the red ocean. Yes. Yes. I speak

Chinese much more better than I can translate in English. So this is very much a a place where the competition is way too high. But yes. So when it comes to electric vehicles, like I said, the

practical solutions are I do think environmentally overall they are going to be better. I do think they're going to be the future, especially as we transition away from battery pack

chemistries that use uh more intensely things like lithium uh and things like um um phosphorus, whatever. We move away from those and we move into ones that

have both less harmful materials um in terms environmentally, but also in terms of the impact that they have in collecting them, right? Because we have to acknowledge, as is so often the case

when it comes to these things, what we do is we improve the air in our city by destroying the environment of some other place where they have to actually mine

the materials to make the battery packs.

>> Like I really try to acknowledge all the aspects of the process of making these vehicles because I think it's disingenuous to just say it's better >> when that's it.

>> Yeah. And then that's it. And when what you mean is it's better for me here now.

>> Um >> yeah, you got to look at the earth level.

>> Yes. The earth. Yes. The earth level.

Take a global picture. Um, and so like as we move away from these more damaging chemistries, more more mining intensive chemistries and stuff and move

more to like the sodium ion batteries, which there's much talk about BYD coming out with and stuff, which are way cheaper to make and have used much more common materials, then I think you're

going to see that that curvature that that that comparison of the cars leaving the factory getting closer and closer and closer, right, to the point where the EV is almost on par hopefully with a internal combustion engine vehicle and

maybe it takes just 6 months for you to pass it in terms of environmental damage.

>> So when you're saying on par is like when when it when it exits the factory the amount of um I guess harm environmentally that it took to build

each car is about the same.

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

>> Hopefully. And so you're you're what you're saying right now is in its current state, an EV when it leaves the factory, the EV took a lot more to to

build, I guess, uh maybe resources, but once you get it on the road over, you know, just a handful of years, it kind of pays for itself and and then some in

terms of its savings towards the the environment, I guess.

>> Yeah, I I think that's the that's the overall picture right now. And I will hasten to hasten to say that I'm an expert at standing in hot parking lots and talking about what's good and bad about a car. I'm not an industry level expert and I hope that you there are

those in your audience who will very politely and patiently explain if there's something that I've gotten wrong here. Um but that's my understanding as

here. Um but that's my understanding as it stands.

>> Makes sense. Um, and so yeah, it's like closing that time gap of, you know, as opposed to six months after it leaves the factory, the EV is, you know, uh, and more environmentally friendly because when you think about the impact

of a vehicle, um, what the, you know, the Tesla Model S owner in California that has a license plate that says f big oil or whatever

doesn't understand is that, you know, their their electricity is coming from, you know, natural gas or something, there is still an environmental impact.

And when you look at the the overall environmental impact when purchasing a ve or when creating a vehicle when manufacturing a vehicle like it's important to consider that and that's why I say when they leave the factory

the EV is less environmentally friendly >> and you got to look at that like for anything cuz like it's that's not the only industry where you know people are trying to move in that direction. It

it's it's like are you truly carbon neutral? Like the people that design the

neutral? Like the people that design the cars work in an office. Is that office carbon neutral? Right. the whole supply

carbon neutral? Right. the whole supply chain the materials like you can you know again is it at the earth level is it actually helping the earth if it cooling the earth down or is it heating

it up and I think you know but those evangelists are needed because before anything becomes mainstream and before this technology becomes mature if there's not investment and subsidies and

development and competition we'll never actually get there so in the beginning you kind of have to uh you know you got to like kind of uh nurture it a little bit >> yeah and it's also kind of annoying I I

think when a lot of these big changes hopefully for the better happen you have a lot of naysayers who are trying to like nitpick and punch holes in the thing without understanding like things

get more efficient over time right and it's a process and to expect because like this is still like relatively early days in terms of I think the big picture

we're talking about and to be like oh on day one you guys have to be already like freaking killing it and everything has to make 100% sense and then everything is like has to be on the like I mean

then then you're setting an impossible standard for any industry to achieve on day one. Meanwhile, everything is a

day one. Meanwhile, everything is a process and these things improve over time and you have to be like what Eric was saying, you have to nurture it along the way. I think instead of trying to I

the way. I think instead of trying to I mean there's there's a there's a value in terms of people punching holes in things and and testing your arguments and and and questioning and challenging.

I I think that's useful, but I think when that becomes your sole agenda is just to try to tear something down for whatever motives you have, I mean, then that that's really counterproductive.

>> Yeah. I mean, as a person whose job it is to say what's good and bad about cars, I'm all about punching holes and things, but I do think that you you need you need early adopters,

right? And you also need to acknowledge

right? And you also need to acknowledge the fact that okay, so electric car technology isn't necessarily as matured as internal combustion engine technology. Huge surprise. They've been

technology. Huge surprise. They've been

making internal combustion engine vehicles since the 1880s, you know, and and electric cars. Something that a lot of people don't know or are only vaguely

aware of is the fact that early on in the automobile indo industry, if I can speak English correctly, um, electric cars were actually considered a very viable alternative. And it wasn't until

viable alternative. And it wasn't until they really improved internal combustion engines to the point where ownership was so much more convenient than an electric car because the battery technology back then was, as you can imagine, in the the

early 20th century, batteries were not very good. Um, at at that point the

very good. Um, at at that point the ownership experience for an ICE vehicle was so much more convenient that there was no there's really only there's no chance for electric vehicles to continue. Um,

continue. Um, >> when was this?

>> This was in the early 20th century. So,

the early 1900s >> really. Yeah. Back then they were

>> really. Yeah. Back then they were already thinking about this stuff. They

were there were already battery electric vehicles available like Baker the Baker electric was a was a very famous early vehicle and the range was I'm going to make something up here. I mean something

something like 20 to 30 miles or something and and you say that's both impressive considering it was overund years ago >> and also not especially practical.

>> Were they like hand hand crank batteries or something?

>> I don't know. I don't even know. It was

like was probably a lead acid battery if I had to I had to guess. I don't know off the top of my head, but what's interesting is when when their the mainstream market started to diminish because ice vehicles became more

convenient >> uh and you can just go to the pharmacy at the time and fill up your gas tank.

>> They changed their marketing tactics to actually go after uh female buyers because at that point, this is before electric start, right? Before you could hit a button or turn a key and have the car start, you had to crank it. like you

were like you you you crank it and there's the chance that it it like backfires and breaks your arm or whatever. Um and then it also it stinks.

whatever. Um and then it also it stinks.

It's and all these things. Again, there

was not a lot of uh exhaust particulate filtering going on in the early night early 20th century. So, they use that as a way to say to female buyers, hey, you

guys do not have to worry about these big noisy smelly engines or having to get out and crank this car to start it.

you can just turn the key or even just get in and go. Um, and that again proved to be an effective marketing tool for maybe a decade, decade and a half before then all of a sudden they had electric

start in vehicles and the advantages became very obvious. So, and it's taken us about a hundred years to come back around to it.

>> It's crazy.

>> It's crazy to think about that. And now

look at the way EVs have taken over the world in but not as much as we think, right? Because in

China, we live in this bubble where on the road it's like 70% EV vehicles.

Meanwhile, you look at some of the statistics in the states and stuff like that and you you see it kind of going down a little bit.

>> All I see is like I live, you know, I grew up in Texas, right? It's just all it's all SUVs, right? Trucks,

>> pickup trucks, like SUVs. So, have you been noticing anything like that? Or do

you when I don't know if you're doing research or speaking with your fans or anything like that? What do you see the EV industry in terms of it placement in the world?

>> So, I mean, it's markettomarket, right?

I think EV adoption, if you look at a place like the United States, technically the EV market, I believe, is still growing, but it's just not growing anywhere near as fast as they thought it would. And there's good reasons for

would. And there's good reasons for that. Like when someone tells me in the

that. Like when someone tells me in the comment section of a video that I make about a Chinese car in China, well this car doesn't suit my lifestyle, I I don't go, "You're a liar or you're an idiot."

I go, "I believe you." In most cases in the US, it's it's a much more believable thing to say because the electric vehicle charging infrastructure is the statistic I like to give is that there

are more uh electric vehicle chargers in I think one district or I'll be generous in just the city of Shanzhan in China than there are in the entire United States.

>> That's crazy, >> right? And so

>> right? And so it's not hard to understand why somebody would look at that situation and make a very practical decision that no, I'm not ready to adopt an electric vehicle.

>> Not to mention the fact that in the United States, electric vehicle prices are absolutely ridiculous.

>> The value for money just isn't there yet when you've got to spend $50,000 plus dollars to get the Chevy uh the new Blazer electric vehicle, which had a hellaciously bad launch because its

electronics, its software rather, was incredibly buggy and stranded multiple journalists. Uh, and I have friends at

journalists. Uh, and I have friends at >> Were they using Microsoft or was it >> Yeah, it was Windows 2. Never even heard of Windows 2. Um, but uh >> got blue screen on their

>> They blue screened. Exactly. They got

bluec screened at multiple chargers.

>> That recently happened at all the airports. Did you hear that?

airports. Did you hear that?

>> Yeah. Why? That's crowd. Crowd.

>> Oh, I had not heard about this.

>> You were stuck in the Middle East.

>> I was stuck in Yes. There's like there's memes going around like call it like they want that day to be called like the national blue screen day so people don't have to work. make it a national holiday. Yeah. Um, so, so you got you

holiday. Yeah. Um, so, so you got you got the problem of price, right, which is where electric vehicles in the United States are still way too expensive. You

also have the problem of uh, frankly, they're just not that great. The the the products that are available on the US market compared to the products that are available in China, it's it's laughable.

I mean, the value for money, the technology, the convenience, and all these things, these these brands, these legacy automakers, we call them, right?

your General Motors, your Volkswagens, your Toyotas, your Germans, they they are genuinely behind. And they know they're behind. And I know they're know

they're behind. And I know they're know they know they're behind because I speak to people at these manufacturers and the Germans are the least likely to acknowledge this fact in real life. Um,

which is why they're maybe most behind, but they they know that they're struggling to catch up to where the Chinese automakers are in in terms of these PHEV and EV models. and and and

it's both in terms of all all aspects of the experience, both the what they call the the the three com aspects of a battery electric vehicle, right? The battery, the motors, and the

right? The battery, the motors, and the battery management system, the BMS, which is incredibly important, which is why Tesla's always been quite good at BMS, which is one of their major advantages.

>> What what is what uh battery management system?

>> Battery management system. So it's

essentially the the software that they use to manage the juice in that battery to make sure that's used as efficiently as possible.

>> So if your BMS is bad, it doesn't matter if you have a big ass battery pack. If

you don't >> use it appropriately, use it, you know, judiciously, then you will barely get as far as the person that has a smaller battery pack with the better software.

>> Yeah. You get a lot of wasted power out there.

>> Absolutely. And so, um, they also have in terms of the the interiors and stuff, the smart technology, as the Jungong, as they call it in China, is is so much better.

>> So much better.

>> Yeah. The voice command systems. Oh my god. One of my favorite pastimes is

god. One of my favorite pastimes is borrowing a car from a foreign brand.

Um, like I had an Audi Q3L. It's like

Q3L Ron. Was one of their um >> the newer one.

>> One of the newer. Yeah. Their electric

model. And the voice command system was hilariously bad. And I was I was trying

hilariously bad. And I was I was trying to do it in Chinese. And just for the record, I had my Chinese co-orker, who obviously speaks Chinese better than I do, it do the same commands, and it was

just the simplest things it would not do. Or a Kia that we borrowed. Um, we

do. Or a Kia that we borrowed. Um, we

had an EV6 GT, which is a phenomenally driving car, great car to drive, but it has like manually adjusted seats for over 400,000

RMBB. Yeah, you can get a ET7, you know,

RMBB. Yeah, you can get a ET7, you know, which has got cooled, heated and massaging front and second row seats.

>> Was that the Neo thingy?

>> Yes.

>> Like their high-end like >> correct their their highest end sedan.

So when it comes to all these different aspects, the these these foreign manufacturers are are in trouble. So

this is why I think u these infrastructure issues, product issues that the EV adoption in places like the United States has not been as fast as it probably as it could be or they expected

it to be. Um, and then of course obviously you have the politics.

>> Yeah. Yeah.

>> I mean in terms of your videos because uh I like I mentioned to you before, I've been watching your videos for a while now and sometimes I'll scroll through the comments and and you see like the mixed type of comments. You see

a lot of people be like, "Oh god, I wish it was here in America or I wish it was here in Europe." Well, that's so you guys are so lucky. You have so much choice and this is amazing. But then you got the other people that's just like, "Ah, it's Chinese brand. It sucks,

right?" And it's like, "Oh, quit bullshitting." you know, and that kind

bullshitting." you know, and that kind of that kind of talk, right?

>> Uh, which I can kind of get, and we've mentioned this previously, I forgot which episode. We were talking about how

which episode. We were talking about how if you look back in the 80s, the way uh, America demonized Japanese manufacturers and its cars and then Koreans afterwards, right? It was always like

afterwards, right? It was always like because of competition and, you know, many other factors.

Chinese is just going through its time right now as well. It seems like globally, right? But I'm pretty sure

globally, right? But I'm pretty sure that there's some markets that you know that Chinese cars have already entered for a bit that has a lot of good

feedback especially with Biotti being a pretty uh I would say mature brand uh in some ways. What other manufacturers do

some ways. What other manufacturers do you think are kind of giving a good name for Chinese EV?

>> I mentioned previously like when I so I was when when I was in Riyad for the last week and I spoke with some people there. I didn't do a comprehensive

there. I didn't do a comprehensive study, but I did speak with various or multiple people there from different income levels and stuff about Chinese cars and I got some interesting feedback

like I I think overall people like them quite a bit for the reasons that you would expect, i.e. very high value >> value, right? So, you can get a car that

costs significantly less than say a BMW, but actually has more features than the BMW, like your heated cooled and massaging seats and a more uh a much

nicer to look at and more easy to use UI and UX experience for the center screen and all these things, a heads up display, da da da. Um, I think that

there are there are definitely markets like that where Chinese vehicles are being accepted much more quickly. South

America as I mentioned there's a lot of there's growing popularity for Chinese brands like BYD that is one where they've they've been very successful so far and it includes their their pure

electric models as well you know success is a relative term I want to be clear um right now about about a year ago it seemed as though every single Chinese

manufacturer as a collective unit went okay now is when we sent out our press release that we're going to the Middle East and when you see something like that you start to I think that came from above. I I do think that the Chinese government

basically was like, "Okay, guys, it's time for us to to get out of the country." I'm not saying that the

country." I'm not saying that the Chinese manufacturers were reticent to do that. They all want to do that for

do that. They all want to do that for the competitiveness of this market that I mentioned before. Um, but it does feel like it's kind of been like we're all going out. Excuse me as I bump into the

going out. Excuse me as I bump into the mic. So, it's been we're all going out

mic. So, it's been we're all going out right now. And I think whether it's the

right now. And I think whether it's the Middle East or whether it's Southeast Asia, the current state of Chinese car makers in those places is nowhere near

as impressive as they would have you believe in the press releases and especially the the the the news you're getting within within China, right? It's

basically if you'd listen to that, then you would say like, well, 3 months from now, BYD is going to be the only car sold in Thailand. Um, and that's not the case.

>> But they're just launching in Thailand.

is the the like at least in the bigger push earlier this year, right?

>> Yes. Yes. And and it's it is very much and this is this is this is fine. This

is the steps to entering a market. There

has to be a period of a yearslong period of adoption that comes from the consumer because uh it just the anecdote that I got from the guy that I spoke with in in

Saudi Arabia. One guy was like, "You

Saudi Arabia. One guy was like, "You know, my family bought a Toyota in 2000.

We're still using that Toyota. It's

never really had any problems." He's like, "That's what the Chinese have to do. The Chinese have to prove

do. The Chinese have to prove themselves." And you're talking about

themselves." And you're talking about again a timeline of of a decade at least. So, it's perfectly understandable

least. So, it's perfectly understandable that Chinese manufacturers have not overnight conquered every single market.

Do I think that they will in the long term conquer pretty much every market?

Absolutely. I do.

>> I think so, too.

>> Absolutely. I I think that there's I think I was listening to a thing. Um I

will take this moment to recommend a a podcast that I listen to for those who want to stay upto-date on news in the Chinese car industry and what's happening. Uh China EVs and more, which

happening. Uh China EVs and more, which is hosted by uh a guy named Tuli and then Le Singh. They're the co-hosts and it's focused on the Chinese car industry and industry level news. Whereas my

content is car reviews, individual car reviews. So they were talking about the

reviews. So they were talking about the fact that there's a study out recently that I think it's the European market is going to be like 30% Chinese cars by 2030.

>> Well, European market is still I mean there's only a few brands that's really pushing right like Ja is going out there. Y

there. Y >> and Neo >> Zer, >> right? Ziker, Neo, but they're not

>> right? Ziker, Neo, but they're not really doing big stuff over there.

>> No. And and Europe is another example of the one where it looks really really good on a press release to say we're in Europe. What they might mean is we're

Europe. What they might mean is we're selling. We have one dealership in we

selling. We have one dealership in we have two dealerships in Norway and then one in Germany and probably not even one in the UK. And again, no no shade being thrown at the Chinese manufacturers cuz

it's just it's called marketing, right?

And it sounds really good to to domestic audiences to say like we are selling a bra. We're now an international brand.

bra. We're now an international brand.

And it's true, but only to a very limited extent.

>> Yeah. Because they can now use that word, right? I'm we're an international

word, right? I'm we're an international brand.

>> Well, how would you rate their marketing? like it sounds like the

marketing? like it sounds like the quality of the car has already reached a pretty high level, right? What would you

rate their ability to market and sell um you know in in other countries?

>> Um I I think more and more of them are going to a uh they're getting more and more local teams, right? a team that's based in Germany or based in France or based in Brazil as opposed to having it

be completely dictated by the Chinese office, which is a recipe for absolute disaster. Um, but there's definitely

disaster. Um, but there's definitely some room for improvement. There's going

to be growing pains. Um, one of the things that Chinese manufacturers seem to do a terrible job of is naming cars.

And it's not what you think. I think

like the the names for Chinese models, I'll pick on a couple of brands here.

BYD and there's a brand called Aura which is owned by Great Wall Motor. Um

BYD their model names they're just they're just very confusing, right? The lines

that they have >> Dolphin.

>> Dolphin. I like I love dolphin, seagull, sea lion.

>> It's like a Sheilia, which is good.

>> Exactly. Um and it does and it does make sense even in even in English. But for

for then they start throwing in like now it's called like the Sea Lion 05 and Sea Lion 07. Oh, it's not Sea Lion Seal.

Lion 07. Oh, it's not Sea Lion Seal.

Sorry, the Seal the Sedan. They've got

one that's the Seal05 and the Seal05 PHEV. It's just very confusing. And when

PHEV. It's just very confusing. And when

they go abroad in certain cases, they've been essentially convinced by their local manufacturers, their local representatives, right? the

dealership network that's contracted with them to sell their cars in that country, say Australia for example, like we can't call it the BYDUN plus, we've got to call it the ATO 3 or whatever.

Um, and then you end up with a very confusing, >> but who says you can't >> the the Australian, as I understand it, right? As I understand it, allegedly the

right? As I understand it, allegedly the Australian distributor for BYD basically was like, "Yeah, you can't sell it as a UN plus, right? This is their electric compact SUV, which is our company car.

Actually, it sounds to Chinese or whatever logic they used. And so they convinced them to change it to the ATO3 at which apparently means like it's like how Google means a really huge number.

>> Okay. So, but like this is interesting, right? When I think about um I don't

right? When I think about um I don't know, Toyota, let's just use Toyota as example. And I know less about cars than

example. And I know less about cars than anyone in this room. I've never even bought a car before. I've driven cars and handme-downs from my family. I've

never purchased a car in my whole life, right? And uh I don't drive one out here

right? And uh I don't drive one out here in China. When I think about though,

in China. When I think about though, Toyota, right? I mean, it's a very

Toyota, right? I mean, it's a very interesting sort of thing because I know they're a Japanese company with incredible history and legacy, but when I see their commercials and everything,

it just feels like, oh, there's an entire like in the US, there's like a whole US operation where it's basically like a US company. And in my mind, it's like this bifurcated thing where there's a Japanese Toyota and they do their

thing and it's the global company and then Toyota in America. I mean, their their shit's just like any other American brand almost in terms of how they market it, right? So, I imagine it's mostly Americans and stuff and it's

pretty um independent. Um then when you look at like you know their brands, I don't even know if they have the same names, right? Like the the Toyota cars

names, right? Like the the Toyota cars in Japan, are they called the even the same thing? The Nissans are they called

same thing? The Nissans are they called the same thing or it's like a totally different name in different countries.

So like that there's a whole game that you have to play. And I wonder how long and that's kind of the root of my question with for the Chinese manufacturers is like how long will it take them to kind of basically have

completely localized operations in those countries.

>> So first of all you're right there is Toyota of America, there's Subaru of America, there's Mercedes of America, right? And they do have a certain level

right? And they do have a certain level of independence which varies from brand to brand. I also want to clarify what I

to brand. I also want to clarify what I was something I was saying before, which is that I I it's not possible to have the same vehicle model name for every single market. That's unrealistic for various

market. That's unrealistic for various cultural reasons and stuff.

>> Um >> I just think that there's maybe perhaps a better example was that I started to say was Aura, right? So they're the the brand from Chong Chong from Great Wall Motor. They used to have cars like the

Motor. They used to have cars like the Good Cat, the Black Cat, the White Cat, right? which is a play on the I think

right? which is a play on the I think it's Maong who said you know >> I don't >> I don't care if it's a white cat or black cat as long as it >> catches it catches my thank you

if it catches the mouse it's a good cat or something like that and so that's why they had the black cat the white cat and the good cat >> okay >> and these are fun names they're straight up just fun names and then they export them and they for a bit called them that

and then they changed it to like the GWM or03 >> what >> and I about >> for which market are we talking about >> for I think that was specifically for the UK but or Europe in general. Um, it

just so happens that I, as I understand it, Great Wall Motor fired like a ton of their European marketing team. But

whether that was because of performance or because that they weren't selling as many cars as they wanted to, I don't know. But it will take many years for

know. But it will take many years for the Chinese manufacturers to reach the level that you're talking about there

with having a relatively independent um set of representatives in every country. So one of the major things

country. So one of the major things about that is Toyota has multiple manufacturing facilities or factories in the US, right, and other places. And if

you are just the person who's running the US office and you know, you're probably not going to have as much sway back in back in Shanzhan where BYD is if you if you're just the person who's

like, well, you're the representative.

Your job is just to translate the advertisements, right? But if you're the

advertisements, right? But if you're the person who's supposed to be overseeing major manufacturing facilities within that place like domestically then you can have a much larger influence.

>> They have more say because you're a general manager of a bigger oper operation. But you know I was just

operation. But you know I was just thinking like they should just get like some you know like Tik Tok does a [ __ ] awesome job right you know in terms of marketing and stuff like that.

You should just find whatever Chinese brands that like shine you guys were talking about some other show right with with Yeah. Just it's like just hire all

with Yeah. Just it's like just hire all those [ __ ] that like are good at selling Chinese [ __ ] and hawking it in other countries and then like fire all your people, right? Just hire the Tik Tok team.

>> Yeah. And I mean obviously you're selling a different kind of product. Um,

and getting someone to download and use an app is a little different than getting them to use to buy a $35,000 car. But, you know, um, but I do agree

car. But, you know, um, but I do agree with you in principle there that they there are examples that they can look to to say, um, how can we do it?

>> Like, how can we run and I was being facitious about hiring their people, but just like, well, how does Tik Tok actually run their business so it's relevant, right? And then what kind of

relevant, right? And then what kind of structure does that look like? How could

you adapt it to, you know, the the car industry, etc., etc. And like I mean facitiously it's like yeah you just you know buy all the ads on Tik Tok and just get them to show Chinese EVs all the time and maybe that would work. I don't

know.

>> And and there's more and more of that. I

mean BYD was a major obviously as you probably Anybody here watch I think they call it football.

>> Soccer.

>> Soccer.

>> Yeah. I don't know what football is.

>> The uh the Euro Cup or whatever. I just

just Yeah. We don't we don't really watch.

>> No no no. I watched none of it. I do not care. I don't I don't watch sports.

care. I don't I don't watch sports.

>> I'm so American here. Jesus.

>> Yeah. I mean, is it called the Euro Cup?

I don't even know what it means. No,

seriously. Is it called the Euro Cup?

>> Is it?

>> There's a lot of different cups, right?

I think one of them is called the Euro Cup. There's got to be There's got to be

Cup. There's got to be There's got to be a Euro Cup.

>> That's the one that Spain just won.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Against the Against England, which is the only information I know.

Oh, I didn't even know that.

>> See, there's a little Trump in all of us. We love being ignorant.

us. We love being ignorant.

>> Let's not uh hang on this topic.

>> We're not experts on that.

>> Yes, I can hear that there's people somewhere just raging listening to this.

So I we will not we will not >> all our listeners are soccer fans.

>> I want to pull it back a little bit because I don't want to get so focused on marketing because um and like you said that's not your real focus.

>> Technically my undergraduate was was public relations and marketing.

>> Oh is it really?

>> Yes.

>> Okay.

>> So aha right in your face.

>> But but also dare you talk about either because I'm not an expert. So

>> exactly. So but but I am curious because come on we're we're away from your show right now. You're on our podcast. You've

right now. You're on our podcast. You've

tested and driven so many EVs here.

How many EVs have you tested?

>> Let's talk a little [ __ ] Let's talk a little [ __ ] here.

>> We can do it.

>> Let's talk a little [ __ ] >> How many Hold on. How many EVs have you tested up until this point?

>> I mean, if you just like all the videos on my channel, I think I I think we have over 200 videos or something like close to 200 videos.

>> That's nice. Um, and so that doesn't I've driven more cars than that because obviously it doesn't include like when a new car comes out, I if I am not going to be able to get it for a video, I'll still go to the dealership and at least try.

>> You find your way to >> I saw so the ones I saw recently cuz I started watching after how I mentioned you're coming on. What was that? What's

that brand where they had like the super [ __ ] high-end [ __ ] >> Yan Wong, >> like the Rolls-Royce of China, but it's like >> Sorry. Is that

>> Sorry. Is that And yeah, those are some good reviews.

Like you were like you were pretty I mean you like you gave praise where it was deserved and then you're like you know and you kind of criticize when >> when it's bad.

>> Yeah. That's that's like the standard for a good review.

>> No, but but the bare minimum what I was surprised at is like in these multi-million vehicles like he was like imp he it was more about the actual read like there were he was actually impressed with some of the stuff and

then there were some elements that weren't like at the ros level you know.

>> Yeah. Absolutely not. Um, yeah. Uh, I I think something you mentioned before, right? And I feel like this is something

right? And I feel like this is something that comes up in every one of your podcasts where you talk to somebody who is uh like on social media and posting about China and stuff. There's always

going to be people in the comments section that are going to the second comment of the video is always somebody being like, >> you know, how much is the Communist Party? Yeah. How much how much are they

Party? Yeah. How much how much are they paying this guy?

>> Nothing.

How much are you getting from the CCP?

>> Honestly, nothing.

>> Not a not not a dime. Not so far. Um and

and so the way I combat that, you cannot combat that. You know, you can't I mean

combat that. You know, you can't I mean a apart from I mean I combat that in my mind by knowing that I review cars sub like uh as objectively as possible.

Everything is subjective essentially.

But I mean to say that I try to at least acknowledge what's good and what's bad.

So I'm not afraid in review, right? to

to say like this user interface is amazing and the performance of this car for this price is great but holy hell

this interior material quality is [ __ ] you know like I my the most it's as a car reviewer and another one of my my friends is guy named um Will Sunden who

runs a channel called um China Driven he and I talk all the time about the fact that it's it's interesting as car reviewers we are we're drawn to the extremes right we We want to see the newest, hottest, coolest thing. And

there's reasons for that. There's

objective reasons. Like, I know that a video that is the newest, hottest, coolest thing is going to get more reviews. But it's also easier to write a

reviews. But it's also easier to write a script because most of my videos are scripted about a car that has something really interesting going on. Um, I do find myself, and I have a acknowledged before in my videos that I I find it

hard sometimes when I'm reviewing the fifth new Chinese electric sedan in a month to find something new to say about it. Because not every car, a lot of

it. Because not every car, a lot of these cars are very mainstream models where the the design is supposed to be as like let's say Jongyong, right? Like

as mainstream and average and non-offensive as possible. Like what the hell do you do with that?

>> What do I when something's like vanilla and vanilla vanilla all over again?

>> Yeah, exactly. It's like this delicious triple vanilla ice cream. It tastes like vanilla.

>> This vanilla is so much better than the last vanilla which was the consistency.

>> Yeah. But that's what I kind of want to ask you about because you you've been reviewing so many cars and one trend that I find at least I mean I'm no car

expert either but just from seeing on the road and in showrooms it seems like without naming names but not the biggest players but you have so many EVs that

are just coming out of the woodworks at least from my perspective because I'm I don't I don't know who they are but they kind of have similar design sense in terms of the exterior that bar in the back.

>> Oh, yeah.

>> Right. And then you go to the interior.

Now it's starting to be like the really like the full LED across both the driver and the passenger side.

>> Oh, you mean that color thing like that purple little line or something?

>> Well, it's just you're having these design sensibilities that are kind of becoming prevalent in every new model >> to a certain extent. That happens in every market, right? There's there's a

kind of a coming a singularity at some point. And I do think that Chinese

point. And I do think that Chinese designs like I I do think one of the valuable things about my channel that people can learn is that not every Chinese design is a copycat of a foreign brand right?

>> Oh yeah.

>> Obviously that's not the case. Now does

it feel like Chinese designs are all kind of converging? Yes. And I've

acknowledged that in multiple videos where I'm like, okay, another car with a LED light bar front end with lower headlight units. Do you know what I

headlight units. Do you know what I mean? Which the Xpunk P7 was the

mean? Which the Xpunk P7 was the original kind of design for that.

one of the most influential influential designs in the Chinese car indo elements used in slightly different ways. And and that's why like if if you

ways. And and that's why like if if you are someone who just pops their head into, you know, this topic like like a lot of my audience are, then they might

be like, "Wow, these cars all look really the same." because they don't have the same level of um understanding or interest as I have. And so I can tell them apart and I can say, "Well, well,

actually, you know, this is you have a hard time distinguishing >> I know what they I know I can tell them what they what they all are, what brand they are, but again, I have to acknowledge that the the fact

>> I think that's just I think that's just a characteristic of tech, right? Like

maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but like I mean after the after the iPhone came out, they all kind of minimized and had that little button and it all started kind of looking the same, right? So it

happened with smartphones. It happens

with cameras, camera technology. All

these cameras like different features, you start seeing them across different brands all of a sudden and looks like they're all kind of copying each other.

>> But cars are known for their design, right? So that's that's you're not

right? So that's that's you're not design. I have a question. I mean I you

design. I have a question. I mean I you know this is I'm sure you you have a point like in terms of the convergence right but I'm actually curious because there's so many

car brands here and like you know there's a lot of uh talk about you know the government subsidizing etc etc the the the way this kind of stuff gets solved is just like competition right

and then like if you don't innovate and come up with something new if all the shit's the same then all these companies are going to go out of business that's just how it works because If we can't even tell the difference, no one's going

to tell the difference and then they're gonna, you know, even if there's 10 that are similar and if this the sales just randomly get spread across the 10, then those 10 will basically go out of business because they won't get enough

business. So, I'm just curious like your

business. So, I'm just curious like your perspective on the on the industry is like why are there so many copycats? Is

it because of some you know government sort of uh you know investment subsidy in it and then at what point will this sort of like you know dilute and filter itself out so that you end up with just

a couple of main ones cuz like in like in Japan like I don't know like it's basically what Toyota, Nissan, Subaru I mean there's the few but in China it seems like there's a shitload and that's

not sustainable.

>> It it isn't. So it's funny the great winnowing of Chinese brands is something that is supposed to have happened for the last 25 years. I mean people for decades have been saying like when's the consolidation going to happen in the

Chinese car industry and it has happened to some point at at a couple of points like the the you know 200 around 2005 or whatever and be a little before that there were some brands that kind of were

absorbed by other brands but not to an extent that would satisfy the people that want to see true like see the market as we think of it as a capitalist

way get rid of the weak players. It

still hasn't happened. And there are like over a hundred brands and >> Oh, 100.

>> Yeah. I think like what we're looking for is like five major brands, right?

>> Big three. We're looking for the Chinese big.

>> They kind of are though.

>> Yes.

>> Right. If you look at, for example, Tongan, if you look at under Tongan, there's so many of those new EV companies that are under Tongan.

>> Yes. And under and >> or JI as well.

>> Ji J. My god, they love their brands.

>> J did this like 10 15 years ago. They

made a bunch of brands which ended up having to kill off and now they're doing it again and I just can't wait to see.

>> So what what percentage of the the um the hundred are uh are profitable?

>> Oh like one >> I mean like there was recently the answer is yes. I think that m the subsidies pay a major like like first of all to acknowledge a lot of the brands

that you're seeing are underneath major corporations and so the brand itself. So

let's say for example Chongan let's stick with that. You've got Avatar, you've got Nevo, you've got um Oh god, there's too many. Let's say Avatar, their high-end brand. Okay, Avatar is not making a ton of money yet. They're

making money at all.

>> Cool looking car though.

>> Very cool.

>> Let's be honest here. I've seen a couple.

>> Let's be honest here.

>> Love Avatar models. They drive quite well. But let's say they're not making

well. But let's say they're not making money yet, but they have a big they have a major corporation behind them. The

brands that are going to the brands that have a hard time, and those major corporations are often stateowned enterprises. And I I do I have no

enterprises. And I I do I have no specific numbers as to like I don't know if anybody has specific numbers as to what the subsidies that these brands are receiving. And those subsidies can come

receiving. And those subsidies can come in various ways like they come from the central government, they can come from the provincial level government, they come from the like the city level, right? And they could include things

right? And they could include things like tax breaks. They include things like uh ease of getting loans from stateowned banks, right? And these are

obviously factors. Um,

obviously factors. Um, I think that I do not dare to put a timeline on when a consolidation will happen. It needs to happen. There are a

happen. It needs to happen. There are a bunch of brands that are just just zombie walking through selling hundreds of models a month, you know, hundreds of cars a month and and there's their exist their existence is essentially

meaningless.

But I won't dare to put a number on it because you've got like it's something that's supposed to have happened a long time ago.

>> Yeah. It's insane. You know, if you were the person that predicted that, oh, in 2010 you predicted by 2015 there will be only, let me change the timeline a little bit. In if in 2015 you predicted

little bit. In if in 2015 you predicted by 2020 there will only be 15 Chinese car brands, you would be so wrong it wouldn't your nose would bleed like that person's head would explode.

>> I bet there were people saying that too.

For sure. For sure.

>> Do you do you drive a car here?

>> Good question. No.

>> Okay.

>> I live in Shanghai. I I Our offices are in Sejang, which is in southwestern Shanghai for those that don't know. And

I live in in Shui in this in more towards the center of the city. My

commute is like an hour and 15 minutes.

>> Wait, why did you choose Sunjang?

>> Uh I didn't. Um

>> Jang chose him.

>> That's right. That's right. Um so this I'll take this back. This will also conveniently tell a little bit of the origin story, but basically >> um >> I found out from friend of a friend that two Chinese automotive journalists were

looking for a foreigner. This is in 2019. We're looking for a foreigner that

2019. We're looking for a foreigner that spoke Chinese to do car review videos.

And I was like, "Wow, I was born for this." Um, so I ended up connecting with

this." Um, so I ended up connecting with them and over the course of a couple years, we made videos on the weekends.

Uh, and then in 2021, April 11th, I'll never forget, was my last full-time job working in marketing. Um, where before I went full-time doing the car reviews.

And the reason I'm able to do that is because I can do them in English on YouTube, but also the Chinese platforms. Um, if it was YouTube alone, your boy would be destitute. Uh, because it's hard to make money on YouTube. But the

reason we're in Seongjang is cuz my partners, they lived there and were already already had an office there and for very practical reasons like the rent is a hell of a lot cheaper than it would be in the center of the city, right?

>> Um and so I have, you know, accepted the fact that I have a very long commute, but that commute is a combination of subway. It's just about 45 or 50

subway. It's just about 45 or 50 minutes line.

>> Um don't narrow it down too much. I'm

not people creeps waiting for me.

>> Why are you asking what line? What's

your address? No, no, no, no. It's a

weird question to ask. Like, you're

weird for asking that. I mean, for for commentary.

>> Eric almost gets into the nitty-gritty.

He's the nitty-gritty. Now, 99. Now,

which >> line cuz the last stop is like Sunjang or something.

>> Which exit do you take when you get to the station?

>> Well, usually I I do exit three, but sometimes if I'm feel spicy, I go for exit four.

>> I'm down there sometimes. The reason I mention this, I'm I'm in Ching Poo sometimes.

>> Well, we can add WeChats. That's not the way to get this information.

>> How far are you from Chingpoo? uh from

Chingpool.

Not not that close.

>> So >> I I I have this time on the subway, right? And then I have a 20 minute

right? And then I have a 20 minute 25minut bike ride from the subway to the office.

>> And >> oh, in this weather, >> it's fantastic. Um and I I I choose that lifestyle. Could I afford a car? Yes.

lifestyle. Could I afford a car? Yes.

You know, I couldn't afford most of the cars that I review, but I could afford some of the cheaper cars that I review.

I choose not to do that because one, it's just they're still pretty expensive and having a car in Shanghai is very expensive. You know, parking it, it's

expensive. You know, parking it, it's just such a pain. I also really enjoy the fact that as opposed to having a say 40 to 45 minute commute in the morning depending on when I left in the in a car

in which the only thing I can do is drive and maybe listen to a beautiful podcast like the honest drink I instead have 40 to 50 50 minutes on the subway where I can read a book where I can practice a script where I can write a

script where I can do any number of things post on Instagram any throw it on auto drive man hold on let's talk about [ __ ] in a minute no you have a driver

>> ah that's Right. Um, but

>> I have that and then at the end of it I have a 20 to 25 minute bike ride. So I

get exercise 40 minutes of cardio a day.

>> Yeah, that's perfect.

>> Your boy would be a hell of a lot fatter than he is if he did not get 40 minutes of cardio four to five times a week.

>> Do you shower at the office?

>> Uh, no. I just make them suffer.

>> I just let them smell the stink.

>> I get you though because I uh I got a car about last year, a little over a year ago. And um and but before that I

year ago. And um and but before that I took I commuted by subway every day and I miss that now.

>> I I miss my time on the subway as crazy as that sounds. It was kind of meditative.

>> I will acknowledge an important factor in this is the fact that because I'm going from the city center to the suburbs and then reverse of that at the end of the day I am missing the

incredibly like sardine packed subway lines, right? This the subway cars. If I

lines, right? This the subway cars. If I

had to do the other version, which is go from Sunjang to the city center, I have forget about it. Oh my god, I like >> you'd be standing the whole time.

>> Yes, absolutely. You're standing and you wouldn't be able to move. I mean, you absolutely crushed. And so I look across

absolutely crushed. And so I look across from my empty subway car to the subway cars across from me just like, "Oh, you poor bastards." I mean, that must really

poor bastards." I mean, that must really suck.

>> You got a good commute then.

>> But that's same with highways. You had a car like people driving into the city.

It's like bumperto-bumper traffic driving away from the city. Coast is

clear.

>> It's kind of like pick your poison here.

I mean, but I I'll tell you though, this is this year is the first year since I've been in Shanghai for the last 14 15 years already. This is the first year I

years already. This is the first year I I have road rage again.

I used to be calm and try and cool, man.

I like I I knew the deal here. I knew

pedestrians, scooters, like I've been living here long enough. It doesn't

bother me. It doesn't phase me.

>> But I'll tell you, I don't know what it is, but I've been losing my patience.

>> Okay, tell me what the past few months.

Yeah. I want to know what's your what are your triggers cuz you're pretty chill.

>> I'm really chill but I've been getting road racist his fist his white knuckled fist.

>> I'll tell you how bad it's got and and again I'm not going to we'll turn this back on you but I don't want to make this all about me but um I picked my mother-in-law from the airport >> to a bad start the other day.

>> This is so like this stuff's making me mad. So my I pick up my mother-in-law.

mad. So my I pick up my mother-in-law.

It's like the beginning of a this is the beginning of a middle-aged man joke from the 70s.

>> Okay. So, so we're driving back from Pudong airport. She's in the car. It's

Pudong airport. She's in the car. It's

just me and her.

>> And I'm on >> It's getting worse, dude.

>> And and uh you know, it's cordial. We

haven't seen each other in two weeks.

And you know, we we have a good relationship, me and her. So,

>> it's cordial.

>> Yeah. We're we're driving back and then I'm on the highway and I notice somebody for no reason just tailgating me, honking at me. Beep beep beep. Honking,

tailgating, honking. And then he's like he's he was I think it was a BMW he was driving.

>> Makes sense.

>> Typical. And then he was like he was like swerving and he was like swerving to the right trying to see around me and there's a car in front of me. So even if I wanted to go faster I couldn't.

There's literally I'm right behind another car and then he got beep beep beep beep and then oh man. And then and then so he finally pulls around and he starts like crepping up towards me, right? And I know like I'm ready for the

right? And I know like I'm ready for the eye contact. I'm [ __ ] ready for the

eye contact. I'm [ __ ] ready for the So I'm like and and my mother-in-law has no idea what's going on. She doesn't

know what he's back in it right now.

Look at him. He's back in it right now.

This is a trauma.

>> And as I see this car pulling up, I'm ready. I roll down her window and she's

ready. I roll down her window and she's like, "Why are you pulling down my window?"

window?" >> Oh my god, this poor woman.

>> And as he pulls up, I stick my hand right in front of her face. And I give that guy the finger. I'm like, "Fuck you." He nearly nearly punches his

you." He nearly nearly punches his mother-in-law in the face.

>> What? It was a guy.

>> Yeah, it was a guy. And you know, he was ready, too, because he was creeping up already like looking at me like like he was like rolling his window down. He

wanted to say something to me. And I'm

like, I'm [ __ ] And then and then we get into this road battle like in the highway where like he's going in front of me trying to like st like stomp on his brakes to like scare me. I'm

swerving around him and meanwhile she my mother-in-law is freaking out in the passenger seat, right? I'm losing my >> What is she saying to you? Like Justin,

>> no. She's just like holding on for dear life right?

The funny thing is she's never seen this side of me ever. Right. So in the house like the whole time she's ever known me.

She's known me as this like this calm, quiet guy. I don't lose my cool, very

quiet guy. I don't lose my cool, very patient. I never fought Pichi, right?

patient. I never fought Pichi, right?

>> And this and she's like just freaking out.

>> And this wouldn't have happened if I wasn't if I hadn't been driving here for as long as I have.

>> I'm pissed off now that I >> He's like bothering all these other cars, too. So, I don't know what the

cars, too. So, I don't know what the guy's deal was.

>> It's his [ __ ] man.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. I mean, I I also generally am pretty calm. Um, uh, the times I get

pretty calm. Um, uh, the times I get really mad driving or when I I get mad at myself and it's usually like I miss a turn for the third time, >> you know, uh, which is a big problem when I first came here because I was so

used to having everything measured in miles. And boy, does a mile feel a lot

miles. And boy, does a mile feel a lot longer than a kilometer when you're waiting down the highway and it's like two two kilometers away from the exit.

>> Well, and you're probably trying to like what I do is like you optimize, right?

Like you're not willing >> to just Right. You're not willing to go to the rightmost lane and just wait it out. Like, you know, you want to speed

out. Like, you know, you want to speed up and go and then you miss it because you can't cut over fast enough.

>> Exactly. You're optimizing. Yes. And

then you optimize yourself out of out of making the turn.

>> And I would know cuz I've done it so many times.

>> Um, but yeah, that's that's the only time I get really mad. But it's funny the when I'm running with my girlfriend who is she has doesn't have a license and so she's just not used to driving on the roads here or anywhere really and

she gets so much more mad at the people around me. And it's very funny how I

around me. And it's very funny how I balance that out. my naturally my personality like the more angry she gets I'm more like just it's cool it's cool let's just let him go like we get cut

off by this I remember one time we were waiting we were in um unsure in uh in in in Hube is in Hube it's in Hube right uh in Hube province anyways that uh we were on vacation and we were just waiting in

this gigantic line to get into some scenic place and this Mercedes very expensive Mercedes just absolutely comes out of nowhere and just dives in front of us in the line and my reaction was like look at that [ __ ] what are you

gonna do? You know, and she

gonna do? You know, and she >> what are you gonna do?

>> She what are you gonna do? And she was like about to get out of the car and like fight the woman in the passenger seat. Uh and I'm like that's not do

seat. Uh and I'm like that's not do that. That's not worth it. So in most

that. That's not worth it. So in most cases I I just go >> wow that's >> what are you going to do? You know cuz the the the logic I use with her is I'm not going to let them ruin my day cuz

that's what's happening right >> and it's it's not something it's not something I've never done because I've definitely done it. Um, but there I always try to make it like let's think about the rest of the day or even just

the next hour. If I let this person really piss me off, it is going to [ __ ] up my entire commute.

>> Or if I just go Yeah. If I just go like, >> there they go. Must be horrible to be them.

>> You are a better person than all. Well,

the reframing and it's also I think like well it's an excellent job of reframing but also because you speak from experience because I don't get into that situation cuz I don't drive but there

are situations where I like literally you know want to commit a felony.

>> Yes.

>> And then I'm just like well it's not going to do me any good to go to the, you know, get pulled dragged to the police station.

>> Okay, now let's all go around and talk about which felonies we want to commit.

>> But you know what I'm saying? It's like

I like you >> what you want to do like you rationally like what you want to do in that moment is actually beat the [ __ ] out of someone. You can't because then you'll

someone. You can't because then you'll go to jail and you know what happens in China, right? If you assault anyone in

China, right? If you assault anyone in China, you're going to go to the jail and then you're going to be [ __ ] >> So I just have to remind myself of that.

>> Hard to run a car YouTube channel from jail >> as I understand it. Drug operations

apparently possible. YouTube channel is much harder.

>> So yes. So, going back to that question that I was asking you, cuz I want to get some inside scoop from you, your opinions.

>> Oh, yeah. One of my favorite ones.

>> Yeah. Like, honestly, what you're trying to bring it back, >> he's invited over and we're just like, it's like, yeah, so what's your favorite

pizza?

>> Um, I I mean, I definitely have brands that I like because I think that they consistently produce deliver and produce cars that are that are that are good. I

mean like like I do like BYD a lot.

There's a reason that we purchased the BYD plus as our company car and it's because we looked at that market of compact electric SUVs and went this was true in 2020 end of 2021 or whatever when we put the order in and then is

still true today I think like that's a really great car. Uh we also have a BYD dealership like 100 meters from our office which makes it convenient. Um

>> but then there's also things they do where I'm like what the [ __ ] are you doing? What is happening? Um the the

doing? What is happening? Um the the designs like some of the interior designs on BYDs are absolutely hilarious where and I I I I have spoken with the

designers right and the BYD plus specifically the interior design is me there are three major themes that you can pick and you can find there is uh

the ocean the gym and music >> the gym >> the gym theme of design for the so for

example like the dashboard or gym or gym aesthetics or whatever. The dashboard is supposed to look like muscle fibers, >> right? There's a ripple effect to it,

>> right? There's a ripple effect to it, you know, think of like a bodybuilder's body.

>> I see that. I see that.

>> And it and it does it it Mission accomplished guys.

>> Mission accomplished.

>> It's a bit of a It is a bit It is a bit of a uh maybe, you know, uh not the best mission to give yourself. Or maybe they should have just stuck with that theme.

or the the the doors actually kind of look like the door handles kind of look like barbells.

>> A bicep.

>> Yeah, it's his little big arm. But

>> this really speaks to Eric. He would

love that car.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Push-ups he does.

>> You didn't have to tell me. I came in. I

said, Eric, that's the guy that clearly spends a ton of time in the gym. Of the

three of you, Eric seems like the one who's doing a ton more. It's more their physiques rather than my physique.

>> Incline press. He's addicted to the incline press. Um, so you know, I do

incline press. Um, so you know, I do like BYD. A lot of these um, newer

like BYD. A lot of these um, newer brands, like I I like a Leato Auto for what it offers because I think Leato Auto is really smart. Leato doesn't mess around. They're like, we're going to

around. They're like, we're going to make the best family car and they're we're not going to try to make the best family car that also claims to be the electric Porsche, right? They go, "This

car is it's not going to be fun to drive. Get over it. But it's going to

drive. Get over it. But it's going to have a big ass rear screen. It's going

to be very comfortable. It's going to have crazy >> It's very comfortable. Lee Auto makes a great family car. I appreciate that. Um

>> I I like Ziker, you know. I think Ziker, like the 001 is is pretty phenomenal value.

>> That's a really I I've only sat in it once. I was impressed sitting in it and

once. I was impressed sitting in it and I was like, damn. Because I know they're kind of in the same family with Lincoln Co. But Lincoln Co to me is just just

Co. But Lincoln Co to me is just just because you're called Lincoln Co. and

just the logo just makes me feel like you guys suck. Like I can't I can't even take you seriously.

>> Do you know the code? Do you know what the coar do you know the co stands for?

No.

>> What do you think it stands for?

>> Company.

>> False. Connected.

>> What >> do you hate them even more now?

>> Horrible.

>> Yes.

>> Isn't that just redundant?

>> The goofy are already connected.

>> Side note. Uh I I let's talk about when it comes to Chinese car names and and like I hate the fact that Chinese brands will put out a English name. So I'll

give you two examples that I really love. There's one called Wier, which is

love. There's one called Wier, which is ITO, which is a joint venture between Saras and Huawei. Yes. So, they make pretty good cars, but ITO is allegedly a

it's an acronym, right?

>> It stands for adding intelligence to auto.

>> What's the problem with that, boys?

>> The last letter.

>> Yeah. Auto. Auto. Auto. O TTO. The

German friend you have. You want to add some intelligence to your buddy Auto?

Like, it's the dumbest thing. And then

um Mona, which is a new series from Xpong, right? The Mona03, which is a new sedan.

right? The Mona03, which is a new sedan.

>> Mona.

>> M O N A, which is an acronym for what do you think?

>> Oh no.

>> Made of new AI.

>> Oh no.

>> So not only is that just patentedly false as an acronym because AI is an acronym, right? So it doesn't make any

acronym, right? So it doesn't make any sense. So it meanai. Um, it also is so

sense. So it meanai. Um, it also is so cartoonishly 2024 because it's got to have AI in it and it makes me want to throw up.

>> But even with BYD, like build your dream, like I don't want those words on the back of my car.

>> Gone. Good news. Okay.

>> They finally after hearing the screams of so many people, all the foreign versions and the new versions of their car, they just have a big BYD.

>> Nice.

>> But wait, but also domestic versions.

>> Yes.

>> Okay. Good job. the uh I had the opportunity along with some some other media. It was a Shanghai auto show last

media. It was a Shanghai auto show last year. We were invited by the head of

year. We were invited by the head of external PR so like out obviously outside of outside of China for for BYD to do an event where he just brought us over did a play at PowerPoint presentation and then spoke to us for a

bit and he asked us to he offered like he's like let me open up the floor to questions and I was like this is a bad idea. Um, and one of the first ones was,

idea. Um, and one of the first ones was, I think, I can't remember if it was me.

I don't want to take credit for this cuz it was a pretty brave question to ask, so I won't take credit. It was a someone there was like, "So, um, when are you going to get rid of Build Your Dreams?"

Like, every audience member I have wants me to ask you, when are you going to get rid of Build Your Dreams?

>> Just finally.

>> Yes. And and so, and he was like, "Oh, you guys don't like it?" And we were like one collective voice, the zeitgeist. Like, no, stop, please. It's

zeitgeist. Like, no, stop, please. It's

bad. Um, and he goes like, "Oh, okay.

Okay. Like I think he I think from the vibe that I got that seems like an internal battle that the external like international marketing team was having with BYD in China because here in the

Chinese market I don't think any that many Chinese buyers were put off by it.

>> They can't understand it.

>> They don't understand it.

>> Most most of the people.

>> Yeah. But even if they did, it's like so like that that kind of those that kind of phrase is like so >> well the sensibility is the sensibility is different because people in western

countries don't like a lot of like word the brand words on you know on your stuff especially a car >> generally. Yeah. Yeah. And so and and it

>> generally. Yeah. Yeah. And so and and it it just like when I tried to explain it to them and I translated I was like it just sounds so condescending almost so patronizing like like BYD is my second

grade teacher who's just leaning down to talk to me and be like remember build your dreams like get the [ __ ] out of here. No thank you

here. No thank you >> big yucky dump >> big yes. Uh or be your daddy was what I'll >> be your daddy.

>> Um but yes that is gone thankfully.

>> I mean how much do these things these EVs cost these days? Like a regular one?

I mean, you can get >> 3400,000 less.

>> R&B >> less, >> my friend. 100,000.

>> Yeah.

>> You can get a like an electric sedan with a decent range for like 15.

>> Okay. How much is a Tesla here in >> 250 something?

>> That's not Okay. So, if you had 300,000 R&B, what would you buy?

>> Oh, the classic question. The classic

question that I >> Is that a classic question?

>> It is. It is. It's the classic. It's

like uh though at least you've phrased it in a way that I find much more easy to answer because the more you learn about cars, the harder it is to answer the question of what's your favorite car, >> right? Because it's like what's the

>> right? Because it's like what's the situation? So, under 300,000 RMBB, I had

situation? So, under 300,000 RMBB, I had to buy Let me narrow it down even further.

>> Yeah.

>> SUV or sedan.

>> Sedan.

>> Sedan.

>> No, you're living Let No, let's not even do it. Let's say you're living in the

do it. Let's say you're living in the city. You're living in Shanghai.

city. You're living in Shanghai.

>> Wait, hold on. Yeah. Okay. But let's

back up a bit. Do you do you if you had to choose between an SUV or sedan in general as a category, which one would you choose?

>> For my lifestyle, I think I would be fine with having a sedan as a uh a male in his, you know, early 30s.

>> Um no, I'll do the Chinese style. I'll

just tell you I was born in 1991 and then make you do the math. Um the uh sedan would be fine for my right. I can

we talk about that for a second because I always I always find that so funny where and it's it's not a thing I feel like culturally to hide your age. It's

because I think it really matters to people what decade you were born in, >> you know, I think it's it's a taken as a meaningful thing maybe. And so, you know, because it's like bottling ho jing ho that's just like the decades. And so,

>> that is true though, >> right? And I so often I will be like,

>> right? And I so often I will be like, you know, well, how old are you? And

they'll be like, I was born in '92. I'm

like, don't make me do that.

>> That's so true.

>> You ruin. So true.

>> Yeah. They they rarely Sometimes they do, but they rarely just say the age.

They'll they'll say the year they were born. Even just recently, I was just I

born. Even just recently, I was just I was just in Austria for a shoot and then my clients and my and my my production team were trying to guess my age and the first question was, you know, howie, how

old are you? I'm like, how old do you think I am? They're like

>> I'm like boti.

>> I'm like 87 years old. And they're no boti. I'm like, oh, why? What? How old

boti. I'm like, oh, why? What? How old

is boti? Like I'm doing math in my head.

>> Yeah, you're making you're doing reverse math. I'm like, don't do this. just tell

math. I'm like, don't do this. just tell

me how old you are or be like h you know I don't want to say okay fine um but yeah um as a man in his early 30s we'll go back to that phrasing um electric sedan I mean or I I'll expand it because

I love wagons so I think at that price point I do think the 001 the Z001 in that category >> and personally one of the things I tell people all the time as someone who has driven essentially every fast Chinese

electric vehicle right we're talking about stuff that does 0 to 100 km/h 0 to 62 m per hour in 3 seconds.

You drive those cars for a while and then it's boring. I I if I personally bought uh an electric vehicle, I would get the single motor version with the biggest battery pack I could get in and

the longest range and I'd be perfectly fine because they're so much they're so fastful. Yeah. I mean, it's

fastful. Yeah. I mean, it's >> still ridiculously powerful. Ridiculous.

>> So, this is the one.

>> Um yes, that's the 001. The reality is and one of the issues with electric vehicles is that it's so much harder to make it interesting because once you

have driven your electric car from 0 to 100 and faster like so fast it gives you a headache a few times, it's not that interesting anymore. It's not that

interesting anymore. It's not that exciting. And another thing that a lot

exciting. And another thing that a lot of people don't think about uh is that the performance version of an electric vehicle in 75%

of driving situations is indistinguishable from the from the base version because most of the time you drive around the city with 30% throttle. So you never

really get into deep into the throttle enough or the pedal enough to actually experience the crazy power that the dual motor has. And then as I bang my watch

motor has. And then as I bang my watch on things, um, if you think about a, example, a Ford Mustang, right? Right

now, you can get one with a four-cylinder or a V8. If you're sitting in a parking, you're sitting in a stoplight, right? You know you're in a

stoplight, right? You know you're in a V8 Mustang cuz it's going go and you can feel the seat vibrating. The

whole the whole car feels different than the four-cylinder, right?

>> If you're sitting at a stoplight in the fastest EV on Earth, you have no idea cuz there's no noise. and and when you're cruising around the city at 30% throttle in the V8, you hear it, you

feel it, you know it. It's a different experience versus with the electric car, there's nothing. And so, it's a real

there's nothing. And so, it's a real problem for enthusiasts and for auto manufacturers to find a way to capture enthusiasts enthusiasm for electric cars because it's just like this does this

does not this doesn't make my heart race at all. Mhm.

at all. Mhm.

>> Do you think there's going to be a car maker that's going to artificially kind of create those like real like combustion engine feedbacks?

>> Well, my friend, >> just to give you that experience, >> I have news for you. Hyundai Hyundai

Ionic 5, which I drove at um uh Tienma, the racetrack here, one of the racetracks here in Shanghai. Um it's got like 640 horsepower, dual electric motor powertrain, da da da. But that's not the

exciting part. The exciting part is that

exciting part. The exciting part is that that car actually has a mode in which not only does it imitate the exhaust note of a ice car, specifically the the

2 liter turbo in their uh Elentra N. It

also imitates a dual clutch transmission. So you can use the paddles

transmission. So you can use the paddles to shift the car as if you were >> feel like it's vibration.

>> Uh there's no vibration. Um but you feel right. So like if for example it's very

right. So like if for example it's very realistic. So, for example, if you're

realistic. So, for example, if you're driving around at um at, you know, 50 km/h, >> make the noise. Make the noise.

>> Oh, well, I'll I'll I'll know I will.

Ready? Because you're driving around at 50 km/h and then you and the engine's, you know, going uh now I'm trying to think about that. You

got me got me really deep in my head here about how to how to imitate this noise properly. Cuz what I'm trying to

noise properly. Cuz what I'm trying to say is that when you if you're downshift or sorry, let's say you're driving along at 50 km and the engine's like and then you upshift from like third to fifth, it

goes because it's bogging down like an actual internal combustion engine would. The

RPMs would drop so low and then you and you hit the thrott with the throttle.

>> It would it would it would it would just it would accelerate much more slowly. So

it it imitates not just like every aspect of it essentially. Oh, not just the sound. So, the sound comes from

the sound. So, the sound comes from what?

>> Speakers.

>> Yes.

>> Hyundai.

>> Hyundai. Hyundai Ionic 5N. Yes.

>> Hyundai is Korean, right?

>> They and they make apart from the Chinese cars, I think, like the best electric vehicles.

>> Well, I know that the Western reviews of the Ionic 5 are just great.

>> Yeah, they love it. Yeah. And I

>> This This Seeker looks amazing on the inside.

>> You're still on this?

>> Eric's going to Eric's going to pull up in the car next time.

>> I'll send this to I'll send this to the secret.

>> He had me at the [ __ ] intelligent cockpit. Hook us up.

cockpit. Hook us up.

>> No, Zeer is nice. I remember sitting once in a DD. It was a Zeer that came to pick me up and I was like, damn, >> what [ __ ] DD do you use? You're

getting picked up by Is it 001?

>> 01.

>> This is 300 grand 28 >> 289. Yeah.

>> 289. Yeah.

>> Damn.

>> Probably you can get a little bit of a rebate maybe.

>> But if you were to buy a car here, uh, do you think you would be able to get like a special deal just because of who you are, what you do?

>> I mean, yeah. I mean, I certainly think that there would be companies that would want to encourage me to buy their carcass, do reviews, of course.

>> Yeah. Because they would want me to make content about it. And to be honest with you, that would be a factor in a car that I would choose. I mean, this is a thing that no normal person would consider, right? Um, is that,

consider, right? Um, is that, >> you know, I have to consider if I wanted to, how could I better monetize my decision to buy this car? So, that might make me choose a car that is a little more controversial or something like

that. like I might be more enthusiastic

that. like I might be more enthusiastic about buying the the Xiaomi SU7, the SU7 because I knew that I could make multiple videos about it and make a little bit of money back off of it. Um,

versus, you know, getting a 001.

>> Well, I want to I want to ask you something. I know you don't have a

something. I know you don't have a crystal ball, but if you were to guess in 10 years from now, what are the five Chinese EV brands that

are still around? Ooh.

>> Um I I will So what I'm going to I I'll think the the stateowned automakers are are all safe. I mean I just don't think

that they're on those Chongan um also uh SIC BIC. These are essentially they're

SIC BIC. These are essentially they're essentially just employment. Their value

is to this to the government is to be able to employ people. And so, you know, that's why it's difficult for a private company like General Motors to have a to have a relationship with an SIC because

they have a joint venture brand and they're looking at sales and they're not selling cars, but they're still manufacturing cars at a high rate. And

maybe General Motors uh or another private company might go to this enterprise and say, "Hey, uh, we need to close the factories. we need to stop production for at least a week in order

to catch up because we've got, you know, 500 days of supply on our dealer lots.

And they the brand says, "We completely agree." The standard company says, "We

agree." The standard company says, "We completely agree with you. We should do that, you know, financially." Then they get a call from the mayor of the city they're in, and that mayor says, "Oh, yeah, no, you can't do that because we need to meet the numbers for GDP." And

the GDP doesn't get if you sell the car, it just means matters that you make the car. And so these are the factors that

car. And so these are the factors that are going to get in the way of these joint venture relationships in this specific case, but also in the way of actually consolidating these these

state-owned companies. So if I focus

state-owned companies. So if I focus more on the what they call sin shirly, the the new the new brands, right? Um

your Lee Autos, your Neos, your X punks, I'll put BYD in there, even though they're not really new, you know, they've been around for a while. I mean

BYD for sure. Uh Lee Auto, I think. Um

though they have to manage their transition to pure electric models, >> but they're one of the top sellers across the country though, aren't they?

>> In their category. Absolutely. Yeah,

they're doing great. But they they were targeting 800,000 units this year, which would have put them over uh they call BBA, right? Beamer, Benz, and Audi, right?

right? Beamer, Benz, and Audi, right?

All right. It would have put them over the Germans in in terms of annual sales because the launch of the Le Automega, a car that they claimed was going to sell 2 thou, sorry, 10,000 units a month,

which would make it the bestselling car over 500,000 RMBB, which previously was the BMW, the locally built X5. Um, that

was their claim. Now, they have not done that.

>> The coffin.

>> The coffin. There you go. So, the it it got into the zeitgeist that the Leo Omega looks like a coffin. I don't

understand that at all. I don't get it.

But in China, obviously in most places generally association with death, not a good thing. So that became a big meme

good thing. So that became a big meme online and that I think killed a lot of sales. So Lee Auto Xpung and Neo,

sales. So Lee Auto Xpung and Neo, >> that's weird, right?

>> Neo has uh and I just I love the Neo Bros on Twitter. I'm not even on Twitter very much. I mostly get screenshots from

very much. I mostly get screenshots from my friends that are on Twitter who have to interact with these people and it's the funniest [ __ ] ever because they just it's like Tesla it's like Tesla people, right? Tesla stands and stuff. They they

right? Tesla stands and stuff. They they

just have no concept of what Chinese car market what's actually happening in the Chinese car market and where Neo stands in the Chinese car market. So they'll

like take a graph in Chinese and just kind of translate it however they see fit, you know, to make it sound like Neo is doing great. Um or or they'll go to anytime you review a car that's not a Neo, they're like, "You're clearly

taking money because you says that you say this car is good." But then you review a Neo and you say it's good, they're like, "You're my favorite reviewer." Um who are these people?

reviewer." Um who are these people?

>> So like Neo evangelists, right?

>> But why would you get so caught up in one particular >> Are they paid by Neo?

>> No, because they've invested in NEO.

>> Yeah. Yeah. The the stock >> the stock is so low right now that they cannot back out. It's like you cannot you lost so much money, you cannot back out. So you can understand the angst,

out. So you can understand the angst, you know, when when when you point out >> it's like crypto bros who like are really into crypto. They want to if you say anything negative about crypto >> fud. Don't don't be fudding me, bro.

>> fud. Don't don't be fudding me, bro.

>> Is that what they say?

>> Fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

>> FUD. So one of the Neo saving graces is they do have the battery swapping systems which are going to which have gotten investment from big brands. I

like >> Well, now they're collaborating with other automakers.

>> Yeah. Chongan and and Jely, I believe are the two. Gile for sure. I think the other one is Chong. Yep. they have

bought into the battery swapping tech and so they want to offer it through their cars. Um you know and and there's

their cars. Um you know and and there's a hour and a half long debate to be had about whether battery swapping is a viable solution to this uh considering the speeds that charging are getting up

to. Um but we don't have to have that

to. Um but we don't have to have that now. Um so I'm not I'm not positive

now. Um so I'm not I'm not positive about NEO but there's a there's a much more solid chance that they're they have enough value built in that somebody will want them you know to keep them going.

And then Xbunk already got buy in from Volkswagen. So I think they're probably

Volkswagen. So I think they're probably a pretty safe bet. Though I don't know how long Volkswagen's going to last in China. Volkswagen, General Motors. Like

China. Volkswagen, General Motors. Like

that's the funny thing to think about is not at the same time as you think about which Chinese brands are going to be around in 5 years. Which foreign brands are going to be around to sell in China in 5 years? Are the Koreans? Probably

not. Are so I mean like >> they're slowly just getting like backing out, right? And almost it seems like

out, right? And almost it seems like they're going to get right. They get

bought by the Chinese. Uh yeah, maybe. I

mean, they're they're you know, it would be harder for them to buy out somebody that big because they're still selling so well in other places. But like

>> I just think like there's a speaking as an American, this brings me no joy.

There's a very solid chance that General Motors is essentially going to be gone from China or a non or like an inconsequential player in the Chinese market within the next 5 years. And the

people who with whom I speak to in General Motors, they know that, you know, they're for years these brands just lived under a rock and were like they rad in cash from the Chinese

market. Everyone everyone complains

market. Everyone everyone complains about, oh well, you know, they had to be in these joint ventures and this technology transfer and stuff. that

technology that they got transferred over maybe on the manufacturing side and that kind of knowhow helped the Chinese manufacturers but the tech that the Chinese manufacturers are using now to beat them is not the tech that they use

to make all those sales, right? And so

you have uh these people were just raking in cash these brands and and just let the Chinese manufacturers sprint past them. They just sat there and lived

past them. They just sat there and lived in denial for years.

>> They got fat and lazy, right?

>> They got fat and lazy, of course. And so

they're they're absolutely paying the price for that. And you're seeing it in the incredible sales drops in not just brands like General Motors and more mainstream brands like Chevy and stuff like that. Chevy's always been [ __ ] in

like that. Chevy's always been [ __ ] in China, but um >> Ford is going down.

>> Ford Ford's Ford peaked in 2018 and went downhill from there. You know, it's also uh premium manufacturers, your your BBA, your Beamer uh Beamer Benbs and Audi.

And then also uh Porsche, you know, if Porsche's sales are down like 30% this year. And obviously one factor is the

year. And obviously one factor is the economy. People aren't buying cars right

economy. People aren't buying cars right now, especially expensive vehicles. Um

but there is a nonzero a non-zero factor in that is the fact that people are buying other brands. Uh and so, you know, Porsche is the golden goose for

Volkswagen in in China. And if Porsche goes down, right, VW is absolutely screwed. Well, VW sales are down as

screwed. Well, VW sales are down as well, like in a major way.

>> VW's the VW brand itself, not Volkswagen Group, but VW brand itself was outsold by BYD as >> um and so >> which is crazy compared considering if

you go back like 10 20 years like VW was sitting on top like >> they were the first they were the first ones to come into China.

>> The Santana >> Yes. Right.

>> Yes. Right.

>> Sana all the taxis were exactly >> absolutely the pat took over.

>> Yes. Eric has kicked down many of a door of a patai classic.

>> Um, okay. No, this has been wonderful, but I want to save time in the conversation with you, Ethan, to talk a little bit more maybe about your background cuz we have some shared uh shared commonalities in terms of maybe

where we grew up. You know, one thing I always like to ask our guests who um are foreigners here is, you know, why why China? Why did you come here? Why are

China? Why did you come here? Why are

you here? Why do you remain here? What's

What's the deal with that?

>> Oh, >> what's the deal with that?

>> What's the deal with what is wrong with you?

>> Yeah. What's the deal with that?

>> You sound like everyone from my hometown. Um, so, uh,

hometown. Um, so, uh, >> where are you from, by the way?

>> Burlington, North Carolina. Btown, baby.

>> Yes. Not not home of Burlington Coat Factory, as so many people like to ask me back in the States. Like,

>> that's a Jersey thing, actually.

>> I thought it was Vermont. Is it? So,

what part of like northeast southwest of North Carolina?

>> So, center. center.

>> Pretty much the center.

>> How far from >> which line? He wants to know which line you got off >> Chapel Hill. It's line.

>> How far from Chapel Hill?

>> Uh, it's actually about 45 minutes from Chapel Hill, which is where I did my undergrad. You know, it's funny. I

undergrad. You know, it's funny. I

unsurprisingly I've been asked that quite a lot by foreigners, by by Chinese people, you know. And I don't know that I've ever come up with a fantastic answer to it. To start with, it was just

one of those things where I mean, it was the language that got me into it. Uh,

>> you study Chinese, didn't you?

>> Yeah. Um, it's funny. I So, originally I studied I studied Spanish in high school, right, for like two years and I didn't speak a lick of Spanish. And the

reason wasn't because Spanish was incredibly hard to learn. It's because I wasn't that interested in it. And yet,

when I started studying Chinese in the first semester, sophomore year of university, I was like, "All right, this I can do. This is interesting." I I was suddenly found myself willing to sit in front of the TV for three hours doing

flashcards. And I was walking down the

flashcards. And I was walking down the street of this is a habit I still have to this day. Walking down the street practicing my Chinese pronunciation.

>> Chinese people like [Laughter] >> practicing my tones, right? And so I still do that today. And I remember getting like caught multiple times on

car on on UNCC Chapel Hills campus like being like ma ma ma ma like and and people just being like what the [ __ ] wrong? So what's wrong with this dude?

wrong? So what's wrong with this dude?

So um >> I just found that was my my in and I was I the reason I got interested in the language in the first place because I was a bit just interested in the in in in the culture and then the economics

and the political system. I mean like when I was in um I remember specifically in my first year of high school I I was reading a book called the China fantasy um which the the author of which it was

an interesting book. It was basically about the It was the kind of the idea.

This was after China had been let into the um um WTO.

>> WTO. Thank you, sir. And essentially the fantasy that China was going to reform itself because it was now part of the WTO and change the way that it did things. And this collective idea

things. And this collective idea internationally that all of a sudden China was just going to become a capitalist like freedom loving haven of you know democracy or whatever is just kind of ridiculous. That was the author's essential. Do you remember the

author's essential. Do you remember the author's name?

>> Some John something. Either way, it's very easy to go. interesting choice as a 13 14year-old.

>> Well, yeah. And that was >> I thought it was like the China fantasy.

>> Well, the the literally on that note, my my it was >> there's no pictures inside.

>> It was like freshman. It was some class I had to take for freshman year. And the

teacher was this like wrestler guy who in retrospect was maybe he's now 10. He

was at the time 10 years younger than I am now. So, not the most mature person.

am now. So, not the most mature person.

When he was from across the room was like, "Robertson, what are you reading?"

And I was like, "The China fantasy." and

he goes the vagina fantasy.

But yeah, I mean like I was the kid when when I went to when my mom went to get her haircut, right? I was at the hair salon and there's a bunch of magazines.

If there were no car magazines, I'm going to read National Geographic or The Economist.

>> And I'm not saying this to make it sound as like if I was some sort of like a beautiful child soant, you know, but it was just the kind of stuff that I was interested in. And so when you think

interested in. And so when you think about when you get interested in economics and international relations and stuff, you have to have to learn about China. I mean, there's just no way

about China. I mean, there's just no way around it. And so, that got me into that

around it. And so, that got me into that as as a topic. And so, when I went to university, my my father when he found out that I was like reading these books about China and stuff was like, "You should learn Chinese."

>> Cuz he obviously was just like, he just saw money signs, >> right? Just very practical dad. He said,

>> right? Just very practical dad. He said,

"You got to have a skill that most people don't have in order to separate yourself." And a lot of people speak

yourself." And a lot of people speak Spanish. Uh I certainly couldn't. Uh,

Spanish. Uh I certainly couldn't. Uh,

and so it was just, you know, it was just luck that when I got into it again, I I realized I had a real passion for it. And my first time in China was in

it. And my first time in China was in 2013. I did a six-month um, exchange

2013. I did a six-month um, exchange program, if you want to call it that, was four months in Beijing and two months in Shanghai. The four months in Beijing was a language program. Do you

know um, a CCT?

>> Mhm.

>> Yeah. So, I was with CCT, shout out. And

it was a one of the programs we had a language pledge. So, it was four months

language pledge. So, it was four months in Beijing where I had a language pledge. I got caught speaking English

pledge. I got caught speaking English three times. Three times a three- strike

three times. Three times a three- strike policy. If you get caught, you get

policy. If you get caught, you get kicked out. And I was there um thanks to

kicked out. And I was there um thanks to the large ass of a wonderful couple, the Bonaparts from New York City, uh who paid for this fellowship. And so I did not want to waste their money. And I

ended up getting through the program without getting I'm not going to say I didn't speak English, but I didn't get caught speaking English. Um and it really helped my Chinese unsurprisingly.

>> Of course, you got forced.

>> Yeah. Basically, uh it's a sink or swim thing. And luckily, I swam. And then I

thing. And luckily, I swam. And then I went back and I said, I knew I know I really want to live in China. I want to go back to China, but I don't want to be an English teacher. I have no problems with teachers. My sister is a teacher,

with teachers. My sister is a teacher, but that's the reason that I don't want to be a teacher because I think if you're going to be a teacher, you should be a good teacher. You should want to be a teacher, and you shouldn't just be doing it to make a little bit of money and have a fun year,

>> you know. Um, and I've further solidified that opinion because of the number of times, and stop me, you've heard this one. You've met someone who came to China. I'm just gonna stay in China for a year and teach English. And

then they realize, well, let me check my watch. It's been 10 years and I now am a

watch. It's been 10 years and I now am a early 30s person who has no work experience in things that I want to do.

And I can't I'm not certified to actually teach in the country I'm from.

So, what am I going to do?

>> Um, and this is this is I mean, I feel bad for that a person in that situation, but it's not a situation I wanted to find myself in.

>> So, I came to do a masters. So, I lived in Wuhan for 4 years from 2014 to 2018.

got out right in time. Uh,

>> wow.

>> Yeah.

>> Timed that.

>> And then came to Shanghai to work. Um,

>> you were stud, you say you got your masters in marketing. Is that what >> undergrad was? Was was marketing and PR and my masters was in international relations.

>> But the purpose of that really was just for the Chinese language. It was taught in Chinese.

>> And so, um, that was what really pushed me. And then having Chinese roommates

me. And then having Chinese roommates and stuff, that was I chose Wuhan because it was not Beijing or Shanghai.

And I knew that if I came to Beijing or Shanghai, I could very easily gather a community of other foreigners around me.

I would not improve my Chinese nearly as much. And so I'm very grateful that I

much. And so I'm very grateful that I was able to to be in Wuhan. By the time the four years was up, I was like, well, let's go to Shanghai.

>> You know, Wuhan is a great place to study. That's why there's like 500

study. That's why there's like 500 universities there. But when I when it

universities there. But when I when it came time for me to find a job and work, I was like, I'm going to go to Shanghai.

To this day, I don't know in terms of why I've stayed. Perhaps it's a sunk cost fallacy. Um, and that I put so much

cost fallacy. Um, and that I put so much time and effort into into learning uh, Chinese at this point and learning the culture and the community that um, even

if I wasn't doing my dream job at this point, I probably would still stay. Now,

it's a combination of like there's this thing I've spent so much time learning and almost said the word perfecting, which is a laughable description of my Chinese. Um, but this thing I've

Chinese. Um, but this thing I've learned, but I'm also really I really am doing what I always dreamed of doing.

Like I never thought dreamed is probably not accurate because I never even dreamed that I would be able to get paid to drive a different car every week to travel around China and in this point the globe to drive different cars

>> um and have people like want to see it, >> you know?

>> Yeah. No, that's that's awesome.

>> Honestly, how many really legit auto reviewers are there out in the world?

Like, you know, there's only a handful, honestly. And especially if you're in

honestly. And especially if you're in China and you're an English speak speaking one, I would say you're in the forefront. And

forefront. And >> oh yeah, >> that's that's very unique.

>> I think maybe something I don't know like I I don't like maybe something you don't even get enough credit for is the fact that you're here. Like if you're reviewing EVs, I mean this you're you're

here. You're ground zero. Like this is

here. You're ground zero. Like this is where you have to be if you really want to get into the EV topic. And I don't know, just maybe just that's that's a

really cool position to be in. Yeah, I I think if you look at the number of reviewers that are doing what I'm doing here in China, I mean there is a huge

and successful and talented pool of of of Chinese media of course. Um but in terms of being a a foreigner basically or an English speaker, I'll even say

who's who's reporting on Chinese cars here is like an extremely small community.

>> Yeah. Or just like western facing, you know, like in terms of like the audience you're speaking to a lot of times as well. M um you know coming from America

well. M um you know coming from America given the politics these days especially how it's heating up in the in the states

do you find it harder to stay or do you do you get any uh do you get any push back from let's say your family friends or whoever back home that you're here at all

>> on on when it comes to it gets easier to stay honestly uh in terms of the politics back in the states >> how so >> because I don't want to interact with [Laughter] you know, like that I knew going into

this year the one of the things I looked forward to the least was the questions that I would knew I would get where people be like, "So, the election and I'm just like, oh god, can I crawl in a hole? Can I not have to try and answer

hole? Can I not have to try and answer this?" And that's why I'm actually very

this?" And that's why I'm actually very careful about who I tell. I have a I have a masters in international relations because when you tell people that, they're like, "Oh, you have the answer.

>> You have the answer."

>> So, you're the guy I've been looking for that can tell me. Um, I had a great experience. I had I I had a wonderful

experience. I had I I had a wonderful time in in Riad, I should say. I I the people there were very nice. I obviously

was I was a little intimidated because of the the stark differences in culture when going there, but it was great. The

food was delicious. I recommend people check it out. On the plane over there, I talked to a super nice guy who was actually from Lebanon. And it was so funny. I was like, "Okay, you know, this

funny. I was like, "Okay, you know, this guy's pretty nice. This will be interesting conversation, you know, maybe throughout the 10-hour flight."

His second question was, "So, Israel, Palestine, shut up." He was like, "Yeah, what do you think of that?" And I was like "Oh Jesus." And I'm like, "I don't I don't

Jesus." And I'm like, "I don't I don't know. I'm pretty sure from based on the

know. I'm pretty sure from based on the little that I know about you, you're probably not pro-Israel, this person, and what's happening, but I just just like, thank you for really throwing the fastest, hardest curveball you could at

me." Um, in the second question.

me." Um, in the second question.

>> So, what did you do? Did you just not answer? Did you answer? I was I tried to

answer? Did you answer? I was I tried to do that thing where I mean cuz I didn't know what answer he wanted.

>> Did we just take off?

>> I just I saw was like a team.

>> What's what's I I think I think the first thing I said was like well you know I haven't really informed myself about it enough to really have a to have a to have I think a valid opinion about it or whatever.

And he's like pushing me. He's like but don't you think the America should like stop selling missiles to Israel? And I'm

like admittedly yeah I do wish. and he

like slowly peeled out of me that I was pro Palestine and like it was it was very uh it was just very >> like an interrogation.

>> It it was Yeah. Um, and then there was the funny there was the only other experience I had of that on the on the trip was at one point was again I was there when Trump got shot at.

>> And so I'll say he got shot. He got

nicked. The I some guy again occasionally I'm abroad. I look like I do. People are which is your absolute

do. People are which is your absolute cookie cutter white man from America. Um

people are always just like where are you from? But I'm like oh I'm from I'm

you from? But I'm like oh I'm from I'm from the US. Like oh I'm not going to do an accent. I bailed hard on that. I did

an accent. I bailed hard on that. I did

one word and I was like, "What am I doing?" Um, so this guy this guy was

doing?" Um, so this guy this guy was like, >> "You almost got went down a slippery slope. Our show's all about accents."

slope. Our show's all about accents."

>> I was I was driving straight over the cliff and then I turned and I'm glad I did. So anyways, this guy is asking me,

did. So anyways, this guy is asking me, he's like, "Where are you from?" And I said, "I'm from the United States." And

he goes, "Oh, you know, uh, I I heard about the Trump Trump and stuff like that." And goes, "I like Trump." And

that." And goes, "I like Trump." And

like I'm like what am I I'm trying to get to the I'm trying to get to the the the the breakfast at the hotel. Like I'm

tired. So I'm just like I don't but good for you. And I just kept walking. You

for you. And I just kept walking. You

know, being an American abroad, one of the things I like to try and acknowledge about, we talk about like people don't get to do their dream jobs.

Like I'm I'm uniquely privileged in many ways. Just looking like I do and being

ways. Just looking like I do and being in China is a privilege in in unto itself, right? where I I I I I jokingly

itself, right? where I I I I I jokingly talk about the only white privilege that I actively use because I because I want to acknowledge the passive privilege that I have is that I will use this face

to get into whatever parking garage I want to to see whatever cars I want to or any hotel or whatever when I roll into the front door. Even if I'm dressed like I am in my Hawaiian shirts, they just go like probably belongs here, you

know? Or like I'm I use this when I

know? Or like I'm I use this when I before I did did my job. I when I worked in marketing, I didn't have a lot to do to be honest. And so I would go for like

45 minute to one hour lunch walks and I was in uh Gubet here in Shanghai and there's a ton of really high-end apartment complexes there. And so I must have scoped out every corner of every

parking garage under every apartment complex and I found some gold in there.

And if I had not looked like I do and entered one, I wouldn't have gotten into those places. Two, if I'd been caught in

those places. Two, if I'd been caught in there, it would have probably been a much different situation. Um but uh yeah like and when it comes to being able to do my dream job, one of the reasons I

was able to even be in this position is because you know yes I did get lucky enough to get that fellowship but my parents could afford to buy the plane tickets for me to get there could afford

to could afford to support me when I was there. You know the things that allow me

there. You know the things that allow me to be where I am and to have my dream job. Yes, I did work really really hard

job. Yes, I did work really really hard to study Chinese. And yes, I do live on the other side of the world from my my entire family. Most of my family lives

entire family. Most of my family lives within an hour each other hour of each other in North Carolina. I'm the only one out of the six people in my my my close family that >> the black sheep of the family >> basically. Um

>> basically. Um >> yellow sheep.

>> Yeah, >> that's one I will not touch. So, uh,

the, um, you know, that's that's something I like to I like to acknowledge when talking about these things because it is a combination of, yeah, I did work hard, but yeah, it doesn't really matter if you work really hard if you just can't get the plane

ticket.

>> Yeah. No, like very true that, right?

And just like imagine if the skin the color of your skin like imagine you're in the US and you have a different skin color and I'll leave it at that and you're walking around in the parking

garage with high-end cars. Yeah.

>> With a different skin color.

>> It's going to be a different experience.

>> It's going to be a very different experience.

>> Quite the different experience.

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Um

>> so let's end on that high note. Any

Larry guys, thanks for listening.

Well, that about sums it up right there.

>> We're going to cut that together with your uh release.

>> We're going to splice that into the very beginning.

>> Put it together.

>> Very beginning. The very beginning.

You're like in a parking garage.

>> Yes.

>> But Ethan, um it was wonderful getting to know you a little bit, talking to you today. I find your videos very

today. I find your videos very entertaining. I know how he's been a big

entertaining. I know how he's been a big fan of yours. Um thanks, man. Thanks for

coming here and taking the time.

>> Thank you. Thank you for acknowledging the vetting process is basically one of the three hosts goes, "This guy's pretty good.

that that's how we do that's how all our guests that's how we get all our guests >> we all we all do our own little >> at least one of us is a fan of the guest we have on you know >> well I'll take this opportunity to say

that I was contacted by Howie and you know he's like oh we got this podcast we got 150 subscribers and I'm like all right and then I checked it out I am a fan of you guys now >> oh nice >> I I do love this podcast I love the

perspectives that you guys bring the guests that you have because it's a combination of as someone who lives in China it's uniquely interesting to me but even as someone if someone didn't live in China. You guys talk about topics that are still really, really

cool. And I also want to acknowledge for

cool. And I also want to acknowledge for those of you who don't watch the video version of this podcast, this studio is banging.

>> Nice.

>> I don't know. I don't know who put this together, but this thing is very, very nice.

>> It's very man caveish.

>> Yes. Yes. There

>> your shirt fits right in. It's like

pattern. I was like, "What's behind you right there?"

right there?" >> True. True. You know, I had to uh Oh,

>> True. True. You know, I had to uh Oh, the shirts. Well, we were wrapping up so

the shirts. Well, we were wrapping up so I wouldn't get into the long thing about the shirts, but >> you have this thing with Hawaiian shirts. Yes. I So, so if you go even

shirts. Yes. I So, so if you go even further back in my videos, I used to wear a fanny pack.

>> Oh, yeah. A fanny pack. Yeah.

>> Right. And basically

a couple years in, my two partners, their background in car media is actually with German media. And so they have a lot of contacts in Germany, which is why our videos at least like two two

a month get put on uh they're on TV in German in Germany and Germanspeaking parts of Switzerland and Austria. Um,

and so those guys liked our content because we make very high quality content. All credit should go to I

content. All credit should go to I should take the opportunity to say my my my two co-founders so to speak. Um, the

videographer is his guy named Seman or Xang and then the other guy who writes the helps me write my Chinese content is Justin Chyun.

They are what make me allow me to make such high quality content. And the

Germans said, "We like you guys lives.

We like what you do. We like the, you know, the video shooting and all this stuff, but he can't wear the fanny pack.

>> Their one their one thing red line.

>> Yeah. The one red line for for the Germans was that uh it was unbecoming of a professional I don't know professional car reviewer to wear to look like a German tourist. Ironically,

German tourist. Ironically, >> um tourist.

>> My small Yes, sure. My small rebellion against that was start out was the floral shirts was the quote Hawaiian shirts and then at some point I realized like I'm actually really digging this.

But yeah, I will I will continue to rock these probably way too long. Probably

well into my >> Nothing wrong with that, man. These age

like fine wine.

>> Not when I sweat into them.

>> Um where where can people find you? Um

like on your social media, like besides your YouTube channel.

>> So yeah, YouTube is Wheels. Um and then on Instagram, we're on Instagram, we're on Tik Tok, we're on Facebook if for any reason you want to tell your grandmother about it. Um

about it. Um >> what about Chinese media?

>> Chinese media. So uh Chinese media were cholunga. So the originally the name

cholunga. So the originally the name first was cholonga in in Chinese and the translation is technically the most accurate translation will be wheels boy.

>> Wheel. Yeah. His wheels boy or wheel bro. Yeah. Some people still insist on

bro. Yeah. Some people still insist on telling me you know your name is translated wrong. And I say do you know

translated wrong. And I say do you know how grateful I am that my partners before I actually joined you know cuz they're the guys that really founded the brand and then we built the channel together.

>> I'm so grateful it's not wheels bro. I'm

Oh. Oh, that's such the vibes are bad.

>> So, uh, on the Western platforms, just look for Wheels. On the Chinese platforms, right?

>> Correct.

>> Yeah.

>> Cool.

>> All right, man. Yo, thanks again so much for being on the show. This was

wonderful. Let's do this again sometime.

There's so many more topics we can get into.

>> Anytime. Anytime. I had

>> We should go on one of his videos and Howie, >> bring Howie bring celebrity guest. Yeah,

he always try Howie always tries to act like the car expert here when you're not around. Okay,

around. Okay, >> this guy.

>> And if you're struggling to kind of, you know, figure out which flavor of vanilla, bring Howie along.

>> There you go.

>> Happy. I've got his WeChat chat now, so I'm going to ask.

>> Bring sand to the beach right there.

>> Cheers. Cheers, Ethan.

>> Gentlemen, thank you.

>> All right, that was Ethan. I'm Justin.

I'm Sand. and I'm in the market for a new EV.

>> All right, be good. Be well.

>> Peace.

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